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The Untrustworthy Arab
The novelist Khaled Hosseini, an American of Afghan origin, has written a commentary for the Washington Post condemning the reaction of the Republican candidates when responding to those who use Barack Obama's middle name, Hussein, as a term of abuse. He observes:
Never mind that such jeers are deeply offensive to millions of peaceful, law-abiding Muslim Americans who must bear the unveiled charge, made by some supporters of Sen. John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin, that Obama's middle name makes him someone to distrust - and, judging by some of the crowd reactions at these rallies, someone to persecute or even kill. As a secular Muslim, I too was offended. Obama's middle name differs from my last name by only two vowels. Does the McCain-Palin campaign view me as a pariah too? Do McCain and Palin think there's something wrong with my name?
But never mind any of that.
The real affront is the lack of firm response from either McCain or Palin. Neither has had the moral courage, when taking the stage, to grasp the microphone, turn to the presenter and, right then and there, denounce the use of Obama's middle name as an insult. Instead, they have simply delivered their stump speeches, lacing into Obama as if nothing out-of-bounds had just happened.
The commentary came amid reports of mounting rage among Republican voters at the likely victory of the Democratic candidate in November, with Obama's alleged origins frequently being used against him. At a rally in Minnesota this week, for example, one woman told John McCain: "I don't trust Obama. I have read about him and he's an Arab." McCain responded by saying, "No ma'am, no ma'am. He's a decent family man... [a] citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues. That's what this campaign is all about."
Hossein's point is valid. McCain was trying to be decent, but you would have expected him to answer in a million different ways than the way he did, instead of just focusing on Obama's personal qualities. He could have, first of all, corrected the woman's inaccuracy, the confusion of one fallacy (that Obama is an Arab) with another (that he is a Muslim), before adding: "So what?" Substitute the name of most other ethnic groups for the word "Arab", and the candidate would have been - and quite legitimately so - apoplectic with rage at the bigotry on display. But denouncing someone because he or she is an "Arab" or a "Muslim" all too often seems fair game in American popular political discourse, with little visible backlash.
And if it's not fair game, then it would be useful to see the country's prominent politicians affirm that with a bit more conviction.
Ironic|10.11.08 @ 8:40AM|#
I do remember at least one time when McCain DID denounce someone using his middle name in a negative way. It was at an event in Southern Ohio and a local radio talk show host from Cincinnati used the term in a sneering way and McCain denounced it. I am no fan of McCain but this is not a fair criticism. McCain is many things but an anti-Arab bigot is not one of them. By the way, I agree with anon about secular Muslim being an oxymoron. One can be a secular Arab; I have met a few, but not a secular Muslim. Muslim refers to a person's religion. It is not an equivalent of the term "Jew" which can either refer to a person's religion or ethnicity. Muslim refers to religion. It never refers to ethnicity.
Mad Max|10.11.08 @ 8:45AM|#
"He could have, first of all, corrected the woman's inaccuracy,
the confusion of one fallacy (that Obama is an Arab) with another
(that he is a Muslim), before adding: 'So what?'"
Nixon would have said, "who cares that he is an Arab Muslim? That
is a matter between Obama and his God, or Allah." Thus invoking the
slur, under the guise of disavowing it.
Mad Max|10.11.08 @ 8:47AM|#
"Some say that Barack Hussein Obama is a crypto-Muslim hippie trying to turn this country over to dope-smoking turban-wearers. I do not endorse that unfair, politically-inspired attack."
|10.11.08 @ 8:47AM|#
Muslim refers to religion. It never refers to
ethnicity.
But it may refer to culture. I don't believe in God, but most of my
moral views are at least genetically informed by the
Judeo-Christian culture in which I grew up. Hosseini may not be a
practicing Muslim, but he probably still carries a lot of values
from the Muslim culture in which he was raised.
Affirmative Action|10.11.08 @ 8:59AM|#
This is wrong.
Racism should only be accepted as part of a government program.
WaPo|10.11.08 @ 9:00AM|#
Next up: we interview a Holocaust survivor on about the
insensitivity of those "BUSH=HITLER" posters in our own
newsroom.
Haha! Just kidding!
|10.11.08 @ 9:01AM|#
American VOTERS are mad as HELL at MSM Obama cronies! Like CNN
& MSNBC! And is causing the outrage against Obama. MSM is no
longer helping their candidate, because they are openly in the bag
for Obama, voters are taking that extreme anger out on Obama, the
risk you take. MSM, CNN have jeopardized the security of the
American people by deliberating continuing to openly hide serious
facts and associations of Obama. HOW DARE YOU jeopardize our great
but troubled country? Yes Voters are getting extremely angry at
Obama, he continues to lie and refuses to answer questions that
EVERY person running for leader of the free world would have to
answer. Obama keeps reaching back to Chicago political past for
policy advisers, and pulling one despicable, vile, and even evil
"rabbit" after another out of his hat. The list of Obama's radical
associations is long and it keeps getting longer. Some are now
well-known, but many are not.
VOTERS-STAND UP FOR YOUR COUNTRY, DO NOT LET A TABLIOD CABLE NEWS
LIKE CNN and MSNBC decide OUR President!
DEMAND OBAMA ADDRESS THESE SERIOUS RADICAL TERRORIST CONNECTIONS!
TODAY!
(Bloomberg) -- Nigerian Stock Exchange Chief Exec Ofc Ndi
Okereke-Onyiuke being investigated holding a fund-raising event for
U.S. presidential candidate Obama, Agence France-Press reported
U.S. electoral laws forbid donations from foreigners to electoral
campaigns. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ0cq4Nytu8
(World News)
23 years at TUCC with Jeremiah Wright and James Meeks. Racist
sermons on You tube.
He chose the most radical church in the country; Obama chooses to
immerse himself and his daughters in hard-core ideological
radicalism. Never before has this country considered such a radical
leftist for its chief executive.
Michael Pfleger and his hateful and race-hating ramblings, Obama
met while carrying out his own radical social activism as community
organizer at ACORN, (radical organization) now under Federal
investigation for Voter fraud in helping Obama. No one believed he
won the caucuses, now we know why. WASHINGTON: RNC filed a
complaint with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) against the
Obama for an America campaign acceptance of foreign national and
excessive contributions. The Obama campaign has failed to comply
with federal campaign finance law in its fundraising.
Penny Pritzker, heads Obama National Finance Committee was
president of Superior Bank - massively failed, she literally bought
her way out of jail paying $460 MILLION fine; was the very
epicenter of subprime loan scandal" that has come to eat this
nation's financial system alive.
Fannie Mae CEO Jim Johnson, Obama camp advisor and headed Obamas
vice presidential selection committee, discovered he benefited from
sweetheart loans from subprime king Countrywide and was
fired.
Tony Rezko certainly and his federal indictments and financial
dealing with Obamas of course and William Ayers, US terrorist
bomber, Obama-co-lecturer, fellow board member, neighbor, and
friend.
Terrorist William Ayers
Communist Frank Marshall Davis, obama mentor; Saul Alinsky and
Gerald Kellman (Kellman's Woods Fund is how Obama hooked up and
began his long relationship with Ayers.
Chicago lawyer Mazen Asbahi, Obama camp national coord for Muslim
affairs also stepped down after news about his stint on the fund's
board - which includes fundamentalist imam - prompting The Wall
Street Journal inquiries about relationship with the Muslim
Brotherhood and his long personal relationship with Hamas
Jamal.
Obama desperately needs voters to forget hes the son of a Muslim
father who served an incredibly brutal and corrupt Kenyan
government; to forget he attended a madrassa in Indonesia and
practiced Islam; forget that he campaigned in Kenya on behalf of
Raila Odinga, who relied upon chaos, corruption, and violence in
his campaign; numerous associations with radical Muslims; forget
the photographs of Obama in traditional Muslim clothes, hanging
with Muslim radicals such as Mazen Asbahi and anti-Semite Rashid
Khalidi.
The mainstream media has frankly put the security of our great
country at risk with an Obama coronation media like CNN & MSNBC
is the only way Obama managed to steal the Dem nom. It's extremely
concerning that so many Americans could care less about who their
candidate really is?? Simply amazing and frankly scary.
www.atlah.org/broadcast/ndnr07-28-08.html
www.dontvoteobama.net
|10.11.08 @ 9:01AM|#
CNN & MSNBC PLEASE EXPLAIN TO AMERICAN PUBLIC! WHY ITS
RACIST WHEN WHITE VOTERS DO NOT AGREE OR SUPPORT THE INEXPERIENCED
MEDIA MADE OBAMA, BUT IT'S NOT RACISM WHEN 90% PLUS BLACK VOTERS
ARE ONLY SUPPORTING THE BLACK CANDIDATE? LIKE OPRAH ETC…
For a look into the future, just listen to Chris Rock preaching in
his show, "If Obama wins, the very next day, DON'T EXPECT BLACKS TO
WORK ANYMORE WHITIES!!! That includes OBAMA!!!!
Gee|10.11.08 @ 9:04AM|#
Neither has had the moral courage, when taking the stage, to
grasp the microphone, turn to the presenter and, right then and
there, denounce the use of Obama's middle name as an
insult.
Hasn't McCain very explicitly done so on several occasions?
Didn't Obama sit in front of a racist pastor for decades? I bet
Hosseini isn't asking about that.
jkp|10.11.08 @ 9:12AM|#
Whatever. I don't seem to recall this outrage when the alleged
victim was "J. Danforth Quayle".
BHO's name is his name. Alas, it is an old political trick to take
advantage of an opponent's unfortunate name.
Of course, the fact that JMC's campaign is reduced to this sort of
pettiness indicates that he's going to lose -- and lose big. But, I
expect better of REASON than slavishly following the trivial
bellyaching of the politically correct classes.
It is also my belief that Matt Welch should be fired.
|10.11.08 @ 9:15AM|#
Someone wrote: "23 years at TUCC with Jeremiah Wright...He chose the most radical church in the country." That church was involved i9n huge poutreqach programs to help the poor. Obama joined AFTER getting involved in those outreach programs. I sat on orlando's Human Crisis Council with a radical and with Benny Hinn's people --on You Tube you can see what Benny Hinn does that I don't agree with. But the Human Crisis Council did so many wonderful things for the poor and homeless -- in Chicago, the radical churches and former radicals are involved with most of the charities, for whatever reason. Should i have NOT been on the Human Crisis Council because Beny Hinn had people there? And even a Marxist, at one point? You can;t choose who is on a committee, there is often no choice. New blood into these committees clean them up. read Obama's book. this is the first year I've ever been writing, trying to stop some of the poor reasoning going on here.
|10.11.08 @ 9:19AM|#
I suggest a new term in the lexicon.
"Crackers" will now come in two forms. "Fried crackers" will refer
to the traditional variety - southern US based racists with a high
affinity for battered, oil-cooked foods. "Baked crackers" will
refer to the non-regional collective of people who loathe persons
of countries predominated by desert climes and the Muslim
religion.
|10.11.08 @ 9:20AM|#
Good god. Now people can't even call him by his damn name unless
it's said in a tone implying reverie, humbleness, and worshipful
manner.
He's the one who changed his name to something more fitting with
who he wanted to be.
Bite me, Barack Hussein Obama. I'll call you whatever the fuck I
want to, you lying socialist creep.
|10.11.08 @ 9:27AM|#
He's the one who changed his name to something more fitting
with who he wanted to be.
So the proper translation of Hussein is lying socialist creep.
Thanks.
|10.11.08 @ 9:28AM|#
I suspect a lot of these very vocal and visible people at
McCain's rallies lately are plants paid off by the most lowly of
the Obama crowd. The ones so lowly that even Obama wouldn't own up
to.
Oh wait - he doesn't own up to anyone he knows.
ktc2|10.11.08 @ 9:29AM|#
Wow! Somebody opened the moron flood gates.
Did it over occur to any of you right wing raving lunatics that the
MSM doesn't carry those stories (like the ones listed above)
because there simply isn't sufficient evidence to effectively link
them to the person?
It's okay. You guys just keep living in that fundy lunatic echo
chamber, your collective 15 minutes is up.
O Rly|10.11.08 @ 9:29AM|#
But denouncing someone because he or she is an "Arab" or a
"Muslim" all too often seems fair game in American popular
political discourse, with little visible backlash.
Oh PLEASE. Name one person who was ever publicly denounced for
being Arab.
As for "Muslim," boohoo. Christians get denounced all the time
(Barack himself said they cling to religion because they're
bitter). Scientologists, Mormons, etc, all get crticized. Jews are
unique because they are also considered a race and suffered the
Holocaust -- oh, and a few hundred million Arabs still
want to destroy their country.
|10.11.08 @ 9:30AM|#
"So the proper translation of Hussein is lying socialist
creep. Thanks."
No, that's just my personal opinion of him based on his track
record. Geez, we are still able to have our own opinions, aren't
we? I mean, the bastard hasn't been inaugurated yet, has he?
Yah|10.11.08 @ 9:30AM|#
That church was involved i9n huge poutreqach programs to
help the poor. Obama joined AFTER getting involved in those
outreach programs.
So is Hizbollah.
Yes Indeed|10.11.08 @ 9:33AM|#
. Should i have NOT been on the Human Crisis Council because
Beny Hinn had people there? And even a Marxist, at one point? You
can;t choose who is on a committee, there is often no choice. New
blood into these committees clean them up.
See, if enough good people join Al Qaeda, maybe they can do more
community outreach and less 9/11.
I think we have to try.
-|10.11.08 @ 9:35AM|#
Anyone who defends that church as being anything remotely and honestly humanitarian has got to be some leftist lunatic hopping up and down like some damn spastic jumping bean anytime someone dares to criticize anything Obama.
|10.11.08 @ 9:36AM|#
"So Art, what is it that he was trying to "be" by changing
his name?"
You'll have to ask him that. Or read his book or something.
|10.11.08 @ 9:37AM|#
The comments to the effect that McCain ought to have added to a
rebuttal about Obama being either Arab or Muslim a "so what" clause
are good points.
But McCain alone shouldn't bear that burden. Obama has never made
the "so what" point either. I was in a rally in Nevada when the
point came up, and he just quietly reaffirmed "I am a Christian,"
implicitly reinforcing the idea that being a Muslim would be
untenable in a presidential candidate.
I suppose one has to choose one's battles, but this is one of the
few times when I've felt Obama's integrity has faltered.
Dan Rather|10.11.08 @ 9:38AM|#
"the MSM doesn't carry those stories (like the ones listed
above) because there simply isn't sufficient evidence to
effectively link them to the person?"
Exactly.
Now, if you had some memos, that would be different.
Potts|10.11.08 @ 9:41AM|#
Give me a god damned break - If Obama's middle name was Gerald,
nobody would ever use it. When you hear the drooling class say
"Hussein," you can't deny that the intention is for the listener to
associate Obama with "teh scary Muslims."
The right has sunken into such a low, disgusting populism,
pandering to the lowest common denominator and playing to people's
basest fears. People should be outraged that after the last 8 years
the GOP hasn't learned something and brought forth a real maverick
candidacy offering constructive, well reasoned ideas.
That being said, I somewhat agree with Eric that Obama should be
making the "so what" point a little more effectively.
|10.11.08 @ 9:49AM|#
Now people can't even call him by his damn name
You'll have to ask him that.
You implied that you knew the reason he changed his name, but
don't. And yet you justify this as a basis to invoke the need to
use his middle name repetitively not withstanding the uncommon
nature of doing so. Do you stand by the notion that this isn't
being done to "scare" the uninformed? Or should I just put you in
the "baked" category?
Uncle Bob|10.11.08 @ 9:49AM|#
"People should be outraged that after the last 8 years the
GOP hasn't learned something and brought forth a real maverick
candidacy offering constructive, well reasoned ideas."
Most people are, and they probably don't like McCain anymore than
Bush. But it's not as though they're falling for the Obama idolatry
either, and actually some of us are quite sickened by the blind
ignorance of people so desperate to vote democrat just because they
hate Bush.
So just because someone isn't worshiping the new messiah, doesn't
mean they're a GOP worshiper either.
This IS a libertarian forum, after all.
|10.11.08 @ 9:51AM|#
Pandering to mouth-breathing lunatic fringe has unintended
consequences.
Well, I never...
|10.11.08 @ 9:52AM|#
McCain is sadly playing to all this with his "how much do you
REALLY know about Barak Obama" campaign ads and statements. It's a
rather blatant play on this kind of ignorance. His campaign is
really sad. One minute he is shamelessly aping Obama's ("CHANGE is
Coming") the next minute he's pandering to and encouraging morons
who think Obama is a "secret Muslim radical."
"I was in a rally in Nevada when the point came up, and he just
quietly reaffirmed "I am a Christian," implicitly reinforcing the
idea that being a Muslim would be untenable in a presidential
candidate."
Wow, there's a less nefarious way to read this isn't it? As he's
been a Christian for a long time maybe he was, well, simply
professing his faith...
However, as I've said many times before, what were the Dems
thinking nominating a guy with that name?
Potts|10.11.08 @ 9:56AM|#
So just because someone isn't worshiping the new messiah,
doesn't mean they're a GOP worshiper either.
I agree. And just because someone thinks the GOP is lost in the
darkness and has been for years, doesn't mean they're now a die
hard Democrat.
|10.11.08 @ 9:57AM|#
"Christians get denounced all the time (Barack himself said they
cling to religion because they're bitter)."
He did? He said CHRISTIANS cling to their religion because they're
bitter. That's funny, because I have heard this quote where he is
explaining why SMALL TOWN PEOPLE in PA and the Midwest "cling to
guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or
anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to
explain their frustrations." But surely you didn't mean that as
that's so different as to be retarded...
Djyrn|10.11.08 @ 9:57AM|#
I respect McCain for standing up against the non-sense.
I do think it's unfair to expect McCain to take the next step
suggested. He's trying to win, calling his audience a bunch of
bigots isn't gonna help.
|10.11.08 @ 9:58AM|#
"You implied that you knew the reason he changed his name,
but don't. And yet you justify this as a basis to invoke the need
to use his middle name repetitively not withstanding the uncommon
nature of doing so."
No, Tbone, I gave my opinion and belief that people can call him by
his name if they want to. I can form an opinion of my own with
whatever information I've read over the past two years of the Obama
campaign. I wasn't stating something as a known public fact. I was
just saying that I think he's full of shit. I don't have to provide
sources for my personal opinion.
I kind of think you're full of shit too, and I don't have any
sources to back that up. However, so far in this country, personal
opinions don't require documented sources, but simply our own free
will.
|10.11.08 @ 10:11AM|#
Art, we agree.
You are free to use (or acknowledge that people can use) Senator
Obama's middle name repetitively. I am free to think those who do
are racially or politically motivated.
I don't think you are full of shit, I think - based on what you
wrote - you support these racial or political motivations. You are
free to do so - I am free to call you out on it.
|10.11.08 @ 10:12AM|#
"McCain responded by saying, 'No ma'am, no ma'am. He's a
decent family man... [a] citizen that I just happen to have
disagreements with on fundamental issues. That's what this campaign
is all about.'"
This response is sufficient. It's not McCain's job to go out and
praise Obama. The lady was wrong, and McCain said, "No ma'am" and
even followed up with "he's a decent family man". Is McCain
supposed to start delivering lectures about genealogy now?
|10.11.08 @ 10:12AM|#
"However, so far in this country, personal opinions don't
require documented sources, but simply our own free will."
You're right Art, a person can hold a strong opinion that is based
on no articulable evidence or reason in this country. God Bless
America, you tell 'em! lol
ed|10.11.08 @ 10:13AM|#
such jeers are deeply offensive to millions of peaceful,
law-abiding Muslim Americans
Cry me a river. The irony here is breathtaking: An individual
(McCain) is condemned for the actions of a bigoted few? A whole
subculture is "offended" because a couple of crackpots make fools
of themselves at a political rally? Who made Hosseini the spokesman
for those millions of Muslim Americans? Are they a rigid,
like-minded tribe? Why, that's almost...racist!
|10.11.08 @ 10:16AM|#
McCain did right by saying "no ma'am and such."
Young's point I think is that we should spend gobs of money and
time to bomb uppity Arabs into submission until they agree with us
on Israel and other of our foriegn policy interests.
Oh, that's actually a point from some other of his articles (I
keed, I keed). In this post his point seems to be that it would be
nice if someone would point out that while Obama is not a Muslim
it's "not that there is anything wrong with that" if he were. And
that is true to.
|10.11.08 @ 10:19AM|#
Well, Mr. Nice Guy, when you list every single thing you've
read, seen, and heard that forms your opinions, then I'll list
mine.
I've got 45 years on me, though. Gonna take a while.
Ironic|10.11.08 @ 10:19AM|#
"Hosseini may not be a practicing Muslim, but he probably still
carries a lot of values from the Muslim culture in which he was
raised."
So Hugh, could I call you a "Secular Southern Baptist?" or a
"Secular Lutheran"? How about a "Secular Mormon" or "Secular Roman
Catholic"? I suppose once could add "liberal" to the front of any
of those denominations but that is not the same as secular. Secular
means "not pertaining to or connected with religion" which would be
like adding the prefix "un" to the front of any religion.
|10.11.08 @ 10:22AM|#
ed
That's great, I mean it's a special feat of mental and logical
gymnastics you've just hit (score: 9.4): it's the people who point
out that implying there is something nefarious about being a Muslim
is bound to give offense to Muslims that are the REAL racists
because they are making a generalization about Muslims (namely that
they will be offended by someone saying being a Muslim is
nefarious).
Bravo buddy, that takes some amazing twisty logic and
self-deception...
|10.11.08 @ 10:25AM|#
Art
I just mean it's kinda stupid to get on a blog where people argue
points and state some strong opinion you have and then resort to
"well, I just have this strong opinion and as far as I know I'm
free to have it." Sure, you are, it's just where did you think you
were going with that in, well, a discussion of such points?
Here, I'll do my part: I just have this feeling that conservatives
are evil and full of shit. Don't ask me to argue that any further,
it's just how I take 'em after 38 years of living on Planet
Earth...
|10.11.08 @ 10:27AM|#
You know who else are real racists, those who back in the 1950's
and 60's who said that segregation is insulting to blacks. I mean,
how can they speak for all blacks? I mean, "Are they a rigid,
like-minded tribe?" How racist!
What a trip!
|10.11.08 @ 10:28AM|#
Alas, group identitification to garner votes is political
reality. It works to some extent, but I think the smaller the
electorate the better it works. 3 years ago in the mayoral election
here in Detroit, something similar occurred.
From earliy in the year, in a Hit & Run thread titled thread
titled Bill
Cunningham Is Mad as Hell at John McCain, and He's Not Gonna Take
It Anymore I posted this.
|10.11.08 @ 10:31AM|#
So... Saturday morning is Right Wing Fringe time?
Do they get up early, or get in really late from Friday night?
|10.11.08 @ 10:32AM|#
If Obama really didn't like his middle name, he could easily
have had it legally changed anytime in the last couple of decades
after he reached majority. I mean, he was in low-level politics
long enough that he could have done this under the radar, and you'd
think an intelligent man like him would have been pondering higher
office and thinking about whether that middle name might be a
political liability. Hell, you'd think that before he even pulled
papers to first run for elected office he should have given serious
consideration to a name change if he didn't want to embrace it. So,
hell, he's chosen this path, and has to live with the consequences.
And obviously, WAY too late in the campaign to change names now --
that would only ignite the controversy and give it legs.
That said, McCain seems to be fanning these flames a bit, and at
the very least not trying to rein in the more obnoxious elements of
the Republican party, and in fact he probably perceives this racism
as a net vote-getter.
Curious to hear ali's take on this, since he apparently is now
frequenting this site again. Welcome back, ali!
Michael Jackson|10.11.08 @ 10:38AM|#
If Obama really didn't like his middle name
And if he didn't like his skin color, he could just change that,
too - like I did.
BDB|10.11.08 @ 10:38AM|#
"
If Obama really didn't like his middle name, he could easily have
had it legally changed anytime in the last couple of decades after
he reached majority."
And then they would have said SEE? SEE? HE IS TRYIN GTO HIDE HIS
TRUE ORIGINS! HE *IS* A MUSLIM!
Come on, he can't win with these nuts.
|10.11.08 @ 10:39AM|#
Here, I'll do my part: I just have this feeling that
conservatives are evil and full of shit.
Well, I'll do my part in response, MNG -- I know a lot of
wonderful, kind, incredibly great human beings who are
conservatives. I'm sorry to hear that you are hurting yourself by
lugging around this unjustified, obnoxious prejudice, and hope
you'll free yourself of it someday.
Not saying that all conservatives are good people -- plenty of
conservative asshats, plenty of liberal asshats, even some
libertarian asshats. Asshatdom is not something restricted to a
particular ideology.
|10.11.08 @ 10:43AM|#
Remember when the wingnuts used to pat themselves on the back
and assert that they, and only they, think that democracy is
perfectly consistent with Arab and Muslim culture?
And accuse everybody else of being racists, who thought that
Muslims and Arabs weren't ready for democracy?
Gee, my old DeSalle ran great.
Those were the daaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyys!
BDB|10.11.08 @ 10:44AM|#
Yeah, but then on the other hand they'd write racist stereotypes
about Arabs and Muslims while wanting to spread "democracy" at the
same time.
I never did work out that particular contradiction in their
rhetoric.
|10.11.08 @ 10:47AM|#
Prole-I was just showing Art how silly it is to get on a
discussion board, give a strong opinion on a point, and then say
"well hell it's not like I have some articulable point I just feel
strongly this way through my personal experience."
As to conservatives, some of my best friends are conservatives :).
I will say most I know have a mean streak (kind of a social darwin
thing) going on, but plenty are not asshats. I mean, I disagree
with you on a lot and you're not, in my opinion, an asshat.
"Mr. Nice Guy: "Spokesman for a guilty generation.""
No ed not much guilt here, though comparatively I imagine more than
you might have as from your comments I imagine guilt,
self-examination, or seeing the world apart from the stance of
someone from a different tribe than yours are something you are in
fact not bothered with much.
|10.11.08 @ 10:49AM|#
And then they would have said SEE? SEE? HE IS TRYIN GTO HIDE
HIS TRUE ORIGINS! HE *IS* A MUSLIM!
Come on, he can't win with these nuts.
He can't win with SOME -- perhaps most -- of these nuts. But, there
are plenty of people at the margins who would be less inclined to
be suspicious of Obama if he had chosen to change his middle name
to something blander like "Marcus".
Politics is generally won at the margins, and so are you really
saying that if Obama had changed his middle name to something
blander prior to entering politics, that he wouldn't have perhaps
an additional 0.1% or 0.3% or whatever of the popular vote?
Are you really saying that he didn't hurt his presidential campaign
by not choosing to change his middle name a while ago? That there
aren't ANY people on the margin for whom this was the tipping
point, and that these people don't substantially outnumber the
Muslims and hipsters and whatnot for whom his middle name tipped it
the other way, to a 'yes' vote? Seriously? Whisky Tango
Foxtrot?
BDB|10.11.08 @ 10:50AM|#
Prolefeed--
He would have been accused of being "dishonest" and "covering up"
his "Muslim origins".
Remember the birth certificate thing? And that wasn't even
real.
|10.11.08 @ 10:51AM|#
"Wow, there's a less nefarious way to read this isn't it? As
he's been a Christian for a long time maybe he was, well, simply
professing his faith..."
Of course he is, but Obama wasn't answering a question about his
religious beliefs, he was rebutting a slur. That membership in the
muslim faith IS a slur to so many people in this country is what
bothers me, and I think Obama could have addressed that by saying
"While I'm not Muslim, I think this devisive attack is disgusting
for its obvious xenophobia," or something along those lines.
Similarly, McCain's response (which I do think was laudable, as far
as it went) to the claim that Obama is an Arab was "No, he's a
decent family man."
Imagine for a moment that you are a decent, muslim family man.
Might you not take issue with this exchange?
|10.11.08 @ 10:51AM|#
Pat Buchanan, in his autobiography, wrote (with come correctness
I think) that for a liberal racial discrimination is the worst sin
in the world. They look for it all the time and really see it as
the worst thing in the world. If only he would have added that to a
conservative it's a thing that, while if brought to their attention
they will make some showing of disapproval, is not something they
spend much time worrying about.
It seems to me that most of the human race rightly exists between
these two extremes.
William the Conqueror|10.11.08 @ 10:51AM|#
Democracy will not work in Anglo-Saxon society. They are used to absolute monarchies and that is the only type of society that they could live in. It would be wrong of us to try to push democracy on these people. Monarchy is all they have ever known and all that will work with their culture.
ed|10.11.08 @ 10:52AM|#
A famous philosopher (my mother) once told me: "Sticks and stones may break your bones, but names can never harm you." I think she stole that from Aristotle. Anyway, to put this in terms even MNG can understand, it takes the sanction of the intended victim for an insult to be effective. If an person thinks of himself as a member of a group or gang or tribe instead of as an individual, he sets himself up for abuse. Yes, to identify yourself as a Muslim-American or an Irish-American or an Italian-American is to engage in the same primitive bigotry as your detractors.
|10.11.08 @ 10:54AM|#
prole
I agree with you that a candidate without BO's name is a stronger
candidate. I've argued that at length here. But that is one
question. Another is, are'nt any persons who would hold the man's
mere name against him cretins of the first order? I mean, what's
troubling is that I have not seen you or any of the other
conservatives come out and say this.
It's like when you see someone pick on a drunk. I guess one
response would be "well if that guy wouldn't drink he would not get
picked on." But another, and better one imo, would be "man, that
guy picking on that drunk is a dick."
|10.11.08 @ 10:57AM|#
ed
This is what I'm talking about.
According to your thought the guy who says "all blacks are
worthless ni**ers" and the black guy who says "as a black man I'm
offended by that" are equally bigots. And that is as stupid as the
day is long and you know that. You're just weaseling now.
|10.11.08 @ 10:58AM|#
prole
Yes I read quite a bit of Pat Buchanan. I voted for him for
President (and not accidently like those folks in FL). So I can
live with a conservative here or there...
|10.11.08 @ 11:00AM|#
prolefeed's convinced me.
It would have been both easy and politically smart for Barack Obama
to change his middle name to make him appear more acceptable to
racial paranoids as he sought political office.
But he didn't. He didn't change who we was, he didn't turn his back
on the name his mother gave him. I think that speaks well of the
man.
Mr. Nice Guy,
Lacking personal experience with things like compassion,
self-reflection, or a sense of fairness, a certain breed of
conservative is confused by demonstrations of such things by other
people. Searching their own experiences for analogous experiences,
the closest one they hit upon is guilt.
Being accused of guilt, like being accused of hating white people,
is a badge of honor. It means you're doing something right.
I was frequently accused of both by the roommate who told me that
people like him were going to rise up against the niggers, the
queers, the Jews, and "the people like you."
|10.11.08 @ 11:04AM|#
I mean, I disagree with you on a lot and you're not, in my
opinion, an asshat.
Thanks for clarifying that you were using a bit of hyperbole, MNG.
And you're not an asshat, either, though I also take exception to
many of your political views. We're gonna have to cordially
disagree until you have a series of epiphanies and get a better
political philosophy. (I keed!) :o)
FWIW, I'm a right-libertarian, not a conservative, unless you think
being fiscally conservative isn't part of being a libertarian. I
could have sworn that being 100% on economic freedom helped move
one into the libertarian sector of the Nolan chart. :o)
And, I'm pretty sure that being in favor of legalizing all drugs
and prostitution, reigning in all the wiretapping and domestic
spying, voting for Bob Barr, and being in fervent opposition to the
Iraq war, etc. ad nauseam isn't what passes for conservatism these
days. It certainly has led to some very awkward silences when I've
voiced these opinions in the presence of my conservative friends,
followed by a hasty, 'but hey, we still like you, prole' sort of
affirmation.
Well, not 'prole', but it would be SO cool if that WAS my nickname
in real life.
|10.11.08 @ 11:04AM|#
Of course he is, but Obama wasn't answering a question about
his religious beliefs, he was rebutting a slur. That membership in
the muslim faith IS a slur to so many people in this country is
what bothers me, and I think Obama could have addressed that by
saying "While I'm not Muslim, I think this devisive attack is
disgusting for its obvious xenophobia," or something along those
lines.
I feel you here, but exactly how many mountains is Barack Obama
required to climb simultaneously?
BDB,
I see TallDave is back with one of his many handles. Well,
he can't very well proclaim his superior faith in Muslim societies'
capacity for reform AND push the "B. HUSSEIN Obama" shtick using
the same handle, now can he?
|10.11.08 @ 11:05AM|#
Anyway, to put this in terms even MNG can understand, it
takes the sanction of the intended victim for an insult to be
effective. If an person thinks of himself as a member of a group or
gang or tribe instead of as an individual, he sets himself up for
abuse.
Yeah, people who are insulted when the word "nigger" is shouted at
them have only themselves to blame.
|10.11.08 @ 11:05AM|#
joe
I agree.
I've given money and canvassed for petitions and wrote many letters
to newspapers and elected officials to fight affirmative action.
I've spoke against it often here.
But minorities are discriminated against and have to face prejudice
in this country all too much. When an honest and apparent case of
this is brought up, to counter by whining about guilt or changing
the subject to the "real" racists is terrible. It shows an
inability to break with one's most obvious self interest and a
disinterest in basic fairness. Sad.
|10.11.08 @ 11:06AM|#
Yes, to identify yourself as a Muslim-American or an Irish-American or an Italian-American is to engage in the same primitive bigotry as your detractors.
Hmmmm...no. In fact, no.
ed|10.11.08 @ 11:08AM|#
Arab: He insulted me!
Ed: How so?
Arab: He called me "Hussein"!
Ed: Isn't that your name?
Arab: Yes.
Ed: So how is it an insult?
Arab: He's implying that I belong to a primitive, violent
religion.
Ed: Do you?
Arab: No.
Ed: So how has he insulted you?
Arab: You're engaging in amazing twisty logic and
self-deception.
Ed: I see. Would you prefer that I called you "David"?
Arab: David! That's a Jew's name!
|10.11.08 @ 11:08AM|#
MNG,
I understand that there are a substantial number of people like
you, who oppose affirmative action for reasons having absolutely
nothing to do with racism or racial grievance, or who are actually
motivated by a desire to fight racism and think taking on
affirmative action is a good way to do it.
I disagree, but I respect where you're coming from.
|10.11.08 @ 11:09AM|#
Yes, to identify yourself as a Muslim-American or an
Irish-American or an Italian-American is to engage in the same
primitive bigotry as your detractors.
What if you identify yourself as an American? Or a Christian? Or a
Southerner?
Bags|10.11.08 @ 11:10AM|#
and "the people like you."
When will people stop persecuting Oompa Loompas? Disgraceful.
BDB|10.11.08 @ 11:10AM|#
I've heard people identify themselves as "Catholic" even though they hardly ever attend Church.
|10.11.08 @ 11:11AM|#
ed,
Bullshit. Way to blame the victim. MNG has it exactly right. The
people who worry abpout his names are douchenozzles.
Ironic|10.11.08 @ 11:11AM|#
"(and not accidently like those folks in FL)."
As a Floridian, please let me point out that most Floridians do
know how to vote. We simply have a large number of elderly
transplants from all 50 states and Canada. Frankly, someone who is
suffering from dementia has no business voting. And, the extremely
uniformed voters who MIGHT AS WELL be suffering from dementia also
have no business voting. Thank you for watching this after school
special. The more you know . . .
|10.11.08 @ 11:11AM|#
All I did was call him his middle name.
This is the equivalent of saying "All I did was use my own kitchen
knife in my own kitchen."
Well, did you use it to dice some onions, or to dismember the
babysitter?
|10.11.08 @ 11:12AM|#
Ed,
Your kindergarten rhyme works great except when the "names" are
used to incite people in the extreme to pick up "sticks and
stones".
Like "his name is Hussein, we can't let a muslim terrorist into our
White House" or the more direct "we need to kill that (insert
perjorative here)".
See the difference?
|10.11.08 @ 11:14AM|#
Obama's middle name is actually handy if you are in the community organizing business in Chicago. Acorn is a wildly pro palistinian organization, and who knows when you may need to ask Louis Farakahn for a job. Not that there is anything wrong with Islam, the Nation of Islam or voter fraud.
BDB|10.11.08 @ 11:20AM|#
James Ard, was that you the other day at that McCain/Palin rally ranting about "hooligans", "international socialism", and Rev. Wright?
|10.11.08 @ 11:23AM|#
No BDB, those would be northern zenophobes. I'm just your typical southern GOP racist. Actually, I have no qualms about the middle name or religion of Obama, all I care about is how much he is going to cost me.
|10.11.08 @ 11:24AM|#
prolefeed's convinced me.
It would have been both easy and politically smart for Barack Obama
to change his middle name to make him appear more acceptable to
racial paranoids as he sought political office.
But he didn't. He didn't change who we was, he didn't turn his back
on the name his mother gave him. I think that speaks well of the
man.
I don't think you're exactly a undecided voter in a swing state
that Obama needs to worry about losing, joe. Liberal Democrats in
Massachusetts are totally a gimme for the Democratic nominee,
unless you're about to go down in flames in an epic fail of a
campaign. :o)
And, it is an accepted practice in many Native American tribes to
change one's name at maturity to reflect one's true nature, rather
than the name given at birth that may not be a great fit with who
you turn out to be.
I don't think it's either admirable or condemnable to keep your
birth name, or to change it. Keeping it is the default for most
people. My point is that if Obama thought he might be running for
president one day, he should have given serious consideration early
on to changing his name. Perhaps he felt 'Hussein' was a net asset
for running as a Democrat for office in Chicago and Illinois.
I'm not an Obama fanboy like you, joe. I suspect that Obama might
have given this at least a little consideration, and may have
decided that it was a slight advantage as a Democrat to have a
memorable name for the political offices he was considering in the
near future, and that he didn't really expect that it was a likely
contingency that he would be the Democratic nominee for
president.
That is, rather than being an admirable show of character, I
suspect it is somewhat more likely that some cold-blooded political
calculus and tactics were involved here. Or maybe just an oversight
that came back to bite him in the arse a little bit.
FWIW, we had a candidate for Congress in Hawaii whose last name was
Swindle. Seriously. The man ran for office and didn't change that
name. And he did surprisingly well, too, for a Republican in
Hawaii.
Go figgah.
|10.11.08 @ 11:30AM|#
Georgia had a congressman named Swindal. He seemed like a good republican until he got busted swindling people. FWIW, I voted for Herman Cain for senate, and I wouldn't hold anyone's religion against them, unless, of course, it was Scientology.
||10.11.08 @ 11:31AM|#
Let's just call him Bubba or Toby and be done with it. I mean, if names don't have any significance, then either of those should be fine. I tend to forget names anyway.
|10.11.08 @ 11:35AM|#
prolefeed,
And, it is an accepted practice in many Native American tribes
to change one's name at maturity to reflect one's true nature,
rather than the name given at birth that may not be a great fit
with who you turn out to be. Barack Obama is not an American
Indian.
I don't think it's either admirable or condemnable to keep your
birth name, or to change it. I think it depends on the
circumstances and motivations. Changing your name to blend in, turn
your back on your ancestors, and gain political power would make me
think less of somebody.
That is, rather than being an admirable show of character, I
suspect it is somewhat more likely that some cold-blooded political
calculus and tactics were involved here. Please, name the
other Illinois Senators with Arab or Muslim names.
Moby|10.11.08 @ 11:40AM|#
I think I agree with everyone.
Yes, people are implying an insult when they make it a point to use
his middle name.
Yes, they are free to do that.
Yes, they have a point about his name.
Yes, personal opinions don't require footnotes.
Yes, people don't have to put any merit in your opinions.
Yes, the democrats chose someone with a Muslim name, and now they
have to deal with it.
Yes, Barack has to deal with it too.
Graham was right. We are a nation of whiners.
BDB|10.11.08 @ 11:42AM|#
BTW, it's been a week of the Ayers/"Who is he
REALLY?"/"terrorist" strategy. And the polls, if they moved at all,
have moved slightly in Obama's direction.
I think calling McCain's strategy in the last week an "epic fail"
would be appropriate. Basically, anyone who doesn't get excited
about race war is being repelled by it.
|10.11.08 @ 11:46AM|#
For all of this whining from Sarah Palin about people picking on
red America, the only place that has been the subject of insults in
this entire campaign is Chicago.
Stop that man; he's from Chicago! Don't you know what they're like
in Chicago?
|10.11.08 @ 11:47AM|#
BDB, you are correct, the Ayers strategy is doing more harm than good. On the other hand, there could be some benefit to pinning Obama to Fannie and Freddie.
BDB|10.11.08 @ 11:47AM|#
"BDB, you are correct, the Ayers strategy is doing more harm
than good. On the other hand, there could be some benefit to
pinning Obama to Fannie and Freddie."
There's tons of good stuff there. Which makes me wonder why he
didn't do it!
D.A. Ridgely|10.11.08 @ 11:48AM|#
I don't trust that Tom Cruise, he looks like a Scientologist.
Don't worry. He's not a religious Scientologist, just a cultural
one.
-|10.11.08 @ 11:51AM|#
"Don't worry. He's not a religious Scientologist, just a
cultural one."
Lol! Excellent. Nicely done.
Uncle Bob|10.11.08 @ 12:00PM|#
"There's tons of good stuff there. Which makes me wonder why
he didn't do it!"
Probably because he's not exactly clean in that area either. I
don't think anyone is congress is. Frankly, I think the Ayres and
Acorn thing is pretty powerful, but then that's just my
opinion.
BDB|10.11.08 @ 12:03PM|#
It's powerful among the Republican base. Who are voting for him
anyway.
It'd be like the DNC talking openly about Diebold.
Wasilla Alaska|10.11.08 @ 12:03PM|#
For all of this whining from Sarah Palin about people
picking on red America, the only place that has been the subject of
insults in this entire campaign is Chicago.
Don't forget about me joe.
|10.11.08 @ 12:10PM|#
Yeah, people who are insulted when the word "nigger" is
shouted at them have only themselves to blame.
Aw shit. I hear people call each other nigger and nigga all the
fucking time and nobody gets offended if the speaker is African
American.
God damn, I'm am so tired of this juvenile petty shit from the left
and the right, from blacks and whites, Christians and Jews and
Muslims, the FSM Church and the Reformed Church of the FSM. Me and
most of my friends have gone beyond this fucking dumbass nonsense.
We're working on the easily offended and the obtuse.
And maybe Obama didn't change his given name for the same reason I
kept my name. I thought about it for a while, but it would have
hurt too many people I'm related to and caused me to make
innumerable explantations to others. Or maybe it's for the same
reason I don't dye my graying hair, "that's part of me, live with
it".
BTW, I would reflexively support a candidate saddled with the
moniker Genghis Adolf Torquemada and bore it proudly.
Uncle Bob|10.11.08 @ 12:13PM|#
"It's powerful among the Republican base. Who are voting for
him anyway.
It'd be like the DNC talking openly about Diebold."
But I'm a libertarian, and I find it to be an issue.
The DNC should be talking about Diebold. Everyone should
be talking about the potentials for voter fraud and miscounts all
over the place. It's an issue on all sides.
BDB|10.11.08 @ 12:16PM|#
It seems to me people only talk about vote fraud if they know
they are going to lose.
It's ultimately self-defeating ("We didn't lose because we ran a
crappy campaign! WE WUZ ROBBED!)
Uncle Bob|10.11.08 @ 12:18PM|#
Yep, but really, it needs to be resolved. If our elections aren't honest, and we know they aren't, then why have them?
BDB|10.11.08 @ 12:19PM|#
There should probably be a uniform federal standard for elections. That's one thing that should be the same, everywhere.
Politics 101|10.11.08 @ 12:23PM|#
Democrats whine about vote fraud after they lose in order to
delegitimize the election.
Republicans whining about vote fraud before the election is their
classic and effective tactic of voter suppression.
|10.11.08 @ 12:23PM|#
There should probably be a uniform federal standard for
elections. That's one thing that should be the same,
everywhere.
Constitutional Amendments are hard. That's what you're talking
about.
BDB|10.11.08 @ 12:25PM|#
So we need a constitutional amendment for a uniform election
standard, but not one for a Wall St. bailout?
Oookaaay. Right.
BDB|10.11.08 @ 12:26PM|#
That wasn't directed at you, J Sub.
Just saying what a fucked up political world we live in.
D.A. Ridgely|10.11.08 @ 12:27PM|#
The DNC should be talking about Diebold. Everyone should be talking about the potentials for voter fraud and miscounts all over the place. It's an issue on all sides.
No, it's an issue on both sides. If you don't care whether
Tweedledee or Tweedledum wins, it isn't really all that much of an
issue.
Elemenope|10.11.08 @ 12:33PM|#
No, it's an issue on both sides. If you don't care whether
Tweedledee or Tweedledum wins, it isn't really all that much of an
issue.
If I'm unlikely to win, I still care that those that are likely are
cheating.
|10.11.08 @ 12:38PM|#
If I'm unlikely to win, I still care that those that are
likely are cheating.
Win or lose, I'd like to see investigating and prosecuting voting
fraud a higher priority than it is. I'd like to see more people go
to jail for it. We can let dope sellers out to make room for
them.
Mike Farmer|10.11.08 @ 12:42PM|#
My opinion is that someone's name is ambiguous when considering
a bi-moral substantiation regardless of tolerance and co-exisiting
with an underlying bias towards some parts of an ethnic fluctuation
orginating from, not malice, but obfuscation of relevant principles
determining a balanced consideration of "sur" and "middle" first
expounded by Wilson in a 1965 letter to Jameson explicating causes
of racism yet to be accepted by mainstream mores and thus
precipitating all preceding spirals in civility when taken at face
value.
Although I could be wrong.
alan|10.11.08 @ 1:01PM|#
William the Conqueror | October 11, 2008, 10:51am | #
Democracy will not work in Anglo-Saxon society. They are used to
absolute monarchies and that is the only type of society that they
could live in. It would be wrong of us to try to push democracy on
these people. Monarchy is all they have ever known and all that
will work with their culture.
Excellent, good sir!
I'm very sympathetic to Obama on the middle name business because I
have a middle name problem of my own.
My first name is Celtic in origin, middle is Saxon, and the last is
Spanish reflecting my dual heritage. However, that middle name was
chosen because it is the name of the city I was born in and that
city my mother discovered to her liberal hippie horror only a few
years ago was named after a founder of the Ku Klux Klan. Yeah, even
if I wasn't a substance abusing horndog with a vulgar sense of
humor and no real religious affiliation who wouldn't be caught dead
repeating that National Socialist pledge of allegiance, I would
still have a few problems running for public office.
tim|10.11.08 @ 1:35PM|#
I am quite tired of those mentioning John SIDNEY McCains middle
name! Would you think of the feelings of all the nerds that are
being made fun of by repeating John SIDNEY McCains middle name in
such a negative fashion?
John SIDNEY McCain!
/thinks those that feel it necessary to raise Obama middle name are
ignorant fools
Naga Sadow|10.11.08 @ 1:37PM|#
Easy there tim. I have ignorant fool relatives. I can call em' that, not you.
bagehot|10.11.08 @ 1:37PM|#
Amazed at how easily distracted Americans are. A theatre commander admits he's losing a war; a free market conservsative from the top brokerage firm has begun to nationalize the economy as treasury secretary; half the states still don't know how to run an election, and the other half stopped caring. The real question is no longer who left power lying in the streets, but who picks it up. My hope? No one.
MAX HATS|10.11.08 @ 1:45PM|#
Are people really making the claim that Obama is being cynical
by not changing his middle name to something white?
Really?
Man, once Obama wins, it's going to be the nineties all over again.
I await eight years of forwarded chain emails about nonexistent
people who have died and other imaginary scandals written in ALL
CAPS.
|10.11.08 @ 1:52PM|#
"The right has sunken into such a low, disgusting populism,
pandering to the lowest common denominator and playing to people's
basest fears"
The GOP are so addicted to being afraid that they ought to have
given their nomination to R. L. Stine.
|10.11.08 @ 2:04PM|#
This is kinda like a XXX arcade owner tellin a guy he can't rub
one out.
The GOP crowds have been whipped into a frenzy of distrust and
disgust. When that makes the logical transformation into hatred and
violence, they say ohhhh, you can't go there.
The real problem with McCain's weak rebuke is that he now alienates
the dumbasses he and Palin have been inflaming for the last week or
two. You live by the sword, you die by the sword.
|10.11.08 @ 2:05PM|#
It's amazing that McCain isn't running on his strength. I've yet
to see an ad that extols his standing up to Bush on torture and
Gitmo, for example. Palin could run ads about running the GOP
governor of Alaska out of town. Etc.
But instead he's playing to the "agents of intolerance" that he
bravely decried in 2000. Obama is not "an open book" he's "risky"
"what do you really know about Obama" etc. That's not how John
McCain became a household name...
Is it because the movement conservatives are such nuts, demanding
total comformity and that their candidate match their paranoid
Trotskyite meanness or else they will sit on their hands on
election day? Jesus, with friends like those...
|10.11.08 @ 2:09PM|#
Q: What do Obama and Osama have in common besides similar
sounding names?
A: They both have friends who bombed the Pentagon!
alan|10.11.08 @ 2:10PM|#
Way back in the 60's the GOP ran a man with a Jewish heritage for president, and Romney's father's Mormonism was something no one gave a shit about at the time. One of the oddities about all of this is the party of Bush/McCain is much less conservative than the party of Goldwater and at the same time it is less tolerant.
|10.11.08 @ 2:11PM|#
prole
Is it me or have you still at this point not said that the emphasis
of Obama's middle name to imply he's a dangerous muslim is
something a slimebag would do? You've only laid blame so far on
Obama for not changing it and the Dems for picking someone with
that name (which I agree are practical blunders the latter of which
I have ranted about many times before). Practically the latter are
just correct, but what about the moral question of attacking a
fellow because of the ethnicity of his middle name?
When a girl with a sexy dress is raped it's not necessarily bad to
say "what was she thinking wearing that dress to that neighborhood
late at night" but to say ONLY that and not "what an evil bastard
it is that rapes a woman regardless of her wardrobe choice" as well
(and foremost) is a bit bad...
|10.11.08 @ 2:14PM|#
When McCain got his convention bounce it was at a time when he had just bought ad time giving congrats to Obama for making history and gave a very un-partisan convention speech. The John McCain who gets people to cross party lines to vote for him, which is his gimmick, is simply not the one being sold to the U.S. right now...
|10.11.08 @ 2:14PM|#
alan at 2:10 PM.
Excellent point.
What changed? It's pretty obvious, really, but I'm curious what
others think.
alan|10.11.08 @ 2:16PM|#
but, less we forget . . .
But instead he's playing to the "agents of intolerance" that he
bravely decried in 2000. Obama is not "an open book" he's "risky"
"what do you really know about Obama" etc. That's not how John
McCain became a household name...
This same story played out in the Democratic primaries as
well in the final run. Hillary supporters were sending me the same
kind of chain emails of 'Obama is a Muslim' in May and June that
Palinistas (shudder, I so fucking shudder) are sending me now.
alan|10.11.08 @ 2:27PM|#
capelza,
The 70's happened. The overreaching of Roe v. Wade caused a
political backlash we are enjoying to this day (Ruth Bader Ginsburg
to her credit once wrote about this), as well as the cultural
happenstance of the seventies.
I'm not blaming what we are seeing at the McCain rallies on the
Evangelicals, that sort of populism reflects a reaction to a number
of factors, 9-11, Iran hostage crises, pro Israel propaganda in the
mainstream media that has demonized Arabs over the last thirty
years in many subtle ways, the L A riots, back lash to the PC
intolerance in the Multicultural movement, a lot of things are
reflected in this anger, and Obama is made out to be the poster boy
of all of these factors by his detractors.
|10.11.08 @ 2:41PM|#
Don't worry. He's not a religious Scientologist, just a
cultural one.
No, that's Beck. Tom is a convert and a fanatic. Beck was raised in
the church. I'm looking forward to the rise of the Cafeteria
Scientologist.
I find peace and strength in a good going-over with the e-meter; so
what if I don't believe all of that Xenu stuff?
Sara Palin|10.11.08 @ 2:47PM|#
"I was frequently accused of both by the roommate who told me
that people like him were going to rise up against the niggers, the
queers, the Jews, and "the people like you."
Did he say when? I want to make sure we...they get that in before
the rapture.
|10.11.08 @ 2:48PM|#
Calling him by his full name is an insult?
I was just using my own kitchen knife in my own kitchen. What's
wrong with that?
Well, were you using it chop onions, or to dismember the
paperboy?
|10.11.08 @ 2:48PM|#
"Calling him by his full name is an insult?"
Well of course it can't be!
J. Danforth Quayle. I mean, the people who chanted that years ago
were just innocently stating the guy's name right?
Oh Mark, you so coy!
Mike Laursen|10.11.08 @ 2:57PM|#
McCain was trying to be decent, but you would have expected
him to answer in a million different ways than the way he
did...
Nah, I still give him points for being willing to correct her. It's
likely she and others in the crowd would walk away having taken
offense. He was being honorable no matter exactly what
contradictory statement he made.
Barrack Hussein Obama|10.11.08 @ 3:00PM|#
There was nothing wrong with the name Hussein, until I was about
29 years old and that no-talent ass clown became famous and started
gassing Kurds and invading Kuwait.
Why don't I just go change it?
No way. Why should I change? He's the one who sucked.
Just sayin\'|10.11.08 @ 3:03PM|#
Arab: He insulted me!
Ed: How so?
Arab: He called me "Hussein"!
Ed: Isn't that your name?
Arab: Yes.
Ed: So how is it an insult?
Arab: He's implying that I belong to a primitive, violent
religion.
Ed: Do you?
Arab: No.
Ed: So how has he insulted you?
Arab: You're engaging in amazing twisty logic and
self-deception.
Ed: I see. Would you prefer that I called you "David"?
Arab: David! That's a Jew's name!
Genius.
|10.11.08 @ 3:19PM|#
I can kinda sorta see the argument that McCain could have
confronted the woman more directly, but I'm not inclined to be
stingy here.
First, I know this game. Why don't Muslims denounce terrorism. They
do, here and here and here and here. OK, but why don't they do it
MORE?
Second, a yes-no-yes-no dynamic isn't going to change any minds.
McCain was nudging the asteroid onto a different trajectory, not
trying to blow it up, and that's a smarter way to handle it anyway.
He was defusing, when a direct confrontation could well have
escalated.
Third, the meat of this attack is that Obama is going to suicide
bomb the White House, or secretly side with bin Laden, or otherwise
be not just a politician with the wrong beliefs and policies, but
an active enemy of the United States. That's what all of this
innuendo builds up to. McCain took on that charge directly instead
of the individual bricks used to build the case, and that's right.
As we all learned during the Clinton years, it doesn't matter if
each individual charge is refuted in turn; even if they all are,
the people making the charge can still say things like "There's a
cloud...," "Where there's smoke there's fire," "There are all of
these questions..."
|10.11.08 @ 3:28PM|#
Some people are just too ignorant in general to be allowed to
speak publicly*. Of course both McCain and Obama are forced to try
to appeal to some of these people. McCain went halfway towards
acknowledging this, but of course it would be disadvantageous for
either candidate to fully express this.
*No, not me, asshole.
|10.11.08 @ 3:32PM|#
"I would also pray, Lord, that your reputation is involved in
all that happens between now and November, because there are
millions of people around this world praying to their god - whether
it's Hindu, Buddha, Allah - that his opponent wins, for a variety
of reasons," Conrad said.
"And Lord, I pray that you would guard your own reputation, because
they're going to think that their god is bigger than you, if that
happens. So I pray that you will step forward and honor your own
name with all that happens between now and Election Day," he
said."
A preacher, opening a McCain rally with a little brayin'.
___
MJ|10.11.08 @ 3:34PM|#
"Stop that man; he's from Chicago! Don't you know what they're
like in Chicago?"
Yeah, joe it's not as if Chicago has a well-deserved reputation of
being the paragon of corrupt machine politics. It's such an unfair
slur!
BakedPenguin|10.11.08 @ 3:38PM|#
The whole thing reminds me of the Lewinsky thing when Clinton
was President. I didn't like Clinton, but I also thought that the
Republicans were attacking him for all the wrong reasons. They
couldn't attack him for most of his real faults, because
they were just as bad on most of those issues.
It's a similar dynamic here. What's McCain going to attack Obama
on? Obama's a big spender? His campaign has used the law to
restrict the first amendment? Ha ha, good luck.
Bingo|10.11.08 @ 3:45PM|#
It's almost like the only thing that differentiates the Elephant from the Donkey this year is that the Donkey's guy is black and has a funny sounding name.
Bingo|10.11.08 @ 3:46PM|#
Vote for our guy! You still get mostly the same policies only he's white and doesn't have a funny name so its not nearly as scary!
|10.11.08 @ 3:50PM|#
Check out the racism from the free thinkers.
Imagine if someone called their opponent a secret Jew.
Oh wait, Palin already did that.
You people should be ashamed of yourselves.
Mad Max|10.11.08 @ 4:26PM|#
"there are plenty of people at the margins who would be less
inclined to be suspicious of Obama if he had chosen to change his
middle name to something blander like 'Marcus'."
You mean like Marcus Aurelius, the pagan emperor of Rome?
Why is Obama a pagan? Why does he hate Christianity?
|10.11.08 @ 5:32PM|#
ARABISM = RACISM
The global virus of racist Arabism has claimed/claims millions of
victims, it includes:
Kurds (under Saddam or Syria), Berbers, Jews (inside Israel - the
genocide campaign since the massacre in 1929 by the Mufti Haj Amin
Al Husseini until today, or in the Arab world or on 'Arab street'
in Europe, etc.), Africans (genocide in Sudan, oppression in Egypt,
Slavery in Mauritania, etc.)...
BakedPenguin|10.11.08 @ 5:38PM|#
Check out the racism from the free thinkers.
Yes, because:
1) Everyone who posts here is a libertarian, including the person
who posted the quote above, and...
2) None of the above comments were meta-level or ironic in any way,
shape or form.
Tim |10.11.08 @ 6:17PM|#
Cavanaugh factoid: I have two pending Facebook friends and two
existing Facebook friends who at least on Facebook are
participating in the
change your middle name to Hussein to show your support for
Obama campaign.
How I wish I had Obama's problems.
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|10.11.08 @ 9:23PM|#
On the question of whether Obama should have changed his name: I
think it would have been bad to do from a purely political
standpoint.
Which would the people who tend to - even in the slightest - worry
about the middle name "Hussein" be more upset about:
A man whose middle name is Hussein, and who admits this fact.
Or a man whose middle name was Hussein,
but who changed it right before he entered politics.
I think the second would stir up the whole "secret Muslim" thing a
whole lot worse. Because the fact is that when a politician changes
his or her name, or has missing records, or what have you, it
becomes an issue to those on the opposite side. The people who now
are so concerned with Obama's strange name and time living in
Indonesia and pictures in a robe would say "Look, he tried to hide
it too! He changed his name! He is a
super secret Muslim!"
|10.11.08 @ 9:26PM|#
The folks above who go all innocent and say 'what's wrong with
calling someone by their name?' are playing a very silly game. It
is a fact that communication consists of more than the literal
meaning of each word--if not it couldn't happen at all. We all know
what is meant when someone calls Obama 'Barak HUSSEIN Obama'--they
are conveying an indirect message that Obama is some kind of
crypto-Muslim. They are being as obvious as the Monty Python 'nudge
nudge, wink wink' character, and folks who deny that this is going
on probably secretly believe it. Come on, folks--human conversation
contains lots of hidden messages, it isn't hard to learn what rules
govern them, and denying simple conversational implicature is a
mean-spirited trick.
McCain was also being disingenuous when he said of Obama 'he's a
decent guy'
It's like the old joke:
'I defended you last night. Somebody said you ate shit sandwiches
and I said, no way--I know you don't like bread'.
Not denying the implied message is buying into it, and McCain's so
desperate now he's willing to condone the unspoken message,
'Obama's a secret Muslim'. Too bad he can't attack Obama on
economic grounds, but he agrees with him on them. Plus pretty much
everything else except Iraq.
Sigh...
|10.11.08 @ 9:37PM|#
Well SO WHAT - my family is Egyptian. When we moved to a
completely white suburb back in the 70's I changed my name to a
hybrid of my given name when I was in middle school.
I mean, REALLY, my last name was Abdalla, my father is black, my
mother white (both Egyptian), I was dark and had kinky hair, we
were Muslim - sorry, that just DOESN'T GO DOWN WELL in white
suburban America.
Isn't being a kid/teenager hard enough without feeling completely
like the odd man out? I have NEVER FELT MORE ALONE AND ISOLATED IN
MY WHOLE LIFE than at that period of time until I graduated.
I understand young Barack's confusion and simply wanting to fit in
with everyone else.
Get over it people - he was a kid trying to find his way.
|10.11.08 @ 9:43PM|#
and BTW as a Muslim - yeah, McCain is offensive - but why the
HELL hasn't Obama said "So FREAKIN' WHAT??" God knows he has had
plenty of opportunity during the primaries.
Dissappointing at best.
|10.11.08 @ 10:33PM|#
Mr. Nice Guy: " I've yet to see an ad that extols his standing
up to Bush on torture and Gitmo"
Uh, McCain's final stance was, essentially, that it would have been
okay for the North Vietnamese to torture him as long as it was done
by intelligence officers.
Not a big moral victory, that.
ed|10.12.08 @ 7:46AM|#
Some white guys yelled stupid things at a political rally and I'm so embarrassed, because I'm white, too. Such jeers are deeply offensive to millions of peaceful, law-abiding, non-yelling white Americans.
BakedPenguin|10.12.08 @ 10:28AM|#
Well, they've convinced me Barrack HUSSEIN Obama is a
super-secret double plus Muslim, and I shouldn't vote for
him.
Also, I'm not starting Mushin Muhammed on my fantasy football team
this week, either - even if the Falcons cornerbacks suck.
|10.12.08 @ 11:00AM|#
Someone upthread claimed that Obama did change his name. This is
my favorite Obamaspiracy theory of all.
You see, he was born "Barack Mohammed Obama," but his controllers
decided that such a name would be a political liability, so they
had him change it to something more mainstream: "Barack Hussein
Obama."
VM|10.12.08 @ 11:04AM|#
hell. let's solve this middle name controversy once and for
all.
Let's have Obama change his middle name to Rodham.
Problem solved.
(psst. Baked - he's no longer on the Bears)
|10.12.08 @ 11:06AM|#
BDB | October 11, 2008, 12:16pm | #
It seems to me people only talk about vote fraud if they know they
are going to lose.
It's ultimately self-defeating ("We didn't lose because we ran a
crappy campaign! WE WUZ ROBBED!)
What's that you say?
WASHINGTON - The only way Barack Obama can win in Indiana is to
cheat, one of John McCain's stand-ins said Thursday.
He said votes have already been cast by "people who don't exist"
and that a national voter-registration effort is "trying to steal
the election in Indiana."
In an interview before headlining the Indiana Republican Party's
fund-raising dinner in Indianapolis Thursday night, Sen. Lindsey
Graham, R-S.C., said Hoosiers are too smart to vote for
Obama.
Democrats, he said, "can't win fairly out here."
Asked if Democrats could win without cheating, Graham said, "No.
They can't win fairly out here 'cause their agenda is so far
removed from the average Hoosier.
"We could lose, I suppose, if they cheat us out of it," Graham said
of Indiana's 11 electoral votes. "I think the only way we lose a
state like North Carolina or Indiana is to get cheated out of
it."
VM|10.12.08 @ 11:07AM|#
(sorry for double)
joe - in other words, he pulled a Van Helsing who changed his name
to Rosenberg for professional reasons?
BakedPenguin|10.12.08 @ 11:19AM|#
Yeah, Moose - I'd like to say that was planned, to go along with
the clueless joke, but really I only remembered he'd been traded
after I posted.
Rodham is good. Milhouse would be better. Maybe both. Barrack
Rodham Milhouse Obama.
|10.12.08 @ 11:20AM|#
The beauty of Barrack Hussein Obama is that his white heritage gives him enough ambition for his black heritage to steal the election for the furtherance of Islamic world rule.
VM|10.12.08 @ 11:54AM|#
Baked.
c'est la vie. I like it. Milhouse is good!
BDB: I misread what you wrote and saw "humped" instead of
"jumped"
[kicks self in taint. wanders off through the meadow]
|10.12.08 @ 12:04PM|#
This just realeased: due to his alledged ties to a radical secessionist group and his involvement in troopergate, Todd Palin has been released by the McCain campaign. It is rumoured that veteran actor Ted McKinley will be taking over the role of "the first dude."
|10.12.08 @ 12:44PM|#
VM, from what I have heard, there will be footage of McKinley photographing the Gov. while she nurses Trig. To me, that has to go under,"Very Special."
|10.12.08 @ 4:28PM|#
Calling him by his full name is an insult?
When my mom did it, it was usually the start of a threat, if not
outright violence.
Matthew Hogan\'s Mom|10.12.08 @ 7:19PM|#
Matthew Aloysius* Hogan III, you get in here right now!
* Just an educated guess.
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