Live from the LP Convention: Nominating Speeches and the 2008 Candidate

As I walked onto the floor, one delegate ran up to me to gloat. "Did you know that C-Span's got the only cameras here?" he asked. "What about Bob Barr's media frenzy, huh? If he's getting so much attention, where's all the media?"

"The media already thinks he's the nominee," I said.

At the convention tables, the smears have stopped, and the endorsements have arrived. Three Libertarians have distributed letters in support of Bob Barr, and the Ruwart campaign has put out a letter with endorsements from four former LP presidential candidates and two former VP nominees. Well, sort of. Dave Bergland, Andre Marrou, and Tonie Nathan explicitly endorse Ruwart, while Michael Badnarik says she's "pretty, smart, and swings a huge philosophical bat," and Ron Paul appears in the form of his blurb for Healing Our World.

Wayne Allyn Root gets the first speaking slot—last night he promised something "spectacular," and what he provided was a video endorsement from radio host Mancow (a card-carrying Libertarian), an argument for Root's appeal from Manny Klausner, and a tender seconding speech from his daughter Dakota. Root's speech is light on policy, heavy on biography, ending with the story of his mother clinging to life while he rushed to visit her in the hospital. "Wayne is on the way, they kept saying," Root remembered. "When I got to that hospital room I heard the greatest sound I ever heard: Meep, meep, meep. She was still alive!"

Internet problems solved, I should be liveblogging for a while.

10:06: Barr is nominated by two local (one former) LP chairs and Rob Kampia of the Marijuana Policy Project. "Times have changed," Kampia says. "I debated Bob Barr on TV. I testified before his committee. Last year, Bob Barr lobbied for the MPP." The head of Atlas PAC calls Barr's media attention "air supplies being dropped down to the trenches of the candidates."

10:12: Barr gives about as good a speech as he could have. The biggest applause comes when he does what delegates have told me again and again they wanted him to do: Nail himself to the cross and apologize. "I have made mistakes," Barr says. "The only way you make mistakes is by getting in the arena and getting things done."

10:15: In a spot of luck, Barr is followed up by the utterly unserious Christine Smith. She's nominated by a guy who tried to give me the 9/11 Truther Rock Creek Press 10 minutes ago.

10:16: Classy: Smith wears an anti-Barr button onto the podium.

10:20: Smith whines about the party nominating "middle-aged white males" and says it's time for a female candidate. If it's barely working for Ruwart, why does she think it'll work for her?

10:24: Smith bashes the "neo-cons trying to take over this party," meaning Barr and Root. There are wild cheers from some of the people holding Ruwart signs, and even some standing ovations.

10:27: How objective does a reporter have to be about this? Smith has been ranting for 13 minutes and it's time for the hook.

10:33: Ruwart's introductory speaker is accompanied by a slideshow straight out of the alternative Libertarian universe where Ruwart is a superstar. Among her credentials: "Most popular writer on The Advocates e-zine." Her targeted voter groups:

Ron Paul supporters
Alternative medicine advocates
Women

Some overlap there, I think.

10:35: The speaker's pushing the "women want to vote for a woman" argument, and the slideshow is getting even more self-parodying. Oh, so Barr's got all that media attention? Here's a page from the New York Times that mentions her. Here's a copy of a Kalamazoo paper that covers her county commissioner race.

10:39: More from the speakers: "She'll build this party by continuing the Ron Paul Revolution." Barry Hess continues the "Ron Paul" theme, bashing Root and Barr (not by name): "They are the darling of the old media. The new media has Mary."

10:43: Ruwart's speech is surprisingly short, especially coming after the Smith debacle. It's rhetorically clever: A candidate who's benefitting from white-hot rage against the right side of the party calls for unity from all factions.

10:44: The reception for Ruwart is really something. Twice now she's spoken before the assembled LP delegates, and twice she's been solid but unimpressive. (She told some people last night that she regretted not drawing more contrasts with Barr at the debate.) Twice her supporters have remained completely in the tank. The threat of a Barr or Root "takeover" is just too much for them.

10:54: While George Phillies' supporters nominate him for far, far longer than is necessary, let me theorize why, if Barr loses, he will have lost. Obviously, a certain segment of the party was never reachable. But a large, swing vote is gettable for Barr. These voters just want to be convinced he's honest about his conversion and that he's not leading a right-wing coup of the party. A byword for "right-wing coup" is "suit." And Team Barr is an army of dark, shiny suits. Barr's done a good job telling the story of his conversion, but he could have done it with more delegates, diving into hospitality suites, arguing one on one. He needed this more than any candidate, save Root. He's done a lot of it, but we'll see how much is enough.

10:58: Phillies' nominating speakers really underline his links to Outright Libertarians. A heavy emphasis on gay marriage in all their comments, some of it very personal.

11:01: That was truly odd. Phillies' speakers went on for so long that he talked for less than a minute. His campaign is handing out a curious, unmarked CD-rom containing the contact info of LP donors.

11:02: David Nolan nominates Steve Kubby by praising all seven debaters from last night: I hear a coded appeal for calm among Barr and Root haters.

11:04: Well, maybe not. Nolan says Kubby doesn't have to apologize for taking away freedoms... like, you know, some people.

11:20: Russ Verney of the Barr campaign expects a three-way-tie, after the second ballot, between Barr, Ruwart, and Root. They don't believe all of Ruwart's delegates will stick after the first ballot, but nor do they know where the also-ran candidates' votes will go. "No one outside the top three really has the ability to move their delegates as a bloc."

11:25: Michael Jingozian uses his nominating speech time for a video that doesn't exactly scream "128th fastest growing company in America." Or maybe it does.

11:31: There's not a lot of substance in Jingozian's speech. It's the weakness I've seen time and again: He doesn't seem to have a commitment to libertarianism deeper than "let's abolish the stuff that doesn't work."

11:34: Well, that's a nice piece of theater: Jingozian nominates Gravel. I know he's telling his supporters to vote Gravel if he doesn't make it. It's a good fit: These are the two candidates with the most reflexively (accidentally?) liberal values on some tougher issues.

11:41: Gravel might make a powerful, popular LP member in a few years, but boy does he ever not have the jargon down yet. He refers to "you libertarians" and "the miracle you're involved in."

11:44: There's a lot of grumbling from Ruwart backers about Jingozian's move.

11:48: Gravel's giving a hell of a speech, but I have to love the line "the American people are smarter than their leaders: They just don't know it yet!"

11:50: The Barr people just did something stupid. They're doing a Ron Paul-esque march around the hall, in front of C-Span cameras, and it's inspired a wave of heckles and boos. They look, frankly, like assholes. "They're Republicans!" I overhear. "What do you expect?"

11:54: I'm told by Liberty's Andrew Ferguson that Kubby has been approached by basically every candidate as a VP nominee. You've got to love the political poetry of a Barr/Kubby ticket, however unlikely it now seems.

12:24: The TV audience probably has a better seat than me. I've been wondering around for a grasp on what will happen next. Delegate Bill Van Allen is walking the aisles with a Barr sign attached to a Ruwart sign: "Party unity, anybody?" He's arguing that Ruwart will get more attention as Barr's running mate than as the latest in the Marrou-Browne-Badnarik cavalcade o' irrelevance.

12:28: Here comes the state-by-state. Rumor is that Barr will come in third--which could make Root the "mainstream" candidate. He's been telling everybody who'll listen that he's the most popular 2nd choice.

12:34: Everybody's going after Kubby, one of the few candidates who's hinted he'll accept the VP slot. Phillies is probably out.

12:40: In a Libertarian world, there would be no need for endless state party speeches.

12:47: We're heading to a Root-Ruwart lead, with Barr back in third. Root romped in California with 38 votes (we will soon hear) to Ruwart's 20 and Barr's 17.

12:57: Arizona's 8 for Ruwart is pretty week: AZ and Texas have some of the most radical parties. But the support for Ruwart is broad, so she's picking up everywhere. The question is how many of them stay pledged to her.

1:09: Unless there's a huge Jingozian surge, it's a whopping six candidates in the next ballot: Root, Ruwart, Barr, Gravel, Kubby, Phillies.

1:11: A shock: Barr narrowly wins the first round. it's all from delegate replacements.

Barr 153
Ruwart 152
Root 123
Gravel 71
Philies 49
Kubby 41

41 are up for grabs.

1:18: Ruwart's comment: "I'm excited!" Russ Verney says Team Barr is doing what it expected, and waiting for commitments to end after the 2nd ballot.

1:21: Barr on Christine Smith: "I guess I'm not getting her vote."

1:34: The California delegation has voted: Barr gained 4, Root gained 3, and Ruwart stayed at 20 votes. Paul Thompson, the Delawarian who voted for Ron Paul, says he did it "for C-SPAN." He's going for Root now. (I have no problem divulging the "secret ballot" when the man is his entire delegation. You could deduce who he voted for...)

1:37: The second ballot is coming in.

Barr 188
Ruwart 162
Root 138
Gravel 73
Phillies 36
Kubby 32

One vote for none of the above. The Barr vote and Root vote combined is a majority, but don't assume that all Root voters are Barr voters. The anti-Barr vote is very, very strong, and we may start seeing Phillies and Kubby and Gravel voters moving to Ruwart no matter what their candidates say.

1:51: The Barr campaign isn't surprised by the Kubby endorsedment, but they worked for it damn hard. Kubby powerhouse Thomas Knapp is waving a Ruwart sign now, reflecting the endorsement. Barr's people are trying to make up for it by talking to Gravel delegates.

2:06: Overheard Root delegates saying "we'd all get fucked" if "she" led the ticket. Overheard some delegate of unknown provenance asking: "Who wants to be Ruwart's VP?" Sarcastically, I should say.

2:09: Results from the third ballot:

Barr 186
Ruwart 186
Root 146
Gravel 78
Phillies 31

Two votes for none of the above. Barr drops two, Ruwart goes up 24 (2/3 of the Kubby vote), Root goes up eight. Three people who voted in the second ballot didn't vote.

2:14: Worth keeping in mind: Phillies has been incredibly critical of Barr and Ruwart, and his supporters include lots of LGBTs. I expect some movement to Root.

2:16: Phillies speaks, and praises everyone but Barr and Ruwart, as I expected. But: "The enemy is not here. The enemy is out there!" It gets a roaring, screaming ovation. The LaRouche mention was well receieved. (It doesn't happen much these days, but for a while the meme that LaRouche was a libertarian was widespread and really, really irritating.)

2:34: Fourth ballot:

Barr 202
Ruwart 202
Root 149
Gravel 76

It. Never. Stops. The theory that Ruwart's support would peel off after their commitments ended seems to be non-functioning. I have no clue what Gravel will do as he exits the balloting, and I keep asking...

2:38: There's confidence in the Barr camp: They feel they'll get more of the Root vote than Ruwart gets of the Gravel vote.

2:49: I've heard that Gravel voted for Root on this ballot, and that they're gathered in a conference room now pooling their forces. I've seen Barr chatting with Gravel and Ruwart delegates, making the electability case.

2:50: Ran into Wisconsin's Ed Thompson, who says he's supporting Ruwart because "there'll be a lot of disaffected female voters" when Hillary loses. But he'd be happy with Barr.

2:57: Fifth ballot:

Ruwart - 229
Barr - 223
Root - 165

Root will endorse Barr.

3:07: Barr and Root are clustered together, talking to press, acting like they've won. They probably have. Delaware's Ron Paul guy, Paul Thompson, has voted for Barr. "Ruwart, once you look past her answers... they're the simplest things that just don't work."

3:14: Ruwart will endorse Kubby for VP. Get ready for another battle.

3:26: Gravel on why he didn't give a concession speech: "That's not my style." He'll send letters to all of the delegates instead.

3:27: It's all over but the heckling. Ruwart supporters look like they've had their heads shoved underwater: Barr and Root are doing smiley interviews with the national press.

3:30: Bob Barr wins the 2008 Libertarian Party nomination with 324 votes to Ruwart's 276.

4:07: Sorry for the hiatus: I was on C-Span. I'm spending the rest of the day figuring out what the hell Barr and the party are up to next.

4:09: Gotta love AP general knowledge of the LP: "Barr beat research scientist Mary Ruwart, who was the party's presidential nominee in 1983 and vice presidential candidate in 1992." That would have been impressive, if it wasn't totally false.

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  • Eric Dondero||

    Dakota was simply fabulous. And the Mancow surprise was stunning.

    Good job Wayne Root campaign!

  • ||

    Smith was disgusting between her gender and race politics and her name calling of other candidates. Not to mention the guy introducing her looked like he crawled out of a hole. Having her on the stage was an embarrassment for the LP.

  • Jim Ostrowski||

    Barr's speech just now was excellent.

  • James Madison||

    a pretty smug blog entry. Smith is a very good candidate, and I hope she runs again in 2012. And 9/11 is a great issue for the Libertarians, they have 1000 times more followers than reason magazine.

  • Brandybuck||

    And the Mancow surprise was stunning.



    Before you put him on your Christmas list, Eric, remember that this is the guy who said he wanted to marry Ron Paul during an interview with him.

  • ||

    And the Mancow surprise was stunning.

    How the mighty have fallen. From trumpeting pictures of your candidate atop the rubble of the WTC and on the cover of TIME magazine, to holding your breath during an endorsement from a morning radio shock jock, it's been a long and winding road, hasn't it, Herr Dondero?

  • Brandybuck||

    Now that she has come out of the 9/11 Truther closet, I have to drop all support for Smith. I apologize if my previous endorsement of her took any votes away from the other candidates. The LP needs to move forward, and not to pander to lobotomized.

  • Colin||

    You're being far too objective, Dave.

    These Truthers are just one small step above Holocaust deniers.

  • ||

    Ron Paul is fast becoming the Libertarian version of Ronald Reagan. I like him, but it's getting kind of pathetic.

  • Colin||

    Dondero was on some other site saying that if the LP didn't nominate Barr or Root, Libertarians for McCain was to start immediately.

    I kid you not.

  • Brandybuck||

  • Sleep Dirt||

    The 9/11 Truther thing is a great litmus test for idiocy. When I was a kid, a candidate could go on for 20 minutes before saying something to tip off their Occham's Razor defying conspiracy fabulist ways.

  • ||

    These Truthers are just one small step above Holocaust deniers.



    Most Truthere are holocaust deniers. Conspiracies are like Ritz® Crackers. You can't believe just one. Given enough time, any random Truther will end up believing a dozen wacky theories, from Roswell, to the Protocols of Zion, to the Elks Lodge Conspiracy.

  • William of Okkam||

    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a conspiracy.

  • Kolohe||

    I haven't seen Mancow in years, since I no longer am in the right time zone for Fox & Friends.

    I thought he was in the Dennis Miller "I'm a Libertarian but Muslims are Scary" camp? Maybe I'm misremembering his views or he's changed.

  • Boston||

    Chris Potter, seconded.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Yes, where's the news in that. Of course, Libertarians will be launched shortly if Barr or Root do not win the nomination.

    Why should you be surprised?

    Give me an argument please why any mainstream libertarian would want to support an Anarchist Leftwinger America-hater like Mary Ruwart for President?

    Why would any mainstream libertarian want to support the Pot candidate, or the chic with the red hair who gives and awful speech and has guys she just met and picked up at the convention nominate her before a national C-SPAN audience?

  • Eric Dondero||

    Of course, I meant to say Libertarians for McCain will be launched. Blogging with an eye on C-SPAN.

  • ||

    Boston,

    The Phillies people just did it too! At least they let Ronald Reagan die before Republican candidates who fought against what he was doing started trying to co-opt his popularity.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Ruwart's speech was very weak. I'm feeling more confident now for a Barr or Root nomination. But Kubby could be a wild card?

    The other Marijuana guys are supporting Barr. This could get very interesting.

  • ||

    I meant to say Libertarians for McCain will be launched.

    Which planet are they being launched to?

  • NoMoreImportantLibertarianIssu||

    A heavy emphasis on gay marriage in all their comments, some of it very personal.

  • Boston||

    She seemed to mention him more than anyone else last night too. Does she have some sort of connection with him? Cause it would seem he would have more in common with Barr, barring (ahem) the more virulent anti-war sentiment.

  • Colin||

    Libertarians for McCain . . . the mother of all oxymorons.

  • Jennifer||

    The speaker's pushing the "women want to vote for a woman" argument

    Trying to overcome the LP's "sausage party" reputation, I see.

  • Kolohe||

    11:01: That was truly odd. Phillies' speakers went on for so long that he talked for less than a minute.

    I've been flipping back and forth between Indy and C-Span. It seems all the nominators are speaking longer than the nominees. The Kubby introduction has taken long enough to watch a buggler, Jim Neighbor, start your engines, and the warmup laps.

  • ||

    What do you mean by saying that she's a 'leftwinger'? Or, hell, 'America-hater'?

  • ||

    Ron Paul - check

    Revolution - check

  • ||

    "I have never seen a candidate with such rock star status as Michael Jingozian"

    Did he steal a rough draft of Root's speech and do a search-and-replace?

  • Boston||

    Also he did a commerical with powerpoint. Better than the Badnarik commericals though.

  • ||

    Uh, we've already seen this part. Looks like Jingozian started his campaign video in the middle...how embarrassing.

  • ||

    This is really long and lame.

  • Boston||

    HEY! he emailed a bunch of people in less than a week. That demands respect.

  • D.A. Ridgely||

    Give me an argument please why any mainstream libertarian would want to support an Anarchist Leftwinger America-hater like Mary Ruwart for President?

    She hasn't mentioned her continued availability in case Bob Barr is assassinated?

  • ||

    What the heck, Weigel? Are you asleep? There's a candidate begging to be made fun of up there!

  • Kolohe||

    "and technology that rivals the best of the Democratic and Republican candidates"

    You know, mass marketing isn't rocket surgery. I'm mean, it's run by marketing people.

  • David Weigel||

    Eric, whether or not Ruwart gives a good speech is immaterial to her support.

  • ||

    Ron Paul - check

    If it was spelled Pòl, you might have your True Scotsman.

  • Kolohe||

    Hint, doon't make tiping miss steaks when insulting others's intelligence.

  • ||

    Give me an argument please why any mainstream libertarian would want to support an Anarchist Leftwinger America-hater like Mary Ruwart for President?

    Why would any mainstream libertarian want to support the Pot candidate, or the chic with the red hair who gives and awful speech and has guys she just met and picked up at the convention nominate her before a national C-SPAN audience?


    Why would any libertarian-- mainstream or not-- support a neocon authoritarian warmonger like John McCain?

  • WTF???||

    That ridiculous video pissed me off. I'm switching to the Cubs game.

  • Boston||

    WTF??,

    I don't think Ted Lilly is going to help your anger issue.

  • ||

    I really think Weigel and I are at very different conventions. Sure I see him wander in now and then and sit down but his descriptions and what I'm seeing are not the same thing. I've read his stuff before and never had reason to doubt the veracity of what he writes -- until now. I think he is coloring things with his personal opinions so much that it distorts his reporting.

    Certainly for much of the reporting on the nomination process he was sitting in front of the Barr booth with a TV screen and not in the hall itself. That distorts the view of what is happening inside the hall.

    I think Barr is much weaker than expected here. And I'm suspecting he will try to deal with Ruwart. His last minute conversion on his antigay views are too little too late for a lot of delegtes.

    It might have helped if Reason had a couple of people blogging on the convention to give more perspective. Weigel is too narrowly focused and his views seem to color his article so that readers here are being a disservice.

  • ||

    Jingozian barely made it through his own speech without bursting into tears, now he's going to nominate Gravel?

    And Gravel was the only presidential candidate talking about the evils of the two parties and the military-industrial complex? You sir, fail the Ron Paul check test.

  • Dog\'s New Clothes||

    I don't think this Jingozian endorsement will help Gravel.

  • Boston||

    Its easy not to mention Paul, when you are speaking for the other guy.

  • David Weigel||

    Certainly for much of the reporting on the nomination process he was sitting in front of the Barr booth with a TV screen and not in the hall itself.

    That's a lie. I watched the Barr speech from the Barr booth because I couldn't get internet from the hall. Once I could, I re-situated in the main hall, left of the Texas delegation. I've been there since Christine Smith.

  • Kolohe||

    Wait, I just switched back. Did one of the candidates (jingozian) just nominate another person for candidate? afaik you don't see that at the rep/dem convention.

  • ||

    Mike Gravel's trying the majority-must-rule shtick again. Has anybody told him yet that that's exact opposite of libertarianism?

  • ||

    Did anyone just see the hippie with the "V" mask on? Lord.

    David, you're doin a hell of job.

  • ||

    He refers to "you libertarians" and "the miracle you're involved in."

    Weren't you criticizing him for saying "we libertarians" last night?

  • D.A. Ridgely||

    Ah, a rambling, barely coherent semi-senile candidate! That's the ticket!

  • ||

    Somehow I doubt we'll be seeing Gravel/Jingozian '08

  • ||

    Did anyone just see the hippie with the "V" mask on? Lord.

    If Hugo Weaving had been born in the US, he could definitely make a run for the nomination, just on the strength of his voice.

  • Boston||

    Gravel i like you man, but your crazy man.

  • ||

    What the hell is Gravel talkin about? Nothing "Libertarian" at all in his speech.

  • ||

    Chris, him or James Earl Jones.

  • ||

    I think David is doing fine. Keep in mind that unlike most people blogging there, he's primarily focused on the article(s) he'll write about the convention, not the liveblogging part. I'm sure his final product will be of the high quality I've come to expect from reason.

  • ||

    Of course, I meant to say Libertarians for McCain will be launched.

    Don't let the door hit you on the wat out. If I never read or hear another word by or about Donderooo0ooooo, I'd be mightily pleased.

    I almost started listing the reasons that McCain is unacceptable to anyone serious aboout libertarian issues. It then dawned on me that, with the exception of mental midgets, it's already a given.

    Seriously Eric, go away.

  • ||

    The Barr campaign might have the least class of any campaign ever.

  • ||

    This is the same Dondero who was crowing about the "libertarian" Rudy Giuliani and how he was going to smash "authoritarian" Hillary Clinton in the general election a few months ago.

    Hell hath no fury like a Congressional staffer scorned.

  • ||

    What the hell are those Bob Barr people doing? Are they fucking insane?!

  • ||

    Nice to see that Florida got seated.

  • ||

    What the hell are those Bob Barr people doing? Are they fucking insane?!

    Are they trying to piss as many people off as possible? Maybe Barr doesn't want the nomination.

  • Colin||

    I wonder if delegates had to check their weapons at the door. If Barr wins, there might be a shootout.

    Boy, this is fun!

  • D.A. Ridgely||

    The Barr campaign might have the least class of any campaign ever.

    Haven't been following Hillary, have you?

  • ||

    What's going on with Barr?

  • ||

    This has been the most interesting LP convention since 1988. I was at the '88 convention, but I don't recall seeing Dondero there. He might have been in his boss's hospitality suite getting drunk though.

    Frankly, I'm split between the Reformers and the Radicals. I used to be with the RtLP, but Milsted is an ass. I'm a radical minarchist in philosophy, but the reality we live demands pragmatism. Holtz's fake flyers hit close to home. You're never going to get more than 0.5% of the vote if the LP insists on privatizing nuclear weapons and legalizing child pornography. Let's legalize pot before we start demanding the right to sell heroin to kindergartners!

  • ||

    Andy,

    While the chairman was introducing the voting process, a bunch of people started walking in front of the dais holding up Bob Barr signs in front of the chairman. There was an eruption of boos from the audience.

  • ||

    Oh, wow. Surely Barr himself didn't order that? Remembering the Paul campaign, my first reaction is "supporters out of control".

    I hope they didn't hurt him. Being a rather radical minarchist myself, I'm still hoping he gets the nomination. He could do wonders for the party.

  • Guy Montag||

    Good thing the ladies of the L party are not watching the Indy 500. Would be much squeeking I suspect.

  • Matt Welch||

    Can we have any bets here before the voting gets started?

  • Matt Welch||

    How *is* Danica doing, big Guy?

  • Guy Montag||

    From these descriptions of the conventioneers bahavior, it sounds like a bunch of Democrats, without the manners.

  • Matt Welch||

    Here comes Weigel on C-SPAN again!

  • ||

    I'm with you Andy. Barr, may not be the "purist" that the radical section wants, but he could bring in a huge number of voters.

  • D.A. Ridgely||

    Let's legalize pot before we start demanding the right to sell heroin to kindergartners!

    NEVER! IDEOLOGICAL PURITY OR DEATH! I SAY ONE MAN, ONE NUKE! CHILD PORN BANS ARE RESTRAINT OF TRADE! ZONING LAWS AGAINST USING MY BACKYARD AS A TOXIC WASTE DUMP IS AN ILLEGAL TAKING! COMPUTERS WITH LOWER CASE TYPE ARE TOOLS OF THE 9/11 COVER UP! I CAN HAZ CHEEZBURGER! ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO ME!

  • ||

    LMAO !!!!

  • Guy Montag||

    MW,

    She is always fine! Hottest chick who has never known of my existance.

    Oh, um, she is running 11th right now, has been in the top 15 or better the whole race as far as I have noticed.

    The feminazis would be upset with the mishaps of Ms. Fisher. Lots of Truther opportunity there. Especially after she spun herself out in a turn, behind the pace car, during a caution.

  • Aleanto||

    Ruwart, second ballot.

  • D.A. Ridgely||

    Can we have any bets here before the voting gets started?

    I'm betting whoever gets nominated doesn't get elected.

  • Guy Montag||

    Matt,

    You didn't send Mr. Balko to cover the Indy race? For shame, for Cosmotarian shame!

  • Kolohe||

    Good thing the ladies of the L party are not watching the Indy 500. Would be much squeeking I suspect.

    One of the ladies of the Indy 500 managed to spin out under a yellow flag. That's surely a Libertarian Party level of auto-trepanation.

    (Thanks for the word, whomever wrote this the other day (Brandybuck?))

  • Guy Montag||

    DAR,

    I'm betting whoever gets nominated doesn't get elected.

    I bet that whomever is nominated does not win a single State or DC.

  • ||

    Something tells me that the Barr parade was Russ Verney's doing. Just like Ted McGinley kills television shows, so does Russ Verney kill political parties. From his antics back in the Reform Party, chasing out Jesse Ventura and Jack Gargan, bringing in and then going after Pat Buchanan, flirting with Donald Trump and John Haeglin to now the obnoxious Barr campaign.

    Watch out Constitution Party when Russ shows up to manage a campaign in 2012!

  • ||

    Chris, him or James Earl Jones.

    Or Daniel Day-Lewis or Morgan Freeman.

  • Kolohe||

    It sounds like their making bets on the convention floor too.

  • ||

    Barr-Mary?

  • Kris Overstreet||

    I'm predicting Ruwart the early leader, but the longer the votes go, the more it favors Barr. The question is whether Barr or Root ends up third when the time comes. Root will back Barr over Ruwart, but Barr...?

  • ||

    Root would have won if he convinced people of taking the free undercoating and no down payment.

  • Guy Montag||

    Is that an Anime convention on the front row of tables?

  • ||

    Root would have won if he convinced people of taking the free undercoating and no down payment.

    zing! I'm glad someone finally said it.

  • Kolohe||

    Shouldn't true libertarians bring their own damn lunch?

    Or have someone walking through selling turkey bacon wraps?

  • Guy Montag||

    I knew the Marxist had infiltrated. Groucho is counting the votes!

  • Kolohe||

    This is great!

    "Wayne Allen Root got ZERO? From Nevada ?!"

  • effay||

    Who are these guys counting the votes?

  • Matt Welch||

    Root got zero votes in Nevada! But 38 from California! (According to watching them try to figure it out live on C-SPAN.) It's all very exciting.

  • effay||

    Isn't Root supposed to be some sort of celebrity in Nevada or something and he gets no votes? Wha?

  • ||

    Root got 0 in Nevada!

    This is fascinating, watching party apparatchiks plug the vote totals into an Excel spreadsheet.

    "you should put a sum cell at the bottom"

    "no, don't hit undo!"

    "it's in alphabetical order. Nevada. N-V. Right there."

  • Matt Welch||

    "Close enough"? Where's KPMG!

  • effay||

    Do they vote for party chair after all the President stuff, or have they already done that?

  • Guy Montag||

    Kolohe, Matt, effay,

    Sounds like time for yet another juicy conspiricy :)

    Karl Rove plot just like Florida and Ohio?

  • effay||

    Wow, beating Phillies is something Mike.

  • Guy Montag||

    Didn't someone just say "you need to carry the one"? I don't think they are using Excel.

  • chinsy||

    Welch, Weigel:

    Lay the odds. I'm willing to put up a pair of Phillies (the baseball team, not the candidate) tickets for something of equal? value.

  • Kolohe||

    I've only heard Root speak for the first time this weekend. If I had to listen to him for years (like a Nevadan), my visceral dislike for him would be immeasurable.

  • ||

    Young Nick Gillespie is at the counting table!

  • D.A. Ridgely||

    "Close enough"? Where's KPMG!

    I hear the results have been kept since noon today in a mayonnaise jar on Funk & Wagnalls' porch.

    Nothing personal, Mr. Weigel, but I'm starting a petition right now to have reason send Triumph the Insult Comic to the next convention. If Triump can't make it, perhaps Yakov Smirnoff? ("In former Soviet Union, people give rat's ass about liberty!")

  • effay||

    Way to cut costs on paper Bill.

  • Jennifer||

    Don't let the door hit you on the wat out. If I never read or hear another word by or about Donderooo0ooooo, I'd be mightily pleased.

    Hush now, J sub D, such ignorance unbecomes you. Dondero is what petroleum was back in the year 1800: icky-sticky yucky glop, yes, but considered an annoying nuisance only because people didn't yet realize what an awesome and wonderful untapped power resource they had.

    You know those Twilight Zone-type stories where a writer finds a magic pen or magic typewriter, and everything he writes with it comes true? Dondero's exactly like that, only in reverse.

    Eric--
    I've been having some very crummy luck lately. Care to help a libertarian sister out? Please go to various blogs and type comments like "Jennifer's luck will never improve" or "Jennifer will never vote for a candidate who actually wins" or "Jennifer's favorite dark-green rhinestone barrette is lost forever so she may as well stop looking for it and simply accept the fact that the rest of her life is going to have a big dark-green-rhinestone-barrette-shaped hole in it."

    Also: "This week, Jennifer will not learn that some long-lost relative she never knew she had just died and left her a multi-billion-dollar fortune."

  • ||

    The tragedy of the commons is at work on the paper supply, apparently. Tell Jingozian.

  • effay||

    Cut out the state speeches for God's sake. This is going to take forever.

  • Matt Welch||

    None of the Above! That is awesome!

  • ||

    Don't tell me every state is going to make a speech. And what alphabet are they using, where New Hampshire is first, and New York comes before New Jersey?

  • Kolohe||

    Mr Chairman, you're making it awfully hard to not evaluate you're running a chickenshit operation.

  • Matt Welch||

    Barr with no votes after 3 states?

  • Kolohe||

    They randomized the starting state, but then are doing roll call in alphabetical order.

  • Kolohe||

    Weigel, so much for not taking forever. :)

  • Guy Montag||

    Indy is in another caution (some rookie in an orange car), but commercials are better than State speeches at a convention.

  • Colin||

    No Libertarians in ND?

  • Kolohe||

    How can North Dakota have no delegates? It's not like they're travelling further than most.

  • ||

    Wake me up when Nebraska's up. Sheesh.

  • effay||

    Hooray for OK and expedience.

  • Colin||

    Anyone keeping count?

  • ||

    Yeah, whatever. Oregon doesn't let you pump your own gas, so bite me. This doesn't look good for Barr, BTW.

  • Colin||

    Penn!

  • Kolohe||

    This is going to be a ten-way tie with all the write-ins.

  • ||

    Penn Gillette 3!

  • Guy Montag||

    Anyone keeping count?

    I think the guy sitting next to Groucho Marx. However, with all of those Truthers there, it will not matter what the count is.

  • ||

    Colin,

    Looks like Ruwart, Root, and Gravel (?!) have the most so far. Barr has almost nothing.

  • Guy Montag||

    CP,

    Oregon and NJ are much closer than I ever thought.

  • Kolohe||

    It seems so far Ruwart is leading, where there is a decisive state vote split, Ruwart has some 4 states, but Barr has 1 (SC)

  • ||

    I am changing my opinion about Utah. Is it perhaps the home to the most self-deprecating libertarians on Earth?

  • Kolohe||

    Barr won VA, so that gives him two states.

  • Kolohe||

    I wonder how much Gravel is drawing off from Barr

  • ||

    To me, the big surprise is the number of votes Gravel is getting.

  • Kolohe||

    Barr is like the Huckabee of this campaign, he's only winning the south (even though he failed in NC)

  • ||

    Arkansas votes for Imperato!!!

  • ||

    Root carried California. Wow.

  • ||

    Root.


    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

  • ||

    I wonder if the LP is making the same mistake the Dems made last year -- nominating someone they think other voters will find appealing (Root).

  • ||

    Is Root really going to win? Shoot me now.

  • ||

    Pleeeease let it be Gravel.

  • Colin||

    I think Barr is catching up.

  • Kolohe||

    That Ga near sweep really makes up some ground for Barr.

  • ||

    He's not going to get a majority on this ballot. But he is going to be way ahead of the other "pragmatic" candidate, Barr.

  • ||

    Barr, of course, took Georgia with 33.

  • ||

    Illinois' motto is "National Union, State Sovereignty." The nickname is The Prairie State.

  • ||

    I might choke a bitch if I have to hear another nom vote for Ron Paul.

  • ||

    Phillies got 5 from MD? I'm embarrassed right now.

  • Colin||

    Paul might beat Kubby.

  • Kolohe||

    fwiw, the mass rep is what i always imagined joe boyle looks like.

  • ||

    I'm amazed that Weigel has managed to stay awake during this.

  • ||

    why am I getting the sinking feeling that Barr isn't going to make it?

  • ||

    why am I getting the sinking feeling that Barr isn't going to make it?

    Maybe things will turn around on the second ballot.

  • Kolohe||

    *drumroll*

  • ||

    Wooo!

  • Colin||

    Gravel wins in NV!

  • Kolohe||

    A narrow lead for Barr, I was expecting him to be closer to roots.

  • ||

    hey, Barr ties Ruwart (well, he's up by 1 delegate).

  • Colin||

    Strange how Barr got the most votes.

  • ||

    I thought the same thing...thank goodness for Georgia.

  • Colin||

    Bets anyone?

  • ||

    Red state fascist takeover.

    FUCK NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ||

    Ruwart is the only radical in the top 4. That means there weren't a whole lot of votes likely to swing her way. Root's bloc, on the other hand, will almost all go to Barr. Which gives him ~45%.

  • Zorgon||

    If all of Jingozians votes go to Gravel, he could be right up there with the others.

  • Taktix®||

    I just realized Weigel was time stamping in MST. Doh!

    Also, the long anticipated footage of my band's anti-drug War song, Money Game.

    Just in time for the convention...

  • ||

    I've opnly got sound and no video since the stream on the C-Span website doesn't work properly for me. Anyone can post the number of votes in the first round? Ruwart was number one, right?

  • Taktix®||

    ...anti-Drug War, rather...

  • ||

    I'm getting a spreadsheet ready for the second ballot. I'm pathetic, I know.

  • ||

    Ok, the comments above me answer my question.

  • BakedPenguin||

    If all of Jingozians votes go to Gravel, he could be right up there with the others.

    He's only down by two?

  • ||

    Chrissy takes it to Barr!

    GO!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ||

    Christine Smith is such a good sport.

  • Kolohe||

    Jesus christ Mr Chairman, you can't find another fricking laptop?!

  • Eric Dondero||

    Oh my God! Did you all see that???

    That was the nastiness moment at an LP Convention in history.

    That will backfire on the Leftwing Anarchists. Big boost for Barr. Thanks Christine!!

  • ||

    dear god, someone fucking shoot Christine Smith and do the world a favor.

  • Colin||

    Smith shrewdly angling for a position in the Barr administration.

  • ||

    What an ungracious biatch. That little hissy-fit probably helped Barr.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Yes, I agree, Mike Gravel is in a very good position right now, and could actually win this thing.

    I know it's wierd, but I like the guy's personality. Don't like many of his views. But he's a blast.

  • ||

    From the first ballot:

    Barr 153
    Ruwart 152
    Root 123
    Gravel 71
    Phillies 49
    Kubby 41
    Jingo 23
    Smith 6

    And Christine Smith is still going off at Microphone #3

  • ||

    Dondero clearly doesn't remember 1983.

  • ||

    I might choke a bitch if I have to hear another nom vote for Ron Paul.

    I know who that bitch should be...

  • ||

    Christine Smith, is ripping Barr on C-Span right now. My lord, what a whiny woman.

  • ||

    god, GET HER OFF CAMERA.

    SHE's the kind of thing we don't want people seeing.

    Though I don't think too many people are watching CSPAN other than Libertarians anyway at the moment.

  • Aleanto||

    You stay classy, Christine.

  • Eric Dondero||

    She's starting to look like a sore loser. Now she's almost in tears.

  • Colin||

    For once I agree with Dondero.

  • ||

    Smith shrewdly angling for a position in the Barr administration.

    Heh. This is highly entertaining. Good to see Jingozian claiming that he and Gravel could win the general election!

  • Kolohe||

    "hope not votes!"

  • ||

    Adamness - lol.

    now we've got some harpy woman going on and on about how Barr is the Debil.

    How about Barr/Gravel? That'd be a trip.

  • Kolohe||

    It's pretty frackin bad when *c-span* cuts away from you because you're just running on.

  • Zorgon||

    Baked Penguin, gravel is in 4th, with 71 votes. With Jingozians support, he should be up around 100. I have no idea where the Christine Smith votes are going, though. They are pretty irrelevant.

  • ||

    Barr + Root is a greater total, by about thirty, than Ruwart+Kubby+Phillies.

    God, Gravel might actually be the king-maker.

  • Eric Dondero||

    No, no, keep her on camera. She's helping Bob Barr to win this nomination.

    This may go down in history as the most historic moment in LP history. She may have just single-handidly handed the nomination to Bob Barr with her tirade in front of a national C-SPAN audience.

    Thanks Christine! Thanks for helping to keep the Libertarian Party Pro-Defense, and not turn it into a haven for Leftwing Anarchists.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Andy, I'm not so sure Phillies supporters will swing to Ruwart. Phillies has an independent streak, and he's personally on a friendly basis with Wayne Root.

    Anything could happen.

  • Colin||

    Barr/Gravel would be a great ticket -- or at least, a greatly entertaining ticket.

  • ||

    which would be hilarious since there's not really anything any one could give him that he wouldn't reject.

    I predict him dragging this on like Hillary if it comes down to Barr vs. Ruwart with his supporters holding the balance.

  • ||

    I know Phillies isn't technically a "radical", but I think him and his supporters do lean that way.

    Anyway, of course just adding totals from the 1st ballot like that is useless as anything but a rough guess.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Zorgon, that was a joke - about Jingozian.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Andy, no I don't remember '83. I was a delegate to the '87 Convention, though. In '83 I was out on a ship in the Persian Gulf.

    But Andy, I bet this rivals '83 in excitement. Certainly better than 2003.

  • ||

    we're going to have to see if Root hemorrhages supporters to Barr on this one. That might nail this one down pretty quick, if Root's people get faithless on him.

  • Colin||

    I've been watching political conventions for decades, but none have been as fun as this one.

  • ||

    Barr's joking on Christine Smith now :-D ha ha ha...hilarity ensues.

  • ||

    I wonder if the people who voted Ron Paul on the first ballot are going to continue doing so, or if they were just trying to get his name on the screen at the end.

  • Colin||

    Chris, are those votes just counted as "NOTA"?

  • ||

    Potter - I would guess they'll go for Barr on the second ballot

  • ||

    '83 is where we had the moderates walk out. It's part of the whole (sometimes overexaggerated) "split" between Rothbardian/Austrian School purists and Friedman moderates like CATO and reason. No matter what happens here, I'm not expecting a walk-out of any size.

    /Smith and her 6 delegates don't count

  • ||

    Colin,

    No, there were only 2 NOTA votes on the first ballot. They said there were 10 write-ins which weren't put up on the screen.

  • ||

    Gravel asking about if he'll get kicked off the ballot on live TV!

    Heh.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Colin, I fully agree. This is the best political convention of any political party that I've ever seen. LP HQ staff and Redpath deserve a great deal of credit. Bet that cinches Redpath for Chair again.

    Man, my heart is beating 100 taps per minute.

    Go Bob Barr!!

    Go Wayne Root!!

  • ||

    Gravel is a lot more appealing when he's not on stage.

  • Dog\'s New Clothes||

    Gravel gets support from a Phillies supporter after this ballot. That could definitely help him.

  • ||

    The man and husband from MA are saying they'll switch to Gravel after Phillies is eliminated.

  • ||

    Good job, Mr. Chairman.

    /just announce the damn totals!

  • Guy Montag||

    OT: Patrick was in the top 10 when some rookie in the McDonald's car wrecked out and caused a caution.

    More OT: The Krystal's in Salem, VA has closed. Closest Krystal to DC is now Bristol, TN, IIRC.

  • ||

    Barr!

  • ||

    How did Phillies beat Kubby?

  • ||

    Shame about Kubby, though. I like him and think he'd make a great running mate for Barr.

  • ||

    Drama - They're doing it wrong.

  • ||

    Second ballot (provisional):

    Barr 188
    Ruwart 162
    Root 138
    Gravel 73
    Phillies 36
    Kubby 32 [OUT]

  • ||

    Real professional lookin'.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Gravel may end up being the Kingmaker.

    Bet he's cut a deal with Barr for VP.

  • ||

    Stephen Colbert. ROFLMAO

  • BakedPenguin||

    Adamness - I was wondering the same thing. Log Cabin Libertarians?

  • Dog\'s New Clothes||

    Kubby is gone. I liked him, but he seems to have a decent chance at VP.

    Kubby could be a good pick for Barr as VP to shore up his Drug War cred, but it depends on how Kubby tells his supporters to vote.

  • ||

    Change from first ballot:

    Barr +35
    Ruwart +10
    Root +15
    Gravel +2
    Phillies -13
    Kubby -9

  • Colin||

    Gravel's a good guy. I hope he stays with libertarianism. Even if we don't agree with him on lots of things.

  • ||

    Bet he's cut a deal with Barr for VP.

    I don't like that idea. I'm a Barr supporter, but I think he'd need someone with a bit more history with the party and ideas than Gravel.

  • Kolohe||

    Memo to those who voted NOTA, esp on the first ballot:

    Grow up.

    V/R
    Kolohe

  • Eric Dondero||

    I think the Barr/Root Mainstream Libertarians might have this thing won. Even if all the Leftwingers side with Ruwart - which they won't - Barr/Root is still ahead with 186.

  • ||

    Gravel has pretty explicitly- and angrily, as usual- said that he won't accept VP slot.

    When he first announced I thouht Barr/Gravel would be great. Having seen how frighteningly unlibertarian Gravel is, particularly his hard-on for majority rule and big-government social programs, I don't think I'd be very happy with that now.

  • Colin||

    I wonder how much of that +35 for Barr was directly related to Christine.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Holy Shit Chris! Thanks for those numbers. That says it all. Major pick-up for Bob Barr.

  • Kolohe||

    I should add I think write-ins, vice NOTA are OK.

  • ||

    Note that Gravel only gained 2 delegates, despite Jingozian (23 first ballot delegates) endorsing him.

  • ||

    (Thanks for the word, whomever wrote this the other day (Brandybuck?))



    Yes, that was me. I aquired it from an episode of Dead Like Me.

  • Dog\'s New Clothes||

    Don't pick on George Phillies!

  • ||

    Makes sense, but extremely assholish of the guy to say that about Phillies.

  • Dog\'s New Clothes||

    West Virginia once again ruins everything

  • Kolohe||

    Finally the chairman handles a situation with aplomb (the drop phillies motion)

    But then blows it with the WV thing

  • ||

    I just toked up in honor of Kubby. He's a great guy.

  • ||

    This is how you make a concession speech. Take notes, Shrew Smith.

  • ||

    Phillies should have been the one asking for himself to be dropped after getting 6%. Given his, er, personality, I wouldn't expect it though.

  • ||

    except he's going to endorse Ruwart.

  • ||

    Kubby gives his support to Ruwart

  • Dog\'s New Clothes||

    There goes Kubby as VP.

  • ||

    At least he was classy about it.

  • ||

    Kubby goes RuWARt.

    GOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!!

  • ||

    I don't think any one watching CSPAN right now doesn't know about the LP.

  • BakedPenguin||

    No surprise on Kubby's Ruwart endorsement.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Ouch! That hurt. If Barr can overcome the Kubby endorsement of Ruwart on the 3rd ballot he wins.

  • ||

    So much for the kind words between Kubby and Barr last night.

  • ||

    If Ruwart wins, you guys think Kubby will be her running mate?

  • Eric Dondero||

    Rob Kampia's Marijuana dudes like Barr. So, they may not follow Kubby to Ruwart.

  • Aleanto||

    I called it. Phillies, Kubby, and Gravel's supporters are all going to see the Barr lead and immediately jump to Ruwart. If I were Barr I'd offer Root the VP slot right now.

  • Colin||

    What's the over/under on the number of ballots?

  • ||

    All of Kubby's votes this ballot are only about the same as the current gap between Barr and Ruwart- and that's before Root's support goes to Barr.

  • D.A. Ridgely||

    Hey wait a minute, isn't Kubby going to sing one last song?

  • ||

    lp.org has a "live" (but not really) count of everything.

  • ||

    God help me, Dondero is supporting the same guy I am.

  • Colin||

    Boy, this guy is boring.

  • Eric Dondero||

    God help me, Chris Potter is supporting the same guy I am.

  • ||

    I went away from the tv for a bit after the Phillies thing What happened with West Virginia?

  • ||

    I'm somewhat baffled how you can support Barr as the LP nominee but fought tooth and nail against Paul in favor of Rudy "freedom is about authority" Giuliani.

  • ||

    They just wanted to see their results because they claimed they hadn't been shown on screen for them to confirm.

    No errors in them.

  • ||

    Why is this guy giving a speech during the balloting?

  • BakedPenguin||

    JD - Redpath had someone put up the numbers, and the WV guy went away happy.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Andy Craig, I'm baffled as to how Anti-Defense Libertarians and Ron Paulists could support Bob Barr, since he's an "evil" Republican, and supports a Strong Defense and the Military. Please explain?

  • ||

    Joe Johnson is making me miss Christine Smith.

  • Dog\'s New Clothes||

    Wow, this guy is dull. Couldn't they have found a better elected Libertarian?

  • ||

    He's more or less said the same thing Paul has as far as withdrawing American forces from the 130+ countries they're in, just with a (what I find acceptable and reasonable) caveat that in some places it'd be best to do it gradually rather than suddenly.

  • ||

    '83 is where we had the moderates walk out. It's part of the whole (sometimes overexaggerated) "split" between Rothbardian/Austrian School purists and Friedman moderates like CATO and reason.



    The split wasn't between purists and moderates, because in the next election you had the purist Rothbardians backing a mainstream Ron Paul while the moderates were backing the anarchist Russell Means. The split was instead between paleos and cosmos, even though those terms had not yet been devised. One wing of the party supported a white male monogamous Christian, while the other supported a native American separatist who bragged how good he was in bed. Funny thing though, except for advocating a government mandated gold standard, the two had remarkably similar views.

  • ||

    Dondero,

    Doesn't Barr want to withdraw from Iraq?

    Of course, such a position doesn't contradict a belief in a StrongDefense anyway.

  • Kolohe||

    They should have got Penn Jillette or at least Drew Carey to do between ballot entertainment instead of colorado american flag tie dude.

  • ||

    If I happened to turn on CSPAN and saw this guy droning on and on, I don't think I'd ever want to have anything to do with the LP.

  • Colin||

    Yes, please bring back Christine. Please!

  • Kolohe||

    Although it was nice that Indy had a spectacular wreck a few minutes ago.

  • ||

    Well, they do not. We oppose the Military and standing armies.

  • Colin||

    This reminds me of Clinton's speech at the '88 Democratic Convention.

    That means this dude will be the '12 nominee.

  • Hayekian Dreamer||

    Dondero - Define "Anti-defense" and "Strong Defense" considering Barr's position (from his platform):

    # Our National Defense policy must renew a commitment to non-intervention. We are not the world's police force and our long, yet recently tarnished, tradition of respecting the sovereignty of other nations is necessary, not from only a moral standpoint, but to regain the respect of the world as a principled and peaceful nation.
    # The proper use of force is clear. If attacked, the aggressor will experience firsthand the skillful wrath of the American fighting man. However, invading or initiating force against another nation based upon perceived threats and speculative intelligence is simply un-American. We are better than the policy of pre-emptive warfare


    That seems essentially identical to Paul's position. I think most libertarians are for a "strong defense" of US soil, not of foreign soil.

  • Dog\'s New Clothes||

    Joe Johnson:

    "I have a dream...blah blah blah..."

  • nj||

    Barr sounded a lot like Paul in yesterday's debate ( making the point about withdrawing American forces around the world). He has denounced the Iraq war and the patriot act. It it is kind of odd to see Dondero get on his bandwagon.

  • ||

    his point shouldn't be lost, though. I get the idea that the LP doesn't "follow through" with its candidates...it gets them elected and then forgets about them.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Chris, doesn't just about every American including our President want to "withdraw" from Iraq?

    We're getting closer and closer to that day. The Iraqis are taking on more and more responsibility. I think starting this summer seems like a reasonable time table.

    We've won not only the War, but the occupation, as well. Glorious victories for the United States of America.

    Make damn sure you thank a returning Vet if you see him/her in the airport for a job well done.

  • Guy Montag||

    Yea, bouncing off the wall in turn 4, spinning down pit road and taking out the pit-speed timer was interesting.

  • ||

    I've always wondered why the LP hasn't reached out to Drew, Penn & Teller. The latter in particular have indicated their support for the party.

    They could maybe even get Stossel. He spoke at the Freedom Forum in New Hampshire, put on by the FSP.

  • ||

    "Glorious victories for the United States of America."

    Ok, Borat.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Bob Barr has been asked repeatedly to denounce his support for our Troops, and to sign goofy conspitorialist pledges about 9/11. He's declined each and every time.

    Is he a hardcore "Pro-Defense" Libertarian? No.

    He's a middle-of-the-roader, and that's just fine.

  • ||

    Ruwart doesn't seem like she'd run with Barr...

  • Eric Dondero||

    Hmmn? Hadn't heard Bob Barr blame America for the attacks of 9/11 like Ron Paul, have you??

  • Colin||

    Ruwart's showing her colors by talking negative about Barr instead of talking positively about herself.

  • ||

    This lady on the TV is an idiot. "He said he wouldn't vote to legalize crack!"...lady, Barr wouldn't be voting FOR a goddamn thing. We don't need more laws; we need less.

    I can't believe these people think that Barr needs to "vote for legalization". Yikes.

  • Hayekian Dreamer ||

    Dondero - His position is identical to Paul (who has said he supports the troops as well and hasn't signed a conspiracy pledge either)

  • Colin||

    Wouldn't it be great if Borat showed up right now.

  • ||

    I didn't know that was Ruwart.

    something is wrong with her...she thinks she stand better-poised to tap into Ron Paul's support than Barr? What planet does she live on?

  • Kolohe||

    Dr Ruwart, the media coverage greyed/blacked out due to underwhelming electoral success. The moneybombs got a lot of cable news attention.

  • ||

    I'm baffled as to how Anti-Defense Libertarians and Ron Paulists could support Bob Barr, since he's an "evil" Republican, and supports a Strong Defense and the Military. Please explain?



    Easy to explain. Unlike you, we aren't single issue voters. Ron Paul stood for much much more than just getting out of Iraq. Ron Paul wants a strong military, he just doesn't want it to be a tool of foreign interventionism. The nation state of Iraq was never a threat to us.

    Bob Barr has admitted his error in supporting the PATRIOT act. Not only does he advocate getting out of Iraq, he admits it was a mistake getting in.

    Oh, and Ron Paul is an "evil" Republican too.

  • ||

    Mary Ruwart is saying the Ron Paul people would be scared away by "LP nominates Patriot Act supporter" headlines. Like there would even be headlines about this...

  • ||

    if it comes down a Barr/Ruwart/Root ballot, if by some chance Barr and Root haven't struck a deal before, Ruwart needs to drop out and have all the radicals vote NOTA. that would leave only Barr and Root on the final ballot. by the rules I take it that the second place gets booted and first place deprived of victory, lacking a majority. of course I don't have a freakin clue what happens after that.

    of course I don't even Know if a candidate voluntarily can get off the ballot. just brainstorming.

    but hey the momentum for a Barr/Gravel ticket could be building, as some others have sensed. (see my comment from a couple hours ago in the previous thread.)

  • ||

    Oh wow...

  • ||

    CSPAN's feed is shitting the bed right now. WTF.

  • ||

    Now it's just a matter of watching the Root delegates hemorrhage to Barr.

  • Kolohe||

    I agree with John David above. I don't want it drawn out as much as the first ballot; but a little drama would be nice - like going through all the states, then putting up the totals.

  • ||

    Fuck, the C-Span strem breaks right when they announce the new results. Who won?

  • ||

    Maybe it would be better to have Ruwart on top with Barr as the VP? I'd support that.

  • Eric Dondero||

    I just ran the numbers:

    Barr/Root still wins over the other three, even considering Gravel and Phillies endorse Ruwart.

    323

    295

  • ||

    So does Barr make a deal with Root, or does he just wait for his follower to come to him?

  • ||

    Barr and Ruwart are tied with 186, and Root has 146 I think. Gravel is 4th with 78 and Phillies is last with 31.

  • ||

    Like I said- Hell hath no furor like a Congressional staffer scorned.

  • Colin||

    What drama!

  • ||

    Poor North Dakota.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Let's keep in mind George Phillies and Tom Knapp are not the best of friends. Lots of bad blood there.

    Phillies could got for Root?

    Ruwart just got her most solid base of other supporters from Kubby (Knapp is Kubby's top guy).

  • ||

    Maybe it would be better to have Ruwart on top with Barr as the VP? I'd support that.

    if Mary Ruwart pulled her head out of her ass and stopped being ignorantly bullheaded, she could be the VP candidate.

  • ||

    I can barely read the screen, but it looks like Barr and Ruwart in the 180s (I can't read the third digit), Root 145, Gravel 70, Phillies 31.

  • Kolohe||

    B 186
    G 75
    R 186
    P 31
    R 146

    N 2

  • nj||

    Paul didn't blame "America" for 9/11. He made the point that actions have consquences. He was pointing the finger at the policy makers.

  • ||

    I've got 78 for Gravel.

  • ||

    "if Mary Ruwart pulled her head out of her ass and stopped being ignorantly bullheaded, she could be the VP candidate"

    Agree. I'd much prefer Ruwart for VP over Root or Gravel. And having a radical running mate would do more than anything else to stop everyone's fears of Barr's yanking the party to the right.

  • ||

    if Mary Ruwart pulled her head out of her ass and stopped being ignorantly bullheaded, she could be the VP candidate.

    No! That would confuse the voters! Oh noes!

  • ||

    Poor North Dakota.

    We feel your pain.

  • Guy Montag||

    How many of the 3 DC delegates are on the Reason staff?

  • ||

    I predict he'll be less magnanimous than Kubby, and of course endorse Ruwart.

  • Colin||

    Interesting that Barr lost a couple of votes.

  • ||

    Damn, good for him. He proved me wrong.

    /hopefully

  • ||

    Wow, good thing we didn't save time and knock Phillies off the ballot before the 3rd round.

  • Kolohe||

    Here's a catchphrase which has gone the way of the Macerena:

    "Mr Phillies, you are the weakest link. Good-bye."

  • ||

    Wow, good thing we didn't save time and knock Phillies off the ballot before the 3rd round.

    ha, no kidding. now he seems to be dancing around, trying not to bash Barr.

  • ||

    Holy hell. I'm loving Phillies more every second.

  • Kolohe||

    you know who else made an enemies list?

  • ||

    go George Phillies! I had him measured all wrong.

  • ||

    LaRouche? Is he worth mentioning?

  • ||

    Why the swipe at LaRouche? Oh well.

    I like him for running mate now. A lot.

  • Colin||

    Can someone explain the difference between neo-pagan and paleo-pagan?

  • ||

    I was enjoying Phillies, but what was that about LaRouche!?

  • ||

    I'm surprised Gravel has made it this far.

  • ||

    Going off of Kolohe's numbers,

    Barr -2
    Ruwart +40
    Gravel +5
    Root +8
    Phillies -5
    Kubby -32 (of course)

  • ||

    I think George Phillies should be the Press Secretary in the Barr Administration. He reminded me of a crazy Eugene Levy.

  • ||

    Can someone explain the difference between neo-pagan and paleo-pagan?

    Colin wins the thread.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Nice speech. Is it wrong that I like Phillies better as a loser than as a candidate?

  • Dog\'s New Clothes||

    The LaRouchies are gonna be pissed/

    And I guess the Lester Maddox and George Wallace voters won't be voting for Phillies

  • ||

    Barr/Phillies '08

    You think he was positioning himself for it?

  • ||

    Weigel is too narrowly focused and his views seem to color his article so that readers here are being a disservice.

    I am *not* a disservice!

    harrrummpphhh!

  • ||

    No kidding, Colin. Someone care to enlighten me on the significance of that?

  • Dixie Reb||

    Fuck Phillies, dissin' Lester Maddox

    Georgia will extract it's revenge with a Bob barr nomination.

  • Aleanto||

    Personally I think Phillies is actually a Bob Odenkirk character.

    Root and Barr need to cut some sort of deal before Ruwart takes all the momentum.

  • ||

    "Is it wrong that I like Phillies better as a loser than as a candidate?"

    I bet a lot of people are thinking that right now.

    What he did was very admirable. The people in that hall needed to hear that.

  • ||

    The two radicals who lost votes only had 37 votes to begin with, so Ruwart must have gotten votes from Barr/Root. That's strange.

  • Guy Montag||

    Wow, Phillies is anti-marriage just like me? I regret to have not supported him.

  • ||

    Can someone explain the difference between neo-pagan and paleo-pagan?

    You forgot about cosmopagans.

  • BakedPenguin||

    dbcooper - A lot of assholes like to claim that LaRouche was a Libertarian, although he only ran as a Democrat and under his own "American Labor Party".

  • ||

    Root and Barr need to cut some sort of deal before Ruwart takes all the momentum.

    Agreed.

    Anybody have any idea why this hasn't happened yet?

  • Kolohe||

    crymethink-
    I think my Gravel # is wrong, Weigel and Randian say 78, so it should be +8 for gravel.

  • Nigel Watt||

    Can we at least have Kubby for VP?

  • ||

    Well, it looks like this will be Mike Gravel's last stand. I can't say I have agreed with him on a lot of issues, but I have respected his integrity and blunt anger. He's more a populist (think William Jennings Bryan without the evangelical side) than a libertarian but he fought the good fight. I hope he does not pull an Alan Keyes and storm off somewhere else to continue his battle.

  • ||

    "Anybody have any idea why this hasn't happened yet?"

    Root is an egotistical asshole?

    /Rand dig
    //you know what I mean
    ///an irrational egotistical asshole

  • Colin||

    Yeah, it seems if Barr and Root made a deal, this thing would be just about over.

  • ||

    Corrected third ballot changes, from Weigel's numbers:

    Barr -2
    Ruwart +24
    Gravel +8
    Root +8
    Phillies -5
    Kubby -32 (of course)

  • ||

    lol, Bob Barr shooed the CSPAN camera

  • ||

    @Baked Penguin:

    Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't know that falsehood was still circulating.

  • ||

    Yeah, it seems if Barr and Root made a deal, this thing would be just about over.

    I'd rather Ruwart and Barr make a deal. That could keep the big tent idea of the LP and bring in a lot of people. A Barr/Root would make a lot of people unhappy.

  • ||

    Gravel has the party insiders totally baffled. They can't figure out where his supporters are going to go.

  • Zorgon||

    LMAO

    Barr: Would you like to ask that with the reporter here?

    He's been the most camera-shy so far.

    I really, really hope Gravel can pull this off. If not, he should go Green!!!!

  • ||

    I'd rather Ruwart and Barr make a deal. That could keep the big tent idea of the LP and bring in a lot of people. A Barr/Root would make a lot of people unhappy.

    I'd rather see this too, but Mary Ruwart is making it impossible. I'd rather have Barr than Ruwart (obviously), and if we have to run Barr/Root to do it, then we should do it. a Ruwart candidacy is the same old, same old...except she's going to get the LP smeared with the "child porn" thing even worse than we get already.

  • ||

    "Gravel has the party insiders totally baffled. They can't figure out where his supporters are going to go."

    Doesn't surprise me. He's personally made clear his distaste for both the right-libertarians and the radicals- which are the only two options. If I had to bet, I'd say they split but with most going to Ruwart. Rest to Barr- almost none to Root.

  • Hayekian Dreamer||

    Ayn_Randian - Gravel has a lot of people baffled.

  • Colin||

    I can't wait to hear Gravel concession speech.

  • BakedPenguin||

    I'd rather Ruwart and Barr make a deal.

    I agree with you, but it doesn't seem likely after hearing her "he wouldn't stop the War on Drugs" statement.

  • ||

    Quick, dumb question: Balloting just goes on until someone gets a majority of delegates? Is it as simple as that?

  • Kolohe||

    Well, I give Ruwart one thing, she's outlasted the women at Indy.

  • Franklin Harris||

    Well, it looks like this will be Mike Gravel's last stand.



    I'll miss him when he's gone. A Barr/Gravel ticket would be fun to see.

  • ||

    "I can't wait to hear Gravel concession speech"

    50/50 he plays the angry asshole.

  • ||

    That whole little chat with Ruwart convinced me how ignorant she really is. President Barr could not, nor should he not, have the power to stop an individual state from ending the war on Drugs. That's up to that state.

    Ruwart isn't running for President; she's running for wannabe Libertarian Dictator.

  • Aleanto||

    Barr and Ruwart aren't going to cut a deal. Too much bad blood. It'll be the Barr/Root supporters versus Ruwart picking up the rest of the field, with Gravel as the likely kingmaker.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Oh my God. Gravel and Root are huddling before the cameras. Can anyone hear what they're saying. Root looks super nervous.

  • ||

    Quick, dumb question: Balloting just goes on until someone gets a majority of delegates? Is it as simple as that?

    Except that the eliminate anyone pulling less than 5% each time.

  • Zorgon||

    Gravel is telling Root, "There's no question I'm the better candidate!!!!"

  • Guy Montag||

    Patrick is out of the race.

  • ||

    I agree about that. I think part of the historical problem has been that the Presidential nominee has presented the entire LP platform rather than specifically how that platform applies to the Presidency.


    Still, it wouldn't be bad for Barr to say he thinks states should legalize, too.

  • ||

    They eliminate the last place person plus anyone who got less than 5%.

  • ||

    Ruwart isn't running for President; she's running for wannabe Libertarian Dictator.

    She's running for fucking spokesmodel, with all the talk of Barr "tarnishing the brand".

  • ||

    Barr likes to hold his cards close to his chest.

  • ||

    Barr seems kind of lackluster right now.

  • ||

    HOLY FUCKING SHIT

  • ||

    Fuck tie again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ||

    so Barr and Ruwart split Phillies people?

    Barr - 202
    Gravel - 76
    Ruwart - 202
    Root - 149

  • ||

    Barr 202
    Ruwart 202
    Root 149
    Gravel 76
    NOTA 2

  • BakedPenguin||

    Randian - the DEA is a federal agency. Did she say anything that makes you think she wasn't referring to it?

  • Colin||

    It's funny that Gravel didn't get any Alaska votes.

  • Eric Dondero||

    351 to 278 for Barr/Root vs. Ruwart/Gravel.

    If everything holds the Libertarian Right should defeat the Libertarian Left.

    But my guess, some Gravel votes will go to Root. Which is good news for Bob Barr.

  • Franklin Harris||

    The suspense is killing me.

    I hope it lasts.

  • ||

    Change from last ballot

    Barr +16
    Ruwart +16
    Root +3
    Gravel -2
    Phillies -31
    NOTA +0

  • ||

    "Randian - the DEA is a federal agency. Did she say anything that makes you think she wasn't referring to it?"

    Barr has said he'd end the Federal drug laws, including on "hard" drugs.

  • ||

    Randian - the DEA is a federal agency. Did she say anything that makes you think she wasn't referring to it?

    I was referring to the fact that she said Barr won't "vote to end the War on Drugs". What does voting have to do with the Presidency?

    I'm really hoping that Gravel's people don't break too hard for Ruwart.

  • Colin||

    I would think that Ruwart would get the majority of Gravel's delegates. But I don't think that'll be enough.

    When Root's tossed, you got think that'll throw it to Barr.

  • ||

    As far as I am concerned, it's more important to understand what a President does if you're running for that office, rather than think of yourself (as Ruwart does) as the "face" of Libertarianism.

  • Franklin Harris||

    Am I the only one who thinks some of the Gravel votes will go to Barr because they do both have that "I've actually served in Congress" thing going for them?

    Of course, not being on the ground in Denver makes that pure speculation.

  • Eric Dondero||

    This has got to be better than NYC 1983. I don't care what anyone says. This is high drama. Tied!

    This reflects the libertarian movement split right down the middle between the Libertarian Right and the Libertarian Left.

    Whoever wins may determine the future of the libertarian movement for years to come.

  • ||

    When Root's tossed, you got think that'll throw it to Barr.

    That's a hell of a risk, though! Barr needs to do something to lock this shit down before Root's people go all "free radical" and latch on to the anti-Barr sentiment.

  • ||

    Ugh. As pleased as I am about Barr, the idea of Root for VP is making me sick to my stomach.

  • ||

    If that happens, I might just get a "Barr/None '08" bumper sticker.

    /ba-dum-ptsch

  • Eric Dondero||

    Franklin, I agree. Some of those Gravel votes will go to Barr. US Senator thing being a big deal.

  • lupus||

    Does anyone understand how disastrous a Ruwart nomination would be for the LP? We are already bordering on irrelevancy ... this would sink us forever. The media will latch on to all the kiddie porn commentary and make it look as if we are the NAMBLA party ... our brand will be permanently tarnished and we will never be able to recover. Looks as if the Truthers and perverts have taken over ...

  • ||

    Is Gravel going to speak?

  • Colin||

    How much control does the LP presidential nominee have over the VP nominee? Don't they vote on it?

  • ||

    I hate Mary Ruwart the more I hear her talk. She's a non-stop negative train and is annoying to hear.

  • Eric Dondero||

    lupus, disastrous for the LP, but not for the overall libertarian movement.

    You've still got the Republican Liberty Caucus and libertarians in the GOP. Expect an immediate move to the GOP if Ruwart prevails.

  • Colin||

    Ruwart again is going negative on Barr. I haven't heard Barr say anything bad about her, or anyone else.

  • ||

    Ruwart is telling some old people "I would never go on national TV and criticize a fellow Libertarian like Bob Barr did"

  • ||

    Whoever wins may determine the future of the libertarian movement for years to come.



    Nonsense. Until a whole block walks, it's still an even split. The "left" hasn't left the party, there is no other party for them to go to. One side may shut up for two years, but they won't split the party.

  • Guy Montag||

    Scott Dixon wins.

  • ||

    holy fuck Mary Ruwart is sounding like a Truther "I'd talk about 9-11, but we're on national television and I know how fucking crazy that sounds".

  • ||

    Yeah, "Libertarians for McCain".

    Heh.

    Next- "Vegans for KFC"

  • ||

    Dondero,

    Absolutely. We've still got Giuliani, Romney, and Fred Thompson.

  • Kolohe||

    Seriously, does anyone know the deal with North Dakota?

  • Eric Dondero||

    It's going to look bad for Barr on this ballot. But then he'll come back and win with Root's people on the final ballot putting him back over the top.

    If Barr is ahead this ballot somehow, it's all over, and he's the winner.

  • ||

    "Ruwart is telling some old people "I would never go on national TV and criticize a fellow Libertarian like Bob Barr did""

    On national TV.

  • ||

    are there any Ruwart supporters lurking around here? I'm sorry to tell you this, but your candidate is a negative, crazy bitch.

  • ||

    Barr 202
    Ruwart 202
    Root 149
    Gravel 76
    Red Wings 4
    NOTA 2
    Penguins 0

  • ||

    Did Gravel just endorse Root?

  • ||

    I haven't heard Barr say anything bad about her, or anyone else.

    A few weeks ago he went on one of the news shows and talked about Ruwart's statements on legalizing kiddie porn.

  • Franklin Harris||

    Gravel says he voted for Root.

  • Eric Dondero||

    It's over!!!

    Gravel just told the C-SPAN cameras he voted for "Wayne Allyn Root."

    That means Ruwart's screwed.

  • Colin||

    Gravel voted for Root!

  • ||

    Gravel- "this is the end".

    Well, at least he's not Alan Keyes.

  • rbm||

    Dondero: I ask because I really don't know much about libertarian politics: Why do you mention Republican Liberty Caucus and not Democratic Freedom Caucus?

  • Eric Dondero||

    Gravel needs to go to the podium and announce that now!!

  • Kolohe||

    Gravel reminds me of Huckabee in that I don't agree with any of his stances, but damn, he makes it hard not to like him personally.

  • Zorgon||

    Gravel voted for Root. Ugh.

  • ||

    "I'd talk about 9-11, but we're on national television and I know how fucking crazy that sounds".



    That just clinched the nomination for Barr!

  • Franklin Harris||

    Libertarians in the GOP only works if we show we can make them pay for ignoring us. That's why Barr being the LP candidate is important. If Barr costs or is seen as costing McCain the presidency, the GOP might, just might pay more attention to its moderate-libertarian wing.

  • ||

    Holy cow, there are like 20 cameras around Gravel right now.

  • Matt Welch||

    Did Gravel just endorse Root?

    No. He refused to tell his own voters who to vote for. His vote seemed to be personal.

  • ||

    Well, kiddie porn recording is not aggression.

  • B||

    Is it just me or does Gravel seem like a terrifically decent guy right now?

  • ||

    Gravel: "Libertarians aren't used to the idea they can win".

    how does a party outsider capture the zeitgeist of the LP so quickly?

  • nj||

    Wow, didn't see that coming

  • ||

    Gravel needs to go to the podium and announce that now!!

    He just said he's letting his delegates make up their own minds.

  • Colin||

    I thought his political career was over in 1981.

  • Colin||

    "Well, kiddie porn recording is not aggression."

    Unless you are the kiddie.

  • Hayekian Dreamer||

    Wait... did I just hear right? Did Gravel say he'd vote for Barr over Ruwart? I'm surprised, pleasantly surprised, but still.

  • ||

    Gravel is voting for Root, but won't endorse anyone. Gravel would vote Barr over Root in a 2way runoff though.

  • ||

    Gravel said he'd vote for Barr over Ruwart if it came down to that...

  • ||

    I may have misheard that last bit though.

  • Zorgon||

    719-442-1778

    Your cell phone just got on National Television. Lets all call him/her now!!!!

  • Eric Dondero||

    Gravel's comments may have just clinched it for Bob Barr.

    Looking very, very good for Libertarian Right coalition.

  • ||

    Possession of recording is never aggression.

  • ||

    Weigel, check for your camera!

    I'm waiting for the inevitable "Someone left their lights on in the parking lot" announcement...

  • Free2Smooze||

    The North Dakota thing has me a little perplexed. I worked on the Paul campaign and we were well organized there, that an active staff and volunteer base and did well in that contest.

    Kinda calls into question the whole notion that an LP candidate can ride Ron Paul's mojo.

  • Braden||

    Zorgon: The phone line is, predictably, busy!

  • BakedPenguin||

    Seriously, does anyone know the deal with North Dakota?

    I heard they voted to move up the convention date...

  • ||

    Possession of aggression is never recording.

  • Hayekian Dreamer||

    That's a disappointing note about Ed Thompson supporting Ruwart, I like Thompson a lot.

  • ||

    Barr has it wrapped up.

  • ||

    The end.

  • ||

    Ruwart - 229
    Barr - 223
    Root - 165

    I think that just about seals it for Barr.

  • B||

    Root's out!

  • ||

    Game over!

    Congratulations Bob Barr!

  • Eric Dondero||

    I agree, this looks very, very good for Bob Barr.

  • ||

    It's all but over. Ruwart's not getting enough delegates from Root to win this.

    Ruwart 229 +27
    Barr 223 +21
    Root 165 +16
    NOTA 6 +4
    Gravel 0 -76

  • ||

    So who does Barr choose as VP?

  • Eric Dondero||

    Libertarian Right

    combined Barr/Root 378

    Libertarian Left

    Mary Ruwart 229

    Game over.

  • ||

    yeah, the fact that Barr took so much of Gravel's people surprises me.

  • ||

    I hope they don't do this asinine spreadsheet thing after announcing Barr's won but before anything else can happen.

  • Aleanto||

    I haven't been happier to be wrong in quite some time. Barr will peel off tons of votes from McCain and possibly be the most successful LP candidate since 1980.

  • ||

    Dondero: I ask because I really don't know much about libertarian politics: Why do you mention Republican Liberty Caucus and not Democratic Freedom Caucus?

    He gives a pass to the theocratic war-mongers who endanger "liberty".

    A couple of % points on the top rate is "socialism" to him.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Do you all realize that a healthy portion of Gravel's vote went to Barr.

    Franklin Harris was right.

  • nj||

    I hope they do the right thing and pick Barr

  • ||

    oh here we go...let's see what Root does.

  • ||

    Just lost all respect for Mike Gravel. His only redeeming quality was his anti-imperialsm, and he supports warmongers Root and Barr over Ruwart??

    And AynRandian, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you're an asshole. Go back to jerking off all over your copy of Atlas Shrugged.

  • Colin||

    What happens if NOTA wins?

  • ||

    why the hell didn't Ruwart swing her votes to NOTA? that was the radicals only chance. unless Root's support is feigned...

  • ||

    Root is seriously screwing up his chances for VP.

    Does he have Barr's endorsement to do this?

  • ||

    Couldn't have given a clearer endorsement than that!

  • Franklin Harris||

    So who does Barr choose as VP?



    Root says it should be Root.

  • Raider Duck||

    I would be THRILLED with a Barr/Root ticket. We'd lose a few thousand of the Tom Knapp/L. Neil Smith crowd (maybe), but get a few MILLION Paul supporters. No-brainer.

  • Zorgon||

    Touchdown, Wayne Allyn Root!!!!

  • Kolohe||

    Well, that's that.

    Still, I don't think it's a coincidence that 'Duce' and 'douche' are awfully close. Root reminds me of that

  • ||

    And AynRandian, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you're an asshole. Go back to jerking off all over your copy of Atlas Shrugged.

    Take a walk, buddy. your team showed how crazy they all are.

    and how is Root a warmonger?

  • ||

    "Bang"...."It's not over"...."Barr/Root ticket"

    "Root Team Barr Team...BANG"

    Please dont do it

  • Colin||

    But what will Root do if Barr seeks a second term?

  • ||

    Go back to jerking off all over your copy of Atlas Shrugged.

    Didn't your heroine say Ayn Rand was one of her favorite philosophers last night?

    Also, shut the fuck up Root!

  • Hayekian Dreamer||

    Headline: Root concedes by assuming Barr will get defeated in November. (don't get me wrong, it's a good assumption, but still)

  • ||

    I'm hoping CSPAN camera grabs Barr and gets the facts on whether or not he wants Root.

  • Franklin Harris||

    Ouch. Root is just too loud.

  • ||

    But what will Root do if Barr seeks a second term?

    Count it...that's the thread winner! I don't usually write this, but I LOL'd

  • ||

    Does he have Barr's endorsement to do this?

    He doesn't need it. The Libertarians nominate their VP candidate, the presidential candidate doesn't select him.

  • Colin||

    The best thing about a Barr/Root ticket . . . no Truthers.

  • Kolohe||

    You know who loves Wayne Root more than anyone?

    Wayne Root.

  • ||

    PLEASE tell me Barr isn't going to endorse Root for VP.

  • Zorgon||

    Root supporter: We are gonna kick so much ASS!!!!

  • ||

    Oh, god he did.

  • ||

    OK, just for kicks: is there any chance some of the Barr votes -- who may have hoped for a Barr/Ruwart or Barr/Kubby "unity ticket" -- peel off to Ruwart (or NOTA) if they think he's going to choose Root as VP?

  • Kolohe||

    I'm hoping CSPAN camera grabs Barr and gets the facts on whether or not he wants Root

    The photo op now seems to confirm it.

  • ||

    Barr is clearly displeased.

  • ||

    looks like the rational wing of the party is taking over right now.

  • John Rhoads||

    Barr doesn't pick a running mate...the delegates vote for the vice presidential candidate as well.

  • ||

    It's over?

  • Franklin Harris||

    Barr has endorsed Root for his V.P.

  • Colin||

    Barr doesn't look too happy having Root so close to him.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Besides the day I married my wife, this is truly the very happiest moment of my entire life.

    The Dream Ticket for Libertarian Right Bob Barr/Wayne Root.

    This is a happy day for liberty!!!

  • Kolohe||

    "mainstream libertarians"

    OK Dondero, you can blow your wad now.

  • ||

    Ooh, Root just used Donderoo's buzzword.

  • Aleanto||

    I'm not that crazy about Root but having him as the running mate is definitely a preferable outcome to having Ruwart as the nominee.

  • ||

    I wonder how long this has been planned.

  • ||

    Root just said he and Barr are "mainstream libertarians". Any way I can change my vote?

  • ||

    Damn, Root is being presumptive talking about 2012.

  • Eric Dondero||

    They look great together. They look like a real team. My God this is great.

    This is great, great, great, great, great.

    Thank you Libertarian Party, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

  • ||

    Is relevance upon us?

  • Hayekian Dreamer||

    Dondero - "Together, we can defeat John McCain"

  • ||

    I prefer to jack off over We the Living, story over platform always goes down better.

    Root, this is why I don't watch sports. I thought Ruwart sounded great in the debate last night, despite verbal pauses. She looked great too. I'll just ignore the truthers that rally around her, damn assholes.

  • ||

    I want the camera on Ruwart RIGHT NOW!

  • Eric Dondero||

    If you're a Mainstream Libertarian go to:

    www.mainstreamlibertarian.com

    MAINSTREAM LIBERTARIANISM JUST BEAT THE RADICAL LEFTISTS.

    THIS IS THE GREATEST DAY IN THE HISTORY OF THE ENTIRE MODERN LIBERTARIAN MOVEMENT!!!!!!

  • Franklin Harris||

    Root just said he and Barr are "mainstream libertarians". Any way I can change my vote?



    For the win.

  • rbm||

    Root and Barr both just admitted they'd be Republican today had the party not "left them." Uhm.... isn't LP supposed to be more than a club for disaffected Republicans?

  • ||

    Dondero, now that we have Barr and Root, you must renounce any kind of support you have or would have had for John McCain.

  • ||

    Could Root be any more blatant in making it all about how he can get in 2012?

  • ||

    I wonder how long this has been planned.

    I wouldn't say "planned" so much as having been pretty much written on the wall.

    I am very anxious, however, and what's going to go down when Ruwart loses. I just hope the place doesn't explode: her supporters seem to be insane about Barr. Which, of course, shows that Ruwart's people are awfully uncaring about the party.

  • ||

    Baarrroot! Baarrroot!

    Oy.

    Root is a bit of a stooge, but he does have a gift for self-promotion. He'll certainly add some color to Barr's candidacy...

    I just hope he doesn't turn out to suffer from a case of foot-in-mouth disease...

  • Colin||

    That Root woman is scary.

  • Chris in NJ||

    Touchdown for libertarians who aren't crazy.

  • ||

    NOTA! NOTA! NOTA!

    Mary! Mary! Mary!

    Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!

  • Franklin Harris||

    I just hope the place doesn't explode: her supporters seem to be insane about Barr.



    Fixed. Heh.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Oh my gosh, Tom Knapp cannot be a happy camper right now. This is his worst nightmare come true. He hates Barr, even more than he hates Root.

    Greatest day in the life of Eric Dondero Rittberg (save his wedding day). Worst day in the life of Thomas L. Knapp.

    Watch for some lame walk-out attempt from the Radical Caucus Leftwingers.

  • ||

    "Besides the day I married my wife, this is truly the very happiest moment of my entire life."

    Look I'm for Barr but this is a bit over the top. I'm sorry your life has so little happiness that the battle to see who gets to win 1% of the vote in November ranks as the second happiest moment in your life.

  • Kolohe||

    Oh come on linger on Christine Smith.

  • ||

    Chris - I was thinking the same thing.

  • ||

    "Operation Chaos" has infected the Libertarian convention.


    In reverse.


    Rush will need to up his Oxy/Viagra dose.

  • ||

    Looks like Jingozian's given up on that VP bid.

  • ||

    "Touchdown for libertarians who aren't crazy."

    Amen to that.

  • Eric Dondero||

    I bet Tom Knapp has some sort of walk-out demonstration planned.

    I know my friend Tom, very well. He's a devious SOB. The Ruwart/Kubby people will not go away silent. Something's gonna happen.

  • Colin||

    If I were the cspan director, I'd cut directly on Christine when the results are announced. Wow.

  • Raider Duck||

    Well, if Thomas Knapp doesn't like the results here, he can always finish gathering those one million signatures for L. Neil Smith. Last time I looked, only 999,000 to go...

  • ||

    It would be funny if Ruwart went on camera and said, "You know, Robert Kennedy got assassinated in June..."

  • ||

    it's best not to count the chickens, Eric. I don't know how faithful Root's people are to him.

  • ||

    "it's best not to count the chickens, Eric. I don't know how faithful Root's people are to him."

    I'm not worried about Barr getting the nomination. I'm worried about whether or not enough Barr delegates will support Root for VP.

  • ||

    Well, not "worried". I'd think it fine and dandy if Root weren't on the ticker.

  • Kris Overstreet||

    Who else here foresees a sudden resurrection of the Boston Tea Party?

  • John Rhoads||

    It seems crazy to me to nominate Root as VP...there are clearly two large factions of the party and someone from the radical team is going to help prevent a lot of those people from not voting in November.

  • ||

    Well, not "worried". I'd think it fine and dandy if Root weren't on the ticker.

    I think I'll send Barr a roll of duct tape. He can slap a strip over Root's mouth when he gets to be a bit too much...

  • Eric Dondero||

    I know, I know AynRandian, I'm still very nervous. But it does look good.

    I heard a smattering of a report from NJ on C-SPAN 11 - 3. I'm assuming that's Barr/Root 11 Ruwart 3. That's a definite good sign.

  • Braden||

    It sounds crazy in passing, but it actually looks like the left-libertarians might actually have more in common with the CP candidate this time around than the LP ticket.

  • nj||

    Kubby should get the vp

  • ||

    "I think I'll send Barr a roll of duct tape. He can slap a strip over Root's mouth when he gets to be a bit too much..."

    I hope so. It's obvious that however much Barr might agree with Root on some things, he despises the man personally and isn't happy with him as his running mate.

  • Eric Dondero||

    This is it fellas. Are you hearts beating as fast as mine?

    I know we bash each other a lot. But I just want to say that it's been a pleasure sharing this great moment with you all here at the banner libertarian flagship Reason.com.

    Thanks guys.

  • ||

    Ruwart's endorsing Kubby for VP?

    Awesome!


    Please, please, please, please....

  • ||

    It seems crazy to me to nominate Root as VP...there are clearly two large factions of the party and someone from the radical team is going to help prevent a lot of those people from not voting in November.

    well, that all depends on if you WANT so-called "radicals" in the movement in the first place.

    The Truther thing spoiled me on those people. Seriously. I thought "big tent LP" would be great, but pandering to the crazies is too much.

  • D.A. Ridgely||

    So, just out of curiosity, why wasn't NOTA removed after it failed to receive > 5% of the vote? Do the LP convention rules actually address that or is it an ad hoc ruling from the "close enough" chair?

  • ||

    I agree with the actual positions of most of the "radicals". I'd even go so far as to say I'm a borderline anarcho-capitalist. But I can't stand the "radicals" who are obsessed with crazy conspiracy theories, and are so dogmatic they openly admit they don't care about getting more votes.

    It's not a church. It's a political party.

  • ||

    NOTA is always on the ballot.

  • ||

    Barr has got to hate the idea of Root as his VP. That dude is a self-absorbed loudmouth.

  • Colin||

    I'd prefer Kubby as VP, too.

  • Aleanto||

    Barr/Kubby would be a hilarious, not gonna lie, but Barr/Root would be better since Kubby is too much of a single-issue guy.

  • ||

    All I can say is that Barr/Root better deliver. If they fall by the wayside, pragmatic libertarianism is dead and all we'll be left with are the radicals and the crazies.

  • ||

    Barr/Kubby would assuage everyone's fears and might prevent a split in the party.

    I think it was bad of Barr to agree to give Root the VP. He would have won any way.

  • ||

    Kubby should get the vp

    The problem with Kubby is that he seems to have health issues that would prevent him from being an effective campaigner.

    That, and if the President dies, you don't want a VP that's about ready to jump into the grave after him...

  • Hayekian Dreamer||

    D. A. Ridgely - If you're going to have a NOTA, and subsequently remove the least popular candidate why would you take off NOTA? What happens if, for example, the only acceptable candidate for someone is Gravel, or Kubby, or whomever, and because NOTA is eliminated the same round as whichever candidate is the only one you can support you then are asked to vote?

  • TallDave||

    Wow, it's just like the old party conventions, with the added excitement of irrelevance.

  • ||

    "The problem with Kubby is that he seems to have health issues that would prevent him from being an effective campaigner."

    I don't think that would be a real hindrance. Barr can more than make up for it.

    "That, and if the President dies, you don't want a VP that's about ready to jump into the grave after him..."

    Well, that's if you think they might actually win. I'm more realistic than that.

  • Kolohe||

    Andy-
    As far as I can tell, voting 'none of the above' or writing someone in (which is not treated as the same thing) can be done in any round.

  • Franklin Harris||

    I agree with the actual positions of most of the "radicals". I'd even go so far as to say I'm a borderline anarcho-capitalist. But I can't stand the "radicals" who are obsessed with crazy conspiracy theories, and are so dogmatic they openly admit they don't care about getting more votes.

    It's not a church. It's a political party.



    I agree totally with that. In 2012, I'll run for the LP presidential nomination, and you can be my running mate.

  • ||

    TallDave,

    Your guy McCain and his henchmen on FOX don't seem to think it's irrelevant whether Barr gets teh nomination.

  • Libertarian delegate||

    Hey, has anybody seen my "Big Gulp"?

  • Kolohe||

    oh, that was D.A who asked, and it looks like in some coincidence Andy answered

  • John Rhoads||

    Seriously Ayn Randian? You call yourself a pragmatist and want to remove a third of the people from a very small party? It doesn't seem like a very pragmatic solution.

  • ||

    And besides, if Kubby were to enter a terminal decline Barr would just choose a replacement like Nixon did with Ford. If Kubby becomes President, one of the first things he'd do would be to choose a replacement VP.

    If you wanted to be that cold and calculating about it.

  • Kolohe||

    I am not sure a Kubby vote is a vote for the truthers, the same way a Ruwart one is.

  • ||

    Here we go...

  • ||

    "I agree totally with that. In 2012, I'll run for the LP presidential nomination, and you can be my running mate"

    Do the LP nominees have to actually meet the Constitutional requirements?

    'Cause I won't be able to be VP for another decade or so.

  • ||

    Yeah Root seems to enjoy the sound of his own bullshit even more than Gravel, but without that soothing baritone and with way more self-aggrandizement. He's a douche, but at least, it seems, not a crazy douche. When he was standing with Barr I actually thought what he proposed for their campaign approach might just find some success: Barr goes out and puts a serious face on the party, while Root hits the college campuses, fires up the grass roots. Don't know if young people would take Root seriously, but at least he's got enthusiasm without too much crazy (besides the egomania).

  • ||

    Heh, only 4 voted for NOTA.

  • ||

    324 to 276. Bob Barr for President! I'm ready to get started.

  • ||

    BARR WINS!

    first?

  • Raider Duck||

    Barr/Root would be perfect to get the message out. Barr can do the Larry King/Meet the Press circuit, and Root's hyper act (I like guy, but he acts like me after a Monster BFC) is ideal for Mancow/Bob & Tom crowd. I could see this ticket getting 5-10 million votes.

  • Kolohe||

    And even if Kubby is a single issue guy, it's a damn fine issue that everyone agrees with.

  • ||

    Please be classy, Mary.

  • Colin||

    Ruwart got a good portion of Root's vote, it seems.

  • ||

    Aww damn you randian.

  • ||

    Two, three count with nobody on
    He hit a high fly into the stand
    Rounding third he was headed for home
    It was a brown eyed handsome man
    That won the game; it was a brown eyed handsome man

    --Chuck Berry

  • ||

    Seriously Ayn Randian? You call yourself a pragmatist and want to remove a third of the people from a very small party? It doesn't seem like a very pragmatic solution.

    well, no. But like I said, the Truther thing really is a dealbreaker for me, and it concerns me a lot.

  • ||

    Ruwart has to be classy- she's endorsing Kubby for VP.

    I bet that was part of their deal.

  • ||

    Ruwart, you didn't win an Oscar. Speak your peace like every other loser and get off the stage.

  • Colin||

    She's got an art director?

  • Franklin Harris||

    mtc, if Root sticks to being a college cheerleader, he might actually do some good as an LP VP nominee. But it's not going to be pleasant if he actually makes it into some vice presidential debates. I suggest someone in Barr's inner circle keep a tranq gun aimed at Root at all times.

  • Taktix®||

    Once again.

    Money Game.

    Tripping June.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAaOfpLifP0

  • Dan||

    While glad to see the LP get more pragmatic by nominating Barr for prez, it would not be wise to go for Root for veep. Barr's 54-46 percent victory over Mary (unknown-to-non-libertarians) Ruwart, on the 6th ballot, is hardly a resounding win. Kubby or Phillies would be a far better choice for the veep slot, and would go a long way in keeping the substantial percentage of radicals motivated to support the ticket.

  • Colin||

    Not one word about Barr.

  • Franklin Harris||

    Ruwart = sore loser. No talk of unity. Utterly classless and utterly expected.

  • ||

    Failing to say "Let's support our Presidential Nominee!" was a classless move on her part.

  • ||

    She's got an art director?

    Those cheesy heart in circle signs don't design themselves.

  • ||

    I suggest someone in Barr's inner circle keep a tranq gun aimed at Root at all times.

    Either that, or just keep him tied up in closet somewhere until the election is over....

  • ||

    Ruwart, who when nominated this morning declared herself the candidate of "party unity," can't endorse or even say the word "Barr" in her concession. Mary hasn't changed since I knew her 25 years ago in Kalamazoo.

  • Raider Duck||

    Unfortunately, the only VP debates Root's getting into will be the ones where he debates McKinney's, Nader's & Baldwin's running mates. I really like the Barr/Root ticket (if Root gets the VP nod), but no way they're hitting the 15% necessary to get into the major debates.

  • ||

    so was there a walkout of some kind? The room seems to be a lot emptier.

  • ||

    Party unity = unity behind ME

    Sort of like with McCain.

  • ||

    Barr is ~ 100x better at speaking than Ruwart.

  • ||

    Barr doesn't sound that mad, but he's got the angriest fucking look on his face.

  • ||

    The Truther thing spoiled me on those people. Seriously. I thought "big tent LP" would be great, but pandering to the crazies is too much.

    I encourage all of the truthers to go to the Republican and Democratic conventions, dress up like the natives, and talk about the 9/11 conspiracy. Talk long, talk loud, and especially talk about WTC-7. Maybe those folks will listen to your well researched critiques of the official (COVER-UP) version of events. Pound that particle beam weapon theory home in particular. Let's face it, the Libertarian party is not worthy of your time and efforts.

    Get in front of the cameras, tell the reporters that you are Democrats (or GOPers as applicable), and you just want THE TRUTH!

    P.S. Don't come back.

  • ||

    P.P.S. Take Donderoooooo with you.

  • ||

    hmmm...Barr's not going to say anything about Root? Ruwart didn't say anything about Kubby?

    I confess; I'm confused.

  • Colin||

    Hopefully, J sub D speaks for all of us.

  • Franklin Harris||

    Unfortunately, the only VP debates Root's getting into will be the ones where he debates McKinney's, Nader's & Baldwin's running mates.



    Those are the ones I was talking about. They're going to be annoying enough without Root on hyperdrive.

  • Rodrique Egenberger||

    Being 100x better than Ruwart hardly makes him a captivating speaker.

    Also, he's a tool.

  • ||

    I second the point about why hasn't he said anything about Root, and yeah it does look like there was a walk-out...

    well ok he mentioned Root in passing...

  • ||

    Mary hasn't changed since I knew her 25 years ago in Kalamazoo

    Kalamazoo = Battle Creek without the sophistication and culture. ;-)

  • Eric Dondero||

    Maybe there was some sort of walk-out. The audience seems half the size, and rather subdued.

  • ||

    I don't understand the Barr haters. He's taking the time to talk about winning, libertarian unity and how it's "not all about him". He complimented Ruwart; an effort she couldn't even make the time to duplicate.

  • Colin||

    He's talked about Ruwart more than Root.

  • ||

    That's not the man in black...

  • Kris Overstreet||

    I think just a lot of people want to take a break, maybe get a snack, during a speech they really don't give a damn about.

    I wonder if C-SPAN will carry the VP nomination fight?

  • Colin||

    I didn't hear an endorsement of Root.

  • ||

    They're actually covering this on CNN...MSNBC and FOX are ignoring it thus far.

  • ||

    So did he just throw Root under the bus?

    WEIGEL?!?!

  • Mr. Chartreuse||

    I don't understand the Barr haters

    I'm guessing their hate comes from: "He's not 100% pure libertarian!!!!"

  • Rodrique||

    I'm a self-confessed Barr hater because he's been so wrong on the (primarily cultural freedom) issues, historically. Maybe he's truly had a change of heart, but at the moment he seems like your standard politician that will say what he needs to in order to secure a vote.

    Maybe I can be convinced otherwise, but I don't see it happening at the moment.

  • Colin||

    Well, that was an enjoyable waste of Sunday afternoon.

  • Nigel Watt||

    For the love of everything that is holy...Kubby for VP.

    Weigel, tell us something.

  • ||

    An aside -

    IMRO, C-SPAN has done much to elevate political discourse in this country. Or at least slow the freefall.

  • ||

    Maybe he's truly had a change of heart, but at the moment he seems like your standard politician that will say what he needs to in order to secure a vote.

    oh yes, because it's such a politically winning position to be a libertarian, let alone a Libertarian.

    what color is the sky on your world, man?

  • Some dude not voting for Barr||

    The LP 1971-2008

    Murray Rothbard is rolling in his grave.

  • ||

    David!

  • ||

    ok, ladies and gentlemen, you may not be happy with the fact that Barr is the nominee, but you have to get behind our nominee.

    and I hear Weigel again on CNN.

  • ||

    I'd have a hard time supporting Barr/Root. If that were the choice I'd just vote Constitution Party in protest or skip out on voting altogether. So I don't begrudge Mary not making an endorsement yet. If they don't give Kubby the VP slot, and instead load the ticket with two Republicans, then there really isn't a place in the Libertarian Party for true libertarians anymore and she'd be just as justified in snubbing the ticket as Paul will be in snubbing McCain.

  • ||

    WEIGEL WHY ARE YOU ON THE PHONE, I THOUGHT YOU WERE THERE?

  • Rodrique||

    Randian,

    Alright, point taken.

    The point of my argument is that he still strikes me as a phony. Perhaps I missed it, but when and why did he suddenly realize he was wrong about telling people how they should live their lives?

  • Raider Duck||

    "Some dude": Well, you could always help with the L. Neil Smith for Prez campaign. If you sign the petition, there will only be 989,999 to go.

  • ||

    I see that we've started the counterproductive sniping already, despite the fact that Barr's stated positions are very libertarian.

  • Franklin Harris||

    The LP 1971-2008

    Murray Rothbard is rolling in his grave.



    Murray gave up on the LP in 1990.

  • ||

    Why was Mike Gravel more accepted more than Barr? Is it because only Barr had a real chance?

  • Rodrique||

    I choose to base my votes on what people have done rather than on what they say they will do.

  • Kolohe||

    c-span dude is in dc, weigel in denver - thus phone.

  • Aleanto||

    Barr has been a libertarian for several years now, he endorsed Badnarik in 2004 and he was doing lobbying work for the MPP and ACLU long before he even formed his exploratory committee. His conversion is a lot more authentic than someone like Gravel (or Romney, for that matter). He may have been a rock-ribbed Republican in the past, but so have a lot of libertarians. Don't hold that against him. If anything, it means his candidacy will hurt the Republicans more.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Who is unahappy about Barr being the Nominee?

    This is the greatest moment in the 36 year history of the Libertarian Party.

    Nothing could be better.

    Time to pick up a clipboard and get petitioning for ballot access.

  • Deane||

    Well done Barr. Finally a no-nose-ringer for LP.

  • ||

    I choose to base my votes on what people have done rather than on what they say they will do.

    Yeah, but isn't it funny that, despite the fact that Barr's Lib creds have been pointed out to you, you choose to pick and choose what Barr has done?

    I'm with Dondero. I'm actually going to work on this campaign...first time in a while I'm not cynically apathetic.

  • Thane Eichenauer||

    Hey all ya Barr haters out there,

    I began my Sunday, going to work, reading the various web/blog articles so far and came back with a more favorable view of Mr. Barr than I did before.

    i hardly came across ANY article where Bob Barr said anything that any Libertarian (such as myself) could object to.

    Being that NOT starting a war on Iran is goal #1 (IMHO) and that Bob Barr actually graduated from high school in Tehran, Iran for goodness sakes I can't think of a person (short of Mike Gravel) who has more actual elected political experience and could do a better job of keeping the one eyed monster (the TeeVee) on the topic of not-War with Iran.

    There are people who may choose to walk away from the Libertarian Party table now that Bob Barr has won the nomination but unless they are counseling the under-43 y/o crowd (Ernest Hancock seems to do well on that topic and I try to do my bit) how not to join the US Army then they are in for a rude awakening should Bush-Cheney (and McCain is clued in as well-of course) order "Bombs away-bomb/bombs-away on Iran".

    Hating Barr for his supposed past anti-gay positions and then having Iranian civilians die as a result would be a sad-sad thing.

  • Franklin Harris||

    I choose to base my votes on what people have done rather than on what they say they will do.



    Given that Barr is only the second LP presidential candidate with an actual voting record, I'd say you probably don't.

  • ||

    See I think the question of Barr's sincerity is fairly moot--It's not like if you were a conservative six months ago looking at Romney- because Romney actually had a chance to win. Barr, however, doesn't have a chance, but I think he can still spread the message very effectively (even if he doesn't REALLY believe it), possibly cost McCain the election, which I think overall would be a marginally positive outcome for the cause of liberty.

  • ||

    I don't get the hate for Barr on the grounds of what he used to believe. I was once hardcore conservative republican, was extremely active in the College Republicans my first couple of years, was dedicated to the cause, worked on the Phil Gramm campaign and then later the Dole campaign in '96.

    But I had a change of heart. A true one. I examined everything, and realized that I was wrong. And I'm "dedicated to the cause" now, as it were. Can't understand why people don't believe someone can have a true change of heart and change their beliefs. I'd actually rather see someone who had a change of heart versus someone who has had the belief forever and never questioned it.

  • ||

    Being that NOT starting a war on Iran is goal #1 (IMHO) and that Bob Barr actually graduated from high school in Tehran, Iran for goodness sakes I can't think of a person (short of Mike Gravel) who has more actual elected political experience and could do a better job of keeping the one eyed monster (the TeeVee) on the topic of not-War with Iran.

    Holy crap, Barr's one of them moslems. Like Obama!

  • ||

    ahh thank god W's little segment is over....

  • ||

    Bush with the bikers, not Weigels...

  • ||

    My problem with Barr is that he has never really renounced the Drug War. Cozying up the Pot Folks doesn't count since the bulk of them are socialists who just happen to like weed and want it legalized. The Libertarian objection to drug prohibition is more fundamental than that, and nothing Barr has ever said on the subject suggests to me that he "gets it".

  • Mr. Chartreuse||

    I don't get the hate for Barr on the grounds of what he used to believe. I was once hardcore conservative republican [....]

    I was the same way Andrew. I even voted for....Alan Keyes in 1996. Over the course of the next twelve years I realized that being pro-drug war and anti-gay marriage, for example, were the exact opposite positions to take if you wanted small government.

  • Eric Dondero||

    I'm aleady petitioning for the LP on the ground in a mid-western state. (Sorry, I took the afternoon off to watch the proceedings.)

    The LP needs help in 20 states, like Alabama, Nebraska, Rhode Island, New York, ect... There's a state nearby you. Sign up as a volunteer or paid petitioner.

    Barr/Root needs your help now!

    Contact Sean or Robert at National LP HQ.

  • ||

    The Libertarian objection to drug prohibition is more fundamental than that, and nothing Barr has ever said on the subject suggests to me that he "gets it".

    well, I don't think Ron Paul "gets" the immigration argument, but I'd vote for him, were he on the LP ticket.

    I don't expect my candidates to "get" things 100%. That's just a formula for a whole mess of splits.

  • ||

    Only in the LP:

    Root: "I endorse Barr. And after he gets his ass handed to him in '08, I can be nominated in 2012 and get my ass handed to me, too!"

    I may have paraphrased that a wee bit.

  • ||

    who the hell are these VP candidates?

  • ||

    If this is the VP crop, I guess Root wins easily.

  • ||

    Damn you Cspan!

  • ||

    This is great, great, great, great, great.
    Thank you Libertarian Party, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!



    Now go get a towel and wipe that off your monitor. Don't let it drip down into your keyboard.

  • ||

    Thane, if you're basing your vote on preventing a war with Iran, then you should vote for Obama.

    I hate to break it to you, but Barr is not going to win.

    In the best case, he'll draw enough votes in some state (perhaps Georgia) from McCain to help Obama win.

  • Colin||

    I'm not madly in love with Barr -- I written many critical comments about him in the past month.

    But he was by far the best candidate. What really won me over was when he refused to sign that Truther pledge, even after most (if not all) of the other candidates did.

    He's got my vote. And I won't even hold my nose while doing it.

  • ||

    Contact Sean or Robert at National LP HQ.



    Sorry, I'm in the GOP now. The antics of this weekend's convention affirms my choice. I'll be canvassing for local Ron Paul supporting GOP candidates (of which I am one), and getting the local RLC

  • Eric Dondero||

    You all, let's close out this thread. We just witnessed the greatest moment in the 36 year history of the Libertarian Party. The Mainstream Libertarians won.

    Now it's time to get off the computers, and pick up a clipboard, and get out there to petition for LP ballot access.

    Barr/Root 2008! Let's get petitioning!!

  • ||

    ...back in action.

  • Rodrique||

    "Given that Barr is only the second LP presidential candidate with an actual voting record, I'd say you probably don't."

    Ha! Alright, fair point there. Voting records aren't the only thing I consider (activism, writings, etc.), but a decent point nonetheless.

    I think the argument that Barr, even if not a genuine believer, would be a good mouthpiece for libertarianism (or at least the Libertarian party) is one that I'll consider.

    "Yeah, but isn't it funny that, despite the fact that Barr's Lib creds have been pointed out to you, you choose to pick and choose what Barr has done?"

    No, not really funny. His creds aren't that great, and whatever some of you may say, they matter. This isn't a matter of picking and choosing. As I've said before, he's done some things right. He's done enough things wrong. That he's changed his positions in recent years might allow me to vote for him, but not enough for me to be not be curious of the change and for me to question his judgment.

    I might end up voting for him, but only begrudgingly.

  • ||

    I have no objections whatsoever to converts. Without converts the Libertarian Party the chance that the LP could ever win an election goes from highly dubious to downright impossible. My objections to Barr and not on what he believed in 2000, but what he believes now. He's made very little effort to convince people that on core, fundamental issues he really believes in libertarian principles. But like I said before, if they nominate Kubby for VP I'll hold my nose and vote for Barr. If the double down on the pseudo-libertarians and go Barr/Root, then they won't even get a pseudo-vote from me.

  • ||

    I guess the question is, how does Root come across when he's not preaching to the choir?

    Jews for the Preservation of Fire Arms! YEAH!!!

    Ok this stuff about his mom and dad, touching I suppose, but I just don't care.

  • ||

    Seriously, Root makes "My dad was a mill worker' sound positively substantive.

  • ||

    If the double down on the pseudo-libertarians and go Barr/Root, then they won't even get a pseudo-vote from me.

  • ||

    woah.

    Anywho...FDS, if you want to leave the LP over this, you probably weren't that committed in the first place.

  • ||

    I'm so up and down about Barr.

    The upside:

    1. He not a nut job.
    2. He has said many of the correct things and I think he's on the road to libertarianism, though not there yet.
    3. He will take more votes from McCain than Obama, which is indeed marginally better for liberty
    4. He will get the LP and libertarian ideas some much needed publicity.

    Downside:

    1. I'm not totally convinced of his conversion. And some of his past "sins" are hard to forgive.
    2. In the long-run, he could turn the LP into the GOP Jr.
    3. He's a politician.

    If he can credibly articulate a campaign based on the following three things, I would be satisfied:

    1. A clear commitment to a non-corporatist free market economic policy in which deregulation and economic growth is a vehicle to improve everyone's lives, esp. the worst off.

    2. A foreign policy summarized as "trade not invade" and continue his apparent commitment to getting us out of Iraq and not into Iran.

    3. Show that he is at least tolerant of the "experiments in living" that define the social and cultural freedom element of libertarianism. The federalist compromise is the bare minimum here, and if he can do that along with articulating why states should not just have the right to, for example, approve SSM or legalize drugs, but indicate that it's a good thing to do in some sense, that would be good.

    Such a platform, articulated well, might well do much good for the LP and libertarian ideas more generally.

    I remain, however, skeptical that he can pull it off.

  • Steven Horwitz||

    Add to my upside:

    1a: he didn't go near the Truthers.

  • Some dude not voting for Barr||

    Let's face it, the LP doesn't have a shot at winning the White House. So why compromise the message of the party and nominate someone like Barr? The LP should stand for freedom all the time and every time, not just when it's convenient.

  • ||

    I didn't realize what a collectivist mindset Christine Smith had.

    "we need a woman! because of all those white guys we had before!"

    whatever!

  • btr||

    "Let's face it, the LP doesn't have a shot at winning the White House. So why compromise the message of the party and nominate someone like Barr? The LP should stand for freedom all the time and every time, not just when it's convenient."

    So true! Amen to that

  • ||

    So why compromise the message of the party and nominate someone like Barr?

    I'm curious, then: what candidate would NOT have been a compromise? Face it, every candidate has something that libertarians can fight over...we're notoriously good at finding fault with libertarian positions.

  • Thane Eichenauer||

    Hello Reasonable,

    I am not going to bet the farm on Bob Barr being elected President of the United States -HOWEVER- I would not spend minute one asking anybody to vote for Barack Obama as any (ANY) sort of anti-war candidate.

    Ponder this quote I got from Newsmax.com:

    ==============================================

    "Who the hell are we going to nuke?" Gravel shouted. "Tell me, Barack. Barack, who do you want to nuke?"

    Obama smiled to cool the heated exchange. "I'm not planning to nuke anybody right now, Mike, I promise," he said to laughter from the crowd.

    "Good," Gravel said happily. "We're safe then, for a while."

    ===============================================

    Think about that next time you think Obama is a peace candidate (or even the least pro-war Demopublican).

    If I lived in Iran or Pakistan I wouldn't feel safe about a Obama presidency.

    http://www.bobbarr2008.com/

  • nj||

    The Gop jr point is the only thing that worries me. It would be nice to have a credible moderate left-libertarian candiate.

  • ||

    Christ. We have a party that has been around for a long time and isn't like to fade anytime soon, yet people are pissed off that they nominated a guys who is actually going to get votes and put them on the political map. I'm going to guess that you guys, if you were at the convention, would have voted NOTA.

  • ||

    amen to that, John-David.

    there's a candidate now who might, MIGHT, get a million or more people to actually pull the lever for the word "Libertarian", and you guys are angry about this?

  • Rodrique||

    "Anywho...FDS, if you want to leave the LP over this, you probably weren't that committed in the first place."

    Yeah, what a dick. He cares more about being a libertarian than being a Libertarian. He sure has his priorities messed up.
    Yeah, that was sarcasm.

  • ||

    To follow up on what Steve said, I'll post this example. A lot of times, in front of certain audiences, Ron Paul will couch his drug war arguments in Federalist terms. But he does this in part to mask the fact he doesn't believe ANY government entity has the right to tell you what you can or can't put in to your own body. In other words, he's stressing the Federalist line to hide how libertarian he really is. With Barr, it's the opposite. He hides behind Federalism to avoid admitting to us that all he really wants to do is move the Drug War down to the State and Local level. Will I ever hear Bob Barr mentioning off hand how the real problem with marriage is that the State shouldn't be involved in regulating it all, as Ron Paul has? Somehow I doubt it.

  • Imago||

    Words cannot express how much I loathe the girl thats on right now, and people like her, for what they're doing to Ayn Rand. Such a disgrace.

    You're either an Objectivist, or you're a Libertarian -- being both is an oxymoron.

  • btr||

    "We have a party that has been around for a long time and isn't like to fade anytime soon"

    The only way in which it would 'fade' is if it lost its principles. You've made our point!

    I'll guarantee any votes Barr pulls from 'disenfranchised Republicans' will be from those who have absolutely no interest in joining and growing the party and will return to voting Republican thereafter. I mean, look at the comments above - the Dondero gang was going to push McCain's candidacy if Barr didn't win!

    I'm not so sure it's the GOP Jr., it might better be referred to as the GOP2

    Nonetheless, I'm interested to see what occurs now. Will Barr attract the massive media attention everybody saws he will? Ron Paul ran in 1988 as an ex-Congressman, will this time be any different? Will he manage to get into any debates? I'm actually hoping he does .. we'll see.

  • ||

    I'm going to guess that you guys, if you were at the convention, would have voted NOTA.

    Nope, would have voted for Ruwart or Kubby, REAL libertarians. Not a neocon phony like Barr.

    It really shocks me how quickly some are you willing to sell out our principles for a million votes (or a hundred million for that matter). What is this "success" worth if we get the same statist crap coming out of Washington?

    Truly sad when a right-wing congressman from Texas is more libertarian than the LP candidate. Maybe the LP is no longer the place for me.

  • nj||

    "He hides behind Federalism to avoid admitting to us that all he really wants to do is move the Drug War down to the State and Local level."

    Sure he is not believer, but this is a massive improvement from the status quo.

  • Raider Duck||

    Four years ago, after Badnarik won the nomination, the "purist" wing was going around saying, "FINALLY! We have a pure, ideological Libertarian who can take the reigns!" What did that get us?

    About 100,000 less votes than Harry Browne had received, and four more years of utter irrelevancy.

    Barr could very well get 5 million or more votes. If he could cost McCain the election, maybe the Republican party would once again start paying attention to the idea of smaller government, rather than just paying lip service to the concept.

  • ||

    It really shocks me how quickly some are you willing to sell out our principles for a million votes (or a hundred million for that matter).

    I know you harbor some secret fantasy that maintaining libertarian "purity" (whatever that means) will make libertarianism more popular, but it won't.

    I am shocked that you aren't willing to realistically assess the political climate and understand that having a "mainstream" libertarian candidate is not necessarily "selling out Libertarian principles" more than it's "tapping into a vast pool of possible libertarian support that our previous craziness and drive towards 'purity' hasn't been able to do".

  • Reasonable||

    Thune, you saw that Gravel while he did many admirable things isn't exactly the most reasonable person.

    Obama is not going to nuke Iraq or probably any other place.

    He is far from perfect, but he certainly is better than McCain. And the reality is one of them will be president.

  • Fluffy||

    If a candidate got the LP nomination and said, "I'm running on the entire LP platform, with the exception of the fact that I'm pro-life," would you purists vote for him? If the answer is no, you are douchebags. And I say this as someone who is probably one of the most pro-choice people here.

    If a candidate got the LP nomination and said, "I'm running on the entire LP platform, with the exception that I only want to legalize marijuana, and not hard drugs right now," would you purists vote for him? If the answer is no, you are also douchebags. And I say that as someone who is pro-crack-in-vending-machines.

    The way to make the LP relevant is to teach one of the parties that attacking civil liberties, growing government at Great Society speeds or greater, launching wars of conquest, and setting up systems of extrajudicial detention, trial and punishment will result in an LP spoiler gutting your party's Presidential candidate.

    The LP couldn't win this year no matter who they nominated. But it CAN jam a red hot poker in the eye of the GOP to punish it for its outrageous statism and incipient fascism. And you may not believe this, but doing THAT helps "teach about liberty" and "grow the movement", too, just as much as having a purist candidate out there doing the Menshevik thing does.

  • DW||

    I will happily donate to Barr's campaign and vote for him come November. I would probably have voted for Kubby and possibly even Root, but after what I saw today and last night on Cspan from Ruwart there is no way I'd vote for her.

  • EricM79||

    Libertarian "principles"? They're a party of bland pragmatism, consisting of hippies, truthers, and rejects from other parties -- even welcoming socialists such as Gravel. They're also a haven for "objectivists" who aren't able to adhere to Objectivist principles, but still use the label for themselves, defiling the memory of Rand. I'm in favor of both personal and economic liberty, but will never consciously support the LP.

  • ||

    hey're also a haven for "objectivists" who aren't able to adhere to Objectivist principles, but still use the label for themselves, defiling the memory of Rand.

    Defiling her memory? She's a philosopher (one I greatly admire, you may be able to tell), but she's not a god. And you are an idiot.

  • ||

    "he's a philosopher (one I greatly admire, you may be able to tell), but she's not a god."

    Tell that to Pope Peikoff I.

  • ||

    But it CAN jam a red hot poker in the eye of the GOP to punish it for its outrageous statism and incipient fascism.

    Exactly.

    I will vote for Obama but the GOP still has the best chance to be the 'small government' party again.

    (but first stop the war!)

    But it must die first. And take the Bush Fascists with it....

  • ||

    to add to Fluffy's points about the "purists", let me ask the purists this:

    1. If I were running on a school voucher platform, would you vote for me? Or would you scream at me that "government doesn't belong in schools!"

    2. Your hero Ron Paul ran on a closed-borders platform. How does that square with libertarianism?

  • Chris in NJ||

    Will any of the CSPAN's be picking up coverage of the VP nominating process? Otherwise, can it be viewed online anywhere?

  • Thane Eichenauer||

    Reasonable,

    "I'm not planning to nuke anybody right now..."

    Barack Obama is not planning to nuke anybody right now. I say that no pro-peace American who isn't wearing rose colored Democrat glasses would support Barack Obama.

    How has Senator Obama reduced US Armed Forces adventurism _ever_?

    Maybe I have managed to overlook a one-man five-month filibuster on continued funding of the Iraq/Afghanistan occupation by Senator Obama (a la Senator Gravel).

    Or maybe it is time to advocate for Libertarian Party (and other pro-peace) candidates harder than ever.

  • B||

    "Root will endorse Barr"

    Damn, Barr is sure to be President now.

  • M||

    There's a webcast at bobbarr2008.com.

  • Guy Montag||

    dbcooper,

    Isn't your true identity supposed to be revealed by your son on the Coast to Coast this week?

    That is, if you are really D B Cooper . . .

  • ||

    Presidential candidate != Grand Ruler of the party

    I don't see why we can't have our radical crazyfest AND our electable moderate candidates.

  • ||

    Ayn,

    Nobody is asking for 100% purity. With Paul for example, sure he's pro-life and he's for borders, but both of those issues can be squared within the context of mainstream libertarian thought. Nobody doubts Paul is a libertarian. Hell, he's spent his entire life associating with Rothbardians, which makes him more radical in his libertarianism than anybody on the staff of Reason. The fact that Ron Paul seems personally uncomfortable with the concept of homosexuality doesn't bother me at all because I know his ideological foundation is sound. Because he doesn't have the track record or history Paul does to fall back on, I would expect Barr to be even more libertarian in his rhetoric than Paul, just to prove to us his conversion was real. But that wasn't the case at all. Paul running as a Republican sounded ten times more libertarian than Barr running as a Libertarian did. What good is all this so called "media attention" Barr is going to bring in if he isn't going to effectively articulate core Libertarian beliefs?

  • Guy Montag||

    A_R,

    RP did NOT run on a "closed borders" platform, he ran on a secure borders platform, with some surrender monkey sprinkles.

  • nj||

    Pure or not, the fact that Barr could potentially deny Mccain the white house is good enough for me.

  • ||

    Looks like Kubby was put on as a VP choice. Don't know the full results yet.

  • Mr. Chartreuse||

    I think Root is the VP choice.

  • ||

    There's only one Dale Cooper, and he's stuck in the Black Lodge.

  • VM||

    "both of those issues can be squared within the context of mainstream libertarian thought."

    no, they can't.

    one has medical ignorance. the other, economic.

    fucktards, head to main parties.

  • ||

    Root got VP.

  • ||

    I thought Kuby was the best. Gravel seemed incoherent, really embarrasing...

    Barr has a ton of faults. But as an outsider it did appear to me that he took the time to learn about the LP and what it believes in. The guy was once a successful politician.

    fluffy and A-R are right, demanding purity is really silly.

    However, I think the LP's function is not electoral sucess but as a point of origin and popularizier of ideas.

  • ||

    fluffy and A-R are right, demanding purity is really silly.

    Even the Founders compromised. I see nothing wrong with having a variety of viewpoints within the party.