Not-So-Secular Turkey

Michael Young | June 16, 2006

Turkey, America's secular, democratic ally among Muslim nations? A poll says, "Not so fast."

Comments

Jesse Walker|6.16.06 @ 2:36PM|#

Well, they're right about the headscarf ban. Kill it.

|6.16.06 @ 2:53PM|#

In light of Jesse's comment, I look forward to a panel discussion between Jesse and Cathy Young, who supports the Turkish headscarf ban "to avoid a descent into fascism":

http://www.reason.com/0210/fe.cs.youve.shtml

|6.16.06 @ 2:59PM|#

Lifting the headscarf ban isn't a problem, and wouldn't make Turkey non-secular. Making it mandatory would be the problem, but it doesn't sound like people are advocating that.

Jesse Walker|6.16.06 @ 3:07PM|#

That would be Cathy Seipp, not Cathy Young. And that's not the only statement in the article that I disagree with.

Mike|6.16.06 @ 3:13PM|#

Let's see, socially conservative, religion-based morality, worship of the military, dislike of foreigners...hmmm...sounds strangely familiar.

Let's just say it might not be their *secularism* that has made them such a close ally.

|6.16.06 @ 3:18PM|#

"That would be Cathy Seipp, not Cathy Young."

Holy shit, I totally missed that. Sorry, Cathy Young, I didn't mean to libel you!

|6.16.06 @ 3:48PM|#

I think they should kill the headscarf ban. religios oppression is counterproductive. It only makes religios people stronger in their belief. I believe that it does anyways.

|6.16.06 @ 4:09PM|#

I don't support the ban, but I won't be surprised if women are pressured to wear headscarves if the ban is lifted.

What's worse: being forced to wear something or not being allowed to?

|6.16.06 @ 4:38PM|#

Turkey sucks. If any country deserves to be convicted of rape, it's Turkey.

|6.16.06 @ 5:10PM|#

As an atheist who thinks organized religion should get fckd, secular isn't always better -- remember most mass genocides, real genocides, were committed by secular states in the 20th century -- Turkish genocide of 3 million armenians no excpetion -- add in the nazis, soviets, US, and red china and you got some blood on your hands. The UK invented concentration camps in south africa and with no religious impetus.

|6.16.06 @ 5:20PM|#

Turkey varies wildly in between city life and the more rural areas. In Bola, it was a rather hostile environment, with people shuffling their children into shops so they wouldn't see my travelling companions bare midriff. However, if you to Ankara, it's a nice little hip city, with a cafe called Locus Solus that is probably owned by one of the guys from Einsturzende Neu Baten.

As usual, if you have money you're pretty much always right.

Kara|6.16.06 @ 5:21PM|#

Freedom in Turkey?? Hardly. The gov. basically keeps the Greek Orthodox Patriarch under police guard.

|6.16.06 @ 5:39PM|#

Kara, now I'm sure the Tukish government is just keeping the Patriarch under guard for his own protection.

You know, just like the Burmese junta and Aung San Suu Kyi.

|6.16.06 @ 7:25PM|#

Conservative Turks are uncomfortable with the spectacle of naked or near-naked tourists soaking up the sun at Turkish resorts...

But they're still copasetic with the spectacle of their neighbors naked, or nearly naked, as evidenced by the persistent popularity of Turkish bathhouses.

|6.16.06 @ 7:45PM|#

Pitching this article as belying Turkey's commonality with the US is strange. The US is pretty religious and conservative, too.

Now I'm sure that the latest Pew poll shows that Turks have an increasingly dismal opinion of the US, but that's not the poll the article is quoting.

|6.16.06 @ 8:19PM|#

Bago, I assume you meant Einstürzende Neubauten.

|6.16.06 @ 8:23PM|#

Warum sind Umlaute hier verboten? Hat aber bei 'Preview' gut geklappt......

|6.16.06 @ 8:48PM|#

Die Umlaute sind verboten? Ach! Dachshunde über alles!

|6.17.06 @ 12:53AM|#

As far as I know, you can get umlauts using iso-8859-1. So to get a u with an umlaut you can use either "ü" or "ü".

Here's a test of ü : Einstürzende Neubauten
Here's a test of ü : Einstürzende Neubauten

They both work under preview, but it's a known bug that preview will also show you some characters working correctly, only to choke on the actual output.

|6.17.06 @ 1:52AM|#

a cafe called Locus Solus that is probably owned by one of the guys from Einstruzende NeuBaten.

Why do you think this? Is the coffee served by a plaster urinating horse?

|6.17.06 @ 10:41AM|#

umlauts and enye's need to be done away with anyways. If it can't be written in normal letters it doesn't need to be said.

only half kidding.

|6.17.06 @ 8:37PM|#

Umlauts are cöol.

As for Turkey, I think we in the West have a moral obligation to restore the Byzantine Empire.

Free Constantinople!

Kara|6.18.06 @ 9:30AM|#

The headscarf issue doesnt just apply to Muslim women. Orthodox Christian women wear a headcovering and/or scarf during services. This is normal and not oppressive (at least I dont think so). Orthodox Jewish women also cover their hair. There are almost 25,000 Jews in Constantinople.

Does any gov. have the right to tell a women she cannot cover her hair?

Whether Muslim or Christian or Jewish.

Free Constantinople! While you are at it Free Cyprus!

|6.19.06 @ 10:14AM|#

What would happen if George Bush and Condaleeza Rice put together a little press offensive denouncing head scarf bans in France and Turkey, calling them unjust governmet oppression of peaceful Muslim citizens, and a violation of their civil rights? You know, actually giving our public diplomacy effort in the Muslim world something to work with?

The could get back together the gang who organized their media offensive against Syria during the Lebanese independence movement.