Joe the Muzzled

Matt Welch | October 29, 2008

Just look at how they're muzzling the vice presidential candidate! No, not Sarah Palin:

OCALA, Fla., Oct. 28 Joe Biden spoke to supporters here for 14 minutes and 25 seconds Tuesday morning -- and that's big news.

Until he became Barack Obama's running mate in August, Biden could take that long just to say "good morning"; now the Democratic senator from Delaware has to give his entire stump speech in that span. On Capitol Hill he used to speak endlessly on any subject to anybody who asked for his view (and many who did not); now he has to read his words carefully from a teleprompter, squinting into the bright sunlight to avoid missing a syllable of the text that had been written for him by his Obama handlers.

The muzzling of Biden seems unnatural and inhumane, like taking a proud lion into captivity. Biden, who once scolded Sarah Palin for ducking reporters, hasn't given a news conference since Sept. 7. The king of the rhetorical jungle hasn't taken questions from voters in a town hall forum since Sept. 10, when he famously said that Hillary Clinton is "more qualified than I am to be vice president" and "might have been a better pick than me." He doesn't even do much chitchat with supporters at events since he was caught on tape on one such occasion contradicting Obama's energy policy.

Now even Palin takes questions from reporters on her campaign plane. But the wordiest man in Washington has to make his remarks short, sweet and canned.

More from the Washington Post's Dana Milbank here.

Smart tactics, I am sure, but it also back-handedly illustrates a woefully underreported truism of this election: The Democratic vice presidential candidate is not only a foot-eating clown, he's also about as unpresidential as they get. Unless you want in a chief executive someone who invented the office of Drug Czar, converted batshit anti-rave hysteria into freedom-mangling legislation, bragged about being a PATRIOT Actor from before it was cool, attacked Clarence Thomas as being disqualifyingly libertarian, is a liberal hawk's liberal hawk, and just cannot shut his Botoxed yapper for one second about all the Scranton lunchbuckets he's never "worked a line" with.

John McCain is getting crucified for his pick of Sarah Palin, and perhaps rightfully so, but how Barack Obama gets a simultaneous pass on Joe Biden–meaning, the subject just does not come up–is beyond me.

David Weigel on the Delaware Destroyer here.

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|10.29.08 @ 2:36PM|#

Until he became Barack Obama's running mate in August, Biden could take that long just to say "good morning"; now the Democratic senator from Delaware has to give his entire stump speech in that span

And they are saying that likes it's a bad thing?

Now if we could just get some time limits on Chuck Schumer, that would be Change we can believe in.

|10.29.08 @ 2:38PM|#

John McCain is getting crucified for his pick of Sarah Palin, and perhaps rightfully so, but how Barack Obama gets a simultaneous pass on Joe Biden-meaning, the subject just does not come up-is beyond me.

The McCain campaign featured Palin as a major - some would say the central - element of its media effort for two months, while the Obama camp didn't do the same with Biden.

So the press pays more attention to her.

Elemenope|10.29.08 @ 2:40PM|#

joe beat me to it.

Palin was sold as the second coming of Reagan (in a mini-skirt!), come to save McCain and the GOP from all its follies.

Biden was sold, essentially, as a place-holder.

|10.29.08 @ 2:46PM|#

McCain is a 72 year old cancer survivor, Obama is in his 40s. People care about Palin more than Biden for the same reason why actuaries would charge McCain more for a life insurance policy.

John McCain is getting crucified for his pick of Sarah Palin, and perhaps rightfully so, but how Barack Obama gets a simultaneous pass on Joe Biden-meaning, the subject just does not come up-is beyond me.

Personally, I thought Biden was a terrible pick and a transparent attempt to null the "inexperienced" line of attack. In the world of Foreign Policy, right or wrong Biden is held in high regard.

Unless you want in a chief executive someone who invented the office of Drug Czar, converted batshit anti-rave hysteria into freedom-mangling legislation, bragged about being a PATRIOT Actor from before it was cool,..

These things are features not bugs to todays press corps. Mr Welch seems guilty of improperly projecting his own beliefs on the population and his fellow journalists. None of these issues would even remotely be considered un-Presidential by Washington press corps standards. Instead they would worry if some of these types of things were missing.

I mean seriously, you think any mainstream journalist is gonna take Biden to task for creating a Drug Czar? The same journalists who don't even bother to question "facts" about the drug war or meth epidemics?

In the world of Washington Journalism, Obama didn't get a pass -- he made a smart and safe choice. Someone they knew, someone they liked. Someone not at all radical or unconventional. Sure he may be colorful on the Stump because of some of his gaffes, but other than that as far as the press is concerned Biden has no real liabilities.

|10.29.08 @ 2:51PM|#

She's also got more hawt than Biden.

The camera guys love teh hawt.

Guy Montag|10.29.08 @ 2:52PM|#

Matt,

John McCain is getting crucified for his pick of Sarah Palin, and perhaps rightfully so, but how Barack Obama gets a simultaneous pass on Joe Biden-meaning, the subject just does not come up-is beyond me.

You might want to look at who exactly is doing all the writing about them vs. who the writers are voting for. Perhaps start with the October 29, 2008, 12:00pm article right here on your own website?

|10.29.08 @ 2:52PM|#

Chicago Tom:

All the more reason to be wary of the Washington press corps and their ability to make sensible observations about anything.

|10.29.08 @ 2:53PM|#

Joe Biden spoke to supporters here for 14 minutes and 25 seconds Tuesday morning -- and that's big news.

I'm sure there's a good reason for it. Like when Roosevelt had to give an abbreviated webcast due to a shortage of bandwidth.

Gilbert Martin|10.29.08 @ 2:55PM|#

"John McCain is getting crucified for his pick of Sarah Palin, and perhaps rightfully so, but how Barack Obama gets a simultaneous pass on Joe Biden-meaning, the subject just does not come up-is beyond me."

The reason, of course, is liberal media bias.

They're all in the tank for Obama.

And that's all there is to it.

|10.29.08 @ 2:55PM|#

Seward|10.29.08 @ 2:55PM|#

Biden was sold as shoring up Obama's supposed "foreign policy" weaknesses. That's back when the dynamics of the race were quite different of course.

NotThatDavid|10.29.08 @ 2:56PM|#

The difference is pretty simple, really - Biden has terrible policy positions from a libertarian viewpoint (not unlike most of Congress, though more so), while Palin can barely tie her shoes.

BDB|10.29.08 @ 2:57PM|#

Phrases I never want to hear again after Tuesday:

*In the tank
*Under the bus
*Can't close the deal
*Surge (unless we're talking about the discontinued soft drink_
*Bradley Effect
*White working class rustbelt voters
*Hockey mom
*Any metaphors involving lipstick

Matt Welch|10.29.08 @ 2:57PM|#

Guy Montag,

If only other media institutions were as transparent as we!

Guy Montag|10.29.08 @ 2:57PM|#

phalkor,

Saw that and he did it again in PA or someplace Northish.

BDB|10.29.08 @ 2:58PM|#

I almost forgot:
*Maverick
*Joe the Plumber (or any derivatives from him)
*Joe Sixpack

Feel free to add anything else, btw. I'm sure I missed something.

Ironic|10.29.08 @ 2:58PM|#

Biden is great comic relief. He has always been much funnier than Al Franken, just not intentionally. Not that it take a great deal to accomplish that feat.

Gilbert Martin\'s Unfathomable|10.29.08 @ 2:58PM|#

It's dark in here and we may die.

Ironic|10.29.08 @ 2:59PM|#

BDB, I fully expect Joe the Plumber to get a talk show after this election. It may not last long, but someone will try to make money off of his fame.

Guy Montag|10.29.08 @ 3:00PM|#

Matt,

LOL, yea, like Slate, The Nation, etc? No, wait, I think you are pointing at TNR aren't you? ;)

BDB|10.29.08 @ 3:00PM|#

Oh, I expect that too Ironic. But hopefully his fame will be mercifully short.

|10.29.08 @ 3:01PM|#

All the more reason to be wary of the Washington press corps and their ability to make sensible observations about anything.

pgt, quite right.

I hope no one takes my post as a defense of the Washington Press. They are the worst of the worst. I am more shocked at the naivete that Welch seems to be showing.

It's almost as if he doesn't get it works. And granted, the blame is not all laid at the feet of reporters. There are editorial decisions too. The editors want salacious they want sensational and they want something good to look at.

If you are an editor whose picture are you gonna want on your pages more often?? Palin's pageant-worthy good looks or Biden's ugly mug? What is gonna get more eyeballs? $150,000 wardrobe stories or policy analysis?

McCain chose an unconventional, gimmicky running mate and is now reaping what he sewed. He wanted to make a spalsh and he did. Sadly his vetting process bit him in the ass. Obama chose a milquetoast conventional insider and he has been largely ignored. And thats a good thing as far as Obama he is concerned.

If you are running for President you don't want someone who is gonna overshadow you and steal your thunder (unless you fear are a pretty terrible candidate and want to distract people)

When people who don't think it's possible to set aside one's opinions and report objectively about politics write something that purports to be an objective statement about politics, why would a rational person pay them any attention?

Elemenope|10.29.08 @ 3:02PM|#

Did anyone see the Florida local news interview with Biden where the interviewer quotes Marx and asks Joe to compare "spreading the wealth around" to the communist manifesto?

Joe replies, "Are you joking?".

As he should. Income taxes and progressive taxes have been around much longer than Marx or Communism, and supported by people that cover a wide range of ideology.

Trying to tie Obama's tax plan to Communism is a bit like calling an optical mouse a "concealed laser weapon".

Ironic|10.29.08 @ 3:03PM|#

I have already heard a remix of the theme song to "Bob the Builder" for Joe the Plumber.

|10.29.08 @ 3:04PM|#

Yes We Can!

SIV|10.29.08 @ 3:06PM|#

joe,

I'm getting RNC mailers that say Saxby Chambliss' opponent Jim Martin is so liberal they'll name a street after him in Boston.
Have they?

Guy Montag|10.29.08 @ 3:06PM|#

So Florida is up for grabs again? BTW, how is that Obama 'expanding lead' coming along?

|10.29.08 @ 3:08PM|#

The reason, of course, is liberal media bias.
They're all in the tank for Obama.
And that's all there is to it.

Yeah that's it. Liberals all of them. Like Fred Hiatt's constant support for W's war and his OP/ED pages full of defenses and lacking in any kind of scrutiny of pre-war fabrications made by this administration. An obvious sign of Liberal Bias.

Liberal bias is obviously the only reason why Palin would get more scrutiny than Joe Biden.

I still can't believe people are this stupid.

The fiscal reality is that most media organization executives (you know the guys who make real decisions about the company) prefer GOPers to Dems 9 times out of 10.

I remmeber during the '04 election the head of Viacom (either Redstone or Moonves cant remeber which) was asked who he supported for Pres. His response was basically :
"I like John Kerry and I respect him and think he would make a fine president -- but at the end of the day I have to do what's best for Viacom, and what's best for Viacom is George W Bush". To me that's pretty good example of the silliness of the "liberal media" meme.

|10.29.08 @ 3:09PM|#

"...how Barack Obama gets a simultaneous pass on Joe Biden-meaning, the subject just does not come up-is beyond me."

Matt, Tim will explain it to you. The press people have been waiting all their lives...

Guy Montag|10.29.08 @ 3:11PM|#

Perhaps Sen. Biden only spoke for 14 min. and change because his Obama handlers are making sure he uses his own words?

Ooops, that is still muzzling. Point to Matt.

|10.29.08 @ 3:11PM|#

lmnop, I agree that was the only appropriate response. But still, his tone smacked of snarkiness, oh, and the look on the interviewer's face!

in this humble opinion
priceless

Ironic|10.29.08 @ 3:11PM|#

"So Florida is up for grabs again? BTW, how is that Obama 'expanding lead' coming along?"

Honestly I do not think anyone really knows. The polls are screwy this year. For all we know California will go to McCain and Texas will go to Obama. This is the weirdest election in my lifetime.

BDB|10.29.08 @ 3:11PM|#

I got a mailer from the Republican Party of Virginia that says Barack Obama "thinks like a New England liberal, instead of sharing our Virginia Values".

|10.29.08 @ 3:12PM|#

I don't know, SIV, but I understand Brigham and Women's is going to name their burn unit after that whistleblower Chambliss keeps slandering.

|10.29.08 @ 3:18PM|#

I'm getting RNC mailers that say Saxby Chambliss' opponent Jim Martin is so liberal they'll name a street after him in Boston.

I got a mailer from the Republican Party of Virginia that says Barack Obama "thinks like a New England liberal, instead of sharing our Virginia Values".

Funny, I've never gotten a mailer disparaging a candidate by comparing him to anyone from a rural or red state.

But remember, the dominant theme in American society today is how people on the coasts pick on Real Americans.

BDB|10.29.08 @ 3:21PM|#

Oh, Ted Kennedy is always the Big Bad Boogeyman here whenever a Dem runs statewide.

Of course they can't use him cause he's ill now. This flyer had a pic of John Kerry and Bernie Sanders next to Obama.

|10.29.08 @ 3:26PM|#

I got a mailer from the Republican Party of Virginia that says Barack Obama "thinks like a New England liberal, instead of sharing our Virginia Values".

Massachusetts invented America. Virginia invented slavery. Guess who won?

BDB|10.29.08 @ 3:27PM|#

The Portuguese invented African slavery.

|10.29.08 @ 3:28PM|#

Basically this signals that the vice presindeny will return to being

|10.29.08 @ 3:29PM|#

Preview, you arrogant ass, preview!

Basically this signals that the vice presindeny will return to being not worth a bucket of warm piss.

Hope you enjoy attending kids spelling bees and county fairs Joe.

Gilbert Martin|10.29.08 @ 3:30PM|#

"Liberal bias is obviously the only reason why Palin would get more scrutiny than Joe Biden."

Absolutely correct.

"The fiscal reality is that most media organization executives (you know the guys who make real decisions about the company) prefer GOPers to Dems 9 times out of 10."

Exactly who was the "GOP preferring" CBS executive who decided to use a forged memo to gin up a story about Bush's National Guard service?

|10.29.08 @ 3:30PM|#

a warm bucket?

Nooooooooooo!!! They be steelin J sub D's bukkit!

Matt Welch|10.29.08 @ 3:30PM|#

Guy -- I actually lobbied like hell to get the L.A. Times editorial board to disclose party registration and voting records, knowing that it would be as embarrassing (if not more) than Slate ... but I was rebuffed.

I always find disclosure to be personally quite helpful in the way that it befuddles those who have got you all figured out. For instance, the newsroom at the LAT was always sore that we endorsed Schwarzenegger for re-election, considering all the hard work they did proving to the world that he's an ass-grabber, and since many people there figured I was some kind of Republican, there was a tendency to misblame the pro-Schwarzie sentiment on me. To which I'd point out that I didn't vote for him in the recall, preferring instead TSOL singer (right?) Jack Grisham, and then everyone would change the subject.

|10.29.08 @ 3:32PM|#

Talking is not his best thing.

At least, I hope not.

|10.29.08 @ 3:33PM|#

Biden is a contemptible buffoon. If something happens Obama and Biden mounts the throne we are in for a very rough time until 2012.

How somebody so obviously dumb, and lacking good character is considered "good on foreign policy" is beyond me.

dBd|10.29.08 @ 3:34PM|#

Well the Hockey mom came out firing when she was called on by the Maverick to help surge his polling numbers by courting the "Joe Sixpack" vote, you know, white working class rustbelt voters like Joe the Plumber. She was also expected to do well with disgruntled and racist Hillary supporters in the polls so they wouldn't have to lie to the pollsters thus keeping the McCain campaign from relying on the Bradley effect. That way instead of a big surprise on election day under a Bradley effect scenario, the polls would show McCain closing in and the media would talk about how Obama can't close the deal. Maybe this would still be the case if it wasn't for the media being in the tank for Obama. I also like how the media pretends to be nonpartisan, let me tell you, you could put all the lipstick you want on that pig, but it still looks like Sarah Palin to me, and they have been throwing that pig under the bus for quite some time. The only thing that could save McCain/Palin now is a "game changer".

|10.29.08 @ 3:36PM|#

The Portuguese invented African slavery.

Really? I did not know that. I thought Africans invented African slavery.

Stop it! Stop it!

Yes, Saddam has WMDs! I saw them myself! Just make it stop, I'll tell you anything!

BDB|10.29.08 @ 3:37PM|#

Wayne--

I mean the African slave trade and the whole plantation system.

|10.29.08 @ 3:37PM|#

dBd,

I think you covered them all... Good job!

|10.29.08 @ 3:39PM|#

I mean the African slave trade and the whole plantation system.

Oh. I always thought Africans traded in slaves in Africa before anybody else.

BDB|10.29.08 @ 3:42PM|#

No, they had a kind of serfdom, not chattel/plantation slavery.

SIV|10.29.08 @ 3:43PM|#

Oh. I always thought Africans traded in slaves in Africa before anybody else.

They really innovated in finding an export market.

|10.29.08 @ 3:43PM|#

Stop it! Stop it!

Yes, Saddam has WMDs! I saw them myself! Just make it stop, I'll tell you anything!

All this time Joe has been posting from Gitmo.

hotsauce|10.29.08 @ 3:43PM|#

Guy -- I actually lobbied like hell to get the L.A. Times editorial board to disclose party registration and voting records, knowing that it would be as embarrassing (if not more) than Slate ... but I was rebuffed.

Well, Matt, if we had a Department of Speech, it could operate like the SEC and require disclosure of registrations and voting records, all in the interest of transparency. This will, of course, boost reader confidence.

Guy Montag|10.29.08 @ 3:45PM|#

wayne,

Yep. But I guess whomever you are arguing with thinks slavery was invented here. I guess that could be a valid perception if one knows nothing about the topic.

I suppose, to them, the Spanish were hiring all of those Indians who willingly worked for free.

Oh, and don't forget, the WHOLE FREAKING WORLD was engaged in the slave trade until the English began putting a stop to it. Eventually the US joined in.

So, today, it is pretty musch only the places blamed for slavery that have gotten rid of it. Nasty White people!

|10.29.08 @ 3:46PM|#

No, they had a kind of serfdom, not chattel/plantation slavery.

Oh, OK. Africans were serfers, but Europeans were slave traders.

They (Africans) seem to have learned the (slave) trade pretty well though, as it continues to this day in Africa and the middle east.

Matt Welch|10.29.08 @ 3:48PM|#

Guy -- The point was to make it entirely voluntary, meaning if someone wanted to answer "get stuffed" that would be equally fine.

And yes, sarcasm aside, I think such actions *do* boost reader confidence. Or, if they indicate a shop with a voting record that would make Fidel Castro blush, then they boost a sense of urgency about ideological diversity. In my dreamworld, I mean.

Matt Welch|10.29.08 @ 3:49PM|#

Sorry, last comment intended for hotsauce. Also, hotsauce intended for last comment.

Guy Montag|10.29.08 @ 3:50PM|#

Who was that woman from the Salem Witch Trials? All of a sudden, in the 1940s or later she bacame "Black", because of course, she had been a slave. Truth is, she was a Florida Indian who had been a Spanish slave.

These revisionists are so entertaining sometimes.

NotThatDavid|10.29.08 @ 3:50PM|#

Pre-colonialism, there were more kinds of slavery in Africa than there were tribes and nations (since many of them had one kind of slavery that could be imposed on citizens and another for foreigners). Plantation slavery didn't enter into it, for obvious reasons, but chattel sure as hell did.

|10.29.08 @ 3:51PM|#

...ideological diversity...

This is widely conidered the diversity of ideots in America's news rooms and college class rooms.

Guy Montag|10.29.08 @ 3:52PM|#

Matt,

Saw the redirect, but . . .

And yes, sarcasm aside, I think such actions *do* boost reader confidence. Or, if they indicate a shop with a voting record that would make Fidel Castro blush, then they boost a sense of urgency about ideological diversity. In my dreamworld, I mean.

Is that what it is like in your office every day? The periodic parties are much nicer :)

BDB|10.29.08 @ 3:53PM|#

Some people on here are really projecting stuff into what I wrote. Others didn't even bother to read it.

Guy Montag|10.29.08 @ 3:54PM|#

Is proof of voting different than the rest of the staff going to be a requirement for the new intern?

|10.29.08 @ 3:58PM|#

BDB,

Sorry. Just pointing out the fallacy of conventional wisdom; there is more than enough shame and guilt for all, regardless of pigmentation.

BDB|10.29.08 @ 3:59PM|#

"
Sorry. Just pointing out the fallacy of conventional wisdom; there is more than enough shame and guilt for all, regardless of pigmentation."

I agree there.

rap|10.29.08 @ 4:09PM|#

If for some reason Obama drops out of the race, does Biden automatically become the presidential candidate?

|10.29.08 @ 4:25PM|#

The McCain campaign featured Palin as a major - some would say the central - element of its media effort for two months, while the Obama camp didn't do the same with Biden.

So the press pays more attention to her.

Ever reliable spin from joe.

Seriously, WTF difference does that make? They're both running for the same office; shouldn't they get the same scrutiny regardless of how their campaign tries to position them? Would we give, oh, say, Tony Rezko for VP a pass if the Obama campaign hadn't made any kind of big deal about his selection?

Talking is not his best thing.

At least, I hope not.

Too bad joe wasn't this forgiving of Bush's ineloquence, no?

Biden was sold as shoring up Obama's supposed "foreign policy" weaknesses.

And he repays the favor by predicting that Obama is going to be a crisis magnet, and is probably not going to make us happy with his crisis management.

Massachusetts invented America. Virginia invented slavery. Guess who won?

Er, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, just to pick two off the top of my head, were Virginians. It was a team effort. Not to mention that Massachusetts was a slave state during the Revolutionary War.

|10.29.08 @ 4:32PM|#

Dana Milbank is reporting this now because he thinks the election is over. He wants to be able to say "See? I said something negative about Biden before the election. It wasn't all about me claiming someone said "Kill him!" during a Palin speech!"

Expect more of this for the last week if the polls don't change before then. CNN's Campbell Brown, Washington Post, NYT, Politico, and even Karen Tumulty at Time have new articles today mildly critical of Biden and Obama that have people saying "It's about time!"

What they're now reporting isn't even new. It's just that they feel safe now so they're trying to salvage a bit of credibility.

Elemenope|10.29.08 @ 4:35PM|#

Biden is a Quayle.

i.e. Deterrent to the notion that someone might shoot Obama.

alan|10.29.08 @ 4:48PM|#

Massachusetts invented America. Virginia invented slavery. Guess who won?

I see your hand and raise with Constitutional Republic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_Constitutions_of_Carolina

prefer cash.

|10.29.08 @ 4:58PM|#

Ever reliable spin from joe.

So, which part isn't true?

1. The McCain campaign featured Palin as an important part of its media efforts?

2. The Obama campaign featured Biden as an important part of their media efforts, comparable to Palin?

3. Press coverage follows media strategies?

C'mon, RC, if what I wrote is spin, there should be something misleading or inaccurate in it. So, just go ahead and shout it out. Any time you feel like it. Or maybe you're just full of crap, and throwing a tantrum.

Seriously, WTF difference does that make? They're both running for the same office; shouldn't they get the same scrutiny regardless of how their campaign tries to position them? Yes, and absent the McCain campaign's big push to put Palin out front, she probably would have gotten about the same amount of attention as Biden. They are just the running mates, you know.

Too bad joe wasn't this forgiving of Bush's ineloquence, no? Joe Biden's very eloquent. He doesn't yammer about putting food on your family, or being misunderestimated, or otherwise fight the good fight against the English language in the face of impossible odds. He just goes off message, inconveniently.

Which is just the opposite of Bush, who is strictly on message all the time, but who can't seem to string an intelligent thought together. Most people, even most of your fellow Republicans, have come to ackowledge this fact.

Massachusetts invented abolitionism.

|10.29.08 @ 5:05PM|#

Joe,

Is there any Democrat out there you won't defend? Biden is dumber than a post and an embarassment. Love her or hate her at least the base loves Palin. Who loves Biden besides you? No one. He did nothing for the ticket and is so bad on the trail they are having to hide him from the press and limit his speeches. He is everything people say Palin is only he has 29 years of experience on the national stage and still sucks. Do you really think the Obama people are happy with the "he is going to be tested" comments or any other of the assine things he has said in the last month?

|10.29.08 @ 5:07PM|#

"He just goes off message, inconveniently."

That is funniest thing you have ever posted on here Joe.

|10.29.08 @ 5:09PM|#

Frankly, in terms of innate common sense I think Palin has a couple of standard deviations on Biden.

|10.29.08 @ 5:15PM|#

Biden is good at one thing; bullshiting when he doesn't know anything about what is speaking. He is great at sounding smart when the substance of his words are meaningless. In short, he is one hell of a Senator.

|10.29.08 @ 5:21PM|#

John,

True. He is also pretty good at intimidating questioners when their questions are discomfiting to Biden. Well, that and plagiarizing the thoughts and words of others.

MJ|10.29.08 @ 10:09PM|#

Joe Biden's very eloquent. He doesn't yammer about putting food on your family, or being misunderestimated, or otherwise fight the good fight against the English language in the face of impossible odds."

Yep, Biden not prone malaprops, he is able to not miss a beat when pontificating on stuff that he is a complete ignoramus on or is simply lying through his teeth about (like his answer on the relationship of the office of the VP and the legislative branch).

This is not an admirable quality.

|10.29.08 @ 10:18PM|#

John, you are a delusional moron.

Let's go to the tape:

joe | October 29, 2008, 3:32pm | #

Talking is not his best thing.

At least, I hope not.

This is loving him?

Oh, I know, it must be the part where I complained about him going off message, inconveniently.

You, moron, are incapable of comprehending any written you come across beyond whether it is or is not the talking points you've decided to repeat from your wingnut web sites.

You've rented out your brain to the Republican Party, to the point that the only thing you're capable of doing is barking out their talking points.

What the holy fuck does how much the base loves Sarah Palin have to do with me, or anything I've written, or defending Joe Biden?

How exactly in your withered little brain did you come to think that bringing up Biden's "tested" remarks was some sort of a rebuttal to "He goes off-message, inconveniently," as if it was something to throw in my face?

We get it, John: Joe Biden's a Democrat. Hatesssessssss the Democratssssss you doessssss. If you're going to address me, try to have some plausible relationship to a point, or rational thought process. You know, a little something for the pointless partisan shilling to form itself around.

|10.29.08 @ 10:23PM|#

See, look at MJ. A point, a line of reasoning, the whole deal.

MJ,

Biden's biggest gaffe's - Washington edition - seem to be statements that are unequivocally true, but inconvenient.

For example, "Maybe Hillary would have been a better choice." I think he was right about that. "They're going to test the new president." Yep. I don't think he sounds like an ignoramus, I think he sounds right. You disagree? You don't think either of those statements is plausible?

I think they're just unpleasant truths. Biden has a problem with keeping his mouth shut, but he seems to know what he's talking about.

|10.29.08 @ 10:30PM|#

It's creepy the way John needs to love politicians..

"People LOVE Sarah Palin. Nobody loves Joe Biden. Ha ha ha ha ha!"

Weird.

MJ|10.30.08 @ 7:49AM|#

joe,

I was speaking more of Biden's propensity to make stuff up on the fly which sounds plausible in the moment, but when you think about later makes no sense or is just factually wrong.

The fact that he also has no internal editor and says stuff that he actually believes but should not say in public is also a problem, for Obama.

Frankly, I have never found Hilary to be that impressive, though she is more disciplined than Biden. Of course, Biden is bound to be more loyal. And yes what Biden said about a potential foreign policy crisis is plausible, infact its when of the best arguments against putting such an inexperienced man with a such a weak approach to foreign policy in the Presidency. With what Biden implied about Obama's response to such a crisis I suspect will cause a huge case of buyer's remorse in the extreme pacifist left.

Guy Montag|10.30.08 @ 8:59AM|#

Matt,

Do you have a copy of the 'secret' tape of Sen. Obama toasting a PLO mouthpiece from your LA Times days? If so, why aren't you guys playing it on ReasonTV? If not has there been a story about it in reason yet?

Maybe you just had not heard of this item yet and as soon as you do Dave Weigel will get the assignment.

|10.30.08 @ 11:53AM|#

MJ,

The fact that he also has no internal editor and says stuff that he actually believes but should not say in public is also a problem, for Obama.

I agree. That's why I called it "inconvenient."

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