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'The Ethos of Organic Food': Worrying About Things That Don't Matter?
This New York Times article about organic baby formula, which ran on the front page of the national edition, is puzzling on several levels. Apparently some mothers (at least two!) who buy the organic version of Similac have been dismayed to learn that it contains sucrose instead of the lactose used by competitors. According to the Times, "All infant formulas contain added sugars, which babies need to digest the proteins in cow's milk or soy." But the supply of organic lactose has been tight lately, so Similac decided to use less-expensive (and sweeter) organic cane sugar instead.
Does that make the formula less healthy? The Times hems and haws on that question, citing clashing opinions regarding the effect that different sugars might have on tooth decay and obesity. The bottom line is there's no clear evidence sucrose is any worse for babies than lactose. "No health problems in babies have been associated with Similac Organic," the Times reports. Furthermore, "Doctors say that parents need not worry about the precise composition of formula, because the product over all has been proved safe and effective. "
Still, says one pediatrician, "That organic formula would be sweeter might not be a health risk, but it certainly isn't what the parents [who buy organic products] have in mind." A taste researcher concurs: "Making sweeter formula so that babies like it more seems to me contrary to the ethos of organic food."
What exactly does that mean? As far as the U.S. Department of Agriculture is concerned, the Times notes, "a product can be labeled organic when 95 percent of its ingredients are grown without the use of certain pesticides and herbicides." So a product can meet this standard, or even hit the 100 percent mark, but still not be organic in spirit? And if the ethos is so demanding, can any sort of baby formula truly be organic, since breast milk is both more natural and healthier?
Ron Bailey recently noted several myths about organic food, including the notion that it's especially healthy.
Fluffy|5.21.08 @ 2:55PM|#
If it's sweeter, it contradicts the ethos of that subset of the organic movement which is about suffering, and not about health or quality.
TGGP|5.21.08 @ 2:59PM|#
If customers expect lactose and get sucrose, there is an argument they've been wronged. Would that be a reasonable expectation? I wouldn't think so, as the ingredients are printed on the side and though most people don't read them, that's because they aren't that important to most people. The entire organic issue seems like a red herring to remind Reason readers of what faction of the culture war they're in.
Zeb|5.21.08 @ 3:01PM|#
Organic processed foods always seemed a bit silly to me. Sugar
is the same damn thing however the sugar cane is grown.
I like organic agriculture because the produce is generally a lot
better and I think that pesticides and chemical fertilizers are
overused in conventional agriculture. But a lot of people seem to
grant some kind of magical powers to organic food which don't
really have any basis.
|5.21.08 @ 3:02PM|#
"Making sweeter formula so that babies like it more seems to
me contrary to the ethos of organic food."
"It's supposed to taste like that. It's good for you."
Zeb|5.21.08 @ 3:07PM|#
Warty, Fluffy,
Organic food is generally of higher quality (and price). I am not
sure how this relates to some sort of self imposed suffering or
masochism?
|5.21.08 @ 3:10PM|#
Still, says one pediatrician, "That organic formula would be
sweeter might not be a health risk, but it certainly isn't what the
parents [who buy organic products] have in mind."
This pediatrician is a moron.
A taste researcher concurs: "Making sweeter formula so that
babies like it more seems to me contrary to the ethos of organic
food."
Ditto this taste researcher. He would have a point if we were
talking about making it sweeter by using some kind of artificial
sweetener, but in this context, this guy is WAAY off base.
The main reason people want organic foods is because they want them
to be free of additives, preservatives, hormones, artificial colors
and products that only a food scientist could create.
They don't want their food to taste shitty. In fact most people I
know who buy organics foods actually do want their food to taste
good. They want their products to have real sugar, not artificial
sweetener (like Sucralose, or Saccarin) and don't want HFCS. I
don't know any that object to using one form of organic sugar vs.
another. Nor have I seen this be an issue in any of the stuff I
read about. These guys are just pulling shit out of their
ass.
And before everyone starts hatin' on people who purchase organic
foods or the organic foods movement as a whole -- please keep in
mind that these two turds don't represent "the movement". I dunno
why the Times is elevating these guys as an appeal authority on
organic foods, the movement, the ethos or anything else.
|5.21.08 @ 3:11PM|#
If customers expect lactose and get sucrose
And the reason they expect lactose is what, exactly?
|5.21.08 @ 3:11PM|#
organic food is just a fucking branding thing. sure theres organic certification but @ the end of the day, its branding. part of that brand equity includes vilifying corporations who are quick to make things taste sweeter to get money, which is not all that important because in a perfect world the government would take care of every single one of your neeeds and desires.
|5.21.08 @ 3:12PM|#
Organic processed foods always seemed a bit silly to me.
Sugar is the same damn thing however the sugar cane is
grown
Personally, I agree with this line of thought as well.
I'm most concerned with having my produce and meats be organic. If
I am gonna buy processed/packaged/heat and eat foods -- I don't
believe Organic is superior to non-organic.
I like organic agriculture because the produce is generally a
lot better and I think that pesticides and chemical fertilizers are
overused in conventional agriculture. But a lot of people seem to
grant some kind of magical powers to organic food which don't
really have any basis.
I second this as well.
|5.21.08 @ 3:13PM|#
And the reason they expect lactose is what,
exactly?
I don't think most people would expect lactose. I think this guy is
just opining about what he thinks people expect.
Old Bull Lee|5.21.08 @ 3:14PM|#
As a health nut who is not self-righteous about it, this pisses me off. I'm fairly neutral on the organic issue, but I get sick of people equating healthy food with sensual deprivation. It's not some repressive religion, it's science.
|5.21.08 @ 3:21PM|#
I don't think most people would expect lactose. I think this
guy is just opining about what he thinks people expect.
That commenter also claimed that "there is an argument they've been
wronged", which is why I asked about the basis of the expectation.
I can't conceive of a rational argument why someone would feel
wronged because they apparently didn't read the
label.
It's not the same as the "Chocolate bar must contain chocolate"
argument.
PC|5.21.08 @ 3:22PM|#
For all the organic grumbling, doesn't Reason buy food for their DC events from Wholefoods? Or do they smear some pesticides on it before serving?
Fluffy|5.21.08 @ 3:25PM|#
Organic food is generally of higher quality (and price). I
am not sure how this relates to some sort of self imposed suffering
or masochism?
I buy many organic products. I belong to an organic CSA.
I do this because I think these products are of higher quality and
taste.
It sounds like you are the same.
But we aren't the whole organic food market. There are also
stereotypical crunchy granola types who associate the concepts of
"natural", "organic" and "unpleasant". These individuals don't
really accept that something is healthy or meritorious unless it
tastes bad or otherwise creates some sort of inconvenience or
discomfort. That's the mindset that would think that an
organically-produced formula isn't "really" organic if it tastes
good. That subset of the organic food consuming public would prefer
it if the formula tasted like someone soaked the album art to a
Phish CD in paste and then rubbed some dirt on it and handed it to
you to suck on.
Leah|5.21.08 @ 3:27PM|#
I have a whole lot I could say about this, but I am too busy
chasing a nearly 2 year old to write a novel. But a couple
things-
1.) Human milk has a lot of lactose (almost all humans can digest
lactose up to about age 5 since that is the approximate age our
species of primate would wean our offspring if we didn't have all
sorts of cultural factors weighing in) and is actually far sweeter
than formula. Babies are made to want the sweetness of breastmilk
so that they will nurse and therefore ingest food. So the thing
about not wanting formula to be sweet because it is good for you is
completely idiotic.
2.) Formulas are always doing their best to get closer to the
makeup of breastmilk because when babies need artificial milk, it
is better to use formulas that at least attempt to have all of the
ingredients necessary for growth. Plus, suboptimal nutrition
(pretty much anything except breastmilk - formula is great at
keeping most kids healthy but certainly raises the infant mortality
risks) kills a lot of babies every year. That's why we're not using
evaporated milk and karo syrup anymore like in the first half of
the century.
So by sticking a cheaper, unresearched ingredient in, these
manufacturers are going on the theory that if it doesn't kill them
it must be ok. A lot of people are fine with that theory, I know,
but if I needed to use formula I most certainly would NOT be.
|5.21.08 @ 3:32PM|#
Never really paid attention in Chemistry class, but chemically sucrose and lactose are identical -- both are C12H22O11, however, as a polysaccharide they are each derived from two different component sugars: glucose and galactose for Lactose, and glucose and fructose for sucrose. I'm not sure if either lactose or sucrose is sweeter than the other. Not being lactose intolerant, I like them both.
Abdul|5.21.08 @ 3:37PM|#
can any sort of baby formula truly be organic, since breast
milk is both more natural and healthier
Pshaw. Reason is just shilling for Big Breast.
lynda Fassa|5.21.08 @ 3:47PM|#
It seems that a sweeter formula might predispose children to a sweet tooth later in life. In our obese, corn syrup society, kids with a stronger propensity for sweets is probably not what any parent purchasing organic formula is betting on. and probably not a good idea, either.
Rhywun|5.21.08 @ 3:47PM|#
I've found organic products to be pretty much a crap-shoot taste-wise. I've been to an organic restaurant where the food was downright inedible (to me), it was so bland - and it sure felt like that was part of the "charm" of the place, at least for the person who brought me there. On the other hand I've bought stuff like organic mac & cheese which was definitely of higher quality and better taste than the regular stuff. So yeah, "organic" means a lot of different things to different people.
New World Dan|5.21.08 @ 3:49PM|#
but chemically sucrose and lactose are identical -- both are
C12H22O11
Close, but not quite. They have different physical structures and
break down into different base sugars when digested.
Guy Montag|5.21.08 @ 3:53PM|#
Ron,
Do you remember/did you hear of the controversey back in the 1950s
or 60s about a baby food manufacturer adding extra salt(?) to their
baby food? When I was a kid I heard about it, more often than one
would think something like that would come up, but it was used as
some sort of "tricky corporation ploy" example.
Until now, I never thought to ask anybody how babyfood with extra
salt was forced on the parents, since the newborns are usually just
on formula until long after they get home. But an element to the
story was that the baby food was supplied to hospitals. Perhaps it
was supplied free to doctors to give out?
Anyway, this smacks as a watered-down version of that deal.
"Trickycorp is switching organics with better tasting
organics".
Leah|5.21.08 @ 3:57PM|#
lynda Fassa -
It seems logical to say that, but really that's totally untrue.
Like I said - breastmilk is the biological norm, and is far sweeter
tasting than any formula is. The problem is far more likely to lie
in the feeding practices of the parents. Do they feed kids when
they are hungry and stop when they are full? Then the kids will
probably do pretty well. If they force kids to wait until a
scheduled time to feed them, then the kid is starving so it gorges
itself, then the parent has 2 oz left in the bottle so they try to
force it down the kid, then that kid has some problems it's going
to have to deal with.
jtuf|5.21.08 @ 4:01PM|#
Bacteria can consume a wide range of sugars, so I don't think the switch will affect tooth decay. As far as eating habits are concerned, parents should just taste the new formula. If it tastes like diner, it is fine. If it tastes like dessert, it might make the child develop a sweet tooth.
Guy Montag|5.21.08 @ 4:03PM|#
jtuf,
Is that business that dairy products are worse than raw sugar for
your teeth been reversed or is it still the current view?
|5.21.08 @ 4:15PM|#
As far as eating habits are concerned, parents should just
taste the new formula. If it tastes like diner, it is fine. If it
tastes like dessert, it might make the child develop a sweet
tooth.
If you parent's basis for determining the health benefits of your
formula is whether or not it tastes like "dinner" (or "diner," if
you prefer), then developing a sweet tooth down the road is the
least of your worries.
|5.21.08 @ 4:17PM|#
Close, but not quite. They have different physical
structures and break down into different base sugars when
digested.
Right, I said that using different words in that same post. My
point is you are getting exactly the same number of Carbon,
Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms so there is nothing fraudulent in using
Sucrose instead of Lactose. It's only fraudulent if you use
non-organic sugar.
|5.21.08 @ 4:19PM|#
Anybody here ever tasted breast milk that you can recall? It is
very sweet flavored. If they make the formula sweeter than that, I
would think it intolerable. If real mother's milk doesn't cause a
sweet tooth later in life, I wouldn't worry over the other.
Oh yeah. Breast Milk? best. packaging. ever.
Colin Clout|5.21.08 @ 4:30PM|#
If folks are free to eat what they want to I am not going to be too troubled by those who only eat organic food.
Matt Moore|5.21.08 @ 4:43PM|#
"For all the organic grumbling, doesn't Reason buy food for
their DC events from Wholefoods? Or do they smear some pesticides
on it before serving?"
Not everything sold at Whole Foods is organic.
Paul|5.21.08 @ 4:51PM|#
Making sweeter formula so that babies like it more seems to
me contrary to the ethos of organic food."
And this is news how?
|5.21.08 @ 4:52PM|#
Organic products tend to be of a higher quality than non-organic
products, because organic foods are really an upper-middle-class
luxury.
However, there is nothing intrinsically superior about organic
foods. It is just that organic foods are marketed towards an
upscale demographic for high prices, and so naturally they need to
be higher quality.
If organic food movement became a mass-movement, you can expect the
quality of organic foods to decline.
|5.21.08 @ 4:53PM|#
Not everything sold at Whole Foods is organic.
True...it's just all priced as organic.
True story, on Sunday my local Whole Foods was selling Organic
Heirloom tomatoes @ $4.99 / pound.
Non-Organic Heirlooms were $5.99 / pound.
|5.21.08 @ 4:55PM|#
If folks are free to eat what they want to I am not going to be too troubled by those who only eat organic food.
Unfortunately, the type of people who only buy organic foods are
sometimes the type of people who want the government legislate
against "factory farming".
So there is some overlap between organic food consumers, and the
organic food political movement.
Episiarch|5.21.08 @ 5:03PM|#
Certain people refuse to shop at Wal-mart even though their
prices rule. They will spend more at some other more expensive
store, in order to reinforce their perceived superiority to people
who shop at Wal-mart. We all know these people, and they probably
include several posters here.
Whole Foods is the solution for people who view shopping at Safeway
or Price Chopper or Stop & Shop the same way as Wal-mart.
And as soon as Wal-mart starts making organic cheap and affordable
(they are currently working on their own line) these same people
will suddenly lose interest in organics and will find a new fad to
use to consider themselves better than the rabble.
|5.21.08 @ 5:08PM|#
@ episiarch - yes quite true. But i am better than the rabble and i shouldn't have to shop with them. We make statements about ourselves by where we shop. I don't want to send the message that i am a part of the status quo.
Zeb|5.21.08 @ 5:12PM|#
Anyone else think it is a bit funny that they mention tooth decay as a potential problem here? In infants?
Episiarch|5.21.08 @ 5:18PM|#
where in China is walmart getting organics?
From the wombs of unwanted females.
But i am better than the rabble and i shouldn't have to shop
with them. We make statements about ourselves by where we shop. I
don't want to send the message that i am a part of the status
quo.
And shopping at Whole Foods makes you not part of the
status quo? HA HA HA HA.
|5.21.08 @ 5:56PM|#
And as soon as Wal-mart starts making organic cheap and
affordable (they are currently working on their own line) these
same people will suddenly lose interest in organics and will find a
new fad to use to consider themselves better than the
rabble.
Epi, you seem to be projecting your own opinions about people who
want organics onto organic consumers. It isn't really about "status
symbols" -- no matter how many times you repeat it.
Why is it so hard to just accept that it really is about consumers
willing to pay more for what they consider a superior product?? Or
is it that it makes you feel better about yourself by convincing
yourself that these consumers are just superficial suckers who in
your mind are really just trying to show off how they are better
than you? Because as a I read these threads, the only obnoxious
ones are the ones insisting they know the motivations of why others
choose a particular product or insisting that organic consumers are
fools idiots and dumb hippies. I don't see any organic supporters
out here calling out the rubes for buying non-organic or ridiculing
the consumer choices of others.
Also, the local Super Target by me has quite a bit of organic
produce (and a small but growing selection of organic packaged
goods) -- most of it is priced better than Whole Foods/Trader
Joe's/Local Grocery store's organics.
The problem I have encountered with the produce from Super Target
is one of turnover. Most of the Organic produce I have bought from
Target goes bad FAST (like in a day or two) -- much faster than the
stuff I buy at other stores. I imagine it's because they don't move
enough product and lots of the produce sits there waiting to be
bought.
|5.21.08 @ 6:09PM|#
breastmilk . . . is far sweeter tasting than any formula
is.
Unfortunately, any attempt by me to empirically test this claim
would result in my body being dumped in the nearest river.
Or being left out for the buzzards. It would depend on whether my
wife turned right or left as she left our driveway with my body in
the trunk.
GILMORE|5.21.08 @ 7:03PM|#
Sugar is the same damn thing however the sugar cane is
grown.
...
this just invalidated basically anything you have to say in the
future.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose
dont get me started on beets and corn
GILMORE|5.21.08 @ 7:23PM|#
zball | May 21, 2008, 3:11pm | #
organic food is just a fucking branding thing.
Well I spent a year of my life analyzing the organic industry,
science, price/quality ratios, health risks of processed foods
(exposure to evil 'chemicals'), the supply chain cost-implications,
'sustainability' factors, soil impact, and came to.... the exact
same conclusion.
Some produce is in fact better, if you dont mind paying the vig for
it. tomatoes are particularly better. A lot of other produce isnt
any better at all. A lot is worse. lower yield, lower quality,
terrible inconsistency, high rate of spoilage, infestation,
variance... etc.
Processed organic foods are a complete crock of shit from top to
bottom.
Emotionally invested in organi|5.21.08 @ 7:26PM|#
Processed organic foods are a complete crock of shit from
top to bottom.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Mike Laursen|5.21.08 @ 7:37PM|#
And the reason they expect lactose is what,
exactly?
Because it is baby formula, which is supposed to be a close
substitute for breast milk. Lactose is the sugar one normally finds
in milk. Seems like a perfectly valid assumption to make that they
wouldn't suddenly switch to putting sucrose in baby formula.
Matt Moore|5.21.08 @ 7:43PM|#
Episiarch - The food at Whole Foods is more expensive because, frequently, it is better. This from a guy who does 98% of his grocery shopping at Wal-Mart.
GILMORE|5.21.08 @ 7:48PM|#
as Lotteries are "taxes on the the stupid", organic foods are in
many ways "taxes on the naive"
they both require a certain degree of faith, and have a small
psychological reward, albeit different ones.
One is tossing a penny in a pool hoping for a quick-&-easy path
out of poverty
the other is a pretty expensive path to self-satisfaction for
yuppies, more or less
the comment above about organic meats is interesting = im not so
bearish on that. Problem is the cost issue. (organic feed for the
organic cow = $$$). That and the small risk of like, death from
some horrible animal transferred virus or micro-organism
infestation.
But hey, its NATURAL to find living creatures in your shit, or for
a few people's brains to swell up and kill them.
I was interviewed for this article here, which is a pretty good
basic summary of the pros/cons on the produce side. For pregnant
woman, there is much more of a basic upside to the stuff.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_36/b3898129_mz070.htm
GILMORE|5.21.08 @ 8:06PM|#
R C Dean | May 21, 2008, 6:09pm | #
breastmilk . . . is far sweeter tasting than any formula is.
Unfortunately, any attempt by me to empirically test this claim
would result in my body being dumped in the nearest
river.
Hey, not if you're a wahabbi =
http://www.islam-watch.org/MuminSalih/Breast-Feeding-Man-Islam.htm
disclosure: this is not a "muslims-are-so-fucked-up" bash. I could
care less what weird shit they believe as long as it doesnt require
blowing up any more real estate near where i work
Mike Laursen|5.21.08 @ 8:51PM|#
breastmilk . . . is far sweeter tasting than any formula
is.
As a new father, I have tested this claim fairly recently. Breast
milk is a little sweeter than cow's milk. Formula is about the same
sweetness as breast milk with a "chemical" edge to it. Sort of like
Diet Coke compared to regular Coke.
Mike Laursen|5.21.08 @ 8:59PM|#
Never really paid attention in Chemistry class, but
chemically sucrose and lactose are identical -- both are
C12H22O11
Are you sure they are identical structurally? A quick glance at
oh-so-reliable Wikipedia seems to show different structure for the
two molecules although they have the same formula.
Automatt|5.22.08 @ 12:15AM|#
I'm a new father. My wife and I feed our infant son organic
formula because studies have shown that infants fed with organic
formula and baby food have fewer pesticide metabolites in their
bloodstream. I consider that a good reason to go organic for
this.
We previously used the Similac Organic for about a month but
switched to Earth's Best Organic Infant Formula today, largely
based on research I did as a result of this article. BTW, the
ingredients list for the Similac says "evaporated cane juice" which
sounds a lot healthier than "sugar".
As it turns out, Earth's Best lactose-sweetened formula tastes
about half as sweet as the Similac. This is important because when
you are weaning a baby the key is to teach them to eat the
less-sweet items first, and give them the sweet tasting fruits
later. Otherwise, they become accustomed to the sweeter foods and
won't want to eat the less sweet things.
I'm convinced after tasting both formulas, talking to our
pediatrician, and seeing my baby's reaction to them that the
sweeter Similac Organic would needlessly cause problems for us. I'm
kind of pissed that they are using an ingredient like refined sugar
in their brand-new organic formula.
I'm happy that they are banning refined sugar in EU infant formulas
-- the EU seems a lot more on the ball when it comes to consumer
health risks these days than the FDA.
Sean Healy|5.22.08 @ 8:27AM|#
Hi. I live in the EU. And they seem a lot more on the ball when
it comes to telling people what to do.
My baby drinks nothing but pure Irish whiskey, by the way. It's
triple distilled, so twice as smooth. No chance of him developing a
sweet tooth like those lesser primates who eat bananas and other
delicious, easy-to chew fruits.
Steve|5.22.08 @ 11:38AM|#
The entire organic issue seems like a red herring to remind
Reason readers of what faction of the culture war they're
in.
Organic foods lie on one side or the other? Not in my experience.
God wants you to have a healthy body, so does the state, as long as
the god-mongers and state-worshippers are content at
promoting healthy eating and healthy living instead
mandating wellness, it's a non-issue for me.
My fellow libertarian brother and i talk a good game about healthy
living but we both cheat, my big thing is nutritional value not
organics, my vegan sister is a neo-con, and my
everything-edible-must-have-ORGANIC-written-on-the-box-with-the-possible-exception-of-icecubes
mother is an old right fundie, my liberal grandmother grows her own
food.
Not sure what like or dislike of organic food is supposed mean in
the context of the culture war...
|5.22.08 @ 12:45PM|#
BTW, the ingredients list for the Similac says "evaporated cane juice" which sounds a lot healthier than "sugar".
Well, if it sounds healthier, then by god, it must be
so!
I'm happy that they are banning refined sugar in EU infant formulas...
Boy, there's a shocker.
|5.22.08 @ 1:38PM|#
Most of the research regarding "ose" variants have concentrated
on the lipid levels in adults. They show little difference btwn
glucose, sucrose and lactose.
I certainly understand parents' concerns about chemicals, but would
ask them to remember that the human body is full of chemicals
That's why we're alive. In addition, the human body can filter out
an astounding amount of putative 'poisons.' What's more, The
Greatest Generation is living longer, far longer that their
ancestors who lived in a totally "natural" environment. I'm pushing
60 and remember playing with mercury in chemistry class. Today,
people panic at the slightest trace of the stuff. Hey, the dose
makes the poison. You can die if you drink too much water.
Regarding the "organic" label -- well, what's an inorganic food.
This is a carbon based planet. Organic food offers no measurable
benefits and can be a real budget buster. Organic farmers can grow
far less produce than those who use fertilizer and pesticides. I
can't imagine the paucity of food and imported seasonal products
(the bananas I bought this morning came from S. America).
As well, it's important to understand that a food can be grown
organically but processed organically and vice versa. You can't
tell from the label. 95% could mean that 5% of a product is pure
arsenic (excuse the exaggeration).
I submit that the public falls into two major categories: Those who
failed every science class they ever took and eye rolling skeptics
who ignore the HealthScare industry. There're a buncha buck$ to be
garnered promulgating fear.
|5.22.08 @ 1:41PM|#
The great organic myths rebutted
I buy organic produce and for sure it does cost more but make no
mistake it is better. The tomatoes, strawberries, blackberries,
broccoli, apples, oranges etc etc. Those tomatoes taste like the
ones my Grandmother used to grow. Mother nature will produce a
healthier, tastier and more nutritious plant.
|5.22.08 @ 1:48PM|#
"Organic farmers can grow far less produce than those who use
fertilizer and pesticides. I can't imagine the paucity of food and
imported seasonal products (the bananas I bought this morning came
from S. America)."
That's not true. In the transition period when converting to
organic(takes several years) it will produce less, but once
complete organic farms can equal or surpass traditional farms in
crop output
Robert|5.22.08 @ 7:09PM|#
"Making sweeter formula so that babies like it more seems to me
contrary to the ethos of organic food."
So I guess the ethos of organic food is to make things taste worse
so consumers don't like it as much.
Robert|5.22.08 @ 7:38PM|#
Anybody here ever tasted breast milk that you can recall? It is very sweet flavored.
My biochem labmate's tasted salty more than sweet. But Robin-Ann's
a salty lady in gen'l.
Wal-Mart's prices rule? For food? A few Augusts ago I visited my
friend Nancy in Mich. and found the vegetables at the Wal-Mart on
the road between Hillsdale and Jonesville high priced and not
especially good compared to what I'm used to in the Bronx.
GILMORE|5.22.08 @ 11:18PM|#
William R | May 22, 2008, 1:52pm | #
Organic Farms Produce Same Yields as Conventional Farms
Great study.
Nice science to avoid the 30%+ higher spoilage/loss rate that
prevents yields from getting to market as viable product
Carry on
|5.23.08 @ 12:02AM|#
Gilmore, lets see some documentation. Spoilage rates. Why on earth would organic produce have higher spoilage rates than any other. Fresh is fresh.
GILMORE|5.23.08 @ 2:40AM|#
see comment above, or buy the report I wrote.
some organic produce is more prone to self destruction in transit
(loss) due to damage, or more rapid spoilage due to temperature
storage or just plain time, because it's not bred or designed to be
delivered via the existing produce delivery infrastructure. its not
a contentious point. call OTA if you have questions. they arent all
that dissimulating about the cost-risks associated with production.
ask for Katherine DeMatteo
Sean Healy|5.23.08 @ 5:35AM|#
I buy organic produce and for sure it does cost more but
make no mistake it is better. The tomatoes, strawberries,
blackberries, broccoli, apples, oranges etc etc. Those tomatoes
taste like the ones my Grandmother used to grow. Mother nature will
produce a healthier, tastier and more nutritious plant.
Organics, in my experience, do not taste better as a general rule.
Organic eggs and meat certainly have better flavor, but I don't
discern much of a difference with fruit and vegetables. In fact,
with certain items - carrots, for instance - I find organics are
consistently worse in taste and texture.
It's more important, I think, to buy in season. That seems to make
a huge difference in quality. So I don't buy tomatoes except from
May to September - and I find buying on the vine is the key flavor
variable anyway.
|5.23.08 @ 11:20AM|#
Lets see it Gilmore. Not the Business week article. I know
several organic farmers. Small family farms that have been saved
since they converted to organic. Never any mention about spoilage
being higher. That's a crock.
Big Ag Business is funding the anti organic hysteria. Small farmers
are making a comeback due to increased interest in organic products
thus the big boys are pulling out all the stops.
B|5.23.08 @ 7:01PM|#
The ethos of organic food? Give me a fucking break. These people
are elitist snobs. There is absolutely no evidence, at all, that
organic food is healthier for you (just ask John Stossel) and there
have even been studies which indicated it is unhealthier for the
consumer and the environment.
These organic food people are elitist pricks who think their shit
doesn't stink. The makers of Similac ought to tell them to go fuck
themselves.
B|5.23.08 @ 7:06PM|#
"Anyone else think it is a bit funny that they mention tooth
decay as a potential problem here? In infants?"
Yeah, only the people who are ingnorant of pediatric dentistry,
like you.
The first teeth start arriving at around six months. Is this young
enough to be considered an infant? I don't know, but it is still
damn young. It is extremely important from a dental point of view
to maintain primary teeth, as they most importantly serve as
spaceholders for secondary teeth. A sure fire way to have a fucked
up set of teeth as an adolescent and into adulthood is to have
fucked up teeth as a young child. The ONLY sugar that is capable of
initiating the cavitation process is sucrose.
So to answer your question, the only people who find it funny are
the ignorant ones.
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