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The Taco: Enemy of Freedom
Los Angeles County has vanquished one of the greatest foes of commerce in SoCal:
County Supervisors on Tuesday unanimously passed a law making it a misdemeanor crime for [taco] trucks to stay in a spot longer than one hour.
Restaurant owners complained that the trucks draw customers away from their businesses, particularly in predominantly Hispanic East Los Angeles.
"Many restaurants are forced to close their doors because they cannot compete with a catering truck's prices," said Louis Herrera, president of the Greater East Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce. "It's unfair competition."
The punishment for doing damage to the struggling East L.A. Mexican food industry? Up to six months in jail and/or a $1000 fine. The Los Angeles Times adds some context about the fight:
Some say that newly emerging businesses in a community with more restaurants and cafes than ever are rendering mobile restaurants obsolete -- and unwanted.
"They prohibit a community from moving forward," said Ron Mukai, a longtime developer in the community. "They make it unattractive for legitimate brick-and-mortar businesses to come in. Why would a restaurant come in when there's 10 catering trucks on Olympic Boulevard? There was a time when catering trucks filled a legitimate need because there was no willing vendor in East L.A. But for the sake of bettering the community, their time has passed."
This is a cover story, of course, for the real issue: Truck-bound vendors don't have to pay property taxes.
Guy Montag|4.16.08 @ 10:22AM|#
"Many restaurants are forced to close their doors because
they cannot compete with a catering truck's prices," said Louis
Herrera, president of the Greater East Los Angeles Chamber of
Commerce. "It's unfair competition."
Those guys could not possibly move out of the storefront and into
trucks, with their "unique" yummy Tacos of course, and compete on
the street?
Then again, I see a possible positive consequence of patrons no
longer having to hike to the taco trucks, one will be along pretty
soon.
Wonder if the taco truck guys could find out which shops were
complaining about them and make sure a different truck is stationed
right out front, changing every hour?
This is a cover story, of course, for the real issue:
Truck-bound vendors don't have to pay property taxes.
Yea, I can see that.
|4.16.08 @ 10:28AM|#
Restaurant owners complained that the trucks draw customers
away from their businesses, particularly in predominantly Hispanic
East Los Angeles.
"Many restaurants are forced to close their doors because they
cannot compete with a catering truck's prices," said Louis Herrera,
president of the Greater East Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce.
"It's unfair competition."
A lower price is unfair competition? What a bunch of old boys club
assholes. While not as disdainful of the public as sweetheart
legislation the beer and wine distributors get here in Michigan,
having the state harass your competitors is pretty damned fucded
up..
|4.16.08 @ 10:36AM|#
The question is: what is the purpose of property taxes. Is it a user fee for fire protection and other brick and mortar only needs? Or, is it a convenient way to fund police, schools and libraries? If the former, then they need to be better competitors. If the latter, then the brick and mortar people are being stuck with an unfairly disproportionate part of that bill. Sort of like letting internet firms off on state sales taxes, while forcing brick and mortar firms to charge them. It sounds cool to demand no taxes on the internet, but to use that to shift them onto brick and mortar firms is wrong.
Christopher Monnier|4.16.08 @ 10:38AM|#
It's not unfair competition because the prices are too low, but it is unfair in the sense that the trucks (1) don't pay property taxes and (2) are essentially rent-seeking on public land paid for largely by gas taxes with the intent of being used for transportation.
|4.16.08 @ 10:40AM|#
"Many restaurants are forced to close their doors because they
cannot compete with a catering truck's prices," said Louis Herrera,
president of the Greater East Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce.
"It's unfair competition."
I'm not sure I know what "unfair competition" is unless it is
declared so by law (such as, I believe, selling at a loss to drive
your competitors out and then raising prices is illegal). Unfair in
this case seems to refer to how the vans are better meeting their
customers' needs.
Jennifer|4.16.08 @ 10:42AM|#
It's not unfair competition because the prices are too low,
but it is unfair in the sense that the trucks (1) don't pay
property taxes and (2) are essentially rent-seeking on public land
paid for largely by gas taxes with the intent of being used for
transportation.
The nerve of some people, thinking that they're here for some
purpose other than to fund a perennially cash-hungry
government.
Taktix®|4.16.08 @ 10:43AM|#
There was a time when
catering truckssingle-family homes filled a legitimate need because there was nowilling vendorlarge commercial development inEast L.A.New London, Conn. But for the sake of bettering the community, their time has passed.
|4.16.08 @ 10:44AM|#
"Many restaurants are forced to close their doors because they
cannot compete with a catering truck's prices," said Louis Herrera,
president of the Greater East Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce.
"It's unfair competition."
"Some say that newly emerging businesses in a community with more
restaurants and cafes than ever are rendering mobile restaurants
obsolete -- and unwanted."
Uh, so which one is it? Can't have it both ways.
Guy Montag|4.16.08 @ 10:44AM|#
It's not unfair competition because the prices are too low,
but it is unfair in the sense that the trucks (1) don't pay
property taxes and (2) are essentially rent-seeking on public land
paid for largely by gas taxes with the intent of being used for
transportation.
When did CA exempt taco trucks from commercial licensing? If LA has
a sticker requirement, how are taco trucks the only ones who don't
pay for it?
Can I label a ca parts truck as a taco truck and escape all those
taxes that other commercial trucks have to pay?
Next we can discuss how taco trucks magically get to escape
inspections and other unconcionable regulatory hoops that any other
food vendor has to go through.
|4.16.08 @ 10:48AM|#
"Next we can discuss how taco trucks magically get to escape
inspections and other unconcionable regulatory hoops that any other
food vendor has to go through."
They are inspected? Phew, that's a relief! After all the tacos de
cesos I have eaten at 230am.
Guy Montag|4.16.08 @ 10:51AM|#
rana,
I did not mean to imply that I am in favor of that government
inspection crap either.
Jennifer|4.16.08 @ 10:51AM|#
"Many restaurants are forced to close their doors because
they cannot compete with a catering truck's prices," said Louis
Herrera, president of the Greater East Los Angeles Chamber of
Commerce. "It's unfair competition."
Ways to compete without whining to the government:
Atmosphere: A taco truck may be a good place to fill your belly,
but it's hardly the best stop for a romantic date. I cannot confirm
this, but I've heard rumors that young taco-truck-customer men and
women like to court each other same as white Americans do. Perhaps
some of the men would like to take their lady friends to a nice yet
affordable restaurant? And then Louis Herrera could work this to
his advantage.
Climate comfort: I prefer sitting down in an air-conditioned
restaurant to standing on a hot sidewalk when I'm eating. Many
others feel the way I do, and a restaurant is far better suited
than a taco truck to provide AC and comfy chairs.
Variety: due to space considerations, a taco truck can't possibly
offer as many food choices as can a restaurant with a permanent
kitchen and room for storage. Perhaps a smart restaurant owner
could somehow work this to his advantage?
There you go. I am neither a businesswoman nor a restaurateur, yet
I was still able to come up with three possibilities. I'm sure an
experienced person like Louis Herrera could come up with even more,
if he'd go back to minding his own business rather than whine to
the government to mind it for him.
|4.16.08 @ 10:53AM|#
If you're not paying your fair share of taxes, you're
stealing from the government.
In this situation, the element of competitive unfairness seems to
be differentiation. The nerve of those hombres, providing
quick-and-easy snackery.
Choose one:
"everybody always wants tacos from a truck"
"nobody ever wants tacos from a truck"
|4.16.08 @ 10:54AM|#
Why would a restaurant come in when there's 10 catering
trucks on Olympic Boulevard?
This is exactly why there are no restaurants at all in Manhattan.
The hot dog carts have run them all into the ground.
|4.16.08 @ 10:58AM|#
A sit down place that can't compete with a mobile taco
truck?
Improve the cuisine! That should be like Ruths Chris getting put
out of business by Denny's!
Guy Montag|4.16.08 @ 10:59AM|#
Atmosphere: A taco truck may be a good place to fill your
belly, but it's hardly the best stop for a romantic date. I cannot
confirm this, but I've heard rumors that young taco-truck-customer
men and women like to court each other same as white Americans do.
Perhaps some of the men would like to take their lady friends to a
nice yet affordable restaurant? And then Louis Herrera could work
this to his advantage.
That is the problem, too many elitist chicks expecting to sit
someplace besides the back seat of my Jeep after I got them a
"free" meal. The bitterness in LA must be on the rise.
|4.16.08 @ 11:04AM|#
This is a good example of the kind of madness that Libertarians
ought to be worried about and could actually do some good on. If
you think about it, Libertarians are in much the same position that
the evangelicals were in the early 1970s. They are a fringe group
that is not particularly organized and generally out of mainstream
and ignored but of significant numbers and with some legitimate
beefs with the larger political culture. The genius of the
evangelical movement was that it started small with small goals.
They didn't form a whacko third party and make meaningless runs for
the Presidency. They didn't even make meaningless runs for the
legislatures. They actually started by running for school boards.
The schools were their movement's bailiwick; the one thing that all
of them agreed upon. From their success in those races they built a
real political movement.
If you think about this from a libertarian prospective, there are
lots of local issues which are extremely important and about which
there is near unanimous agreement among libertarians. Moreover,
just like the evangelicals who had a real bitch about what was
going on in schools in the 1970s that resonated with the public at
large, the libertarians have a legitimate and resonant complaint
about things like this. If the Libertarian party had a ounce of
sense it would give up running a candidate for President every year
and concentrate strictly on local issues. Run people for positions
like county sheriff, district attorney, zoning board, city council
and the like. It would get them away from controversial issues that
don't always resonate with the public and allow them to focus on
issues that a majority of the public left and right would identify
with and agree with. The fact is that most of this kind of crap
goes on because no one pays attention to local politics and don't
know it is happening. The libertarians could do one hell of a
public service by funding the hell out of candidates in local
elections in areas where this kind of crap goes on. But to do that
they would have to stop worrying about the NSA listening to their
phone calls and start thinking practically. Fat chance.
|4.16.08 @ 11:04AM|#
"I did not mean to imply that I am in favor of that government
inspection crap either"
Guy, I was just hoping you meant that the health inspectors paid
them a visit from time to time...
|4.16.08 @ 11:04AM|#
All this talk of taco trucks has left me really pumped to find that there is an awesome taco truck a the corner of Union and Lake in Manchester, NH. Whoo!
Taktix®|4.16.08 @ 11:06AM|#
a taco truck can't possibly offer as many food choices as
can a restaurant with a permanent kitchen and room for
storage
Uhh, there's only so many ways you can arrange meat and a
tortilla...
|4.16.08 @ 11:08AM|#
Here in Portland, OR, some entrepreneurial parking lot owners in downtown began renting space to food trucks - charging more per square foot than they would normally get just from cars. The city licenses and inspects the food vendors and exercises its legitimate right to regulate street parking by not allowing them to do so. The brick and mortar restuarant owners still whine, but an uneasy peace has existed for some time. There are also smaller food carts allowed on sidewalks and around Pioneer Courthouse Square. Some of the food is pretty damn good, too.
|4.16.08 @ 11:11AM|#
It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me taco trucks or give me death!
Jennifer|4.16.08 @ 11:15AM|#
That is the problem, too many elitist chicks expecting to
sit someplace besides the back seat of my Jeep after I got them a
"free" meal.
I'm sure your personality has absolutely nothing to do with it. I,
personally, get weak-kneed whenever I'm in the presence of a man
who mentions his blog every five minutes whether it's relevant to
the conversation or not.
TomHynes|4.16.08 @ 11:15AM|#
In a libertarian world, the government wouldn't own the streets
or parking spaces. Have the government sell the parking spaces to
the highest bidder. Store owners could buy them and rent them out
(meters) or give them to customers for free.
That is pretty much what happens with malls. You don't see taco
trucks parked in the lots of privately owned malls.
Therefore, taco trucks probably are free riders on public parking
spaces and would disappear in a libertarian world.
|4.16.08 @ 11:18AM|#
"That is the problem, too many elitist chicks expecting to SCREW
someplace besides the back seat of my Jeep after I got them a
"free" meal."
(Sorry Guy, couldn't resist) ;)
|4.16.08 @ 11:23AM|#
That is pretty much what happens with malls. You don't see
taco trucks parked in the lots of privately owned malls.
In Hawaii you do. Not "Taco" trucks, per-se, but BBQ and stuff like
that, yeah.
|4.16.08 @ 11:23AM|#
"That is the problem, too many elitist chicks expecting to sit
someplace besides the back seat of my Jeep after I got them a
"free" meal. The bitterness in LA must be on the rise."
Guy, you just need to lower your standards. The ones that are happy
to screw in the back of a jeep in exchange for a free taco are more
fun anyway.
Jennifer|4.16.08 @ 11:23AM|#
Therefore, taco trucks probably are free riders on public
parking spaces and would disappear in a libertarian
world.
Or maybe not. There's a big flea market in the eastern part of my
state, inside one of those old mills that are common throughout New
England. Vendor space inside the flea market is at a premium; some
vendors have had their spots for 20 years and have no intention of
giving them up. And there's absolutely no stalls left to rent
inside.
But out in the parking lot, anybody who wants to can set up a table
for free, on a first-come first-served basis. From the owners'
perspective, I'm guessing it's a good thing because the more
vendors a flea market has, the more customers will want to come out
and buy stuff.
The indoor vendors who pay rent don't complain about "unfair
competition," because their indoor paid-for spaces are much better
than the free space available outdoors, they don't have to worry
about the weather and being able to leave your stuff there at the
end of the day is immeasurably easier than having to pack
everything up and go home.
If flea market vendors can handle the threat of cheaper
competition, I'm sure restaurant owners can too.
|4.16.08 @ 11:24AM|#
Dude taco trucks are the culinarary Ragnar Danneskjold-esque pirates of the pavement seas, taking business from the subsidy and regulation-laden brick and mortar restaurants.
|4.16.08 @ 11:28AM|#
The town in western Kansas I was born in is now about 80% Hispanic. For whatever reason, the immigrants can't seem to produce a decent brick and mortor restaurant. But damn can they do a great taco or tamale out of the back of a van. It is no wonder the restaurants are objecting, street venders are in many ways the high water mark of Latin American cuisine and I mean that as a complement.
Mike Laursen|4.16.08 @ 11:31AM|#
This is a good example of the kind of madness that
Libertarians ought to be worried about and could actually do some
good on.
True, but there's more to the libertarian movement than the
Libertarian Party. See the Institute for Justice website. They take
on cases like this all the time.
|4.16.08 @ 11:34AM|#
When the Demos bring the textile jobs back to New England, those
junkmen flea market entrepreneurs are going to be out
on the street. And then, they will need government-sponsored
retraining and financial support.
|4.16.08 @ 11:36AM|#
Therefore, taco trucks probably are free riders on public
parking spaces and would disappear in a libertarian
world.
Why assume that in a libertarian world of owned/rented parking,
taco trucks wouldn't be able to rent a space to do business?
Rhywun|4.16.08 @ 11:41AM|#
Improve the cuisine!
Tell me about it. One bad kebab turned me off to all street food
years ago*. People think that these trucks are there because the
neighborhood is "underserved". Nonsense. They're there to provide
dirt-cheap food. And, as always, you get what you pay for.
*Except pretzels. Hard to fuck those up.
Robert|4.16.08 @ 11:45AM|#
I came to the answer decades ago, and that would be to condo-convert the street in front of each lot, so it became part of the property.
Yeah!|4.16.08 @ 11:46AM|#
There is a public parking lot next to a Ford dealership near me.
Every morning, I park around 60 used Fords there and try to sell
them all day long. I put up a couple of flags and a banner or
two....sometimes a monkey suit...you know, whatever it takes to
make a sale.
That crank Ford dealership owner keeps complaining that it isn't
"fair." What an idiot.
Rhywun|4.16.08 @ 11:48AM|#
If flea market vendors can handle the threat of cheaper
competition, I'm sure restaurant owners can too.
However, people don't generally go sampling various restaurants
when they go out to eat.
Jennifer|4.16.08 @ 11:48AM|#
Not as much of an idiot as you, for thinking that analogy makes any sort of sense.
Jennifer|4.16.08 @ 11:49AM|#
Oops, Rhywun's last post shattered the "immediate comeback" impact of mine. How can I handle such competition?
Guy Montag|4.16.08 @ 11:51AM|#
rana,
Why do you think I used quotes around free? ;)
Jennifer, are you really Mo?
Guy Montag|4.16.08 @ 11:52AM|#
So, has anyone made a "Run For The Border" joke here
yet?
Better do it before the machine gunners are in place . . .
|4.16.08 @ 11:52AM|#
Barney: You fellas, I warned you before. Now, I'm warnin' you for the last time. You take your truck and you get outta here. You get movin', now! (they approach him) Do you see this badge? It says that I'm sworn to uphold the law. Now, that's what I mean to do and you fellas better respect it. You understand? It's just as simnple as that. (they get right in his face) You're both a lot bigger'n I am; but this badge represents a lot of people. They're a lot bigger than either one of you. Now are you gonna get movin'?
|4.16.08 @ 11:53AM|#
"There is a public parking lot next to a Ford dealership near
me. Every morning, I park around 60 used Fords there and try to
sell them all day long. I put up a couple of flags and a banner or
two....sometimes a monkey suit...you know, whatever it takes to
make a sale.
That crank Ford dealership owner keeps complaining that it isn't
"fair." What an idiot."
Actually the analogy makes perfect sense. Car dealerships spend
millions buying off state legislatures to ensure that you can't do
what you are talking about. There is no reason why I can't buy a
car from Ford.com the same way I buy a computer directly from Dell
or Gateway or set up my own used car exchange on the side. Formal
car dealerships are nothing but parasites on the economy.
Restaurants in contrast to car dealerships actually provide a
service that their competitors don't. But the principle is the
same; get the government to make it hard to do what we do so we
don't face cheap competition from bare bones operations.
Rhywun|4.16.08 @ 11:56AM|#
Oops, Rhywun's last post shattered the "immediate comeback"
impact of mine. How can I handle such competition?
I hear some of those fancy blogs have a "quote" function. What'll
they think of next??
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |4.16.08 @ 11:59AM|#
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Here's a discussion of why Bob Barr won't
have any impact.
Jennifer|4.16.08 @ 12:05PM|#
I hear some of those fancy blogs have a "quote" function.
What'll they think of next??
I'm thinking I should whine to the government--or rather, the
moderators of this board--about how unfair it is that I'm expected
to go out of MY way to make things ideal for me.
Note to Gilmore:
You were sadly, tragically and unsurprisingly wrong about Lonewacko
having found a girlfriend.
BakedPenguin|4.16.08 @ 12:06PM|#
Why won't Bob Barr have any impact? Perhaps it's because he's not a mortar shell.
Jennifer|4.16.08 @ 12:09PM|#
Why doesn't it, sweetheart?
Well, honeylamb, for starters there's the huge difference between
occupying the amount of street space taken up by one solitary taco
truck versus taking over an entire parking lot with your 60 or so
cars, which also makes it impossible for anybody else to use that
parking lot for its originally intended purpose.
If you're having trouble discerning the space differential between
"one truck" and "sixty cars," you can probably find a Mexican
willing to do the counting for you, for a very reasonable wage.
robc|4.16.08 @ 12:28PM|#
Rhywun
However, people don't generally go sampling various restaurants
when they go out to eat.
Tapas.
In a place with many tapas restaurants, like Spain, I guess.
|4.16.08 @ 12:29PM|#
There is a public parking lot next to a Ford dealership near
me. Every morning, I park around 60 used Fords there and try to
sell them all day long. I put up a couple of flags and a banner or
two....sometimes a monkey suit...you know, whatever it takes to
make a sale.
I've never seen a parking lot that didn't belong to somebody. That
"public" lot likely belongs to the city, and you can bet your ass
that the city has rules and regs for it that don't allow somebody
to monopolize it as a place of business.
If you have an agreement with the owner to use the entire lot, I
say go for it. If you don't have such an agreement, then you should
stay the hell off his property.
Assuming your use of the lot is permitted by the owner, I don't
think the Ford dealer has any more basis to complain about your
impromptu used car lot than he would about a permanent one at that
location.
robc|4.16.08 @ 12:30PM|#
Rhywun,
I didnt word it clearly, but my reponse meant:
People dont generally sample many restaurants when eating, but they
should. :)
Rhywun|4.16.08 @ 12:33PM|#
Tapas.
What is the point of providing an exceptional counter-example? My
point stands. Of course I don't own a restaurant or drive a car so
I don't care much one way or the other. Never the less it's
patently obvious why certain groups of people have a problem with
these trucks.
robc|4.16.08 @ 12:35PM|#
What is the point of providing an exceptional
counter-example?
Heh, I responded 3 minutes before your post. How's that for
anticipating a reply?
|4.16.08 @ 12:39PM|#
Some say that newly emerging businesses in a community with
more restaurants and cafes than ever are rendering mobile
restaurants obsolete -- and unwanted.
I have to ask - unwanted by whom? I understand they're unwanted by
their competitors. Hell, everybody is unwanted by their
competitors!
But one question - if they're so unwanted, how do they stay in
business?
Invisible Finger|4.16.08 @ 12:40PM|#
Why would a restaurant come in when there's 10 catering
trucks on Olympic Boulevard?
Menu variety?
Hot waitresses?
Beer and wine?
Air conditioning?
On the other hand, I'm stuck patronizing a taco truck when I want
to have a smoke with my meal.
Invisible Finger|4.16.08 @ 12:40PM|#
Truck-bound vendors don't have to pay property
taxes.
Vehicle registration IS a property tax.
|4.16.08 @ 12:49PM|#
This is a cover story, of course, for the real issue:
Truck-bound vendors don't have to pay property taxes.
Doubtful. It would be easy enough to pass a bill requiring a PILOT
in exchange for a vendor's permit.
Yeah!|4.16.08 @ 1:01PM|#
Jennifer...babydoll...We can take this from either angle. How
many cars in the parking lot would be ok? Or, conversely, what if
there were two taco trucks on the road? or three?
By the way, I love how you changed "10 catering trucks," as the
article states, to "one solitary truck" in your post. Changing
facts to meet your predetermined angle...you must be a reporter or
something.
to R C
That "public" lot likely belongs to the city, and you can bet
your ass that the city has rules and regs for it that don't allow
somebody to monopolize it as a place of business.
Insert the word "street" for "lot" in your statement. That is
exactly what this is about. The City creating rules and regulations
that don't allow somebody to monopolize a street as a place of
business.
|4.16.08 @ 1:09PM|#
I'm probably the one person here who ever worked for a local
government.
I'm just going to point out, contra Weigel, that, yes, local
government really DO dislike empty storefronts.
No, really. It's not a transparent ploy to claim that their
motivation is to encourage restaurants to located in the
neighborhood. Honest to God.
What was the line from Bailey's evolution-movie post? "No evidence
and all worldview."
|4.16.08 @ 1:15PM|#
joe, I currently work for a local government. In fact, from some
of your old posts, it seems our jobs may have been similar.
And you're right, empty storefronts are seen as a failure.
Charles|4.16.08 @ 1:24PM|#
I just want to emphasize how absurd it is that you can spend six months in jail for selling tacos out of a truck. Somebody in government thinks this is appropriate and just and believes (probably rightly) that voters don't care. We're doomed. Doomed!
|4.16.08 @ 1:27PM|#
So, what's the case FOR the government providing real estate (the street) cost-free to subsidize one set of businessmen in their competition with another set?
|4.16.08 @ 1:28PM|#
I'm just going to point out, contra Weigel, that, yes, local
government really DO dislike empty storefronts.
They should lower taxes and privatize services instead of
collecting rent for the established businesses. I just want to
point out, contra joe, that organized crime is not redeemed by
elections.
Guy Montag|4.16.08 @ 1:45PM|#
So, just why exactly are local governments all in a twist about
making double-certain-sure that peoperty owners have storefronts
operating?
Is this one of those superstitions about not letting the downtown
"die" or something?
|4.16.08 @ 1:49PM|#
So, what's the case FOR the government providing real estate
(the street) cost-free to subsidize one set of businessmen in their
competition with another set?
If you can park there for free to go to your job as a resturant
owner (a business), you should be able to park there for free to
sell taco's (another business). What's so difficult to figger
out?
One hour parking? OK. The restaurant worker/owner has to come out
and move his car every 60 minutes. The butcher, baker and
candlestick maker must as well. And all of their prospective
customers. And definitely all government employees.
|4.16.08 @ 1:55PM|#
That's an interesting proposal, Warren, for Rainbow Puppy
Island. It doesn't seem to have much to recommend it in a world
that hasn't been radically remade along libertarian lines.
J sub D,
I agree, allowing them to do business in the street, but limiting
the time, is a reasonable compromise.
Yes, Guy, "superstitions."
|4.16.08 @ 2:01PM|#
Insert the word "street" for "lot" in your
statement.
Changing the locale from a vacant lot to a public street makes a
hell of a lot of difference, Yeah!.
Try changing it in the original argument-by-analogy, and you'll see
that it sounds even more ridiculous.
The City creating rules and regulations that don't allow
somebody to monopolize a street as a place of business.
Nobody's "monopolizing a street" by parking a truck on it, you
nitwit. The taco trucks should be subject to the same rules on
parking as everyone else. See J sub D, above.
|4.16.08 @ 2:06PM|#
I though California was all uptight about emissions. Won't making all these trucks (presumably not the most fuel efficient) move constantly increase global warming? Won't someone think of Gaea?
Yeah!|4.16.08 @ 2:32PM|#
Changing the locale from a vacant lot to a public street
makes a hell of a lot of difference
IF changing the locale makes a big difference (and I'm not
convinced that it does), it makes a difference in my favor. It's
odd how you think that parking in a parking lot is "monopolizing,"
but parking in a street isn't? I thought the word "parking" in the
term "parking lot" indicates the function of the area is to "park."
Silly me.
There is a better argument to allow my scenario than to allow taco
trucks to park on the street, unmonopolizingly or otherwise.
Yeah, I just made up a word. What's it to ya?
robc|4.16.08 @ 2:41PM|#
parking meters would also work. charge the trucks and anyone
else wanting to park the same rent.
Whats the problem then?
|4.16.08 @ 3:08PM|#
Uhh, there's only so many ways you can arrange meat and a
tortilla...
Uhhh, there's only so many ways you can arrange "meat" and a
"tortilla" ...
Fixed.
|4.16.08 @ 3:10PM|#
So, just why exactly are local governments all in a twist
about making double-certain-sure that peoperty owners have
storefronts operating?
Is this one of those superstitions about not letting the downtown
"die" or something?
It's about local governments wanting more tax revenue.
thoreau|4.16.08 @ 3:34PM|#
joe-
Maybe a simple solution, one that treats this as fairly as it can
be handled given some of the differences between doing business
from a building and doing business on the street, would be to treat
food trucks in the same manner as sidewalk carts. If it's fair for
a sidewalk cart to operate on the public sidewalk in competition
with store-front businesses, it's fair for a truck to park and do
the same thing (assuming they aren't blocking traffic, yadda
yadda).
Guy Montag|4.16.08 @ 3:40PM|#
I better tell my local Morton's of Chicago that there are hotdog
venders all around Crystal City until right before they open.
Oh wait, I am in VA not CA, that would never be a problem here . .
.
Fluffy|4.16.08 @ 4:04PM|#
Actually, the real reason Yeah!'s analogy is silly is because it
would take an extraordinary amount of effort to move 60 cars into a
parking lot every morning.
If the spaces allow all-day parking, and if some nitwit wants to
try to set up some sort of fire drill to get cars into all those
spaces every morning, hey - it's his funeral. I don't really see
any problem with that.
I go along with robc and J sub D. If they want to limit parking for
all vehicles to 1 hour, that seems fair to me. If they want to
meter, that seems fair to me. But making it OK for me to leave my
car in a space for 8 hours, but a crime for a taco truck to sit
there for 2 hours, is entirely unfair. It also makes Yeah!'s
argument irrelevant, since all vehicles consume the resource of the
street space equally, based on how long they've occupied the space
- if my car is in a space for 8 hours, that "monopolizes" the space
just as much as a taco truck being there for 8 hours would.
I think this incident illustrates a problem with statism - namely,
that its advocates want to loudly proclaim that they are providing
"free" public benefits, but then get bent out of shape if anyone
actually uses those benefits in a way the statist did not
anticipate.
Statist: "Look at how noble and efficient I am! I provided free
roads, and free places for people to park!"
Taco truck driver: "Thanks, amigo! Now I have somewhere to
park!"
Statist: "Ummm...Actually, in my head when I thought this up, I
thought only little old ladies would park their Toyotas here. I
didn't think you'd park your smelly taco truck here. I'm going to
have to ask you to leave."
Interesting definitions of "free", "public", and "service" always
come up in such situations.
Ken Hagler|4.16.08 @ 5:29PM|#
"There is a public parking lot next to a Ford dealership near
me. Every morning, I park around 60 used Fords there and try to
sell them all day long. I put up a couple of flags and a banner or
two....sometimes a monkey suit...you know, whatever it takes to
make a sale."
As it happens, there was somebody running an impromptu used-car
dealership on a side street of of Wilshire (in Los Angeles) for
quite a while. The cars were parked along the side of the
road.
"Maybe a simple solution, one that treats this as fairly as it can
be handled given some of the differences between doing business
from a building and doing business on the street, would be to treat
food trucks in the same manner as sidewalk carts."
In LA the government likes to periodically persecute sidewalk carts
too.
effay|4.16.08 @ 8:03PM|#
As one of my friends put it: "If you run a restaurant and you're worrying about taco trucks, you probably need to spice your place up a bit."
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