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Cesar Chavez Wants to Kill Your Children!
Georgia
Rep. Charlie Norwood died of cancer last month, opening up his safe
Republican seat for a special election. And the frontrunner for
that seat is...
this guy.
In an effort to elevate himself to the national stage, [State Sen. Jim] Whitehead said the nation’s dilemma with immigration is more serious than an influx of undocumented workers and a drain on social services. He said Venezuelan President Cesar Chavez is “teaching al-Qaeda and people like that, terrorists, how to come across the border, look like Mexicans, act like Mexicans and understand how to talk in this country. They’re coming across just as fast as the Mexicans cross.”
So far, there have been no terrorist attacks linked to illegal border crossings. But the United States has ordered National Guard troops to the border and authorized the building of a massive fence.
Terrorists receive training in Venezuela before crossing the border, Sen. Whitehead said. But it’s more of an educational system than training camps, which would be targets for military action, he said. He said he would support a pre-emptive strike on Venezuela if facts justify it.
Four years into the Iraq War and Republican candidates are still arguing for preemptive wars against third-worlders who aren't actually attacking us. Fantastic! So how much support will this point of view garner in the primary?
I laughed off the bumbling Hugo Chavez almost a year ago.
|3.23.07 @ 11:14AM|#
I seriously believe that if we had a lottery instead of elections, we'd have a more capable legislature.
Guy Montag|3.23.07 @ 11:15AM|#
Enough about preemptive wars, are the British going to nuke Iran
for capturing their sailors?
I thought that was an act of war back before PC war became so
popular.
|3.23.07 @ 11:15AM|#
The thing that struck me when reading the April story by Malia
Politzer is that heightening border security probably increases the
chances of terrorists using that to sneak into the country. The
demand for getting into this country is high enough and the
increased security creates the "highways" needed to get into this
country illegally with relative ease. Further, the unsavoriness of
the characters operating them increases with the level of
risk.
If we just had a guestworker program and asked everybody to supply
documentation, there would be less of a chance of anybody sneaking
in.
Guy Montag|3.23.07 @ 11:17AM|#
BTW, if the accusations are true about Chavez training
terrorists to infiltrate (I have no idea if that is true or not),
how would attacking them be "preemptive"? I believe retaliation
would be a more proper word.
You know, like when a country shoots at our military aircraft for
10 years and then we take the gloves off?
|3.23.07 @ 11:26AM|#
Oh LORD!
Cesar Chavez, Hugo, whatever. I don't care what the guys name is.
All I know is that there is a terrorist problem down in Ecuador
right now! What we need to do is support our troops and send in the
B-2s to take out Bogota IMEDIATELY!
|3.23.07 @ 11:33AM|#
Is this really in Lonewhacker's purview? He's more concerned
with the US turning itself over to the Great Power of Mexico. You
know, like secret plans he's uncovered to annex Texas, New Mexico,
Arizona, and southern California, or the secret announced plans to
build a highway that traverses North America.
What am I saying? Of course he'll have something to say about some
politician who is in league with the Great Brown Threat.
Timothy|3.23.07 @ 11:33AM|#
Hugo, Cesar, all those brown people names sound the same...especially when you're from a state that's 1200 miles from the border.
|3.23.07 @ 11:37AM|#
steveintheknow, LOL, I'll bet Sen. Jim Whitehead is looking for
a good speechwriter. With material like that you'er a shoo-in for
the job.
We laugh, but I think this guy's a winner.
Guy Montag, I think I'd want better documentation before mounting a
"retaliatory" raid than the rantings of a guy who can't even get
that president's name right. Wouldn't you?
lunchstealer|3.23.07 @ 11:40AM|#
We need to stop terrorist and insurgent sympathizers wherever
they're found. I recently found out about another insurgent
supporter with a suspicious name who's actually a local hero in
Delaware. Some guy named Caesar Rodney has apparently been going
around warning people when the lawful authorities are coming to
enforce our laws. Delaware, of all places! They could undermine all
our biggest corporations! And the guy's a local folk hero there.
With statues and everything!
And don't get me started on the threat from Caesar Romero.
Timothy|3.23.07 @ 11:42AM|#
And don't get me started on the threat from Caesar
Romero.
Not to be confused with the threat from Corky Romano.
Guy Montag|3.23.07 @ 11:44AM|#
Guy Montag, I think I'd want better documentation before
mounting a "retaliatory" raid than the rantings of a guy who can't
even get that president's name right. Wouldn't you?
Yes, and I thought I covered that in a completly different
manner.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.23.07 @ 11:48AM|#
I laughed off the bumbling Hugo Chavez almost a year
ago.
Yes, David, but the only threat most libertarians are really afraid
of is Ned Flanders.
And as far as that goes, Whitehead is probably at least as good at
intelligence gathering as the CIA or the FBI, so who knows?
|3.23.07 @ 11:55AM|#
Oh dear God.
Is it too much to ask that if we must be afflicted with a federal
government that we get people who will at least read a newspaper
article on the country they want to bomb next?
I second the lottery motion, but I say expand it to all government
offices. Somehow I don't think we could do any worse than the
authoritarian morons we get now.
|3.23.07 @ 11:57AM|#
-Isaac
Jim Whitehead is looking for a good speechwriter
Yes. Yes I agree. Those informal speechwriting classes at the
community college are finally paying off. Plus I have been brushing
up on the gospels - Mathew, Mark, Luke, and Jim. Combine that with
my understanding that Illegal is Illegal, and that immigration is
the most imminent threat - next to le Islamo-fascinista -to the
bald Eagle we have ever faced, I should be a shoe in. My only
reservation is that our good Lord and Savior Jesus H. Christ was
himself a Mejican at one point - before he was born again, of
course. However when I ask myself "-intheknow, what would Christ
do?" the answer is obvious, he would get all blowed-up on some of
dat-ass! As a result I haven't eaten a taco in at least 4
days!
:)
|3.23.07 @ 12:00PM|#
As a result I haven't eaten a taco in at least 4 days!
To real 'merkins they're called "freedom pitas."
|3.23.07 @ 12:03PM|#
"if the accusations are true about Chavez training
terrorists to infiltrate (I have no idea if that is true or not),
how would attacking them be "preemptive"
I think the point is that Whitehead has no clue about the region
(neither Latin America nor the Middle East), yet he's very
comfortable making inflammatory claims to get elected.
|3.23.07 @ 12:07PM|#
Rewind.
".satip modeerf" dellac er'yeht snikrem' laer oT
Replay.
To real 'merkins they're called "freedom pitas."
|3.23.07 @ 12:13PM|#
Cesar Chavez is the leader of the United Farmer's Union, he's an American and a great American at that! Hugo Chavez is the nut-job controlling Venezuela, and not even he is crazy enough to attempt anything like that!
|3.23.07 @ 12:15PM|#
It's all part of a cunning plan to distract your attention
south, so you won't pay attention to the Frostback
Conspiracy.
First, it was Lorne Greene.
Then, Trivial Pursuit.
Now it's on to universal medicare and phasing out the dollar
bill.
Before you know it, we'll be sending down massive cold fronts to
paralyze the Midwest and Northeast. [Hmmm. Didn't we do that a
couple of weeks back.]
(finishes with an evil sniffle)
|3.23.07 @ 12:16PM|#
To real 'merkins they're called "freedom pitas."
There's a moose who passes through here on occasion who is going to
want to talk to you.
|3.23.07 @ 12:20PM|#
You know, like when a country shoots at our military
aircraft for 10 years and then we take the gloves off?
Are you this divorced from reality. Iraq was not shooting at your
military aircraft flying in US or international airspace. They were
shooting at them in Iraqi airspace after repeated bombing campaigns
by your "defensive" military.
|3.23.07 @ 12:20PM|#
de stijl
No worries, ya done good.
Merkin references, like merkins, make everything deluxe. :)
|3.23.07 @ 12:21PM|#
There's a moose who passes through here on occasion who is
going to want to talk to you.
Will pebbles be kicked?
Guy Montag|3.23.07 @ 12:23PM|#
Are you this divorced from reality. Iraq was not shooting at
your military aircraft flying in US or international airspace. They
were shooting at them in Iraqi airspace after repeated bombing
campaigns by your "defensive" military
Divorcing from reality? Are you trying to say that they had no
business enforcing a surrender agreement in the manner set forth in
the agreement?
|3.23.07 @ 12:25PM|#
HEY OHHHHH!!!
Thats what I'm talkin' 'bout!
Wait, hold on, the IT guy is calling me...
Timothy|3.23.07 @ 12:27PM|#
I was divorced from reality once, the bitch took half my stuff. Messy business. At least she never caught me fucking her sister.
|3.23.07 @ 12:28PM|#
Don't dismiss Whitehead as just another ignorant xenophobe. He
got the right Chavez alright.
Forget the president of Venezuela. Those damned socialist
farm-working Latinos are turning our own grapes against
us. Maybe now Homeland Security will stop snickering at
Whitehead's insistence that the California Raisins be detained for
questioning.
The fact that Cesar Chavez has managed all this while being dead
for nearly 14 years is only further evidence of his treachery.
edna|3.23.07 @ 12:28PM|#
the guy is a state senator. really, who cares? if you want to find stupid stuff from state senators or assemblymen, there's so many of them and they're so anonymous that it's fish/barrel time.
|3.23.07 @ 12:41PM|#
How the hell did Burberry become low rent? I just know them for their awesome rain coats.
lunchstealer|3.23.07 @ 12:43PM|#
And then there's Victor Hugo, which, if the history lesson I've taken from 300 serves me right, was the hunchback who betrayed the Spartans to the forces of Sauron at Helm's Deep. He's clearly tied up in this sinister plan somehow.
|3.23.07 @ 12:48PM|#
I would say that lunchstealer wins the thread, but it would have been funnier if he had gotten the LOTR bad guys right.
GILMORE|3.23.07 @ 12:49PM|#
If we wait until we KNOW the Venezuelans are training
terrorists, then IT WILL BE TOO LATE. Also, it will bring a message
of hope to all the oppressed people in the region, and democracy
will spread like a million poppies, waiting to be harvested into
the world's largest opium crop in history.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/cc6c18fc-0b56-11db-b97f-0000779e2340.html
|3.23.07 @ 12:52PM|#
He said he would support a pre-emptive strike on Venezuela
if facts justify it.
So? I'd support a pre-emptive strike on Portland if facts justify
it, and I live there. I just think it's inconcievable that the
facts would ever justify it.
|3.23.07 @ 12:52PM|#
I would say that lunchstealer wins the thread, but it would
have been funnier if he had gotten the LOTR bad guys
right.
You have no concept of your own geekiness, do you?
|3.23.07 @ 12:53PM|#
I'm curious:
Just how is making a pre-emptive strike that is justified by the
facts controversial, again?
|3.23.07 @ 12:56PM|#
comb your beard, i don't wanna hear that shit.
hay. hay high-number! you should see the lake today, dewd. fuckin'
gorgeous.
so moose i went to der chicago brauhaus the other night. man that
stiegl sure is good. i dunno about the house band tho. where's
falco when you need him?
fscking kansas. wtf is "rock-chalk" anyway?
|3.23.07 @ 12:57PM|#
...the hunchback who betrayed the Spartans to the forces of
Sauron at Helm's Deep
I thought that was Hugo Mortensen...
|3.23.07 @ 1:00PM|#
Just how is making a pre-emptive strike that is justified by
the facts controversial, again?
It worked out perfectly fine in the past, right? Remember the
Maine, Gulf of Tonkin, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a
mushroom cloud"
Guy Montag|3.23.07 @ 1:05PM|#
Just how is making a pre-emptive strike that is justified by
the facts controversial, again?
If the facts justified it, i.e., some other country was training
insurgents and sending them to our country, then it certainly would
not be preemptive.
Rick H.|3.23.07 @ 1:06PM|#
Just how is making a pre-emptive strike that is justified by
the facts controversial, again?
...and welcome to RCD's No-Spin Zone.
lunchstealer|3.23.07 @ 1:07PM|#
What, we've gotten all the way to George Romero from Hugo Chavez
and you're expecting me to miss an opportunity to mix up Sauron and
Sauruman?
I was just disappointed that I couldn't figure out how to work in a
Braveheart joke or a Ted Theodore Logan / Wolverine joke.
|3.23.07 @ 1:16PM|#
Come on lunchstealer, confusing the Lord of the Rings and the Savage Land just doesn't make sense.
|3.23.07 @ 1:17PM|#
High concept geekiness.
That sounds like an excerpt from a review of a Kraftwerk
album.
Mr Crane,
Grey sky + rainy = boring lake.
I'm on to you. Enjoy your bike ride.
|3.23.07 @ 1:17PM|#
"Just how is making a pre-emptive strike that is justified
by the facts controversial, again?"
Because the very nature of preemption assumes that the other party
has not done anything against your interests, but may do so in the
future. Given the level of speculation necessary, it is no wonder
that the facts are never as factual as you would like to think.
See, for example, WMDs.
|3.23.07 @ 1:23PM|#
Now wait a second here.
I realize Mr. Weigel has a particular agenda on this board, but
like HFCS, we don't like to talk about it. Nevertheless, this
little post is written to imply that Mr. Congresscritter doesn't
even know who the President of Venezuela is, confusing him w/ Cesar
Chavez, going so far as to provide a portrait from Time mag. This
elicits predictable comments like CFisher's @ 11:55am. But I just
read that article and it looks to me like the writer, and not
Whitehead, fucked that up. Chavez's name is not in quotes, so it's
wholly unfair to attribute said error to Mr. Whitehead.
It's still fair to attack Whitehead's argument, but to imply he's a
dipshit who doesn't know the difference between Cesar and Hugo is,
well, I dunno . . . advancing an agenda.
lunchstealer|3.23.07 @ 1:27PM|#
Eric S,
That agenda is to advance snark-based humor. It's not nearly as
funny to make fun of a journalist as a politician.
|3.23.07 @ 1:27PM|#
what highnumber?
sorry i didn't get what you just said. see i cracked open a really
fizzy bottle of nehi cola and the bubbles done drowned you
out.
there is a CERA meeting tonight. why do they put these things on
friday nights? i'm freakin' busy.
|3.23.07 @ 1:33PM|#
wtf is "rock-chalk" anyway?
i heard rock-chalk was some reference to chalking up the number
dead missourians during the border hostilities around there - on a
rock i guess. and then something about jayhawks. or some stupid KU
thing like that. either way, it's stupid.
|3.23.07 @ 1:36PM|#
If we have learned any lessons from the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive war, it is that all pre-emptive strikes should be of the nuclear variety. That way there is no evidence left behind that can prove that you just pulled the whole imminent threat thing out of your ass. All of country X's WMDs must have been stored in a big pile located in the center of that gigantic smoking crater.
|3.23.07 @ 1:45PM|#
Some guy named Caesar Rodney
Some guy named Fernando Rodney committed an error for Detroit in
the World Series. Detroit is next to Dearborn. Dearborn has the
largest concentration of Arabs in the US.
The plot thickens.
|3.23.07 @ 1:49PM|#
"I laughed off the bumbling Hugo Chavez almost a year
ago."
Not content with shilling for the Godless Commie Chavez, Weigal
turned to throwing up smokescreens behind which the maniacal genius
could work his anti-American magic.
|3.23.07 @ 1:54PM|#
Because the very nature of preemption assumes that the other
party has not done anything against your interests, but may do so
in the future. Given the level of speculation necessary, it is no
wonder that the facts are never as factual as you would like to
think.
Finally a rational answer. I was just wondering if anyone had ever
given any thought to the issue, or if the analysis was on the level
of "pre-emption is teh suxxor!"
So basically, the argument is that pre-emptive military action can
never justified by the facts, and so I presume can never be
justified. Is that the take-away?
|3.23.07 @ 2:02PM|#
I guess the justification of preemption lies along a continuum. At one end is Iraq, where the threat is purely speculative and political, and closer to the other end is Israel's 1967 preemptive attack. There was never any real doubt that Israel was going to be attacked. With Iraq it was pretty clear that the US was never going to be attacked by Iraq. Ever.
Help for libertarians|3.23.07 @ 2:05PM|#
Fun facts you won't learn from teh hacks at Reason:
* HezbollahTerrorists have actually entered illegally over the
border; they were only caught one year later (details at the
link).
* The contention that there "have been no terrorist attacks linked
to illegal border crossings" depends on your definition of
"linked". The 911Hijackers got DriversLicenses due to the
IllegalImmigration infrastructure.
* Others - including non-elected government officals - have spoken
about attempts by terrorists to "Mexicanize" themselves in order to
infiltrate the U.S.
* Read the 911Commission StaffReport, specifically Chapter3.
On a side note, could Reason post an "off topic" thread just for
cutesy comments, leaving more space for a grown-up discussion of
these matters? (Of course, you'd need to import grown-ups from
other sites to provide content, but that's an implementation
issue).
|3.23.07 @ 2:19PM|#
Because the very nature of preemption assumes that the other
party has not done anything against your interests, but may do so
in the future.
You're conflating two different concepts. If, for example, a
country is loading anthrax onto drones on the tarmac, and you
launch a cruise missle at them, that's pre-emptive.
However, if a shady exile tells you a tall tale about said drones,
and you strike, that's preventative.
|3.23.07 @ 2:26PM|#
Happy Jack:
Assuming you meant "preventive" I have to disagree. Both preemptive
attacks and preventive attacks are the same thing, differing only
in the post facto legal justification. In other words, the same
sequence of events will be called preventive by opponents and
preemptive by supporters.
You are correct that these are two different concepts, but they
differ only in the rhetoric of how real the threat is.
Mark|3.23.07 @ 2:39PM|#
Quick serious comment: I find it easy to laugh off Hugo Chavez himself, but much harder to laugh off the ideas he's promoting.
|3.23.07 @ 2:57PM|#
Hugo Chavez undoubtedly has a future appointment with a bullet
fired by some Venezuelan junior colonel and his friends. Pretty
much just Juan Peron without the blond wife.
Of course, after a few years the Venezuelan peasantry is going to
discover that they are still living in the same hillside hovels,
and that all of that oil wealth has *magically disappeared*. How
could that happen?
|3.23.07 @ 2:58PM|#
Both preemptive attacks and preventive attacks are the same
thing, differing only in the post facto legal
justification.
Lamar, that's not my understanding of international law. While you
could quibble about the meaning of "imminent", they differentiate
between short and long-term threats. See
here.
|3.23.07 @ 3:10PM|#
First, international law is not like the law of a country. There
is no precedent and very weak enforcement. The whole thing is based
on post facto justifications. I know that there is a difference in
concepts, but that difference is nothing more than a post facto
justification.
Second, the article you cited concedes, as it must, that the whole
issue is self-defense (nobody disputes war after an actual attack).
Whether we call it preemptive or preventive hinges on whether we
see it as self-defense. And yes, there is a full analysis of the
facts, but my point stands: preemtive and preventive are words that
are applied after the determination is made regarding
self-defense.
Third, read the piece before you make assertions that are contrary.
A mere presence or transfer of weapons is never enough to justify
an invasion.
Fifth, see my continuum argument above, perhaps we agree more than
you think.
|3.23.07 @ 3:17PM|#
"A mere presence or transfer of weapons is never enough to
justify an invasion."
That article is way to long to read at work(I'm lazy). Are you
saying article makes this statement?
|3.23.07 @ 3:32PM|#
lonewacko, will terrorists who are "Mexicanizing" themselves be like Sean Connery in You Only Live Twice becoming "Japanese," because if so, I imagine they'll be easy to spot.
Disappointed Moose|3.23.07 @ 3:40PM|#
FFF:
Even with the shaved chest???
Bond resembled Cartman's disguise when he tried to sneak into the
Special Olympics...
/disappointed snort
|3.23.07 @ 3:42PM|#
FinFangFoom,
Just look for the dudes who talk like Cheech Martin, those would be
your Mexicanized Islamo-SuperNanny terrorists.
Here\'s an example|3.23.07 @ 3:55PM|#
Obviously, grown-ups know that it's difficult for non-Japanese
to pass as Japanese. However, with other ethnicities it's not so
difficult. Some Middle-Easterners try to pass as Italian or Greek
for instance.
An example of an Egyptian IllegalAlien pretending to be one
MiguelAlfonsoSalinas at the link.
|3.23.07 @ 4:07PM|#
StupendousMan:
"Are you saying article makes this statement?"
I would say that is the general consensus of international law over
the last 100 years or so.
|3.23.07 @ 4:11PM|#
Also, if I've learned anything from TV and Movies, its that whenever you look at a Muslim terrorist or something is about to happen, there's that Middle Eastern plaintive music. I think its the call to prayer, but it doubles as the terrorist leitmotif.
|3.23.07 @ 4:20PM|#
You mean all we have to do is close up the border and the
terrorist can't get us?!
Some one should send the memo to Israel. I hear they have a little
suicide bomber problem over there. And such a small border too.
Damn shame I tell ya.
Wacko makes a good point (if you squint real hard): Italians and
Greeks would NEVER want to be mistaken for middle easterners. Could
you imagine? But with kids these days, one can never know.
|3.23.07 @ 4:27PM|#
If NYC's Little Italy is any indication, it isn't too difficult for Turkish men to pass as Italians.
VM|3.23.07 @ 4:30PM|#
"Italians and Greeks would NEVER want to be mistaken for middle
easterners. Could you imagine? But with kids these days, one can
never know."
good call:
cuz they all look
same..... (hmmm)
"Mr Whackjob,
Maybe another blog would take you seriously."
Like:
hier(SFW)?
|3.23.07 @ 4:34PM|#
"Of course, after a few years the Venezuelan peasantry is going
to discover that they are still living in the same hillside hovels,
and that all of that oil wealth has *magically disappeared*. How
could that happen?" - ChrisO
Sadly, this prediction is almost 100% likely to prove true...
See also, Jean-Bertrand Aristide and Haiti, Republic of. Here's a
guy who came into power on the backs of the poor - in a democratic
election, no less - then basically did nothing to help the poor
people who had voted for him -after being put back into the
presidency by U.S./U.N. military force. The slums of Cite Soleil,
for instance, were as horrible as eer, the literacy rate still at a
Hemisphere-wide low...
If you can't trust a Catholic priest from the slums to do right by
the poor, rather than line his own pockets, who CAN you trust??
|3.23.07 @ 4:48PM|#
If you can't trust a Catholic priest from the slums to do
right by the poor, rather than line his own pockets, who CAN you
trust??
A doctrinaire neo-Marxist with authoritarian tendencies and a
sycophantic following in lefty salons?
|3.23.07 @ 4:50PM|#
"Hugo Chavez undoubtedly has a future appointment with a bullet
fired by some Venezuelan junior colonel and his friends. Pretty
much just Juan Peron without the blond wife."
We should hope not. Chavez came to power through democratic
elections. We should be hoping that he gets removed from power
through democratic elections. Right now, as bad as Chavez is, his
continuation in office until his removal by the voters represents a
rare oppotunity for constitutional democracy to take hold, and for
coups and bloody rebellions to become part of Venezuela's
past.
It's time for conservatives who've spent the past four years
patting themselves on the back for their supporting democracy to
bite the bullet, and recognize that a genuine commitment to
democratic politics is a for-better-or-for-worse proposition.
|3.23.07 @ 4:56PM|#
'A doctrinaire neo-Marxist with authoritarian tendencies and a
sycophantic following in lefty salons?" - RC Dean
Hmmm... Let's see...
No.
Final answer.
What do I win?
The Wine Commonsewer|3.23.07 @ 5:20PM|#
I dunno, Lunchstealer's was good, but Timothy is the real thread
winner......
I was divorced from reality once, the bitch took half my
stuff.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.23.07 @ 5:25PM|#
Now hang on, LoneWhacko does have a point, my good friend El Jeronimo de Crow, an Orangian of Mexican descent was constantly mistaken for an Arab while traveling the world. OTOH, my buddy Gonzalez is 6' 4" and as light skinned as the Pillsbury Doughboy, and he's not even a citizen.
TLB|3.23.07 @ 8:01PM|#
Anywho, here's a list of some of the things that the
"libertarians" of Reason support:
- Massive PoliticalCorruption
- Massive LawBreaking
- Massive CorporateSubsidies
- Forced, Involuntary DemographicChange
- Increased PoliticalPower for the MexicanGovernment and FarLeft
and RacialPower groups
- An inability to provide a NationalDefense
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's a fun page:
cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/CA/P/00/
Libertarian: Badnarik: 50,165 1%
Green Cobb: 40,771 0%
Peace & Freedom: Peltier 27,607 0%
Pluses: He got *almost twice as many votes as
LeonardPeltier*.
Minuses: 199 out of 200 people didn't vote for him. I guess in the
marketplace of ideas, Libertarianism is a penny stock.
SIV|3.23.07 @ 9:13PM|#
joe
There was another "Democratically elected"
politician-back in the early-mid 20th Century,
somewhere in Central Europe.......
Seriously, as you outed yourself as a CIA supporter in the Valerie
Plame kerfuflle, you should support the American instigated
assasination of Hugo Chavez as a threat to our interests. I mean
c'mon joe you pledged patriotic alleigance to the CIA and that is
what they DO....at least when they are being effective.
|3.23.07 @ 11:15PM|#
As we are found of saying at the James Randi Educational
Foundation forums when someone makes an insane statement like
this:
"Evidence, please?"
|3.24.07 @ 12:02AM|#
[ If you can't trust a Catholic priest from the slums to do
right by the poor, rather than line his own pockets, who CAN you
trust??
A doctrinaire neo-Marxist with authoritarian tendencies and a
sycophantic following in lefty salons? ]
Okay, I'm going to nominate R C Dean as the winner of this thread.
In fact, I'd almost be willing to donate the first part of my
handle as his prize.
Goldwater Conservative|3.24.07 @ 4:32AM|#
I guess in the marketplace of ideas, Libertarianism is a
penny stock.
Is this a popularity contest or something? The lack of acceptance
of an idea doesn't reflect on the idea but those that accept or
reject it. Since we are a fun time with stats, here is one for
you:
In 1948, about 90% of American Adults opposed interracial marriage
when the Supreme Court of California legalized it, and California
became the first state that allowed loving, committed interracial
couples to marry.
In 1967, about 72% were opposed to interracial marriage. This was
the year when the U.S. Supreme Court was legalized interracial
marriage everywhere in the U.S.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_marp.htm
Guy Montag|3.24.07 @ 8:39AM|#
With Iraq it was pretty clear that the US was never going to
be attacked by Iraq. Ever.
Are you talking about then they invaded our ally and we kicked them
out, or are you talking about when they were shooting at us and our
allies for 10 years before we ousted their leadership?
steveintheknow,
Seems someone mentioned this to Israel a few years ago and they
built a series of walls and cut the suicide bombing rate down to
almost 0. Noe that you have been informed, can you please tell that
Israeli judge to stop moving the path of the wall and just let them
finish?
Maybe you were talking about the rockets landing in Isreal, from
Gaza.
VM|3.24.07 @ 8:58AM|#
AuH2OC:
"loving, committed ... couples to marry."
well, if you check out some of the christian conservative types who
masquerade as "theocratarians" here, they don't understand that
fact in gay marriage. They only think (fantasize?) about what
imagine sexual practice is like.
they don't get it.
biologist|3.24.07 @ 9:20AM|#
Guy, clearly he's talking about the inability of Iraq to
directly attack us on our borders - the actual, geographic
boundaries of the US
VM:
yoo da man!
Guy Montag|3.24.07 @ 9:23AM|#
Guy, clearly he's talking about the inability of Iraq to
directly attack us on our borders - the actual, geographic
boundaries of the US
So I have to go into some long speech about how we can be attacked
outside of our borders and it should still "count"? Or that
attacking our allies "counts" too?
Guy Montag|3.24.07 @ 9:26AM|#
well, if you check out some of the christian conservative
types who masquerade as "theocratarians" here, they don't
understand that fact in gay marriage. They only think (fantasize?)
about what imagine sexual practice is like.
That is certainly correct. On the other side of the coin you have a
group of people who don't get that opposition to marriage as a
bureaucratic means of property and benefit distrobution is not
opposition to them.
VM|3.24.07 @ 10:38AM|#
Biologist:
:)
Thank you, but YOO are da man!
You're the Capitan of the Pigskin Bus to Tuna Town!
(think: scene where Dr. Rosenberg meets Dracula at the fancy
restaurant where they try hypnotizing each other to sleep:
[you're getting sleepy
[no you are
[no *you* are])
dhex, masochistic liberal|3.24.07 @ 11:33AM|#
"- Forced, Involuntary DemographicChange"
white woman #1: oh you brown brutes! help me! help me!
[swoon]
you forgot to mention marijuana and jazz - i mean, tejano.
TLB|3.24.07 @ 4:34PM|#
What we've been undergoing for the last four decades and
especially the last decade is indeed a DemographicChange. We can
agree on that, right?
And, does anyone recall voting on that change? Hasn't it been
accomplished through various forms of skullduggery, including
trying to smear those who merely point out that there's a change
and it's been involuntary?
Should we add Lysenkoiiissmmm to the list of LibertarianSins?
On a related note, meet your new voters:
submedia.tv/gigante/home_en.htm
|3.24.07 @ 5:26PM|#
They only think (fantasize?) about what imagine sexual
practice is like.
Just ask Ted Haggard.
|3.24.07 @ 7:31PM|#
SIV,
"There was another "Democratically elected"
politician-back in the early-mid 20th Century,
somewhere in Central Europe......."
Yes, one who, upon taking power, was able to eliminate the
democratic process and rule as a dictator thereafter.
Thank you for making my point for me - allowing the democratic
process to be subverted is a disaster for our security and
interests.
"I mean c'mon joe you pledged patriotic alleigance to the CIA and
that is what they DO....at least when they are being
effective."
You mean like Iran 1956? Yeah, THAT sure turned out to be smart
move.
|3.24.07 @ 7:35PM|#
Also, SIV, the CIA engaged in skullduggerly like that when ordered to by their superiors in the White House. I support da troops, whether in uniform or undercover, but that's quite a different thing than supporting every dumbass or corrupt policy dreamed up by the people who give them marching orders.
Guy Montag|3.24.07 @ 8:58PM|#
As pointed out by Eric S., it is the stupidity of Pearce Adams,
or his editor, for the Chavez confusion:
He said Venezuelan President Cesar Chavez is "teaching al-Qaeda and people like that, terrorists, how to come across the border, look like Mexicans, act like Mexicans and understand how to talk in this country. They're coming across just as fast as the Mexicans cross."
Perhaps he is bucking for a job with Lee Seigel at
TNR?
|3.25.07 @ 2:49AM|#
why can't we just stay the hell home, in our OWN country, and mind our own damn business??? there's not a whole helluva lot of countries that like us anyway so let's leave them to take on their own crap & go on like in the past over here....you know, like, say a mexican wants to come here & do the jobs our own sorry, ill-raised, spoiled-brat children of this generation won't partake of, let them come on in....i am sorry but our own govt. is the problem. let's see...if we go thru the alphabet we could find a word for each letter that our own wonderful country DOES NOT allow in our FREE home...or like the letter D.. "deceit" comes to mind....letter B.... bombing our own people....letter T...trust a government worker???? that's what's insane....i don't even care if it's the damn dog catcher....no no no...
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