Michael Young | September 9, 2005
George W. Bush may have behaved like a twit after Katrina, but the New York Times is suggesting that when it came to military deployments, Louisiana's Democratic governor, Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, may have been as responsible if not more so for the delay in assistance. She was reluctant to cede authority to Washington to deploy active duty troops, but also, according to the piece, did not seem to understand that she had to formally ask for active-duty troops from the administration in the first place.
To seize control of the mission, Mr. Bush would have had to invoke the Insurrection Act, which allows the president in times of unrest to command active-duty forces into the states to perform law enforcement duties. But decision makers in Washington felt certain that Ms. Blanco would have resisted surrendering control, as Bush administration officials believe would have been required to deploy active-duty combat forces before law and order had been re-established... Officials in Louisiana agree that the governor would not have given up control over National Guard troops in her state as would have been required to send large numbers of active-duty soldiers into the area. But they also say they were desperate and would have welcomed assistance by active-duty soldiers.
But complicating matters is that Blanco, during the weekend after Katrina hit, apparently also "rejected a more modest proposal for a hybrid command structure in which both the Guard and active-duty troops would be under the command of an active-duty, three-star general--but only after he had been sworn into the Louisiana National Guard."
Bush could have federalized the relief effort, but had Blanco rejected this, it could have created the kind of state vs. federal crisis that the U.S. hadn't seen since the civil rights era--though the context was obviously quite different.
So, there was a giant screw-up because most people were too busy reading the fine print to figure out what to really do. But Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff didn't help things by being quoted as saying: "The unusual set of challenges of conducting a massive evacuation in the context of a still dangerous flood requires us to basically break the traditional model and create a new model, one for what you might call kind of an ultra-catastrophe."
One of have thought that the "traditional model" of disaster relief, even short of an ultra-catastrophe, meant precisely knowing how to engage in massive evacuation in the context of a still dangerous flood.
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All the more reason why these issues should have been figured out long ago. I agree that federalism is important. And just because a big storm is approaching doesn't mean we should throw federalism out the window. On the other hand, it should be absolutely clear between state and federal authorities when the federales should get involved, and in what manner, so that bickering over these things won't be going on while people are dying waiting for help. This should have been figured out in the four years since 9/11. It hasn't been.
Wait a minute, doesn't "the Insurrection Act, which allows the
president in times of unrest to command active-duty forces into the
states to perform law enforcement duties" contradict "given up
control over National Guard troops in her state as would have been
required to send large numbers of active-duty soldiers into the
area?"
Does the Insurrection Act allow the president to command
active-duty forces into states, regardless of the governor's
actions, or not?
The later comments about "female governor from the other party"
make Bush's hesitancy seem less statutory than political.
All in all, not a good day for federalism.
The lessons, as usual, are that no one with authority can be trusted to wield it wisely; That this two-party feud undermines what these buffoons are supposed to doing; That sometimes people have to just make a decision instead of digging through a rulebook; That we're idiots for allowing these incompetants to be elected in the first place.
So, joe, do you think that whenever the President feels that some governor or mayor some place doesn't quite have things under control he should just send the 82nd Airborne and take over?
Mitch: I think under the procedures developed under Bush's own
Administration -- as a response to terrorist attacks but perfectly
applicable to any disastor or catastrophe -- he actually can.
I'm pretty sure that "State of Emergency thingy" Blanco signed off
on before landfall (the one the White House tried to conviently
forget for a bit) gave Bush all the authority he needed to send in
the Army to provide aid.
It IS ironic to see George Bush fall back on the "I didn't want to
even possibly come even CLOSE to the limits of my executive powers"
defense.
To be fair, I don't think anyone wants any president to be invoking the Insurrection Act to send troops anywhere he wishes whenever he wants to quell "unrest." New Orleans wasn't suffering from a huge riot, it was suffering from a few roving bands of armed thugs left in the wake of a largely empty and severely damaged city. If Bush had charged in, it would have only confirmed to many that we now live in a police state under federal military control -- even if the result had been to save many lives.
Yes, Mitch, I think that whenever the President sees something
he doesn't like, he should send in the 82nd Airborne. If the DPW
doesn't empty the trash barrell's in Peoria often enough, for
example, that's a good reason to send a division of active duty
troops. That's exactly the point I was making when I - er - noted a
discrepancy in the reporting in that story. How very insightful of
you.
I'd like to say NaG is being ridiculous, that no one would have
freaked out if the military had quickly restored order in the
stricken city, and put a large presende at the Dome and Convention
Center. But I can't, really. Between the black helicopter types and
the people who use the term "War of Northern Aggression," a swift
return to order via the Army probably would have created a
shitstorm. Sigh.
"According to the administration's senior domestic security
officials, the plan failed to recognize that local police, fire and
medical personnel might be incapacitated."
Huh.
Someone asked this earlier in the week, I think: Is there not a
distinction between law enforcement statutes and evacatuation
duties? If the large numbers of people at the convention center, at
the superdome, and stranded on the bridge could have been removed,
wouldn't the load have been lessened on the local first responders
(however few remained)? Wouldn't such evacuation also have allowed
first responders from other areas to get into the city more
easily?
Even efficient deliveries of supplies would have been a tremendous
help.
Anon
We are not discussing some transaction where any ignorance on
your own part will be to your peril. Does it occur to anyone that
if Blanco didn't know she needed to ask for military help, then
perhaps some of the people waiting to be asked could have informed
her of that requirement?
Proactive is not a prescription drug.
it was suffering from a few roving bands of armed
thugs
I thought it was drowning in looters and armed bandits who were
shooting at rescuers and violating everyones property rights. It
was borderline anarchy!! At least that's the way some people have
presented it as when explaining why they had shift 1500 police
officers off of search and rescue operations and onto restoring law
and order and stopping looters.
There was such large scale disaster and overwhelmed local first
responders that I dont think anyone would have batted an eyelash if
Bush would have used the military in this case.
To seize control of the mission, Mr. Bush would have had to
invoke the Insurrection Act...But decision makers in Washington
felt certain that Ms. Blanco would have resisted
surrendering control... Officials in Louisiana agree that the
governor would not have given up control over
National Guard troops in her state...
So let me get this straight. Nobody in Louisina or Washington
asked, told, hectored, begged, or demanded the governor to invoke
the act because... because... they felt CERTAIN that she WOULD HAVE
rejected their argument.
Ummm... and the writer's point is... what? That they then have been
emotionaly crushed by this rejection? That President Bush,
Secretary Chertoff, the commander of the Lousiana National Guard,
or whomever... ALL of them just couldn't face that level of
rejection? They would have burst into tears and hid in their
bedroom?
The obviously specious argument contained in this article has got
to be one of the worst examples of journalism I've ever seen.
This is all Monday-morning quarterbacking. The real question
should be how (and if) state/federal govts. can arrange things so
this kind of screw-up doesn't happen again.
Does the federal govt. have a responsibility to come in and save
the day if the people of Louisiana are dumb enough to elect the
Nagins and Blancos of the world? That's the real federalist
question.
Welcome dailyKos readers.
herostratus
Nice cut and paste. You left off a line
"Officials in Louisiana agree that the governor would not have
given up control over National Guard troops in her state as would
have been required to send large numbers of active-duty soldiers
into the area."
It turns out decision makers in Washington were right.
Joe writes:
"I'd like to say NaG is being ridiculous, that no one would have
freaked out if the military had quickly restored order in the
stricken city, and put a large presende at the Dome and Convention
Center. But I can't, really. Between the black helicopter types and
the people who use the term 'War of Northern Aggression,' a swift
return to order via the Army probably would have created a
shitstorm. Sigh."
The uproar from the foil-headed 'copter watchers and remaining
Confederates would pale in comparison to the bleatings of
ANSWER-type activists who would no doubt complain about Bush's
imperialist AmeriKKKan troops sent to restore order among the
largely black population of New Orleans.
Damned if you do...
Skeptical....u accuse and then do the same thing
continuing in this vain...here is the complete quote you sourced
:
Officials in Louisiana agree that the governor would not have
given up control over National Guard troops in her state as would
have been required to send large numbers of active-duty soldiers
into the area. But they also say they were desperate and would have
welcomed assistance by active-duty soldiers.
But I think part of the issue, at least to me is that people are
speculating about what Blanco would have said and would have done.
But so far no one has said she refused anyhing. Further, much of
this speculation is coming from the administration which is in full
protect mode. And just who are these LA "officials" who believe
that she wouldn't have given up control ?
TO me the relevant quote was :
"I need everything you have got," Governor Blanco said she told
Mr. Bush last Tuesday, when New Orleans flooded. In an interview,
she acknowledged that she did not specify what sorts of soldiers.
"Nobody told me that I had to request that. I thought that I had
requested everything they had," she said
So she was requesting help. It seemed to me very clear that the
President could have made an Executive decision that she might be
in over her head or told her that troops would have to be under Fed
control.
I think the actual crux here is the insurrection act. Bush
didn't want to send active army unless Blanco invoked it (claimed
New Orleans was in a state of active insurrection). Blacno didn't
want to do that.
Judging from her pleas, she had no problems with active Army
running around -- out of her control -- that she didn't even
care.
Reading between the lines here, it seems almost as if the executive
branch was requiring the use of the Insurrection Act (and Blanco to
give them an excuse) before they'd act. Blanco was refusing -- I
don't blame her.
A unified chain of command is nice, but it's not required -- and
claiming Bush couldn't "send in the Army" without the act is
bullshit too. Evacuation and relief duties are absolutely allowed,
and other than some twits at the far edges of society, no one would
have remarked if the presence of the 82nd ALSO prompted a sudden
return to law and order while they were sheparding food and
supplies in and people out.
Why the Bush White House might have insisted on the Insurrection
Act before acting I'll leave to those better informed of the Act.
I'd just like to note that this marks the FIRST time in 5 years
that Bush has actually stayed well within his powers as President.
He didn't even come close to the edge, and in a situation where
people would have been massively forgiving if not ever i was dotted
or ever T crossed.
The statement about the Insurrection Act not being employed
without the agreement of a governor since the Civil Rights Era
answers my question - yes, the President can take such action
without the approval of the governor.
Seems to me that Bush could have told Blanco, "There are 7000
federal troops en route at this moment. Whether they arrive there,
and restore order, in response to your request, or against your
wishes, will depend on whether you get a request letter to me in
the next three hours."
But the feat is that that would have looked bad politically. Which
is not only morally repugnant, but stupid - how bad does Bush look
politically right now?
I'd just like to note that this marks the FIRST time in 5
years that Bush has actually stayed well within his powers as
President.
If you're talking about stuff like Iraq and the PATRIOT Act, blame
Congress, not Bush. The only thing I can think of off the top of my
head is Guantanamo detainees as not "well within his powers as
President". Color me stupid, but what has Bush done that has not
been "well within his powers as President"? Recess appointments?
Twisting arms of Congressmen to pass laws? He's skated up to the
line, but not crossed it that I can recall.
From what I'm learning about how the systems are designed,
there's "before rescue/evac" and "after rescue/evac". But people
tend to lump both operations as "relief" and the confusion grows
from that.
This is why probably why FEMA asked for firefighters to do
community relations, FEMA's not really an evacuation-and-rescue
outfit so they would never ask for evac-rescue help. FEMA helps
those who have already been evacuated and rescued. It's the
law-and-order types who have to do the "before" stuff, FEMA's an
aid organization doing the "after" stuff.
What happens when the evacuees have to be rescued from the
evacuation shelters? We'll never get a straight answer on whether
Blanco knew she had the option or didn't, or whether Bush offered
her the option or didn't. Way too much face to save and too many
bureaucratic loopholes to give one an out.
jf,
I don't really want to engage with you about your query in depth
because we will never see eye to eye, but there are quite a few
people who believe he crossed the line when his administration
decided to render the Geneva conventions quaint and decided the use
of torture for anyone who is being "detained" at Abu Gharib and
Gitmo, and there is some real debate about whether or not he
crossed the line with some of his "enemy combatants" designations
(i.e. Jose Padilla - who will be staying in jail it
seems)
I'm guessing you believe he was well within his rights as president
to do these things, but I don't think that is a consesus
opinion.
ChicagoTom:
I agree that the entire Gitmo situation is shady at best, and think
I said so originally (although I neglected to mention Abu Ghraib).
I was just looking for justification for the "FIRST time in 5 years
that Bush has actually stayed well within his powers as President".
Hell, email it to me, since I don't want to threadjack this thing.
I hear that Bush has abused his power his entire stay in office,
but never see any concrete examples (other than Gitmo).
It's a MSM report, so take it as you will. But this report is a
bit more adamant that an offer was made than the NY Times
article.
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050904/1066662.asp
It's a good thing that Chicago Tom doesn't want to engage JF in
an indepth discussion about crossing the line.
He (Tom) has demonstrated he hasn't a clue about what the geneva
convention is or what it says.
He confuses humiliation tactics that rise to the level of college
hazing with "torture"
He doesn't seen to realize that the courts have pretty much sided
with the administration on the designation of "enemy
combatants".
I would hazard a guess (based on his comments) that he is a left
wing, marxist Bush hater.
GET OVER IT.
There was such large scale disaster and overwhelmed local
first responders that I dont think anyone would have batted an
eyelash if Bush would have used the military in this
case.
Given the direct relevance of the lead article, I'll repost here an
alternate timeline I
posted a couple days ago. I really am curious what those who
want earlier and faster federal response would say...
August 28. FEMA chief Michael "Brownie" Brown announces that the
local plan for the mandatory evacuation is completely inadequate
for the threat New Orleans faces. In order to save the tens of
thousands who are not getting in cars and driving out of town, he
pushes to get Bush to declare martial law. The state and city
capitulate and "ask" for FEMA to take responsibility.
Brown federalizes all city buses, school buses, and private buses
not actively being used for evacuation. He federalizes the
Louisiana National Guard and hurries them to the New Orleans area
to help with evacuation. Ambulances from a four state area are
brought in for the difficult cases. Everyone who wants to leave can
leave. Those who don't want to leave are allowed to remain with the
warning that a curfew will be imposed and the streets will be
patrolled. The Superdome is set up as an official response locale
for the federal forces, but no evacuees remain there.
August 29. Hurricane Katrina takes a hard right turn and loses
significant power as it skirts the coast and hits Pensacola at
category 3. New Orleans gets 5 inches of rain and no real damage.
Twelve people taking advantage of the dispopulation of the city to
commit armed break-ins are shot and killed by police and national
guard.
Discuss the media reaction. Note that in this alternate history
Bush&Co. can point to the alternate alternate history where the
feds did nothing before the storm and the hurricane did hit,
swamped the levees, and drowned thousands in their homes.
But apparently Michael Young thinks these same institutions will trigger Goodness And Light in parts of the world most of its members and citizens cannot find on a map.
Corection to my above: "...most of THEIR members and citizens cannot find on a map."
JD,
You are correct. Your Rush Limbaugh talking points have made me see
the error of my commie pinko loving ways. American citizens,
arrested on american soil being detained indefinitely without any
due process and done so in clandestine and secretive ways is
definitely something that I should just get over. I should never
question dear leader or anything the state does (unless there's
some other hippie marxist / Democrat President. )
Forgive me!
Now that Brown has been ousted is it too early to begin the
sounding bells calling for Blanco's head? Not early enough for me,
as it becomes increasing clear that at almost every step in this
disaster (pre and post) this women's utter incompetence contributed
to and directly affected the totality of this FUBAR scene. Brown
may have been a schmuck, but I guarantee had the LA governor been
Haley Barbour we would not have known this, Additionally, I'll be
galled if DEMs use Brown leaving as a TOTAL cover for Blanco.
Let start the call!
But I think part of the issue, at least to me is that people
are speculating about what Blanco would have said and would have
done.
But we do know exactly what she said and did. She dithered and
delayed and very much got in the way. She did not act decisively or
knowledgably, but instead acted as if covering her ass and setting
up partisan talking points for later was the most important
thing.
"On the other hand, it should be absolutely clear between state
and federal authorities when the federales should get involved, and
in what manner, so that bickering over these things won't be going
on while people are dying waiting for help."
Comments like this are idiotic. The situation was worked out. It is
clear when the federal government should become involved. It has
been worked out all over the nation. Every state is required to
have an emergency management plan. The Stafford Act specifically
requires the state in question to activate its plan before the
Federal Government can do anything. In this case, the evacuee
crisis occurred entirely because the city and state authorities
failed to carry out their emergency plans. The hundreds of buses
we've seen in those photos were available to evacuate the needy
before the levees broke but they weren't used. Implementation of
the bus evacuation did not require federal intervention. The fact
that the New Orleans police department collapsed had less to do
with the actual effects of the hurricane and more to do with a
complete lack of leadership. Those cops who were video taped
looting weren't physically unable to do their job. They just chose
to throw in the towel and throw their fellow citizens to the
wolves.
The Red Cross becomes an agency of FEMA when a state of emergency
is declared by the President. The head of the American Red Cross is
now on record saying that the Red Cross had seven trucks full of
provisions ready to go directly to the Super Dome on August 30th
but they were prevented from doing so by the Louisiana state Dept.
of Homeland Security. That means FEMA was immediately responding to
the problem but the idiots in state government prevented them from
doing so. This whole thing is getting to be a joke.
People want to ignore reality if it conflicts with their
preconceived ideas. I am personally sick of the rorshach test world
that this country has become.
No matter how politically correct it may be or how intelligent you
may think it makes you sound, trying to lay blame for this mess on
the federal government and the Bush Administration is a joke and
has no relationship with reality.
We have a joke of a mayor who failed to implement his own city's
evacuation plan despite the pleas of President Bush that it be done
on August 27th. The Governor refused to let relief supplies reach
the people who needed them because whe wanted to encourage people
to leave the Super Dome even though these people were there
precisely because they did not have the means or ability to leave.
Local police departments in surrounding suburbs were preventing
people from leaving on their own. And as late as Saturday September
3rd Governor Blanco had hired a political hack from the Clinton
Administration who she admits advised her to refuse to cede control
to the Feds because it might hurt her politically.
The State and Local goverments failed. The Feds mobilized faster
than they have in any other natural disaster to date. And yes, as
much as it may pain those who want to live in fantasy land, the
incompetent government officials who are almost entirely
responsible for this mess are Democrats.
A major question has been raised about President Bush seeking
invoke the Insurrection Act before deploying Federal forces to
restore order. I would like to address that. Admittedly, I don't
have an encyclopedic understanding of Federal law, but I do know
this.
The Insurrection Act permits the President of the United States to
do one of the things the Founders feared the most, and sought to
prohibit and hinder as much as possible when they framed the
Constitution; specifically, to used Federal soldiers against a
large body of American citizens. I'm not sure when the last time US
soldiers (not national guardsmen) actually were used in such a
capacity. Possibly during the LA Riots. It may be that they had to
do some shooting during the Civil Rights problems in the 50s and
60s. The last time I know, for sure, that Federal forces shot at
fellow Americans, though, is the Civil War.
To send Federal forces into a situation where they would, without a
doubt, be put in a position where they would have to shoot at US
citizens WITHOUT invoking that law is the first step on what is
potentially a very slippery slope. It sets a precedent. Yes, this
time it was the unrest that occurred after a national disaster.
Maybe next time it'll be used on unruly mobs, or large
anti-government demostrations, or to supress political
opposition.
In short, my read on the situation is sending Federal forces into
an American city without the express consent of the Governor, no
matter the immediate benefit, is the first step on the road to a
potential second Civil War a century down the road. The President's
hesistation at unilaterally moving Federal forces in when there are
other National Guard formations available, especially knowing the
likely public opinion consequences, is a decision that takes
extreme intestinal fortitude, and I for one am glad I was not the
one who had to make it.
jt007 is correct.
The thing that people (especially the BDS crowd) seem to be
avoiding in all of this is that this is the first time that local
officials totally failed to maintain law and order during a
disaster.
Have we ever seen this kind of chaos before during a disaster? Did
we see it in San Francisco and L.A. after the earthquakes? Did we
see it after Andrew in Florida? Did we see it in Manhattan after
9/11? No. Why? Because the local/state officials DID THEIR FREAKING
JOBS!
This is also why I think that the Democrats "demands" that there be
another "commission" to look into this will quietly die out. It is
becoming obvious to them that the blame for this mess lies in the
incompetence of Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin.
I found these two articles to be highly insightful.
http://varifrank.com/archives/2005/09/what_if.php
http://varifrank.com/archives/2005/09/the_kingfish_is.php
The Red Cross becomes an agency of FEMA when a state of
emergency is declared by the President.
This statement is the exact opposite of being true. Trust me, I
know, I have both a wife and a father who work at ARC HQ, and are
in a position to know whether such a thing would be true. I can
assure you it is not. The ARC has an independent Congressional
charter and dispatches and manages its assets independently. FEMA
does, as a coordinating authority under the Stafford Act, and where
it is in charge, have the power to direct the activities of the
Salvation Army, Red Cross and other such organizations; but the
Stafford Act specifically prohibits FEMA from doing so in a manner
that would conflict with the ARC charter or would infringe on ARC's
rights and responsibilities under that charter.
JFK invoked the Insurrection Act against George Wallace by
federalizing the Alabama Army and Air National Guard to enforce
civil rights laws on 9/11/63 (apply tinfoil to skull before
commenting on date). He did the same to enforce rights at U Miss
10/62-7/63. Application of the Insurrection Act in NO for Katrina
might not have been taken too positively in the neighborhood.
Reference (PDF!):
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/ssi/pubs/2003/posse/posse.pdf
If, as the Governor related, president Bush had to beg the
Governor and the Mayor to evacuate the city, what does that say
about both of them?
The storm was coming on a direct path to New Orleans. It was a
Category 5. The levees were almost guaranteed to fail. And he had
to tell these twits the city should be evacuated, and even then it
took the Mayor another 12 hours to announce the evacuation was
mandatory?
Heck yes, the Bush administration debated Federalizing the effort
without their agreement.
And then there were those three senior Louisiana Homeland Security
and Emergency Preparedness employees who were indicted last
November.
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/law/news/wdl20041129.html
The White House knew EXACTLY who they were dealing with and it
wasn't competents.
Does the Insurrection Act allow the president to command
active-duty forces into states, regardless of the governor's
actions, or not?
It allows the president to command active-duty forces into states
to contain insurrections and quell civil disorder. It does not --
or, at least, isn't supposed to -- give the President blanket
authority to send the US Army to do whatever he feels like having
it do so long as somebody in the area is misbehaving.
Picture this scenario. It's Election Day 2008. Bush observes that
black neighborhoods have shockingly higher crime rates than white
neighborhoods. He announces that, to help contain that civil
disorder, he'll be dispatching the Army to stand outside all the
polling places in black neighborhoods. Would you accept that? Well,
that sort of crap is exactly why the President isn't supposed to be
allowed to use the Army domestically unless (a) there's actually a
need to engage in military action against hostile forces or (b) the
local authorities ask for help.
Am I wrong or does not the Patriot Act, passed under Bush, give
him the authority to send in troops regardless of any
'insurrection'?
There was a statement from the Bush admin that they did not want to
send in troops without Blanco signing away all her authority as it
would have 'set a terrible precedent, and who would want that on
their conscience?'.
So rather than have over-riding states rights on their conscience,
they let people drown? And all over some political principle?
Word on the street is that the Bush admin played politics...before
they sent in help, they wanted Blanco to first sign a piece of
paper that would in essence be her admitting she had failed, that
way the Bush admin would be exnorated of all fault and could later
point to Blanco's signature and say 'see!!! She gave up!!! It's all
her fault!!!'.
Blanco was not about to sign away all her and the various local
officials authority to some suits in Washington...especially when
it was not even needed as a result of the Patriot Act.
IF Blanco had signed everything over to the Feds, the fate of New
Orleanians would now be in the hands of minions of pencil pushers
and EPA types in D.C.- and when the residents could return would be
caught up in beaurocratic red-tape while men in lab coats argued
over parts-per-billion.
Thank goodness Blanco didn't succumb to the Bush admin's
games....if she had, Michael Brown would be running the state of
Louisiana and it would be an even bigger cluster phuck.
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