9/11 X 10 Imminent

|8.5.06 @ 10:28PM|#

Can I go home now? Please...

|8.5.06 @ 10:35PM|#

For the last time, NO! Now quit talking, you're making bubbles...

|8.5.06 @ 11:14PM|#

Jinxed? Surely you jest, Mr. Cavanaugh?

Every six months the Pentagon sends nearly 4,000 soldiers to Bosnia and brings nearly 4,000 soldiers home. To see how it's done is to understand why keeping peace has become harder than waging war--and why the Pax Americana has stretched the mighty American military to the limit

This has been the CW since at least 2005! The word is prescient.

|8.5.06 @ 11:45PM|#

So does this mean people can't use the "we're at war" argument anymore to justify unusual government actions and powers?

|8.6.06 @ 12:05AM|#

Why do James Fallows and the Atlantic hate America?

|8.6.06 @ 12:13AM|#

Is Bush out at the ranch? Because megabad juju always goes down when he's at that dump for his 6 or 8 week summer break.

|8.6.06 @ 12:39AM|#

The time has come to declare the war on terror over...

There shouldn't even be a war on terror. What a ridiculous concept! Terror is not an enemy. it's a tactic. A war on a tactic is by nature an open ended war and one with out cessation. The war on terror is nebulous enough to give the government a sort of carte blanche excuse for infringing on all manner of individual rights.

Our government's response should have been to hunt down AQ and kill them so they can't do it again and quit the needless and sometimes shameful interventions that motivated their attacks against us in the first place.

|8.6.06 @ 3:15AM|#

The best policy is to declare victory and go home.

|8.6.06 @ 3:59AM|#

Wait, wait! It's not official until the President lands on an aircraft carrier and makes a speech in front of a banner declaring 'Mission Accomplished' is it? Oh, that's right. He already did that. Nevermind.

|8.6.06 @ 5:24AM|#

Ya know that hopeful slogan; "What is they declared a war, and nobody came."

With the War on Terror, the reality is reflected by; "What if the government declared a pretend war and used it as a pretext to f**ck the Hell out of everything, including our constitutional rights."

Ron Hardin|8.6.06 @ 8:21AM|#

Your constitutional rights protect you from Islam, how?

Islam replaces constitutional rights, or replaces you.

One could say ``radical Islam,'' but I don't know whether that's a necessary qualification or not. The moderates if any are as fearful of the radicals as anybody, apparently.

Christianity only claims you'll burn in hell, since the Reformation. Good luck to you and all that, is all the sanction they offer, albeit occasionally offing an abortion doctor.

The war on terror aims to make radical Islam unappealing enough to die out wherever it starts.

Part of that is to prevent its growing to a size that can pull anything worthwhile off, the deal being :

1. You need a certain size to do anything really nasty;
2. A certain size becomes easy to detect and defeat, with enough arm-twisting of friendly and not-so-friendly governments.

The idea is to make size (1) bigger than size (2), hence all the government intrusions.

Once (1) is bigger than (2), it's defeated, in that it can't take root and survive anywhere.

Not much to do with al Qaeda specifically.

|8.6.06 @ 9:23AM|#

Sheesh - last I heard, Cuba had declared an Orange alert and people were duct taping their windows. They have something to fear! We don't.

|8.6.06 @ 9:39AM|#

Herr Barton,

http://www.newint.org/issue372/zog.htm

|8.6.06 @ 10:27AM|#

It isn't quite as simple as naive pacifist propaganda would have it. Terrorism may be a tactic, but it's a tactic practiced by non-state actors that are perfectly capable of waging war. Going after Al Qaeda isn't quite the same as hunting down bank robbers. Attacking Iraq was stupid because Iraq was not connected with Al Qaeda, but to claim that we're not at war with Al Qaeda and related jihadists because terrorism is a tactic is to think in bumper-sticker categories. Alas, that's the level of most thinking about these issues.

|8.6.06 @ 11:09AM|#

"...naive pacifist propaganda...."

As opposed to the myriad subtleties of the Hysteric-in-Chief's strategy for the Global War on Everything Scary.

Garth|8.6.06 @ 11:23AM|#

I just read the article this morning. It actually has a lot going for it.... What stands out is that if we hadn't gone to war in Iraq, we could have declared this victory quite some time ago...

|8.6.06 @ 2:00PM|#

Agree with Garth above =

I read the article friday, and while the headline is declamatory, the piece and its argument that we've so far achived substantial goals against, 'terror' (in form of Al Q), we should be moving on from that war and reassing current decisions in light of that.

fallows is often read as a wartime water-carrier, but i think his comments sometimes have more nuance in them than people frquently take away.

JG

|8.6.06 @ 2:06PM|#

Tim, I call your bet and raise:

9/11 ^ 10

|8.6.06 @ 2:19PM|#

Kim Jong Il: It will be 911 times 2356.
Chris: My God, that's... I don't even know what that is!
Kim Jong Il: Nobody does!

|8.6.06 @ 2:23PM|#

I can't believe you passed up an opportunity to make a gratuitous Team America reference.

Fuck yeah.

|8.6.06 @ 2:23PM|#

Joe,

If the purpose of your linking to that site is to somehow imply that my critiques of the Israeli government and its supporters are racist, you're being ridiculous.

See this link where I confront an anti-Semite on this blog.

http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2004/05/zionists_ate_my.shtml

This dialog starts at the comment by Chet at May 8, 08:37 AM

Also, please see my other comments on the thread not directed to Chet.

Discussion of the overwhelming evidence that The Israeli government had prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks...

http://antiwar.com/israeli-files.php

...is not racist. And of course, neither is the consideration of the evidence that the main concern of the neocon prime motivators of the Iraq war was that they thought that regime change in Iraq would be good for the Israeli state.

|8.6.06 @ 2:38PM|#

For a careful consideration of the Israeli government?s prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks, see:

Terror Enigma: 9/11 And the Israeli Connection by Justin Raimondo

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0595296823/reasonmagazineA/

For an interesting attack on the neocons, see:

Ending the neoconservative nightmare
by Daniel Levy

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/746312.html

|8.6.06 @ 3:06PM|#

Doug:

...but to claim that we're not at war with Al Qaeda and related jihadists because terrorism is a tactic is to think in bumper-sticker categories.

I said that we should hunt down and kill those in AQ who were responsible. We should also make it clear that any other attacks on us will be meant by similar force, primarily directed at the planners. However, to broaden the situation to a "War on Terror" is ridiculous and counter-productive and of course during times of war, be they necessary or elective wars, individual liberty always takes a beating.

|8.6.06 @ 3:25PM|#

Is poster Ron Hardin not speaking in English? or did I misplace my comprehension skills over the weekend?

Mr Hardin,
If you can understand me, can you recommend a translator?

|8.6.06 @ 4:21PM|#

For an analysis of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and 9/11, see

http://www.mimnotes.info/news/20051211protocolszion/

For an analysis of paranoid conspiracy theories in general, see

http://www.mimnotes.info/news/20051211protocolszion/

Advice to Rick Barton: Stay sober.

|8.6.06 @ 5:47PM|#

Joe,

You gave the same link twice. You should try reading it! This bit from it makes one of my points:

"Another positive aspect of the film is that Marc Levin is careful to distinguish between anti-Semitism and criticism of the imperialist state Israel..."

|8.6.06 @ 6:12PM|#

God, Barton, you've just demnstrated the most important quality that an anti-Semitic conspiracist can have: the ability to ignore what doesn't fit:

"Marc Levin's investigation of anti-Semitic 9/11 conspiracy theories, which turns into a more general exploration of anti-Semitism in various forms, takes him from the social and geographic fringes of New York City all the way to Hillsboro, West Virginia, where the neo-Nazi National Alliance's headquarters are located."

|8.6.06 @ 8:42PM|#

"There shouldn't even be a war on terror. What a ridiculous concept! Terror is not an enemy. it's a tactic. A war on a tactic is by nature an open ended war and one with out cessation."

And I'm sure Bush and Cheney will not hesitate to use terror as a tactic themselves if they think it useful. Why not? They've embraced torture, so there's clearly no moral compass operating.

|8.6.06 @ 9:11PM|#

Joe,

You continue not to respond to the points I make and now you're just babbling. The quote that you cite isn't even germane, and it's clear that I'm not an anti-Semite. And if the best you can offer is that movie review, it's pretty clear that you're bereft of good arguments.

|8.6.06 @ 9:33PM|#

Rick, I'm not sure, but I don't think this is classic "joe", I think it's a different new "Joe"

aspendougy|8.6.06 @ 9:37PM|#

In 1948, a prominent group of Jewish people in the U.S. sent a letter to the NY TIMES, condemning the actions of Israel's new FREEDOM PARTY, headed by Menachem Begen, (who later became Prime Minister), and excerpt from this letter reads:

"A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants � 240 men, women, and children � and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.

The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party."

......"During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute"

Albert Einstein was among those who signed this letter.

Menachen Begin was Prime Minister of Israel from 1977 to 1983; He once said:

""OUR RACE IS THE MASTER RACE. WE ARE DIVINE GODS ON THIS PLANET. WE ARE AS DIFFERENT FROM THE INFERIOR RACES AS THEY ARE FROM INSECTS. IN FACT, COMPARED TO OUR RACE, OTHER RACES ARE BEASTS AND ANIMALS, CATTLE AT BEST. OTHER RACES ARE CONSIDERED AS HUMAN EXCREMENT. OUR DESTINY IS TO RULE OVER THE INFERIOR RACES. OUR EARTHLY KINGDOM WILL BE RULED BY OUR LEADER WITH A ROD OF IRON. THE MASSES WILL LICK OUR FEET, AND SERVE US AS OUR SLAVES."

Who is worse Iran's leader Ahmadinejad or Begin? Hard to say.

The tendency is to line up on one side or the other, either supporting Israel or her enemies, rather than acknowledge that there are extremists on both sides.

Jewish people are much safer in the U.S. than they are in Israel because "the everyone is created equal" idea runs deep here. Look at how we treat illegal immigrants. We're not even willing to deport them.

|8.6.06 @ 11:59PM|#

In 1948, a prominent group of Jewish people in the U.S. sent a letter to the NY TIMES, condemning the actions of Israel's new FREEDOM PARTY, headed by Menachem Begen, (who later became Prime Minister), and excerpt from this letter reads:

"A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants ? 240 men, women, and children ? and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.

From Wikipedia...

The study continued: "The [historical] sources which discuss the Deir Yassin massacre unanimously agree that number of victims ranges between 250?254; however, when we examined the names which appear in the various sources, we became absolutely convinced that the number of those killed does not exceed 120, and that the groups which carried out the massacre exaggerated the numbers in order to frighten Palestinian residents into leaving their villages and cities without resistance."

Still a horrible crime. I just wish Arabs would get that upset when Saddam Hussein does it.

|8.7.06 @ 12:30AM|#

biologist,

I'm quite sure you're right. This is definitely not our old joe. This upper case J Joe is a different person.

|8.7.06 @ 12:55AM|#

"OUR RACE IS THE MASTER RACE. WE ARE DIVINE GODS ON THIS PLANET. WE ARE AS DIFFERENT FROM THE INFERIOR RACES AS THEY ARE FROM INSECTS. IN FACT, COMPARED TO OUR RACE, OTHER RACES ARE BEASTS AND ANIMALS, CATTLE AT BEST. OTHER RACES ARE CONSIDERED AS HUMAN EXCREMENT. OUR DESTINY IS TO RULE OVER THE INFERIOR RACES. OUR EARTHLY KINGDOM WILL BE RULED BY OUR LEADER WITH A ROD OF IRON. THE MASSES WILL LICK OUR FEET, AND SERVE US AS OUR SLAVES."

Out of curiosity, do you have a link or a reference for that quote?

|8.7.06 @ 1:38AM|#

"Jewish people are much safer in the U.S. than they are in Israel because "the everyone is created equal" idea runs deep here."

No doubt. You'd be all kinds of fucked without it.

|8.7.06 @ 11:06AM|#

What exactly counts as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory?

|8.7.06 @ 12:06PM|#

Doug,

Obviously, thinking the Israelis had prior knowledge of 9/11 totally doesn't count.

|8.7.06 @ 12:38PM|#

Does thinking that the Israelis had prior knowledge of 9/11 count as an anti-Israel conspiracy theory? Isn't the implication that Israel might well have caused 9/11? The eagerness to believe--I think it's more in the realm of belief than theorizing thought--that Israel is a devious force ready and able to manipulate events for its own evil ends is strikingly similar to traditional anti-Semitic propaganda. Why is Israel the focus of this particular irrational thinking? It's not as though Israel has no connection with Jews. I think it's reasonable to suppose that someone who has an irrational obssession with Israel as an evil force is consciously or unconsciously drawing on anti-Semitic sources.
The fact that as a modern state Israel is open to plenty of criticism provides a convenient cover for the crypto-anti-Semite. Rational critics of Israel's policies and actions from Noam Chomsky to Edward Said have never indulged in conspiracy mongering, but the anti-Semite can allign himslef with those critics to give his conspiracy theories an aura of legitimacy.

|8.7.06 @ 4:26PM|#

What we call anti-semitic usually refers to being bigoted against Jews. You can be opposed to Zionism and opposed to Israel's foreign policy and treatment of Palestinians as second class citizens without being anti-semitic.

|8.7.06 @ 4:47PM|#

Why were the Arabs so feckless as to not hunt down and kill Begin and other Irgun and Stern leaders for this horrible massacre? Aren't they resourceful enough to form elite units to carry out such targeted retribution? With their martyrdom willingness how could these Israeli fiends have escapted certain death?

|8.7.06 @ 8:27PM|#

Herb-

Of course one can be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic. Palestinians have plenty of reasons to despise Israel that have nothing to do with hating Jews. Anti-Semitic conspiracy theories are another matter.

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion implicated only the Elders in the conspiracy. Of course, any Jew might be involvded, but not necessarily. So were the Protocols anti-Semitic?

My point is that putting Israel at the center of various conspiracies to manipulate and control world events sounds very much like the Protocols. It may be that those who concoct this nonsense are garden-variety lunatics who have chosen Israel at random, but I doubt it.

|8.7.06 @ 11:39PM|#

Doug:

Does thinking that the Israelis had prior knowledge of 9/11 count as an anti-Israel conspiracy theory?

An anti-Israeli government conspiracy theory for sure. And governments do engage in malicious conspiracies frequently'

Isn't the implication that Israel might well have caused 9/11?

The fact that the Israeli government had prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks might make it more likely that it had a role in the facilitation however, while there is overwhelming evidence of the former, I am aware of no direct evidence of the latter.

But let's say that the Israeli government planned the whole tragedy. That still would be yield zero justification for any antipathy toward Jews in general. In fact, such antipathy would be as unjust as it always is.

|8.8.06 @ 12:01AM|#

Doug:

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion implicated only the Elders in the conspiracy.

No! Allegedly written by the Elders- the leaders, the forgery implicated all Jews since they would be followers. It's clear that Jews in general were the target of this document that was misattributed to Jewish authorship.

It's more complicated than just Russian secret police cooking it up. The Protocols had other origins, and they were not Jewish. Please see what I wrote concerning the Protocola forgery in an encounter with an anti-Jewish racist.

http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2004/05/zionists_ate_my.shtml

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Ron Hardin|8.6.06 @ 8:21AM|#

Garth|8.6.06 @ 11:23AM|#

aspendougy|8.6.06 @ 9:37PM|#

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