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CleanScapes Cleans Up
Remember that small Seattle sanitation company that was bidding for a huge city contract? The one whose founder/CEO dreams of tiny cameras to monitor whether or not people recycle their garbage?
If [CEO Chris] Martin is allowed to implement what he calls "my best idea, my get-people-riled-up thing," we could all soon be subject to a kind of garbage audit, too. He wants to bring the equivalent of the red-light camera to your front curb. Just as the traffic camera captures you running through a stoplight, CleanScapes' incriminating photos would catch you improperly disposing of a milk carton. (It belongs in the recycling bin.)
Yeah, keep laughing. They just won the contract.
Seattle hasn't determined what collection practices it might change, Martin said. CleanScapes has made some unorthodox proposals, though, including mandatory waste audits and mounting cameras on garbage trucks to monitor the improper disposal of hazardous wastes. It also proposed garbage trucks downtown running on compressed natural gas, to cut noise.
Woohoo!
|10.24.07 @ 11:36AM|#
What's the opposite of secession? Expulsion? There's got to be some way we can sell Seattle to Canada.
|10.24.07 @ 11:39AM|#
Warren, the PNW would happily be expulsed...you get to keep Bush
and Alabama...
Have fun with that.
wsdave|10.24.07 @ 11:41AM|#
What's the problem? If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have
nothing to fear.
Everybody drink!
|10.24.07 @ 11:44AM|#
Used to live in Seattle. They so, so deserve this.
That said, if the Pacific Northwest was expelled, I'd
probably go live there (not Seattle though).
And Warren, I'm pretty sure the opposite of secession is
unification.
|10.24.07 @ 11:47AM|#
I do think the camera thing is a hare-brained idea...btw.
But really, don't most people put their garbage in plastic bags
that are closed? How do you audit something that's closed. Maybe
Seattle doesn't do that and the garbage is open, but seems like
there'd be a lot od pictures of garbage bags.
I love the recycling though, it's cut my garbage down so low I only
get pick up once a month. The recycling container is huge, the
garbage one a third of the size. They don't take glass, but I haul
that somewhere once in a while. What's happened is I tend to not
buy products in glass.
|10.24.07 @ 11:58AM|#
appropriate?
I'd like to thank these nitwits for reminding me that I hate
fascist liberals even more than Republicans.
GILMORE|10.24.07 @ 11:58AM|#
Good lord.
Anything...ANYTHING to collect more $$ from everyday people.
I've realized recently that alternate-side parking in the NY
bouroughs is based mainly around revenue generation, not actual
management of space/traffic. Seriously. I live in a warehouse
neighborhood. There are whole blocks with no residential space at
all. Still, I end up paying probably $100 a month in tickets if im
out of town for more than 2 days.
Episiarch|10.24.07 @ 11:58AM|#
This will be priceless. I'm sure a ton of douchebags in Seattle
think this is a great, save-the-earth idea. And then they will
start getting pinched for idiotic infractions and the wailing and
gnashing of teeth will start.
I will look on with anticipation as they get the type of
eco-fanatic garbage collection they think they want, but actually
just want for other people.
Guy Montag|10.24.07 @ 12:08PM|#
I did not know that Seattle was run by a bunch of Republican
big-brother types! Wow, they are everyplace! Even in the bedroom
trying to register homosexual marriages!
Just you wait, the Seattle Republicans who rammed this garbage down
the throats of the people will be prosecuting homosexuals for
having sex without a license any day now.
|10.24.07 @ 12:11PM|#
Episiarch....keep in mind that recycling has been going on
around these parts for decades. Even in Podunk Oregon (I live in a
pretty rural area) there's benn voluntary recycling since the early
80's..for cardboard and metal then. And you had to do it
yourself.
Plus we had the bottle bill long before that (the 5 cent
thing..from a Republican no less).
The plastics have only kicked in recently, in the past
decade.
So for most people, it's already a habit around these parts. And it
does save on garbage bills...
Again, I think the cameras are hare-brained. The financial
incentive should be enough..not to mention I have a conservative
streak (in the REAL sense) to not waste things.
People want to throw gargabe willy nilly into landfills can forgo
the garbage servie and haul the garbage somewhere else unsorted to
their heart's content.
I just wish the millions of people who showed up in the PNW over
the last few decades would go back to where they came from. Maybe
tickets for milk cartons in the garbage will do it...praying for
permanant rain hasn't worked.
Seattle in particular, hell, all of Puget Sound and PDX, too wasn't
ready for the influx. I remember a time when the weren't traffic
jams on I-5...you want to crowd into an urban area you don't get to
play "rugged individualist"..that's what Idaho is for.
Urkobold™|10.24.07 @ 12:17PM|#
THE URKOBOLD HAS THIS TO SAY TO SEATTLE AND THE REST OF THE PACIFIC-NORTHWEST.
squarooticus|10.24.07 @ 12:21PM|#
I don't understand why recycling companies are allowed to
exploit my labor without paying me. If they want to resell my
glass, plastic, paper, etc. for profit, they can damn well mine my
garbage themselves at their own cost.
Here's a good solution: grind up the solid waste, combine it with a
suitable amount of yard waste, and allow it to compost. Then, one
could separate the solids (glass shards, plastic shreds, etc.),
recycle them for a profit, and sell the remaining compost as
fertilizer. All without me having to donate my time and effort to
some politically well-connected company with an incentive to
monitor my behavior for their own personal gain.
Mandatory recycling is worse than a tax: it is a transfer by
government to a private concern akin to eminent domain being used
to make space for a shopping mall.
wsdave|10.24.07 @ 12:22PM|#
Actually, the folks in Seattle are pretty good about recycling
already...at home. Where the issue comes in is at the
workplace.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't these guys pull a Freegan and
go dumpster diving (in shorts, no less) to find evidence, only to
come up with a pile of newspaper (wrapped in a plastic bag) that
should have been recycled?
See, in Seattle, if the container has "food" waste on it, it is
garbage and can't be recycled. So my idea is to take fresh dog poo,
smear it on newspaper, and wrap it tight in plastic. Then I'll
throw it in a dumpster and call in to the tip line to report it.
Since it has "food" waste, the dumpster owner is off the hook, and
hopefully the CleanScapes idiots get what they deserve.
|10.24.07 @ 12:27PM|#
Oh capelza, the eternal cry of "I was here first! You can't come
in!" or, "I moved here, but no one else should!" So I take it
you're anti-immigration, right? Or just anti-PNW immigration?
I've only been to Seattle once - LOVED it, but it was in
July-August so I don't think I made a fair judgment. People seemed
lovely, but I didn't tell anyone that I own guns, send my kid to a
parochial school and sometimes vote for Republicans so, again, I
don't think I had an opportunity for a realistic assessment of the
place. But I dug the weather and the water.
smartass sob|10.24.07 @ 12:33PM|#
So my idea is to take fresh dog poo, smear it on newspaper,
and wrap it tight in plastic.
Why dog poo? Why not cat poo? Or if you want to be real
nasty ...people poo?
Franklin Harris|10.24.07 @ 12:34PM|#
mandatory see through bags
This will run afoul of the plan to mandate that all Hefty bags be
made of paper.
Russ 2000|10.24.07 @ 12:38PM|#
What's happened is I tend to not buy products in
glass.
Lol. Glass is probably the most eco-friendly packaging
material.
|10.24.07 @ 12:40PM|#
Yeah..you busted me. A girl can dream, though. Hell, I supported
a Republican who told people to not move here..Tom McCall (I wasn't
old enough to vote yet). It's in the blood here.
It isn't like the PNW suddenly got "hippies" and has gone to
hell..it's had this "environmental" streak for a long time from
some Republicans even. Anyone who didn't know this wasn't paying
attention.
As for "liberals" owning guns in PNW...you'd be suprised how many
do here. We also have the least church-going population if I
remember correctly.
Seattle is still a great city...but it is hard to take when you are
at a dead stop, literally on 1-5. And as I said, if you want to
move to the PNW and be your libertarian bad self...move to Idaho or
eastern Oregon...if you want to live in a huge city...crammed to
the gills...then instead of bitching find one that doesn't have
rules.
If folks don't like it here..they can excerise that very American
choice and stay the hell away. I hear Atlanta is big on growth.
|10.24.07 @ 12:42PM|#
Living in seattle, I'm super excited for big brother to get busy. He's already out and about (http://pics.livejournal.com/cigarette_pizza/pic/000cg2x9) now it's time to get to work!
JBinMO|10.24.07 @ 12:45PM|#
"will be prosecuting homosexuals for having sex without a
license any day now"
The only possible outcome of what you are talking about is a
"non-liscencee" fetish.
Guy Montag|10.24.07 @ 12:53PM|#
Mandatory recycling is worse than a tax:
Mandatory recycling is slavery.
Wordsmith of URKOBOLD|10.24.07 @ 12:58PM|#
AND SLAVERY IS BAD. AND WRONG.
WE NEED A STRONGER WORD. BADONG. YES. SLAVERY IS BADONG.
wsdave|10.24.07 @ 1:19PM|#
smartass,
"Why dog poo? Why not cat poo? Or if you want to be real nasty
...people poo?"
Well, I have a dog...and my shit don't stink.
|10.24.07 @ 1:27PM|#
Capelza - It's not like I don't sympathize. I live in a city of
5 million and traffic is a constant and constantly growing worry,
and as this city (Houston) will never have an adequate public
transit system (and I'm a part of the problem) it's only going to
get worse cos people keep showing up. And we're not even pretty or
hip, like the PNW. We're just cheap, employed and business
friendly. And I don't think our recyling habits are all that great
- I haven't seen statistics on it.
But we are somewhat - only somewhat, mind you -a little more
resistant to Big Brother and the Monitoring Company.
|10.24.07 @ 1:31PM|#
"People want to throw gargabe willy nilly into landfills can
forgo the garbage servie and haul the garbage somewhere else
unsorted to their heart's content."
They haul their garbage into the mountains on weekends. I live in
the Sierras and piles of garbage, tires and appliances have filled
many small canyons. As garbage regulations increase in the cities
so do the garbage piles in the country.
Rhywun|10.24.07 @ 1:34PM|#
I've realized recently that alternate-side parking in the NY
bouroughs is based mainly around revenue generation, not actual
management of space/traffic.
Actually, it's based around street cleaning.
|10.24.07 @ 1:38PM|#
stubby...
Believe me..I am not fond of the "we know what's best for you
crowd"...
But the ones I tend to owrry about are the chrisitanists who move
here and want to go all Southern on us with THEIR invasions of
privacy.
We fought for years with one yahoo and his group who used the "OMGZ
the Gays!!1" to get his foot in the door. He also opposed choice
and contrception, he just never stressed that or that women should
be in submission to men. Ballot intiative after ballot
iniative...
Recycling is kind of part of the region so this doesn't freak me
out like the religious wackos do. So while Houston may not, I don't
know, have that problem..I find Texas amongst others to be not that
Libertarian on social issues...I'd be happy to sort my milk cartons
from my garbage (I already do anyway when i don't reuse them) as
long as I don't have some religious jerk telling me that my
daughter can't make choices for her own body.
Geographer of URKOBOLD|10.24.07 @ 1:40PM|#
"Well, I have a dog...and my shit don't stink."
but your fucking knowledge of geography certainly does. Bulgaria.
wow.
|10.24.07 @ 1:52PM|#
"Joe Naborz | October 24, 2007, 1:31pm | #
"People want to throw gargabe willy nilly into landfills can forgo
the garbage servie and haul the garbage somewhere else unsorted to
their heart's content."
They haul their garbage into the mountains on weekends. I live in
the Sierras and piles of garbage, tires and appliances have filled
many small canyons. As garbage regulations increase in the cities
so do the garbage piles in the country.
"
Hell, people have been doing that forever...it was/is easier to
dump it in the woods than pay a fee at the landfill. I honestly
don't think you can blame "regulation" for that but rather some
people don't want to pay for garabge service.
And you will see more and more..because..wait for it..there are
more and more people. Since the year of my birth, the population in
this country has nearly doubled...there's going to be more garbage.
And more people choosing to dump it in the woods rather than
pay.
wsdave|10.24.07 @ 2:03PM|#
URK,
"but your fucking knowledge of geography certainly does. Bulgaria.
wow."
Yeah, but it's better now. Besides, I have other skills...
Yakama Native American|10.24.07 @ 2:07PM|#
Hey capelza. Get the fuck out of our land. We were here before all y'all white fucks.
Paul|10.24.07 @ 2:15PM|#
Oh hey, I know something about this guy. His process is to leave
trash bags in the alleys. He claims he picks them up regularly and
they're safter than dumpsters (which attract crime). Except many
residents complain that the bags get torn open by seagulls and
create a rat problem. He counters this by saying that his trash
pickup service is more regular and therefore the bags don't stay
around long.
There is an alley downtown where the dumpster 'crime' problem has
been solved, and several cop acquaintences I have claim it's the
safest alley in the downtown core and that's WITH dupsters. They
bathe the alley in the "light of god" by placing electric lights
throughout, and they pipe "it's a small world" (very quietly) on a
looping track. This is enough to drive even sane people crazy and
the alley is absolutely clear. I walked by it the other night. I
would hold a cub-scout meeting in that alley at 3am and never be
worried one bit about it.
|10.24.07 @ 2:15PM|#
I've never understood why people move someplace very different from their home, and then proceed to try to turn it into a place just like home. I understand not wanting to have to leave one place for another, but sometimes you gotta do it. Expecting to remake the new neighbors in your image is stupid. Religious conservatives who can't coexist with non-religious non-conservatives should stay off the left coast and out of the PNW. PNW and left coast lefties should avoid the South, even the urban and econmically vibrant South. Don't move to Houston if you are offended by God, guns, or greed (gays are quite happy here - we're very purple). Don't move from Pakistan to Amsterdam and get pissed off cos people do drugs and let women run around loose. Much of the world's problems could be solved if the changephobic would stay the hell home.
Paul|10.24.07 @ 2:22PM|#
But really, don't most people put their garbage in plastic
bags that are closed? How do you audit something that's closed.
Maybe Seattle doesn't do that and the garbage is open, but seems
like there'd be a lot od pictures of garbage bags.
Capelza, currently trash pickup is already audited, just not to the
extent that this guy wants. The current system works like
thus:
Pickup crews open the lid to your can, if they see obviously
recylable materials at the top of the can (stack of newspapers,
filled with free aluminum cans) then they give you a "warning". If
this continues to occur, eventually they stop pickup up your
garbage and you have to appeal to the city to have your pickup
reinstated.
I wanted to make a bumper sticker with Greg Nickels' photo on it
(mayor of Seattle) and have written: "I just saw this man going
through your garbage!"
Much of the world's problems could be solved if the
changephobic would stay the hell home.
Stubby:
to quote one of my favorite libertarians: "Doin' right ain't got no
end."
wsdave|10.24.07 @ 2:23PM|#
Paul,
"I would hold a cub-scout meeting in that alley at 3am and never be
worried one bit about it."
The parents might wonder, though... :P
wsdave|10.24.07 @ 2:26PM|#
stubby,
"Much of the world's problems could be solved if the changephobic
would stay the hell home."
World fuckin' peace in one sentence. Best thing I've read in a
while.
Paul|10.24.07 @ 2:28PM|#
The parents might wonder, though... :P
Ok, then a Brownie meeting. Nno, wait, that's not right
either...
URKOBOLD\'s Pepperpot|10.24.07 @ 2:29PM|#
CAREFUL! EDDIE MIGHT CRASH THIS! HE'S A THIRD DEGREE WHITE BELT (HIGHEST CLASSIFICATION) IN DONDER-KWAN-OOOOOOO
|10.24.07 @ 2:29PM|#
Paul..that's interesting, thanks.
My little burg is all automated now..the garbage guy never gets out
of his rig..some big mechanical arm picks up the container and
dumps it.
I think it's the same for the recycling bin, though they must be
more up on that, because my neighbour kept putting glass in it and
the guy came by his house to explain to him that broken glass
really sucked for the sorters...
Paul|10.24.07 @ 2:30PM|#
What's so funny about this, is that it's Seattle "liberals" who want government agencies to have the authority to search through your trash... *pause for irony*
Paul|10.24.07 @ 2:32PM|#
My little burg is all automated now..the garbage guy never
gets out of his rig..some big mechanical arm picks up the container
and dumps it.
Hmm, must not have a union. I believe that Seattle has to have 24
people on each truck. You know, for...safety or something.
|10.24.07 @ 2:35PM|#
Paul...yeah, it's a one man operation. Used to be two when it was manual. but I talked to the driver who is a friend and he said they weren't having to lay anyone off...more trucks maybe, separate for the recycling bins?
Jennifer|10.24.07 @ 3:42PM|#
What's so funny about this, is that it's Seattle "liberals"
who want government agencies to have the authority to search
through your trash... *pause for irony*
Nothing funny at all. The only difference between modern liberals
and modern conservatives is which excuse they'll use to take your
freedom away. Liberals steal freedom in order to Save The Earth,
Protect Your Health, or For The Children (post-birth);
conservatives steal freedom to Make America Strong, Protect
American Morality, or For The Children (pre-birth).
DannyK|10.24.07 @ 4:05PM|#
Hey, it's a private company. The market will take care of
everything.
And other than the Orwellian trash-cams, most of what they offer is
pretty sensible if you take recycling seriously. And quieter
garbage trucks aren't crazy at all.
Or is it that "...in Seattle!" is the new laugh-line? As in, "That
could only happen... in Seattle! Now here's Tom with the
weather."
|10.24.07 @ 4:14PM|#
And other than the Orwellian trash-cams, most of what they
offer is pretty sensible if you take recycling
seriously.
Isn't most recycling still economically unviable? Doesn't that mean
that it consumes more resources to recycle than to do it new? Which
leads me to ask - why should I take it seriously if it doesn't
achieve its sole justification for being?
|10.24.07 @ 4:39PM|#
R C Dean
As the price of petroleum goes up, the viability of plastics
recycling gets cheaper in comparison.
The big money, lest round here is paper..one of the pulp mills has
converted to paper recycling.
The local sanitation service used to make a bundle on paper..took a
hit on the plastics. Not so sure now..about the plastics being so
expensive to recycle. Volume and business opportunities and new
techniques are there waiting for the enterprising business
person.
Jay|10.24.07 @ 4:59PM|#
Jennifer-
That's really good! Can I use that?
Please forward your address to me so I know where to send the
royalty checks...
|10.24.07 @ 5:18PM|#
Seattle is pretty good about recycling
Oh, that's cute. And since when was being "pretty good about
recycling" good enough?
This is about the PLANET - "Pretty good?" Pretty fucking
good?
PRETTY MOTHERFUCKING GOOD IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH-- YOU MUST RECYCLE
EVERYTHING PROPERLY. IN ITS PROPER CONTAINER. CLEANED AND READY TO
BE RETURNED TO MOTHER GAIA - MOTHER GAIA WHOM YOU WILL NOT
OFFEND.
Paul|10.24.07 @ 6:22PM|#
Hey, it's a private company. The market will take care of
everything.
DannyK, when the government awards you a monopoly contract, you're
no longer private.
Paul|10.24.07 @ 6:25PM|#
Isn't most recycling still economically unviable?
A lot of it is. If recycling were a slam-dunk, then recycling would
probably start spontaneously by private companies specializing in
recycled goods. Since government controls, mandates and executes
most recycling (yes, often with a government awarded monopoly) then
it's hard to gauge if it's working and saving the planet as opposed
to just causing more pollution somewhere else.
Anonymous|10.25.07 @ 1:19AM|#
I know the person who runs the Seattle recycling program and its
compliance. The individual is what I would call Libertarian. It's
my understanding that they never issue fines even when it's obvious
folks aren't complying. Instead they opt for education and it works
more often than not because people appreciate the fact that they
weren't forced. Seattle once led the country in recycling. Now it's
down behind places like San Francisco. It's a good thing to do and
not all folks stuck in government drone jobs are drones. Some
actively work on improving things from all possible angles.
Also, the story mentions unorthodox practices like cameras on the
trucks. The old trucks all have cameras so don't take the rest of
the info at face value.
|10.25.07 @ 10:47AM|#
Most municipalities charge for waste removal either as a part of
property taxes or an annual fee. My college town, possibly to shift
costs as much as possible to non-voting college residents, used a
trash-tag system (one tag per bag, two tags for a trash can; sold
by the sheet, maybe $.75 or $1 per tag, though that was years
ago... quite a scam on 13 gal "kitchen" bags, btw). However,
recycling was free.
There you have it, a market based solution that appropriately
captures some of the environmental externalities of consumption,
and also creates value for the end-user for recycling. And, if you
don't want to play along with trash tags, you can hire a dumpster
service (as some collegetown landlords would do) without being
double-charged for waste removal via taxes.
More cities should do this.
Chris Martin|10.25.07 @ 11:36AM|#
CleanScapes here - appreciate the comments. The camera idea actually will save businesses tons of money by ensuring that their vendors (janitors etc) are actually using the right containers. And yes recycle goes in clear bags. There is no plan to monitor residential recycle since Seattle residents already recycle most of their material. Finally our trucks already have the cameras for safety and risk management reasons. This use provides some return on the investment.
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