"They are war criminals and should be hung."

Nick Gillespie | March 24, 2005

That's the latest inane nattering from the ultimate Cold War casualty, chess great Bobby Fischer, who the Free World still owes a solid to for kicking Boris Spassky's rotten commie ass in a contest that was every bit as important and central to freedom's flourishing as the 1972 Men's Olympic basketball final and all those Van Cliburn piano competitions.

Hell, even Gorbachev got a Pizza Hut deal out of communism's fall. Fischer just went insane. As some may recall, Bobby F was last heard from waxing anti-Semitic after 9/11 (hey Ward Churchill, you might want to lift some of his material).

Now Fischer has been released from a Japanese jail and is heading to Reykjavik--the site of his triumph those many years ago--with Iceland's ambassador to Japan (and his fiance) on his arm. (Yes, odd.)

Reports the CBC:

"This was not an arrest," said Fisher. "It was a kidnapping cooked up by [U.S. President George W.] Bush and [Japanese President Junichiro] Koizumi."

"They are war criminals and should be hung."

In more bizarre behaviour, Fischer pretended he was going to urinate on a wall, called Japan's government "gangsters" and said the U.S. was "Jew-controlled."

Fischer was in jail because of an extradition order to the U.S. for having played a '92 chess match in Yugoslavia in violation of sanctions then in effect (which does sound like bullshit, though somehow I doubt Jews had much to do with it).

Whole thing here.

Comments

fyodor|3.24.05 @ 11:37AM|#

Is this the first mention of Ward Churchill on H&R? He's a 1st class dork, but I have yet to hear him say something anti-semitic.

|3.24.05 @ 11:47AM|#

Gillespie, I'm *still* pissed about the 1972 Olympic basketball final. Commies or not, we wuz robbed. ROBBED, I tell ya! Goddammitt, those pinkos should pay! Oh, well, maybe they have....

|3.24.05 @ 11:50AM|#

Both the post and the story are ambiguous - is his fiance Iceland's ambassador to Japan, or are they two different people?

And what does Iceland's ambassador to Japan do? Other than sneaking whale meat to his friends in diplomatic pouches, of course.

Nick Gillespie|3.24.05 @ 11:52AM|#

Fyodor,

I think Churchill's calling victims in the World Trade Center attacks "little Eichmanns" pretty much covers the waterfront in terms of anti-Semitism.

|3.24.05 @ 11:59AM|#

I don't get it. People in the WTC are guilty for American depredations = Jews are bad?

It's a dumb statement, but why antisemitic? Is there more?

|3.24.05 @ 12:08PM|#

Both Churchill and Fisher made comments that America "had it coming" in regards to 9/11. That's how I took Gillespie's wisecrack..

|3.24.05 @ 12:16PM|#

One of my previous coworkers beat Fisher in chess.

My coworker (actually about 25 years before he became my coworker) was playing in a NYC chess club, when some ratty looking snot nosed kid comes in and plays him. The kid surprises my coworker with his skill, but he still beat the kid. The kid walks out in a huff. Turned out the kid was Fisher.

|3.24.05 @ 12:45PM|#

This is outrageous! He should have said "hanged," not "hung."

fyodor|3.24.05 @ 12:48PM|#

Nick,

Thanks for the reply, but I agree with joe. I see no connection whatsoever. And I think the healthy tradition in these circles is to grant leeway to speech rather than seeing and claiming nefarious implications whenever conceivably possible. Hell, I remember when it used to be fashionable to call a demanding person "a little Hitler." Was anyone who said such a thing being anti-semitic? How about people who complained about "parking Nazis"? Churchill genuinely thinks that by being movers and shakers in American capitalism, these people were doing great harm to others. It's stupid, but hardly anti-semitic.

Mr. Nice Guy,

The "had it coming" thing reflects obtuse thinking and maybe maybe reflects anti-Americanism, but what does it have to do with Jews?

|3.24.05 @ 12:50PM|#

What sort of solid does the free world owe Mr. Fischer?

And doesn't calling someone a "little Eichmann" count as anti-anti-Semitism? I.e., calling someone a Nazi doesn't make you an anti-Semite; if anything just the opposite. Not that it really matters in Ward Churchill's case because there is no logic to follow, it's simply thoughtless name-calling.

|3.24.05 @ 12:51PM|#

I'm with Stevo. The use of "hung" is a complete travesty of the English language! First they print "Reason" uncapitalized (on another thread). And now this! Oy vey...

|3.24.05 @ 12:54PM|#

Oh, wait: yet again I am getting upset at the wrong people for the abuse of the usage. It's Fisher who said it, and Reason was just quoting it. My mistake!

|3.24.05 @ 12:58PM|#

"The use of "hung" is a complete travesty..."

That depends on how hung they are...

|3.24.05 @ 1:06PM|#

"This was not an arrest," said Fisher. "It was a kidnapping cooked up by [U.S. President George W.] Bush and [Japanese President Junichiro] Koizumi."

"They are war criminals and should be hung."

Uh-oh, call the Thought Police, errrr, Secret Service--somebody's imagining the death of the sovereign again. We can't have that, even if he's a crazy person.

|3.24.05 @ 2:19PM|#

"[Japanese President Junichiro] Koizumi."??

Japan has a president? Next do we get "UK President Tony Blair", "Canada's President Paul Martin", etc.?

|3.24.05 @ 2:38PM|#

I don't think Churchill, idiot that he is, made any anti-semitic remarks. I'm just connecting the anti-American statements the two subjects spouted out.

If Gillespie intended to link Churchill directly to anti-semitism, then yeah, I'm confused, too.

|3.24.05 @ 2:47PM|#

I always thought one of Fischer's great achievements was getting a lot of Americans rooting for Spassky. The guy was a major jerk even then.

|3.24.05 @ 3:13PM|#

I think Iceland is going to get a rude awakening when they realize that their latest citizen is barking mad and living in a dumpster in Rekyavik.

|3.24.05 @ 3:16PM|#

Churchill�s book A Little Matter of Genocide contains passages such as this:

But preposterous as some of the argumentation has become, all of it is outstripped by a substantial component of zionism which contends not only that the American holocaust never happened, but that no �true� genocide has ever occurred, other than the Holocaust suffered by the Jews at the hands of the nazis during the first half of the 1940s. (p. 7)

and this:

. . .the Jewish state established on Arab land in 1947 as an act of international atonement for the Holocaust . . . and to construct a conceptual screen behind which to hide the realities of Israel�s ongoing genocide against the Palestinian population whose rights and property were usurped in its very creation.� (p. 74)

Basically, Churchill argues against the straw man that Israeli's supporters claim that no other genocide but the Nazi genocide of the Jews occured, goes on to claim that the Israeli actions against the Palistinians is a genocide, and is probably leading towards the idea that American = Nazi = Israeli. Anti-Semetic? Obviously not--he's a lefty and therefore a good person by definition.

|3.24.05 @ 3:40PM|#

Man, when I made those critical statements about the ruling ideology of the Soviet Union, I had no idea I was expressing bigotry towards Russians.

Thanks for setting me straight, Don.

fyodor|3.24.05 @ 3:41PM|#

Anti-Semetic? Obviously not--he's a lefty and therefore a good person by definition.

Don, your strawman-sarcasm here makes me laugh! I still don't consider these statements indicative of anti-Semitism but rather only the typical onesidedness and hyperbole that leftists (and some libertarians in fact) bring to their analysis of the Israel-Palestinian conflict (though I will detour just a moment to point out that he attributes the absurdly narrow view of genocide to "a substantial component of zionism," not to all supporters of Israel; whether there's any truth to the charge I don't know and don't especially care), but I will grant that at least you've managed to dredge up some quotes that would support the anti-Semitic charge in many more people's minds than would the "little Eichmann" quote on which Gillespie based his offhand charge. Perhaps Gillespie unconsciously assumed that being such a stereotypical to the hilt lefty, Churchill must have uttered this kind of thing at some point, and I suppose it's not much of a surprise that he indeed has.

|3.24.05 @ 4:05PM|#

criticism of Isreal/Zionist:antisemitism

as

criticism of welfare:racism

"Hey, that kinda sorta sounds like something a racist/antisemite would say."

|3.24.05 @ 4:28PM|#

Man, when I made those critical statements about the ruling ideology of the Soviet Union, I had no idea I was expressing bigotry towards Russians.

Critical? I remeber your positive statements, maybe you put in some negative ones as well.

|3.24.05 @ 4:31PM|#

Don,

Well, I think it was a fairly boneheaded thing to create a Jewish state in the Levant (that doesn't mean I am for taking it down now - too much water under the bridge at this point). I think a patch of Australia or some such would have been a brighter manuevre. And it was in reality an act of international atonement in its own way; an unthinking one as far as I can tell. Does that make me an anti-semite?

|3.24.05 @ 4:33PM|#

joe: Hey, that kinda sorta sounds like something a racist/antisemite would say.

Gee, joe, same argument you made when you defended Passion of the Christ from those who viewed it as antisemetic. Opps, no, you were one of the ones attacking in as antisemetic.

More seriousl, what Churchill seems to be doing is making the Israeli treatment of the Palistinians to be viewed on the same level as the Nazi treatment of the Jews. Sure, one can construct a theory where Churchill does so without any antisemetic motivations. More likely, he's just another left wing antisemite.

|3.24.05 @ 4:37PM|#

Gary,

If you attempt to equate the Isreali treatment of the Palastinians with the Nazi treatment of the Jews, there is a high probablility that you are an antisemite.

|3.24.05 @ 4:44PM|#

. . . will grant that at least you've managed to dredge up some quotes that would support the anti-Semitic charge in many more people's minds than would the "little Eichmann" quote on which Gillespie based his offhand charge. Perhaps Gillespie unconsciously assumed that being such a stereotypical to the hilt lefty, Churchill must have uttered this kind of thing at some point, and I suppose it's not much of a surprise that he indeed has.

fyodor,

I spent 5 minutes using google, and came up with these quotes. I don't claim they prove anything, but they are indicitive. Frankly, the origional Gillespie quotes brings to mind those who view 9/11 as a Zionist plot.

Finding conclusive proof is unlikely. Even Churchill is likely to have enough sense to really step in the do-do with a comment that proves he is an antisemite.

What I find amussing is GG and joe defending Churchill. My recollection is they were really down on Passion of the Christ.

fyodor|3.24.05 @ 5:00PM|#

I spent 5 minutes using google

You can do a lot of dredging in five minutes nowadays!! :-)

I don't claim they prove anything, but they are indicitive.

Uh...what? If they don't prove anything, what are they indicitive of?? I'd say they're indicitive of Churchill's sterotypical lockstep leftism but say nothing about his feelings about Jews. What are you saying?

the origional Gillespie quotes brings to mind those who view 9/11 as a Zionist plot.

That's even worse. It's perverse to accuse someone of a roundly despised POV just because something they said "recalls" something else said by people who do or at least might possess that POV. One could just as easily say that opposition to state coerced affirmative action "recalls" the desire of white supremacists to keep the races separate. Would you like such "logic" used on...YOU?

Finding conclusive proof is unlikely. Even Churchill is likely to have enough sense to really step in the do-do with a comment that proves he is an antisemite.

So the evidence that he's guilty is that it would be very difficult to find any "conclusive proof" that he's guilty? Please!!

What I find amussing is GG and joe defending Churchill.

Really??? I assume you're referring to some other thread, in which case my reaction is: Damn, I missed it!!! :-)

fyodor|3.24.05 @ 5:16PM|#

The more I think of it, the more it seems utterly absurd to say the "little Eichmanns" quote recalls the view of 9/11 as a Zionist plot. What's that supposed to mean, that Jews felt persecuted by the people at the WTC??? Even people who think Israel was in some shape or form behind 9/11 don't think that! They think Israel wanted to frame Arabs for political gain. No one would call the 9/11 victims "little Eichmanns" based on that analysis! That wouldn't make any sense!! I think you're determined to see what you choose to.

|3.24.05 @ 5:28PM|#

Wow, and I thought law students were incredibly anal-retentive.

fyodor|3.24.05 @ 5:39PM|#

More likely, he's just another left wing antisemite.

Don, you're too much! Interestingly, though, there's some truth to this reply of yours to joe:

Gee, joe, same argument you made when you defended Passion of the Christ from those who viewed it as antisemetic. Opps, no, you were one of the ones attacking in as antisemetic.

Unfortunately, though, you don't seem to learn from your own point. You're just as happy to use that bogus argument against those with whom you disagree as they are to use it against you! Amazing!! Well, maybe not so amazing considering you apparently equate "left wing" with "antisemite." That's what's amazing, the rest I guess is predictable. Oh well, Sarnath is right, I should leave it alone. It's just easy to get sucked in by someone who in some ways actually seems intelligent.

|3.24.05 @ 5:42PM|#

Part of Australia? Still, I suppose that's better than Birobidzhan or Madagascar.

Maybe we can send the Red Indians and Kurds there, too.

|3.24.05 @ 6:12PM|#

Oh, and to answer the implicit question, it is actually our fault that Fischer is in trouble. We've never liked him and at the 1992 coordination meeting of the WJC (World Jewish Conspiracy), the WCC (World Communist Conspiracy), the JBC (Jewish Banking Conpiracy) and the Trilateral Commission we decided to persecute him.

Just wanted y'all to know.

|3.24.05 @ 7:00PM|#

Uh...what? If they don't prove anything, what are they indicitive of?? I'd say they're indicitive of Churchill's sterotypical lockstep leftism but say nothing about his feelings about Jews. What are you saying?

Equating the state of Israel with the Nazis is indicitive of an antisemite.

That's even worse. It's perverse to accuse someone of a roundly despised POV just because something they said "recalls" something else said by people who do or at least might possess that POV.

Yes, you can live your life according to known facts and ignore nuance that "don't prove anything".

Churchill's 9/11 statements are what led me to dig farther for antisemtic statements. Had his statements been some other sort of vile leftist statement, I wouldn't have bothered looking.

But I looked, and I found something. Something stronger, but still inconclusive.

So I didn't accuse him of anything based upon the 9/11 comments--I just suspected there might be something out there.

Nice of you to accuse me of accusing him--you are a hypocrit.

So the evidence that he's guilty is that it would be very difficult to find any "conclusive proof" that he's guilty? Please!!

Did I say that was evidence? Accusing me of something w/o proof again?

|3.24.05 @ 7:06PM|#

I give Bobby F two months before those nice Icelanders decide they've had enough of his lunatic shit and throw his gibbering ass off a fishing boat.

|3.24.05 @ 7:07PM|#

Unfortunately, though, you don't seem to learn from your own point. You're just as happy to use that bogus argument against those with whom you disagree as they are to use it against you!

Actually, I am not claiming Churchill is an antisemite. I am simply saying that he indeed said things indicitive of an antisemite.

Amazing!! Well, maybe not so amazing considering you apparently equate "left wing" with "antisemite." That's what's amazing, . . .

Hmm. I'll have to review my posts and see if I said anything like that. I'm pretty sure I've said things like "leftist antisemite", but I certainly didn't mean to indicate that all leftists are antisemitic. Maybe I miswrote something, maybe you are accusing me w/o proof again.

|3.24.05 @ 7:12PM|#

That's even worse. It's perverse to accuse someone of a roundly despised POV just because something they said "recalls" something else said by people who do or at least might possess that POV.

I'm kinda wondering how Churchill's POV could be worse than what he's clearly stated.

By this I mean, if you murdered 2 innocent people, are you really better than if you murdered 5?

In Churchill's case, he thinks murdering American capitalists is OK. Somehow, he would be worse if he thinks it OK to murder them because they are Jews?

|3.24.05 @ 7:44PM|#

"We've never liked him..."

Ahhh, the "we" word.

|3.24.05 @ 9:34PM|#

The question is not whether they should be hung. The question is how well they are hung.

Thank you, I'm here all week! Don't forget to tip your waitress!

|3.24.05 @ 10:26PM|#

Nick:

"...chess great Bobby Fischer, who the Free World still owes a solid (thank you) to for kicking Boris Spassky's rotten commie ass."

Absolutely! And we cheered him on as he dealt a savage blow to the myth of the "superior Soviet man". Soviet chess and the state schools which nurtured it were used by the Commie propaganda front.

Bobby's success increased the popularity of chess in this country dramatically. Fischer even changed the way we played chess. Emulating his aggressive style became in vogue as did the popularity of the Sicilian defense, his almost certain response to e4. The common notation which recorded the start of a Sicilian defense back then was: P-K4 P-QB4

Before I go any further, for those who are interested, I can't say enough good things about:
Bobby Fischer Goes To War: How the Soviets Lost the Most Extraordinary Chess Match of All Time by David Edmonds and John Eidinow:

http://tinyurl.com/5z3a3

I went to a talk by Eidinow here in Denver before I read the volume. He was very strong. (To use a chess idiom) ;)

There's some comfort in the notion that Bobby's extreme quirkiness, which in now manifesting itself in the ugliness of anti-Jewish racism, may indeed be attributable to a mental illness afflicting him. (What would Thomas Szasz say?)
BTW, John Eidinow claims that Fischer, despite all, has always maintained perfectly amicable relations with chess players who are Jewish.

"Fischer was in jail because of an extradition order to the U.S. for having played a '92 chess match in Yugoslavia in violation of sanctions then in effect (which does sound like bullshit, though somehow I doubt Jews had much to do with it)."

No matter the disgust one registers at his racism, which goes so deep that it includes his promotion of the Protocols forgery, it's outrage that should greet this ridiculous injustice that our government has visited upon Fischer. This BS is so out of left field, and so dated, that it may be due to some with influence with or within our government who are offended by Bobby's racist blathering.

|3.25.05 @ 11:52AM|#

RB:Second: There is heavy evidence, accumulated from mainstream sources, that the Israeli government had prior knowledge (but not that they were involved in the planning) of the 9/11 attacks:

http://www.antiwar.com/israeli-files.php

I went to the above site, followed several links. One thing I found was this:

. . . The Mossad also had its sights on Atta's accomplice Khalid al-Midhar, with whom the CIA was also familiar, but allowed to run free. The Mossad apparently warned their American counterparts several times about the terrorists, especially about al-Midhar. The American government later admitted that they had received such warnings prior to September 11. But at most that there were attacks planned against American installations outside the United States.

Die Zeit has learned that a few weeks before the attacks, Israeli intelligence gave US authorities a list with names of suspects who were staying in the US for the purpose of preparing attacks. Apparently not until shortly before September 11 did the CIA recognize that al-Midhar was dangerous and asked law enforcement agencies to look for him.

Oh, those dasterdly Israelis! Warning American intelligence about terrorists!

|3.25.05 @ 11:53AM|#

Uh, this was also a quote:

Die Zeit has learned that a few weeks before the attacks, Israeli intelligence gave US authorities a list with names of suspects who were staying in the US for the purpose of preparing attacks. Apparently not until shortly before September 11 did the CIA recognize that al-Midhar was dangerous and asked law enforcement agencies to look for him.

|3.25.05 @ 1:19PM|#

This isn't simply about criticism of the Israeli state, it is about equating the Nazi genocide of Jews with the Isreali treatment of Palistinians.

As I pointed out, some of the actions of the Israeli government, vis a vis the Palestinian people and even Israel's own Arab population are quite Nazi like.

Most Israeli "murder" comes in the form of responses to terrorist attacks.

Your quote signs aroung the word murder are incorrect. Most of the murders of Palestinians by the Israeli government are commited in the course of maintaining the occupation of Palestinian land. The vast majority have nothing to do with attacks on Israeli civilians and "defending themselves".

from the Israeli perspective, maintaining a buffer from demonstratably hostile nations makes good sense.

Not the "buffer" excuse for theft! The occupation has had nothing to do with the pretext of "security" for Israel. What a weird security zone it is that the Israeli government puts civilians into! The occupation is the fruition of a long standing plan for a land grab.

Note that when Winston S. Churchill III in 1973 asked Ariel Sharon, "What is to become of the Palestinians land?" Sharon answered: "We'll make a pastrami sandwich of them. We'll insert a strip of Jewish settlement, in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlement, right across the West Bank, so that in twenty-five years time, neither the United Nations, nor the United States, nobody, will be able to tear it apart."

The Israeli government has never bargained in good faith.

|3.25.05 @ 2:07PM|#

Oh, those dasterdly Israelis! Warning American intelligence about terrorists!

I appreciate you following up the links but unless you're purposely cherry picking, I would suggest that you give them a closer reading and then you will see that The Israeli government apparently had very specific knowledge which they didn't share with us. They were even tailing some of the 9/11 hijackers.

|3.25.05 @ 2:15PM|#

Back on chess and Bobby, I just want to point out that the popularity of chess in Iceland, per capita, is unequaled in any other nation.