More Texas-14: Paul Moving Up

David Weigel | February 25, 2008

I just had a chat with Mark Elam, Ron Paul's congressional campaign manager, who's backed up the rumors of good tracking polls in the race against Peden.

"He's improving his standing," Elam said, "which has never been in jeopardy in our polls." From a starting point of around 60 percent last month, Paul is at 72 percent in the last internal poll. Peden is at 11 percent. According to Elam the numbers have been moving since the campaign bought $400,000 in TV and radio ads in the district.

I asked about Peden's internal polls, which show him up 10 over Paul. "Our Democratic opponent said the same thing last year," Elam said. "I think we won by 20 points. These guys are doing so poorly that they have to put out false numbers." According to the Paul campaign's polls, only about 20 percent of TX-14 voters have an opinion of Peden, and most have never heard of him. Elam brushed off the endorsements of the Victoria and Galveston County papers: "They've endorsed against Dr. Paul in the past."

You can see and hear the Paul campaign's media right here. It's a lot more effective than one of Paul's latest pieces of direct mail for his presidential race, which James Kirchick has scanned and posted here.

Comments

|2.25.08 @ 4:38PM|#

I can no longer support Ron Paul after he plagiarized the Soup Nazi in that postcard.

svf|2.25.08 @ 4:40PM|#

holy shit, that flyer posted at TNR is embarrassing as hell... this has to be a joke, right? I've stuck with the RP campaign through thick and thin so far (not always easy) but this actually made me regret donating for the first time...

jesus.

Christopher Monnier|2.25.08 @ 4:47PM|#

Talk about pandering...

svf|2.25.08 @ 4:52PM|#

the anti-illegal immigration tv ad was pandering...

the postcard is just... gross...

Colin|2.25.08 @ 4:52PM|#

I also thought that ad was a joke.

If it wasn't -- if the Paul campaign actually mailed that out -- then . . . he's got a lot of esplainin' to do.

|2.25.08 @ 4:55PM|#

Paul is moderate on illegal immigration. He's against a fence, and for more immigrants and against deportation. But he also supports ending birthright citizenship.

He's not Ted Kennedy on immigration. And he's also not Tom Tancredo on immigration.

idiota|2.25.08 @ 4:58PM|#

As a person of "latin" decent, i must say that I found this so bad, it was funny. talk about overt use of racial stereotypes!

and to think i gave the campaign cash! call me and idiota!

Splain away, paul. splain away. We are waiting.

idiota|2.25.08 @ 4:59PM|#

"He's not Ted Kennedy on immigration. And he's also not Tom Tancredo on immigration."

Dan, this ad is as tancredo-esque as they come.

Colin|2.25.08 @ 5:02PM|#

That ad makes Tancredo look like Ceasar Chavez.

|2.25.08 @ 5:12PM|#

Paul's staff really knows how to hit with the racist low blows.

Paul had good messages, but its always been punctuated with typical campaign sleaze.

|2.25.08 @ 5:14PM|#

Colin,

I'd hardly say that. Tancredo has many times equivicated Illegal Immigrants with crime if not terrorism. Paul's merely lying about their work ethic.

jj|2.25.08 @ 5:14PM|#

As an immigrant I find the postcard offensive. And still I would contribute to his campaign. The positives of having him in congress far outweigh the silliness of that pathetic attempt at scaremongering.

I doubt Paul picked that postcard himself. He sure has a way of choosing pathetic campaign staff.

UNLESS of course, that postcard was done by a third party group -- very likely.

Gus|2.25.08 @ 5:20PM|#

Tilting at windmills

|2.25.08 @ 5:21PM|#

I would not trust a THING James Kirchick scanned, posted or if he told the truth even..He is a scumbag.

svf|2.25.08 @ 5:23PM|#

UNLESS of course, that postcard was done by a third party group -- very likely.

I was hoping that too, but it does have that "authorized and paid for by Ron Paul for President 2008" thing on it...

|2.25.08 @ 5:25PM|#

So Ron Paul is a member of the Texas 14, eh? Those dirty, commie, hippy, bastards!

|2.25.08 @ 5:30PM|#

i agree whoever he has running his media and marketing is crap. the free grass roots stuff has always been light years ahead. fire the campaign ron that post card is garbage.

unbelievable.

Marc|2.25.08 @ 5:46PM|#

I don't see what the big deal is with the mailer. Some people are so sensitive these days. An ugly dude on a post card is not offensive to me.

Paying social security to illegal aliens is much more offensive.

I actually disagree with Ron Paul on immigration. Still I'm not offended by this ad.

The only way I would be offended by this ad is if the message of it wasn't true. Apparently, it is.

|2.25.08 @ 5:47PM|#

Is that you, Photoshop?

|2.25.08 @ 5:52PM|#

Wow what a hit piece Wiegel
You know that whoever did this ad was the campaign and not Ron Paul
but then again how sure are you that this was mailed by the Ron Paul campaign?
It seems like there are sabotagers within the campaign It makes me sad to see them still working and getting paid. I hope someone gets fired

|2.25.08 @ 5:52PM|#

This has gotta be fake.

|2.25.08 @ 5:55PM|#

Paying social security to illegal aliens is much more offensive.
I actually disagree with Ron Paul on immigration. Still I'm not offended by this ad.
The only way I would be offended by this ad is if the message of it wasn't true. Apparently, it is.

Social security "contributions" by illegal aliens, and their employers, utilizing bogus SSNs, helps keep the Ponzi scheme going. They don't get to withdraw from it. I thought that was fairly common knowledge.

|2.25.08 @ 6:00PM|#

holy shit, that flyer posted at TNR is embarrassing as hell

If you were running a libertarian campaign, sure.

However, if you were running a populist campaign, that would hit the sweet spot of your demographics.

pottsy|2.25.08 @ 6:03PM|#

There are no saboteurs within the campaign, save for the dipshits who are running it. Did you see the first commercials they put out last year? I'm embarrassed to have wasted my cash on a campaign that never intended to make a serious run.

|2.25.08 @ 6:15PM|#

J sub D,

They also add to the taxable wages of the person whose SSN they're using...and if they're claiming a bunch of exemptions, they're not paying any taxes. Guess who's going to have to try to convince the IRS they didn't really earn those wages?

So, the cosmotarian view is that identity theft is OK as long as those doing it are the poor oppressed illegal immigrants, just like spending federal money in ways not authorized by the Constitution is OK if it pisses off religious conservatives (emb stem cell res).

|2.25.08 @ 6:15PM|#

I don't think that logo "Ron Paul Hope for America" was used in the '88 and '90 campaign.

|2.25.08 @ 6:19PM|#

as a PR flak myself, i have my suspicions about the legitimacy of this flyer. if it did drop, it wouldn't be a shock to find out it was not vetted by paul's national office. perhaps it was mailed unilaterally by a local committee? since kirchick has blotted out any identifying marks, it's hard to know anything, not even its drop point.

still, it is ugly and paul's campaign should make a big deal of firing whomever was responsible for it.

It is ironic that kirchich keeps screeching that paul isn't a libertarian, as though he himself were an authority. kirchich is about as libertarian as benjamin netanyahu. the quickest glance at his recent writings reveals someone who isn't remotely qualified to speak on the qualities of libertarianism. his post of this issue is a perfect example. why would libertarians, who think social security should be disbanded, and who think government should get out of the foreign aid business, be upset about u.s. government not making payments to a citizen of another country? as he did with the ron paul hit piece, kirchick is counting on liberal emotionalism to solicit outrage based on a sense of fairness, not on points of law, the Constitution, or even libertarianism.

It doesn't surprise me that kirchick would post this without providing any attribution or verification. i am a disappointed that reason would parrot it without further investigation or analysis. very disappointed.

|2.25.08 @ 6:20PM|#

this was totally made up. It was made up in photoshop and it looks like some one made this up in theire house. For me as soon as my subscription runs out at reason I am done with this magazine.

|2.25.08 @ 6:20PM|#

Chris Potter,

They are much more likely to be using ITINs than someone else SSN, and therefore not committing identity theft.

|2.25.08 @ 6:24PM|#

lol the Reason comment page stoners are whining again.

|2.25.08 @ 6:26PM|#

Yeah, I can totally see an illegal immigrant submitting their identification and tax returns to the IRS so they can get an ITIN. [/sarcasm]

|2.25.08 @ 6:36PM|#

This is such an obvious fake...the creator and/or those promoting it as real should really start worrying about the lawsuits they will most likely be spanked with and most definitely deserve.

|2.25.08 @ 6:39PM|#

Yeah, I can totally see an illegal immigrant submitting their identification and tax returns to the IRS so they can get an ITIN. [/sarcasm]

When the comprehensive immigration reformers use the words "a path to citizenship for those who have lived and worked here without breaking the law and who have continually paid their taxes," just who do you think they are talking about?

Though it still doesn't look that onerous, I expect it was easier before the recent documentation crackdowns to get an ITIN.

So if your point is: The more the government tries to be obnoxious about making sure people who are working are in the US legally, the more likely it is that actual identity theft will take place, well... You are right.

libertysilver|2.25.08 @ 6:45PM|#

The postcard targets "illegal" immigrants.
Do YOU want to support them?

Really people, I think we pay enough
taxes already.

This has nothing to do with racism.

It has to do with following the laws.

If you really want to support foreigners
who come here illegally, why don't you invite them to your home and let them live there for free?

Might as well, you want to open your bank account to them.

|2.25.08 @ 6:54PM|#

libertysilver,

Was "authoritysilver" taken?

|2.25.08 @ 7:02PM|#

That postcard is pendejo to the max.

I'm lovin' it and so is every other mexican I know.

Anyone who is offended by that needs to have their head examined. Lighten up people!

|2.25.08 @ 7:09PM|#

I am beginning to think Reason has a case of the thought Disorder schizophrenia,unusual thought processes. Next thing you know, were at the likes of the SPOOF or the Wonkette
Trash, and NOT from the RP HQ..Know the difference?

|2.25.08 @ 7:25PM|#

I'm a libertarian and I'm not gonna have a heart attack abou it. I suppose McCain and Obama are such great libertarian supporters, I can just vote for them. I don't regret my support of Ron Paul, at all. I don't even agree with Ron Paul on immigration. I'm for open borders. Tell Kirchick to stick that mailer up his you know what. Take a stand, don't buy into the ignorant smears against Ron Paul by non-libertarians. At least Ron Paul doesn't mesmerize us the way the Obama campaign does. Ron Paul clearly tells us where he stands not constant flip flopping. If the mailer, offends some, it just does. Which other libertarian are you proposing? Who are they and what are their names.

svf|2.25.08 @ 7:30PM|#

I don't disagree with the position stated by the mailing either. Of course not, no Social Security for illegal immigrants. Hell, there shouldn't be any Social Security at all in the first place.

But the presentation is simply ugly. I'm no political genius, so maybe this is the way to get votes among whatever demographic this was mailed to.

I just don't like the idea of having funded a campaign who presents itself in such a shoddy, lowest-common-denominator manner (which could describe just about all the TV advertising too.)

If you're gonna lose, at least lose with something resembling class and dignity.

Which brings up the point -- since Ron Paul is clearly not a contender any more, why is Kirchick still beating that little bongo of his anyway ? "This time it's personal"...?

yoshi|2.25.08 @ 7:34PM|#

I have a question - who the hell cares who represents TX-14 except those that live in the TX-14? Seriously?

Do I expect anyone living outside my district to care who represents it (which, unfortunately, is Keith Ellison)?

CHACHA|2.25.08 @ 7:42PM|#

Personally, I thought the postcard was a brilliant stroke . . . never understood the "libertarian" position on the immigration issue. The Constitution protects the citizen. NO ONE ELSE!

Stephen Martin|2.25.08 @ 7:44PM|#

I don't understand what is so bad about that postcard. So do you all think illegal hispanic gang member should get social security benefits?

CHACHA|2.25.08 @ 7:48PM|#

S Martin . . . u won the thread! So true . . . what is with these gripers here?

Pablo Escobar|2.25.08 @ 8:03PM|#

If people actually looked at Ron Paul's statements on immigration in detail they'd realise his position is very similar to Milton Friedman's.

Yes, we want more immigrants in the long-run because they benefit the economy. No, we can't do it right now because of the welfare state. So yes, we should enforce the existing laws and oppose amnesty in the interim.

Oh noes! How un-libertarian!

|2.25.08 @ 8:13PM|#

I've always been puzzled by the liberal/cosmitarian notion that depicting a minority who looks like an actual representative member of said minority class rather than Cliff Huxtable or Ricardo Motnalban is somehow "racist". Isn't such an attitude in itself racist? I've worked in the restaurant industry a lot when I was younger, and I've known a lot of illegal immigrants. Other than maybe being a little on the heavy side, this is what they look like. Most smoke. Most own hats. Some have tattoos. And they they have a tendency to go shirtless a lot more than the average anglo-American.

roversaurus|2.25.08 @ 8:18PM|#

I'm all for not giving S.S. to illegal aliens.
That kind of statement is why Ron Paul gets my vote.

What's wrong with his post card?

CKC|2.25.08 @ 8:25PM|#

The ad is meh, but there is one positive.

Eric Dondero is proven to be a retard once again, since he kept saying that Ron Paul is a Democrat and should run in the Dem primary.

Julian Sanchez|2.25.08 @ 8:41PM|#

I keep waiting for some kind of argument to break out between the RP defenders who regard this as so blatantly awful that it can only be a forgery concocted to smear Dr Paul and the RP defenders who, gosh, just can't see a THING wrong with it.

Barring that, allow me to suggest that a more credible defense might be: "Yeah, this is ugly, and precisely because Paul is nevertheless still worth supporting on net, someone ought to clue the campaign in that stuff like this is apt to bite you in the ass in the long run."

Eric Dondero|2.25.08 @ 8:57PM|#

A good reporter, even a biased one, would have gotten at least a statement or response from the other side. I'm curious as to why Reason did not give Peden the chance to respond to Elam's statements and "factual poll numbers"?

Juan Taco|2.25.08 @ 9:00PM|#

That's fake. Rest assured. I don't know if that website realizes it or not, but I do know that it's fake.

|2.25.08 @ 9:03PM|#

KIRCHICKS STILL MAD BECAUSE HIS IDOL RUDY SPENT 52MILLION FOR ONE DELEGATE. THE FACT THAT HE IS STILL TRYING TO SMEAR RP SHOWS YOU HOW MUCH OF A LOSER THIS KID REALLY IS. JUST ANOTHER LITTLE WORMY WRITER THAT WILL BE FORGOTTEN IN A YEARS TIME.

|2.25.08 @ 9:04PM|#

It's not fake. It was clearly made for a targeted list of some sort, maybe former Tancredo supporters or something.

Damn ugly, but that's politics. I wish the campaign had been ugly in much more effective ways.

|2.25.08 @ 9:09PM|#

While the ad is so silly that it could easily be mistaken for satire (hopefully it is), I don't see any aspect of it that could be called un-libertarian (unlike the "no visas for terrorist nations" crap).

AFAIK, I don't think Kirchick has ever tried to pretend he is a libertarian but the title of his post is further evidence that he doesn't even know what a libertarian is.

"...never understood the "libertarian" position on the immigration issue. The Constitution protects the citizen. NO ONE ELSE!"

It seems you're confusing "libertarian" with "constitutionalist".

"I'm curious as to why Reason did not give Peden the chance to respond to Elam's statements and 'factual poll numbers'?"

Don't you mean, "why... The National Review ...did not give Peden the chance to respond"?

The Wine Commonsewer|2.25.08 @ 9:15PM|#

There's been an email circulating about the big vote to give illegals social security benefits. It is, in fact, very far from reality in the claims it makes.

You cannot get social security retirement benefits unless you paid into the system for at least 11 years and earned approximately $11,500.00 per year (that number changes year to year) OR if you are/were married to someone who is eligible to draw social security benefits.

However, if you were born here and your parents were illegal, you IS a citizen and you IS entitled to draw benefits so long as you paid into the system.

The big argument about the 2006 bill was whether FORMER illegal aliens would be allowed to count the money paid into SS while they were illegal.

I figure if you paid into the system and you qualify for bennies then you ought to get them. Others disagree for a variety of reasons. The most apt illustration is when the underage kid hits the jackpot on the lottery. They ain't going to pay him, because he ain't legal to gamble.

|2.25.08 @ 9:24PM|#

I have a question - who the hell cares who represents TX-14 except those that live in the TX-14?

I care. I care because 1 libertarian voice in Congress is better than 0 libertarian voices in Congress.

If the US came to realize that regional districts are so 18th century, the House would be elected proportionally across the whole country -- or at least proportionally across each state -- and there would be a half dozen libertarian congresspersons at least. As it is today, I'd rather see the one or two who happen to have made it stick around rather than be booted by opponents with more statist leanings.

|2.25.08 @ 9:25PM|#

I don't know how many of you live in Texas, but I saw this guy 32 times today. Get off your PC soapboxes and stick to the real issues.

Guys like the one on the postcard are everywhere.

|2.25.08 @ 9:28PM|#

Oh, by the way...........I was at the Austin rally Saturday and approx. 30%-35% of Paul supporters were Hispanic.

They ALL had shirts on and were intelligent, well reasoned Americans.

They hate this crap too.

|2.25.08 @ 9:30PM|#

I have a question - who the hell cares who represents TX-14 except those that live in the TX-14?

Put another way, my "representative" does not represent me. Every two years I vote for my representative, but for some reason he isn't allowed into the House of "Representatives".

If I could vote for Ron Paul or Jeff Flake over my "representative", I would at least be represented by someone who represents me better than my "representative" does.

Mad Max|2.25.08 @ 9:36PM|#

I would say of the New Republic what Thomas Jefferson said of newspapers: "Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle." (Thomas Jefferson to John Norvell, 1807. ME 11:224).

The postcard may be real or not, but don't rely on the New Republic to give you accurate information on the subject. I'm waiting for an independent source to verify it.

In any event, if the good Doctor has a position on immigration which corresponds to the views of many voters - should he withhold those views from the voters simply because he reached his conclusions via a different path and from different premises?

|2.25.08 @ 9:40PM|#

Ok, Reason, I know you guys are trying to report, but do you honestly think Kirchik is a credible source?

I know Paul has targeted lit. I've distributed it myself.
And I have never seen this, nor anything like it.
This isn't even the style of his lit.

It's much more substantive.

As far as the supporters who aren't offended by it, well, some may not be. I'm sure some would be. The point is, if this were real, don't you think somebody besides Kirchik would have reported it? This is probably something Dondero did when he went off his meds and faxed to Kirchik.

|2.25.08 @ 10:06PM|#

Postcard? I have no idea what kind of postcard you folks are talking about.


Regardless, I support Paul because he supports the law of the land... Many of you I think are not telling the truth about Paul.

By the way it was Paul who wants to put troops on the border in addition to his other plans.

Who cares what Peden suggests. I spoke with him in person a few weeks ago and he misstated Paul's positions and when I corrected him he implied I was a liberal.

Peden has lied about Paul's postions and I hope Paul pounds him in the ground.

Patrick Ruffini|2.25.08 @ 10:18PM|#

I would take any claims of a 70% Ron Paul margin with a huge grain of salt because of this comment of Elam's posted on the Corner:

"Because I am Ron Paul's campaign manager and I have personally overseen 4 different political surveys in district 14 in recent weeks."

Campaign managers do not oversee polls. Pollsters do. If a campaign staffer personally conducted, oversaw, or otherwise compromised the professional independence of a poll, that poll would not be credible.

Has Paul paid any pollsters in his latest campaign finance reports?

Even unknown primary challengers are normally guaranteed at least 25-30% of the vote. Given a controversial incumbent like Paul and the attention this race must be getting locally, I have to believe Peden's numbers are somewhere north of that.

I have no idea whether Peden is in fact ahead. I could see either Paul or Peden winning this thing by 60-40. But it's a shame no one asked Mark "Ron Paul will use his Presidential money on the House race" Elam where these polls were coming from.

|2.25.08 @ 10:56PM|#

But it's a shame no one asked Mark "Ron Paul will use his Presidential money on the House race" Elam where these polls were coming from.

'Scuse me, wasn't that you who said that, not Elam?

|2.25.08 @ 11:08PM|#

CHACHA wrote "The Constitution protects the citizen. NO ONE ELSE!"

Read it again. In some parts, "the rights of the people" (assumed to be citizens) are explicitly mentioned. But in many other parts, the language says simply what the government must or must not do, irrespective of the citizenship of anyone who might be affected.

For instance, "Congress shall make no law..." isn't followed by "except when non-citizens are involved." "The accused shall enjoy..." isn't followed by "unless he be not a citizen..." and so forth.

If you understand anything about the Constitution, you need to understand this: It is not generally a document that says what people can or cannot do. It is a document that says what the government can and cannot do. It exists to define the boundaries of government action. It thus generally protects ANYONE who might come in contact with our government, citizen or not. If we start thinking of and treating it as a laundry list of the privileges of citizenship, we will have missed the point, and lost our country.

|2.25.08 @ 11:15PM|#

Mr. Ruffini,
Way to parse words - he obviously meant that he had commissioned the polls, not that he personally conducted them. Jebus.

|2.25.08 @ 11:23PM|#

It was on Wonkette

Kevin Carson|2.25.08 @ 11:40PM|#

First Giuliani swirling round the bowl and down the hole, and now this. I just wish Dondero had stuck with it so that wanker would be the one with 11%.

Paul should run as a Democrat? Shee-it. Giuliani should be in Argentina hiding from Simon Wiesenthal.

|2.25.08 @ 11:45PM|#

Good campaign managers DO commission, help draft, oversee and evaluate polls. I've been doing it for over 20 years, for Ron Paul and many others. And one of the things you look at in evaluating the results is not the shear numbers for any single poll (although that can be helpful), but the trend you see over a series of polls conducted during the course of a campaign. The trend in Ron Paul's congressional reelection campaign has been a steady upward one...in Dr. Paul's favor.

A strong, positive, issue-oriented campaign by Dr. Paul and a weak, negative campaign by his opponent no doubt play a large role in Ron Paul's ever-increasing support in his district.

If you look at how little Peden has raised and spent and you admit the fact that he has very low name ID, then common sense tells you he is not well positioned to defeat a popular incumbent who is highly "respected."

So, stay tuned. We'll see who was telling the truth in just one week.

|2.26.08 @ 12:15AM|#

Pleeeeease comment on my blog! Pleeeeeease! No one pays me any attention! I think you can't be a conservative unless you support a dumb war! I think Bush's 30% approval rating shows more people need to agree with me! Please pay attention to me!

|2.26.08 @ 12:18AM|#

If this is real more than one source will turn up. Don't hold your breath.

|2.26.08 @ 12:18AM|#

Oh, and BTW, Ruffini, please get my name right. That would be Mark "Ron Paul does not need to use his Presidential money on the House race because he has raised over $1 million for his congressional campaign in just two weeks" Elam. I know it is a mouthful, but that is what all of my close friends call me these days. :-)

|2.26.08 @ 12:45AM|#

Mr. Elam,

Since you seem to be following this thread, was the direct mail referenced above generated by the campaign?

|2.26.08 @ 2:16AM|#

I like the ad because it is effective. It gets the point across. People may think it is stereotypical but it is true. I live in near an area that has lots of illegals and they look like that. I also know that some of the mailers were designed by a young team that perhaps were thinking in terms of political correctness. Illegal immigration is a problem and Paul has the best stance on the issue!!

|2.26.08 @ 5:34AM|#

is that mexican pic real? Looks Like the photo was shopped.

|2.26.08 @ 7:17AM|#

The poster James Kirchick is the same guy who accused Ron Paul of being racist and we all know that it isn't true. If this postcard IS real it was a bad choice from the campaign staff not Ron Paul himself. Also WHAT is wrong with depicting an ILLEGAL gang member and wanting to deport him?

Mark|2.26.08 @ 7:42AM|#

it's another Photoshop smear attack from Wonkette

============

A Very Special Sneak Preview Of Paultard Nation's Flag

wonkette.com/tag/paultards/

You, the humans on the internet, voted earlier today for Texas to be that lucky state
that secedes and forms Paultardia.
We expect the Texas legislature to listen to Wonkette's readership and draft
secession papers immediately.

Be sure to keep this slimy alien out, too

==========

|2.26.08 @ 7:44AM|#

That postcard you linked to is just another Photoshop smear attack from Wonkette

============

A Very Special Sneak Preview Of Paultard Nation's Flag

wonkette.com/tag/paultards/

You, the humans on the internet, voted earlier today for Texas to be that lucky state
that secedes and forms Paultardia.
We expect the Texas legislature to listen to Wonkette's readership and draft
secession papers immediately.

Be sure to keep this slimy alien out, too

==========

Taktix®|2.26.08 @ 7:44AM|#

If this postcard IS real it was a bad choice from the campaign staff not Ron Paul himself.

Last time I checked, the candidate hired his staff.

Also WHAT is wrong with depicting an ILLEGAL gang member and wanting to deport him?

Because of the implication that all illegal immigrants look like this guy.

Look, I realize Dr. Paul did a great deal to get at least some libertarian ideas into the open. (Think hot-ass, no-talent Aimee Allen)

But seriously...

This cult of personality shit has got to go. No one is perfect, even Thomas Jefferson. To blindly defend one's faults, when constructive criticism is more appropriate, is downright ignorant, counterproductive, and showing a clear lack of intelligence.

|2.26.08 @ 7:45AM|#

The postcard is a fake! It's from Wonkette. Come on people do you really think he would mail this out? Do some research before you call him racist. It's another smear campaign.

|2.26.08 @ 8:27AM|#

Uh, Wonkette is giving a tip-o-the-hat to Kirchick's post at the Plank, so I don't think it originated there.

|2.26.08 @ 9:21AM|#

Fantastic postcard! People need to get over themselves. This thing is the bomb.

We're all running scared, Mr. James "don't bother me with the issues" Kirchick! What kind of sound-box is _The New Socialist_ anyway?

|2.26.08 @ 9:35AM|#

Shoulders deep in the Kool-Aid.

None of you apologists would give half a second of consideration to the argument "Hillary Clinton didn't put that out, it was her staff."

|2.26.08 @ 9:50AM|#

Yes, Paul has paid for a pollster.

Payee Name: MOORE INFORMATION
Purpose: POLLING EXPENSE
City: PORTLAND
State: OR
Zip: 97201
Payment Date: 11/01/2007
Amount: $8,375

Joe Blow|2.26.08 @ 9:50AM|#

The reason you know for sure that it is fake is because it says at the bottom that it was paid for by Ron Paul's Presidential Campaign which would be illegal as long as he is still running for president. The Peden campaign would jump all over the illegal nature of that postcard if it had actually been sent out.

|2.26.08 @ 9:54AM|#

I'm sure it will turn out to be just as fake as those old newsletters Kirchick wrote about.

Oh, wait...

Nah, it's gotta be fake, Ron Paul (no, his staff! his staff!) would never send out something with racist overtones.

tarran|2.26.08 @ 10:01AM|#

The reason you know for sure that it is fake is because it says at the bottom that it was paid for by Ron Paul's Presidential Campaign which would be illegal as long as he is still running for president.

Last time I checked, Texas was part of the U.S., and it Ron Paul can spend money there campaigning for president.

Furthermore, I find it telling that Mark Elam did post comments on this website to refute a tangential point raised by another commenter but hasn't said a word denying that the campaign had sent out the postcard.

Could it be a photoshop job? Certainly. But I would expect to be reading hot denunciations from campaign insiders if that were the case.

The silence implies that either:
a) They sent it out on purpose.
b) They sent it out "accidentally" ie Ron Paul would never have approved of it, but his staff and closest advisors aren't applying sufficient oversight.
c) They didn't send it out, but aren't sure that scenario b is playing out.

None of these scenarios are to their credit. I personally hope it is c), but would not be surprised if it were a).

|2.26.08 @ 10:45AM|#

You people and the piece of walking scum Kirchik are beyond contemptable. This thing is not from Ron Paul - it is from the Wonket. What is wrong with you? Do you even check if what this piece of scum gives you to publish is true and real? Folks, this is from the Wonkett satire site and not from Ron Paul's campaign. Is there anything Kirchik and Reason will not stoop to? What on earth is wrong with you people? Do you finally have any sense of decency at all?

Oyate|2.26.08 @ 10:49AM|#

THIS HAS TO BE FAKE!

Look closely at the bottom of that card. "Paid for by Ron Paul for president 2008 campaign consultant"?

NONE of the official campaign materials contain that attribution.

|2.26.08 @ 10:52AM|#

I have a question of you Reason readers - just how much dishonest and corrupt "journalism" are you willing to tolerate from this publication before you finally see them for what they are. This is fake, it is a lie and it is a smear like the rest of the endless Ron Paul smear that Reason has endorsed. Kirchik is a corrupt and evil person and the fact that Reason hosts his crap tells you all you need to know about them. Just simple honesty and human decency does not seem to be too much to ask for.

Doug Mataconis|2.26.08 @ 11:06AM|#

The Wonkette post was posted yesterday at 6:10pm:

http://wonkette.com/360628/a-very-special-sneak-preview-of-paultard-nations-flag

It linked to a TNR post that was posted three hours earlier:

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/02/25/is-this-libertarianism.aspx

This isn't a hoax.

I'd also add that Wonkette is a satire site but not everything that's reported there is false. A lot of it is quite real.

Doug Mataconis|2.26.08 @ 11:07AM|#

DW,

Nothing that TNR posted in its original story about the newsletters has been shown to be untrue.

Why should I think they're lying now ?

|2.26.08 @ 11:08AM|#

the ones commenting negatively on a fabricated postcard are all lazy cause you no jack sh$%^%t about RP...get off your couches and off your xbox and take a day to read up on him. Your country is in deep shit and he's the only one telling you the truth

Doug Mataconis|2.26.08 @ 11:12AM|#

Oyate,

I looked at it and to me the last word reads "Committee"

as in

"Authorized and Paid For By Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign Committee"

svf|2.26.08 @ 11:16AM|#

as in

"Authorized and Paid For By Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign Committee"

... as in the same thing on ALL of his campaign materials.

So if it is a fake, at least the faker is smart enough to get that right...

(P.S. it's not a fake. and the more I read the comments here the less I care. cheers...)

|2.26.08 @ 11:27AM|#

I have been following the stories and comments surrounding Eric Dondero, and frankly, I'm appalled. Why doesn't Eric try doing something constructive for once in his life? I assume you already know that in this crucial hour and under the treachery of our time, I must announce that we are indeed living in malicious times, but I have something more important to tell you. If he is incapable of discerning the mad ramblings of brusque ratbags from the wisdom and nuance embedded in a sage's discourse then I seriously doubt that he'll be capable of determining that by allowing him to turn a deaf ear to need and suffering, we are allowing him to play puppet master.

Eric will impose tremendous hardships on tens of thousands of decent, hard-working individuals in the immediate years ahead -- not necessarily by direct action, but by convincing his confreres to commit senseless acts of violence against anyone daring to challenge his sappy indiscretions. I might be able to forgive him, but only if he promises never again to threaten national security. Ten years ago, it was tasteless desperados. Today, it's what I call spleeny troglodytes who scar little children's self-image. And now, to end with a clever bit of doggerel: United we stand. Divided we fall. Eric Dondero's vulgar circulars will destroy us all.

|2.26.08 @ 11:34AM|#

How can anyone support a guy (Paul) who supports the TransTexas Corridor. Sure, he 'says' he is against it, but at the same time he is talking, he is sneaking in tens of millions of dollars in earmarks for it.

http://images.chron.com/content/news/photos/07/07/01/paul_earmarks/Transportation3.pdf

PC|2.26.08 @ 11:35AM|#

What picture would have been acceptable to the Cosmotarians? Is the only picture allowed white males with nefarious grins?

|2.26.08 @ 11:37AM|#

Why put a picture in at all?

You damn well know why.

tarran|2.26.08 @ 11:41AM|#

PC,

When Ron Paul stood up in debates and said illegal immigrants are being scapegoated as being responsible for the economic problems in the U.S., I respected him.

When he claimed that is the U.S. government would stop intervening in the U.S. economy, and stop plundering the wealth created by hard-working people living in the U.S., that immigrants would be welcomed with open arms once again, I agreed with him.

If this is an official mailer, then he is turning around and participating in the scapegoating.

So in answer to your question, no picture would have been acceptable to me.

PC|2.26.08 @ 11:42AM|#

No Joe I don't, that is why I posed the question. I also have not seen a post that would answer that question. I usually stay away from the topic altogether. There will never be an honest and intelligent discussion on race so I usually don't bother but am always curious as to what others think.

|2.26.08 @ 11:45AM|#

Why is Paul's immigration history in question? He has been almost in line with the OBL crowd like McCain up until he ran for President.

Ron Paul's Immigration Record
Source: http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=11832
URL Source: http://NumberUSA
Published: Oct 29, 2007
Author: Excerpted from : http://www.federalobser

Paul's Immigration Voting Record & Report Card on the NumbersUSA website:

(1) Paul consistently voted every year since 1999 against putting the military on the border:

2006: H. Amdt. 206 to H.R. 1815 2004: Goode Amendment to H.R. 4200 2003: Goode Amendment to H.R. 1588 2002: H. Amdt. 479 to H.R. 4546 2001: Traficant amendment to HR 2586 2000: Traficant amendment to H.R.4205 1999: Trafficant Amendment to H.R. 1401.

(2) Paul voted in 1997, 2001( H.R. 1885) and 2002 (H RES 365) to grant, extend or continue Section 245-i amnesties for illegal aliens.

(3) Paul voted NO on extending the voluntary Basic Pilot Workplace Verification Program (H.R. 2359),

(4) Paul voted NO on the border fence in 2005 (Hunter Amendment to HR 4437 - "Enforcement Only" Bill).

(5) Paul voted YES to increase H2-B (HR 763 in 2005) and H-1B visas (HR 3736 in 1998). In 1998, he voted to allow US firms to lay off Americans to replace them with foreigners.
TAKE NOTE:

(2) Paul voted in 1997, 2001( H.R. 1885) and 2002 (H RES 365) to grant, extend or continue Section 245-i amnesties for illegal aliens.

Everyone needs a reminder of some of Pauls BAD immigration votes.

Especially Item #2. This was an amnesty and allowed for chain migration, more visas, blah,blah, and one reason it has gotten as bad as it has. It was pushed by the White House.

H.R.3525 Title: To enhance the border security of the United States, and for other purposes. (introduced 12/19/2001) Related Bills: H.RES.365, H.R.1885, H.R.3205, S.CON.RES.106, S.1618, S.1749 Latest Major Action: Became Public Law No: 107-173 [GPO: Text, PDF] Note: On 3/12/2002, H.Res. 365 was agreed to by the House. H.Res. 365 incorporated the text of H.R. 3525, the Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Reform Act, in H.R. 1885, previously the Section 245(i) Extension Act dealing with certain immigration petition filing deadlines. Subsequent action on border security returned to H.R. 3525.

http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:HR03525:

The White House [snip]

H.R. 1885 - Section 245(i) Extension Act The Administration strongly supports House passage of H.R.1885 as expected to be considered on the House floor. H.R. 1885 would extend the window created under section 245(i) of the Immigration and Nationality Act during which qualified immigrants may obtain legal residence in the United States without being forced to first leave the country and their families for as long as several years. This legislation reflects the Administration's philosophy that government policies should recognize the importance of families and help to strengthen them.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/legislative/sap/107-2/HR1885-h.html

also:

Rep. Paul is a cosponsor of H.R. 793, the Save Our Small and Seasonal Business Act of 2005, to amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to limit the timing of issuance of H-2B visas during a fiscal year. Specifically, H.R. 793 would split the H-2B visa cap so no more than 33,000 visas are made available for the first six months the fiscal year, and another 33,000 visas would be available in the second half of the year. However, H.R. 793 exempts from the annual cap aliens granted an H-2B visa within three years prior to approval of an H-2B petition, thus potentially TRIPLING the number of H-2B workers in the United States at any one time. Although timing the issuance of H-2B visas is a common-sense approach that would help prevent the situation that occurred in FY 2004 and FY 2005 when the 66,000 annual cap on H-2B (low-skill) nonimmigrant visas was hit within the first quarter of the year, H.R. 793 would ultimately harm American workers by creating exemptions which potentially could triple the number of H-2B workers in the U.S. at any given time. Nearly doubled H-1B foreign high-tech workers in 1998

and

Voted on House floor against Hunter amendment to increase security with border fence in 2005 Rep. Paul voted against the Hunter Amendment to H.R. 4437, the Border Protection, Antiterrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005. The Hunter Amendment would shore up security by building fences and other physical infrastructure to keep out illegal aliens. Specifically, it mandates the construction of specific security fencing, including lights and cameras, along the Southwest border for the purposes of gaining operational control of the border. As well, it includes a requirement for the Secretary of Homeland Security to conduct a study on the use of physical barriers along the Northern border. The Hunter Amendment passed by a vote of 260-159.



______________________________

Now tell me honestly, if you replaced Paul's name with any other R, and saw this record versus what he wrote, what would you say about him?

PC|2.26.08 @ 11:45AM|#

Ok looks like we have a consensus. No picture at all for anything. If there is a crime that is discussed in a political mailer, no picture of humans are allowed. I just wanted to clear it up, I don't understand these complicated matters so I defer to other people's judgement.

tarran|2.26.08 @ 11:58AM|#

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you PC: today's walking embodiement of the saying,

"It's better to be silent and suspected to be a fool than to open it and to confirm it."

PC|2.26.08 @ 11:59AM|#

tarran,

No people seem irked by my question because their might be an element of truth in it.

tarran|2.26.08 @ 12:17PM|#

PC

The only "truth" you implied were that libertarians who are getting off the Ron Paul bandwagon only support mailers that incite prejudice against "white males with nefarious grins".

If you truly believe that's what's at work here, you are an idiot.

HEY JOE!

Sorry to shout. I have a question. Please before reading it, though, could you make sure you have no coffee or coke in your mouth and that you are sitting down.

Ready? Good.

Mr PC up above thinks that Reasonoids support inciting prejudice against white males. You are the closest thing to an outside expert on Reason style libertarianism, do you think that is a true statement?

|2.26.08 @ 12:21PM|#

PC,

Why was a picture of William Horton used in the famous anti-Dukakis ad?

I think you know why. And playing dumb is not only dishonest and and insult to your own intelligence, but incredibly transparent.

tarran, I don't think PC even believes that Reason is trying to whip up hostility against white males. It's just him shouting "Hey look over there!"

|2.26.08 @ 1:00PM|#

Now tell me honestly, if you replaced Paul's name with any other R, and saw this record versus what he wrote, what would you say about him?

As a libertarian, I would be relieved that his record on immigration isn't nearly as bad as I feared, since it is my only major area of disagreement with Ron Paul on the issues.

Why should the military be patrolling the border? Why does a free country want or need an East-German style border fence? Why should peaceful people not be allowed to live and work where they want to, as long as they don't increase the burden on the taxpayers?

|2.26.08 @ 1:14PM|#

What is the matter with all you people?
This picture is sadly showing what the fact of this whole matter on illegals.
If you are illegal, then get the hell out of our country and sign up at the front door.
Don't like this? Tough! We do not respect anyone who has hopped the fence and so be gone.
One picture tells a thousand words and this picture tells it like it is, the problem is that some people do not like to look at the truth in the eye.

|2.26.08 @ 1:22PM|#

Duderinos, it's real. Fellow Paul supporters, stop acting like retarded blind molerats and realize that the story isn't from Wonkette, but from Kirchick's blog on TNR. It looks like the campaign did mail this. It sucks. It was a bad decision. Just stop idolizing the guy and living in a fantasy world where he can do no wrong.

svf|2.26.08 @ 1:26PM|#

We do not respect anyone who has hopped the fence and so be gone.

truth be told, I kinda respect people who risk their lives to come here to work in our low-paying service and labor jobs more than I respect American citizens who would rather collect unemployment benefits and live off the fat of the land than take these jobs that are so far "beneath them"...

|2.26.08 @ 1:29PM|#

If you are illegal, then get the hell out of our country and sign up at the front door.

For the vast majority of illegal immigrants, there is no front door. The immigration quotas they fall under are paltry and allow for only a hundredth the demand.

What is your proposed solution to that problem?

|2.26.08 @ 1:50PM|#

MikeP..........I personally don't care how wide the front door is. I can't afford them, and neither can America.

NEWSFLASH......The U.S. is Bankrupt !!!!!

I'm sorry (really) they live in a piece of crap 3rd world country.

I don't want my country to turn out that way. It could be too late, especially in Texas.

tarran|2.26.08 @ 1:57PM|#

MikeP..........I personally don't care how wide the front door is. I can't afford them, and neither can America.

NEWSFLASH......The U.S. is Bankrupt !!!!!

I'm sorry (really) they live in a piece of crap 3rd world country.

I don't want my country to turn out that way. It could be too late, especially in Texas!

And, that, in a nutshell, is how some socialists view more people - not as potential producers of wealth but as more mouths to feed.

svf|2.26.08 @ 1:58PM|#

I can't afford them, and neither can America.

Barry... who's gonna work all those landscaping, fast food, meatpacking, farm labor, dishwashing, etc. jobs instead?

You? I didn't think so.

America would probably grind to a halt without those pesky illegal immigrants. For better or worse, our service and labor economies have grown dependent upon them, and therefore so have the rest of us.

Think about it.

|2.26.08 @ 2:13PM|#

I personally don't care how wide the front door is. I can't afford them, and neither can America.

How about this: Make the front door as wide as possible while excluding specific individuals who are specifically dangerous to the public.

Then don't give them anything when they get here.

If you issue them clear visas, then it will be pretty obvious who should not be living off government services for the poor.

|2.26.08 @ 2:20PM|#

I'm sorry (really) they live in a piece of crap 3rd world country.

I don't want my country to turn out that way. It could be too late, especially in Texas.

I also have to question your "(really)". You seem to

a. Not have a realistic impression of a third world country at all, thinking that Texas is an example.

b. Be willing to consign millions of people to life in the third world based on nothing more than your fears of what they might do to your country -- fears that can be refuted by theory, empiricism, and history.

I would think someone who was (really) sorry about the condition of his fellow man would seek to educate himself on how mutually voluntary association improves the lots of all.

|2.26.08 @ 2:26PM|#

I'm not against a certain amount of immigration, as long as it's legal.
We cannot afford to be the "savior" of the world, or even for Mexico, any longer.
I'm not sure what the answer is...........I just know we have to make choice between our children and their children.
They lose !!!

|2.26.08 @ 2:38PM|#

I'm not against a certain amount of immigration, as long as it's legal.

I gave you a proposal that makes virtually every immigrant legal. I gather by your qualification here that you fully agree with that proposal.

I just know we have to make choice between our children and their children.

Is the fact that your "our" appears to mean "people born in the US and people born elsewhere authorized by legislation passed by Congress and signed by the President" coincidence? Or do you really determine your moral categorization of humans that way?

|2.26.08 @ 3:39PM|#

MikeP.......your 1st comments;
a. In fact, parts of Texas are already on the way to that status. I've been to several 3rd world countries....I'm not confused.
b. Sorry....not my fault. My Great, great, great grandfather helped overthrow the most powerful empire in the world 230 years ago. If people in pieces of crap 3rd world countries want freedom bad enough, let them do the same thing. The problem is they aren't willing to fight for it, they want it given to them. (Not all of them, just most)I am wiling to fight to keep our sovereignty and liberties....I guess it was just bred into me.

I'm not against voluntary association....I'm against INVOLUNTARY ASSOCIATION.

Your front door would be way too wide.

FYI........."our" means a U.S. citizen, especially one who takes the time to read and understand the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights and is able to read it in English

|2.26.08 @ 4:02PM|#

Hope you guys enjoy the Pro-NAFTA Man who will fold to the global syndicate "Chris Peden" you criminal lovers!

Did RP commit a mental hate crime towards you for showing that the rest of the the world is turning a blind eye to the uncontrollable steam valve called illegal migration.
Mr. who cares about "la Raza", Mr. Don't google "Plan of San Diego"
Who's the gringo now buck o?

They can't overcome their own tyrannical government so we should subsidize our tax dollars for them to feel at home over here. You better wake up.

If we have threats from overseas, then we should be protecting our borders nationally and not continentally, thats Mexico's job, and Cubas job, etc. And not our job to police the world, Mr. post nine-eleven. Read your Constitution or did they teach you that was a sickness and a disease to feel patriotic Mr. "M.S.-13", Mr. I won't google "ENDGAME". Mr. stay in the dark with empty rants that never get verified so keep on feeling good like the soft creatures that you are for not examining the hard evidence, Mr. false democracy, you Hilary boot licker

Mr drink your fluoride and except the "global community" when we can't even stop our own "out of control" government servants, you think that these criminals should help the ho's of this world by consolidating national powers, forfeit our sovereignty and charge a global carbon tax?

Do your homework you globalist web-trolls!

|2.26.08 @ 4:13PM|#

Hey James Bogley, Jr.............don't sugar coat it, man.

James, a lot of them still don't get. It's serious business now.......this snowball is rolling downhill PRONTO, to the pit of hell if we don't get it, at least, slowed down.

This "Great American Experiment" (Thomas Jefferson) is going to fail if apathy and the continued worship at the foot of the "Golden Elephant" and the "Golden Donkey" continues.

James...the End Game is the real deal. Try it once, at least. We're living in the end game.

I'M MAD AS HELL AND I WON'T TAKE IT ANYMORE !!

|2.26.08 @ 4:25PM|#

Hey you pig-fucking racists out there, chill out, and stop giving libertarianism and Ron Paul a bad name by associating your worthless shitsack selves with him. There is no conceivable reason this mailer should have ever been sent out. Well ok, there are no good reasons this should have been sent out. Stop being apologists and take the blindfold off!

|2.26.08 @ 8:09PM|#

Sorry folks that postcard is a fake. Your wasting your time and making money for kirchuk

|2.26.08 @ 10:23PM|#

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1305819&postcount=10

Photoshop?

|2.26.08 @ 10:57PM|#

Well, I'm not so PC that I can't say this is right on. This is our country, people, let's protect what is is! So what if there's some shirtless dude on this postcard, what is really obscene is what is happening with our economy due to immigration.

|2.26.08 @ 11:58PM|#

I wrote to Ron Paul 2008 the word I got is that the postcard is a fake. If so there should be a correction. Actually they wrote:

'I'm not plugged into that part of the campaign, but the word I'm getting is that was a fake someone posted online. Guess they achieved their objective and most people thought it was real, as bad as it was.'

This is what we've got Mr Weigel - the Media you yourself and others righting falsehoods to keep Ron Paul out of power. You should be ashamed of yourself printing bogus materials. The way you can make up for it is to admit that Ron Paul should be president.

|2.27.08 @ 12:01AM|#

I wrote to Ron Paul 2008 the word I got is that the postcard is a fake. If so there should be a correction. Actually they wrote:

'I'm not plugged into that part of the campaign, but the word I'm getting is that was a fake someone posted online. Guess they achieved their objective and most people thought it was real, as bad as it was.'

This is what we've got Mr Weigel - the Media, you yourself, sillies like Randolph Carter, and others writing falsehoods to keep Ron Paul out of power. You should be ashamed of yourself printing bogus materials. The way you can make up for it is to admit that Ron Paul should be president.

|2.27.08 @ 12:46AM|#

Yeah ward, call me silly, I have no idea what's going on.

|2.27.08 @ 12:47AM|#

Trust me, I know a thing or two about the campaign.

|2.27.08 @ 10:22AM|#

Why hasn't Chris brought up the good doctor's involvement in the 1988 Libertarian Party embezzlement scandal? The good doctor was implicated as a recipiant of personal payments from campaign funds in the six figure range. Some very high level people in the Libertarian party went down in this, including the good doctor's own campaign director.

|2.27.08 @ 3:24PM|#

Ward: Who did you write to at the campaign? They have not replied to my inquiry.

|2.29.08 @ 5:37PM|#

shutup morons...complainin abt ADS...lol...look at the real thing...this guy speaks the truth and he has to be in congress as a check to the corporate politics in the house ...bad ads or good ads...am votin for him on the 4th...peden will be whipped by paul in the polls!!!