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Uncle Joe is Watching You
Via
ThinkProgress, Joe Lieberman is using the small-bore terrorist
plots in the UK as a rationale for more domestic spying. Never mind
that the plots that were stopped were snuffed out via
old-fashioned police work. He wants to "end the partisanship"
and get both parties to endorse greater government wiretapping
powers, and he wants cameras on every corrner:
The Brits have got something smart going in England and it was part of, I believe, why they were able to so quickly apprehend suspects in the terrorist acts over the weekend. And that is they have cameras all over London and other of their major cities. We've got some in NY, we've got an extensive program beginning in Chicago. I think it's just common sense to do that here much more widely. And of course we can do it without compromising anybody's real privacy.
Well, that's good. But the U.K.'s got more surveillance cameras per person than country in the world and it's not helping them prevent terrorist attacks. It's helping them mop up the damage afterwards and chase down the perps. We don't have nearly as many cameras as the U.K., and yet we've had no terrorist attacks since 9/11. Thus, we need more surveillance cameras.
More Lieberman:
This is about the security of our country and our people with an enemy that is prepared to attack us again and again here at home.
Lieberman must think a victory in Iraq would do nothing to retard or halt terrorists' penetration inside this country—we're still in Iraq because we can't let them "follow us home," remember? So his arguments boil down:
1)We must stay in Iraq to defeat the terrorists.
2)We must empower our law enforcement to spy on/defeat the
terrorists.
3)That ain't gonna stop the terrorists.
If the most dangerous place in Washington is between Chuck Schumer and a camera, the most dangerous job is laundering Joe Lieberman's perpetually damp bedsheets.
jet|7.1.07 @ 3:04PM|#
These comments from a man who was one Supreme Court vote away from the Vice President's office. He makes Dick Cheney look like a civil libertarian.
|7.1.07 @ 3:29PM|#
I believe, why they were able to so quickly apprehend suspects in the terrorist acts over the weekend.
This is the problem supporters of the surveilance state always
stagger by without noticing. Cameras are generally only good for
catching things after the fact.
They don't provide any help in preventing terror attacks. They just
provide a false sense of security.
Randolph Carter|7.1.07 @ 3:30PM|#
Didn't you get the memo from Cheney? We haven't had any attacks since 9/11 because of the extraconstitutional spying and data mining. Jeez.
Ron Hardin|7.1.07 @ 4:06PM|#
Lieberman is a little wrong and a little right.
The wrong part is that preventing terrorist attacks doesn't need to
be high priority. To lose a crowd in a mall isn't a big deal except
to the media, which will keep it on TV for weeks, finding bereaved
families, can it happen here stories, steps you can take stories,
finger of blame stories, and so forth. As George Carlin said before
9/11, terrorism is basically entertainment.
What you do have to prevent is any organization pulling off a
seriously damaging attack. To do this, they need to be of a certain
size ; but the bigger an organization gets, the easier it is to
detect and defeat, though its activities and through defectors. The
trick is to track and harass organizations so that the biggest
organization you miss is smaller than it has to be to pull off a
seriously bad attack. In fact, we seem to have achieved that, so
far.
The larger global strategy is to make sure that no state fails to
harass terrorist organizations, to similarly limit their activities
to media events only. Iraq is one such place.
But domestically, all that tracking and surveillance is useful in
limiting the size of any operation, and for that Lieberman's
right.
|7.1.07 @ 4:07PM|#
TJIT,
To be fair, they can also alert the authorities to suspicious
activity before an attack occurs. Of course, that only applies if
there are actually people watching the cameras.
This is why I support having video-only cameras watching
public places with the feeds available to anyone over the
Intartubes. That'll help make sure there are eyeballs watching
and make it difficult for the authorities to cover up
their own misdeeds.
|7.1.07 @ 4:13PM|#
But, I will agree with the general consensus that Lieberman is a
statist gerbil-muncher. I was watching This Week this morning, and
he was decrying the fact that there are Republican candidates
opposed to the party base on abortion and immigration, but no Dems
opposed to the party base on the war. (He notably failed to mention
the Republican candidate opposing the base on the war.)
Seriously, it sounds like he's running for Deacon of the
Bipartisan Party these days.
|7.1.07 @ 4:17PM|#
Crimethink-
Lieberman, a bit like John McCain, tends to have the worst
tendencies of both parties. Hes bi-partisan in the absolute worst
sense of the word.
|7.1.07 @ 4:19PM|#
no one believed her,,,but hillary said she would not run for president when she was trying to win reelection to the senate,,the fact that it is so not newsworthy is interesting to me.
|7.1.07 @ 4:32PM|#
The government recently introduced speaking CCTV cameras. In
April, Blair's home secretary, John Reid, announced that the
government would spend close to £1 million on fitting loudspeakers
on to cameras in 20 areas around Britain. Faceless operators based
in CCTV bunkers will use microphones to bark orders at those of us
who litter or loiter or commit crimes.
Although I'm not one of those assholes who get touchy over every
little offense (you know, those usually middle aged guys who get
into shoting matches at Burger King over not including tomatoes in
their burgers) but if I litter in the street and a guy from the
camera yells at me, I'd absoluetly go ape shit. Like flipping over
trash, yelling at the camera, flipping birds at everyone
ape-shit.
|7.1.07 @ 4:47PM|#
Hell, re-reading that entire article I think that if I lived in London I would spend my entire time aimlessly raging through the streets yelling hysterically on the top of my lungs.
|7.1.07 @ 4:51PM|#
Hell, re-reading that entire article I think that if I lived
in London I would spend my entire time aimlessly raging through the
streets yelling hysterically on the top of my lungs.
Theres a guy who does that in my city without any
cameras.
Middle Aged Guy in Burger King|7.1.07 @ 4:56PM|#
The shouting doesn't start until they tell you they can't
replace the tomatoeless burger because you already took a bite out
of it.
Or when you pay with a 20 and the cashier gives you change for a
ten which you point out as the money is handed over and the drawer
is still open.....
yet she shuts the drawer and gets the manager who says they have to
count down the drawer and can't do it until the end of the
rush.
Shouting solves both problems, as does seconding their threat to
call the police.
All problems are solved by not eating at Burger King or most fast
food outlets.
|7.1.07 @ 5:13PM|#
I was standing next to a guy like that at Burger King and I
asked him about why he was recating that way and he basicly nearly
yelled at me saying "do you think that this is exceptable?"
It was like he was alone in the world in his pain of getting the
heel of the tomato, and he wan't about to take the abuse
anymore.
|7.1.07 @ 5:19PM|#
To be fair, his rage probally stems from the fact that his son has a nose ring, his wife hasn't slept with him in a week, and the boundless energy of his youth propelled him into a world where he is obsolete and resented, and not so much BK's poor quality.
|7.1.07 @ 5:29PM|#
What in the hell do cameras matter to people who are on suicide missions? As all of us know, Jew Lieberman and his bipartisan goon squads want to be seen as coming to the rescue in the absence of any real threat. Feckless, totalitarian rubbish!
abdul|7.1.07 @ 5:29PM|#
But the U.K.'s got more surveillance cameras per person than
country in the world and it's not helping them prevent terrorist
attacks. It's helping them mop up the damage afterwards and chase
down the perps.
Mopping up the damage afterwards and chasing down the perps does
help prevent future attacks. Banks, convenience stores, etc.
wouldn't use them if they didn't help apprehend criminals.
Apprehending the offender helps to deter potential offenders.
I don't like the idea of a surveillance state, where the only
privacy I have is in my home, but surveillance cameras do prevent
crimes. However, that's because I value privacy and freedom above
security. If all you care about is security, then Joe Lieberman is
right.
|7.1.07 @ 5:32PM|#
The thing to do at BK is this: if the offending presence is female, ask her, with a straight face "can I touch your meat curtains?"
Randolph Carter|7.1.07 @ 5:32PM|#
Mr. Poop Monkey,
I resent the antisemitism inherent in your phrase, "Jew Lieberman."
Everyone knows that the right way to do it is "JOOOOOS!
Lieberman."
|7.1.07 @ 5:36PM|#
Abdul ... take a look at the post above yours ... The "I want to plug-Mohammed's-hole in Paradise!" crowd is intent on blowing themselves into pieces. Though this sometimes fails, they are freqently successful in this venture. Thus, cameras do NOTHING. No prevention, no apprehended perpetrator afterwards.
Middle Aged Guy in Burger King|7.1.07 @ 5:40PM|#
HEEL of the TOMATO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fuckin' manager is going to get a deep-fryer manicure if he balks
at gettin' me a NEW WHOPPER
as of FIVE Fuckin' minutes ago.
Seriously, don't let them rip you off. Start out very politely.
Then ask for the manager. Only raise your voice when they say they
can't/won't do anything.
|7.1.07 @ 5:42PM|#
Hell, re-reading that entire article I think that if I lived
in London I would spend my entire time aimlessly raging through the
streets yelling hysterically on the top of my lungs.
Would you shout and scream, and kill the king, and rail at all his
servants? 'Cause you know, in sleepy London Town, there's no place
for a street fighting man.
Think the time is right for palace revolution, but where I live the
game to play is compromise solution.
|7.1.07 @ 5:50PM|#
BK is a Jewish Conspiracy, along with Communism, The State Department, The CIA, Hillary Clinton, Section 8 housing, MTV post-1995, Hurricane Katrina, asbestos, Al Sharpton's hair, 1-ply toilet paper, the new 7UP, The Star Wars "prequels",and Reason magazine.
|7.1.07 @ 5:52PM|#
To lose a crowd in a mall isn't a big deal except to the
media
Or perhaps to the people who are part of that crowd, or indeed
their loved ones.
This brand of aloof utilitarian caluculus is the hallmark of people
who have no business looking after my safety, nor my liberty.
|7.1.07 @ 5:54PM|#
HEEL of the TOMATO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fuckin' manager is going to get a deep-fryer manicure if he balks
at gettin' me a NEW WHOPPER
as of FIVE Fuckin' minutes ago.
Seriously, don't let them rip you off. Start out very politely.
Then ask for the manager. Only raise your voice when they say they
can't/won't do anything.
If I ask polietly, and don't carry around with me an obnoxious
sense of entitlement, then the problem will 99.999% of the time be
taken care of. If not, then I realize that I am spending about $5
of my money and 20 minuets of my time being served by people
earning minium wage and realize that fighting tooth and nail to get
a burger exactly how I want it isn't really that fucking
important.
|7.1.07 @ 5:57PM|#
Hohensee ... 20 minuets of my time is precious ... tends to wear down my ballerina slippers and toe-shoes.
Windypundit|7.1.07 @ 6:16PM|#
Start out very politely. Then ask for the manager. Only
raise your voice when they say they can't/won't do
anything.
Jeez, be careful. Remember, you're planning to eat what they give
you. You really don't want to piss off the people who are preparing
your food. And I don't want to join you for lunch if you do.
|7.1.07 @ 6:31PM|#
Not to absolutely obsess on this topic, but does anyone else not really care if someone does something to your food? When it comes to someone spitting in food, to me it's out of sight, out of mind.
Edward|7.1.07 @ 9:38PM|#
Wait, the surveilance cameras have helped track down the perps in the UK attacks, haven't they? Don't all bank machines have surveilance cameras? What about Candid Camera? Helluva good show. I think we have to learn to live with surveilance cameras. Unless you're up to no good, why should you care? What are libertarians doing they don't want anybody to see? Hmmmmmm?
|7.1.07 @ 10:03PM|#
What are libertarians doing they don't want anybody to see?
Hmmmmmm?
Well, right now, nothing.
But put me in front of a camera, and I'll be doing plenty of things
you don't want to see....
Trust me on this one!
Paul|7.1.07 @ 10:49PM|#
Well, I've got cameras in my house and I haven't had any
terrorist attacks in my living room. So there, Mr. Dave Fancypants
Weigel.
What are libertarians doing they don't want anybody to see?
Hmmmmmm?
Oh how far we've come. I remember it was conservatives who fronted
this argument against liberals back when I was a kid. Let me guess,
Edward, you vote a predominantly Democratic ticket.
Alice Bowie|7.1.07 @ 11:00PM|#
Joe Lieberman will STOP AT NOTHING to keep this country (and
it's government) SUPPORTING ISRAEL. We (US, UK, Israel) haven't had
a day of Peace since 1947.
I luv Jewish People. But I don't support the Any Means
Necessary attitude in support for Israel. If People like Joe and
the Hard-line Israeles are willing to DO WHATEVER it takes to keep
the JEWISH state in existance (including the potential death of
Many fine Israelis AND POSSIBLY American Citizens)...then they are
JUST as SUICIDAL and CRAZY as their Muslims ememies.
Please Joe (and people like u), nothing good has come from this.
Israel is in the HEART...and not a country in mist of those
ridiculous Rock Throwing, airplane crashing into window, car
bombing, and possibly some day...Nuclear Bomb using MUSLIM
SAVAGES.
M|7.1.07 @ 11:04PM|#
I think the drugstore mixed up my surveillance camera's film with someone else's.
Alice Bowie|7.1.07 @ 11:07PM|#
STOP Pissing on the Muslims...and we WON'T need the:
- Camera on Every Corner
- The elimination of Public Trash Bins
- The strip search of every Grayed hair
Grandma that flys
Abandon Israel...Bring the Israelis HERE to America.
The Israelis are EXTREMLY resourcefull people. In just 70
years...or so, they've changed a DESSERT into a FIRST WORLD
Paradise.
DON'T wait for some savage with a NUCLEAR BOMB to end it. The
Occupation was WRONG in the 1st place...We know that 2 b true WHY?
b-cause we haven't had a day of peace since 1947...The the ATTACKS
are GETTING worst.
And the 'GET tough on Terrorist' Crap isn't
working. It's real easy to 'GET tough on
Terrorist' when it's not YOUR LOVED ONES on the BUS they
hijacked.
Come to AMerica...Jews are More than Welcomed here. We're willing
to Absorb nearly 12 million MEXICANS...Why not Jews.
V|7.1.07 @ 11:10PM|#
Loudspeakers on the cameras?
It's like London as seen in V for Vendetta.
We won't truly be safe until we have vehicles patrolling the
streets that are equipped with listening devices that work through
walls.
Alice Bowie|7.1.07 @ 11:14PM|#
I say...why Stop with Cameras on the STREET??
We should have them inside and outside every public and private
area...including:
- Restrooms
- Peoples Homes
- The confessionals at Church
Since NOBODY should be breaking any laws or doing anything
wrong...NOBODY should have a problem.
Randolph Carter|7.2.07 @ 12:07AM|#
Isn't it COLD, quite cold out THERE BOWIE?
Do YOU need my JUMPER Bowie?
Does the SPACE COLD do funny things to your NIPPLES, making them
all POINTY?
Bowie.
Do you use your POINTY NIPPLES as telescopic ANTENNAE transmitting
data BACK to EARTH?
Data back to Earth d-d-do, d-d-do, do do
I bet you do you FREAKY OLD BASTARD you
Randolph Carter|7.2.07 @ 12:09AM|#
BOWIE do you have one really FUNKY SEQUINED space suit,
Bowie?
Or do you have SEVERAL ch-ch-ch-ch- CHANGES?
Doubting Thomas|7.2.07 @ 9:23AM|#
This is the problem supporters of the surveilance state
always stagger by without noticing. Cameras are generally only good
for catching things after the fact. They don't provide any help in
preventing terror attacks.
Are you actually saying that catching the culprits does not prevent
them from trying again on a later date? That's mind-bogglingly
stupid. The cameras may not prevent the original attack but
evidence gleaned from them can and does derail subsequent
attacks.
LarryA|7.2.07 @ 12:34PM|#
And of course we can do it without compromising anybody's
real privacy.
"Real" privacy. Weasel.
Apprehending the offender helps to deter potential
offenders.
1) Not exactly. The Brits are very good at "apprehending"
offenders, but they refuse to send them to prison or otherwise
encourage them to change their ways. As a result Britain's crime
rate is going through the roof.
2) "Apprehending" presumes they're going to be around to apprehend.
I can just see the instructor at Suicide Bombing Academy saying,
"If you detonate in front of a camera, they'll show your martyrdom
on Infidel News."
|7.2.07 @ 2:07PM|#
I will support Comrade Joe's suggestion on one condition.
All members of government have to have survellience cameras
installed in their offices, homes, cars, and any other location
they frequent including restaurants and dining establishments.
Also, all members of the government must be wired with recording
devices at all times.
This is, of course, to ensure their security and safety. As far as
any potential incriminating evidence these devices might record,
well, Senators, as many of you are so fond of saying, "You have
nothing to fear, if you have nothing to hide."
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