Who Else Will Bail?

David Weigel | September 22, 2008

I've been calling around to the offices of conservative Republican members of Congress, the sort of people who've spent the decade crusading against "big spending" and are now being asked to give Louis XIV-sized powers to Hank Paulson. There's a bit of radio silence.

"I don't think he'll be commenting right away," said a spokesperson for Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan. "He wants some time to dig in and digest this stuff first." I got a hint of where a fellow conservative might end up from Vartan Djihanian, spokesman for Rep. John Campbell (whom I profiled in 2007). "He's in favor of the package," Djihanian said, "and he thinks not doing anything would lead to enormous problems. He wants to keep ideology out of this and do the right thing."

But there's opposition come from other Hill conservatives. South Carolina Sen. Jim DeMint says it will "make matters much worse by socializing an entire sector of the U.S. economy."

Most Americans are paying their bills on time and investing responsibly and should not be forced to pay for the reckless actions of some on Wall Street, especially when no one can guarantee this will solve our current problems. This plan will not only cause our nation to fall off the debt cliff, it could send the value of the dollar into a free-fall as investors around the world question our ability to repay our debts.

Much more from the Politico's "Crypt" bloggers here. Read between the lines and you see a White House weakly pleading for a "clean" bill (i.e. without Democratic caps on CEO salaries, etc) and Republican leaders sniping at the bailout without exactly promising to kill it.

Comments

Secretary of Treasury, Mr. Max|9.22.08 @ 5:29PM|#

You now own 50% of "Prisoners Of Love".

David|9.22.08 @ 5:38PM|#

I suggest we merge the no-short list with the no-fly list.

|9.22.08 @ 5:51PM|#

so, are there any Democrats who are making the progressive argument against this bill?

Come on, Barney Frank...I know you can do it.

|9.22.08 @ 5:55PM|#

Yeah, I check in here at 5:50pm and the normal "Dems are socialists" nimwits are nowhere to be found....

Meanwhile, the Bushpig fascists have pushed the cumulative federal debt from $4.7 trillion to a projected $11 trillion in one administration - all the while goosing corporate coffers.

Enjoy your loss of freedom, Bushpigs! You are on the hook for it in future taxes!

|9.22.08 @ 6:02PM|#

shrike - what's the expected Dem resistance to the bailout?

If your answer was "barely any", then you should realize that your ill-informed partisanship is misplaced. This is a "pox on both their houses" kind of thing.

|9.22.08 @ 6:06PM|#

TAO,

shrike's blinders prevent him/her from noticing that.

|9.22.08 @ 6:17PM|#

Enjoy your loss of freedom, Bushpigs!

Glad to see that so many have come to finally recognize that running up the debt, thereby guaranteeing future tax increases, and laying the groundwork for massive regulation, is a loss of freedom.

What took you so long?

And will higher taxes and more regulation still be a loss of freedom when they are authored by the Dems, shrike?

|9.22.08 @ 6:17PM|#

I thought they already put the kibosh on the Bridge to Nowhere.

|9.22.08 @ 6:18PM|#

I am not a partisan, you idiots.

I will gladly support Republicans when they become a party of civil freedoms, small budgets, and no foreign entanglements.

Easy as 1, 2, and 3.


I suspect you irrational Bush deadender holdouts are abortofreak Christoids holding your breath for a sex-free Christo-theocracy.

|9.22.08 @ 6:23PM|#

So what if we're at a point in stock market history where we go up 500 one day and down 500 the next?
Can't stand the heat, don't go crying to Paulson.
Markets have always been a measure of the madness of crowds in addition to being price discovery mechanisms.
If the US market wants to go socialist, free-trading peaceful anarchists will trade off-shore.

Ruthless

|9.22.08 @ 6:26PM|#

And will higher taxes and more regulation still be a loss of freedom when they are authored by the Dems, shrike?

Like the Bill Clinton era?

You have nothing - just fear-mongering.

Oh, the Clinton Dems are scary! - economic health might bring on immoral degradation in the form of fat interns blowing the president in the Holy White House!

I don't give a fuck if the White House is turned into a giant whore house - as long as someone with a brain is getting his rocks off inside.

shecky|9.22.08 @ 6:29PM|#

Yelling "Socialism!" was only good when it was a hollow battle cry that could be used against Democrats.

I guess it sort of works the way govt can only begin to curb it's appetite under a Dem, biggest government expansions can really only happen these days under those small government Republicans.

|9.22.08 @ 7:07PM|#

a "clean" bill (i.e. without Democratic caps on CEO salaries, etc)

Among those "etcs" are such items as independent oversight, the removal of the "not reviewable by any court or administrative agency" language, and the insistence that the taxpayers actually get some ownership stake in return for putting up capital.

I'm still waiting for the grown-ups to start talking about disgorgement.

|9.22.08 @ 7:14PM|#

Enjoy your loss of freedom, Bushpigs!
Classic.You tell 'em, whitey!

|9.22.08 @ 7:20PM|#

pigwiggle,

I think it's time that guy posts "This web site" as his final entry, and ends it. He had a good run.

|9.22.08 @ 7:39PM|#

I'm still waiting for the grown-ups to start talking about disgorgement.

I'm waiting for Ds to take the reins of fiscal responsibility and say "you know what? we cannot afford this. End the madness"

economist|9.22.08 @ 7:59PM|#

joe,
What exactly do you mean by disgorgement. Do you mean that you intend to hunt down short sellers, take their profits, and break their legs for good measure?

|9.22.08 @ 8:02PM|#

I'm waiting for Ds to take the reins of fiscal responsibility and say "you know what? we cannot afford this. End the madness"

Isn't this $700 billion bailout being proposed by a Republican President and a Republican Treasury Secretary?

|9.22.08 @ 8:06PM|#

Your prayers have been answered, TAO.

Jim McDermott (D-WA) on the floor of the House:

"This is the third time we've done it with this bunch. First the war, which didn't get paid for. Then the tax cuts, that didn't get paid for, and now King Henry takes over to distribute 700 billion dollars. He's going to be there for four months. And in four months he will make deals and then he'll go out and he's going to be able to catch a pass he threw to himself."

Nice, Jim.

|9.22.08 @ 8:07PM|#

economist,

Short sellers? What in God's name are you talking about?

What does the mortgage meltdown have to do with short sellers?

|9.22.08 @ 8:12PM|#

"economist" Quote-Unquote-economist.

Investopedia

Disgorgement

A repayment of ill-gotten gains that is imposed on wrongdoers by the courts. Funds that were received through illegal or unethical business transactions are disgorged, or paid back, with interest to those affected by the action. Disgorgement is a remedial civil action, rather than a punitive civil action.

Investopedia Commentary

Individuals or companies that violate Securities and Exchange Commission regulations are typically required to pay both civil money penalties and disgorgement. Civil money penalties are punitive, while disgorgement is about paying back profits made from those actions that violated securities regulations.

Disgorgement payments are not only demanded of those who violate securities regulations, however. Anyone profiting from illegal or unethical activities may be civilly required to disgorge their profits.

I used to read a lot about "moral hazard." Why doesn't anybody talk about that anymore?

SIV|9.22.08 @ 8:13PM|#

I'm still waiting for the grown-ups to start talking about disgorgement.

I'm with you %100 joe. The only thing that can kill this horrible bailout/debt assumption is the DemocRATS loading it up with extra crap, and if somehow possible making it even more socialist.If that kills it I promise to never question you guys patriotism ever again.Shit, I'm dead serious, if the Dems can make this or any other bailout too odious to pass you are all right by me.

|9.22.08 @ 8:14PM|#

So much for the party of personal responsibility, eh SIV?

SIV|9.22.08 @ 8:20PM|#

I want the market to hold them responsible.
These SOBs need to be jumping out of their buildings (1929 style NOT 9/11) .If the DemocRATS can prevent a debt paper bailout by loading any bill up with more socialism then God Bless them.

|9.22.08 @ 8:31PM|#

The ones who have profits and are out will be responsible, how, exactly? Their corporate entities took the hit. Their fired employees took the hit. There's your market discipline - it hurt the corporate entity and the people who answer phones.

There are people sitting on fortunes from this scam. Until two minutes ago, you had spent days denouncing them and their actions. Now, your knee jerks predictably, and your pathetic, fawning class ambitions make a fool of you.

BTW, how predictable is it that the guy who still thinks Failin' Palin is super-popular also thinks that disgorgement from dishonest Wall Streeters would be politically unacceptable among the American public?

|9.22.08 @ 8:34PM|#

ENOUGH!!!

You kids don't want me to pull this car over!
;-P

|9.22.08 @ 8:34PM|#

There's nothin' that can't be fixed by either counterfeiting shares, or printing up more dollars. They'll spend their lives workin' fer false promises.

|9.22.08 @ 8:41PM|#

Seven trillion ($7,000,000,000,000) tax dollars going to Wall Street to buy bad debt in a way that makes the sellers a profit on something that is worthless isn't socialist and wouldn't sink the bill, but wait a second, did you say something that would harm the people most responsible for making this happen? That's socialism! People won't stand for it!

|9.22.08 @ 8:46PM|#

Seriously, fuck!!

Joe, SIV, shrike, et al: In case you (conviently) forgot, the name of this rag is "Reason". The whole lot of you sound about as reasonable as my 5 yo grandson. Stick to objective facts, or take your shrill shillin' somewhere else. Now I'll never get this bile out of my jammies.

You can BET YOUR ASS that the criminal fucks who made off with our X-mas presents vote both sides of the ticket. And you can further bet that both sides of the aisle will make as much political hay as possible from this debacle. You are playing right into their hands with this claptrap.

SIV|9.22.08 @ 8:52PM|#

joe,


I am all for throwing the book at anyone who broke the rules in creating this mess . I don't want the ban on shorting, the bailout of debt paper, or the money market insurance.I'm all for rolling back any previous bailouts as well.

SIV|9.22.08 @ 8:58PM|#

WTF?

I'm praising the Dems for giving a shot at killing the Paulson plan by altering it enough to make it untenable.I know both sides are responsible and I want them to pay by both the invisible hand and the guns of the State if they broke the damn rules.

|9.22.08 @ 9:04PM|#

Shrike -- you do realize that Democrats control Congress, don't you? And that this odious bill requires approval from said Democratic-controlled Congress?

Truly a bipartisan clusterfuck in progress here.

Metal Man Has Won His Wings|9.23.08 @ 1:06AM|#

Why can't we just take our collapse like men? It's part and parcel of capitalism. Sorta the market's way of saying "you're doing it wrong", and clearing the decks for it to be built again, presumably better. We should stop letting our government forestall the inevitable all because they can't comfortably conceive of a nation without drastically overpriced real estate.

|9.23.08 @ 6:13AM|#

So what do the economics experts here think would happen in the current situation without the bailout?

Could the severity of these consequences justify the bailout?

The responsible folks in the government have to think of this stuff, you know, and you don't.

|9.23.08 @ 7:32AM|#

"Why can't we just take our collapse like men? It's part and parcel of capitalism. Sorta the market's way of saying "you're doing it wrong", and clearing the decks for it to be built again, presumably better. We should stop letting our government forestall the inevitable all because they can't comfortably conceive of a nation without drastically overpriced real estate."

Well, apparently we can't take it like men....just like kids' baseball and soccer games where there are no winners....it's always a tie. We are raising a generation of kids that can't accept success or failure. No surprise it's being reflected even in the bastion of our "capitalism".

|9.23.08 @ 9:24AM|#

Best quote today...

"He wants to keep ideology out of this and do the right thing"

|9.23.08 @ 12:38PM|#

""""I'm praising the Dems for giving a shot at killing the Paulson plan by altering it enough to make it untenable."""

But will you critize the republicans who want to prevent the dems from making it so odious?

johnl|9.23.08 @ 5:05PM|#

This is the reductio ad absurdum of social security privatization.