Reason Magazine
- reason.com
- reason.tv
- reason.org
- Donate
- Site Search:
Reason on Facebook
Reason on Twitter
Reason on YouTube
Reason RSSGet Reason E-mail Updates!
Manage your Reason e-mail list subscriptionsadvertisements
Gay Voodoo Limbo Tango and Wango Dance b/w Cat Scratch Fever
If these e-mails blogged by Pam Spaulding are real, Sgt. Marcia
Ramode might be the worst military recruiter of all time. Here was
her final e-mailed response to a nagging gay man who (she had
hoped)* wanted to suit up:
The whole sordid story (with some overwraught commentary - really,
all you need to do is post this stuff and the words do your work
for you) at
Spaulding's blog.
*fixed the sentence to make it clear that Ramode made first contact.
Kid Handsome|3.26.07 @ 12:00PM|#
Ok - I don't agree with the government's policy on gays in the
military - but, this recruiter was clearly frustrated by someone
who won't leave her alone.
She could have been more eloquent, but the charges of harassment
seem to be full of more than a little hypocrisy.
Kid Handsome|3.26.07 @ 12:01PM|#
. . . and by more eloquent, I mean not patently offensive, which she clearly was. Still, her clear intent was to get this person to leave her alone. It's pretty clear that she wasn't sending out unsolicited e-mails.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.26.07 @ 12:03PM|#
Okay, I guess I should have clicked first. I'm still skeptical that anyone is this stupid in this day and age, but, there does seem to be a little substance there. And, if true, I see Kid's point about frustration.
|3.26.07 @ 12:06PM|#
As special as here comments about homosexuality are, it was her
thoughts about African Americans and their place in our society
that really made this story for me.
Kid Handsome, she is a public official dealing with a member of the
public. As someone who's been in that position, I can tell you that
it is wholly inappropriate to talk to your bosses like that.
Thomas Ware|3.26.07 @ 12:08PM|#
Isn't there some requirement to join the service that you can read, and write?
|3.26.07 @ 12:08PM|#
- but, this recruiter was clearly frustrated by someone who
won't leave her alone.
The recruiter contactd this person after coming across his profile
on careerbuilder. She could have stopped replying at any time, but
she didn't.
It's really hard to call something "harrassment" when the recruiter
kept responding and engaging in a debate with someone, and started
making personal hateful bigoted attacks.
I would imagine that someone would train these people to be polite
and respond with something like "sorry, this is the policy of the
Army" and leave it at that.
Garth|3.26.07 @ 12:13PM|#
She clearly thinks gay sex is hot (particularly of the African
American variety) but *believes* she should not... such
conflict!
If all this had happened on her personal email address maybe you
could call it free expression, but using an official email makes it
official correspondance. So beyind being a complete asshat, she's
guilty of other infractions.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.26.07 @ 12:14PM|#
So, did he go back to Africa?
I think she actually asked him to swim back to Africa. With a
resident of West Hollywood under each arm.
grylliade|3.26.07 @ 12:15PM|#
Here was her final e-mailed response to a nagging gay man who wanted to suit up:
The "nagging gay man" didn't want to suit up. The
recruiter contacted him after finding his resume on a
website. He didn't want to join because he is gay, and told her
that he thought the policy was wrong. That, apparently, is what
sparked the whole thing. He didn't want to join in spite of the
policy; he wanted to express his disapproval of the policy
(admittedly to someone who has less than no control over it). He
also insulted her because she's American Indian, which is bad, but
not nearly as bad as what she said.
|3.26.07 @ 12:16PM|#
There's a brand new dance and it's going around
The Gay Voodoo Limbo Tango and Wango Dance
It's hard not to do it when you hear that sound
Gay Voodoo Limbo Tango and Wango Dance...
The Wine Commonsewer|3.26.07 @ 12:19PM|#
Sgt. Marcia Ramode might be the worst military recruiter of
all time
No, the worst recruiter of all time is the one who told my
Grandfather that if he dropped out of med school the Army would
make him a doctor. Okay, he did get to drive an ambulance.
|3.26.07 @ 12:23PM|#
A person with this much hate should be required to walk downtown Tehran with a sandwich board showing a cartoon of Jesus doin Allah doggy style. Jesus could be sayin "who's your daddy?"
|3.26.07 @ 12:26PM|#
I told a recruiter during my senior year in high school that I wasn't interested because I wanted to go to college and become an engineer and besides my uncle had been killed in Viet Nam and my mother was very anti-army. His words: "hell son a lot of people died in Viet Nam and you will never find a job as an engineer, I know a guy in Liberal Kansas with an engineering degree who cleans the pissers at McDonalds for a living." - I didn't join the army but I didn't become an engineer either.
|3.26.07 @ 12:29PM|#
The Wine Commonsewer | March 26, 2007, 12:03pm | #
Okay, I guess I should have clicked first. I'm still skeptical
that anyone is this stupid in this day and age, but, there
does seem to be a little substance there. And, if true, I see Kid's
point about frustration.
Excuse me? A few days ago, my fiance and I were discussing how it
seems as if society in general is getting more retarded every day.
I am skeptical when I hear that somebody did something the right
way. Although, you hardly ever hear about that.
|3.26.07 @ 12:29PM|#
"I didn't join the army but I didn't become an engineer
either."
Get back to scrubbing toilets, and stop wasting time on the
tubes.
|3.26.07 @ 12:35PM|#
So, our freedom of speech was given to us by the
military???
In my High School civics class, I was taught that rights were
endowed upon man by God at least according to the Declaration of
Independence.
|3.26.07 @ 12:42PM|#
NoStar,
Yes, this idea that from the military flows all of our freedoms is
rather disconcerting. The military has served to protect us from
various threats and nonthreats over the years, but that doesn't
make it the source of liberty. Ugh.
|3.26.07 @ 12:43PM|#
Liberal Kansas
Hmmmm? So which part of Kansas is liberal? The gas station 2
hundred miles down the road or the tree over there, you know by the
bird, or something? :)
Anonymous|3.26.07 @ 12:51PM|#
In my High School civics class, I was taught that rights
were endowed upon man by God at least according to the Declaration
of Independence.
Yeah, but until the Continental Army actually did something about
it, those rights were theoretical at best.
|3.26.07 @ 12:52PM|#
steveintheknow and joe,
There's a city in Kansas called Liberal. And yes, it is by the
tree.
Pendulum|3.26.07 @ 1:03PM|#
I'm thrilled and surprised to see that military recruiters can be that incompetant. Competant recruiters are the dangerous ones. Since military recruiting is by nature manipulation of the basest sort, I yearn for incompetant, uncharismatic recruiters who are incapable of conning well-meaning young people into joining this killing machine.
|3.26.07 @ 1:03PM|#
Yeah, but until the Continental Army actually did something about it, those rights were theoretical at best
Are you sure you don't mean the French Navy? ;)
Pendulum|3.26.07 @ 1:05PM|#
"Yeah, but until the Continental Army actually did something
about it, those rights were theoretical at best."
We've come a long way from the COntinental Army, anonymous.
|3.26.07 @ 1:08PM|#
There's a city in Kansas called Liberal. And yes, it is by the tree.
Doh! Thats funny.
/lays guns down, and walks away. Head hung low. Whistling in the
background...
|3.26.07 @ 1:19PM|#
military recruiters were worse than telemarketers. i remember
getting phone calls in high school seemingly every week.
a friend of my sister had the best defense from recruiters. when
they asked about college he would tell them that he was going to
study musical theater.
Recruiter: Alrighty, good luck then! *click*
|3.26.07 @ 1:23PM|#
I've never been in the military, but isn't "Gay Voodoo Limbo
Tango" just a part of the phonetic alphabet they use? Perhaps she
was just signaling a member of her unit.
"This is Bravo Charlie Alpha Foxtrot..... come in, Gay Voodoo Limbo
Tango. What's your 20?
GILMORE|3.26.07 @ 1:35PM|#
Joe gets points for "the Kansas hills"
"Thar be libbrals up in them thar hills"
REAL AMERICAN|3.26.07 @ 1:44PM|#
GO BACK TO FUCKING COMMIE RUSSIAN MEXICO YOU LIBERTARANS. YOU CAN DANCE ARROUND NAKED AND DO DRUGS AND GAMBLE ON DRUGS AND PISS ON YOUR OWN FUCKING FLAG. YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU HATE WHAT AMERICA IS ABOUT. I HAVE HIT AND RUN BLOCKED FROM MY INTERNETS SO I DONT HAVE TO HEAR ABOUT HOW YOU ARE GAY. THEY SHOULD SEND A REAL AMERICAN SWAT TEAM TO YOUR HOUSE.
GILMORE|3.26.07 @ 1:46PM|#
Maybe Guy (REAL AMERICAN) Montag will pop up to acccuse people
of being "gay sympathizers" like he did in the open thread over the
weekend.
(in response to people suggesting that the term 'faggot' isnt
exactly cool casual expression for generically 'feminized
male')
Which personally i thought was one of the gayest things ever
written on these threads.
Calling anyone an X-sympathizer is cute reversal of direct
discrimination... meaning, the 'sympathized' clearly dont deserve
as such, and sympathizers - though possibly REAL AMERICANS
themselves - simply fail to understand that certain kinds of
bigotry and slander is perfectly defensible.
as a side note, gays in NY call each other 'fag' all the time, but
faggot, never. Faggot is generally used by guidos who want to start
fights.
Being bigoted against Guidos is perfectly OK, BTW.
GILMORE|3.26.07 @ 1:48PM|#
Hey man, thats not cool... You stole my 'MORE AMERICAN THAN YOU'
character! I trademarked that guy!
you should respect my interrectural ploperty
GILMORE|3.26.07 @ 1:51PM|#
Although, kudos for using "... AND DO DRUGS AND GAMBLE ON
DRUGS.."
that made me raff.
Want a Banana Republic? Move |3.26.07 @ 1:51PM|#
a retarded trailer court hessians employed as a recruiter?
bet she has real nice titties that help get all sorts of guys to
sign on the line
going up against a fag just threw her off her game
poor dear
btw
It has been my experience that many of the lower classers in this
nation take solice in staking false claim to indian (feather, not
spot) ancestry.
It beats the hell outta admitting (even to one's self) that you're
an ill educated mutt who can trace your family line back through 3
generations of dregs.
"I'm part indian princess!"
|3.26.07 @ 1:54PM|#
To avoid the McDonald's fate of engineering, I chose to study
instead the much more employable field of macro-economics.
Of course I can't be certain that the recruiter was lying, if it
happened to be a petroleum engineer and this was 1986 so he could
of been right.
Liberal, Kansas is on the opposite side of the state from the
tree.
|3.26.07 @ 1:59PM|#
indian (feather, not spot) ancestry
I believe the preferred terminology is "slurpee or casino"
Indian.
|3.26.07 @ 2:02PM|#
well thank you very F'ing much
just shot slurpee outta my nose onto the slot macine
VM|3.26.07 @ 2:06PM|#
High#: call center or casino variety is another
differentiation.
Brotherben: AMEN!
|3.26.07 @ 2:17PM|#
Wow. I might have assumed that anyone who read those letters would want to string up that recruiter.
|3.26.07 @ 2:18PM|#
I signed up for Gay Voodoo Limbo Tango and Wango dance lessons,
but not enough other people in my community signed up so the
classes got cancelled.
/kicks pebble
The Wine Commonsewer|3.26.07 @ 2:19PM|#
...in general is getting more retarded every
day....
Have you been hanging with Dimitri? :-)
It is easy to see the retards everywhere and I, myself, hold out no
hope except that we are making private gains faster than the
government can smush them out. That bodes well.
But what I meant was that I can't believe that anyone would put
something like that in an email. That is real stupidity. Like
keeping naked pictures of your mistress hidden on your hard
drive.
CM|3.26.07 @ 2:22PM|#
aw crap
Those two comments are unrelated. Apologies for the double post -
just realized there is the potential for unintended innuendo going
on there.
/kicks self.
GILMORE|3.26.07 @ 2:26PM|#
It has been my experience that many of the lower classers in
this nation take solice in staking false claim to indian (feather,
not spot) ancestry.
Strange and true.
Although, we *are* supposed to be a classless society :) The proper
nomenclature here is...well.... shit i dont know.
It's kind of a well known thing that puerto rican new yorkers would
sometimes claim to originate from Venezuela, or other countries
where there are 'roots' traceable back to Spain... it was just a
way to differentiate themselves from the lower-lower classers.
They'd made it to upper-lower class, so suddenly felt need to
differentiate.
Also, there's the '12 tribes' thing of those crazy Black Hebrews...
who basically explain that blacks and hispanics and other 'people
of color' come from Israel (before that, space), while whitey comes
from Norway, before that, hell.
|3.26.07 @ 2:26PM|#
"Excuse me? A few days ago, my fiance and I were discussing how
it seems as if society in general is getting more retarded every
day. "
The Internet is a system of rubes...
|3.26.07 @ 2:30PM|#
Like keeping naked pictures of your mistress hidden on your
hard drive.
Boy, howdy!
|3.26.07 @ 2:33PM|#
Since military recruiting is by nature manipulation of the
basest sort
How do you figure Pendulum? Last time I checked they don't use
press gangs in the United States. I hear that some people actually
willingly join the military.
|3.26.07 @ 2:34PM|#
smacky writes: "I signed up for Gay Voodoo Limbo Tango and Wango
dance lessons, but not enough other people in my community signed
up so the classes got cancelled."
That's just what they told you.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.26.07 @ 2:40PM|#
VM, I'll go you one better. Blue Dicks on my HD, and if it ever rains, on the hillsides.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.26.07 @ 2:44PM|#
Swilfredo, tis true that the milatry has cleaned up it's act during the last 40 years or so, but there was a time when recruiters would promise the world and often as not the rubes would buy it. My granddad did.
|3.26.07 @ 3:39PM|#
CM | March 26, 2007, 2:22pm | #
CM = Contrite Moose?
Chagrined Moose?
Catheterized Moose?
Cachalot Moose?
Caespitose Moose?
Caliginous Moose?
Camelious Moose?
Capriform Moose?
Casefied Moose?
Carpophagous Moose?
Chalastic Moose?
Cheiloproclitic Moose?
Chevrotain Moose?
Cyesolagnic Moose?
Cynocleptic Moose?
Explain this change, please.
VM|3.26.07 @ 3:42PM|#
I like "Chagrined"... :)
(or Cacophony Moose)
ah. just a few steps from Oak Street or North Ave Beach...
/kicks self again.
|3.26.07 @ 4:00PM|#
I liked cheiloproclitic: attracted to lips.
That would be one disturbing moose.
I hear the lake is gorgeous today.
SPD|3.26.07 @ 4:02PM|#
Radar magazine recently had a piece wherein they discovered that most military recruiters these days are willing to forgive most of their target's little... um, imperfections.
|3.26.07 @ 4:06PM|#
She didn't misspell "adios" ... she misspelled "Adonis." This just proves my theory may or may not be in the ballpark.
|3.26.07 @ 4:28PM|#
"Do women always go this nuts when rebuffed by a gay man?"
It has nothing to do with rebuffing. or gay men. or going.
They just are.
Pendulum|3.26.07 @ 6:17PM|#
How do you figure Pendulum? Last time I checked they don't
use press gangs in the United States. I hear that some people
actually willingly join the military.
If a lot of people
Pendulum|3.26.07 @ 6:37PM|#
How do you figure Pendulum? Last time I checked they don't
use press gangs in the United States. I hear that some people
actually willingly join the military.
If a sufficient number of people really wanted to join the
military, there'd be little need for recruiters, right? Recruiters
exist primarily to convince those who *don't* want to go to the
military, that they actually *do*; that the military is happy fun
camp where you'll get to climb ropes and helm submarines, like in
the commercials! - and don't forget that fatty $30 grand
bonus!
This wouldn't be a problem if not for the fact that these gullible
individuals are 17 years old, not even legal adults, let alone of
the age where they'd ordinarily be signing binding contracts in
civilian life.
And, if you'd still like to look at it simply in the "force or
fraud" way, I'd imagine there's a good deal of explicit fraud that
goes on. Stories abound of explicit and implicit
misrepresentation.
For those (comparitively few) people who join the military purely
out of considered patriotism or ideological allegiance, I'm happy
to let them serve. For those people who are destined to be forever
numbskulls who love killing and butchery, I'm happy to let them
serve too.
But for those teenagers - I believe the majority - who deal with a
mix of confusion, external pressure, financial need, and other
factors, and are hesitating; well, I'd prefer to keep recruiters,
with their marketing tactics and quotas, out of the equation.
|3.26.07 @ 6:43PM|#
If a sufficient number of people really wanted to join the
military, there'd be little need for recruiters, right? Recruiters
exist primarily to convince those who *don't* want to go to the
military, that they actually *do*
Yeah, like the guy who made me to buy a sofa. Salesman do nothing
but force people to do things against their will.
|3.26.07 @ 6:46PM|#
the guy who made me to buy a sofa
That would be my dad, but that wasn't really his intention.
Should be
"the guy who made me buy a sofa"
Pendulum|3.26.07 @ 6:56PM|#
Yeah, like the guy who made me to buy a sofa. Salesman do
nothing but force people to do things against their
will.
I hope you have the same attitude towards the older guy who seduces
your theoretical 17 year-old daughter and has sex with her without
protection? Bully for him, good sales job there! Of course, if he's
an HIV carrier, and he didn't explicitly deceive her about it, but
she neglected to ask, toughies, right! Sofa sold! Go
capitalism!
That's a pretty apt analogy to what military recruiters engage in.
If you're offended by the practices of the one, why not the
other?
I'm against consensual statuatory rape laws, just like I support
the legality of military recruitment, just like I support the
legality of shady sofa salesmen. There's a difference between
supporting the legality and supporting the activity, and I oppose
deception and manipulation when I find it.
|3.26.07 @ 7:03PM|#
'kay, Pendulum. I am on your side then. Above board recruiting techniques, salesmanship, and seduction are all A-OK.
Pendulum|3.26.07 @ 7:13PM|#
'kay, Pendulum. I am on your side then. Above board
recruiting techniques, salesmanship, and seduction are all
A-OK.
So, I go have a nice shower, I come back, and someone's agreeing
with me! What a day! :)
The real question now becomes how much deception is actually going
on? Where does it fall on the scale of:
1) Accepted, standard practice [almost necessary, or else you miss
your quota];
2) On face discouraged, but inevitable given the system (quotas,
etc.)
3) Unusual and aberrant; the result of 'rogue agents' abusing the
system.
I'd guess it's somewhere between #1 and #2, given that I've heard
some stories that turn my stomach. I'd welcome anyone who could
shed light on whether this is an accurate perception.
|3.26.07 @ 7:24PM|#
I can say that I have heard many stories from people about
recruiters lying or encouraging recruits to lie. They lie to
recruits about how easy it will be to get assigned to whatever job
it is that interests them in the service, like TWC's g-pa was lied
to, and they tell recruits to lie about health issues (a friend who
joined the navy out of high school was told to lie about his
asthma).
I am sure that many recruiters are the equivalent of the proverbial
sleazy used car salesman. This does not mean that all recruiters or
all used car salesmen are sleazy.
Aspiring Crip|3.26.07 @ 8:22PM|#
I saw, with my own two eyes, a recruiter tear up a test where
the perspective recruit admitted to smoking marijuana.
"they won't let you in if you did illegal drugs, how about you fill
out a new form"
my pal got it right the 2nd time, and went on to do a bunch of time
as a military cop in Stuttgart, W Germany (back when there was a E
Germany, and the letters CCCP meant something).
Today, he gives good story.
|3.26.07 @ 8:58PM|#
So a sales pitch is the same thing as giving AIDS to a
17-year-old girl?
I was thinking of clicking on one of the ads over on the right, but
I'd better put on a condom first.
|3.26.07 @ 10:22PM|#
Recruiters exist primarily to convince those who *don't*
want to go to the military, that they actually *do*; that the
military is happy fun camp where you'll get to climb ropes and helm
submarines, like in the commercials! - and don't forget that fatty
$30 grand bonus!
If that is what military recruiters do, what is it that college
recruiters, athletic recruiters and job recruiters do? Find people
who really *don't* want to go to college or play sports or be
employed and convince them otherwise? The military recruits because
there are competing interests for a young man's soul.
I'd imagine there's a good deal of explicit fraud that goes on.
Stories abound of explicit and implicit
misrepresentation.
Don't trouble yourself with providing any. Anyway it wouldn't
surprise me if there was some given the scope of the Department of
Defense. And if there is fraud, I am with you, there should be
accountability. But for the recruit with their, as you so
patronizingly put it, mix of confusion, external pressure,
financial need, and other factors I imagine most of them do
not need your condescension.
|3.27.07 @ 10:39AM|#
Keith, the U.S. Army has never tried to keep the Irish out.
George Washington had some troops who drilled according to
gaeilge commands. During the Civil War there were Irish
Brigades on both sides, and rich guys hiring Irish substitutes to
get around the draft was the going thing. Sure, some Irish resented
the fact that they had fled dragooning by the British only to be
drafted to "fight for Lincoln," hence the New York riots.
Here's a little song for you:
We had our choice of going to the army or to jail,
Or it's up the Hudson River with a cop to take a sail;
So we puckered up our courage and with bravery we did go
And we cursed the day we marched away with the Regular Army, Oh!
- The Regular Army, Oh!, by Harrington and Hart
Kevin
|3.27.07 @ 9:19PM|#
HELLO FRIEND! I AM WRITE ON BEHALF OF PRINCE GAY VOODOO LIMBO TANGO FROM THE NATION NIGERIA! I POSSESS SPECIAL INSIDE INFORMATION ON HIS NEED TO GET 20 MILLION AMERICAN DOLLARS OUT OF THE COUNTRY IMMEDIATELY. FOR ONLY 2000 DOLLARS, YOU CAN MAKE MILLIONS! PLEASE PLACE THE MONEY IN AMERICAN BANK ACCOUNT AND EMAIL THE NUMBER TO US, AND WE WILL PLACE 10 MILLION AMERICAN IN YOUR ACCOUNT. PLEASE DO NOT MISS THIS OPPORTUNITY!
Site comments/questions:
Media Inquiries and Reprint Permissions:
(310) 367-6109
Editorial & Production Offices:
3415 S. Sepulveda Blvd.
Suite 400
Los Angeles, CA 90034
(310) 391-2245