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The Anti-Emo Pogroms
Mexican subcultures go to war:
In recent weeks, a wave of emo bashings has swept across Mexico, several news agencies have reported, fuelled by punks, rockabillies, goths, metalheads and basically anyone who's not emo.
According to Daniel Hernandez, who's been covering the anti-emo riots on his blog Intersections, the violence began March 7, when an estimated 800 young people poured into the Mexican city of Queretaro's main plaza "hunting" for emo kids to pummel. Then the following weekend similar violence occurred in Mexico City at the Glorieta de Insurgents, a central gathering space for emos. Hernandez also reports that several anti-emo riots have now also spread to various other Mexican cities. Via the Austin American Statesmen, several postings on Mexican social-networking sites, primarily organising spot for these "emo hunts," have been dug up and translated. One states: "I HATE EMOS!!! They are not even people, they are so stupid, they cry over meaningless things... My school is infested with them, I want to kill them all!"...
More recent reports state that the emos have begun to fight back against the other "urban tribes" and organised marches in Guadalajara and Mexico City, escalating the violence and leading to increased police presence.
Hat tip: Charles Oliver, who adds: "This would have made a great movie in the hands of Walter Hill around 1978." It sounds more like a joint project for Todd Haynes and Sam Peckinpah to me.
Bingo|3.27.08 @ 11:17AM|#
And the nerds??
Are the nerds neutral in this whole affair? Maybe the nerds and the
preps can mediate talks between the emos and the offended parties
and reach an agreement.
|3.27.08 @ 11:19AM|#
For the benifit of those of us who are over the age of 25 and
have lives, could someone please explain what the hell and Emo
is?
This sounds like to me that is calling for this generation's
Spanish speaking S.E. Hinton.
|3.27.08 @ 11:20AM|#
"Are the nerds neutral in this whole affair? Maybe the nerds and
the preps can mediate talks between the emos and the offended
parties and reach an agreement."
The nerds are just glad to see someone else get beatup.
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 11:20AM|#
Are Mexican punks, rockabillies, goths, metalheads and basically
anyone who's not emo going to take our domestic emo-ass-kicking
jobs?
Then again, having emo kids getting their asses kicked for less can
only be a plus.
This is also a good sign that the Mexican kids are growing up
right.
|3.27.08 @ 11:21AM|#
More recent reports state that the emos have begun to fight
back . . .
I'm stuck here. Should I be thinking "But how would you even
know?", or "But how is that even possible?"
Kolohe|3.27.08 @ 11:25AM|#
fuelled by punks, rockabillies, goths,
metalheads
Heck, I'm not so old to not know what emo is, but I thought pretty
much goth = emo.
I guess this is like one of those Judean People's Front/People's
Front of Judeah conflicts.
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 11:26AM|#
Getting your ass kicked by goths, ooh that is
sad.
Dude, they're emos. Sad is a given, and who can't kick
their ass? Your grandma? I bet she could.
|3.27.08 @ 11:26AM|#
John--
Someone who is emo is a little teenage spoiled middle class brat
who nevertheless thinks he has it the worst of anyone in the whole
world, wears black clothes and wire-framed glasses, constantly
whines, and bitches about how he'll never ever get a girlfriend
because girls are so UNFAIR! They also usually threaten to kill
themselves by cutting.
|3.27.08 @ 11:27AM|#
Heck, I'm not so old to not know what emo is, but I thought pretty much goth = emo.
Emo is a pathetic, retarded form of goth.
the innominate one|3.27.08 @ 11:27AM|#
a better title for the post would have been "go cry, emo boy"
Fluffy|3.27.08 @ 11:29AM|#
Emo kids are goth kids who never read Anne Rice and who listen
to Coldplay instead.
But seriously, Walter Hill? Isn't this more of a John Carpenter or
George Romero assignment? Maybe a shadowy group is distributing
sunglasses that, when you wear them, allow you to see that emo kids
are secretly aliens.
|3.27.08 @ 11:30AM|#
Mexico has arrived, clearly. These are the pathologies of
modernization, yeah!
The video is hilarious. One metalhead explains to a journalist "We
are not attacking the emos because we are against them...we are
attacking because they are copying our style."
|3.27.08 @ 11:33AM|#
Am I the only one having trouble picturing what a Mexican emo kid would look like?
Kolohe|3.27.08 @ 11:34AM|#
Interesting Cesar. Anthropologically, I wonder where everyone on that Mexico City ass-kicking/ass-kicked list falls into The Hierarchy.
|3.27.08 @ 11:35AM|#
I'm going to go lock myself in my room and write poetry about how my parents don't understand me
Rimfax|3.27.08 @ 11:37AM|#
I see it as more of a Sam Raimi pic, with Ted Raimi as the pathetic emo who turns to his older brother, played by Bruce Campbell, who blasts doubled-barreled justice against the zombie rockabilly armies, while incessantly insulting the emos the whole time and hooking up with the wickedly hot goth chick who feels sorry for the emos but still manages to give them the occasional kick with her 9-inch thigh-high platforms. At the end, it is set up for a sequel when a horde of furries is seen hopping, crawling, and sleezing into town.
|3.27.08 @ 11:37AM|#
So what we see here is that NAFTA has allowed for the shipping
off of our youth subcultures to Mexico. That "sucking" sound you
here is an "emo" band.
I wouldn't say "emo" and "goth" (formerly deathrocker in the past)
are the same. There is less make up in "emo". As far as "nerds" I
think they make up a large percentage of both "emo" and "goth" the
difference probably being the playing of D&D. Sort of nerds
with style. I didn't say good style but a style.
Just for the reocrd "emo" used to mean "emo-core" which was created
out of the hardcore style when it shifted from lyrics about Reagan
to lyrics about chicks and the associated miseries there in. I
reference Rights of Spring and Marginal Man as early "emo-core"
bands.
Anyway, the kids all suck.
*bitterwashedupthirdraterockstar
|3.27.08 @ 11:37AM|#
It is amazing how the kids never change just the labels. In the 1980s the Cesar describes listened to Morrisey and the Cure and didn't really call themselves anything (this was the days before Ann Rice and Goth). At least they have a name now.
Fluffy|3.27.08 @ 11:39AM|#
Speaking of furries, shouldn't there have been a major furry scandal by now? Like the Spitzer scandal, only with the story being "Politician X revealed to be a furry"? Every other vice has already been done.
|3.27.08 @ 11:39AM|#
Tim,
I actually remember the emocore bands in the 80s. I didn't know it
was associated with such a loser subculture. Can't I am surprised
though. I always considered emocore music for musicians who weren't
cool enough to be The Replacements or Husker Du.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.27.08 @ 11:40AM|#
S.E. Hinton
My son loves Rumblefish and the Outsiders. And they are ancient,
tattered, yellowed, bent up, paperback copies with Coke and jelly
stains on half the pages.
|3.27.08 @ 11:41AM|#
"I'm having a more trouble picturing a Mexican preppy."
Mexico has more than its share of rich elites and their spoiled
children. Imagine a more swarthy version of the Andrew McCarthy
character in any 1980s teen movie or better yet the two Mexican
teenagers who end up going gay for each other in Yu Mia Tambien or
whatever it was.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.27.08 @ 11:45AM|#
Shallow me. I thought those guys all hung out on street corners
with switchblades and baggie pants swilling down Mexican Coke (made
with sugar) out of beater glass bottles that they broke the neck
off of by bashing it against the iron burglar bars to show how
tough they are.
Then I find out that there's Mexican Rockabillies. Go figure.
|3.27.08 @ 11:46AM|#
Emus can run really fast, so it's hard to believe they get their asses kicked very much. And when they put their heads in the sand, you can't see them.
|3.27.08 @ 11:46AM|#
John-
Their music is much worse than that now. Between Emo music, "cash
money" style rap, and American Idol knock-offs non-satellite radio
is totally unlistenable.
|3.27.08 @ 11:52AM|#
Cesar,
The Cure was a great band. It is not their fault all of their fans
were losers. The Smiths weren't that bad either. Come a band that
actually has a song called "Girlfriend in a Coma" deserves some
humor points if nothing else.
I did see on the Wiki entry for emos that Jimmy Eat World and
Dashboard Confessional are considered Emo bands and both of those
bands suck with a capital S. Something tells me Bare Naked Ladies
is or was big in the Emo scene as well.
|3.27.08 @ 11:54AM|#
John-
Other emo bands: Linkin Park, Wheezer, Three Doors Down. Horrible,
horrible stuff. Its enough to make one miss hair metal.
|3.27.08 @ 11:56AM|#
The Hierachy map is pretty funny. I always had a special disdain for Roleplaying gamers, and know I know why.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.27.08 @ 11:59AM|#
Hey, Cesar, Three Doors Down can't possibly be an Emo band, shit dude, they're Southern Rockers and even toured with Skynyrd. Besides that, I like them, proof enough they ain't Emo. So bite me, man. :-)
shecky|3.27.08 @ 11:59AM|#
Believe it or not, Mexico has a pretty large middle class
capable of sustaining a number of it's own little subcultures. Just
like the US.
I'm more sympathetic to
this story
of Latin American youth culture.
I find it quite encouraging, and somewhat amusing, that North
American media may be finding more reason to wring their hands over
the trends of kids these days. In other countries. Moralizers see
them ad wonder what the world is coming to. I see them and rejoice
that these countries enjoy so much prosperity as to allow such
subcultures to even exist.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.27.08 @ 12:02PM|#
So I look up American Idol contestant Danny Norriega cuz I
figure, hey, maybe he's one of them Emo's. And sure enough, he is.
Right there in the comments below the idiot girls leaving their
email addresses on a public website, is a comment from somebody who
says:
Hes a fucking QUEER little EMO fuck that needs to get voted off
then stabbed
Nice.
|3.27.08 @ 12:02PM|#
I'm a video gamer but could never ever stand Pokemon or MMORPGS. First of all, both require zero skill to play well. Second of all, the way you DO get better at them is to spend more money and time. Thirdly, you can never beat them. Its a genre designed totally for the purpose of milking as much money out of people as possible.
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 12:02PM|#
Cesar: I went to high school with Rivers Cuomo of Weezer. In
high school, he was in a hair metal band called Avant Garde.
I still have one of their albums on audio tape. I'm keeping it for
blackmail purposes.
|3.27.08 @ 12:04PM|#
I wish he would've stayed with the hair metal. Hair metal is ridiculous but still hair metal>emo.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.27.08 @ 12:06PM|#
John, thanks.
And another thing Jesse Walker. Now, I think in prejudices. Last
week I thought Danny Norriega was just an odd kid with weird hair.
Now, you've fixed it so I put him in the Emo box.
It's people like you what cause unrest in this world.
:-)
|3.27.08 @ 12:07PM|#
Mexican goth?
How do they pull off the pasty-skinned death-warmed-over-look with
that kind of tan?
|3.27.08 @ 12:11PM|#
Fluffy | March 27, 2008, 11:39am | #
Speaking of furries, shouldn't there have been a major furry
scandal by now? Like the Spitzer scandal, only with the story being
"Politician X revealed to be a furry"? Every other vice has already
been done.
Stay tuned, next week Paterson will be revealing something else
from his closet, and furries are as good a bet as any. My money is
on his fondness for showtunes.
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 12:16PM|#
Ha ha ha, Wikipedia is amazing.
Cesar, I give you Avant
Garde.
I think I have the first one. One of only 100!
ed|3.27.08 @ 12:17PM|#
I quit trying to keep up with pop music's ever-splintering sub-categories and genre-splicing when I discoved that "shoegazer" had itself many sub-categories. "Emo"? I have no idea, but I'd guess they complain a lot and wear silly clothes.
|3.27.08 @ 12:19PM|#
Heck, I'm not so old to not know what emo is, but I thought
pretty much goth = emo.
The weird things is that i thought emo = punk, rockabillies, goth,
and metal.
Well ok metal not so much...i always thought metalheads were pretty
much emo but with really bad taste in music.
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 12:20PM|#
Epi, I'm honestly shocked his first band wasn't a grunge
knock-off band.
No grunge in 1987, Cesar. At least not outside of Seattle.
|3.27.08 @ 12:21PM|#
No grunge in 1987, Cesar. At least not outside of Seattle.
True. Forgot to look at the years.
vault_dog4|3.27.08 @ 12:24PM|#
Emo isn't the same as goth. Emo is goth for pussies.
Is it wrong to feel good about this culture war??
|3.27.08 @ 12:28PM|#
No grunge in 1987, Cesar. At least not outside of
Seattle.
Sub-Pop Records was king!
|3.27.08 @ 12:30PM|#
Emo is goth for pussies.
Huh?
This is a puzzle isn't it cuz i am having hard time imagining a
goth who is not a pussy.
In fact i am having a REALLY hard time imagining any music nerd
type as not being a huge pussy
|3.27.08 @ 12:31PM|#
In that video, Hinson actually did riffs that are 99% better than what most rock bands have done in the last seven years.
T|3.27.08 @ 12:31PM|#
In the 1980s the Cesar describes listened to Morrisey and
the Cure and didn't really call themselves anything (this was the
days before Ann Rice and Goth)
Goth existed in the 80s before Anne Rice. Just ask Siouxsie.
Rhywun|3.27.08 @ 12:33PM|#
Just for the reocrd "emo" used to mean "emo-core"
I always thought emo was Sunny Day Real Estate, Jets to Brazil and
the like. I hate the fact that a sort-of "label" for bands I really
like gets applied to a really annoying youth subculture instead.
Actually I hate musical labels being appropriated by youth
cultures, period.
PS. Mexican goth *music* rocks. Check out Hocico and Amduscia.
|3.27.08 @ 12:33PM|#
In that video, Hinson actually did riffs that are 99% better
than what most rock bands have done in the last seven
years.
He is strangely badass, I agree.
|3.27.08 @ 12:34PM|#
No way, this is a project for Godley and Creme:
sort of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFtfSpn7PNU
meets this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1Z8pSXCNFI
Casting call?
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 12:34PM|#
Actually, the term "emo" has been applied to various styles of
music during their relevant periods.
It used to be applied to sad songs that were strummed very slowly,
or Fugazzi style punk.
Now it seems to refer to these pseudo-goth radio bands like "My
Chemical Romance," and "Panic At The Disco."
It's really nothing new. However, it is important to remember that
this wasn't always how the term was used.
Anyway, is it me, or does Mexico have a shit load of more important
issues to worry about?
|3.27.08 @ 12:36PM|#
Anyway, is it me, or does Mexico have a shit load of more important issues to worry about?
Hell, doesn't the United States?
Bingo|3.27.08 @ 12:36PM|#
ed: It is ridiculous. The general rule is that there is a direct
correlation between how retarded the genre name is, the crappiness
of the music itself, and how snobby the people are that listen to
it.
example: Twee
|3.27.08 @ 12:40PM|#
John:
Not knowing what an emo is doesn't out you as "over 25 and with a
life." It outs you as at least 40, maybe 45, and completely unaware
of the vast world of internet humor.
Rhywun|3.27.08 @ 12:40PM|#
example: Twee
Ha, I like some of that too. I guess that makes me a fa...
Oh.
Fucking labels. I hate 'em.
|3.27.08 @ 12:40PM|#
Does anyone else blame the decline in rock music in the lats 12 years or so to lack of drugs being taken by song writers now?
NoStar|3.27.08 @ 12:41PM|#
I conjured up an image of bratty kids slathered in imitation sour cream. But then I remembered thats Imo.
Bingo|3.27.08 @ 12:44PM|#
Cesar:
You are out of your mind. The last 12 years have been awesome for
rock music. The 90s was probably a low point for the genre as
grunge and post-grunge knockoffs dominated the radio waves.
Do some research, there are so many talented bands out there from
the myriad of genres that have splintered.
MattXIV|3.27.08 @ 12:46PM|#
If nothing else, think of the quantities of bad poetry beating
up this many emo kids is going to produce. Have they no respect for
their langauge?
And for reference, since there's some confusion about what it is
musically, emo is a punk subgenre of relatively down-tempo,
too-earnest songs about how depressing it is not getting
laid.
Some representative examples:
The Get-Up
Kids
Saves
The Day
Rhywun|3.27.08 @ 12:46PM|#
It used to be applied to sad songs that were strummed very
slowly, or Fugazzi style punk.
To me the defining quality of "emo" was a lot of switches between
"loud" and "quiet" plus less "screaming" and more "emotion". Now it
just means "sucky". Pity.
|3.27.08 @ 12:46PM|#
Bingo:
I haven't noticed it on radio. Its been dominated by emo and shitty
pop punk Blink 182 knock-offs.
Bingo|3.27.08 @ 12:50PM|#
Cesar:
That's your problem. I haven't listened to the radio in over 3
years. Some great ways to find new bands is (horribly enough)
myspace, last.fm, youtube, and
wikipedia.
Start with one band you like and find other artists in the genre.
Last.fm is a really useful utility that will make band
recommendations based on what you listen to. There is no reason to
listen to the whatever the ClearChannel monopoly decides it wants
you to hear.
|3.27.08 @ 12:51PM|#
Bing:
I'll check out those sites, but I'll tell you I got satellite radio
three months ago and its great, much much better than clear channel
horseshit. Its like the cable TV of radio, you can find
anything.
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 12:52PM|#
That's what I don't understand. This bizarre attack on emo kids
is simply going to make them even more emo.
Before we all have too much fun hitting the pinata (I had to) that
is the emo community, we need to remember that this is another
hideous example of the inherent evil of mob mentality.
|3.27.08 @ 12:54PM|#
If nothing else, think of the quantities of bad poetry
beating up this many emo kids is going to produce. Have they no
respect for their langauge?
Representative sample of bad emo poetry: "I fell so hard for you I
broke both my legs."
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 12:54PM|#
Some great ways to find new bands is (horribly enough)
myspace, last.fm, youtube, and wikipedia.
What about Pandora?
You list what you like and it creates playlists for you of bands
and songs that are similar, so you branch off your own likes into
unknown stuff. My cousins swear by it.
|3.27.08 @ 12:55PM|#
Emo Tae-Bo: a years-long phase of sashaying the Whining Waltz,
airing a steady steaming stream of sure-to-be-noticed Useless
Introspections and Traumotional Affidavits tailored to gallantly
shore up one's Emotional Tackle.
Alas, even Self-Referential SulkFests get old and the vicissitudes
of Façade Fatigue finally set in, forcing our player to seek out a
new front.
|3.27.08 @ 12:56PM|#
Emo as a lifestyle has always seemed to me to come in three
loosely-defined divisions:
1. The larval state of Williamsburg hipster-creatures. Think
vintage T-shirts and buying shoes on eBay. Teen emos enter the pupa
in college, and then blossom into the horn-rimmed beglassed assbags
who complain about the gentrification of Brooklyn and how crowded
the L train is.
2. Pre-gay: not quite ready to come out the closet, but the knob on
the door is turning. These are actually the least reprehensible of
the breed. They are actually just trying to blend in with...
3. Emo as a sub-set of meterosexuality. It's the boys who play at
being sensitive and pro-feminist in order to date feminists and
other politically charged girls. (Not a bad strategy; putting-out
is often a political act.) They go to FGM documentaries and Take
Back The Night Rallies. (These are the worst, they have a tendency
to prey on girls who weren't considered attractive in high school,
and who bloomed in college. In my opinion, the best kind of
girl...)
It's important to remember, though, almost one actually calls
themselves an emo band or refers to themselves as emo. It's really
mostly an insult.
Emo also has uncomfortable links to the straight-edge movement
through 7 Seconds
and Nation
of Ulysses.
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 12:57PM|#
Yeah, unless you have satellite radio, very little good ever
comes of listening to the ever revolving hip hop playlist on your
standard stations.
Another good place to find new music is MTV2's Subterranean, and
also searching for your favorite bands via Amazon, and then seeing
what others recommend. I have found numerous bands that way.
With the Internet, there really is no excuse for being held hostage
by Top 40 radio.
When I hear people say that no one is writing good music anymore, I
first think that they've essentially become their parents, or I
think that they're simply comfortable being dissatisfied.
There's a lot of great music out there if you're a sincere music
fan.
|3.27.08 @ 12:58PM|#
Cesar,
You could also tap the amazing power of the Reason boards, and ask
us. List the top 25 most played songs on your iPod and we can take
a crack at it. (Or 10 or 15 of your favorite bands.)
Sadly, though, I think musical taste is the most subjective of
opinions.
|3.27.08 @ 1:00PM|#
I know theres good stuff underground, but part of me WANTS the top 40 to at least have good stuff in it (it has before, after all). I don't know if thats ever possible again though.
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 1:03PM|#
Arguing relentlessly about any artistic endeavor is subjective,
and ultimately futile. That's why I tend to despise music
journalism (the lowest form). It's like arguing which is the best
color.
Only food connoisseurs rank beneath them. Taste is the most
subjective of the senses.
|3.27.08 @ 1:04PM|#
Emo-Affiliates have de-emphasized traditional attention-mongering in Hipster Outreach; they're solely concerned with assembling a winning coalition of 'The Globally Concerned.' Sadly, they will find that attitude very hard to shift, in witness whereof we can see how the top figures in the scene have cold-shouldered any questioning of motives. Is this shot in the foot merely a case of the 'Dummies' or are these unwitting self-parodies designed from the start to fail?
Bingo|3.27.08 @ 1:05PM|#
What about Pandora?
Pandora is great, sometimes. I think their analysis algorithm is
way off for some genres though. Also, after listening to about 12
songs everything tends to devolve into post-grunge, pop-punk, or
some insipid neutered indie rock.
vault_dog4|3.27.08 @ 1:06PM|#
This is a puzzle isn't it cuz i am having hard time
imagining a goth who is not a pussy.
In fact i am having a REALLY hard time imagining any music nerd
type as not being a huge pussy
I will concede the point!
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 1:08PM|#
You could also tap the amazing power of the Reason boards,
and ask us.
Hanzel und Gretyl,
yeah! But that's not for everyone. Try the earlier stuff first if
you can get it. Much more diverse. Wikipeda entry here.
|3.27.08 @ 1:11PM|#
Sugerfree,
Unless by pray you mean rape, what is wrong with number 3? Those
guys can't compete with the jocks and the frat boys of the world so
they change the rules and market themsleves to the right niche.
What is wrong with that? I couldn't pull it off but good for them
for being able to.
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 1:12PM|#
"In fact i am having a REALLY hard time imagining any music nerd
type as not being a huge pussy"
You're more than welcome to test that theory, son.
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 1:14PM|#
"Unless by pray you mean rape, what is wrong with number 3?
Those guys can't compete with the jocks and the frat boys of the
world so they change the rules and market themsleves to the right
niche. What is wrong with that?"
Good point. This is pretty much how the world works, period. From
politics, to fashion modeling, it's all about context.
|3.27.08 @ 1:14PM|#
Wow, being an emo in the Land of Machismo. That's gotta
suck.
Guess Conor Oberst isn't going to be doing Mexican shows anytime
soon...
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 1:20PM|#
Bright Eyes. Perfect example of emo. However, Conor has written
some great songs.
I also find it a bit ironic that metal heads have issues with emo
kids. They're essentially the same thing.
In fact, I would say that Metal Heads are the most emo of the lot.
Korn, anyone?
Anyway, would it be considered inappropriate to remind everyone
that The Smiths were the greatest pop group of all time? With the
description of emo slowly morphing into "anything you want it to
be" I'm sure that there are some who would love to slot them as
emo.
|3.27.08 @ 1:21PM|#
Moritmor,
Bright Eyes definitely goes into the most gay name for a rock band
hall of fame.
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 1:25PM|#
Oh no, there have been worse: "Orchestral Maneuvers In The
Dark," and "Spandeau Ballet."
Fuck it, "Boy George" brings home the trophy.
|3.27.08 @ 1:34PM|#
Nothing like starting violence based on vanity to show how macho you are. I mean, if we can't beat each other up over our clothing choices, what can we beat each other up for?
|3.27.08 @ 1:37PM|#
John,
I think it's a fine strategy, but they have built their whole life
on a lie, so when the women see through it they become suspicious
of all men. We loose them to feminism and/or Hagen-Daas.
It's a tragedy of the commons. They never pay for the externalities
of their "pollution," the larger community has to.
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 1:40PM|#
Am I the only one that finds this surge of violence to be somewhat "emo" in its expression?
|3.27.08 @ 1:41PM|#
"emo is a punk subgenre of relatively down-tempo, too-earnest
songs about how depressing it is not getting laid."
Like Janis Ian then?
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 1:44PM|#
I mean, if we can't beat each other up over our clothing
choices, what can we beat each other up for?
Haircut choices?
alan|3.27.08 @ 1:44PM|#
Blink 182 -- I hate that dude's voice with a passion. Drink whiskey, start smoking, anything to get your balls to drop, stoopid Blink 182 singer.
Robert|3.27.08 @ 1:46PM|#
emo is a punk subgenre of relatively down-tempo, too-earnest songs about how depressing it is not getting laid.
Is that more, or less depressing than Jandek's?
Looks like I wasn't the only one to confuse it with Emo Philips.
Must be short for emotional.
alan|3.27.08 @ 1:46PM|#
Oh no, there have been worse: "Orchestral Maneuvers In The
Dark," and "Spandeau Ballet."
Fuck it, "Boy George" brings home the trophy.
Even better than that:
Bronski's Beat
|3.27.08 @ 1:47PM|#
Alan--
How about he takes up a drug habit to improve his song writing
abilities?
As Bill Hicks said, if you hate drugs then just go home, burn all
your best old albums, and start listening to New Kid on the
Block.
|3.27.08 @ 1:47PM|#
"Other emo bands: Linkin Park, Wheezer, Three Doors Down.
Horrible, horrible stuff. Its enough to make one miss hair
metal."
Weezer is not emo. The early stuff had some sad lyrics, that stupid
emo kids though spoke directly to them, and now they cite Weezer as
an influence. But Weezer is not emo.
|3.27.08 @ 1:51PM|#
Most Mexican music seems to be pretty tragic and sad - they have
a penchant for "cortando las venas". Even the fairly modern pop
singers like Alejandro Fernandez (who I like!)
And Goth seems a natural for the folks who celebrate "Dia de los
Muertos" (Day of the Dead)taking the family out for a picnic in the
cemetary.
alan|3.27.08 @ 1:51PM|#
I agree Cesar. What is with kids these days? Even singers want
to be the girl's 'best friend' with the strangely emphatic sing
song effeminate voice, instead of a husky sounding Jim Morrison
fucking everything that moves.
What is wrong with kids these days.
|3.27.08 @ 1:53PM|#
Alan-
You know why rap/hip hop is so popular now? Because rock 'n roll
has been castrated and femminized.
GILMORE|3.27.08 @ 1:55PM|#
mexican Quadrophrenia
it was bound to happen sooner or later.
Put $50 down on the metalheads for me, with the rockabilly's to
place.
alan|3.27.08 @ 1:56PM|#
You know why rap/hip hop is so popular now? Because rock 'n roll
has been castrated and femminized.
I saw that happening in the 80's when I was still a kid. I must
confess I had my own Public Enemy phase though I'm basically a
metal head.
GILMORE|3.27.08 @ 1:57PM|#
Emo as a lifestyle has always seemed to me to come in three
loosely-defined divisions:
1. The larval state of Williamsburg hipster-creatures. Think
vintage T-shirts and buying shoes on eBay. Teen emos enter the pupa
in college, and then blossom into the horn-rimmed beglassed assbags
who complain about the gentrification of Brooklyn and how crowded
the L train is.
But those kids like to do lots of coke and dance to
'Electroclash'.
There aint no emo up in this hood missy. Now run along!
|3.27.08 @ 1:58PM|#
Alan rap in the late 80s/early 90s had some great stuff. Now its just about cars, gold, and strippers. In other words, its become the black version of hair metal. Too bad.
|3.27.08 @ 1:58PM|#
In fact, I would say that Metal Heads are the most emo of
the lot. Korn, anyone?
Korn is only metal in the most attenuated sense of the term.
Somehow, I doubt that Slayer and Morbid Angel are really trying to
get in touch with their inner feelings...
But your larger point is true--there has been a lot of "life sucks"
sentiment in metal from the day that Black Sabbath started making
eardrums bleed in 1969. And that's not entirely removed from the
emo point of view.
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 1:58PM|#
"Even better than that:
Bronski's Beat"
Check Mate: Pet Shop Boys
I'm beginning to think that this is a game without a winner.
Also, many Mexican, and Mexican Americans have a fetish for
Morrissey. While Morrissey has not produced music that can
necessarily be categorized as either "emo," or "goth" he certainly
plays into the romantic troubadour popular in the Mexican
imagination.
Of course, all of this makes the emo hunt even more bizarre than it
already is. But hey, if you have rockabilly kids getting involved,
then clearly a line has been crossed.
The Latino rockabilly nuts that proliferate Morrissey concerts in
Southern California are rife with assholes.
|3.27.08 @ 1:59PM|#
Korn is an abortion.
Do not disgrace the legacy of metal by uttering their name in
association.
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 2:01PM|#
But those kids like to do lots of coke and dance to
'Electroclash'.
There aint no emo up in this hood missy. Now run along!
People who are too poor to live in Manhattan shouldn't waste their
money on blow. And sorry, dude, but the saturation of emo and mod
in that area is appalling.
|3.27.08 @ 2:02PM|#
GILMORE,
I'm suggesting emo grows up to become that. The common
thread? Gas station attendant shirts.
alan|3.27.08 @ 2:02PM|#
It will take a nation of millions to keep this somewhat, er,
almost, but not quite, white guy down (authenticity in collective
identity has always been something of a joke to me).
An aunt of mine on my dad's side married into the Mexican
oligarchy. All of her boys (three of them) were Metalheads who grew
up in Mexico City, so Mexican goths and rockabillies come as a
surprise to me as well.
|3.27.08 @ 2:04PM|#
"But your larger point is true--there has been a lot of "life
sucks" sentiment in metal from the day that Black Sabbath started
making eardrums bleed in 1969. And that's not entirely removed from
the emo point of view."
As a former white middle class metal head I take issue with that.
Yeah, there was some real downer stuff about it, but that didn't
cause people to sit around and feel sorry for themselves and act
deep. It caused people to go out and vandalize things and get into
fist fights and take copious amounts of alchohol and drugs and do
all sorts of decidedly non-emo things.
And for the record Korn is one of the worst bands of the last 30
years. They go in the same ring of the hall of suck that holds Limp
Bizkit and Linken Park.
|3.27.08 @ 2:05PM|#
Bingo,
See line above.
(Seriously, what a fucking retarded genre both in name and
music..."nu-metal"...Jeebus)
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 2:05PM|#
"Alan rap in the late 80s/early 90s had some great stuff. Now
its just about cars, gold, and strippers. In other words, its
become the black version of hair metal. Too bad."
The problem with rap is that its grandiose materialism doesn't
leave much room for an alternative rap scene.
Of course, there are rap groups that do produce what one would
consider "alternative" material, but outside of popular artists
like Outkast, in the rap industry you either let the record company
doll you up, and do with you as they please, or you go the fuck
home.
Although, I like the hair band analogy.
|3.27.08 @ 2:07PM|#
"An aunt of mine on my dad's side married into the Mexican
oligarchy. All of her boys (three of them) were Metalheads who grew
up in Mexico City, so Mexican goths and rockabillies come as a
surprise to me as well."
A few years ago I saw ACDC in San Antonio. They sold out 20,000 at
the Alamo dome and it was mostly Mexicans. Mexicans love their
heavy metal. People forget that Tejano music is basically Mexican
hillbilly music. Mexicans from the city have no use for it. Metal
concerts were always a big deal in San Antonio and it wasn't just
the white people who were going.
alan|3.27.08 @ 2:08PM|#
For a pop metal band, I have a soft spot for Incubus. They seem to be focused on creating listen-able music, more so than some other abominations from the SoCal metal scene.
|3.27.08 @ 2:09PM|#
I like the hair band analogy to rap. Rap is basically where heavy metal was in about 1989, totally prepackaged and marketed to focus group white kids. It can't go on like this forever, something has to give.
|3.27.08 @ 2:10PM|#
Yeah, Incubus was alright and had some good guitar work--very
rare these days in mainstream bands.
Famous-
If my hair band analogy holds then maybe there will be a
stripped-down "grunge" rap or something in a few years.
|3.27.08 @ 2:10PM|#
Incubus is not bad. They can actually play and sing in tune and have some listenable songs. I don't know if you would call them punk or metal but I have always liked the Off Spring. They are one of the few bands who can pull off being funny without being a parody band.
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 2:10PM|#
Singing about how life sucks has been a pretty wide, and common
theme throughout music history. Technically speaking, the blues was
the first emo style, and the basis for popular music.
How about the Ronettes with "I Wish I Never Saw The Sunshine."
|3.27.08 @ 2:10PM|#
Hoy BRUJERIZMO pa tí satanismo!
Fé en lo viejo te está chingando
Virus de cristo te está fallando
Infesta gente jodiendo mentes
El organismo del Anti-Cristo!
BRUJERIZMO oscuro hallo
Desde niño Satanismo!
Contra todo Hoy BRUJERIZMO pa tí satanismo!
BRUJERIZMO! Cura joto
Cristo fallo!
Satanismo desde niño
Hoy BRUJERIZMO pa tí satanismo!
Si no cambian las leyes que mandan
Ya esta listo para negativo
Maquinas de hoy son como gente
Programados contra todo
|3.27.08 @ 2:12PM|#
Epi,
I have a group of college friends that went to New York and tried
to hack it in Manhattan, and end up moving to hipster Brooklyn.
They all work in Manhattan but it's as if it will kill them to have
a fucking beer with me unless we jam arm-pit to asshole on the L
train for 45 minutes and have it in Brooklyn.
I like to needle my friends with:
"When little kids dream of one day living in New York, they are
thinking about Manhattan, not the boroughs. You want to move to
Metropolis, not Gotham."
They always reek of sour grapes when I visit.
|3.27.08 @ 2:14PM|#
The first time I heard rap, I gave it six months, tops. I wish I had been even remotely right.
Nick_M|3.27.08 @ 2:14PM|#
Someone above already commented that beating up emos just makes
them more emo.
Which makes me wonder, has Mexico learned nothing from our War On
Terror?
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 2:16PM|#
NutraSweet, all my Brooklyn friends were born-and-raised
Brooklynites, so thay had their anti-Manhattan reflexes, but one
expected them.
I could not have lived in the boroughs, and I find them annoying to
this day. Manhattan only, baby.
highnumber|3.27.08 @ 2:16PM|#
Weezer is not emo.
Correct. It's power pop. I have one of their albums,
Maladroit. It's pretty good. Makes me hungry for
lamb.
Most Mexican music seems to be pretty tragic and
sad...
¿Cómo? To my ears, Mexican music as a whole presents the same
spectrum of emotions as American music. There's some really good
rock en español out there if you have a look. Hell, some of you
prog fans might even like some of Cafe Tacvba's stuff. Not to
mention that some of you punk or ska fans might get into Cafe
Tacvba. And if you Beatles fans have never heard Cafe Tacvba, you
should check them out. And we can't forget Cafe Tacvba for the rap
and metal fans.
Seriously, Cafe Tacvba busts more genres than Fishbone, the Clash,
the Beatles, Miles Davis, and Herbie Hancock combined.
And they are always good.
Check 'em out here.
|3.27.08 @ 2:17PM|#
As a former white middle class metal head I take issue with
that. Yeah, there was some real downer stuff about it, but that
didn't cause people to sit around and feel sorry for themselves and
act deep. It caused people to go out and vandalize things and get
into fist fights and take copious amounts of alchohol and drugs and
do all sorts of decidedly non-emo things.
That's a good point, but I think the emotional underpinnings are
related, and I was also a teenaged metalhead. Of course, I became a
metal guitarist rather than a drummer, so my thing was to sit in my
room for hours on end practicing scales, rather than live the
Viking barbarian life of a metal drummer or singer.
Singing about how life sucks has been a pretty wide, and common
theme throughout music history. Technically speaking, the blues was
the first emo style, and the basis for popular music.
Bingo! But at least blues, metal and punk musicians manage to have
a sense of humor and perspective about the general suckitude of the
world. Emo kids cut themselves, instead...
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 2:20PM|#
"If my hair band analogy holds then maybe there will be a
stripped-down "grunge" rap or something in a few years."
*Fingers Crossed*
Although, you just reminded me that grunge pretty much set the
stage for the current evolution into what we now consider modern
emo.
I hated Nirvana, and still do. I remember watching them as they
debuted on 120 Minutes, and thinking, "So?" Of course, within
months, you would think that rock music had just been invented the
way they took off.
It reminds me of when Radiohead started to become popular with Kid
A (in the bat shit crazy, mainstream sense).
Suddenly frat guys discovered that the avant garde actually
existed, and thought that the laws of the universe had fallen
apart, when it seemed like nothing more than Zappa-esque bullshit
to me.
Sorry, I see Zappa as a wasted talent. His lyrics were about as
meaningful to me as pulling names from a hat, which is how Thom
Yorke wrote the lyrics for Kid A.
GILMORE|3.27.08 @ 2:21PM|#
Episiarch | March 27, 2008, 2:01pm | #
People who are too poor to live in Manhattan...
Uh. $2000 for a 1 bedroom is for poor folk?
Maybe you're talking montrose, but down in my neck (Bedford) it's
all rich fashionistas and couples and, yes, the daily parade of
hipster trash.
I dont know why people would bitch about this place. The quality of
life is better than manhattan and it's faster to/from here to most
places in the city than say, the Upper West. Or York? :) eh?
eh?
I mean christ, if you can find a hood where's there's NOTHING to
bitch about, then more power to you.
|3.27.08 @ 2:21PM|#
Highnumber,
Cafe Tacuba is good, but it's a matter of taste. For me, its Maná
anytime... And they are sooo far removed from anything
"emo-like".
|3.27.08 @ 2:22PM|#
ChrisO,
Lack of a sense of humor is one of the more annoying things about a
band or a cultural movement. The worst example of this is hippies.
Hippies have no sense of humor and don't even understand humor when
it was presented them. I heard George Harrison say one of the
things that most frustraited him while he was a Beatle was that no
one ever got the jokes. The Beatles considered themselves to be a
really funny band and were constantly joking in their songs but the
brain dead hippies never got it and instead were trying to figure
out the deeper meaning in all of it. Goths and apparently Emos are
the same way.
Bingo|3.27.08 @ 2:22PM|#
Good point ChrisO. The difference is that other genres singing about the suckage of the world are either humorous, nihilistic, or angry. Emo is saying "my life sucks, pay attention to me!" It's all very self-centered. Also the singing and music itself is annoying.
|3.27.08 @ 2:23PM|#
I actually liked grunge but I see how it went into emo. It had
angsty-lyrics too but they didn't fucking WHINE about it. I think
emo is kind of grunge gone bad. Its gone too far in the other
direction, and it'd be nice to see rock bands sing about getting
drunk and laid again, but that sets the stage for another-hair
metal type thing eventually.
It all goes in cycles....
|3.27.08 @ 2:23PM|#
highnumber,
I agree on Weezer. They fit much more closely with Fountains of
Wayne and other power pop outfits. If you like retro/power pop, FOW
is great. I even if you hated "Stacy's Mom," try the first album.
"Radiation Vibe" is one of the best pop singles of the last 20
years. (Keeping in mind I'm using "pop" in the genre sense, not the
Top 40 sense.)
GILMORE|3.27.08 @ 2:24PM|#
SugarFree | March 27, 2008, 2:02pm | #
GILMORE,
I'm suggesting emo grows up to become that. The common thread? Gas
station attendant shirts.
Fair enough.
And Epi...
You need to get out more. I suggest we all hook up at the Long
Island city Water Taxi Beach sometime in spring. Then do dinner at
the crab joint behind there. Then you can take a nice boat ride
back your ('non annoying'? *manhattan*??) idyllic land of communal
perfection.
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 2:25PM|#
"Bingo! But at least blues, metal and punk musicians manage to
have a sense of humor and perspective about the general suckitude
of the world. Emo kids cut themselves, instead..."
Exactly, and it's that self-deprecating humor that seems to be
absent from much of the emo scene.
If you are able to balance the subject through crafty lyrics, then
people will be tolerant of your more dour moments. Rockabilly was
often like that. It could be heartfelt, yet playful in swift
turns.
The minute you start taking yourself too seriously, a backlash is
inevitable.
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 2:28PM|#
The quality of life is better than manhattan and it's faster
to/from here to most places in the city than say, the Upper West.
Or York? :) eh? eh?
I mean christ, if you can find a hood where's there's NOTHING to
bitch about, then more power to you.
Faster? Not if you take a taxi or black car everywhere ;-)
Manhattan is for the people who...want to be in Manhattan. At
least, that's the way it was for me.
alan|3.27.08 @ 2:29PM|#
Bingo! But at least blues, metal and punk musicians manage
to have a sense of humor and perspective about the general
suckitude of the world. Emo kids cut themselves,
instead...
Nothing is more fake than sincerity, Nothing is more phoney than
authenticity.
You nailed it, that is exactly why the best punk and metal and rock
music works. Truth is just a tongue in the cheek away. Are you
listening Obama?
|3.27.08 @ 2:30PM|#
I think music is ready for the return of the three cord pop song. Get rock back to sex drugs and having a good time and producing short songs that have a good pop hook similiar to what the better punk bands did in the 1970s. Too much of music today is fake rap, R&B which is really just music for sensibilities 14 year old black girls, and Wussy white nerd rock.
|3.27.08 @ 2:32PM|#
The minute you start taking yourself too seriously, a
backlash is inevitable.
One of the greatest moments of Behind the Music was
Warrant boo-hooing that Nevermind hit big on MTV and
killed the momentum for their third album. "Oh, no! We'll never
have that big follow-up to 'Cherry Pie!'"
Bingo|3.27.08 @ 2:32PM|#
Cesar: Emo is not derived from grunge. It's a sub-genre of
punk/hardcore.
Grunge gave birth to post-grunge and nu-metal.
Bingo|3.27.08 @ 2:33PM|#
I'm beginning to think this discussion was a trap to out the hipster cosmotarians.
|3.27.08 @ 2:33PM|#
Sorry, I see Zappa as a wasted talent. His lyrics were about
as meaningful to me as pulling names from a hat, which is how Thom
Yorke wrote the lyrics for Kid A.
Zappa's genius was hardly wasted--but it lay more in the music than
the lyrics. If you're solely a "lyrics guy," then Zappa's probably
not the best thing. But musically he's incomparable.
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 2:33PM|#
GILMORE, I will be in Manhattan April 26-27. But I have a dinner with 5-7 people at least already. And your idea would require me to leave Manhattan :-)
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 2:34PM|#
That's what I always loved about British bands. They generally
understood the role of humor in lyrical writing. Of Course, that
stemmed from their intense lyrical heritage, and their use of
wit.
With emo type outfits there is generally only one emotion to
experience. If they want to sound pretentious then they should go
write symphonies. They're full of pretentious, grandiose
bullshit.
I love classical guitar, but symphonies make me feel schizophrenic,
or like I'm in the middle of a Tom & Jerry cartoon.
BakedPenguin|3.27.08 @ 2:34PM|#
One of the greatest moments of Behind the Music was Warrant boo-hooing that Nevermind hit big on MTV and killed the momentum for their third album.
I could forgive Seattle a lot of sins for that...
|3.27.08 @ 2:35PM|#
I'm beginning to think this discussion was a trap to out the
hipster cosmotarians.
That's right. You think those Mexican metalheads have a mean
streak, wait until the libertarian metalheads show up to party. All
four of us.
|3.27.08 @ 2:36PM|#
"You nailed it, that is exactly why the best punk and metal and
rock music works. Truth is just a tongue in the cheek away. Are you
listening Obama?"
I have to admit that if Obama had said something like "of course
Reverend Wright is crazy, but what the hell was a supposed to do I
am a half white guy from Hawaii running in a black district in
Chicago, I had to get some street creed somehow", even I would have
had to give him credit.
|3.27.08 @ 2:36PM|#
Generation X is great for giving us good coffee, good beer, and killing off hair metal.
|3.27.08 @ 2:38PM|#
I have to admit that if Obama had said something like "of
course Reverend Wright is crazy, but what the hell was a supposed
to do I am a half white guy from Hawaii running in a black district
in Chicago, I had to get some street creed somehow", even I would
have had to give him credit.
I'd have voted for him if he did that, even though he's a total
flim-flam artist.
alan|3.27.08 @ 2:40PM|#
R&B which is really just music for sensibilities 14 year
old black girls,
I blame Whitney. Before Whitney, R&B was a form of pop music
that was saturated in the good stuff, rhythm, later on funk driven
rhythm, blue notes and adults singing about adult situations. Then
came Whitney with her pristine perfect voice that lacked color and
the erotic blue, and her diva yelping at high pitches without any
reference to the underlying harmony.
When I first her Lisa Lopes (RIP) sing in Atlanta in the early 90's
it was like a breath of fresh air because I had not heard anyone in
R&B sing like that in well over a decade.
TallDave|3.27.08 @ 2:43PM|#
Next phase:
Emo gangsta rap.
I straight up capped that punk,
That made me sad and I cried
Why doesn't anyone like me?
Muthafuckin biatches are so unfair
|3.27.08 @ 2:46PM|#
Alan,
That is a good point about R&B. R&B used to be music for
adults. In fact in the 70s it was along with country the most adult
music you could listen to in that it dealt with real adult issues
like sex and love and betrayal in a real adult way. There is
nothing bubblegum about Marvin Gay or Aretha Franklin. Somewhere
along the way it became the worst sort of teenage bubblegum pop. I
never thought about it but maybe Whitney is to blame. There is a
hell of a lot of distance between "I Never LOved a Man" and "How
Will I Know".
|3.27.08 @ 2:47PM|#
libertarian metalheads show up to party. All four of
us.
I'd like to see how well emo kids make out at an Entombed show or
something.
Speaking of: Entombed + ballet
wtf?
|3.27.08 @ 2:47PM|#
I blame Whitney.
I blame disco.
Both R&B and jazz went on a sharp decline from about 1977-83
that got us from Funkadelic and Mahavishnu Orchestra to
Thriller and Kenny G.
LibertyMark|3.27.08 @ 2:51PM|#
What a funny thread. Those graphic profiles of emo kids were
right on. But what people think of as "emo" is all over the place.
Emo has many influences, from sucky pop-punk to hardcore metal and
punk.
If you want a huge list of emo bands, look at who plays at the Vans
Warped Tour every summer.
I hereby admit my status as a 40-year-old man that likes several
"emo" bands! I have attended the last three Warped Tours with my
teenage nephews, and have seen first hand the sad assortment of emo
kids in their costumes. Just trying on personas.
But out of the experience, I have come to like the following bands:
Underoath, Thursday, Circa Survive, Chiodos, As Cities Burn,
Killswitch Engage (KSE is not emo), among others.
highnumber|3.27.08 @ 2:52PM|#
This talk of different genres being dead, like R&B since Whitney, or whatever, just goes to show that you all don't keep up. It's dead to you only because you stopped listening. There's tons of great R&B, from Angie Stone to Sharon Jones. Try paying attention.
|3.27.08 @ 2:53PM|#
"There's some really good rock en español out there if you have
a look"
Of course. And as good as groups like Tacuba and Mana are, rock en
espanol =/= Mexican music in general. Nor does Mexican music equal
Latin American music. Cuban music, for instance, tends to be more
upbeat.
The tendency of much of Mexican music and culture in general seems
to lean towards the tragic and yes, sad, when compared to other
Latin American cultures. Compare the Mexican writer Manuel
Gutierrez Najera to his contemporary, Cuban Jose Marti. You can see
why Emo would thrive in Mexican culture.
Famous Mortimer (Stoned)|3.27.08 @ 2:57PM|#
R&B has fallen off of its barstool. It's time for a
renaissance.
Sometimes it feels like white artists have done much more to
explore R&B traditions in recent years than black artists have.
Jeff Buckley had a voice that made artists like Whitney Houston,
and all of these ridiculous "ew-ew-ew" singers look like hacks. It
was based more on people like Buddy Holly than Mary J. Blige.
Indie artists tend to revisit old formulas, and place new spins on
them, and that isn't always a bad thing. What makes pop music
wonderful is that it ultimately is a formula. It's a set of
parameters that you can work in.
You don't see a lot of revisiting in rap and r&b. They're
merely mining rap & r&b from the 90's. It's dominated by
club, and ringtone based music.
I blame it on a rising tide of Libertarianism in the black
community.
|3.27.08 @ 3:00PM|#
"The tendency of much of Mexican music and culture in general
seems to lean towards the tragic and yes, sad, when compared to
other Latin American cultures. Compare the Mexican writer Manuel
Gutierrez Najera to his contemporary, Cuban Jose Marti. You can see
why Emo would thrive in Mexican culture."
I agree atrevete. Mexican culture may be more fertile for emos than
Caribbean Latins... while I have heard there are some emos in
Venezuela, one rarely sees them. Very rarely, and much like in
Mexico, they are viewed as just plain wierd, and as a phase they
will grow out of.
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 3:02PM|#
"What a funny thread. Those graphic profiles of emo kids were
right on. But what people think of as "emo" is all over the place.
Emo has many influences, from sucky pop-punk to hardcore metal and
punk."
Also, slow core artists were often slapped with the tag "emo." "Red
House Painters" comes to mind.
I think we're showing our immaturity here as well.
What these emo kids are doing is not uncommon. They're trying on
different personas as kids, and that's how people grow up.
Most people dressed, and acted in puzzling ways as children.
BorisTheSpider|3.27.08 @ 3:03PM|#
As a 31 year-old, GenX, Seattle-sound loving dude from the
Midwest that can remember when MTV rocked and when flannels were
simply necessary, I am appalled by today's MAINSTREAM music scene.
I forgot who said it in this thread, but there was a time, not too
long ago, when Top 40 radio and about half a dozen stations on the
dial had listenable, decent guitar based music.
The rap analogy to hair metal is perfect ... and popular music
moves in cycles - from flashy and cocky to more substantive. A new
cyclical trend is right around the corner ...
|3.27.08 @ 3:04PM|#
This talk of different genres being dead, like R&B since
Whitney, or whatever, just goes to show that you all don't keep up.
It's dead to you only because you stopped listening. There's tons
of great R&B, from Angie Stone to Sharon Jones. Try paying
attention.
I haven't listened to that much of the neo-soul stuff, but what I
have heard (while much better than the hip-hop divas) still strikes
me as producer-driven and somewhat hollow at the core. The singers
are great, but they need to get out of current R&B assembly
line mentality and work in an organic musical context.
But hey, that's just my opinion--obviously many people would
disagree.
highnumber|3.27.08 @ 3:13PM|#
rock en espanol =/= Mexican music in general
And emo ≠ American music in general. Everything is part of a
whole.
You don't see a lot of revisiting in rap and r&b. They're
merely mining rap & r&b from the 90's.
First off, that would mean they are revisiting, but apparently
they're revisiting a decade that you don't care for. And second,
no, you're not paying attention. I hear R&B that's influenced
by all that's come before. If you like 60s soul, all sorts of
people are updating that. If you like 70s funk, people are still
recording funky jams. They may be working more modern influences
into the music and you may not like that, but it is my solemn duty
to let you all know that you're acting like old men if you say that
such & such genre has been worthless since [blank].
LibertyMark|3.27.08 @ 3:18PM|#
Famous Mortimer said, "I think we're showing our immaturity here
as well."
I agree. While it's fun to pile on, and people who purposely put on
costumes to bring negative attention to themselves might deserve
it, we should maybe be a bit more tolerant of weirdness. You know,
being libertarians and all.
There's still good music to found in just about every genre, if one
resists the arrow-of-time tendency to grow old and start saying
stupid things like "they don't make good music anymore"
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 3:19PM|#
First off, we're speaking primarily of top 40 music.
Secondly, I don't see the establishment of 90's R&B as separate
from the modern style. I see it as a lack of evolution, whether
good or bad, period. It's a shameless repetition in tone, and
style.
Finally, you're right, I could give a frog's fat ass what goes on
in R&B, and Rap.
You win.
|3.27.08 @ 3:20PM|#
"First off, that would mean they are revisiting, but apparently
they're revisiting a decade that you don't care for. And second,
no, you're not paying attention. I hear R&B that's influenced
by all that's come before. If you like 60s soul, all sorts of
people are updating that. If you like 70s funk, people are still
recording funky jams. They may be working more modern influences
into the music and you may not like that, but it is my solemn duty
to let you all know that you're acting like old men if you say that
such & such genre has been worthless since [blank]."
It is entirly possible that Blues Jazz and R&B are exausted art
forms in that they have been done about as well as they can be
done. There are some decent blues artists out there who really do
some real down home stuff, but as good as they are they still are
not as good as the golden age stuff from the 40s and 50s. The same
is true with Jazz. It may be the case that the giants of the 20s
through 60s took the music as far as it could go and everything
else is just either an inferior copy or just inferior in
general.
This is certainly the case in classical music. Classical music over
the last 80 years has either been inferior knock offs of the great
or really creative but wierd atonal stuff. Who knows maybe someone
will figure out a way to make better R&B, Jazz and Blues that
has ever been done but I doubt it.
Famous Mortimer|3.27.08 @ 3:21PM|#
"I haven't listened to that much of the neo-soul stuff, but what
I have heard (while much better than the hip-hop divas) still
strikes me as producer-driven and somewhat hollow at the core. The
singers are great, but they need to get out of current R&B
assembly line mentality and work in an organic musical
context."
Yes! It's a vocal gymnastics competition.
Matilda|3.27.08 @ 3:29PM|#
"Heck, I'm not so old to not know what emo is, but I thought
pretty much goth = emo."
Emo: Like a Goth, only a lot less dark and much more Harry
Potter:
http://www.funadvice.com/q/goth_or_emo
DannyK|3.27.08 @ 3:32PM|#
Clearly, George Bush needs to organize a modern-day Emo Exodus to resettle this persecuted minority somewhere. I nominate Detroit, which could use new blood.
|3.27.08 @ 3:33PM|#
"Emo: Like a Goth, only a lot less dark and much more Harry
Potter:"
Does that mean like Goth only more overtly gay?
Paul|3.27.08 @ 3:36PM|#
emo is doesn't out you as "over 25 and with a life." It outs
you as at least 40, maybe 45, and completely unaware of the vast
world of internet humor.
Eric S. I resemble that remark! Oh, btw, you won the thread with
your lawn remark.
Oh, and furthermore, I actually do know what emo is, and I'm
older.than.25.
highnumber|3.27.08 @ 3:44PM|#
Anyway, the important thing here, the lesson we can take from
this discussion of Mexican emo kids being bashed by kids from every
other subculture is that if anyone sincerely wants to hear some
really freakin' good modern R&B, check this out:
Angie
Stone The Art of Love & War
First Little Pig|3.27.08 @ 3:46PM|#
200 comments on this? Ha ha ha ... What a great group reasonoids are.
Paul|3.27.08 @ 3:49PM|#
First Little Pig...
"for a magazine called Reason..."
C'mon, you know you want to say it.
|3.27.08 @ 3:50PM|#
we should maybe be a bit more tolerant of weirdness. You know, being libertarians and all.
Amen.
Yeah, I'm coming to this thread late. I've seen almost everything I
like dissed, from my favorite band (Orchestral Manoeuvres in the
Dark) to the emo subculture with which I closely identify myself
(although the 'emos' don't identify with me)).
I grew up alienated (I was only one of a few black people at my
elementary and middle school, etc.), my alienation led me
eventually to pretty much not care at all about being 'cool'. Since
I already did not fit anyone's stereotype of how a black guy should
act or dress, I was free to identify myself with any scene I
wanted. Even though I'm not all mopey and have a sense of
humor/irony, I closely identified with those despised 'emos' (I
think, as I was someone who always felt like an outsider
myself).
So I was well on my way to being a prototypical black emo before I
joined the Army and got a bunch of tattoos (2 partial
sleeves).
I make minimal effort to be emo and hang out with a bunch of people
from different scense. I do catch flak whenever I paint my
fingernails black.
P.S.: If you want to hear some good rap, I recommend Wu-Tang, Aesop
Rock, Outkast, Lupe Fiasco, The Roots, et al.
|3.27.08 @ 3:53PM|#
Emo kids are destroying America ... so when can we expect the government PSA to air on TV? Maybe it will show a group of metro-emo teens packed into a car at a drive-thru, listening to Saves The Day or Jimmy Eat World, and suddenly, inexplicably accelerating to smash and kill the innocent little lass on her tricycle.
|3.27.08 @ 3:53PM|#
Oh, and if you think emo isn't ironic or self-effacing enough, try Say Anything. Very good, almost traditional rock (Brand New also has its virtues).
LibertyMark|3.27.08 @ 4:04PM|#
If Ron Paul had a gig at the Warped Tour, I'm pretty sure the kids would dig him.
LibertyMark|3.27.08 @ 4:08PM|#
BTW, I wore my Ron Paul rEVOLution t-shirt to last year's Warped Tour in Houston, and all I got was a big thumbs-up from one guy and an amicable discussion with two poor deluded 17-20 year olds handing out Communist Party lit.
dhex|3.27.08 @ 4:08PM|#
Emo is Goth's retarded cousin.
the retarded cousin of a retard is still retarded, though.
oh ho ho ho ho!
someone was telling me about a really good mexican grind type band,
overly technical and insane a la discordance axis or perhaps even
the locust.
any ideas?
highnumber|3.27.08 @ 4:18PM|#
dhex,
I am sending an email to the King of Metal. He will be able to
answer your question.
Bill|3.27.08 @ 4:18PM|#
"I never thought about it but maybe Whitney is to blame."
Nope, Donna Summers
elvis moe|3.27.08 @ 4:23PM|#
"Eric S. I resemble that remark! Oh, btw, you won the thread
with your lawn remark."
Lawn remark -- Not original
|3.27.08 @ 4:24PM|#
"I never thought about it but maybe Whitney is to blame."
Nope, Donna Summer"
Donna was more disco than R&B and in her defense there is
nothing bubblegum about Love to Love You Baby.
|3.27.08 @ 4:27PM|#
Jimmy Eat World played during half time at the MLS championship.
They seemed like the kind of thing that frat guys would listen
to.
Pet Shop Boys? don't sully their names. They are disco geniuses.
Their remix of Rammstein's Mein Teil has been in high
rotation on my winamp playlist for a year.
dhex|3.27.08 @ 4:33PM|#
no, none of those finger tapping fruitloops. satriani, yngwie
(his freak out .mp3 is awesome though, the thing on the plane
thing) that mentally ill dude with the chicken bucket on his head,
uhhhh all those other assholes. kings of being sort of boring and
extremely talented at the same time, perhaps.
i appreciate your intercession with his royal metal highness,
broseidon.
dhex: Mars Volta?
dude, that's not even fucking funny.
|3.27.08 @ 4:33PM|#
This whole thread makes me think I should be posting at the new
"Hit & Run, Clueless Geezer Edition."
I'm cueing up my iPhone so I can listen to some classic Elvis
Costello, hug my knees, rock back and forth and await the sweet
release of death.
|3.27.08 @ 4:37PM|#
dude, that's not even fucking funny
One time I did see this Mexican-(American?) band playing on Austin City Limits. They were doing a sort of garage thing. They were really good and I have no idea who they were.
|3.27.08 @ 4:41PM|#
"One time I did see this Mexican-(American?) band playing on
Austin City Limits. They were doing a sort of garage thing. They
were really good and I have no idea who they were."
Los Lobos perhaps?
|3.27.08 @ 4:43PM|#
It wasn't Los Lobos. The lead singer was a diminutive fellow clad in a black t-shirt with a lightning bolt on front. He basically sneered his way through his songs.
dhex|3.27.08 @ 4:49PM|#
speaking of weird hybrids, there's always nortec.
it's not as much fun as it should be, really. but still
hybridy.
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 4:56PM|#
Acid Damage McGee, if I give you a quarter, will you go by a sense of humor? The Malmsteen thing was a joke. If I wasn't joking I would have said somebody without a ridiculous Swedish name.
alan|3.27.08 @ 5:01PM|#
When they first came for the emos, I did nothing because I am
not an emo,
and then they came for more emos, I again did nothing because I
still was not emo. They pretty much stopped with the emos and that
was fine by me.
dhex|3.27.08 @ 5:10PM|#
Acid Damage McGee, if I give you a quarter, will you go by a
sense of humor?
dude, king kong ain't got nothing on me.
i would say i not only "go by" a sense of humor but i am indeed
known by a few dozen in several sections of various counties
throughout the tri-state area as having a sense of humor.
the suggestion that one could buy a sense of humor is, of course,
absurd.
also responding to anything related to the mars volta with "that's
not fucking funny" is indeed fucking funny.
Episiarch|3.27.08 @ 5:12PM|#
The question is: did I brilliantly say "go by", or did I screw
up and leave out the "u"?
I will never tell.
|3.27.08 @ 5:17PM|#
What do emos want?
Locally, the emos' thrust is to facilitate Self-Centered Public
Gushing and Cred-Building. But down the clothesline, few get
specific. The ambiguity is a dense pall of Parliament®, wafting in
no particular direction.
highnumber|3.27.08 @ 5:25PM|#
Did the "Acid Damage McGee" nickname originate with dhex's
self-description at Urkobold™ or does it predate that?
(We're still waiting for the King of Metal's response)
|3.27.08 @ 5:34PM|#
Emo strategists know that they're having real trouble finding a new groove for their gang. This is understandable. A subjective posse must establish a new identity, regardless of how derivative it may be. "Me-too-ism" only fleetingly wins fashion points - then too few and too early in the game. To co-opt Free-Thinkers would reduce the emos to insignificance even faster than their recent concentration on blackening the names of those outside their Sphere of Annoyance.
Nonny|3.27.08 @ 5:36PM|#
"One time I did see this Mexican-(American?) band playing on
Austin City Limits. They were doing a sort of garage thing. They
were really good and I have no idea who they were."
Los Lonely Boys?
|3.27.08 @ 5:40PM|#
The Emo-dominated realm bitterly resents intrusions on its privileges from outside its domain. Denial of this simply crosscuts the grain of history as heretics are crossed off the proverbial Guest List.
|3.27.08 @ 5:54PM|#
Perhaps they are fighting for food? Aren't all Mexicans starving, and that is why they come to America and take my job? Whoever said they're all assholes was spot on, and the whole mocking emo thing is now more annoying than the kids who are identified (self identify?) as emo. That's emore!
|3.27.08 @ 7:33PM|#
Irritating, because the whole emo thing is a perversion of the
original genre: emocore and emotive hardcore. It's nothing to do
with this pop rock Panic at the Disco sort of thing and the
obnoxious scene fashioncore stuff.
Obviously violence is not the answer and the youtube videos of
these kids getting smashed into walls are kind of horrifying to
see. The ignorance of the people beating these kids up is
astounding. Neither the abusive kids nor the whiny ones understand
what emo is. Ignorance.
It almost makes me want to go cut myself and cry.
GILMORE|3.27.08 @ 11:57PM|#
Episiarch | March 27, 2008, 2:28pm | #
""The quality of life is better than manhattan and it's faster
to/from here to most places in the city than say, the Upper West.
Or York? :) eh? eh?""
Faster? Not if you take a taxi or black car everywhere
;-)
I live 1 block from the L, and am 1 stop from 1rst ave, 2 from
Union Sq. That was my point.
Manhattan is for the people who...want to be in Manhattan. At
least, that's the way it was for me.
Was? Ok then. Clearly it was where you wanted to spend the rest of
your days.... or not....
Maybe you'd live in brooklyn now if you'd spent more time here.
:)
I really shouldnt waste time debating NY neighborhoods with
temporary NY'rs. You were probably no different than the 5 year
tourist.
Aka - average Manhattanite.
Some of us were born here and have a slightly different
perspective. Not that it matters. Some people WANT to live on the
upper east like it's manifest destiny or something. They tend to be
from long island.
GILMORE|3.28.08 @ 12:02AM|#
p.s. FWIW i was born in manhattan, grew up in brooklyn, lived in manhattan again for 6 years after college, then came here. I wasnt a 1 way transplanted brooklyner like most i live around. I make fun of the uber-pro-brooklyn kids that you do as well because they're mostly from Wisconsin or something here at art school.
alan|3.28.08 @ 12:19AM|#
New Yorkers, to know you is to love you
My first white girl was a New Yorker, so I wont give you too hard
of a time.
|3.28.08 @ 12:01PM|#
Have no idea what's an EMO, (emu?) but starting 'EMOS for Concealed Carry' here.
The point of it is|3.28.08 @ 8:09PM|#
You guys are missing out on what truly is awesome about this and the whole meaning... beating up some faggy kids. (who cares what group their in)
|4.5.08 @ 4:41AM|#
I think that people shouldnt be doing this because who r we to be beatin up people for just the way they dress or there style. Stupid fucks grow up
Rob|4.10.08 @ 8:43AM|#
Jimmy Eat world isn't emo.....EMO is not punk it is not screamo
either....its Fall Out Boy and Panic at the Disco on top as their 2
best.
3 Doors Down is Southern Alter rock like Collective Soul only
faster and harder.
For an emo band you must have fashion plus "sound" both of which
suck. It's like gay boy band death cults. Its very
gay...literally
Rob|4.10.08 @ 8:47AM|#
"As Bill Hicks said, if you hate drugs then just go home, burn
all your best old albums, and start listening to New Kid on the
Block."
Bill Hicks was and is a fucktard
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