Wright Erratum

I'm largely uninterested in this never-ending Jeremiah Wright controversy, and I'll leave the debunking of his nutty National Press Club rant to others in the blogosphere. But there is one minor point that deserves a correction. According to Wright, his "congregation stood in solidarity with the peasants in El Salvador and Nicaragua, while our government, through Ollie North and the Iran-Contra scandal, was supporting the Contras, who were killing the peasants and the Miskito Indians in those two countries."

I'm not sure I would be trumpeting my "solidarity" with the foul dictatorship of Daniel Ortega, but I suppose that's a matter of taste. It should be noted, though, that it was the Sandinista government that famously massacred truculent Miskito Indians, who then responded by fighting a prolonged guerilla war against the very government supported by liberation theologists like Wright. In 2007, The Independence Institute's Alvaro Vargas Llosa reminded playwright Harold Pinter of "the 1981 massacre of Miskito Indians on Nicaragua's Atlantic coast" after he praised the Sandinista government in his Nobel speech.

Under the guise of a literacy campaign, the Sandinistas, with the help of their Cuban cadres, tried to indoctrinate the Miskitos with Marxist ideology. But the independent-minded Indians refused to accept Sandinista control. Accusing them of supporting opposition groups based in Honduras, Ortega's men killed as many as 50 Miskitos, imprisoned hundreds, and forcibly relocated many more.

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  • thoreau||

    A thread on a leftist gov't. vs. right wing guerrillas. With Rev. Wright mixed in.

    I predict 400+ posts. Who's with me here?

  • Naga Sadow||

    I think Rev Wright's new national spotlight is going to his head.

    Thoreau,

    I give it 150 tops but you probably have more experience than me in blogging.

  • Mike Laursen||

    The Independent Institute

  • ||

    Interesting. Standing in solidarity with an oppressed "peasant" is the same thing as standing in solidarity with the person oppressing that "peasant".

    I'm sure many on the left stood in solidarity with Ortega, "thinking" they were in solidarity with the "peasants".

    However, I can't see this quote, and only this quote, leading to the same premise.

    Your premise seems to be along the lines of: I opposed the invasion of Iraq, so somehow I was in solidarity with Saddam? Not likely, tin plate dictator that he was. Not sure I follow your logic.

  • Random Grouch||

    Rants attacking Neocon foreign policy in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

  • Neil||

    This once again shows how far, far left Barack Obama is. Hes just too extreme.

  • ||

    I guess I should point out that I stand against death squads, whether or not they are funded by Americans or Ortega's. And hence, I believe, rightly or wrongly, I stand in solidarity with the "peasants", against those who would use them as chess pieces in sick little games.

  • jkp||

    Thank you for pointing this out. I was pulling out whatever hair I have left when I heard that reference.

  • Episiarch||

    After the union thread, do people have the energy for 400+?

  • Elemenope||

    This once again shows how far, far left Barack Obama is. Hes just too extreme.

    Yes, Neil. Clearly, Jeremiah Wright and Barack Obama share one brain. Such an abomination can never be allowed to lead us!


    ------
    Oh, and Lawrence nailed down this thread pretty quickly, I'd say.

  • thoreau||

    Yeah, the union thread is sucking up a lot of the energy.

    I'll mention the name "Ron Paul" and see what happens. Here goes:

    Ron Paul

  • ||

    Apparently Neil believes that we should have judged Ronald Reagan by, lets say, Pat Robertson's opinions.

    Wait a sec, maybe he is right. What are we gonna do with all of these anti-American, anti-science, anti-freedom of religion fundamentalists on the right?

  • ||

    Oh, and thanx Elemenope.

  • Naga Sadow||

    I agree with Episiarch. Watching Joe do battle was exhausting. I can picture him with a sweatband on his head and a pile of emptied water bottles next to his keyboard.

  • Neil||

    Judge him by his voting record. Hes the most liberal member of the Senate according to the National Journal.

    Thats far, far far left liberal.

  • ||

    Wright's a dick, and Obama was correct in throwing the fucking prick under the bus.

  • ||

    That Neil, I would agree with. Judge him by his record.

  • ||

    Neil, but weren't you judging him by Wrights record in your earlier comment?

    Could you reconcile that for me?

  • Naga Sadow||

    One man's peasant guerrilla is another man's cannon fodder in the defense of capatilism.

    That thread left a foul taste in my mouth . . .

  • Neil||

    When you look at Obama's far-left liberal voting record, AND pair that with Rev. Wright, and his calling heartland voters "bitter", and his wife's statements, it becomes part of a very disturbing pattern.

  • ||

    Mr. Moynihan,

    I was wondering, aren't you accusing anyone who opposes interventionist policies of the good ole US of A, of supporting "tyrants"?

    Or did I really misunderstand?

  • ||

    Let's get this thread up to 500.

    Let's see:
    joe molests collies. Unions cause inflation. Cooperative behavior is for fags. Neil has American flag toilet paper. Episiarch and thoreau are afraid to go down on women.
    That should do for a while.

  • ||

    Well Neil, I would only ask if you apply this kind of analysis to all politicians, and not just those on the left.

    If you do, than I am in complete agreement, in principle.

    However, I have a sneaking suspicion that you don't, but perhaps I'm just being cynical.

  • ||

    Naga Sadow,

    I agree with Episiarch. Watching Joe do battle was exhausting. I can picture him with a sweatband on his head and a pile of emptied water bottles next to his keyboard.

    joe doesn't need sweatbands and water, he has his +3 cloak of self-righteousness to provide for his bodily needs.

    Of course, he was a bit crippled by only having one member of his partisan back-up singers with him. But he can still pat himself on the back for a long, hard day of struggling mightily against the "libertarian threat."

  • Episiarch||

    I'll mention the name "Ron Paul" and see what happens.

    You forgot: Racist Newsletters

  • Episiarch||

    Episiarch and thoreau are afraid to go down on women.

    Are you not calling me a muff diver?

    I can't speak for Dr. T.

  • ||

    Jamie Kelly,

    joe molests collies. Unions cause inflation. Cooperative behavior is for fags. Neil has American flag toilet paper. Episiarch and thoreau are afraid to go down on women.

    I really don't see how posting a dry collection of well-known facts is supposed to spark controversy.

  • shecky||

    Oh, for fuckssakes...

    ...at least 400...

  • ||

    Reverend Wright is a white guy with a perm.

  • Episiarch||

    Of course, he was a bit crippled by only having one member of his partisan back-up singers with him.

    I haven't seen a beatdown like the one on joe today since Peter Weller in Robocop.

    (maybe that'll get this thread going)

  • MK2||

    "Ortega's men killed as many as 50 Miskitos"

    I'm sorry, but this doesn't quite measure up to the killing standards set in Vietnam and Iraq.

  • Naga Sadow||

    SugarFree,

    I thought joe's "help" was just him posting under different names.

    Jamie Kelly,

    Collies? I better warn my friend. He has two collies.

  • thoreau||

    Speaking of Peter Weller, I liked his work on 24 as Jack's former boss and Logan's henchman.

  • ||

    SugarFree, that was fucking funny.

  • ||

    Episiarch and thoreau are afraid to go down on women.



    Men, on the other hand . . .

    Zing!

    Hes just too extreme.



    No, Neil, he's just EXTREME enough! Can you smell what Barack's cookin'?

    EXTREME! Whoooooooo!

  • ||

    I'm sorry, but this doesn't quite measure up to the killing standards set in Vietnam and Iraq.

    Ya the US does a much better job at less deaths for the buck in areas which have much less influence from Europe and Asia. Even are enemies in Latin America are more humane.

    Seriously Latin America really needs to be cast more as the jewel of American Imperialism.

  • Episiarch||

    Speaking of Peter Weller, I liked his work on 24 as Jack's former boss and Logan's henchman.

    Also good in the short-lived Odyssey 5.

  • PLant Immigration RIghts Suppo||

    If you want to show your support for the Contras you still can

    http://contracafe.com/

  • ||

    Standing in solidarity with an oppressed "peasant" is the same thing as standing in solidarity with the person oppressing that "peasant".

    Well, when the oppressors are charismatic anti-American Marxists, then the oppression is being done for the good of the peasant.

    So its all good.

  • ||

    Does Latin America use DDT?

    Why are they not all dying of malaria?

  • Plant Immigration RIghts Suppo||

    Does Latin America use DDT?

    Apparently not in Latin North America:

    http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/166/10/1322.pdf

  • ||

    LMNOP-

    Yes, Neil. Clearly, Jeremiah Wright and Barack Obama share one brain. Such an abomination can never be allowed to lead us!

    Of the thousands of Christian churches in Chicago, Obama voluntarily picked the one with a preacher whose entire theology was (and is) based upon "Hate Whitey!"

    Why?

    Then, Obama actually referred to this ignorant, racist fuckwit as his "spiritual mentor" and a "father-figure"- in his own "autobiography".

    Why?

    Then, after listening to 15+ years of this "Reverend's" insane "sermons", Obama still chose to give this unrepentant bigot over $25,000.00 during the last three years.

    Why?


  • charlie||

    So Michael Moynihan creates a post that happens to call out all those evil leftists for supporting the Sandinistas, who apparently were responsible for the deaths of 50 Miskito Indians, but he somehow fails to leave out the scores more people raped, tortured, and murdered by U.S. allies, the Contras.

    Funny, that.

    Wright pointing out the immorality of U.S. foreign policy in Latin America isn't worthy of a post -- why, the DC establishment has already decided he's nuts, and you don't get sweet neocon gigs by expressing sympathy for anything he might say. No, no -- much better to criticize him for a factual error than to concede he might have a point.

  • Naga Sadow||

    anon,

    What's not to hate bout whitey?

    Disclosure: My grandmother is mexican so upon occasion I claim my hot blooded latin relatives side of the gene pool.

  • Elemenope||

    Obama chose to be born in Hawaii.

    Why?

    He can't bowl worth shit.

    Why?

    He has a tall, lanky build.

    Why?

    Overdramatic typographical acrobatics inscribe a lot of inherent fail to people's comments.

    Why?

    These are the mysteries of the age.

  • Elemenope||

    p.s., on the substance (of which you blessedly provided little), this statement is particularly risible:

    Obama voluntarily picked the one with a preacher whose entire theology was (and is) based upon "Hate Whitey!"

    I listened to what he has said about his theology, and I have listened to some of his sermons. I am a honky Atheist (and fairly proud American), and I am not scared or offended by them. In point of fact, to anyone who knows even a little bit about the Bible and a little bit about American policy, a lot of his critiques sound fairly reasonable, if phrased a little...excitedly. Nothing of what he said indicated to me that he "hates whitey" or that he teaches his congregants to do so.

    What, did the preacher hit a little too close to home for you? Threaten a few sacred cows? Impugn the stainless honor of the great USA? Why are you so excited?

  • ||

    Wright pointing out the immorality of U.S. foreign policy in Latin America isn't worthy of a post

    Sure, whatev. I think the point of the post was how nicely it highlights a certain reflex - that anything bad that happens must be the fault of the US.

  • ||

    Does Latin America use DDT?

    Apparently not in Latin North America:


    "For 40 years we've used DDT, but
    now we have a sustainable alternative,"

    So it worked for 40 years without Mosquitoes evolving resistance?

    That is fucking weird. That commie at Deltoid should read about this....it might actually mean he advocates a policy that has resulted in millions of deaths.

    Which begs the question...Who is worse the Sandinistas who killed 50 people or joe who advocates for a policy that has resulted in millions of deaths?

  • ||

    "Sure, whatev. I think the point of the post was how nicely it highlights a certain reflex - that anything bad that happens must be the fault of the US."

    Well, the opposite reflex certainly exists, that the US, like the pope, is inerrant. I suspect which reflex dominates depends on your frame of reference, ehh?

  • ||

    Ah, people defending the Sandinistas... it takes me back to simpler time... a time when too many people wore head-bands and pants were made out of nylon. I miss the 80s. This whole thread should be set to a Cyndi Lauper song. Maybe Captain Lou could write a post.

    Sandanista-nistas. 20 years of wrong and still going strong.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Wow. Didn't even make it to 100. Maybe this will help:

    The Independence Institute's Alvaro Vargas Llosa reminded playwright Harold Pinter of "the 1981 massacre of Miskito Indians on Nicaragua's Atlantic coast" after [Pinter] praised the Sandinista government in his Nobel speech.



    Good for Llosa. And good for his dad, who wrote the book that became this movie, starring the incredibly lovely Angie Cepeda. (The second one is NSFW)

  • ||

    I'm married to a Nicaraguan, have a multitude of Nica friends, and the first thought I had when I heard the fould Rev. Wright was, "that bastards just makin' it up, isn't he. Liar."

    Everyone in Nicaragua knows what happened with the Miskito indians; Ortegas forces wanted genocide.

    Most Nicas hate Ortega, even some Sandinistas we know, and the lion's share think he's an unstable demogogue. Hmmmm, come to think of it, Wright and Ortega were made for each other.

    And yes, we drink Contra Cafe.

  • ||

    My punctuation sucks because I'm spittin' mad about how the Left loves to cozy to leftist dictators who turn their countries into trash heaps.

  • Guy Montag||

    Oh, silly Michael. Whenever one was standing against the "oppressive" Reagan/Bush/North administration in the 1980s is it really all that important who was killing the Indians?

    The important thing here is that the Rev. wright was against freedom free markets Death Squads Indians Reagan.

    Feelings matter, not facts.

  • Guy Montag||

    Maybe the good Rev, was getting his history from that "Rocket Launcher" song? Or, perhaps, a horrid Clash album?

  • Guy Montag||

    Who is worse the Sandinistas who killed 50 people or joe who advocates for a policy that has resulted in millions of deaths?

    The answer is always joe.

  • Les||

    Well, the opposite reflex certainly exists, that the US, like the pope, is inerrant. I suspect which reflex dominates depends on your frame of reference, ehh?

    Indeed, while it's legitimate and important to point out where the blow-hard Wright made stuff up (I'm attacking the Black Church, now, just by pointing out his bullshit! Amazing!), there are a few folks here who get more worked up over stupid leftists saying stupid things than they do over the fact that U.S. tax dollars were proudly used to vigorously support terrorists.

  • ||

    Nothing different than any of today's douchebag leftist ranting about the "massacre" of Iraqis by the evil US, today. Knowing full well that 99.9% of all Iraqi deaths since the end of Saddam's regime have bseen killed by IEDs planted by the terrorist and insurgents.

    But it is okay because in liberal land, everything is the fault of America. Ortega massacres the Miskitos, America's fault because we gave them weapons. They should have died quietly for the revolution.

  • ||

    G*d Damn Amerikka!!!!!! Obamma '08

  • ||

    And, Ortega raped his step-daughter.

    Don't judge him, though, he's "just different."

  • Les||

    See?

  • dhex||

    But it is okay because in liberal land, everything is the fault of America.

    and in conservative land, nothing is america's fault.

    that's why everything is in such harmony. you're all a bunch of assholes!

  • Rick H.||

    that's why everything is in such harmony. you're all a bunch of assholes!

    Looks like dhex has chiseled the headstone for this thread.

  • ||

    The author from your link describes a familiar complaint. Currently, academics teach that theme; "the Sandinistas are revolutinary heroes", throughout a range of college departments. This revolutionary theme is not limited to the poly sci or history departments, but in particular, the religion departments promote that version of history through their "Liberation Theology" classes.

    Recently, my nephew took a highly popular, "Liberation Theology" religion course offered by his college. He gave his mother a very positive class description. At the end of the semester, he announced that the professor had convinced him to adopt this "exciting new way to look at Christianity.

    He did not explain, however, that his professor had been promoting a form of revolutionary Marxism.

    It's remarkable how often this sort of trojan horse is wheeled through the gates of the universities. Parents must be frustrated to find they are paying for their children to learn how to become revolutionaries

  • Les||

    Looks like dhex has chiseled the headstone for this thread.

    It's a perfect headstone for a good many thread. I will quote it often and dhex will live forever.

  • Guy Montag||

    How much longer is Rev. Wright going to be "Ridin' Dirty" on the Senator's coattails?

    Les, don't forget to bring your Sandinistas flag to the Demcrat convention in Denver. Fly it high, fly it proud! Make sure the rest of the world can see who the tolerant people are!

  • ||

    I want to know, where Rev Wright stands on the 'number 19' and the height of the Washington Monument. Reporters are all too cowardly to ask him this.

    Rush has had his "Million Man Math" parody on Farrakhan's speech. Maybe it's time to put together a "Million Man History" parody for Rev Wright. Besides, it's left-brained to focus on the facts on the reality, get with your right brain and focus on the intention, on the emotions. Truth doesn't matter, when you're uncovering the the crimes of God damned Amerikkka. Come on, give the brother a break.

  • ||

    50?

    Was that a typo?

    I mean, when discussing human rights abused in Central America in the 70s and 80s, there's no way someone would decide to highlight something with a death toll of 50.

    Oh, and btw, liberalism has most certainly not resulted in millions of deaths.

  • ||

    corning, the DDT scam has been so thoroughly routed that not even Bailey tries to push it anymore.

  • ||

    The question has been asked "Is anything Wright says true?". On this and many other blogs and the answer is no he lies with every breath but then so does his scion Obama Messiah(PBUH).

  • ||

    "Oh, and btw, liberalism has most certainly not resulted in millions of deaths."

    Surely you jest

    If you refer to "Modern liberalism" this movement is not the liberalism of JFK and Truman.* The traditional "liberal" of the 50s and 60s is now an endangered species replaced by the "progressive" movement. Progressive ideology more closely matches that of Mao, Lenin, et al. This virulent form of socialism seeks to implement its goals by establishing an authoritarian form of government.**

    The Socialist/Communist revolutions in the Soviet Union, China and Russia resulted in the deaths of millions of people. In the Soviet Union alone, the policies of Lenin and Stalin ended up with a death toll of over 20 million people before the start of WWII.

    Please don't attempt that tiresome revisionist canard that attempts the nonsensical argument these socialist/communist regimes were really "right wing"; it doesn't hold up to the historical test. These ideologies consistently implement repression of any opposing political, religious and cultural beliefs.

    Should progressive liberalism gain control of the USA, it would take off the mask to reveal itself as yet another Castro, Hugo Chavez; Stalinesque-style movement which would immediately shut down any opposition media outlets and outlaw its political critics.

    Ever since the early 20th century; it's been the same old, tired propaganda.



    *political labels often change their meaning over time. For example, look at liberals in the early 19th century- they promoted total freedom from any state involvement with industry; including no child labor laws, minimum wage laws or working conditions standards--not what you'd expect from the "liberal" label.

    A "liberal" democrat of the 1960's would be re-defined today as a moderate or conservative. Certainly liberal democratic presidents FDR, Truman, JFK and LBK were all strong foreign policy hawks. I'd say FDR and Truman, both Democratic liberals and presidents during WWII could be held responsible the deaths of millions of enemy German and Japanese soldiers, not to mention Hiroshima. Most Americans consider WII a moral war; but those "liberals" lead a fight where millions died.

    All four "liberal" presidents would have approved the Iraq War, and would be horrified at the current Democratic Party leadership. These "liberal" presidents would be spurned by today's "liberals" or "progressive".


    **For an example of "progressive" methods one need look no further that the model found in the current political repression enforced on university campuses.

  • ||

    Maoism and Stalinist were just two more non-liberal ideologies. That they are to the left of liberalism rather the right is irrelevant.

    Just two more alternatives to liberals that failed, as they always do.

    Pretending not to know the difference isn't actually an impeachment of liberalism.

  • ||

    You're playing the same old shell game Joe.

    It's an empty argument which doesn't hold up under examination.

  • ||

    Of course.

    Whey, the very idea that the political philosophy of John Kerry and Al Gore is meaninfully differnt from that of Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin is merely a shell game.

    Of course they're the same thing. People opposed to liberalism say they are, and that's that.

  • Les||

    Les, don't forget to bring your Sandinistas flag to the Demcrat convention in Denver. Fly it high, fly it proud! Make sure the rest of the world can see who the tolerant people are!

    This is a bad habit you have, Guy. When you don't have a rational response to being called out for getting more worked up over stupid leftists saying stupid things than you do over U.S. taxes being used to fund terrorism, you resort to name-calling.

    I hope you don't honestly believe that anyone who thinks that we shouldn't have used terrorists to fight the Sandinistas must, therefore, support the Sandinistas (or be a Democrat!). That would be a really stupid thing to believe. That would be as stupid as believing that, since the Sandinistas overthrew the murderous dictator Samoza, the Sandinistas must have been a benevolent force in Nicaragua. You don't want to be that stupid, do you, Guy?

  • Les||

    And Guy, when I say "stupid" I honestly, sincerely am not saying that you are stupid, because I don't think you are. You often make me laugh in a good way. But when you get reflexive and defensive, you do say stupid things.

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