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Missouri Makes Way for Xenu
The Church of Scientology has set up an exhibit attacking psychiatry in the rotunda of the Missouri state capitol building:
The "Industry of Death" exhibit is sponsored by the Church of Scientology and makes a host of outrageous claims about the field of psychiatry. Twenty-five percent of psychiatrists sexually abuse their patients. Psychiatrists deliberately kill about 10,000 people a year - sounds about right. And for the big surprise, psychiatrists were responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks - guilty by association, at least, since psychiatrists are responsible for the existence of terrorists and suicide bombers.
Having known a number of people immeasurably helped by psychiatry and pharmaceutical remedies to depression, anxiety, and like maladies, I part ways with many of my fellow libertarians on the issue of mental health (that is, I disagree with those who think mental illness isn't real, and that pyscyhiatry is a crock).
Still, I'm sure we can all come together and agree that psychiatrists aren't systematically murdering people, and didn't cause September 11.
(Disclosure: Growing up, both my parents worked for pharmaceutical giant and sworn Scientology enemy Eli Lilly & Co.)
|1.11.07 @ 9:40AM|#
Still, I'm sure we can all come together and agree that
psychiatrists aren't systematically murdering people, and didn't
cause September 11.
Still, I'm sure we can all come together and agree that
Scientologists aren't sane or rational.
pigwiggle|1.11.07 @ 9:45AM|#
I part ways with many of my fellow libertarians on the issue
of mental health (that is, I disagree with those who think mental
illness isn't real, and that pyscyhiatry is a crock).
I've never heard from these folks. Th vocal fringe, maybe?
VM|1.11.07 @ 9:50AM|#
Radley:
agreed. The world of psychiatry does boast its share of quacks,
etc, maybe more than other in the health profession, but you're
right: good, credible mental health professionals, sometimes in
conjunction with pharma, and always with individual effort do make
a positive difference.
But the Scientologists have been distracting us from Big Branson.
That's right. Branson and Scientologists. And Mormons. And
Presbyterians (USA flavor). They're in THE conspiracy of BIG
BRANSON. (This is the only combination of pure evil that keeps both
Yakov Smirnoff and Andy Williams onstage).
|1.11.07 @ 9:55AM|#
1) What is this doing in the rotunda of a capital
building?
2) Separation of Church and State isn't just for smacking those
pesky Christians. If the 10 Commandments aren't appropriate wall
decorations, then scientology propaganda isn't either.
I. Self. Divine.|1.11.07 @ 9:57AM|#
Am I the only one that sees anything wrong with this exhibit being in the capitol building?
Guy Montag|1.11.07 @ 9:59AM|#
Twenty-five percent of psychiatrists sexually abuse their
patients.
Amazingly, 95% of statistics in non-statistical publications are
just made up.
Percentage increases exponentially with the publication's proximity
to Manhattan Island or San Francisco.
|1.11.07 @ 10:03AM|#
I think I fall in line with the consensus here on both scientology and psychology, but I sure would go watch a concert by any band named Big Branson.
|1.11.07 @ 10:05AM|#
"Twenty-five percent of psychiatrists sexually abuse their
patients. Psychiatrists deliberately kill about 10,000 people a
year...."
Will we soon be seeing an elite corps of psychiatrists parachuted
into Sadr City?
VM|1.11.07 @ 10:05AM|#
JB, Self:
Might it be a part of a temporary exhibit at the Mo State Museum?
Which according to Jefferson City's web site, is in the Capitol
Bldg?
|1.11.07 @ 10:11AM|#
Aren't the scientologists the ones who have a gulag for recalcitant members wherein they are forced to do demeaning tasks, abused, fed
|1.11.07 @ 10:12AM|#
Since when do libertarians oppose psychiatry? My philosophy is pretty much that, hey, if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out doing whatever you please (barring the obvious like harming others, fraud, etc)
|1.11.07 @ 10:13AM|#
Aren't the scientologists the ones who have a gulag for
recalcitant members wherein they are forced to do demeaning tasks,
abused, fed a starvation diet and deprived of sleep?
Well I guess in the spirit of "it takes one to know one" the
scientologists must be good at identifying abusers.
Preview is my friend. Preview is my friend.
I.Self.Divine.|1.11.07 @ 10:13AM|#
I suppose taht if that were indeed the case, I would feel better about it, or at least as good as I can feel about anything scientology related. I'm still pissed that not only will Tom Cruise not come out of the closet, but that he has pulled my Katie in there with him. That bastard...
|1.11.07 @ 10:16AM|#
"Aren't the scientologists the ones who have a gulag for
recalcitant members wherein they are forced to do demeaning tasks,
abused, fed"
They are also forced to incubate the fetuses of higher profile
members.
J. Scott Christianson (author of the linked piece), will soon learn
that you don't fuck with the Scientology mafia just like the
Jayhawks / Golden Smog boys learned that you don't fuck with the
Branson mafia.
I.Self.Divine.|1.11.07 @ 10:16AM|#
I also was unaware that libertarians had something against psychiatry. I thought we all loved drugs of all sorts.
|1.11.07 @ 10:19AM|#
Radley (aka Boo),
Both your parents worked for Eli Lilly when they were growing up?
Doesn't that violate sundry and various child labor laws?
|1.11.07 @ 10:19AM|#
"But the Scientologists have been distracting us from Big
Branson. That's right. Branson and Scientologists. And Mormons. And
Presbyterians (USA flavor). They're in THE conspiracy of BIG
BRANSON. (This is the only combination of pure evil that keeps both
Yakov Smirnoff and Andy Williams onstage)."
hilarious! i've always just imagined this cutthroat seedy noir
underside to the world of branson where shoji and the baldknobbers
probably have scores to settle with smirnoff and williams, etc. all
this intrigue boiling under the surface where the drunken hoosiers
at "the lake" will never notice.
oh, and i think the rantings of scientologists are probably the
most coherent words to come out of jeff city
since...well...yeah.
|1.11.07 @ 10:23AM|#
Jn
I have run accross libertarians who oppose psychiatrists for two
reasons:
Most psychiatric theories are nothing more than a hodgepodge of
empirical rules. These rules sometimes contradict each other, and
are not really testable.
Frequently these theories are used to justify the
disenfranchisement of individuals. People can be kidnapped
(involuntarily committed), forced to ingest medicines they don't
want etc.
This is, in my mind, a quite legitimate complaint:
My wife suffers from endometriosis, which is a debilitating and
painful disease. If one looks at the DSM or the analogue from the
1980's, 20 short years ago, one will find a disease called
somatism.
Somatism's symptoms are identical to those of endometriosis. The
treatments recommended for somatism are demeaning and mostly
pointless, amounting to attempting to force women to permit their
husbands to have sex with them. For a woman whose endometriosis
makes sex painful, a diagnosis and treatment for somatism will make
her life hell on earth.
That is not to say all psychiatry is bad. It's just that the
science is still in the middle ages, and should be treated with a
grain of salt.
^^^^^^^^^|1.11.07 @ 10:27AM|#
The problem with psychiatry for libertarians is the involuntary
aspect of it(as well as evading personal resposibility).The
non-libertarian problem is that psychiatry is a steaming pile off
bs with no basis in science.Psychiatry is about as scientific as
Scientology.
Go read some Thomas Szasz.
|1.11.07 @ 10:27AM|#
Downstater- Haven't you heard of the new music act in Branson- Bloody Bill and the Bushwackers? Their biggest hit is a rap number called "By the time I get to Lawrence."
VM|1.11.07 @ 10:29AM|#
"where the drunken hoosiers at "the lake" will never notice.
"
Oh- you've met my uncle Bob (except for the drunken part, you
located him perfectly) grin.
Self: yeah. And may you get your gift of Katie back.
|1.11.07 @ 10:33AM|#
All religions are equal, but some are more equal than others. I hope the ACLU has a lawsuit pending.
Guy Montag|1.11.07 @ 10:36AM|#
Wow, I should have realized that the Dr. Szasz fans
would be slithering out from the woodwork, but I was taken by
surprise.
I live to see the theories of how mental disorders are just made up
to oppress folks who are just expressing themselves 'differently'.
Could never be any value in something that a few praticioners abuse
or are just bad at doing, eh?
|1.11.07 @ 10:38AM|#
You're being glib.
I wonder what the percentage of psychiatrists who inevitably give
in and sleep with one of their current (unethical) or former (not
necessarily unethical)patients is. I doubt it is all that much
although I have seen it occur with my own thetan-addled eyes.
|1.11.07 @ 10:40AM|#
Guy,
What Dr Szasz fans?
One post by some guy named ^^^^^^ does not make a slithering mass
of fans.
|1.11.07 @ 10:46AM|#
Scientologists hate psychiatrists because psychiatrists are their main competition for lost lonely souls.
Guy Montag|1.11.07 @ 10:47AM|#
Guy,
What Dr Szasz fans?
Everybody mentioning what was in the body of my post. I did not
even see the other invocation of Dr. Szasz until after I
posted.
^^^^^^^|1.11.07 @ 10:49AM|#
Anyone should be free to contract with any "healer" he likes for
treatment, services,counsel etc.
Psychiatry aspires to the ultimate Nanny State
Szasz' writings are not merely a well reasoned debunking of
Psychiatry but are a broad argument for the libertarian
philosophy.His works belong on the shelf right next to Hayek and
Friedman.
uncle sam|1.11.07 @ 10:50AM|#
Have scientologist always been this weird or have they been getting weirder?
dhex|1.11.07 @ 10:50AM|#
you should blog about it!
the idea of an aclu v. scientology grudge match makes my mouth
water, though distracting them from their main body of work
(throwing ice cubes at leviathan) is probably not the best of ideas
until bush the younger is out of office.
uncle sam|1.11.07 @ 10:53AM|#
Szasz' writings are not merely a well reasoned debunking of
Psychiatry
I don't think Szasz debunks all of psychiatry, but rather certain
aspects of it. After all, he is a psychiatrist.
|1.11.07 @ 10:57AM|#
"Have scientologist always been this weird or have they been
getting weirder?"
They've always been this weird, irrational, and demented. It's just
that lately they seem to have more money and members than in the
past.
Quite frankly, someone needs to call the local chapter of the ACLU
and get them on this pronto.
|1.11.07 @ 10:59AM|#
"Anyone should be free to contract with any "healer" he
likes for treatment, services,counsel etc.
Psychiatry aspires to the ultimate Nanny State"
Yes, while Scientologists believe you should give all of your money
and worldly possessions to their "church" in order to buy into a
giant ponzi scheme with a freaky looking alien sitting at the
peak.
|1.11.07 @ 11:00AM|#
My own experience with psychiatry and psychopharmacology (is that a word?) has been that I owe my sanity and continued life to this field. Most psychiatrists I have talked to will readily admit that the identification of and use of pharmaceuticals is of an empirical (i.e. trial and error) nature. They admit that they don't really know exactly what antidepressants do. The ironic part is that my most recent doctor is leaving the practice, and due in no small part to the "war on drugs", I cannot find a doctor willing to supply certain politically incorrect medications that have kept me alive and partially happy for many years. I have about one month's supply left, after which, I hold little hope for my sanity. I guess I'll be another casualty of the "war". It's a crazy world, huh?
^^^^^^|1.11.07 @ 11:02AM|#
Szasz debunks Psychiatry as an institution-after he is done not
much is left other than individuals freely choosing to contract for
services they desire.I really admire the Doctor for shredding his
chosen profession right after securing tenure.More academics should
try it.
I never realised how many libertarians love the Therapeutic State
perhaps they are these new "liberaltarians" I've been hearing so
much about.
^^^^^|1.11.07 @ 11:08AM|#
mediageek
who is defending Scientology?
They do not have the Authourity of the State
backing them up.Of course some people fear WalMart Coca Cola and GM
more than the State-
I think they are called "liberals".
dhex|1.11.07 @ 11:08AM|#
"I never realised how many libertarians love the Therapeutic
State perhaps they are these new "liberaltarians" I've been hearing
so much about."
it's right below the state of sanctimony in Our One True Faith.
Garth|1.11.07 @ 11:11AM|#
I supect that one reason some -- myself included -- libertarians
are suspicious, if not downright hostile, to psychiatry is that
mental illness is used 1) as a crutch for people to avoid personal
responsibility (an important facet of libertarianism thinking); 2)
way too often to justify restricting people's freedom through means
anywhere from medicating to imprisonment; 3) as a label that is far
to easy to apply to people when the "science" is hard to back up
with real data.
Psychiatry is also far too fluid in its approaches, methods,
theories etc etc for many libertarians who tend to be hard-science
oriented.
Finally, since we are so very often labelled "crazy" ourselves for
our beliefs, we take offense at the whole "crazy industry" more
easily....
We're kinda like the cavemen in the GEICO commercials.
Mike|1.11.07 @ 11:14AM|#
The non-libertarian problem is that psychiatry is a steaming
pile off bs with no basis in science. Psychiatry is about as
scientific as Scientology.
Psychiatry might be BS, but psychology is not. But anti psych*
groups like Scientology make no effort to distinguish between the
two.
^^^^^^|1.11.07 @ 11:15AM|#
peggysue,
You shouldn't have to prove you are sick and that your desired drug
is acceptable treatment( in a libertarian society) to get your
speed or narcotics or whatever.Just walk down to the drugstore and
buy them.If you are unsure of composition and dosage bring a note
from anyone you trust-some sort of healer we'll say.
Psychiatry would classsify such behavior as an illness requiring
coercive "treatment".
^^^^^|1.11.07 @ 11:19AM|#
I personally believe much of psychology is bs,
as I do all of the "soft sciences". I only have a problem with bs
when it is backed by the force of the State.
Mike|1.11.07 @ 11:56AM|#
I personally believe much of psychology is bs, as I do all
of the "soft sciences".
The scientific method is a powerful thing. It serves psychology as
well as it does physics.
|1.11.07 @ 11:58AM|#
"Psychiatry is also far too fluid in its approaches, methods,
theories etc etc for many libertarians who tend to be hard-science
oriented."
That's fucking funny...
Economics is the backbone of libertarian thought. It would not be
considered hard science. It is softer than either of the two
psych's...
Libertarians, like everyone else, subjectively judge those things
that they have little understanding of as illegitimate if there
appears to be a criticism of their favored ideas.
Szasz's arguments are aimed at practices decades old and do not
really touch upon, for the most part, current practice. Ivory tower
at it's worst.
dhex|1.11.07 @ 11:59AM|#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1083100102009309014&q=scientology+crazy
this is at turns both entertaining and frightening.
Wikinger Elch|1.11.07 @ 12:08PM|#
Science- funny: lots of the "Austrian" critiques of neoclassical econ falls under the same banner.
|1.11.07 @ 12:14PM|#
"I don't think Szasz debunks all of psychiatry, but rather
certain aspects of it. After all, he is a psychiatrist."
If I remember correctly, he once said that his teaching psychiatry
is like an atheist teaching theology - there is a place for
it.
I don't remember reading anything along those lines, but I don't
think he would object to someone taking psych meds voluntarily. I
feel sure he would object to characterizing taking of the drug as
treating a disease, though.
|1.11.07 @ 12:14PM|#
The problem isn't that there are questions about Psychiatry being effective or safe. The problem is related to Scientology being the biggest pile of crap to come down the pike in a long time. Screw the clams.
|1.11.07 @ 12:20PM|#
Psychiatry might be BS, but psychology is not.
I think that might be backwards, if it was true at all. Really,
neither one is pure BS. Psychiatry has brought measurable relief to
people suffering from serious ailments like bi-polar disorder and
schizophrenia. Based on my personal experience with both, it seems
the qualifications for being a psychiatrist keeps the rate of
nutjobs much lower than that of psychology.
Of course, psychology has helped people as well. But no amount of
analysis can do for a someone with an observable brain disorder
what psychiatry and its pharmacological tools have done.
^^^^^|1.11.07 @ 12:20PM|#
The scientific method is a powerful thing. It serves psychology
as well as it does physics.
No it doesn't..Hard Science does not "prove" things with vague
statistical correlations about human behavior in non-repeatable
experiments.
Go read Szasz,he is not crusading against psychiatric practices as
much as he is attacking the ideas behind it.Nevertheless his
arguments remain sound.Psychiatric diseases are not like other
disease as they have no pathology.If and when a pathology is
discovered for some or all of what is lumped into a psych category
it is no longer a psych disease but a medical one.Neurologists
treat "real" brain disease.
|1.11.07 @ 12:27PM|#
"If and when a pathology is discovered for some or all of what
is lumped into a psych category it is no longer a psych disease but
a medical one.Neurologists treat "real" brain disease."
This shows a profound misunderstanding of both psychiatry and
neurology. A disease state can exist and be treated without a known
etiology. If a neurological disease results in emotional or
behavioral problems, the realm of psychology and psychiatry, it is
a mental illness. Tx may come from neurology or pharm, but that
doesn't change the important manifestations of the disease
state...or the domain in which consequences of the neurological
cause are experienced by the individual.
To say that once we understand the etiology of a mental illness
makes it no longer a mental illness is just sloppy thinking. It
requires some sort of dichotomy between the brain and the mind that
can not be sustained under scientific scrutiny.
Szasz's arguments make more sense the less you understand the
workings of the brain. His critique of the use by the state of the
2 psych does not touch upon the practice or scientific foundations
of them.
Rhywun|1.11.07 @ 12:30PM|#
They've always been this weird, irrational, and
demented.
Don't forget "evil" - at least for the leadership.
who is defending Scientology?
They do not have the Authourity of the State
backing them up.
By calling themselves a "religion" they most certainly DO have the
authority of the State backing them up. Otherwise what is in fact a
pyramid-scheme/cult would have been broken up decades ago.
|1.11.07 @ 12:32PM|#
you're right, multiple carats, hard science doesn't prove anything at all. strictly speaking, we disprove, using statistical hypothesis testing, including statistical correlations and regressions. the human-examining soft sciences are limited to correlations because it's unethical and impossible to control human test subjects in experiments the way we do with other organisms. the conclusions are necessarily weaker, and not as easily replicated, since experimental conditions can't be consistently controlled.
|1.11.07 @ 12:34PM|#
As a psychology major, and I do not pretend to be an expert in
the feild just becasue I have taken some classes, I can see both
sides of the story (sort of). Yes, a large portion of psy theory is
bullshit. like most freudian theory. There is a lot
psychology/psychiatry does not know, we still are in the dark ages
about the human mind.
However, modern research can point to studies that support a
correlation (and often a caustion) between a treatment (be it
theapry, or drug) and improved level of happiness/ability for a
person to get on with their life. I have no idea where the
scientolist got their info, but they must be smoking crack to think
90% of psychiatry have sexual relations with their patients
Thomas|1.11.07 @ 12:36PM|#
"psychiatrists are medical doctors and psychologists are not. So
psychiatry is the medical treatment of the psyche, and psychology
is the science of the psyche."
Wait..why the heck is psychiatry bad if they are doctors. They're
the only ones that can prescribe medicine, right?
I take anti-depressants and no one except my doctor has a right to
second guess the goddamn medicine I take.
And no, I am not the typical American who goes into his doctor's
office and gets some anti-depressants for something stupid like
being fat. I despise regular doctors that diagnose your illness and
give you antidepressants, it should be a job for the
psychiatrists.
If I do not take my bupropion I will literally attempt to kill
myself. My family has a history of mental illness on both
sides.
I never knew Libertarians were against medicine for depression or
schizophrenia. I am a 100% libertarian, but to remain that 100% it
shouldn't matter whether or not I believe medicine for mental
illness is good or bad.
|1.11.07 @ 12:38PM|#
Interesting- psychotherapy was actually the first time I was encouraged to drop the hyper-emotional lens through which I had been viewing the world and look at the conditions of my life from a rational perspective.
|1.11.07 @ 12:42PM|#
Szasz's primary point is that, whatever good psychiatry can do
for individuals, it must do voluntarily, in the normal
doctor-patient relationship. The coercive practice of psychiatry,
Szasz says, is meant to help SOCIETY more than the individual; such
psychiatrists are more akin to Orwell's "Thought Police" than to
physicians. Their mode of operation is more like that of government
"public health agencies," which seek to promote inoculation and
sanitation in defending society against transmissible disease.
Szasz points out, however, that pure mental "illness" (that is,
mental illness, which is not a symptom of a treatable, underlying
medical condition) is not such a disease, and, as far as we know,
there is no inoculation against it. So, the use of psychiatrists as
"public health agents" is inappropriate, and doubly, hypocritically
so in a society where personal liberty is supposed to be held
sacred.
Agree or disagree with him, I think that Szasz puts his points
across well, and causes the reader to think about both psychiatry
and public health policy in a new and worthwhile light. I'll admit
to being a fan of his, not because I am convinced that he is
correct in every particular, but because he persuasively speaks
truth to power in so many instances that he has earned my
respect.
|1.11.07 @ 12:43PM|#
dpotts, by all means if it helped you good, in fact there is some support for the "talking" part of freudian thearpy, but the whole edpius/electra complex stuff is mostly bs
biologist|1.11.07 @ 12:54PM|#
dhex:
thanks for the video link
those scientology guys are scary crazy bullies
^^^^^|1.11.07 @ 1:32PM|#
Is their any other "science" that uses anything like the DSM?
Diseases like consumer debt,gambling,child molesting,eating too
much.talking in class,defying authority in an institutional setting
and so on.Real doctors define disease by pathology-not committe
meetings.
Every time we have an election some psych is spouting off about how
conservatives have a psych disorder.
Psychiatrists and psychologists are always admitting they might
have been wrong and bad in "the old days" but it is purely
scientific truth now.
Everything is explained away as a "chemical imbalance" in the
brain.
Treat a lot of syphilis and "masturbation insanity" in your
practice these days Dr Science?(Well psychs do still treat
hysteria)
As for patients,I'm not denying you suffer from something
"real"-perhaps a biological real disease.I am happy if you receive
relief from meds or talking or whatever.
James Anderson Merritt is essentially correct
in his summary however Szasz addresses issues well beyond
psychiatry,The State and public health in his arguments.Ideas like
freedom ,Liberty, responsibility and individualism.
Graphite|1.11.07 @ 1:46PM|#
^^^^^, I'm somewhat sympathetic to your arguments here. But still, I'm wondering if there's anything in the DSM-IV about people who can't hit the spacebar after they use a punctuation mark.
|1.11.07 @ 1:52PM|#
"Diseases like consumer debt,gambling,child molesting,eating too
much.talking in class,defying authority in an institutional setting
and so on."
More than anything else this list shows how little you understand
about this topic. Take some time to learn about the meaning of the
various categorizations in the DSM before you decide that the
things on your list are considered mental illnesses.
A superficial knowledge of a subject makes it easy to spout
bullshit.
JAM,
"Szasz points out, however, that pure mental "illness" (that is,
mental illness, which is not a symptom of a treatable, underlying
medical condition) is not such a disease, and, as far as we know,
there is no inoculation against it."
This is the heart of the problem. And the source of much
misunderstanding regarding the field of mental illness. The field
has been moving away from these kinds of disease definitions for
decades. The scientiology critique of the field and that of Szasz
come from the same era. Their relevance today is much
diminished.
Again, the criticism of the social nexus between medicine and the
state is a different matter.
dhex|1.11.07 @ 1:53PM|#
"those scientology guys are scary crazy bullies"
not even so much scary as, well...they're clearly used to working
within a context where repeated accusations of bad behavior from
authority figures. it's a really sad con, though, if one realizes
what's going on and doesn't feel like playing those kinds of games.
similar to synanon in some ways, at least from what i've read (that
was sort of before my time)
they actually remind me of some cops, for that matter.
scientology doesn't really bother me that much as far as "cults"
go, if only because they have a very low body count. people need to
pick what they need to pick, and i wholeheartedly recommend the
tour of the main joint on 42nd street in manhattan, though
afterwards you will get a somewhat rough come on about doing an
audit.
which i also found entertaining, but i am a strange cat.
^^^^^|1.11.07 @ 2:09PM|#
Graphite,
Must be one of those chemical imbalances. If it is in the DSM-IV I
should lobby to have it removed by the DSM-V.Maybe I could even get
a new category by DSM-VI for people who are
no-space-bar-using-after-punctuation-PHOBES.
Better watch your ass if they do.
Seriously, that is the way the DSM works for anyone not familiar
with it.
|1.11.07 @ 2:17PM|#
i've always just imagined this cutthroat seedy noir
underside to the world of branson where shoji and the baldknobbers
probably have scores to settle with smirnoff and williams, etc. all
this intrigue boiling under the surface where the drunken hoosiers
at "the lake" will never notice.
That would be great (maybe as a movie - got any titles in mind?),
but I'll bet that life is so mundane down there that none of those
people ever even see each other. They perform, go home, go to bed,
wake up at 6 AM, eat their oatmeal, go for a walk around the lake,
go home, eat lunch at 11 AM, take a nap, do the early show, eat
dinner at 5:30 PM, do the night show, go home, and so on. Nothing
hinky, no hanky-panky, nothing.
Actually, the older I get, the better that life sounds. Maybe Bobby
Vinton needs a protege. (Crap! I checked his website - he hasn't
settled down there yet. He still tours.)
Rhywun|1.11.07 @ 3:19PM|#
dhex,
I don't know what "synanon" is, but Scientology&tm; runs
"Narcanon". And if by "body count" you're referring to corpses,
yes, the count is low; but they've fucked up a hell of a lot of
heads and destroyed many families. That counts as "evil" in my
book.
|1.11.07 @ 4:57PM|#
So, here's my question.
Is Captain Carat the guy who used to post under the username Six
Gun?
Haven't seen Six Gun around, but they sure do talk the same.
|1.11.07 @ 5:03PM|#
One picture sums it up for me:
Szasz is a quack.
I sure ^^^^^ has contacted the Hollywood center and had us declared
SPs. The Fair Game orders will be handed down to the local Orgs,
private detectives will be hired to look into our pasts, and
process servers will be at our doors by midnight.
|1.11.07 @ 6:35PM|#
Psychiatry is about as scientific as Scientology.
So, that's why my anti-depressants work so well.
|1.11.07 @ 6:43PM|#
Interesting - psychotherapy was actually the first time I
was encouraged to drop the hyper-emotional lens through which I had
been viewing the world and look at the conditions of my life from a
rational perspective.
I did psychotherapy for 14 months - and in conjunction with some
miraculously horrible drugs - it worked like a charm. I'll admit I
never really understood why but that may be the best explanation
yet. All of my friends, especially those who have known me since I
was a kid (before I became "hyper-emotional") said I became a much
more enjoyable and well-balanced person after all that.
Interesting... anyway, the Scientologists sure seem to have a lot
of time on their hands. They don't have better things to do?
Doctor|1.11.07 @ 7:25PM|#
Psychiatry is about as scientific as Scientology.
So, that's why my anti-depressants work so well.
Psychiatrists didn't invent them they just prescribe them-for lack
of any other effective treatment.
Szasz is a quack.
Hey that pic would look good on my wall right next to Rosalynn
Carter and John Wayne Gacy pic
Rosalynn Carter and Jim Jones pic
and of course Nixon With Elvis
|1.11.07 @ 9:38PM|#
Psychiatry and psychology seemed to have gotten confused in this
thread.
Furthermore, while I can't speak for the entirety of psychiatry, I
can state that after self-diagnosing with bipolar, and visiting a
psychiatrist to confirm the diagnosis and prescribe me the proper
medication based on a thorough evaluation (which diagnosed me as
bipolar II), I can with no hesistation say that Scientologists, as
well as those who refuse to acknowledge the benefits of psychiatry,
need a bit more education, or else need to go fuck themselves.
Whichever is more likely.
|1.11.07 @ 9:53PM|#
Okay,
So for anyone who wants to see the weakness in ^^^^^'s mentor's
arguments, Szasz does a great job of burying himself in this
debate.
http://www.szasz.com/isdepressionadiseasetranscript.html
I would say Szasz is a metaphoric expert. (from Szasz..."the whale
is a metaphoric fish.")
Guy Montag|1.11.07 @ 10:07PM|#
"the whale is a metaphoric fish." is like saying I am a metaphoric NFL running back.
|1.12.07 @ 7:12AM|#
This thread is probably going stale, but I'm compelled to throw
in my 50 kopecks.
In my experience, psychiatry has only offered solutions to my
self-reported problems. They didn't always work, but when they
worked, holy shit did they work.
In my experience, psychology has been at worst benignly useless,
and at best a self-directed transformative blessing that may not
have saved my life but certainly made it far more valuable to me. I
have found talk therapy to be useless for people wanting to thrive,
but very useful for people trying to survive. The only psychology
that seems to help people thrive are unintuitive reprocessing
techniques like EMDR, which seem to be used competently by only
small subset of practitioners.
Szasz and Scientologists aside, it seems to me that many of the
critics of psychiatry are recovered substance abusers who equate
all substance use with abuse. To my eyes, they incompetently used a
poor choice of drug to self-medicate for years and as a result have
condemned all drugs, even the right ones taken in the right dosages
in an appropriate regimen. It makes me wonder if they avoid vitamin
and mineral supplements in order to "not use them as a
crutch".
I don't find it all surprising that many people would be critical
of psychology, coercive politics aside, since the most prominent
form, talk therapy, appears to be of little therapeutic use for
anything other than catastrophe mitigation.
|1.12.07 @ 11:13AM|#
""the whale is a metaphoric fish." is like saying I am a
metaphoric NFL running back."
It's more like saying you are a metaphoric NFL shoulder pad.
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