State Senators Squelch Spanking and Smoking

Katherine Mangu-Ward | January 31, 2007

The California state assemblywoman(?) from Google's home turf want to ban spanking:

The emotional debate over spanking reignited in California when Assembly Speaker Pro Tem Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, said she plans to introduce a bill this week outlawing anyone from swatting children age 3 and younger. Violators could face up to a year in jail or a $1,000 fine.

Some people aren't pleased:

The public reaction to her announcement has been fierce. Lieber has been swamped with requests for national media interviews, her staff said. Her opponents are telling the legislator, who has no children, to butt out. The harshest critics have been calling her office and cursing at interns who answer her phones.

Meanwhile, New Jersey is on its way to banning smoking in cars with kids. Can good parenting be legislated? A passel of state senators are sure as hell going to try. After all, it's "for the children."

Comments

|1.31.07 @ 5:45PM|#

Assault and battery charges would be brought against anybody who beat up his neighbor. Can neighborliness be legislated? If stupid questions were illegal, Hit and Run posts would be severly reduced.

|1.31.07 @ 5:47PM|#

So then when I am stuck in a 3 hour traffic jam on the Jersey turnpike after driving 12 hours up 95 I guess I'll have to stop the car and get out to have a butt.

|1.31.07 @ 5:53PM|#

Edward,

Reading your comment, I assume that's self-referential.

Christopher Monnier|1.31.07 @ 5:53PM|#

Society should stop having children so that they don't have to die.

|1.31.07 @ 5:54PM|#

Edward, I've never spanked and never will, but you can't compare swatting a kid's butt and beating up a neighbor. I mean you can, but then people won't take you seriously.

|1.31.07 @ 5:57PM|#

I always have a smoke after I have a spank.

|1.31.07 @ 6:09PM|#

What if we spank our children for smoking?

|1.31.07 @ 6:17PM|#

Smoke 'em for spanking.

|1.31.07 @ 6:33PM|#

Is the rate of nanny-state measures being introduced actually going up? Or is it only in my head? I mean in the last few months and years we have restaurant smoking bans, fois gras bans, trans-fat bans and smoking in car bans up next.

Are legislators being spurred on by the passage of such laws to create more you think? Or is it more of a "hey I didn't even realise we could ban things like that!"

|1.31.07 @ 6:40PM|#

WHY IS EVERYONE AT REASON AGAINST THE CHILDREN?!?

WHY DO YOU HATE CHILDREN? IS IT BECAUSE OF A PERSONAL PROBLEM???

Bryan|1.31.07 @ 6:46PM|#

The folks at Reaon don't hate children. They love them. They're delicious.

tros|1.31.07 @ 6:50PM|#

Society should stop having children so that they don't have to die.

http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/

Some very cynical people who take a lot of MDMA.

"The Church has only one commandment, and it is 'Thou Shalt Not Procreate.' In addition, we have four "pillars" or principles, which are Suicide, Abortion, Cannibalism and Sodomy."

Spankhead|1.31.07 @ 7:05PM|#

Her opponents are telling the legislator, who has no children, to butt out

Heh. Heh-heh.

|1.31.07 @ 7:05PM|#

"WHY IS EVERYONE AT REASON AGAINST THE CHILDREN?!?

WHY DO YOU HATE CHILDREN? IS IT BECAUSE OF A PERSONAL PROBLEM???"

I don't hate children. Just people who don't notice that they've left the capslock key on because they're too busy forcibly sodomizing the question mark button.

Mike Laursen|1.31.07 @ 7:06PM|#

Trying to be as annoying as Lieber, but not quite succeeding, California Assemblyman Lloyd Levine introduced a bill today to ban incandescent light bulbs.

|1.31.07 @ 7:07PM|#

I suspect the unintended consequence of this bill, if passed, won't become apparent for about 8 years, when 12 year olds are mentioning about how they were spanked when they were 3.

|1.31.07 @ 7:10PM|#

What's the penalty for spanking an assemblywoman?

|1.31.07 @ 7:15PM|#

Frankly, depending on the severity of the beating, I'm wary of charging the neighbor too. I mean, jeez, can't anybody have a decent fistfight anymore without the cops getting involved?

Hijack but not really|1.31.07 @ 7:40PM|#

can't anybody have a decent fistfight anymore without the cops getting involved?

Problem is, the fistfight might be consensual, but the next morning she regrets it, and * boom!* - Duke lacrosse.

Why don't we leave it up to the kids to say retroactively, when they reach 21, whether or not their folks accurately assessed their implied consent at age 0-3? That should simplify things.

Jennifer|1.31.07 @ 7:52PM|#

So it's okat to swat kids after their fourth birthday, but before then you must get them to behave through sweet, sweet reason?

Four-year-old tries sticking a fork into an electrical socket: SMACK!

Two-year-old tries sticking a fork into an electrical socket: "No, dear, you must not do that because the high voltage can have deleterious effects upon your health, since human bodies are remarkably conducive to electrical currents."

I think a spanking ban is stupid in any case, but if I DID support such a ban I'd do it the opposite of ths one: ban spanking AFTER age 4, when the kids are theoretically old enough to have some semblance of critical-thinking faculties.

|1.31.07 @ 7:54PM|#

This is like the Washington no-sex-with-doctors bill. It can't be enforced absent tattle-tales, which means it will only be enforced as a custody battleground in divorce cases.

The children will not be protected like this--it's a perfect example of legislation-by-diktat instead of legislation-by-problemsolving.

|1.31.07 @ 7:56PM|#

Jennifer,

That's an excellent point.

[Aside: Jennifer made a reasoned response to an issue about kids. Time to reread Revelations. This may be one of the signs.]

|1.31.07 @ 7:58PM|#

NO one will take away the right to spank their neighbors, or will they.. God I hope not.

|1.31.07 @ 8:04PM|#

"What's the penalty for spanking an assemblywoman?"

Another term as an Assembly Page.

|1.31.07 @ 8:04PM|#

highnumber,

Jennifer only made that case because she believes that capital (as opposed to corporal) punishment for sticking a form in an electrical socket would be best described as "late-term abortion."

I only partially kid.

Jennifer|1.31.07 @ 8:17PM|#

I think you guys are confusing me with some other posters here. I don't try to hide the fact that I don't want kids, but I'm not one to make comments about how children make tasty dinners or the like. My only beef is with parents who think I bear as much responsibility for their kids as they themselves do.

Shame on you all for falling into the trap of collective thinking. You should know better than that.

I only partially kid.

|1.31.07 @ 8:27PM|#

Anybody remember Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns?
There's a page where the leader of the Mutants gang is in jail and he asks the police officer guarding him if the officer has kids. Then there's a frame where the gang leader says "Just asking - I love kids," and he has this sick as hell smile on his face. That's how I picture Jennifer.

Jennifer, I tease. You have an over-the-top style and little patience for kids. It's a fun button to push. No offense, please.

I totally kid.

Jennifer|1.31.07 @ 8:34PM|#

little patience for kids.

You're still confusing me with someone else, dear.

|1.31.07 @ 8:42PM|#

Jennifer,

Go do your nails.

|1.31.07 @ 8:42PM|#

Every legislature should be required to repeal the 10 most ignorant laws under their control before being allowed to adjurn. They couldn't possibly come up with that many new stupid laws, could they?

Oops, you're right. We may have to up that number substantially.

Jennifer|1.31.07 @ 8:46PM|#

Edward, surely you can do better than that. You're slipping.

|1.31.07 @ 8:58PM|#

Physical force is the thing, but you have to use it on kids who are too small to strike back.

Jennifer|1.31.07 @ 9:03PM|#

That's better. Not much better, but better nonetheless.

|1.31.07 @ 9:07PM|#

The other day I saw in the paper that a legislator in my state (WV) introduced a bill to the same effect: Ban smoking with kids in the car. Of course it was accompanied by the usual boilerplate "We-must-protect-the-most-vulnerable" and the usual lies "I-have-nothing-against-smoking-but-we-must-protect-the-children".
Sometimes I despair. Nanny is just becoming overwhelming. Worst thing is, I can't even get anyone excited to fight Nanny. I get treated like a meddlesome idiot trying to make waves about nothing important.
Any educated guesses what issue will actually get people off the couch and face Nanny?

Jennifer|1.31.07 @ 9:11PM|#

Any educated guesses what issue will actually get people off the couch and face Nanny?

If Nanny tried to force them off the couch to exercise For Their Own Good. One of us needs to volunteer to be a Machiavellian deep-cover operative who tries to ban television and require all couches to be too uncomfortable to sit on for more than half an hour at a time.

But not me. One of you guys can do it.

|1.31.07 @ 9:15PM|#

"I get treated like a meddlesome idiot trying to make waves about nothing important."

Martin, they might be on to something. I mean, the people who treat you that way.

Jennifer|1.31.07 @ 9:20PM|#

MUCH better, Edward! Turning someone's own words against them beats the hell out of resorting to some lame knee-jerk gender stereotype. You may make the troll hall of fame yet if you keep this up, boy.

Extra credit: turn my "knee jerk" comment into a crude sexual comment. You can do it! I have faith in you!

Kent Brockman|1.31.07 @ 9:24PM|#

I'm sure the Progressives will drop their "for the children" Nannyism as part of the fusion deal

I, for one, welcome our new bright liberaltarian future.

|1.31.07 @ 9:35PM|#

Jennifer,

I would never assume that the vapidness of your posts is gender specific. Anyway, who really knows anybody's gender here? Get up early today? How was the traffic?

Jennifer|1.31.07 @ 9:49PM|#

Oh, Edward, you'll never be a hall-of-famer at this rate. After an early fumble with the "do your nails" comment, you gained valuable yardage with your quip to Martin, but resorting to random insults like "vapid" is just running out the clock when you don't have enough points to make that strategy viable.

Perhaps you should go to bed now, and try again tomorrow when you've had a nice, refreshing night's sleep and can be at your bright-eyed, bushy-tailed trollerific best.

Believe in yourself, Edward. I do.

|1.31.07 @ 11:15PM|#

See, I thought the nails thing was hilarious. I could visualize Jennifer working intensely over some crazy set. To make a style statement.

As a useless anecdotal contribution, when I was a little kid I got the snot whacked out of me when I deserved it, both at school and at home. I'm old enough to have had paddles on my bare butt (hard), rulers across my palm (also hard), and bars of soap wedged in my mouth. I turned out OK! See, I'm a libertarian!

|1.31.07 @ 11:59PM|#

You're still confusing me with someone else, dear.

Okay.

|2.1.07 @ 2:20AM|#

It's not the hitting or lack of hitting that makes people turn out well or poorly. It's the connection of punishment to deed and reinforcement of the moral lesson.

You can spank, you can ground, you can take away toys, whatever--what makes the difference is if the kid knows why they're being punished and is made to feel bad about having done whatever they did.

Step on a crack|2.1.07 @ 4:38AM|#

made to feel bad about having done whatever they did

Presuming that it's worth feeling bad about; installing inappropriate guilt doesn't help children turn out well either.

Dan|2.1.07 @ 7:52AM|#

There is some sort of weird foreplay going on with Jennifer and Edward... it's like a train wreck of insecure intellect. I have to watch. The misogynist meets the misandrist and find themselves envious of each other.

Could we get a sex change so the roles fit the statements ?

That aside, it amazes me that anyone is surprised at any of this. Society has been convinced they are too ignorant and incapable of protecting themselves, or thinking for themselves, so it stands to reason they shouldn't be able to care for their children.

What I find sad is everyone sits around watching this, commenting, then going back to the couch and TV.

BTW... Careful with threatening to spank a govt. official. You could be labeled a terrorist since you are threatening violence to change politics.

|2.1.07 @ 8:54AM|#

If we want to encourage good paranting, why would we encourage certain (low income, mostly) parents to spend additional time AWAY from the child? Wouldn't it be better for the child to hang out and talk with the parents while they smoked than to be left alone in a car or in a ohuse while to parent snuck out for a smoke?

A lot of these bans don't even make sense to me on the basic plausibility level. Also, the California ban on indoor smoking: great idea. Here we are in a state that has major wildfire problems. Lets now pass a law that encourages people to take small burning objects outside on hot dry days. Great!

|2.1.07 @ 9:34AM|#

Wouldn't it be better for the child to hang out and talk with the parents while they smoked than to be left alone in a car or in a house while to parent snuck out for a smoke?

There's the rub, Doug. If parents leave the child unattended while they smoke, they're neglectful parents. If parents smoke in the presence of the child, they're abusive parents. The only option is to not smoke at all.

The spanking ban works on a similar principle. If your toddler tries to touch the hot stove top, and you spank her for it, you're a child abuser. If she burns her hand on the stove, not only is your child badly injured, but you're a neglectful parent as well.

|2.1.07 @ 10:11AM|#

Sounds like the person in need of being spanked is this woman pushing this crap. No kids but she knows whats best for everyone with kids. What better example of the big headed nature of politicians these days to dictate to us all what is best for us. Has anyone ever seen a election for the seat of NANNY?

I vote to bitch slap this home invader nanny of the state. These people actually think by being elected that their personal outlooks are what everyone wants them to make law. Sounds like someone was infertile and now has a grudge against those that could conceive and want/need to discipline their kids. I am sure as a non-fruit bearing fruit that she is she thinks all kiddies are angels and if ONLY she had one she would never do that to them, thus she must make sure you can't to yours.

Of course she will also be running later on a platform for what we now need to do with all the kids that are running wild and suggest another government program to address the issue, the one shes helping to create. Typical BS of creating more of a problem than ever would have existed without their all knowing wisdom being imposed on the masses.

Good luck enforcing this one. A year in jail, I hope they have a great foster child care program in Ca.

To think a majority of voters elected this woman and others like her is scary shit indeed.

Without a paddle|2.1.07 @ 10:51AM|#

seat of NANNY

Heh.

|2.1.07 @ 12:35PM|#

Why don't we leave it up to the kids to say retroactively, when they reach 21, whether or not their folks accurately assessed their implied consent at age 0-3? That should simplify things.

How about consent to second-hand smoke. My daughters claim that they like the smell of my cigar smoke.

Suffer the little children|2.1.07 @ 9:58PM|#

daughters claim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consciousness

Paul|2.2.07 @ 12:47AM|#

Jennifer,

Go do your nails.

Edward, go do yours.

Uh-oh|2.2.07 @ 9:39PM|#

Do mine! Do Mine!

|2.5.07 @ 9:04PM|#

When I was a kid I didn't get the little love taps that's called spanking nowadays, I got a wooden spoon on the bare butt, enough that it hurt hours later. And that doesn't account for how miserable being grounded afterward was. That notwithstanding, I certainly don't wish that old maid do-gooders like Sally Lieber had been around to "protect" me from my mom's discipline!