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The Malaria/DDT War — Part MCLXXXVIII
In a Wall Street Journal op/ed, the director general of health services for the Republic of Uganda, Sam Zaramba, asks Western environmentalists to get out of the way and let his country use DDT to save people's lives. To wit:
Although Uganda's National Environmental Management Authority has approved DDT for malaria control, Western environmentalists continue to undermine our efforts and discourage G-8 governments from supporting us. The EU has acknowledged our right to use DDT, but some consumer and agricultural groups repeat myths and lies about the chemical. They should instead help us use it strictly to control malaria.
Environmental leaders must join the 21st century, acknowledge the mistakes Carson made, and balance the hypothetical risks of DDT with the real and devastating consequences of malaria. Uganda has demonstrated that, with the proper support, we can conduct model indoor spraying programs and ensure that money is spent wisely, chemicals are handled properly, our program responds promptly to changing conditions, and malaria is brought under control.
And for what it's worth, the World Health Organization has also approved the indoor use of DDT for controlling malaria mosquitoes.
Whole WSJ op/ed here.
Episiarch|6.13.07 @ 1:19PM|#
Hey, you can't let saving millions of lives get in the way of saving some birds. Get with the program, Sam.
|6.13.07 @ 1:33PM|#
Not to take away from the value of DDT, but there's this nut-job
Right-winger Jim Quinn on morning radio in Pittsburgh who claims to
have played in the clouds of passing DDT trucks as a child.
Based on his ideas, it shows...
|6.13.07 @ 1:54PM|#
but there's this nut-job Right-winger Jim Quinn on morning
radio in Pittsburgh who claims to have played in the clouds of
passing DDT trucks as a child.
And what study exactly shows that DDT causes brain development
disorders in children Taktix?
This guys may be a nut job...but that had absolutely nothing to do
with him breathing in clouds of DDT as a child.
But keep it up with your left wing environmental propaganda...i
mean you have only killed about 20 million poor people with those
lies...you still have a couple billion to go.
|6.13.07 @ 2:00PM|#
Although Uganda's National Environmental Management
Authority has approved DDT for malaria control, Western
environmentalists continue to undermine our efforts and
discourage G-8 governments from supporting us. The EU has
acknowledged our right to use DDT, but some consumer and
agricultural groups repeat myths and lies about the
chemical.
Names, please?
|6.13.07 @ 2:14PM|#
I agree withe minister's recommendations. Responsible DDT use
needs to be a part of malaria protection efforts in Africa. But I
couldn't help but notice his statement that the West needs to
"acknowledge the mistakes Carson made?"
The spraying regime Zaramba recommends - no agricultural use,
reserve DDT for the protection of human populations, spray as
little as possible - is exactly that recommended by Carson in
"Silent Spring."
I wonder Mr. Zaramba got his faulty information about Carson's book
from - exactly the same faulty information about Carson's book that
has been repeatedly posted on this web site, in the WSJ editorial
page, and has appeared in the columns of conservative newspaper
writers across the U.S.
joshua corning,
"i mean you have only killed about 20 million poor people with
those lies"
Maybe you should, you know, RTFA. As the minister acknowledges, the
ban on agricultural use of DDT is the reason that it remains useful
in controlling malaria today, by preventing and reversing the
spread of DDT-resistance in mosquitoes.
Why do you want Africans to be helpless in fighting off malaria,
joshua? Why?
|6.13.07 @ 2:17PM|#
joe - is there a concise excerpt from Silent Spring that pushes the "no agricultural use, reserve DDT for the protection of human populations, spray as little as possible" line?
Tim Lambert|6.13.07 @ 2:22PM|#
alkali, their names are Mr and Mrs Western Environmentalist,
who, as every knows, basically control the G8 governments. Who can
forget the 50% cut in CO2 emissions they forced on the US last
year? Bush didn't want to do it, but he had to give in to the
all-powerful environmentalists.
If you read the article, you'll notice that spraying is a rather
small part of their vector control program, and that long-lasting
insecticide treated nets are much more important.
|6.13.07 @ 2:23PM|#
R C Dean,
The relevant quote from Carson's book:
"No responsible person contends that insect-borne disease should be
ignored. The question that has now urgently presented itself is
whether it is either wise or responsible to attack the problem by
methods that are rapidly making it worse. The world has heard much
of the triumphant war against disease through the control of insect
vectors of infection, but it has heard little of the other side of
the story - the defeats, the short-lived triumphs that now strongly
support the alarming view that the insect enemy has been made
actually stronger by our efforts. Even worse, we may have destroyed
our very means of fighting. ... What is the measure of this
setback? The list of resistant species now includes practically all
of the insect groups of medical importance. ... Malaria programmes
are threatened by resistance among mosquitoes. ... Practical advice
should be 'Spray as little as you possibly can' rather than 'Spray
to the limit of your capacity' ..., Pressure on the pest population
should always be as slight as possible."
I cut and pasted that from the Wikipedia entry on Rachel
Carson.
It's funny, all of the ones and zeros Ron Bailey has spent on the
issue of DDT and on criticizing Silent Spring, and he's never
actually provided a quote from the book or a link to the relevant
section, has he?
It's almost as if there's an agenda beyond making malaria control
more effective going on here.
|6.13.07 @ 2:25PM|#
To be fair, after about the 8th or 9th time Tim Lambert brought this to his attention, Bailey included a statement that the problem wasn't with Rachel Carson, but with "her followers."
|6.13.07 @ 2:29PM|#
db,
It used to be Quinn and Banana, until Quinn got all political. Then
he went to some now-defunct classic rock station and started "The
War Room" with some whiny girl named Rose.
It's like the poor man's Rush Limbaugh show, except at least Rush
can veil his lies a little. Quinn just spout out complete, obvious
bullshit from 6-10am.
Thank Zeus I moved from that wretched town...
|6.13.07 @ 2:36PM|#
You can eat DDT without apparent harm. DDT has never stopped being used, and is cheap. I have no idea how to use or not use DDT. I've had a bat house in my back yard for two years without a bat coming to visit. Bats work. Carson's book, which did lauch a generation against chemicals, wasn't a scientific manual or legal document.
scandalrag|6.13.07 @ 2:40PM|#
I find the most amazing claim in the article to be Uganda had a
country music star.
Recently Ugandan country music star Job Paul Kafeero died of the
disease
|6.13.07 @ 3:05PM|#
has anyone addressed this alleged debunking of the DDT-Malaria
connection?
http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/30/ddt-tobacco-and-the-parallel-universe/
db|6.13.07 @ 3:12PM|#
Taktix:
You'll recall that Quinn didn't get "political" until he was
accused (probably rightly) of sexual harrassment of a colleague
on-air. After he got fired by B-94 is when he took up the political
talk show angle.
Calculator|6.13.07 @ 3:13PM|#
Since you've decided to stop by and shit on the floor, I have a
question for you, Lambert.
Precisely how many more Africans need to die before your
ethno-bloodlust is satisfied?
The many millions your side has disposed of so far clearly haven't
brought the world's darkies-to-humans ratio down to a level you
believe to be sustainable.
Give us a number, pig.
|6.13.07 @ 3:31PM|#
Yeah, I wouldn't expect a great deal of rational, fact-based
discourse from people trying to get the last mile from this
discredited hatchet job.
Oh, and Tim? When did you stop beating you wife?
Mike Laursen|6.13.07 @ 3:33PM|#
I find the most amazing claim in the article to be Uganda
had a country music star.
Apparently, what they meant is that his music told stories, like a
lot of American country music.
|6.13.07 @ 4:01PM|#
Perhaps this guy is lying. Perhaps this is all propaganda and
there is no reason why Uganda or any other country can't use DDT in
a responsible manner. Since I have never been to Uganda, I do not
know.
One thing is for sure, huge gains were made in stopping malaria in
the 1950s and the 1960s. Most of those gains outside of temperate
areas like the US who only had seasonal malaria problems have been
reversed in the last 30 years.
Now we have this guy saying that one of the reasons is because he
cannot get the G8 to let him use DDT because environmental groups
won't agree to it. Why shouldn't I take the guy at his word? It is
not like environmental groups haven't been Luddite and completely
unreasonable about a million other different issues.
Joe is right that Carson herself never wanted to ban DDT.
Unfortunately Carson died shortly after the publication of Silent
Spring and her followers got the substance banned completely. It is
not about blaming Carson personally for the madness surrounding
DDT. It is about ignorant people who made a decision, completely
banning DDT, based on emotion rather than science and reason. At
least according to this guy, those people are still out there and
still doing damage. I don't see what is so controversial about
that. Why is it so hard to admit that the environmental movement,
like any other movement in the history of the world, has its share
of extremists who advocate harmful things?
biologist|6.13.07 @ 4:16PM|#
John:
every movement has its extremists.
do these comments sound like they're directed only at the
extremists?
"But keep it up with your left wing environmental propaganda...i
mean you have only killed about 20 million poor people with those
lies...you still have a couple billion to go."
"Precisely how many more Africans need to die before your
ethno-bloodlust is satisfied?
The many millions your side has disposed of so far clearly haven't
brought the world's darkies-to-humans ratio down to a level you
believe to be sustainable."
|6.13.07 @ 4:45PM|#
Alkali,
"Although Uganda's National Environmental Management Authority has
approved DDT for malaria control, Western environmentalists
continue to undermine our efforts and discourage G-8 governments
from supporting us. The EU has acknowledged our right to use DDT,
but some consumer and agricultural groups repeat myths and lies
about the chemical.
Names, please?"
I am right with you on that. And even more, I would like to know
how these groups have managed to influence a decision by the G8,
and how the G8 support is necessary for Uganda, who could, I assume
go ahead with a program on their own. This article is saying "the
G8 isn't paying for our DDT...Must be those (unnamed)
environmentalists stopping them."
I am not sure I buy it even if this man's opinion is sincere. There
is too much left unsaid for me to believe he has accurately
described the situation.
I mean, the Gates foundation doesn't need the G8 to approve
anything.
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/GlobalHealth/Pri_Diseases/Malaria/
|6.13.07 @ 4:48PM|#
John,
"One thing is for sure, huge gains were made in stopping malaria in
the 1950s and the 1960s."
And another thing that is for sure is that in places where DDT
continued to be widely sprayed and used for agricultural use, such
as Sri Lanka, malaria rebounded, killing thousands upon thousands,
because its irresponsible use has bred resistant mosquitoes,
exactly as Rachel Carson warned.
Let's take a moment of silence to give thanks to Rachel Carson, and
her followers, whose efforts to ban the irresponsible use of DDT
brought the scrourge of DDT-resistant malariail mosquitoes to an
end - a brilliant act of foresight whose toll in lives saved will
not doubt rise into the hundreds of millions, if not billions, in
the coming years, as the still-useful product is used in the
responsible manner advocated by Rachel Carson and Minister
Zaramaba.
|6.13.07 @ 4:51PM|#
It would have good if the humane progress generated by Carson's warnings about the irresponsible use of DDT had been less fitful, but that's the way progress works.
|6.13.07 @ 5:11PM|#
Maybe you should, you know, RTFA. As the minister
acknowledges, the ban on agricultural use of DDT is the reason that
it remains useful in controlling malaria today, by preventing and
reversing the spread of DDT-resistance in mosquitoes.
DDT-resistance in mosquitoes was not due to agricultural uses. It
was due to using cheap low quality DDT produced in third world
countries. Joe perhaps you would care to explain to everyone how
malaria was eradicated in much of the world at the same time DDT
was being used heavily in agriculture in those same areas.
The question is not why am I trying to leave African nations
powerless to combat malaria, it is why is it necessary for you to
invent a mythology about DDT-resistance from ag use when in fact
the the reason to curtail DDT use in ag is to prevent large
exposure of DDT to raptor birds?
|6.13.07 @ 5:16PM|#
To be fair, after about the 8th or 9th time Tim Lambert
brought this to his attention, Bailey included a statement that the
problem wasn't with Rachel Carson, but with "her
followers."
Actually my problem is with Carson's misrepresentation of
pesticides contribution to human cancer. A link that had and still
has little scientific basis but has contributed greatly to the
hyper fear environmentalists have in using pesticides.
|6.13.07 @ 5:17PM|#
I ran across this article which have a very different take on
things...
Summary, the west is trying to force DDT on Africa...
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34928
And this one reports that Uganda is going ahead with DDT.
http://www.globalhealthreporting.org/article.asp?DR_ID=44549
|6.13.07 @ 5:44PM|#
"Joe perhaps you would care to explain to everyone how malaria
was eradicated in much of the world at the same time DDT was being
used heavily in agriculture in those same areas."
OK. The heavy use of DDT killed off almost all of the mosquitoes in
certain areas. Nearby areas which received lower doses bred
DDT-resistant mosquitoes, which explains why many of the areas
which saw reductions in malaria deaths then saw them rebound.
My, that was remarkably easy.
"a mythology about DDT-resistance from ag use" Uh huh. We all know
evolution is a myth.
|6.13.07 @ 6:30PM|#
Not to mention, wiping out a mosquito-borne disease is a lot easier in areas with a temperate climate and a winter than in a tropical region.
Gahan|6.13.07 @ 6:54PM|#
Has anyone investigated the relationship between country music and malaria eradication?
biologist|6.13.07 @ 7:06PM|#
"DDT-resistance in mosquitoes was not due to agricultural uses.
It was due to using cheap low quality DDT produced in third world
countries."
Please explain how the quality of the DDT being used can affect the
development of resistance in mosquitoes. This statement appears to
be a non sequitur.
|6.13.07 @ 7:07PM|#
What I found remarkable about the Minister's op-ed was Uganda's apparent inability to pay for or conduct this program on its own. The pilot program worked, people were trained in the application of indoor DDT, but yet Uganda must rely on Western funding to expand the program. I wonder how much of that Western funding will go to "administrative expenses" in the director general's ministry.
D.A. Ridgely|6.13.07 @ 7:11PM|#
Germans like country music, too. Okay, so maybe that isn't as much of a shock or stretch as Africans, but it sure as hell is funny to watch.
biologist|6.13.07 @ 7:46PM|#
D.A. Ridgely:
Germany also exhibits a strong inclination for the musical stylings
of Mr. David Hasselhoff.
There is truly no accounting for taste.
|6.13.07 @ 7:49PM|#
How much DDT would it take to eliminate David Hasselhoff, and
what are the chances that he could develop resistance?
Maybe it would be a better policy to spray DDT on our Hasselhoff
nets, just to be safe.
|6.13.07 @ 8:05PM|#
Please explain how the quality of the DDT being used can
affect the development of resistance in mosquitoes. This statement
appears to be a non sequitur.
Huh?
I doubt your name biologist.
lets say everyone drank cyanide in deadly quantities...everyone
dies.
Now lets say everyone drank cyanide in lower quantities some people
dies and some people didn't....now would the people who survived
produce offspring who were more or less resistant to cyanide
poisoning?
|6.13.07 @ 8:10PM|#
"a mythology about DDT-resistance from ag use" Uh huh. We all
know evolution is a myth.
I never questioned evolution. You did.
How does the use of DDT in people absent ag lands (read mosquito
absent lands) produce DDT resistant mosquitoes?
Or even better how does evolution only work in Africa but not in
North America, South America and the Mediterranean Europe?
You not only don't believe in evolution but when time and space
conflict with your left wing universe you deny that as well.
biologist|6.13.07 @ 9:01PM|#
joshua:
You're right, my name isn't biologist. You got me.
So, by "lower quality", what you meant was "lower concentration"?
Your poor semantics caused my inability to understand what you were
talking about.
In any case, do you have any evidence or a citation to back up your
assertion that the African countries were spraying "lower quality"
DDT, or that this is what resulted in the spread of malarial
resistance?
|6.13.07 @ 9:10PM|#
Perhaps environmentalists should urge Uganda to consider passing laws against mosquitoes, or subjecting their mosquito population to government controls.
|6.13.07 @ 9:14PM|#
Or maybe a mosquito tax.
We can make them file little, tiny quarterly statements.
No no, "malaria credits." We'll cap malaria-carrier levels, and the
market will solve everything for us.
|6.13.07 @ 9:48PM|#
Hey, I've always wanted to make the parasites pay their fair
share.
I mean they've been living off the body politic for too long!
MattXIV|6.14.07 @ 12:11AM|#
their names are Mr and Mrs Western Environmentalist, who, as every knows, basically control the G8 governments. Who can forget the 50% cut in CO2 emissions they forced on the US last year? Bush didn't want to do it, but he had to give in to the all-powerful environmentalists."
Actually, maybe he was talking about Dr. Mariann
Lloyd-Smith:
My thanks to Neu Mejican for the link about the IFCS.
IMHO, the Great DDT Debate as carried out on many a blog, is quite
possibly the most pointless argument we have in these times.
Everybody always agrees that it is appropriate to use DDT in vector
control where it is the most effective option, but we all disagree
on how much an book written in the '60s affected the ultimate
timing of a change in WHO policy towards recommending use of DDT in
situations where it would be an effective means of vector control.
It's not even an argument about an actual policy point - it's an
argument about whether or not you like a book.
|6.14.07 @ 12:58AM|#
I see Ron Bailey is still pushing his falsehoods about imaginary
DDT-bans that supposedly led to millions of deaths. But hey, don't
let facts or reason get in the way of REASON!
Guess what folks: third world countries did not and still do not
give a shit about the environment. They did not stop using DDT
because they cared about birds. They stopped using it because it
STOPPED WORKING due to increased resistance from using it in
profoundly stupid and ineffective ways. Today, despite what Ron
Bailey implies, more intelligent DDT use is still part of an
overall strategy for fighting malaria, but it's no longer a central
or even the main part.
And, most amusing of all, court findings spilled the beans on why
this issue is even out there: it's because tobacco companies
decided that they needed to create a campaign to discredit the WHO.
The money, voices, and much of the stuff that Bailey unthinkingly
parrots (because he's too lazy to do any real research) comes
straight out of industry-funded PR firms like Africa Fighting
Malaria tasked with this goal. It's no conspiracy theory: the
documents in question spell everything out very plainly.
Ron Bailey is nothing more than a dupe for an astroturf group
funded by Phillip Morris.
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/05/africa_fighting_malarias_wedge.php
|6.14.07 @ 1:02AM|#
More debunking of the abysmal science of the "DDT killed
millions" nonsense here:
http://membracid.wordpress.com/2007/06/07/ddt-junk-science-malaria-and-the-attack-on-rachel-carson/
|6.14.07 @ 1:09AM|#
And here's the actual story on DDT resistance:
http://membracid.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/ddt-malaria-insecticide-resistance/
...from an actual expert on the subject, as opposed to someone that
mostly just copy and pastes press releases from lobbying firms.
|6.15.07 @ 1:49PM|#
Ron Bailey is nothing more than a dupe for an astroturf
group funded by Phillip Morris.
Seeing as how DDT's patent is long expired and only factories in
India and China make the stuff...wouldn't Ron have to be a dupe for
some Asian state run industry?
|6.15.07 @ 1:56PM|#
In any case, do you have any evidence or a citation to back
up your assertion that the African countries were spraying "lower
quality" DDT, or that this is what resulted in the spread of
malarial resistance?
Neither joe or yourself has posted any citations as to the
resistance coming from ag use of DDT....
I will show you mine after you show me yours.
By the way it surprises me that someone claiming to be a biologist
so inconsistently applys standards of proof.
biologist|6.15.07 @ 5:26PM|#
joshua:
I've made no claims regarding DDT resistance in regards to
agricultural use. You have. I merely asked you to clarify and back
up with evidence your claims. You haven't.
|6.15.07 @ 6:02PM|#
I've made no claims regarding DDT resistance in regards to
agricultural use. You have. I merely asked you to clarify and back
up with evidence your claims. You haven't.
Really?
Hmm Joe made some claims..same with plunge....same with Tim
Lambert...why are you only picking on me?
Hmmm i wonder?
Why would even minded scientifically train biologist selective want
a higher standard of proof from one position yet ask for nothing
from another position?
By the way are you still confused about how evolution works
biologist? Or do i need to explain it again a third time?
i love this...it makes me laugh every time i read it.
So, by "lower quality", what you meant was "lower
concentration"? Your poor semantics caused my inability to
understand what you were talking about.
What the fuck do you think i meant by low quality DDT?
Perhaps i meant DDT of such low quality that it actually killed the
bugs better then it should...
Bwahahahaha
biologist|6.15.07 @ 6:57PM|#
the reason I didn't ask for evidence from joe or Tim Lambert is
that evolution is the straightforward mechanism for development of
resistance to DDT. if DDT is used for agricultural treatment, and
the mosquitos develop resistance, then the use of DDT for
agricultural treatment of mosquitos has resulted in development of
resistance by natural selection. this is a well-documented
phenomenon in mosquitos, other insects, and the development of
antibiotic resistance in bacterial pathogens. no other explanation
needed.
your explanation doesn't make sense. it is a non-explanation. even
if what you said is true, that lower quality/ lower concentration
of DDT resulted in resistsnce development, if that were used for
agricultural application, it would still be agricultural
application that resulted in resistance by natural selection.
you're right, I probably gave you too much credit for knowledge of
chemistry by asking what you meant by low quality DDT. what I meant
was, the DDT could have been poorly buffered, with the result that
it degraded more quickly in the environment than it should have (so
the initial concentration of application would have been the same,
but the persistence of its effect in the environment would have
been lowered). or, the conditions the DDT was synthesized under
were not optimal, resulting in a low yield of DDT product in the
reactions, resulting in a low concentration of DDT (apparently,
this is what you meant). there are other possible interpretations,
if you know a bit about chemistry, which apparently you
don't.
in any case, your scenario isn't different from joe's. the fault
lies with either the company synthesizing the compound, or the
applicators of the compound. it in no way implicates the advocates
for minimizing DDT use in the deaths of Africans from malaria. the
only way your scenario would be likely work would be to apply a
high enough concentration everywhere at once to kill all
mosquitos.
also, I know you think you're funny, but that's just your
incredible ignorance talking.
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