Sued for a Study

Unhelpful science?

GavelKeith BurtisA plaintiff's lawyer is suing a medical journal and two doctors because they published a case report that makes it harder to win birth-injury lawsuits.

Some newborns suffer from brachial plexus injury, a type of harm to a child's shoulder, arm, or hand that in a minority of cases results in permanent disability. A large volume of birth-injury litigation goes on as a result, in part because courts have tended to accept the idea that the only medically recognized cause of those conditions in newborns is excessive or traumatic use of physical force by clinicians ("traction").

In 2008, however, the American Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology published a case report of a delivery in which an infant was found to be suffering such injury although the physician by her own account had not applied any excessive traction during the birth. If natural forces of labor could cause the dislocation resulting in the condition, many lawsuits could rest on shakier ground. Since then, defense lawyers have cited the report, written by Henry Lerner of Harvard Medical School and Eva Salamon of the Bond Clinic in Florida, in litigation.

Now the National Law Journal reports that a Boston lawyer who claims to have debunked the Lerner-Salamon case study has sued its two authors, the journal's publisher, and Dr. Salamon's clinic for publishing and refusing to retract it. The attorney's clients are two families whose lawsuits did not succeed, allegedly because of the case report; he thinks they deserve $3 million each.

A trial court dismissed the case, in part on the grounds that the plaintiffs had not shown that the article was a material cause of the families' failure to prevail in the suits. Now the case is on appeal to the First Circuit, where defense lawyers are arguing, inter alia, that if there are weaknesses in the article the remedy for plaintiffs is to introduce evidence to that effect to counter it in trials. To instead penalize the paper's publisher and author, they note, would violate the First Amendment.

Update: the federal appeals court shot down the lawsuit without reaching the constitutional issue of free speech. Instead, it upheld a lower court's ruling that the plaintiff had not done enough to show that expert testimony reliance on the allegedly faulty article had resulted in the loss of the litigation at issue. It called the plaintiffs' theory "imaginative but unpersuasive."

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  • PapayaSF||

    What do you call 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? A good start.

    Did you hear that they are now using lawyers instead of rats in laboratory experiments? Lawyers breed faster, lab assistants don't become emotionally attached to them, and there are some things a rat won't do.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Did you hear that they are now using lawyers instead of rats in laboratory experiments? Lawyers breed faster, lab assistants don't become emotionally attached to them, and there are some things a rat won't do.

    -Robin Williams (as Peter Banning, AKA Peter Pan), Hook, 1991

  • BiMonSciFiCon||

    We're you the host of a party I was at last night? Cause I heard your second one for the first time last night.

  • PapayaSF||

    Not me. The joke's been around for years.

  • Generic Stranger||

    There are actually only three lawyer jokes in existence. The rest are true stories.

  • Oremus||

    Q. Why do lawyers wear ties?

    A. So their foreskin doesn't roll up.

  • croaker||

    Are you aware that it's possible to become pregnant from anal sex?

    Where do you think lawyers come from?

  • Will4Freedom||

    A ship goes down in the middle of shark infested waters. Only survivors are three Lawyers. News reporter asks why they weren’t eaten like the others.

    Professional courtesy.

  • Deep Lurker||

    Do you know what the problem is, with lawyer jokes? Lawyers don't think they're funny, and non-lawyers don't think they're jokes.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    It has been said that attorney Ken Levine is a cocksucker who files frivolous lawsuits. It has also been said that Ken Levine should chew on the end of five or six sawn off shotguns.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Why didn't he also name the baby in the suit? Clearly it shares part of the fault.

  • RightNut||

    The attorney's clients are two families whose lawsuits did not succeed, allegedly because of the case report;

    Shouldn't they be suing their own lawyers for not succeeding in the lawsuit? That would be great, all the trial lawyers figuratively cannibalizing each other.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Why not sue the jury for the verdict?

  • John C. Randolph||

    Wow.. I've heard of sleazy shysters before, but trying to shut down medical research so that they can win cases? Fuck those guys. The entire medical profession should boycott them to death.

    -jcr

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Loser pays would end this kind of bullshit.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    I would prefer "loser's lawyer pays" but I'll take what we can get.

  • croaker||

    Doesn't go far enough. Loser's lawyer has to spend 24 hours locked in the stocks and anyone can throw anything at him that isn't instantly lethal.

  • cavalier973||

    "Instantly", huh?

    Hmmmm....

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Fracking saves water and prevents droughts, says study

    “The bottom line is that hydraulic fracturing, by boosting natural gas production and moving the state from water-intensive coal technologies, makes our electric power system more drought-resilient,” Bridget Scanlon, senior research scientist at UT’s Bureau of Economic Geology, said.
  • Sevo||

    Be prepared for a law suit.

  • Sevo||

    Oh, and:
    "California energy-rebate program draws few takers"
    [...]
    "California's 3-year-old effort to improve the energy efficiency of 100,000 homes has fallen far short of its initial goals, upgrading about 12,200 so far, state data show."
    http://www.sfgate.com/news/art.....097225.php

    Looks like we have the greeny equivalent of O'care, but they managed to spend ~$250M so far in management and 'start-up' costs. So, for what are supposed to be $4,500/home, we're paying ~$15K in admin?
    Yep, sounds like O'care to me.

  • ||

    Originally funded through President Obama's stimulus package, Energy Upgrade California offers rebates worth up to $4,500 for homeowners who swap out their old furnaces and duct work, install insulation, seal leaky window frames or take other steps to make their houses more efficient.

    There's a good use for tax money: spend millions to upgrade the energy efficiency of houses in the most temperate state around. It's December 28th and 75 degrees here today. Man, it sure would be nice if I had some triple-paned windows to leave open.

  • PapayaSF||

    Look on the bright side: it helped get rid of some of that excess Federal revenue that has been plaguing us for so long, and the Earth's average temperature will now be .00000000001 degree cooler in 50 years.

  • Curtisls87||

    Christ, I did these things 13 years ago because it made sense for me to do so. What a waste of government money.

  • Sevo||

    "What a waste of government money."

    It'd be a waste if it actually accomplished what you did in N number of homes.
    It DIDN'T; it was blown on hiring someone's drunken uncle as 'adviser to somebody or other' X times.

  • msimmons||

    The gubmint doesn't have any of it's own money to waste. They're wasting the money they confiscate from the people who pay taxes, even future gens who will be paying off debt and interest on same.

  • BakedPenguin||

    I'm willing to bet that over half the people who got those subsidies have a net worth in excess of $1MM.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    Depending on success of this latest shyster-scheme, it either is a new weapon or threat to Warmers and the Church of Carbontology. Only time will tell.

  • Kid Xenocles||

    Looking like the Jets are keeping Rex Ryan, which is excellent news for me.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    a Boston lawyer

    Who is this august member of the Star Chamber?

  • ||

    Hmph. More fake scandals.....

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/.....ck_check=1

  • Pope Jimbo||

    This will really hit home for these lawyers when this ends up shutting down the research into the cure and treatment for Ovine Herpes.

    I'm guessing that that research is very, very important to them.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Grand Theft Auto V promotes violence against women

    Like many teenagers, students in New York City's poorest neighborhood, the South Bronx, play Grand Theft Auto V...

    They play at night instead of doing their homework. It's cool to pick up prostitutes. This is how you learn to "be a man". And while those students play their game, in their neighborhood, perhaps under their window, real prostitutes walk.

    Man high school culture sure has changed in 5 years for me. Now prostitution is cool?

    Millie was one of them, a woman who worked in South Bronx, who walked the streets. She stood on the track, a simulacrum of game pixels. Her hair was short and curly and she had an accent. Maybe she asked men, "want to party?"

    She's dead now, dead like the on-screen women that are fun to kill. There, game and real women split. Millie died of an infection to the heart after too many hits of heroin into an abscess. She was an addict.

    That might be the weirdest non-sequitur ever.

    Many Bronx students, mostly males, many of whom live in shelters or subsist in the foster care system, play GTA V and laugh. They play a game advertised to them, one that insidiously belittles their world, giving them lessons on what to mock about it.

    These teenagers have the power to reign over those whores. Game and real women merge.

    No they don't, you're the one making that connection

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Her twitter is gold.

    Cassie Rodenberg ‏@cassierodenberg

    I'm sad that this week has taught me not to engage with people. That's a hard lesson.

    Geordie Guy ‏@GordyPls 47m

    @cassierodenberg then you've learned the wrong lesson. You wrote an article which posited something ridiculous and refuted by the research.

    And it continues on and on. Not a single person commented positively on her article.

  • ||

    My orphans have finally learned to polish monocles without my oversight, so I have time to ask a rhetorical question. Isn't it a good thing that women with no skills still have something they can sell?

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    Sex workers need skills--social, sexual, intimacy--if they want repeat customers. I'd imagine high-class prostitutes are hugely refined people.

    But I'm just being a contrarian. Mutually beneficial voluntary arrangements are good for everyone, lonely man and whore alike. It's the scold who's always bringing up externalities (or whatever word scolds would use to justify using threats and violence to interfere in two-party choices).

  • General Butt Naked||

    She writes for SciAm which is a good indication of why I cancelled my subscription.

    It went from being an engaging and thought provoking science magazine to a politically charged pop-sci monthly for innumerate lefties.

    Gawd.

  • Irish||

    Wait, she writes for a science magazine?

    With quotes like this:

    Sarah works the track, too. Her face is lined with grime, and she lives in a van on the side of the road, sometimes under the bridge of an overpass. She wears sneakers and sweatshirts, whatever she finds, instead of stockings. At work, she passes other women: Pepsi, Desire, Beauty, Egypt, Niecy. Other women who work to placate an addiction birthed by a lifetime's worth of abuse and bad circumstances that landed them there. They fear ending up like Millie, the dead one.

    You'll notice she doesn't make any causal link between Grand Theft Auto and the condition these women are living in. That's something you'd expect a science writer to do.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Yeah, millie died from an infection from shooting dope. Which probably wouldn't have happened if dope and hooking were legal. What that has to do with GTA is beyond my ken.

    Also...

    Is Sarah the reincarnation of Chris Farley?

  • ||

    she doesn't make any causal link between Grand Theft Auto and the condition these women are living in.

    WHAT!??!

    It is common knowledge that no prostitute ever died from a heroin overdoes before GTA V was released. And they all lived and worked in pristine hygienic conditions.

    No link is needed. Everyone, but you, already knows this.

  • Rhywun||

    They have PlayStations in shelters now...? NOTHING TO CUT.

  • ||

    • This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does.

    No it doesn't. If anything it costs points...ie it costs money.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    It's December 28th and 75 degrees here today. Man, it sure would be nice if I had some triple-paned windows to leave open.

    Clap, damn you!

  • Hawk Spitui||

  • cavalier973||

    Humor “makes us free.”
    That was Bob Newhart’s observation during a commencement address at my alma mater, the Catholic University of America in 1997. “As long as the tyrant cannot control the minds of free men, they remain free,” the comedian continued. “Humor abounded behind the Iron Curtain and in POW camps. Humor is also our way of dealing with the inexplicable. We had an earthquake a couple of years ago in Los Angeles, and it wasn’t more than three or four days later that I heard the first earthquake joke. Someone said, ‘The traffic is stopped, but the freeways are moving.’”

    “Laughter gives us distance,” he went on to say.

    Newhart continued:

    It allows us to step back from an event over which we have no control and deal with it and then move on with our lives. It helps distinguish us from animals. No matter what hyenas sound like, they are not actually laughing. It also helps define our sanity. The schizophrenic has no sense of humor. His world is a constantly daunting, unfriendly place. The rational man is able to find humor in his.
    Erasmus wrote in Praise of Folly, “No society, no union in life could be either pleasant or lasting without me,” of course, meaning folly.
  • cavalier973||

    People with a sense of humor tend to be less egocentric and more realistic in their view of the world and more humble in moments of success and less defeated in times of travail. I certainly don’t delude myself that there aren’t certainly more important things to do in life than make people laugh, but I can’t imagine anything that would bring me more joy.
  • Cytotoxic||

    Oh poor Derpyshire where will he plya racism and soft-white supremacy now?

  • Irish||

    Same with Sam Francis who got fired from the Washington Times and also makes the list of those 'purged.'

    A lively controversialist, Francis began with some largely valid complaints about how the Southern heritage is demonized in mainstream culture. He went on, however, to attack the liberal principles of humanism and universalism for facilitating "the war against the white race." At one point he described country music megastar Garth Brooks as "repulsive" because "he has that stupid universalist song, in which we all intermarry." His fellow whites, he insisted, must "reassert our identity and our solidarity, and we must do so in explicitly racial terms through the articulation of a racial consciousness as whites... The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted to a different people.

    Yeah. My heart bleeds for this guy. How could the Times fire such a shining light of reason?

  • Cytotoxic||

    Conservatives and their martyr complex. One of the reasons they can't win.

  • ||

    Ironically though, if you substituted any other race or identity group in that statement, it could easily have come from any respected head of a sociology department in the finest universities of America and nobody would bat an eye. Not saying it makes it any better, just that the double standard is rather glaring.

  • Irish||

    That's because modern progressives are terrible racists that allow horrible racism to be uttered by people who represent their chosen ethnic groups.

    As you said, that doesn't give Samuel 'White Racial Solidarity!' Francis an excuse.

  • ||

    Absolutely, I'm not saying he's any better. Just that there's people with identical beliefs that will never get fired for them. It's not a defense of the behavior, I just hate the hypocrisy and the double standards. Particularly when these same people are held up as the high priests of tolerance.

  • msimmons||

  • msimmons||

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Derbyshire is still pissed that Bruce Lee kicked his ass.

  • Acosmist||

    Yeah that's NOT what he did. But "racism" has no meaning anymore.

  • Irish||

    Yeah that's NOT what he did. But "racism" has no meaning anymore.

    You're right that the word 'racist' has been totally degraded and has been applied to people who are not racists. However, Derbyshire is definitely a racist.

    The first page has some questionable arguments, but the second page goes batshit insane.

    (10a) Avoid concentrations of blacks not all known to you personally.

    (10b) Stay out of heavily black neighborhoods.

    (10c) If planning a trip to a beach or amusement park at some date, find out whether it is likely to be swamped with blacks on that date (neglect of that one got me the closest I have ever gotten to death by gunshot).

    (10g) Before voting for a black politician, scrutinize his/her character much more carefully than you would a white.

    (10h) Do not act the Good Samaritan to blacks in apparent distress, e.g., on the highway.

    (13) In that pool of forty million, there are nonetheless many intelligent and well-socialized blacks. (I’ll use IWSB as an ad hoc abbreviation.) You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs. In addition to the ordinary pleasures of friendship, you will gain an amulet against potentially career-destroying accusations of prejudice.

    In other words, treat black people differently, but make friends with the good ones so you can pretend you aren't a racist.

  • Irish||

    Here's another great one:

    (15) Unfortunately the demand is greater than the supply, so IWSBs are something of a luxury good, like antique furniture or corporate jets: boasted of by upper-class whites and wealthy organizations, coveted by the less prosperous.

    Yeah, what's racist about comparing intelligent black people to furniture and corporate jets?

  • shut the fuck up mary||

    "Yeah, what's racist about comparing intelligent black people to furniture and corporate jets?"

    Nothing, especially since that isn't what he did.

    Why lie about something so trivial?

  • Hawk Spitui||

  • Marshall Gill||

    Replying to an article? One that is as racist as can be? So he was parodying actual racists? RAAAAACCCIIIISSSTTTT!!!!11!!!!ONE

  • General Butt Naked||

    I wouldn't call Bill Maher's firing for his 9/11 comments a "leftist/progressive intimidation incident".

    Unless Bush is now considered a "progressive"*.

    *arguable

  • ||

    I wouldn't call Bill Maher's firing for his 9/11 comments a "leftist/progressive intimidation incident".

    I wouldn't even call it a firing for his 9/11 comments, seeing as it came a year after the fact.

  • Not an Economist||

    If I remember right, Maher's show was a ratings disaster when he made those comments, and would have been canceled anyway. The comments just sped up the process a little bit. Then he got his show on HBO and all was well.

  • rogerfgay||

    Tricky business this. I'm all for academic freedom and free speech. And science is a big deal. We wouldn't have the modern world without it. But we shouldn't allow our protection to serve as safe havens for criminals. There are entirely too many "for hire" academics out there, in everything. Perhaps the best known example is with the global warming scam. Even scientists lie and cheat for money. And due to the importance of science, the harm done can be great.

    That doesn't mean I know how this case should go. I'm just commenting generally. I've gotten so fed up with the bad apples that it's making some sense to me to just reach in, pull them out, and cast them aside. If there really is some intentional fraud involved, then the scientists should be liable legally, as they are in real life.

  • Irish||

    There's no evidence that these people published this article with any malicious intent.

    If it can be proven that they actually lied, or that they were given money to produce lies specifically for use in criminal defense, then you might have a point. You can't sue someone for publishing an article just because the article is factually wrong. The freezing effect on speech would be enormous.

  • ||

    Sure you can. You can sue for just about anything. Prevailing is a different question, but given the legal system as it stands, a plaintiff can achieve most of what he wants without prevailing.

  • Marshall Gill||

    As Mark Steyn says, the procedure IS the punishment.

  • ||

    " If there really is some intentional fraud involved, then the scientists should be liable legally,..."

    Should this hold true only for scientific periodical publications or should anyone and everyone anywhere and anytime mendacity is detected? Who will do the detecting?

    Should we peruse the H&R comments section looking for people who do not argue in good faith?

    I am gonna say no. No law means no law.

  • UCrawford||

    There is a precedent for holding medical journals and their authors liable for publishing false information. The Lancet study that claimed that MMR vaccinations were linked to autism is the biggest example. It was found that the researcher knowingly used flawed, incomplete research to make his argument because he was in league with trial lawyers to make it easier for them to sue vaccine manufacturers. Basically, it was a form of libel and fraud...and if that were the case in this instance, the lawyer suing would be correct. That said, I think this suit is probably bullshit.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

  • ||

    Good point.

  • IDPNDNT||

    I believe in global warming, but I don't support the progressive solutions to it. I would sooner adapt to it's ill effects than sacrifice liberty to prevent it.

    You'd be hard pressed to prove that scientists who believe in GW are all in some conspiracle scam.

  • ||

    Heh. Especially the ones on the Russian research vessel that got frozen into the Antarctic ice in mid-summer.

  • cavalier973||

    I believe in global warming, but I don't support the progressive solutions to it. I would sooner adapt to it's ill beneficial effects than sacrifice liberty to prevent it.

    FIFY

  • DenverJay||

    Thank you! Was going to post the exact same thing!

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    You mean aside from the gatekeeping they performed at major journals, of course. De Freitas comes to mind... As well as hide the decline and the gaming of FOIA.

    I'm not the tinfoil hat type. Oswald killed Kennedy. Roswell was completely terrestrial. Occam was a smart man. But we've got actual e-mail evidence that a relatively small group of influential researchers actively tried to suppress dissenting voices in the CAGW community.

  • UCrawford||

    Yup...and Fox was the only major news outlet in the States that covered it in any depth. The East Anglia e-mails showed actual attempts to silence dissent to the global warming "consensus".

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    The way to deal with fraudulent research is to discredit the work with solid science, and force them to resign or the institution to fire them for academic misconduct, and claw back the research dollars, i.e. Pons and Fleischmann or Schon

    That's how the system is supposed to work.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Saw Schon documentary a few years ago. It's a pretty good summary of the events.

    It's really amazing how far he got running on pure bullshit.

  • Irish||

    He did that in a hard science field.

    Now imagine how easy it must be to blatantly lie in a journal devoted to gender studies.

  • Sevo||

    Or Lit Crit; see Sokal.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    Just goes to show that peer review really doesn't mean all that much. Too much of the system is pushed around by political power brokers. Hell, one of my papers is shit. It's not wrong, but it just wasn't very good. But my adviser is a god in my field (maybe THE god amongst those still living), so published we are.

    The way that science is validated is by replication of results, open data, and the notion of falsifiability. Something the CAGW crew don't seem to understand.

  • ||

    Peer review has turned into a cabal of gatekeepers rather than cooperative peers striving for truth, as happens in virtually all such institutions.

  • cavalier973||

    Is this paper available online?

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    The New York Times: Benghazi was fueled by Muslim video

    The Times finds no evidence that al-Qaida or any other international terrorist group played any role in the attack:

    “The attack was led, instead, by fighters who had benefited directly from NATO’s extensive air power and logistics support during the uprising against Colonel Qaddafi. And contrary to claims by some members of Congress, it was fueled in large part by anger at an American-made video denigrating Islam.”

    The video in question refers to the “Innocence of Muslims”, a 14-minute film uploaded to YouTube in the summer of 2012.

    While some may see the report as a vindication of sorts for the Obama administration and former U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice, who in early days cast the event as a spontaneous response to this YouTube posting, the Times says the reality is “murkier” and “wasn’t without warning signs.”

    Does it make a difference, at this point?

  • PapayaSF||

    I thought the "video" theory was pretty debunked. For one thing, the original administration story was that it was a demonstration that turned violent. Everything I've read since is that it was a very coordinated attack by disciplined fighters, and that there was no demonstration at all.

    So now they're saying that a video inflamed an Islamic militia group, one with no Al Qaeda ties, and caused them to mount an organized attack?

  • Irish||

    On 9/11. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the date may have had some relevance.

    The attack was led, instead, by fighters who had benefited directly from NATO’s extensive air power and logistics support during the uprising against Colonel Qaddafi.

    (Snip)

    While some may see the report as a vindication of sorts for the Obama administration

    So Barack Obama's willingness to intervene in Libya's civil war directly benefited the people who would later kill Ambassador Stevens? This vindicates him how?

  • ||

    It is the New York Times. According to rogerrgay above they should all be in shackles.

  • Cytotoxic||

    So the Time is just straight-up lying.

  • ||

    SOP

  • PapayaSF||

    Is there small print noting that it's a campaign contribution for Hillary 2016? There should be.

  • ||

    it was fueled in large part by anger at an American-made video denigrating Islam.

    One problem...the video only had like 500 views before the attack, and had been up for a month before it.

  • ||

    Holy Goatfucking Jesus. We make jokes about the Stupid Party snatching defeat from the jaws of victory all the time here, but I the jokes really dont do justice.

    Saxby Chambliss is retiring from the Senate. This should be a super easy seat for the Rs to pick up given the colossal fuckups of the Dems.

    What R is trying to fill it? None of than Paul 'evolution, embryology, and the big bang theory are lies from the pits of hell' Broun.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rikEWuBrkHc

  • Cytotoxic||

  • IDPNDNT||

    You know sometimes I try to ponder what the rationale is behind dumb ass decisions like this, but can never come to a conclusion.

    Americans are becoming increasingly irreligious, so let's bring in more Jesus. That'll surely get those votes.

  • ||

    The dems dont pretend to be small government, rule of law types so why not let them do the dirty work of turning us into a totalitarian police state?

    That is all I have got. It is easier to believe that than that the Rs are really that stupid.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    True believers. No other way for it to make sense.

  • PapayaSF||

    Aargh. Still, I'd rather have a Congresscritter who didn't believe in evolution or abortion but did believe in free enterprise and the Constitution, than the other way around.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Agree, but first said critter must actually be elected. Which is kinda tough when you can't shut up about jesus, rape, and homos for two seconds.

    Fuck, just keep that shit to yourself. I think these wackos use their own wacko families and fellow church wackos as focus groups. "TELL US MORE ABOUT THE RAPE MYTH!! PRAISE JESUS!!"

  • Cytotoxic||

    He also has to believe in and prioritize protection of free markets and the GOP Jesus Squad has a bad record in that regard. They also tend to come attached to xenophobia.

  • ||

    Not a bad point, but the trouble is that they dont really believe in free enterprise or the constitution.

    We are back to the least stinky turd argument.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Free enterprise and evolution go hand-in-hand as both are expressions of spontaneous order arising from deterministic chaos. I don't understand how one could accept one concept and not accept the other at its most fundamental level.

    Not that a belief in evolution automatically implies atheism, of course. The Deist "God as (blind) watchmaker" is a fully compatible belief with the two mentioned above, but again, some might argue that its not a necessary belief, as well.

  • PapayaSF||

    Very true. I try to use the evolution = free enterprise argument on my leftist friends, but they can't get beyond "social Darwinism."

  • cavalier973||

    Progressivism/statism and evolution go hand-in-hand as both have as a core belief that man is nothing more than a chemical machine that can be manipulated to engage in certain activities; that society's elites, given the power to fiddle with people's lives, can improve society for the better.

  • Michael Ejercito||

    How many voters actually care about evolution?

  • PapayaSF||

    Hard to say. I doubt if many candidates lose votes for believing in it, but I think some lose votes for not.

  • ||

    Yeah, I'm sure the cosmopolitan sophisticates in Georgia will be turned right the fuck off by that. If the GOP was smart they'd see if Olympia Snowe is up for a run!

    All politics is local.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Metro Atlanta Area population: ~8mil

    Georgia Total population: ~9.5mil

  • Irish||

    Metro Atlanta Area includes a fuckload of white suburban Georgians.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I don't know the exact demographics of suburban Atlantians, and would accept the argument that they skew republican. I'd wager that they're not the snake handling, baby jesus on a stegosaurus type of conservative.

  • ||

    None of than Paul 'evolution, embryology, and the big bang theory are lies from the pits of hell' Broun.

    The big bang theory is bullshit.

    Why would everything, you know with a mass equal to everything and compressed into a space infinity small and having an event horizon bigger then shit mountain, expand outward yet something as comparably small as a star will collapse into a black hole.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Got a better theory?

  • ||

    Nope.

    Got a reason why we need one?

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Yep. I want to understand where we came from and predict where we are going.

  • ||

    Two giant black holes that each had the mass of 1 trillion universes passed within a few 1000 light years of each other.

    In the wake of their passing everything we can see was made.

    The future is the visible universe will slowly degrade into black holes and back ground radiation...or maybe "we" will luck out and another eddy from the wake of those two giant black holes passing will collide with us...or at least become visible in the sky.

    I have another one to fill your "void" but that one involves dragons and hordes of named women.

  • ||

    I want to understand where we came from and predict where we are going.

    Our entire species is with 100% certainty going to be dead within a few billion years in the absolutely best case scenario. The origin and end of the material universe is so infinitesimally irrelevant to anything we will ever do that that there's no utility in knowing it, besides I guess bragging rights. The Big Bang doesn't really get to our origins anyway. How the pure energy got condensed to what amounts to an infinitely small size so that it could explode so violently that it coalesced into matter is still completely unknown. Unless it possesses the supernatural quality of existing without beginning, there's a step before the Big Bang.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Our universe was created when a ginormous turtle swimming through the ether puked. Our universe is that puke and it will end as the turtle slowing re consumes it.

  • ||

    Different set of laws in effect for those two examples.

  • PapayaSF||

    Yes.

  • shut the fuck up mary||

    "The big bang theory is bullshit."

    I had no idea you were one of those idiots that doesn't understand physics.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Krugman: Bitcoin Is Evil Those are his actual words.

    they dislike activist government on political grounds, and this leads them to make really bad arguments about why fiscal stimulus can’t work and monetary stimulus will be disastrous.

    Projection.

    Underpinning the value of the dollar is a combination of (a) the fact that you can use them to pay your taxes to the U.S. government, and (b) that the Federal Reserve is a potential dollar sink and has promised to buy them back and extinguish them if their real value starts to sink at (much) more than 2%/year (yes, I know).

    Ludicrous.

    I'll give progtards like Krugman one thing: they can have good instincts. Deep down, they know Bitcoin is-for them and their ideas-become Death, destroyer of worlds. Their world.

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    Thank you for reading Krugman so that I don't have to.

    As revealed during PK's recent defense of an increased minimum wage, Keynesians still can't tell the difference between a politically motivated statistician and an economist.

  • PapayaSF||

    In the '90s, before he became a Team Blue hack, Krugman argued against the minimum wage.

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    Yeah, but that was before the NYT called on him to serve as Nobel Ballast for whatever economically illiterate BS that violates neoclassical theory that the Democrats wanted to do this week.

    Krugman always rises to the occasion.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    I love (a). Nice to see his colors showing. The very best thing you can do with a dollar is pay your taxes.

    And for (b)? How does the Fed buy them back? Why they offer you federal treasuries to be paid back in, um, dollars? And what happens if the going market rate for the treasuries is less than what the Fed "paid" for them? I mean trying to dump $2TT worth of notes on the market has to drive prices up, right? Guess that money supply thing isn't guaranteed to be sanitized after all.

    How can someone be so wrong so often and still have any credibility?

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    They're going to offer us the wonderful assets that they've been purchasing from Wall Street at perfectly fair market prices since Nov. 2008. I'm sure Wall Street is champing at the bit to buy those back.

  • ||

    Also, GM stock. That's gotta be worth a mint, amirite?

  • Count Negroni||

    I was just reading that, too, and thinking about posting it. The comments are pretty wonderfully "profound" in that sense of people who think they are being profound, but are mostly just confused.

    Bitcoins are tulip bulbs created by techies, with their penchant for fantasy role-play, that have found mass appeal amongst those inhabiting an ideological Zuider Zee, recently walled-off and drained by Right Wing extremists veiling themselves as merely Eurosceptics or champions of liberty, Libertarian.

    Really a *lot* of negative articles and editorials the past few weeks. They're scared.

  • Irish||

    The grammar in that comment is appalling. I wouldn't normally mock the grammar in an internet comment, but when you're trying to impress pseudointellectual fellow traveler's with your giant brain, it generally helps to write sentences that are actually coherent.

  • Count Negroni||

    The problem with bitcoin is that it is not a unit of account. Units are definable in objective terms and are a constant. Bitcoin is not definable and is not a constant. Bitcoin has the same problem as the dollar, it is not definable. I suggest 1 unit of currency = 1 joule of work! .... That idea is the most powerful idea on the planet.

    Profound!

    I did skip a couple of leading sentences and a trailing paragraph of crap, original here.

  • Irish||

    What the fuck does that comment even mean?

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    If these clowns had their way, we'd all be digging holes each morning and filling them in during the evening.

  • ||

    Uh....I ....uh....it's just...ummm. What the fuck was that?

  • Ornithorhynchus||

    David Gerrold wrote about basing currency on a unit of energy in the Chtorr series (although in his story it was the kilocalorie). And then he had a character explain why it was a stupid idea and just as subject to inflation and manipulation as fiat currency.

  • Generic Stranger||

    So...it's a currency based on the literal interpretation of the Marxist labor theory of value?

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    Look, he called you a right-wing extremist. That's your cue to go sit in the corner and cry, ok? Don't violate the social contract you signed with preening NYT commenters who nail together tortured clauses and call them sentences.

  • Irish||

    Mencken once said that the only thing necessary to have a good prose style is to have the ability to think clearly. If you have clear thoughts, then you should be able to put those thoughts together in an intelligible way.

    This is important to note because progressives seem to have the worst prose styles I have ever seen. Marcotte, Yglesias, every New York Times commenter, everyone who writes for Jezebel, the entire staff of Salon and Slate...none of them can write coherently.

    There is no better sign of their inability to think clearly than the jumble of nonsense that comes out when the start pounding their heads against a keyboard.

  • Irish||

    Mencken once said that the only thing necessary to have a good prose style is to have the ability to think clearly. If you have clear thoughts, then you should be able to put those thoughts together in an intelligible way.

    This is important to note because progressives seem to have the worst prose styles I have ever seen. Marcotte, Yglesias, every New York Times commenter, everyone who writes for Jezebel, the entire staff of Salon and Slate...none of them can write coherently.

    There is no better sign of their inability to think clearly than the jumble of nonsense that comes out when the start pounding their heads against a keyboard.

  • ||

    We should take into account that left-leaners really do think in a very different way than right leaners, and certainly very differently than the liberty minded.

    Salon makes perfect sense to Salon readers. It makes as much sense to you as a fart symphony because they are speaking a different language that just happens to contain the same word sounds as yours does.

    The trouble is that what they are effectively communicating to each does not qualify as rational thought.

  • Irish||

    No, it's incoherent regardless. I'm not talking about disagreeing with the substance of what they're saying, I'm talking about them having a style that is itself impenetrable.

    Actual Yglesias quote:

    Larry Summers’ brief talk on the negative interest-rate problem has set of [sic] a crazy of [sic] econoblogosphere talk about “secular stagnation” and persistent economywide demand shortages. (Daniel Alpert, who published a good book called The Age of Oversupply, recently must be frustrated that he failed to kick off this craze.) I want to try to restate what the relevant puzzle is in a way that I think meets Tyler Cowen’s objections.

    Actual Marcotte quote:

    The most amusing part of this Jezebel post asking what makes a feminist rock star has got to be the link to Tim Cavanaugh sniffily mansplaining to the women writing about women in music that their work is very cute, if missing a critical economic analysis that supposedly is the master mover of all musical trends, a theory that requires him to pretend America as a whole embraced bands like Huggy Bear and Excuse 17 that worked in a boom time.

    I could go on doing this with pretty much everyone working for Slate or Salon. The writing is literally impenetrable, often grammatically incorrect, and prone to ludicrous digressions that a clear minded individual wouldn't fall into.

  • ||

    Point taken.

  • JJ||

    Duckspeak

  • John C. Randolph||

    I have noticed a strong correlation between weak thinking and long-windedness. Iggie and the lynch mob bint both routinely substitute volume for substance.

    -jcr

  • PapayaSF||

    I think the issue with many progressives might be that because their political thinking is so based on emotions, they have a hard time translating their feelings into coherent arguments.

  • UCrawford||

    Orwell explained why that happens in one of the best things he ever wrote.

    https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

  • Cytotoxic||

    They should be scared. They blew their political load on an administration that could not have frittered it away better. We are very lucky that Obama was The Chosen One someone else could have done a lot more lasting damage. As it is, his hallmark legislation is a healthcare 'reform' that is basically self-repealing. In the short-term, they are politically fucked. In the medium term, as the dollar loses reserve status to China's Yuan (this is absolutely possible and probable) and money runs out for their 'ideas', they are economicall fucked. In the long-term, as cryptocurrency and other innovations take away the power they want, they are existentially fucked. Napoleon was in better shape on his way back from Moscow.

  • BigT||

    Cyto, you are too optimistic. All of this will be blamed on the bankers, big industry, tea partiers, and racism. Too many people accept the MSM without question.

    It's sad.

  • Cytotoxic||

    All of this will be blamed on the bankers, big industry, tea partiers, and racism.

    Didn't work in 2010, won't work this time. Even if it were true, so what? Those technological innovations are still going online. Can't stop me from buying BTC.

    Too many people accept the MSM without question.

    Even their powers are fading. The MSM's narrative on Zimmerman and Newtown was rejected by most.

  • ||

    Didn't work in 2010

    Conveniently glossing over 2012...

  • General Butt Naked||

    Obama didn't need his lapdog media for '12, Romney did all the work for 'em.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    as the dollar loses reserve status to China's Yuan (this is absolutely possible and probable)

    Don't you think it's more probably that the Euro would take reserve status than the Yuan, being that as long as China pays lip-service to Communism, bankers would (rightfully) feel skittish about investing in it?

    Of course, if the movement catches on we're all fucked.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    *the Islamic gold dinar movement

  • Cytotoxic||

    The Euro? They're printing about as fast as America, and don't have the political stability.

    The only thing holding back the Yuan are capital controls. I'm hoping the Shenzen free zone will punch a hole in them.

  • PapayaSF||

    Eh, China is a house of cards in many ways: massive corruption, massive pollution, ethnic strife, regular violent demonstrations, a coming demographic collapse. I wouldn't invest in yuan.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Don't you think it's more probably that the Euro would take reserve status than the Yuan,

    Nope. The dollars reserve status springs from US military hegemony. And there is no credible prospect to that hegemony on the horizon.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    ...no credible threat to that hegemony...

  • VG Zaytsev||

    We are very lucky that Obama was The Chosen One someone else could have done a lot more lasting damage.

    I'm not so sure of that. The worst legacy of Obama will be the move towards dictatorship - his flat out ignoring laws and precedents when no just rewriting them by fiat. I don't think that any other pol would have been given a pass on that like he has and now that precedent has been set it's very doubtful that we will return to the status quo ante after he is gone.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Wow. Someone dug up this quote from Krugman (circa 1998):

    The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in "Metcalfe's law"--which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants--becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's.

    Again, wow. Just... Wow. People actually follow this guy.

  • Count Negroni||

    I was just going to post that.

    New game: figure out what Krugman quote on Bitcoin will be the next "Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's."

    I suppose it should have a "in 15 years" or something like that, but I suspect we won't have to go nearly that far for the quote to be great.

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    most people have nothing to say to each other!

    Were you an elitist, cold-hearted, aspy little shit, this would make perfect sense to you.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    Wow. Someone dug up this quote from Krugman (circa 1998):

    Ah, yes. Krugman's Enron Era. In pretty much anything technology, he's not just his usual clowny self but demonstrably so.

    There just isn't room in even a Hello World program for one to write it wrong, look at the output error, and say it's right; or look at the other guy's program work, and say it's wrong.

    Which makes tech not very compatible with Krugman-talents, such as they are.

  • Irish||

    He's also the one who made about a dozen articles after the Obamacare launch saying the website would definitely be working any day now.

    It literally took him a month to admit he had no idea if it was going to work or when. Given that he had no inside information regarding the state of the website, why the fuck would that narcissist decide to run his mouth like that?

    It's unbelievable. The Krugman Kult has pretty much convinced St. Krugman, Lord of Economics that he is infallible. It makes you realize how dictatorships form.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    Krugman is savvy in other ways, even if unintentionally so. He's like the Yankees or the Cowboys in that his detractors love to hate him much as his drones love him.

    So everybody pays attention to him because the emotional reaction is so accessible. Nothing would wound the rotund cat-humper's sense of self-worth more than nobody paying attention at all.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Given that he had no inside information regarding the state of the website, why the fuck would that narcissist decide to run his mouth like that?

    Because of his deep belief in the power of government.

    It's a lot like a fundy refusing to accept a tragedy because he's praying to god.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Yeah, that's almost half as stupid as the way he advocated the real estate bubble to remedy the dot com bubble.

    -jcr

  • DenverJay||

    Krugman is the second stupidest person to ever win a Nobel...

  • Procrastinatus||

    Well... if you say it's evil... I guess it's ok to use violence against it.

    /statist

  • cavalier973||

  • cavalier973||

    After leaving my small town upbringing, I learned that libertarians are made for lots of reasons, like reading the bad fiction of Ayn Rand or perhaps the passable writing of Robert Heinlein. In my experience, most seemed to be poor, white and undereducated. They were contortionists, justifying the excesses of the capitalist elite, despite being victims if libertarian politics succeed.
  • Irish||

    In other words, if a libertarian is wealthy, he's only a libertarian because he wants to bathe in the blood of the poor.

    If a libertarian is poor, he's only a libertarian because of false consciousness.

    I wonder why I'm a libertarian? I'm middle class, so it's probably because I one day yearn to make my way into the upper class so that I can piss on the orphans I put to work in my diamond mine.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I find it funny that libertarians are often accused of being dupes of the ruling capitalist elites, but that in reality the ruling "capitalist" elites spend most of their time and money promoting the two major, and majorly statist, political parties.

  • DenverJay||

    wait... are you telling me that people who got rich playing the system have a vested interest in keeping said system unchanged?

  • ||

    They were contortionists, justifying the excesses of the capitalist elite, despite being victims if libertarian politics succeed.

    Taken directly from the Marxist theory of False Consciousness.

    He did not embrace his "inner liberal child" he embraced communism.

  • ||

    like reading the bad fiction of Ayn Rand or perhaps the passable writing of Robert Heinlein.

    Heinlein's writing, though good, wasn't anything remotely consistently libertarian.

    In my experience, most seemed to be poor, white and undereducated.

    Lol, how's this for irony? Don't cross the streams narratives!

  • ||

  • ||

    I am reading Neal Asher's The Departure right now.

    I am kind of pissed that Asher takes the stance that more then 6 billion people on earth is unsustainable.

    Heinlein also bought into the whole population bomb bullshit...but at least he had the excuse of not seeing the results of the green revolution nearly 40 years later.

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    I would not have guessed that about Heinlein. No shortage of bright non-utopians who bought into Erlich in the late 60s, though. We have the significant benefit of a libertarian and innovation/economics heavy culture, though, whereas Heinlein might never have even heard of Julian Simon.

    Found this article by Rothbard while looking for libertarian opinions about Erlich back in the day. The speculation of utopian, pre-Darwinian thinkers about humanity's perfect socialist future and its unfortunate side-effects is literally incredible:

    Under a perfect government, the inconveniences of having a family would be so entirely removed, children would be so well taken care of, and every thing become so favourable to populousness, that … mankind would increase so prodigiously, that the earth would at last be overstocked, and become unable to support its numerous inhabitants.… There would not even be sufficient room for containing their bodies upon the surface of the earth.

    And I thought we lived in nutty times.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

  • cavalier973||

    Crud; I thought I was au courant on this.

  • DK||

    It's much better here - it hasn't been lo-Bo-tomized.

  • Irish||

    Also, why do liberals always think that saying 'I outgrew libertarianism!' proves anything? The most common movement over the course of a lifetime is for people to abandon the left and move rightward. It's so common for people to move to the right as they age, that it essentially counts as a cliche.

    So it appears that the most common political philosophy to 'outgrow' is actually progressivism. Somehow they're too lacking in self awareness to realize this.

  • IDPNDNT||

    I'm going to go on a limb and say that these people were never libertarian to begin with.

    I saw the light and repented stories make for good circlejerks in progressive circles.

    I think it's incredibly funny when people like Maher who have had liberal public images for decades try to come out and say that they've given up on libertarianism because "it's full of wackos."

    The closest Maher was to a libertarian was his support of marijuana legalization.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    They abandon libertarianism because they want free shit. They can't refute it, so they rationalize it as a childish phase in their life. "The world is too complex to employ such a simplistic philosophy...where's my cheese?"

  • Count Negroni||

    Now now... some of them just want to control people.

  • ||

    Now now... some all of them just want to control people.

    FTFY

  • PapayaSF||

    I began to think about real people, like my neighbors and people less lucky than me. Did I want those people to starve to death? I care about children, even poor ones. [...] extreme selfishness is just so isolating and cruel. Libertarianism is unnatural, and the size of the federal government is almost irrelevant. The real question is: what does society need and how do we pay for it?

    So, the guy had a cartoon view of libertarianism even while he was one? And the wonderful success of Obama's first term made him a Democrat (along with what sounds like wifely nagging)? What a maroon.

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    It's why caring about politics is a losing game. It's hugely complicated, the reward for investing in it is misery and despair, and most people aren't nearly as smart or motivated as you. And the bigger, glossier personality always wins elections.

    After 2012, I'm convinced that voters would support Nero if he had a winning smile and could read off a teleprompter. I give.

  • montana mike||

    Sad but true.

  • ||

    You mean the same Obama that said "sometimes it is just better to take a pill" when referring to the rationing of healthcare? That is the Obama that convinced this lying douche nozzle who cares about children, even poor ones, to become a liberal?

    We have to keep in mind that the left never, ever argues in good faith. EVER.

  • John C. Randolph||

    That douchebag was never a libertarian. During the Ron Paul campaign, the movement unfortunately attracted more than a few hypocrites who mouthed the words, but never absorbed the principles.

    -jcr

  • PapayaSF||

    OT: Much of this was new to me. Jeebus, Obama was going to make health insurance plans more affordable by adding a 2% tax to all health insurance plans? So that they'd have money to subsidize the high cost of health insurance plans? Are these people just insane?

    This should be in every Republican and Libertarian campaign ad in 2014. I want to see Democrats squirm to explain this. This may be the most concise example of Progressive statist idiocy I've ever seen.

  • Sevo||

    I linked that last night; the presumption is most co's are hiding it for fear of losing access to the 'make good' money from the web-site bad-data screwups.

  • PapayaSF||

    My H+R viewing has been spotty of late, due to the holidays and freelance work that seems to increasingly arrive on Friday and needs to be done by Monday. (My favorite, a few years ago, was getting something on New Year's Eve that had to be done by New Year's Day.)

  • Sevo||

    It needs repeating for those who did miss it last night. It has gotten zero press beyond conservative sites, to the extent that I thought it was a fake.
    Nope; it's just not admitted in 'polite company'.

  • JagerIV||

    wow, I knew they needed to bring money in somehow (the subsidies need to be paid from somewhere, assuming they're not completely imaginary, which seems increasingly likely: at least they don't exist in anything like the quantities initially implied) but I've never seen the manner the program is paid for so concisely laid out. Thank you for the article, I'll be sure to pass it arround.

  • PapayaSF||

    I thought the medical devices tax was stupid, but the health plan tax just takes the cake. It can't be some sort of bill-writing mistake. Is it some sort of liberal delusion, a fiscal version of perpetual motion? A cynical attempt to simply cycle health insurance money through DC, so they can take a cut and redistribute the rest?

    I never took too seriously the "Obamacare was planned to fail" theory before, but this seems to be evidence....

  • ||

    "This should be in every Republican and Libertarian campaign ad in 2014."

    You will be disappointed. They are too busy obsessing over what is going on in other people's pants or what they might ingest. They really cant help it.

  • DenverJay||

    It should have been used to prevent the re-election of Obama, but for some unfathomable reason, the Republicans thought it was a great idea to take the issue of the table by nominating Romney. The Stupid Party, indeed.

  • PapayaSF||

    Yeah, no argument there.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    "Obama was going to make health insurance plans more affordable by adding a 2% tax to all health insurance plans? So that they'd have money to subsidize the high cost of health insurance plans? "

    Well, this kind of thinking has done wonders with student loans, so why not health care?

  • PapayaSF||

    Unless I am missing something, that's not the same thing. Student loans have interest, like most loans. The people getting them are paying for a service. The equivalent would be more like taxing textbooks, and then using the revenue to subsidize the purchase of textbooks.

  • cavalier973||

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    That was cool.

    Anyone else notice a large majority were in marxist locations? FSU, Poland, Detroit, NY, PA...

  • ||

    I didn't. Now I do.

  • DenverJay||

    Cool thanks
    I like the houses in San Zhi, Taiwan

  • Cytotoxic||

    That first pic gave me a MW1 flashback. I heart claymores.

  • ||

    Belgium has its fair share of creepy spots.

  • cavalier973||

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    The lower court opinion dismissing the suit can be found here. Relatively short opinion, which bodes ill for the case at the appellate level.

    http://pacer.mad.uscourts.gov/.....pdf/gorbey mtd mo.pdf

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

  • cavalier973||

  • ||

    /wipes tear....

    Of joy.

    I'm at the point better to let these people go away. They've done enough damage.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Lefties dominate Hollywood and most of the MSM but they suck at radio. What's up with that?

  • William of Purple||

    You can't stare at their boobs on radio.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Isn't Howard Stern making a pile of cash just by describing nude women on the radio?

    -jcr

  • ||

    Most leftist talking head chicks are fucking ugly. Something about the blackness in their souls shining through.

  • ||

    Because radio is a medium that you can't really bull shit your way through. Eventually people stop listening.

    Hollywood is make-believe so people tolerate it and MSM's message gets corroded my visuals.

    But radio...you have to CONNECT.

    And that's where the left loses. They can't connect and their message doesn't resonate. I can listen to Limbaugh with little problem, but not Chris Matthews.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is while listening to the radio the image of a leftist that comes to most reasonable minds is Pajama Boy.

    Not good.

  • ||

    'by visuals.'

  • Cytotoxic||

    Can't connect to someone you listen to? Rage Against The Machine connects with people. I guess it's make-believe in a different way...I don't know.

  • ||

    Rage also connected to people because they sang about anti-authoritarianism. When they started showing that it was only certain authority they didnt like, they became less entertaining.

  • Count Negroni||

    I had a great moment several months ago, listening to the previous morning host on XM Commie. He was a general blow hard, and not an overly enjoyable person to listen to, but it made for some good rage.

    What got me is when he started talking about the DJIA, and had no idea how it was calculated. Just completely amazed to find out how it works.

    It's fine to not know it, but if you're going to talk about it on your radio show, maybe do a little research. It doesn't take much.

  • ||

    I admit I'm talking more out of my ass but it's just my experience. Trust me, if progtards were entertaining I'd listen.

  • cavalier973||

    I found Ed Schulz to be entertaining in the "how can someone be so stupid?" way.

  • cavalier973||

    Some months back, I was listening to some prog-tard on the radio claiming that Adam Smith's whole point in writing "The Wealth of Nations" was to promote protectionism.

    I'm sure he was astounded when my hand reached through the speakers and slapped him across the face.

  • ||

    Hilarious.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    He was probably more astounded that he couldn't see the hand that slapped him.

  • ||

    I can corroborate this somewhat. My dad used to listen to Rush Limbaugh, and he's always been fairly liberal. It wasn't because he agreed with Rush, he just found the show entertaining.

  • PapayaSF||

    I think most of the people who hate Rush have never actually listened to him. They think he's some brain-dead hater, but the show is a surprisingly well-done mix of conservative politics and comedy. Very hard to pull off, especially for 15 hours a week. If Lenny Bruce were still around, I'm sure he'd appreciate the humor, the taboo-challenging, and the amount of thought that goes into much of it.

  • cavalier973||

    I don't listen to him much, anymore, but the quality of the show is the result of the work Rush puts into it. He reads through six newspapers every morning (as I recall).

    Part of the entertainment derives from the show being a "news of the day" type show, rather than a topical show, so there is generally fresh material each show.

  • PapayaSF||

    True, but fresh material is no guarantee of interesting and/or funny commentary. Coming up with that, pretty consistently, is tough.

  • Sevo||

    PapayaSF|12.28.13 @ 11:03PM|#
    "I think most of the people who hate Rush have never actually listened to him."

    So these are the same people who hate Ayn Rand.

  • ||

    Papaya, there's no doubt part of Rush's calculation is to get the progs all huffy to the point of whining about him. That's the beauty. He knows what will get them talking they're so predictable. Not only that, I've found they do misinterpret and even lie about what he actually says.

    And I agree that the people who hate him most don't even listen. I've taken to listening to him to bypass second hand opinions. The perceptions I was getting has proven to be contrary to what is reality. He's not that bad. All he does is read stuff in the news DIRECTLY from the left and offers opinions.

    Worse, I can't stand Canadians who are completely clueless about him yet just repeat the "faux" and "right-wing" jargon they see coming from the American left. 99% of them don't even listen to Rush.

  • DenverJay||

    I think a majority of the people who listen to lots of radio over the course of the day are blue collar tradesmen, who tend right-ish. Another large group are in logistics (drivers), many independents = Economic conservatives, and while non-independents may be unionized, they might be considered the forgotten Conservative Democrats- left leaning but still living in reality.

  • Count Negroni||

    Proletariat Radio sweeps up the progressives pretty well, too. Political radio that tries to appeal to the same people is a pretty tough spot, with a thin audience, I'd imagine.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    The Progs don't realize they've instituted a tax-funded competitor with NPR and all the college stations. They don't compete against wingnut radio, they compete against their subsidized, commercial interruption-free selves. They don't understand markets.

    You also see that with likes of MSNBC. They think they're competing with FOX given around a fifth or so of their network programming is critiquing FOX programming. In fact though, they're competing with Bill Maher, and the Daily Show - but minus the funny quips, good editing, celebrity guests, and commercials targeted at people under 70.

  • Ted S.||

    I hate when sites use overlays that you can't easily close if you don't have images set to load.

  • ||

    In all honesty left wing talk radio was killed off at birth by NPR.

    I am not surprised at all that the left are not only sanguine about it but also completely ignorant about why.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    OK, let me try this one more time

    http://pacer.mad.uscourts.gov/.....pdf/gorbey mtd mo.pdf

    And if it does not work this time, the link to the opinion can be found here:

    http://www.professorbainbridge.....pping.html

  • Irish||

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    I recall reading about the group protesting the court when they were hearing the Schuette case, which involved affirmative action in Michigan.

  • PapayaSF||

    That's just hilariously blatant.

  • ||

  • C. Anacreon||

    That's just amazing. Someone had a very successful press release that half the nation's TV newswriters put into the teleprompter unedited....

  • PapayaSF||

    It's like something from They Live.

  • Irish||

    U.S. intelligence agencies claim that Afghanistan will go straight to hell if U.S. troops leave.

    You mean agencies that stand to have their budgets expanded if the War on Terrorism continues are opposed to drawing down the American troop presence?

    No way!

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    Will go?

    How can you go somewhere you have been for decades?

  • ||

    Decades? Sure, if you count them by the hundreds.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    Can Ghosts Increase the Value Your Home?

    "Most students who take a property law class study the famous New York case of Stambovsky v. Ackley, where a New York court ruled that sellers of a house must disclose to potential buyers the fact that the house was reputedly haunted. The court concluded that the house was “haunted as a matter of law” and that the haunting qualifies as a latent defect, because it is a condition that might reduce the value of the house. Courts in some other states have ruled differently, holding that sellers only have a duty to reveal physical, structural, or legal defects, not poltergeists. However, as Josh Blackman notes, one Pennsylvania seller recently noted the haunting in his house ad, with the result that he actually ended getting more interest than expected"

    http://www.volokh.com/2013/12/.....lue-house/

  • cavalier973||

    There's no such thing as ghosts.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    What do you do if you find yourself haunted by the ghost of Ayn Rand? Explain to her that ghosts are an irrational superstition and she'll disappear in a poof of logic.

  • Cytotoxic||

    No she'll just be very...sour if you say that. Don't say that.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

  • DenverJay||

    When I first realized that I was libertarian, and came out to my family and friends, I thought it was mandatory to pore through those dense tomes of hers, reading the same speeches repeated over and over every other page. I wished someone had told me that it was not required to graduate Confirmation.

  • UCrawford||

    Yup. You can learn everything you need to know about "Atlas Shrugged" from the last 20 pages. That's how irrelevant the actual story is to what she's saying. And it reads like a book with an irrelevant story.

    I much preferred The Fountainhead. We The Living was okay...most of her other books were terrible.

  • RishJoMo||

    Sounds like some pretty serious business. I think I like it.

    BeinAnon.tk

  • cavalier973||

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "2013 is the year that proved your 'paranoid' friend right" about electronic spying

    Http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....end-right/

  • ||

    Victor Davis Hanson has a good one over at NRO:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/.....n/page/0/1

  • Michael Ejercito||

    Is there a statute that holds the authors of journal articles responsible if their work is used to defeat a birth-injury lawsuit? Without such a statute, the suit should fail.

  • PD Holla||

    Thomas the Tank Engine is setting a poor example to children and needs more female engines to encourage girls to become train drivers, Labour's shadow transport secretary has said. Mary Creagh described the lack of female train drivers in Britain as a "national scandal" and said that children's television shows and "negative stereotypes" are partly to blame.

    Mrs Creagh also said that mechanical comprehension tests taken by prospective train drivers could discriminate against women.
  • Irish||

    You have an unemployment rate of 7.5% and the gender makeup of train drivers is your national scandal?

  • John C. Randolph||

    That's 7.5% that they admit to. The Brits practice the clever ruse of only counting people as unemployed if they actually want a job and can't find one. They don't count all the permanent dependents on the dole.

    -jcr

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    She also went on to denounce all those old films where a love scene was interrupted by a video of a train entering a tunnel.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Reminds me of the original ending of Hithcock's North by Northwest.

  • ||

    What a movie.

  • C. Anacreon||

    Truly my favorite movie ever. I'm not exaggerating to say I've watched it over a hundred times.

    Not a bad attempt at an April Fool's joke regarding the "original ending". Eva Marie Saint in 1959 was certainly worth riding into a train tunnel.

  • Rhywun||

    One of my faves too and not only did I buy the article hook line and sinker but I laughed my ass off when I played the clip and "got it". Well done.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Hitch was a dirty old man for sure.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    Hitch was a dirty old man. But he had great taste.

    Grace Kelly in Rear Window was just...yum.

  • C. Anacreon||

    Grace Kelly in Rear Window was just...yum.

    You've got that right. Add that to the personality she put into the character she played in RW, and it made you just want to propose to her on the spot. It's no wonder she could dazzle royalty.

  • PapayaSF||

    I wonder how much of what he said about the book Hitchcock/Truffaut is true? First editions do seem oddly valuable online ($120+), compared to the later "revised" edition.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    I don't get it.

  • Count Negroni||

    Someone needs to see if they can make a lack of male train drivers, too. Perhaps by automating the trains.

    Does she think there will be huge demand for train drivers in 16 - 20 years?

  • ||

    England really isn't aging well.

  • OldMexican||

    Mary Creagh described the lack of female train drivers in Britain as a "national scandal" and said that children's television shows and "negative stereotypes" are partly to blame.


    They're two, they're four, they're six and eight,
    Shunting trucks and hauling freight,
    red and green and brown and blue,
    they're the really biased crew!
    All with different roles to play,
    Keeping down the females all day!
    Down the hills and round the bends
    Thomas and his chauvinist friends!
    Thomas he's the cheeky one;
    James is vain but lots of fun;
    Percy pulls the mail on time;
    Gordon thunders down the line;
    Emily really knows her stuff
    But the rest keep her down,
    Because they all a bunch of pigs!

  • Cytotoxic||

    I AM STILL GETTING BULLSHIT 'DOWNLOAD JAVA' MALWARE PAGES FROM REASON CLEAN UP YOUR SITE ALREADY

  • Count Negroni||

    I haven't gotten that (in Chrome) but I have gotten things sending me to the app store in my iPad. Completely obnoxious.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Same on iphone.

  • ||

    Sometimes comments just don't post when I hit submit on the iPhone. I get taken to a blank page instead.

  • PapayaSF||

    I had that problem on my Mac laptop until I removed the email link from my handle. That fixed it.

    On my iPhone, though, I can't post at all. Submit and Preview buttons appear, but no text box. On iOS 6, at least.

  • Generic Stranger||

    NoScript + AdBlock = None of that shit.

  • Irish||

    The New Republic: THE MARKET SUCKS BECAUSE AMAZON MISSED SOME DELIVERIES DURING CHRISTMASTIME!

    Bret Stephens wrote an entire column in the Wall Street Journal listing all the ways that the kludgy healthcare.gov launch had failed to live up to Amazonian standards

    (Snip)

    He added: “Imagine what a disaster it would be for sales if, during the holiday shopping season, Amazon’s website were down for about a day and a half.”

    Yes, just imagine the disaster: the presents might not make it to people’s homes on time!

    Oh, wait, what’s this I see in today’s papers?

    A surge in online shopping this holiday season left stores breaking promises to deliver packages by Christmas, suggesting that retailers and shipping companies still haven't fully figured out consumers' buying patterns in the Internet era. Companies from Amazon.com Inc. to Kohl's Corp. and Wal-Mart Stores Inc., having promised to deliver items before Dec. 25, missed some delivery target dates.

    Notice the hilarious sleight of hand here? The WSJ writer pointed out how devastating it would be if Amazon's website crashed for a day and a half, to which the TNR writer responded by pointing out that they missed some deliveries during an absolute peak in sales.

    That's totally the same thing as a website not working for two months.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Still, I was awfully pissed that the government made me buy from Amazon and ship with UPS at an inflated price so I could subsidize the poor and it still didn't arrive on time!

    Oh, wait...

  • ||

    These people really need to go out and get real jobs to understand just how ridiculous they sound.

  • ||

    having promised to deliver items before Dec. 25, missed some delivery target dates.

    How well did the government online bookstore do?

    Oh wait.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    Companies from Amazon.com Inc. to Kohl's Corp. and Wal-Mart Stores Inc., having promised to deliver items before Dec. 25, missed some delivery target dates.

    Micky-D's forgets my fries in the drive through sometimes. We should socialize food.

  • PapayaSF||

    All while much of the country is buried in snow. What a coincidence.

  • William of Purple||

    A survey of more than 1,000 men in India has concluded that condoms made according to international sizes are too large for a majority of Indian men.

  • OldMexican||

    That gave me a completely new mental image to accompany the word "weenie."

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    The study found that more than half of the men measured had penises that were shorter than international standards for condoms.

    50% of the people in the world are of below average intelligence.

  • William of Purple||

    no, 50% are below the median intelligence.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Um...er...but...

    Oh, fuck you!

  • shut the fuck up mary||

    His statement could also be true, so your "no" there is wrong and cunty.

  • ||

    So in the last episode of masters of Sex in Dr Masters presentation he said dick size erect was fairly static and the big difference was between flaccid dicks.

    He found dicks very in size greatly when measuring flaccid dicks but erect dicks all looked to be about the same size.

    Maybe the Indian men are all trying to put it on before the fire works?

  • PapayaSF||

    dick size erect was fairly static

    Pornography disagrees.

  • ||

    Pretty sure porn directors higher outside the bell curve.

  • PapayaSF||

    True, but based on porn and what girlfriends have told me, "fairly static" is a rather questionable conclusion.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    A survey of more than 1,000 men in India has concluded that condoms made according to international sizes are too large for a majority of Indian men.

    Hence no condoms, hence eleventy billion Indians.

  • cavalier973||

    So, I finished this book the other day, something about Conspiracy Theories in American culture, written by some guy named Walker. Pretty good stuff. I was concurrently reading "Voodoo History" by some Brit, which deals with a similar theme, but from a more leftist perspective. By virtue of the fact that I actually finished Walker's book, but have no interest in finishing the other, I'd have to say that Walker's book is the better one.

  • cavalier973||

    OT:

    The Fellowship met at Rivendell to discuss the cursed One Ring.

    Elrond, "It must be taken to Mt. Doom and destroyed, but unfortunately, you are all first level and have no hope. You will have to first delve dungeon after dungeon, accumulating gold, because as we all know, hoarding treasure somehow makes us more powerful."

    "Yes," said Gandalf, "This is known to be true."

    And so the Fellowship of the Bling was formed with one goal--Grab the loot so someday, maybe they could think about making a plan to destroy the one ring. Many, many years from now.

    And so the Fellowship of the Bling descends the stone steps into a dark and damp corridor. Gandalf holds his lantern aloft, and they soon come upon a door and a south easterly bend in the passage.

    Aragorn and Legolas listen at the door but hear nothing. The Fellowship takes position and Gimli opens the door...Inside is a debris strewn chamber swarming with giant rats. Gimli slams the door shut.

    "I'll not risk the diseased, yellow teeth of those rats so that we can pick through rubble and debris," says Gimli. The Fellowship begins to take the bend in the passage when the starving giant rats in the closed room start pouring through a hole in the floor!

  • Warrren||

    Funny, but Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli, Boromir, and Legolas already were high-level characters by the time of the books if you're using D&D reckoning.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    So I guess I've been asleep when it comes to some of the Obamacare extras, like government funded startup "non-profit" insurance companies. $2B in loans to create "competition". But of course, it's not enough:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

    Or from Kaiser's health news:

    They have rented offices and zero customers. All their capital is borrowed. They’re trying to sign the kind of expensive, chronically ill individuals that insurers have avoided for decades.
    Critical for co-ops is getting low hospital prices. As startups, they can’t promise hospitals high patient volume in return for discounts the way competitors can. Many co-ops are “renting” provider networks assembled by competitors, which limits the ability to negotiate.

    Maybe their model is just flawed.

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    Nah, they just haven't told the right story to the American people that gives them a sense of unity and purpose and optimism, especially during tough times. That will solve all the policy and economic problems we have. Just need to get people to buy in and become the New Sov--er, American Men the nation needs.

    I bet Tom Sowell laughs his ass off for an hour every night before falling asleep.

  • Fluffy||

    A procedural question:

    If you're in Denver the day that co-op in the Post article is trying to sign people up, and you follow the blonde around for her entire shift, pestering her for her phone number -

    Arrested, or not arrested?

  • in4mation||

    My son had this injury when he was born and the midwife applied no force at all in his delivery. The cause what that he had his fist tucked under his chin in delivery which made it hard to tuck his chin. His shoulder got yanked over causing the injury (I assume).

    Will I get sued for saying that?

  • RishJoMo||

    Sometimes man you jsut have to roll with the punches.

    www.BeinAnon.tk

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    You know what would make Reason good journalists? Publishing the name of the fucking cocksucker.

  • SueNichollsera||


    my roomate's half-sister makes 74 dollars an hour on the laptop. She has been without a job for 7 months but last month her check was 19922 dollars just working on the laptop for a few hours. published here

    http://www.tec30.com

  • alaamiah||

    Thank you very much

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