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If the Governor Does It, That Means It Is Not Illegal
Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich, a Democrat, is sitting shiva at Chicago FBI headquarters with his chief of staff, charged with committing all sorts of wonderful crimes since, literally, the minute he took office. He even tried to make some scratch off the replacement for Barack Obama's Senate seat. From the criminal complaint, all emphasis mine:
Throughout the intercepted conversations, Blagojevich also allegedly spent significant time weighing the option of appointing himself to the open Senate seat and expressed a variety of reasons for doing so, including: frustration at being “stuck” as governor; a belief that he will be able to obtain greater resources if he is indicted as a sitting Senator as opposed to a sitting governor; a desire to remake his image in consideration of a possible run for President in 2016; avoiding impeachment by the Illinois legislature; making corporate contacts that would be of value to him after leaving public office; facilitating his wife’s employment as a lobbyist; and generating speaking fees should he decide to leave public office.
In the earliest intercepted conversation about the Senate seat described in the affidavit, Blagojevich told Deputy Governor A on November 3 that if he is not going to get anything of value for the open seat, then he will take it for himself: “if . . . they’re not going to offer anything of any value, then I might just take it.” Later that day, speaking to Advisor A, Blagojevich said: “I’m going to keep this Senate option for me a real possibility, you know, and therefore I can drive a hard bargain.” He added later that the seat “is a [expletive] valuable thing, you just don’t give it away for nothing.”
Over the next couple of days – Election Day and the day after – Blagojevich was captured discussing with Deputy Governor A whether he could obtain a cabinet position, such as Secretary of Health and Human Services or the Department of Energy or various ambassadorships. In a conversation with Harris on November 4, Blagojevich analogized his situation to that of a sports agent shopping a potential free agent to the highest bidder. The day after the election, Harris allegedly suggested to Blagojevich that the President-elect could make him the head of a private foundation.
Between Blagojevich, Ted Stevens, and Wiliam Jefferson, this has been a pretty bad year for criminals in public office.
some dude|12.9.08 @ 11:36AM|#
Best part of the complaint:
ROD BLAGOJEVICH said that the consultants (Advisor B and another
consultant are believed to be on the call at that time) are telling
him that he has to "suck it up" for two years and do nothing and
give this "motherfucker [the President-elect] his senator. Fuck
him. For nothing? Fuck him."
Brian E|12.9.08 @ 11:36AM|#
Just don't spend any time thinking about the possibility that Saint Obama could have known about this - or even engaged in a little pay-to-play himself. No sir, our Chicago politicians are pristine!
Jozef|12.9.08 @ 11:37AM|#
Between Blagojevich, Ted Stevens, and Wiliam Jefferson, this
has been a pretty bad year for criminals in public
office.
One senator out of 100, one governor out of 50 and one Congressman
out of 440. That means that only 1%, 2% and 0.2%, respectively, of
criminals got ousted. I consider that to be still pretty good odds
for criminals in the government; definitely better than for the
average person carrying a joint in his pocket.
|12.9.08 @ 11:38AM|#
Not that I necessarily think it's a bad thing as a matter of policy (in fact I'd love to see it be reciprocated), but what exactly is the Constitutional basis for making bribery of state officials a Federal offense?
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 11:41AM|#
What pisses me off about this is that Blago -- a self-declared
Cubs fan -- appears to be responsible for the Tribune Co.'s sale of
the team dragging out for so long. Originally they wanted to sell
Wrigley Field to the state sports commission, so as to lower the
price of the team, and he apparently blocked that because he wanted
the Chicago Tribune to fire some writers who had been critical of
him.
Seriously, if half the stuff that's alleged by the feds is true, he
makes George Ryan look like a saint.
|12.9.08 @ 11:42AM|#
This is the one area where I actually am happy to see the FBI doing its job. If they would just pull all resources from investigating drugs, gambling, prostitution, etc. and focus it on corrupt politicians, we would all be better off.
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 11:43AM|#
Andrew Craig,
The Constitution requires the federal govt to guarantee each state
a republican form of government. Corruption interferes with that,
so they have the authority to prosecute it.
|12.9.08 @ 11:44AM|#
"Between Blagojevich, Ted Stevens, and Wiliam Jefferson, this
has been a pretty bad year for criminals in public office."
And between Blagojevich and George Ryan, Illinois has an awesome
streak of criminal governors going. (And right before Ryan, several
members of Jim Edgar's administration were convicted on
bribery/political corruption charges, although he wasn't; if only
they got him, Illinois would be three for three!)
highnumber|12.9.08 @ 11:46AM|#
Brian E,
If you read the criminal complaint, Obama & Co look pretty
good. Their offer to Blago was Michael Corleone's offer to the
Nevada senator: nothing.
EJM|12.9.08 @ 11:46AM|#
The full Google News story cluster is
here.
P.S.: Weigel's posting again; I wonder what LoneWacko will do
now.
|12.9.08 @ 11:47AM|#
Between Blagojevich, Ted Stevens, and Wiliam Jefferson, this
has been a pretty bad year for criminals in public
office
Bad year? It's been a great year. More of them than usual
got caught. Seeing as they are all corrupt, the more the FBI can
get the better.
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 11:47AM|#
I wonder what effect this will have on Dick Durbin's campaign to get Bush to pardon George Ryan, the ex-governor who's currently rotting in prison on corruption charges for selling drivers licenses and such. It definitely makes Ryan look better!
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 11:50AM|#
Sparky, I for one am suspicious of anyone who voluntarily wants to live in Springfield for many years. No one lives there unless they were born there and haven't had an opportunity to leave, or are getting something in return.
|12.9.08 @ 11:51AM|#
Brian E,
In a conversation with Harris on November 11, the charges
state, Blagojevich said he knew that the President-elect wanted
Senate Candidate 1 for the open seat but "they're not willing to
give me anything except appreciation. [Expletive] them."
Horse's mouth.
So it's sort of like what you said, except exactly the
opposite.
|12.9.08 @ 11:52AM|#
cunnivore-
Ah, ok. I was just trying to figure out what power grant this would
fall under, and couldn't come up with anything. I didn't even think
of the guarantee clause.
|12.9.08 @ 11:55AM|#
At least he's honest about his corruption.
Stuff like this is why I can't completely oppose the death penalty;
I would sincerely like to see them fry this fucker, and put his
singed, moldering carcass on display at the Illinois State Capitol,
as an inspiration to the rest of the "public servants".
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 11:56AM|#
joe,
The president of the United States offering "appreciation" for
appointing the senator he wants is an entirely different thing from
that little old lady offering "appreciation" if you carry her
groceries to her car.
For someone who hears whistle words coming out of Republican mouths
pretty much nonstop, you sure have trouble reading between the
lines when it's your copartisans doing the whistling.
|12.9.08 @ 11:56AM|#
This is good news for (us) Illinois gun nuts. One less
gun-control guy in a position of power. I'm much happier with the
position he is in at the moment. So, I bet, is Michael
Madigan.
Party at my house. See ya'll there.
robc|12.9.08 @ 11:57AM|#
cunnivore,
All politicians are corrupt, even the ones we like. Some are just
more corrupt than others.
|12.9.08 @ 11:58AM|#
cunnivore,
joe,
The president of the United States offering "appreciation" for
appointing the senator he wants is an entirely different thing from
that little old lady offering "appreciation" if you carry her
groceries to her car.
Governor Blago, who seems to know a bit more about public
corruption than you or I, seems to disagree. He first calls his
expected payback "nothing," and then sneers as "appreciation" as
being its equivalent.
robc|12.9.08 @ 11:59AM|#
joe,
The question is, does appreciation count as a bribe? In other
circumstances, I could see the IRS claiming it has monetary value.
:)
|12.9.08 @ 11:59AM|#
Well it's about damn time. And it couldn't have happened to a
more deserving dickhead.
I know I shouldn't be, but reading through some of the transcripts
of his behavior, I was surprised at how brazen he was in his
demands, even by politician standards. Dude didn't even use code or
anything when talking about bribes and kickbacks.
What did he think -- that there weren't gonna be taps? The guy has
been under a corruption cloud since his 2nd year of his first
term.
This Fitzgerald fellow is getting more and more dreamy every
day.
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 11:59AM|#
I should add that I don't think Obama did anything illegal, but saying he'd appreciate if the governor appointed the person he wanted is very tacky. A true statesman would have said it was none of his business and left it at that.
Jozef|12.9.08 @ 11:59AM|#
Jozef, are you saying Ron Paul and Jeff Flake are
corrupt?
I'm saying that every politician is by definition a criminal,
unless proved otherwise. (By my definition, I may add; you're free
to think otherwise.)
|12.9.08 @ 12:00PM|#
cunniver,
One of us is, indeed, letting his partisan perceptions cloud his
understanding.
And it's the guy who thinks that Blago thought he was going to get
something from Obama for appointing his preferred candidate,
despite Blago repeatedly saying exactly the opposite.
|12.9.08 @ 12:02PM|#
robc | December 9, 2008, 11:59am | #
joe,
The question is, does appreciation count as a bribe?
The indictment is full of examples of how Rod Blagojevich responded
to bribes. His response tends not to include the phrase "Fuck him."
Rather, that particular term seems to be reserved for those, like
the Cubbies, who don't offer him what he wants in exchange for
favorable treatment.
|12.9.08 @ 12:02PM|#
But, I do give Blogo points for calling Obama a "motherfucker". Obama did have no business trying to appoint a successor, especially if all he was offering was some appreciation. Appreciation isn't worth shit in today's market.
Inkstained Wretch|12.9.08 @ 12:03PM|#
I'd just like to point out that the governor was a major proponent of drug reimportation from Canada and loved to bash pharmaceutical companies for their "greed". Well, he would know.
|12.9.08 @ 12:03PM|#
Meh. I don't even think it's tacky of Obama to offer an opinion on the selection. The President-as-de facto-leader-of-his-party is a fairly entrenched idea that's not going away any time soon.
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 12:04PM|#
joe,
If I offer a DMV employee $1 to get an inspection sticker for my
car without actually having an inspection done, and he replies that
that's "nothing", does that mean I didn't try to bribe him?
Again, I don't think Obama did anything illegal. This is just more
garden-variety influence peddling, perfectly legal and perfectly
consistent with the old-school politics that Obama was supposed to
be changing.
robc|12.9.08 @ 12:04PM|#
joe,
I didnt ask if Blago considered it a bribe. It is clear he had no
want of appreciation. He considered it equivalent to nothing. The
question is whether an overzealous government hack considers it a
bribe or not. You, me and Blago are on the same page. Considering
some of the things the IRS might consider "income", all government
officials arent.
robc|12.9.08 @ 12:05PM|#
joe,
Also, your lack of sense of humor is showing. I was making an IRS
joke, not disagreeing with you.
|12.9.08 @ 12:06PM|#
Let's not ruin this with arguing over whether Obama was corrupt too. This arrest does not have me in the type of spirits that Spitzer being busted, and my personal pipe dream of Schumer being busted, would have me. But it's still pretty great.
|12.9.08 @ 12:06PM|#
The funny thing is, this Rezko/Illinois corruption investigation
was supposed to be the proof that Obama was a corrupt Chicago
politician.
Now that the indictment contains nothing whatsoever about him,
except the actual target of the investigation repeatedly expressing
frustration that Obama won't play ball, I guess we'll be seeing
everyone who made that charge throughout the campaign come to their
senses and acknowledge their error.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! Naw, just joshin'!
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 12:08PM|#
One of us is, indeed, letting his partisan perceptions cloud
his understanding.
I haven't voted Republican in eight years, thank you. Go ahead and
continue projecting though, it's fun.
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 12:10PM|#
I guess Illinois governors have the same problem with bribery as the New York governors have with adultery (remember current Gov. Patterson's escapades at the Days Inn). I'll take adultery any day faced with that choice.
|12.9.08 @ 12:13PM|#
cunnivore,
If I offer a DMV employee $1 to get an inspection
sticker...you will be in a very different situation than Blago
in his efforts to get something out of Obama.
An accurate example would be, if a DMV employee complains to his
crony that you weren't going to give him anything exchange for your
sticker, except your appreciation.
Show us your cards. We've got Blago repeatedly getting angry that
Obama wouldn't play ball, but you're insisting that the word
"appreciation" actually refers to some meaningful payback, and not
the zip zero nada that Blago treats it as, because of...what,
exactly?
This is just more garden-variety influence peddling, perfectly
legal and perfectly consistent with the old-school politics that
Obama was supposed to be changing. Blago didn't seem to see it
that way. Fitzgerald didn't seem to see it that way.
Just to make it perfectly clear, the only thing even approaching
evidence that Obama was involved in influence peddling is Blago
expressing anger that wasn't able to sell his influence to
Obama.
|12.9.08 @ 12:15PM|#
I haven't voted Republican in eight years, thank
you.
That's nice. It's also irrelevant. People without loyalty to one or
the other party can fall victim to confirmation bias, too. In fact,
it can make them even more susceptable to it, because they think
they can't possibly be biased in their perceptions of party
members, so they don't look for it.
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 12:18PM|#
joe,
Nope. McCain supporters said I was doing "nothing" to oppose Obama,
so by your logic I don't oppose Obama.
adrian|12.9.08 @ 12:22PM|#
Some are saying candidate #5 who offered 500k for the seat could be jesse jackson jr. this could be an even better story soon.
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 12:23PM|#
Heck, they even said I was effectively voting FOR Obama! That's not just nothing, it's less than nothing!
Egosumabbas|12.9.08 @ 12:26PM|#
I have inlaws in Springfield, and they've been clamoring for
Blago's head on a platter for at least five years. Every single
time I would come over there would be a new story about some truly
awful thing Hot Rod had done. It usually fell in one of the
following categories:
1) Nepotism/Patronage
2) Outright bribery
3) Unfunded mandates to give Blago some positive press (free rides
for senior citizens on CTA)
3) Unworkable projects to give Blago some national exposure (drug
reimportation form Canada)
4) Total waste taxpayer money for personal gain (constant trips
from Chicago to Springfield just for starters)
5) Total avoidance of Springfield at all costs, making him
basically inaccessible. (Governor's mansion unused, Springfield
schools not "good enough" for his children)
6) Exploitation of loopholes and badgering to ramrod his own
decrees while ignoring the legislature.
Mike M.|12.9.08 @ 12:27PM|#
A Chicago politician, a criminal? Say it isn't so!!
Next I suppose they'll be telling me something really nuts, like
some of that money Obama raised during his campaign wasn't really
legal.
|12.9.08 @ 12:29PM|#
Its a depreciating asset.
Heh. Indeed.
True story: I'm in the Registry of Deeds, and one of the clerks
calls to the Registrar, "The City Clerk's on the phone. She wants
to know if you can..." do some paperwork ASAP.
The Registrar rolls his eyes.
"He says he'd really appreciate it."
"That guy doesn't appreciate anything."
joe: "Hey, he appreciated my house about 75% last year."
Bah dum bum. Registry of Deeds humor. I'm gonna be rich!
sage|12.9.08 @ 12:34PM|#
Just don't spend any time thinking about the possibility
that Saint Obama could have known about this - or even engaged in a
little pay-to-play himself. No sir, our Chicago politicians are
pristine!
Wouldn't dream of it. I saw on the news this morning that he's
already got a 79% approval rating - and he hasn't even taken the
Triple-O yet!
BDB|12.9.08 @ 12:39PM|#
This is like their second Governor to do a perp walk in 20 years
isn't it?
What a shitty state government. I have problems with politicians
here, but for some reason I don't see Tim Kaine doing a perp
walk.
|12.9.08 @ 12:42PM|#
Alaska, Illinois...I'm sorry, Rhode Island, you're old news.
Second tier.
You want to get back on top? Two words: Governor Buddy. C'mon, you
know you want to.
The Wine Commonsewer|12.9.08 @ 12:44PM|#
Between Blagojevich, Ted Stevens, and Wiliam Jefferson, this
has been a pretty bad year for criminals in public
office.
Jesus Chrysler, Jefferson and Blagojevich make Stevens look like a
high school kid forging a note from his parents to get back into
class after Senior Ditch Day.
Not that getting a free porch on your house should get a pass, it's
just that there is such a thing as severity of the crime. It's why
we have the death penalty for premeditated murderers and check
kiters get probation.
|12.9.08 @ 12:45PM|#
You know what's a good way to tell corruption accusations that
are legitimate, vs. those that are just partisan mudslinging?
People working in good faith work very hard to distinguish between
corrupt and honest acts, and corrupt and honest individuals.
People who aren't work to blur those distinctions, "Don
Seigelman."
|12.9.08 @ 12:46PM|#
Not that getting a free porch on your house should get a
pass...
How about an entire second story, with an estimated value of
$200,000?
Abdul|12.9.08 @ 12:51PM|#
This story raises a lot of questions. First, where will prospective buyers go to put in a bid on the soon to be vacant Illinois governor's office?
BDB|12.9.08 @ 12:52PM|#
"Abdul | December 9, 2008, 12:51pm | #
This story raises a lot of questions. First, where will prospective
buyers go to put in a bid on the soon to be vacant Illinois
governor's office?"
I have a hard time believing the IL Lt. Gov. is innocent in
this.
Don Siegelman|12.9.08 @ 12:52PM|#
"Partisan mudslinging" sent me to prison?
I thought BushCo set me up. Why hath thou forsaken me joe?
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 1:00PM|#
I'm wondering what the going rate for Joe Biden's seat is. Delaware's not exactly Illinois, so I'm guessing in the neighborhood of a six pack and a grilled cheese sandwich.
Egosumabbas|12.9.08 @ 1:02PM|#
"First, where will prospective buyers go to put in a bid on the
soon to be vacant Illinois governor's office?"
IT'S BEEN EMPTY THE WHOLE ENTIRE TIME!!!!
He's never lived in the Governor's Mansion, he commuted from his
Ravenswood mansion to Springfield on the public dime.
BDB|12.9.08 @ 1:02PM|#
"cunnivore | December 9, 2008, 1:00pm | #
I'm wondering what the going rate for Joe Biden's seat is."
A six pack of Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA and a two large pizzas
from Grotto.
Russ 2000|12.9.08 @ 1:08PM|#
Blagojevich said he knew that the President-elect wanted
Senate Candidate 1 for the open seat but "they're not willing to
give me anything except appreciation. [Expletive] them."
IMO, Blago is correct in not merely doing the president-elect's
bidding.
He should be selecting someone who will look out for the state of
Illinois and not merely look out for the president-elect. Instead,
Blago wants someone who will look out for Blago. Wotta asshole.
|12.9.08 @ 1:14PM|#
Fortunately, like all residents of the Motor City, political
corruption is completely unfamiliar to me.*
What's it like?
* Truth is, I really can't remember a corrupt Michigan governor in
my lifetime. I do remember an honest mayor of Detroit, Dennis
Archer, which puts us one ahead of Chicago and any incorporated
burg in Jersey.
Egosumabbas|12.9.08 @ 1:15PM|#
I don't think you guys fully appreciate Blagojavich's epic level of douchiness. The "license for bribe" is a quaint memory of a bygone era where a 20 dollar bill got you out of the DMV a bit faster. I almost don't mind that kind of corruption, if you don't believe in driver's licenses anyway. Think of it as a user fee. No, this was a colossal sucking dry of the public treasury. A bribe wasn't about greasing the wheels, it was about how quickly you could rob taxpayers of their wealth. The bigger the bribe, the bigger the public teet.
|12.9.08 @ 1:15PM|#
Later that day, speaking to Advisor A, Blagojevich said: "I'm
going to keep this Senate option for me a real possibility, you
know, and therefore I can drive a hard bargain." He added later
that the seat "is a [expletive] valuable thing, you just don't give
it away for nothing."
Hard for me to see this as anything but old fashioned logrolling
(logrolling - legislators buying and selling their votes - or
appointments - with your money for the purpose of re-election or
election to higher office). By that standard, all representatives
are guilty. But I do think its a bad thing, because it makes for
ever expanding expenditures to finance the logrolling.
|12.9.08 @ 1:20PM|#
A six pack of Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA and a two large
pizzas from Grotto.
Throw in a couple pounds of taffy and you got yerself a deal.
highnumber|12.9.08 @ 1:26PM|#
I have a hard time believing the IL Lt. Gov. is innocent in
this.
Blago would never have let Pat Quinn anywhere near anything he
valued.
|12.9.08 @ 1:27PM|#
Illinois gevernors of note:
Dwight Herbert Green 1941 to 1949. Allegedly allowed mobster Al
Capone to run free.
William Grant Stratton 1953 to 1961. Indicted for tax evasion,
acquitted.
Daniel Walker 1973 to 1977. Convicted of "improprieties" during the
Savings and Loan scandal in 1987 and served two years in federal
prison.
George Ryan 1999 to 2003. Indicted on 18 counts of federal
racketeering charges in 2003 and convicted on all 18 counts.
Blogo 2002 - 2008. Convicted for having a name no non-resident can
pronounce and no resident can spell. I might have taken some
liberties with the facts on this one.
(true)Parts of this taken from:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/357871/illinois_governors_office_no_stranger.html?cat=75
|12.9.08 @ 1:39PM|#
Don Siegelman | December 9, 2008, 12:52pm | #
"Partisan mudslinging" sent me to prison?
No, you're purposely blurring actually corrupt - like Blago and
Jefferson - with an honest political who was sent to prison in a
corrupt prosecution.
I didn't think it was that complicated, but like I said, some
people purposely work to not understand things.
Adam West|12.9.08 @ 1:39PM|#
Throw in a couple pounds of taffy and you got yerself a deal.
I love this job more than I love taffy ... and I'm a man who enjoys
his taffy.
Karl Rove|12.9.08 @ 1:48PM|#
joe doesn't extend his Moonbat conspiracy theories to poor Rod Blagojevich. I got him just like I did Spitzer and Siegelman!
|12.9.08 @ 1:51PM|#
Fresno Dan,
At various times, in exchange for the Senate appointment,
Blagojevich discussed obtaining:
< a substantial salary for himself at a either a non-profit
foundation or an organization affiliated with labor unions;
< placing his wife on paid corporate boards where he speculated
she might garner as much as $150,000 a year;
< promises of campaign funds - including cash up front;
and
< a cabinet post or ambassadorship for himself.
Just last week, on December 4, Blagojevich allegedly told an
advisor that he might "get some (money) up front, maybe" from
Senate Candidate 5, if he named Senate Candidate 5 to the Senate
seat, to insure that Senate Candidate 5 kept a promise about
raising money for Blagojevich if he ran for re-election. In a
recorded conversation on October 31, Blagojevich claimed he was
approached by an associate of Senate Candidate 5 as follows: "We
were approached 'pay to play.' That, you know, he'd raise 500
grand. An emissary came. Then the other guy would raise a million,
if I made him (Senate Candidate 5) a Senator."
This isn't "vote for my bill." This is about enriching himself.
cunnivore|12.9.08 @ 1:53PM|#
If it weren't for Chicago's presence within its borders, I don't
think Illinois government would be so corrupt.
Of course, if it weren't for Chicago, Illinois would be Indiana, so
it's a fair price to pay.
this guy|12.9.08 @ 1:54PM|#
Cunivore - Blago doesn't live in Springfield, he lives in Ravenswood and commutes to Springfield in a private plane.
|12.9.08 @ 1:54PM|#
Karl Rove | December 9, 2008, 1:48pm | #
joe doesn't extend his Moonbat conspiracy theories...
My conspiracy theory? An appeals court found that there was
sufficient merit to Siegelman's claim that his prosecution was
corrupt to not only allow his case to go forward, but to order his
immediate release from prison,
"Karl."
I got him just like I did Spitzer and Siegelman!
Who said anything about Spitzer?
You know, a wise man (an incredibly handsome wise man, who's hung
like a horse) once wrote:
People working in good faith work very hard to distinguish
between corrupt and honest acts, and corrupt and honest
individuals.
People who aren't work to blur those distinctions
|12.9.08 @ 1:55PM|#
You know what's a good way to tell corruption accusations that are legitimate, vs. those that are just partisan mudslinging?
People working in good faith work very hard to distinguish between corrupt and honest acts, and corrupt and honest individuals.
joe, I would think that being willing to prosecute people from both
parties would be one way to tell. Of course, the prosecutors in the
Don Siegelman case did so as well, having prosecuted corrupt
Republicans in Alabama as well. You have to believe that when they
indicted and convicted
Republican Governor Guy Hunt, that was okay, but that the same
prosecutors can't be trusted about Gov. Siegelman. The lead US
Attorney in the case, Louis Franklin, has served in Democratic
administrations in Alabama as well as Republican. He's not a
political appointee. The other lead attorney, Stephen P. Feaga, led
the prosecution of Gov. Guy Hunt (R).
Another way to tell is by looking at the local media, instead of
outraged national partisans trying to defend "their side" without
being on the ground. Again, in the Don Siegelman case the local
papers (not Republican-supporting, as most AL papers, e.g.,
endorsed Obama) felt that Siegelman was corrupt; his defenders are
mostly not Alabama-based and don't want to learn the facts
either.
|12.9.08 @ 2:00PM|#
I'm wondering what the going rate for Joe Biden's seat is. Delaware's not exactly Illinois, so I'm guessing in the neighborhood of a six pack and a grilled cheese sandwich.
They're appointing Biden's former chief of staff to keep the seat
warm until Biden's son gets back from Iraq, at which point he'll
yield the seat for the eldest son to inherit. Or at least that's
the common speculation in Delaware. Beau Biden has ruled out
accepting an appointment for now, at least until his tour of duty
is over.
|12.9.08 @ 2:01PM|#
Here you go, "Karl."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/27/house.siegelman/
Think Blago is going to be released POST-CONVICTION by a federal
judge? I guess he's a moonbat, too.
John Thacker,
Think Guy Hunt is going to be released from prison by a federal
judge?
...but that the same prosecutors can't be trusted about Gov.
Siegelman. Trust, but verify. You know, by looking at the
facts of the case. Maybe we can set up a third branch of government
that does that, maybe get them some nice black robes.
|12.9.08 @ 2:02PM|#
Do you have any idea how high the burden of proof is to get a convicted felon released from prison before his appeal is even heard, based on the strength of his claim?
punk7|12.9.08 @ 2:04PM|#
ok, lets cut through the monumental bs here and get it right ... Blago is a corrupt bitch pol. He's been caught red-handed. And for once, I agree with joe ... Obama cannot be implicated in any of this nonsense. In fact, it seems to me as if he (or his team) rather intelligently distanced themselves from any impropriety here.
|12.9.08 @ 2:17PM|#
And for once, I agree with joe
Me, too.
And I think the prosecutor would have loved to let Blago continue
to run, roping in more and more people on the bugs and wires, but
realized that Blago might actually appoint a US Senator, and wasn't
willing to pay that price just to snag some more scalps.
Please, please, Santa Claus, bring me an indictment of JJ Jr. for
Christmas.
|12.9.08 @ 2:19PM|#
Awwwwwwwww. I'm tearing up here. It's just like a holiday
special:
RC Dean learns the True Meaning of Fitzmas.
God bless us, every one!
|12.9.08 @ 2:31PM|#
Part of why I know is that far too many of the articles about
Siegelman are written by people not in or from Alabama, and include
comments like "Republican-dominated" Alabama. That would be the
state that still has a 3:2 edge in the state House and 2:1 in the
Senate for Democrats, and elects its Lieutenant Governor separately
and has only elected one Republican to that post. (Oddly enough,
that was when Siegelman was governor.) Yes, Alabama absolutely
votes Republican in presidential elections, but the state
Democratic Party is quite strong. It's not a one-party
Republican state at the state level, that's for sure.
They may not have enough to make a solid enough case for
conviction, which certainly happens. The appeals process and the
trial are certainly appropriate; I certainly wasn't arguing for it
not to go before judges. But certainly many people have made up
their minds that the prosecution was corrupt without even
investigating the details, just because they're partisans.
Sen. Stevens' trial was nearly derailed due to prosecutor
misbehavior as well. I don't think that makes him honest.
Egosumabbas|12.9.08 @ 2:31PM|#
"Obama cannot be implicated in any of this nonsense."
Perhaps not in relation to Hot Rod, but probably due to his friend
Rezko. That may take a very long time though.
|12.9.08 @ 2:38PM|#
Can somebody explain to me what Obama is alleged to have done in
regards to Rezko that is improper?
The closest thing to a cogent accucation I've seen is that he
didn't pay enough for an unbuildable strip of land he bought from
him, and that was based on thinking that the per-square-foot value
of an unbuildable piece of land is the same as a per-square-value
of a buildable lot.
Don Siegelman|12.9.08 @ 2:44PM|#
Can somebody explain to me what Obama is alleged to have
done in regards to Rezko that is improper?
How 'bout "a pay-for-play scheme in which he exchanged official
acts and influence for cash, property, and services"
Worked on me.
Egosumabbas|12.9.08 @ 2:49PM|#
Also, keep in mind, joe, that I posted a link form wikipedia that attempts strict neutrality, particularly with living persons. I'm sure there are a number of muckraking blogs that only scratch the surface of a number of their past seedy dealings.
|12.9.08 @ 2:57PM|#
Ego,
I read the whole article. There is not a single accusation of an
improper act by Obama in any of it.
I ge the "go back a long way" part. They knew each other. They had
some dealings together. I'm asking, what improper acts was Obama
alleged to have performed?
"Don Seigelmen,"
How 'bout "a pay-for-play scheme in which he exchanged official
acts and influence for cash, property, and services"
That is a description of a type of crime. I'm asking, what actual
acts is Barack Obama alleged to have performed that would make him
guilty of that crime?
|12.9.08 @ 3:08PM|#
Rezko raised money for Obama - not an improper act by
Obama.
The Obama's bought a strip of land from the Rezkos. Not an improper
act.
I'm looking for "Obama ordered the police to stop investigating
Rezko," or "Obama wrote a earmark into a bill that benefited Rezko
but didn't actually accomplish a public purpose," or "Obama told
one of Rezko's competitors he'd have him arrested if he bid a
project Rezko wanted" or "Obama had Rezko replace his real birth
certificate with a forgery."
I've seen all sorts of accusations of favors Governor Blago did for
Tony Rezko. All I've seen about Obama are statements that Rezko did
things for him - raised money, donated to his campaign, sold him a
strip of land.
C'mon, there were all sorts of wacky accusations thrown around
during this campaign. What is Obama alleged to have done on Rezko's
behalf, that was wrong for him to do?
Egosumabbas|12.9.08 @ 3:09PM|#
"I'm asking, what improper acts was Obama alleged to have
performed?"
Nice to see that partisanship has blinded you to the truth joe.
NEWSFLASH: Obama is a corrupt politician! Rezko gave Obama lots of
"donations" in exchange for some sweet government contracts. Let me
break that down more simply for you: Rezko gave Obama money, so
that Obama could steal money from me to give it to Rezko. Oh and
there were some shady real-estate deals that they made together.
EARTH TO JOE! DEMOCRATS ARE JUST AS CORRUPT AS REPUBLICANS!
|12.9.08 @ 3:18PM|#
Rezko gave Obama lots of "donations" in exchange for some
sweet government contracts.
OK, now we're getting somewhere. All you have to do to actually
answer my question is find something Obama did that 1) was
improper, or alleged to be improper and 2) benefitted Tony
Rezko.
Because so far, all you've got are these vague statements amounting
to "He did bad stuff," without being able to name any bad stuff he
did.
Here, let me break it down for you:
joe: What did Obama do wrong?
Ego: He's a murderer?
joe: OK, who is supposed to have murdered?
Ego: He's a murderer, joe! He killed people!
joe: OK, what people? When? What murders did he commit?
Ego: Earth to joe, Barack Obama is corrupt! God, you're so
partisan! DEMOCRATS blah blah blah...
Let me make this real easy: Charles Manson ordered his
followers to kill a bunch of people in Sharon Tate's house, and
then ordered his followers to kill a bunch of people at the
LaBianca home.
Now, someone, anyone, replace that last part with something similar
- a description of a specific act that Barack Obama
performed.
I'm not even asking you to prove that he performed it, and that it
was improper. I'm saying, can someone please tell me what acts
Barack Obama is supposed to have performed?
Did he kidnap the Lindburgh baby? Take the Sunday Tribune from the
front porch at 125 Jefferson Street in August 1997?
|12.9.08 @ 3:21PM|#
Rezko gave Obama lots of "donations" in exchange for some
sweet government contracts. OK, what government contracts?
What did Barack Obama do to get Rezko those government
contracts?
Oh and there were some shady real-estate deals that they made
together. OK, what shady real estate deals? Can you name
any?
You seem to have very, very strong feelings that acts fitting these
descriptions took place. It would be odd to have such strong
feelings without having, at a minimum, an understanding of some
action he actually took.
Unless you're just assuming he must have committed acts fitting
those descriptions, without anly actual knowledge of such acts,
because something something something about Democrats and
politicians.
|12.9.08 @ 3:32PM|#
I know there are Obama conspiracy people who read these threads.
I've seen no end of people invoke the name "Rezko" during the
campaign.
I swear, I'm not even going to argue with you about whether the
accusations are valid. I just want to know if anyone can tell me
what they are.
Egosumabbas|12.9.08 @ 3:50PM|#
Jesus Christ joe, did you read my wikipedia link that basically
said all the improper dealings they had together in great
detail?
You're the one going ZOMG PROVE IT MR CONSPIRACY MAN after I had
already posted a link.
I believe they call this a "prebuttal".
Here
it is again in case you missed it.
Egosumabbas|12.9.08 @ 3:51PM|#
Also joe, google is your friend (it was also quite easy to find on wikipedia). But I can understand why partisan loyalty has prevented you from doing your own due diligence.
|12.9.08 @ 3:59PM|#
Jesus Christ joe, did you read my wikipedia link that
basically said all the improper dealings they had together in great
detail?
I read the whole thing. There are no statements about any acts
Obama committed. Lots of statements about what Rezko did - donated
money to Obama's campaign - but no "Obama did X" statements.
I already knew they "had ties," in the form of the land sale,
Rezko's donations, and the old case where Obama did legal work for
a church that was in a partnership with Rezko, but people are
making accusations that Obama did things that were improper. The
wikipedia link doesn't describe anything Obama did.
Since you have been unable to actually write a declarative
statement on your own, but seem convinced that there is a charge in
there, let me make it even easier for you. Here is the section of
the wikipedia article you linked to.
to Barack Obama
In 1990, after Barack Obama was elected president of the Harvard
Law Review, Rezmar Corp. offered him a job, which Obama turned
down. Obama chose instead to accept a job with law firm Davis,
Miner, Barnhill & Galland,[30] which primarily worked civil
rights cases, but also represented Rezmar and helped the company
get more than $43 million in government funding and whose former
senior partner, Allison S. Davis, later went into business with
Rezko and, in 2003, was appointed to Illinois State Board of
Investment by Governor Blagojevich at Rezko's request.[7][31] On
July 31, 1995 the first ever political contributions to Obama were
$300 from a lawyer, a $5,000 loan from a car dealer, and $2,000
from two food companies owned by Rezko.[32] Starting in 2003, Rezko
was one of the people on Obama's U.S. Senate campaign finance
committee, which raised more than $14 million.[7] Rezko threw an
early fundraiser for Obama, which Chicago Tribune reporter David
Mendelland claims was instrumental in providing Obama with seed
money for his U.S. Senate race.[1] Obama has since identified over
$250,000 in campaign contributions to various Obama campaigns as
coming from Rezko or close associates, and has claimed to have
donated almost two thirds of that amount to unspecified nonprofit
groups.[33][34]
Also, in 2005 Obama purchased a new home in the Kenwood District of
Chicago for $1.65 million (which was $300,000 below the asking
price but represented the highest offer on the property) on the
same day that Rezko's wife, Rita Rezko, purchased the adjoining
empty lot from the same sellers for the full asking price.[35]
Obama acknowledged bringing his interest in the property to Rezko's
attention,[36] but denied any coordination of offers. According to
Obama, while the properties had originally been a single property,
the previous owners decided to sell the land as two separate lots,
but made it a condition of the sales that they be closed on the
same date. Obama also stated that the properties had been on the
market for months, that his offer was the best of two bids, and
that Ms. Rezko's bid was matched by another offer, also of
$625,000, so that she could not have purchased the property for
less.[37] Obama's description of the purchase was later confirmed
by the previous owner of the house.[38]
After it had been reported in 2006 that Rezko was under federal
investigation for influence-peddling, Obama purchased a 10 foot
(3.0 m) wide strip of Ms. Rezko's property for $104,500, $60,000
above the assessed value.[35][7] According to Chicago Sun-Times
columnist, Mark Brown, "Rezko definitely did Obama a favor by
selling him the 10-foot strip of land, making his own parcel less
attractive for development."[39] Obama acknowledges that the
exchange may have created the appearance of impropriety, and stated
"I consider this a mistake on my part and I regret it."[37]
On December 28, 2006, Ms. Rezko sold the property to a company
owned by her husband's former business attorney. That sale of
$575,000, combined with the earlier $104,500 sale to the Obamas,
amounted to a net profit of $54,500 over her original purchase,
less $14,000 for a fence along the property line and other
expenses.[40][41] In October 2007, the new owners put the still
vacant land up for sale again, this time for $1.5
million.[42]
In June 2007, the Sun-Times published a story about letters Obama
had written in 1997 to city and state officials in support of a
low-income senior citizen development project headed by Rezko and
partner Allison Davis. The project received more than $14 million
in taxpayer funds, including $885,000 in development fees for Rezko
and Davis. Of Obama's letters in support of the Cottage View
Terrace apartments development, Obama spokesman Bill Burton said,
"This wasn't done as a favor for anyone, it was done in the
interests of the people in the community who have benefited from
the project. I don't know that anyone specifically asked him to
write this letter nine years ago. There was a consensus in the
community about the positive impact the project would make and
Obama supported it because it was going to help people in his
district." Rezko's attorney responded that "Mr. Rezko never spoke
with, nor sought a letter from, Senator Obama in connection with
that project.[43]
In the South Carolina Democratic Party presidential debate on
January 21, 2008, Senator Hillary Clinton said that Obama had
represented Rezko, who she referred to as a slum landlord.[44]
Obama responded that he had never represented Rezko and had done
only about five hours work, indirectly, for Rezko's firm.[citation
needed] Within days of the debate, a photo of Rezko posing with
Bill and Hillary Clinton surfaced. When asked about the photo
Hillary Clinton commented "I probably have taken hundreds of
thousands of pictures. I wouldn't know him if he walked in the
door."[45]
Now, all you have to do with cut and paste the part that explains
something Obama did that is, allegedly, wrong.
Fitzmas Comes Early|12.9.08 @ 4:01PM|#
It's beginning to look a lot like Fitzmas!
From the number of his political pals headed to the pen, the Fresh
Prince of Bill Ayers may soon regret those stocking stuffers he got
from Tony Rezko.
Personally, I'm hoping they arrest him during right during the
Inauguration.
"Mr. Obama, do you solemnly swear to... uh, I've just been handed a
new script... let's see, let me start again... Mr. Obama, you have
the right to remain silent..."
|12.9.08 @ 4:02PM|#
You're the one going ZOMG PROVE IT MR CONSPIRACY MAN after I
had already posted a link.
I don't even want you to prove anything to me. I want you to tell
me what improper act he is alleged to have committed, and promised
I won't argue with you about whether it was proper.
Is that so hard?
Here, it would look something like this:
Barack Obama fed John Schmidt's baby to a dingo during a trip to
Austrialia in 2004.
Barack Obama leaned on a police commissioner to call off an
investigation of Tony Rezko.
Barack Obama personally flew and airplane into Mena Airport full of
cocaine at the behest of Tony Rezko.
C'mon, you can do it. Getting all pissy because you can't answer my
question doesn't cut it.
joe is retarded |12.9.08 @ 4:11PM|#
For fuck's sake he can't even read his own posts.
"There are no statements about any acts Obama committed."
"In June 2007, the Sun-Times published a story about letters Obama
had written in 1997 to city and state officials in support of a
low-income senior citizen development project headed by Rezko and
partner Allison Davis. The project received more than $14 million
in taxpayer funds, including $885,000 in development fees for Rezko
and Davis."
That's called "influence-peddling" and it appears Obama received,
in exchange, a bribe through the Rezko property deal.
|12.9.08 @ 4:20PM|#
There you go! Somebody actually found something!
Really, was that so hard?
"Barack Obama wrote a letter to get a grant for a project Rezko was
involved in."
I'm going to keep my word, and not argue about the validity of the
accusation that the letter was improper, or that there was any
bribe in the land deal.
These charges are about Barack Obama writing a letter for a public
housing upgrade project. Thank you.
Egosumabbas|12.9.08 @ 4:20PM|#
From the text you copy and pasted from the link I originally
showed you:
"...represented Rezmar and helped the company get more than $43
million in government funding ..."
"...Obama has since identified over $250,000 in campaign
contributions to various Obama campaigns as coming from Rezko or
close associates..."
Joe. You find NOTHING improper in this? Nothing at all? Or are you
lying when you say you hate corporatism?
|12.9.08 @ 4:21PM|#
So, is that it? Is that right, that all of these accusation of "bribery" and "influence" peddling" are about a letter Barack Obama wrong in favor of a certain public-housing-improvement project?
|12.9.08 @ 4:31PM|#
"...represented Rezmar and helped the company get more than $43
million in government funding ..."
"...Obama has since identified over $250,000 in campaign
contributions to various Obama campaigns as coming from Rezko or
close associates..."
Neither of those are accusations of an improper act. Neither
"helped so and so get a grant" nor "recieve campaign contributions"
are accusations of an improper act being committed.
Joe. You find NOTHING improper in this? Nothing at
all?
My question was about criminal acts, that the Rezko case was
supposed to demonstrate. I think it's "improper" in a general sense
that political campaigns are funded the way they are, with people
who stand to gain materially providing funding for those political
figures and parties that they think will help them.
But no, receiving campaign donations like that is not, as I'm
always told by Reason magazine on campaign finance threads, the
same thing as bribery, and is not considered bribery without an
explicit quid pro quo. There is not statement of a quid pro quo in
that article.
Now, to actually answer the question, what improper act did Obama
perform, that Patrick Fitzgerald might indict him for? Writing the
letter for the public housing deal - is that what you're accusing
him of, that there was a quid pro quo, for him to write that letter
in exchange for X dollars in campaign donations?
Egosumabbas|12.9.08 @ 5:30PM|#
@joe
Now you're splitting hairs between "legally" improper and "morally"
improper. I'm quite confident that since we've established moral
impropriety, legal impropriety will probably become evident
eventually, as the two are usually coincidental. I'm not holding my
breath in anticipation though.
As an aside, I'm against campaign reform on constitutional grounds
(freedom of speech). All things being equal, if other laws were
also constitutional, you'd find very little bribery in the form
campaign donations. It's rational and expected for special interest
groups to throw money at politicians in expectation that congress
will broadly interpret the commerce clause. Campaign finance reform
is simply a bandaid on a gushing chest wound which will have
unintended consequences--such as not being able to express
political opinions out of fear of being fined.
Ah, Clem|12.9.08 @ 5:47PM|#
The best part of this is that you know Blow-Dry Rod will start
singing like a canary when it comes time for a plea-bargain. And in
Illinois, god only knows what's going to come out of that. He knows
where all the bodies are buried.
Popcorn, anyone?
joe really is this stupid|12.9.08 @ 8:54PM|#
"There you go! Somebody actually found something! Really, was
that so hard?"
Apparenrly it was too hard to read your own post. If you weren't a
short-bus political hack desperately fellating Obama you might have
brushed aside his sainted balls and seen your own words behind
them.
"these accusation of "bribery" and "influence" peddling" are about
a letter Barack Obama wrong in favor of a certain
public-housing-improvement project?"
As a Democrat, you will no doubt be as shocked as Blago (whom Obama
served as a top adviser to in 2002) to learn you can't pay a
politician a bribe to write letters supporting a taxpayer-funded
project you materially benefit from. See, the taxpayers have this
crazy notion that it's THEIR money being spent.
That's the first illegal act we know about. The
investigation has only just begun. As ABC puts it...
Questions Arise About the Obama/Blagojevich Relationship
VM|12.10.08 @ 8:18AM|#
come to illinois.
you'll see that your black and white, "they're connected" is, to
quote our mayor (who doesn't have anything to do with blago, but
they're connected), "that's silly. silly. it's silly".
instead, take your zeal for prosecution, and look at the outgoing
administration.
|12.10.08 @ 8:29AM|#
Now you're splitting hairs between "legally" improper and
"morally" improper
'
Actually, no, I was merely asking what the accusations were. So
what you're saying is that there aren't even any accusation of
legal impropriety, and that all of the charges are about "moral"
impropriety, and not actual crimes?
OK, thanks! See, given the vagueness with which the Rezko-related
charges have always been made, I didn't realize that. Now I
do.
I'm quite confident that since we've established moral
impropriety Actually, the only thing you've established is
that he wrote a letter. Whether there was anything improper about
it, you haven't provided any evidence for.
As a Democrat, you will no doubt be as shocked as Blago (whom
Obama served as a top adviser to in 2002) to learn you can't pay a
politician a bribe to write letters supporting a taxpayer-funded
project you materially benefit from. As a literate human
being, I am aware that nobody has provided even the slightest shred
of evidence of a bribe being paid.
VM, quite right. Unable to find any actual evidence of wrongdoing
on Obama's behalf, we're going to be treated to months of vague
hand-waving phrases like "they're connected" and "was in bed with"
and "played ball" and lots of other groovy Sopranos-sounding terms
that don't actually mean anything.
|12.10.08 @ 9:28AM|#
I'm quite confident that since we've established moral
impropriety, legal impropriety will probably become evident
eventually, as the two are usually coincidental. I'm not holding my
breath in anticipation though.
So, you think evidence of illegality will emerge, but you don't
think it will?
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