The Other Prostitution Scandal

Why was Eliot Spitzer's lifestyle illegal, anyway?

Steve Chapman | March 13, 2008

Politicians take people's money with a promise to fulfill desires that supposedly can't be attained any other way. Prostitutes do the same, though by reputation, they are more reliable in delivering. It's not surprising for people in the same line of work to gravitate toward one another, as Eliot Spitzer and a woman named Kristen reportedly did in a Washington hotel room.

I understand why Spitzer's alleged hiring of a call girl was stupid, selfish, reckless, immoral and a betrayal of his family. What I don't understand is why it was illegal.

It's not as though sex is otherwise divorced from money. If it were, hot young women would be found on the arms of poor older men as often as they are seen with rich ones. Had the New York governor wanted to buy a $4,300 bauble to seduce someone of Kristen's age and pulchritude, only his wife and his financial adviser would have objected.

It was Spitzer's effort to hide this pastime that attracted law enforcement attention. Prosecutors investigated him not because he had lipstick on his collar, but because he took steps to conceal his patronage of Emperor's Club VIP. By transferring cash to accounts controlled by fake companies, he roused suspicions of political corruption. By now, he probably wishes he had only taken a gratuity to grease a contract.

It's hard to feel excessive sympathy when a colossal hypocrite is exposed. Recently, Spitzer signed a measure increasing penalties for men caught paying for sex, who can now go to jail for as long as a year. But schadenfreude is a weak justification for laws that intrude into the bedroom.

As with laws against illicit drugs and unsanctioned gambling, this policy tries to suppress powerful human appetites and consistently fails. What one New Orleans mayor said applies to a segment of every human society: "You can make prostitution illegal in Louisiana, but you can't make it unpopular."

Alternative newspapers, telephone directories and online sites are replete with ads for massage parlors, escort services and women "eager to meet you!"—proof that when individuals yearn to find each other for mutually gratifying transactions, they are bound to find a way.

Even the prospect of arrest and public humiliation doesn't deter a lot of people on either side of the business. What should be obvious by now is that they are willing to spend far more effort achieving these encounters than the rest of us are to spend preventing them.

Outlawing this commerce serves mainly to make things worse, not better. It assures income to criminal organizations with long experience evading the law. It makes prostitutes vulnerable to abuse. It prevents measures to protect the health of providers and patrons.

It exempts an industry from the taxes and fees that legitimate businesses have to pay. It squanders police resources that could be used to fight real crime, while clogging jails and courts with offenders who will soon be back plying their trade.

Supporters of the status quo say the sex industry is filled with victims of human trafficking—foreigners forced to work in servitude. Whether such modern-day slaves amount to more than a tiny fraction of hookers, however, has never been proved.

Similar claims have been made about migrant farm laborers and domestic workers—which is not taken as grounds to ban fruit picking or home cleaning. Someone whose very job is illegal, in fact, is an ideal candidate for such exploitation, since she is unlikely to go to the cops.

But all this is secondary to the priority of human freedom. We no longer believe the government has a right to prevent homosexuals or heterosexuals from engaging in sexual practices. In 2003, the Supreme Court had the wisdom to strike down a Texas sodomy prosecution against two homosexuals caught in the act.

"The petitioners are entitled to respect for their private lives," asserted the court. "The state cannot demean their existence or control their destiny by making their private sexual conduct a crime. Their right to liberty under the Due Process Clause gives them the full right to engage in their conduct without intervention of the government."

Some brilliant lawyer ought to ask the courts why the state may ban one type of sex between consenting adults but not another. Maybe Eliot Spitzer would like to take it on.

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Other Matt|3.13.08 @ 7:17AM|#

Historically, prostitution has been, pun intended, in and out. Of favor, that is. We're just on the out at the moment, it'll come back.

|3.13.08 @ 7:39AM|#

of course, you know that spitzer will go entirely the other way, probably showing up as a spokesman for increasing the legal penalties.

Other Matt|3.13.08 @ 7:47AM|#

of course, you know that spitzer will go entirely the other way, probably showing up as a spokesman for increasing the legal penalties.

After, of course, he's found "JAAEZZzzzzus" or something.

|3.13.08 @ 8:02AM|#

Personally I'd like to see as many high profile people as possible jailed for private conduct.Members of congress and their staff state pols. ect.It seems the only way we rid ourselves of unfair laws is when they effect the class that makes them.Drug test all of congress and staff and fire and jail the users.I bet up 30-40% use some form of drug.

|3.13.08 @ 8:34AM|#

I think we know why money laundering is illegal...

Oh, wait, we're back on the sex again? My bad.

|3.13.08 @ 8:38AM|#

Wondering why it's illegal?
Very simple, really -- power mad busybodies like Spitzer want to meddle with how other people live their lives.
Plain and simple. And entirely iredeemably evil.
Thus the entirely warranted schadenfreude at seeing the prick held up to the policies he was so intent on inflicting on others.

May it happen to all so inclined.

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott

Episiarch|3.13.08 @ 8:54AM|#

We all know the reasons why it's stupid that prostitution is illegal, so why are you wasting time spelling the same shit out again?

On a different note, they found "Kristen"'s MySpace page. I will note that she is not particularly hot, meaning my prediction of "is she $5,000 hot? No, nobody is" was correct. Thank you.

|3.13.08 @ 8:58AM|#

Ah, the delightful scent of sanctimonius rump roasting.

Skewered by the insidious and invasive legalities he championed.

In fairness the transaction was nothing more than a buy/sell deal, with a middleman taking a cut.

But geez louise, 5k a pop!

BakedPenguin|3.13.08 @ 9:05AM|#

Episiarch - IIRC, Chapman has a newspaper column. Meaning that it's not just the choir that will hear this sermon.

Also, not everyone who comes to reason.com has been coming here for years, already read Nozick, Hayek, etc...

|3.13.08 @ 9:06AM|#

Female chimpanzees sell sex for fruit.

Hmmm. This practice may be harder to stamp out than bible thumpers think.

Episiarch|3.13.08 @ 9:06AM|#

I would like to add that the thought of Spitzer sitting in his house right now sipping a scotch while contemplating the fact that the media is a pack of hyenas and his political career is the wildebeest carcass is enormously satisfying to me.

From "fucking steamroller" to "fucking laughingstock paying $4000 for mediocre pussy" in one day.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

|3.13.08 @ 9:07AM|#

Episiarch
Hot is in the pants of the beholder

|3.13.08 @ 9:09AM|#

J sub D
Hence the phrase..."Is that a banana in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"

Eliot Spitzer|3.13.08 @ 9:15AM|#

I've been fucking steamrolled.

|3.13.08 @ 9:23AM|#

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. What kills me about the prohibitionists is that to the extent there is human trafficking, it is because of prohibition. If brothels had to register with the government and pay taxes, they wouldn't be able to have stables of desperate illegal women from China or wherever. It is really not that hard. Set it up in designated districts so you don't have street walkers ruining the quality of life in neighborhoods and regulate the hell out of it so you get tax revenue and the girls who work there are legal and healthy. In the day and age of AIDS, only a lunatic is going to go to an unlicensed hooker when licensed healthy ones are available.

In an ideal world, prostitution wouldn't exist. But we don't live in an ideal world. The best of bad options is to legalize it. Prohibition just leaves the women stuck doing it to the mercies of their pimps and deranged clients. But people would rather live in a fantasy world were making something illegal makes it go away and were you never have to take the least bad of a series of bad options.

Fluffy|3.13.08 @ 9:25AM|#

As I read more about the steps Spitzer took to evade detection, I am more and more pleased at the outcome.

It seems pretty obvious that this arrogant SOB thought he knew what tools were in place to spy on Americans, and thought that this "inside knowledge" would enable him to escape the maw of the beast he helped to raise.

But his precautions just weren't good enough. Picture in your mind and savor the moment when he was informed about this. Picture the look on his face as he realized he had caught his sleeve in the Kafkaesque device of US money laundering law - when a moment before he had thought himself immune. It's just too good.

robc|3.13.08 @ 9:28AM|#

Episiarch,

not paricularly hot

The quality of her photos varies, but Im not going to call her "not hot". She isnt $5k per hour hot, but apparently that wasnt her rate either. She isnt $1k per hour hot. But she qualifies as hot, IMO.

Smoking gun pics, which include her myspace pics

|3.13.08 @ 9:28AM|#

"Picture the look on his face as he realized he had caught his sleeve in the Kafkaesque device of US money laundering law - when a moment before he had thought himself immune. It's just too good."

Yeah it really is. You know good and well that this is the very kind of sleazy investigation that he would have done when he was New York AG to go after some corporate CEO who had not sufficiently kissed Spitzer's ass. Things like this tell you that God really does have a sense of humor.

|3.13.08 @ 9:31AM|#

RobC,

I think she is very hot. Is she 5K an hour hot? Depends on how much money you have. To a working stiff who would have to pay a half a month's salary for an hour, no way. To a multi-millionaire with no morals and who would think nothing of burning through 5K in a hand of black jack, she would probably be 5K hot.

Episiarch|3.13.08 @ 9:34AM|#

After seeing the Smoking Gun pictures I will re-rate her as "not bad at all". Still, she would never make it as a model (and not just because she's short), and I would say that for $4300 you should at least get someone who reaches that level.

But that's just me.

kinnath|3.13.08 @ 9:36AM|#

Anyone think that this aspiring young singer will form a new band with a name that includes "kristen"?

kinnah|3.13.08 @ 9:37AM|#

To clarify, the $4300 included a deposit against future services rendered. The actual date with kristen was around 2k or so.

|3.13.08 @ 9:39AM|#

Episiarch,

She might make it as a model if she had a nosejob and starved herself to death; not a runway model but a commercial model. She does have really great skin and hair and a great figure. The bottomline is that she is a teenage runaway who ended up as a hooker. Hot or not it is pretty sad.

Other Matt|3.13.08 @ 9:42AM|#

Anyone think that this aspiring young singer will form a new band with a name that includes "kristen"?

I put my money on "Client 9"

robc|3.13.08 @ 9:44AM|#

Kristen is hotter than Donna Rice. However, Hart didnt have to pay (beyond the normal payments).

|3.13.08 @ 9:44AM|#

Here is what I don't get. The amount of sex available to a man in Sptizer's position is astronomical. If he wanted to run around on his wife, all he had to do was hire the right assistant. It happens all the time on Capital Hill. Yeah, she could always run to the media and blow his cover, but it would end her career and what would be the big deal? It is not like Spitzer couldn't afford a big divorce settlement. It is not like running around on your wife ends your political career, see Rudy Guillinani for just one example. Why on earth would anyone in his position be paying thousands of dollars and running afoul with the money laudering laws for sex? It makes no sense.

robc|3.13.08 @ 9:45AM|#

Other Matt,

There will be a NYC band named Client 9 eventually, whether is includes her or not.

Episiarch|3.13.08 @ 9:45AM|#

robc|3.13.08 @ 9:47AM|#

John,

Having an affair requires having a relationship with the person. I would guess that Spitzer wasnt interested in putting the time into that.

Other Matt|3.13.08 @ 9:48AM|#

No, John, her eyes are what would sink her. Her nose is fine (the bridge is straight). But the eyes are too deepset and a little too close together, and there's nothing you can do about that surgery-wise.

Ep-On the one hand, my reaction is you're being WAAAYYyyy too picky. On the other hand, she has a look about her that reminds me of this woman I was with once who was a complete psycho, and not in a good way. I suspect I'd be hard pressed to perform if she showed up at the door simply because of that. It's in the eyes, though, so the pics with the sunglasses on the boat are quite nice and don't give me that reaction, so maybe you're on to something.

What I think is hilarious is her brother saying she was "just trying to get through it." The woman is a couple grand an hour hooker, I would think publicity would be welcome.

robc|3.13.08 @ 9:49AM|#

Other Matt,

I like the comment from her mom about her being able to handle a governor. Moms are funny.

Episiarch|3.13.08 @ 9:51AM|#

Ep-On the one hand, my reaction is you're being WAAAYYyyy too picky.

I am just being technical. I've been involved with models and you'd be amazed at the pickiness of the modeling agencies.

It's kind of surreal having a very beautiful woman telling you that she was turned down for a job because she was only 5 feet 9.5 inches tall or that her eyes are too close together.

|3.13.08 @ 9:59AM|#

"I am just being technical. I've been involved with models and you'd be amazed at the pickiness of the modeling agencies."

Yes they are. What is amazing is that if you ever watch any news show or documentary about modeling agencies, the women who run them are almost always butt ugly; not even on a $1000 dare ugly. It must be an amazing sense of power and revenge for them to sit and tell all these gorgous young women that they are not pretty enough or too fat.

Other Matt|3.13.08 @ 10:07AM|#

It's kind of surreal having a very beautiful woman telling you that she was turned down for a job because she was only 5 feet 9.5 inches tall or that her eyes are too close together.

I believe it. It's a different world than I'm used to, but I know it's out there. Just strikes me as strange.

wang|3.13.08 @ 10:12AM|#

Prostitution is like the political , it's a good figurative.

|3.13.08 @ 10:23AM|#

Why on earth would anyone in his position be paying thousands of dollars and running afoul with the money laudering laws for sex? It makes no sense.

The illicit nature of it was probably a big part of the rush. Sort of an extreme variation on the thrill of having sex in public places.

BTW, why assume that he didn't have an affair at some point? He obviously wasn't all that concerned about fidelity.

|3.13.08 @ 10:26AM|#

"BTW, why assume that he didn't have an affair at some point? He obviously wasn't all that concerned about fidelity."

Maybe he did. He must be some kind of sex addict. Only an addict would pay 1000s for something they could get for free.

Kristen|3.13.08 @ 10:29AM|#

How dare you guys talk about me like I'm piece of meat!

|3.13.08 @ 10:32AM|#

Maybe he did. He must be some kind of sex addict. Only an addict would pay 1000s for something they could get for free.

Again, I don't think the "somethings" in question were equivalents. I'm pretty sure he was, in effect, paying the big bucks to enjoy the risk of getting caught.

|3.13.08 @ 10:33AM|#

John,men always pay for sex.Remember,women have half the money and all the pu**y.

|3.13.08 @ 10:37AM|#

"Again, I don't think the "somethings" in question were equivalents. I'm pretty sure he was, in effect, paying the big bucks to enjoy the risk of getting caught."

That is actually a symptom of sex addiction. People who are sex addicts would rather get a blowjob from a $5 hooker in their car at the risk of being caught than have sex with their wives. Some call that sex addiction. But whatever you call it, some people have a compulsion to have irresponsible risky sex.

Episiarch|3.13.08 @ 10:40AM|#

I have always assumed that you pay the big money to get stuff you can't get from your wife along with confidentiality. It could be as simple as assfucking all the way to dressing up in diapers and acting like a baby.

I just can't see paying that much for some missionary position, but who knows.

|3.13.08 @ 10:42AM|#

Epi,

The agency did describe Spitzer as "a difficult client" and the hooker did say that he did some things that "some people wouldn't consider safe". So you are probably right. He probably has some kind of perversion that your ordinary wife or mistress won't indulge.

|3.13.08 @ 10:44AM|#

Why is prostitution illegal? Well, according to Ann Coulter, see, sometimes these women turn to druuugs, and drugs are baaaad, mmkay?

I suppose by that reasoning, anything that might lead someone to take (illegal) drugs (cuz legal drugs are AOK) should also be illegal. Like, say, reading an Ann Coulter column?

Other Matt|3.13.08 @ 10:44AM|#

BTW, why assume that he didn't have an affair at some point? He obviously wasn't all that concerned about fidelity.

I remember back in the late 70's, when on a USN ship in the Med, this first class petty officer carrying on for a good 15 min about how having a hooker wasn't cheating on his wife. He followed it with another 15 min diatribe about how getting a blowjob wasn't either. His name wasn't Clinton, but to be sure he believed it much more than Bill.

Episiarch|3.13.08 @ 10:45AM|#

Well, supposedly what was "dangerous" was he wanted to fuck without a condom, though from the transcripts it seems the girl shot him down on that one (making it even more crazy that he paid that much).

I doubt anal or oral would merit a "dangerous", so it's either bareback or something much more juicy.

I guess we're going to have to wait until her book comes out.

|3.13.08 @ 10:47AM|#

If your whole thing is having sex without a condome, why would you go to a hooker and risk getting a disease? That is even more crazy.

T|3.13.08 @ 10:52AM|#

He followed it with another 15 min diatribe about how getting a blowjob wasn't either. His name wasn't Clinton, but to be sure he believed it much more than Bill.

Yeah, the first time I heard that particular bullshit was when Chuck Robb got caught with Tai Collins. It's always amazing to me the mental hoops people are willing to jump through to justify their behavior.

Fluffy|3.13.08 @ 10:57AM|#

He probably has also been unfaithful in the ordinary way as well.

Remember, his wife did not want him to resign. I'm starting to think that the beaten look she has on her face at the press conferences is coming from the fact that he decided to resign instead of listen to her and fight it out.

For all we know, he cheats on her all the time and she didn't give a shit because she wanted to be Mrs. Governor of NY and potentially first lady someday.

dhex|3.13.08 @ 11:07AM|#

i was hoping it was spitzer paying women to dress up like rudy giuliani.

i still am. god help me, i still am.

i feel badly for this young woman and what will happen to her in the future. she was just hustling like everyone else.

Episiarch|3.13.08 @ 11:14AM|#

i feel badly for this young woman and what will happen to her in the future.

You mean becoming rich and famous? Remember Divine Brown?

She's young, good looking, and unlike Brown, was high class (when you get $4300/hour, you are essentially "best of the best"). She was part of taking down not a goofy actor, but a possible future president. She will write a book or sell her story and make a ton. She will be a celebrity for a while and will then disappear, most likely.

Not too shabby.

|3.13.08 @ 11:18AM|#

Maybe he did. He must be some kind of sex addict.

There is no such thing as a sex addict. No, I won't discuss it. I'm merely asserting a fact.

|3.13.08 @ 11:20AM|#

How dare you guys talk about me like I'm piece of meat!

Kristen, If it makes you feel better, you a definitelty a doable piece of meat.

|3.13.08 @ 11:21AM|#

i feel badly for this young woman and what will happen to her in the future. she was just hustling like everyone else.

Are you kidding? She knew the risks, and granted, she probably didn't want to become famous as a whore, preferring her musical career to launch her to stardom, but she has just parlayed a couple hours of meaningless sex into a million bucks. I'll bet Hugh Hefner has already called. If she doesn't have an agent she will this afternoon.

|3.13.08 @ 11:22AM|#

I find that politicians are the worst kinds of prostitute.

Your regular ole plain jane prostitute my rent her vagina. But your average politician will sell her morality for a vote.

I just can't see paying that much for some missionary position, but who knows.

What if his wife wouldn't do the missionary position?

|3.13.08 @ 11:23AM|#

Ah, Epi and I are of similar minds yet again.

|3.13.08 @ 11:25AM|#

What if his wife wouldn't do the missionary position?

Let's roll with this J sub D. Maybe Silda is the kinky one, and Eliot turned to Kristen for some good old fashioned screwing.

|3.13.08 @ 11:26AM|#

Of course the girl is pretty, she's 22 and has a nice pair. But could she be any trashier?

|3.13.08 @ 11:27AM|#

I'm surprised that on all of these threads this hasn't come up.

♫Well, I'm a steamroller, baby
I'm bound to roll all over you
Yes, I'm a steamroller now, baby
I'm bound to roll all over you
I'm gonna inject your soul with some sweet rock 'n roll
And shoot you full of rhythm and blues♫

It has been running through my head for a couple of days.

Episiarch|3.13.08 @ 11:29AM|#

But could she be any trashier?

That's the allure, dude. You want your cum dumpsters slutty, or else what's the point?

|3.13.08 @ 11:30AM|#

I remember back in the late 70's, when on a USN ship in the Med, this first class petty officer carrying on for a good 15 min about how having a hooker wasn't cheating on his wife.

I'm going to guess that his wife didn't see it that way. ;)

i was hoping it was spitzer paying women to dress up like rudy giuliani.

i still am. god help me, i still am.

In the novelization, it could be. Get to work.

preferring her musical career to launch her to stardom

Based on that gawdawful song she posted to MySpace? Not gonna happen. She doesn't have a bad voice, but she could probably use better collaborators and a lyricist. Besides, sixstring, the music industry is going down the shitcan, while the "celebrity industry" seems to be bustling these days. She could sell her story and pics for enough money to finance many years worth of tepid R&B recordings.

|3.13.08 @ 11:34AM|#

sixstring, I picture Mrs. Spitzer as a dominatrix and Eliot as a milquetoast in bed. He hires the comfort girl so he can be on top and in control for a change.

Joking about the wife may be out of bounds, so I'll post this for penance.

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen.

|3.13.08 @ 11:37AM|#

J sub D,

I think any wife who shows up for the cameras when the news is good is also fair game when the news ain't so good. However we shall take your Hail Mary and assign 5 indulgences for the effort.

|3.13.08 @ 11:39AM|#

Shut up you swine! It's Mistress Silda, *smack* and you have been a very bad little piggy! *smack, smack*

David Gillies|3.13.08 @ 11:58AM|#

Although I agree that prostitution should be legalised, and that the Banking Secrecy Act is a horror-show, I can't feel too bad about it in this particular instance. In much the same way that Al Capone was brought down for tax evasion instead of being a murdering hoodlum, Spitzer has been brought down by a pettifogging banking law and a bluenosed interpretation of what consenting adults are allowed to do with their genitalia. If he were to be indicted and convicted for his true crimes, namely shaking down companies, destroying shareholder value and ruining lives under the disgusting Martin Act, then the only appropriate sentence would be a public hanging on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.

|3.13.08 @ 11:59AM|#

Eliot Sitzer: I know this may sound kinky Kristen, but I want you to put these curlers in your hair, and just lay there looking bored.

Kristen: That's gonna cost extra, #9.

|3.13.08 @ 12:09PM|#

From Dave's Top Ten Surprises During Eliot Spitzer's Resignation

#1 - When reporters asked how much he paid per hour, his wife said, "Believe me, he doesn't need an hour"

|3.13.08 @ 12:13PM|#

How long before Kristen is in Playboy? Before the end of the summer I say.

Episiarch|3.13.08 @ 12:19PM|#

Ironically, this thread is at 69, which I will now change by posting about it.

How long before Kristen is in Playboy? Before the end of the summer I say.

More like before the end of the week.

|3.13.08 @ 12:26PM|#

I can't feel too bad about it in this particular instance. In much the same way that Al Capone was brought down for tax evasion instead of being a murdering hoodlum, Spitzer has been brought down by a pettifogging banking law and a bluenosed interpretation of what consenting adults are allowed to do with their genitalia.

I think a lot of us feel that way. Now if we could just get some faked-up lab results to nab those skeezebag officials down in Mississippi on false charges, the world would be a much shinier, happier place.

On various sites, I've seen a whole bunch of nasty comments about Ms. Dupre and her supposed immorality, and I just don't feel that way. I'm kinda rooting for her to make hay out of all this. She's apparently been through some difficult times, and it would be highly just if she turns things around by stepping on Spitzer's political carcass.

|3.13.08 @ 12:41PM|#

"On various sites, I've seen a whole bunch of nasty comments about Ms. Dupre and her supposed immorality, and I just don't feel that way. I'm kinda rooting for her to make hay out of all this. She's apparently been through some difficult times, and it would be highly just if she turns things around by stepping on Spitzer's political carcass"

I feel bad for her. She doesn't know her father. She ran away from home when she was 17. Lived with a string of dirtbag men who took advantage of her. I hope she makes millions.

Abdul|3.13.08 @ 1:24PM|#

Lived with a string of dirtbag men who took advantage of her.

If by "taking advantage," you mean "shared prime Manhattan real estate with"

Paul|3.13.08 @ 1:25PM|#

Because people like Eliot Spitzer want it that way.

Irony? You decide...

The Wine Commonsewer|3.13.08 @ 1:31PM|#

Paul cuts directly to the chase and wins the thread.

Abdul runs a close second.

John: If she doesn't get arrested for prostitution because of her public self-incrimination, I thinks Our Lady of the Night will be able to retire next year. She won't be on the Forbes top Fifty but she's going to be in the top 1% of all income earners for the foreseeable future.

|3.13.08 @ 1:47PM|#

TWC, I believe that Dupre got immunity in exchange for her testimony against the proprietors of the Emperors Club. Her testimony yesterday is how her identity was revealed.

|3.13.08 @ 2:17PM|#

"is she $5,000 hot? No, nobody is" was correct. Thank you.

In the '60s, Tina Turner was. Even in '60s dollars. Your welcome. ;-)

|3.13.08 @ 3:11PM|#

"In the '60s, Tina Turner was. Even in '60s dollars. Your welcome. ;-)"

If Tina was worth 5000, then Ann Margerat and Anita Egberg were worth a cool million.

|3.13.08 @ 3:14PM|#

Can someone please explain to me why prostitution is illegal, yet people employed in the act of making pornography are not? Both involve 2 people having some type of sexual intercourse. In one instance - pornographers - BOTH people are paid to engage in sex. In prostitution, only one person is paid ot engage in sex. Yet only one is illegal. Does anyone know the reason for this?

|3.13.08 @ 3:24PM|#

Can someone please explain to me why prostitution is illegal, yet people employed in the act of making pornography are not?

Back in the '70s, porn actors were frequently busted on prostitution charges.

Since then, most of the porn prosecutions have focused on "obscenity" grounds and gone after the producers/distributors, rather than the actors. But that's a matter of practicality and the politics of the prosecution business, rather than any change in the law.

|3.13.08 @ 4:41PM|#

Thanks for the info.

But if, as you say, that actors are not being targeted/charged as a result of the practicality of enforcing laws, what happens when they file income tax returns? I'd imagine that when they recieve compensation for their, umm, services provided, that they are paying any and all taxes that anyone else would when recieving a paycheck. So how, if the law has not been chnaged, can these actors engage in what they do, recieve income from it, yet not be charged with what prostitutes, johns or pimps are charged with (which often times seems to involve income tax evasion, much like members of organized are charged with)?

guy in the back row|3.13.08 @ 4:58PM|#

If your whole thing is having sex without a condome, why would you go to a hooker and risk getting a disease? That is even more crazy.

Maybe Silda hasn't done it bareback since she learned about the hos?

|3.13.08 @ 5:47PM|#

i think if we are ever going to overturn this bullsh!t law on prostitution, we've gotta start supporting those who do it, left, rigth, or wrong.

Dare i call this an act of civil disobedience.

a victim of the dichotomy of his job and his desires?

|3.14.08 @ 1:19AM|#

But if, as you say, that actors are not being targeted/charged as a result of the practicality of enforcing laws, what happens when they file income tax returns? I'd imagine that when they recieve compensation for their, umm, services provided, that they are paying any and all taxes that anyone else would when recieving a paycheck. So how, if the law has not been chnaged, can these actors engage in what they do, recieve income from it, yet not be charged with what prostitutes, johns or pimps are charged with (which often times seems to involve income tax evasion, much like members of organized are charged with)?

The Feds don't care as long as the tax check arrives in the mail on time (intrastate prostitution is not a federal offense). Porn is the biggest industry in the San Fernando Valley, so I doubt that California is going to do anything about it nowadays. Most of the porn prosecutions these days are brought in the Bible Belt relating to distribution into those states. They obviously couldn't bring prostitution-related charges against actors doing the nasty in front of the cameras in Van Nuys or Reseda.

economist|3.14.08 @ 9:19PM|#

"Things like this really do show you that God has a sense of humor."
God's got nothing to do with it. I've often found that the people who most hate a certain practice often engage in it. So it's really not that big a surprise that Spitzer did it. All I wish is that I could that asswipe frog-marched on some kind of financial charge. I think I would try to make it a holiday.

|3.16.08 @ 12:33AM|#

'Some brilliant lawyer ought to ask the courts why the state may ban one type of sex between consenting adults but not another.'

Wow, a comparison of homosexuality to prostitution. That'll put those homos in their place.

|3.16.08 @ 1:03PM|#

It would have been nice to see such acceptance of the world's oldest profession when Republicans were caught up in it or when Larry Craig was caught in an airport bathroom.
Funny how all the laws against sexual harassment went by the wayside for Bill Clinton, while Clarence Thomas was put through the ringer.
Spitzer prosecuted people for prostitution. He ruined people who had done nothing wrong. Democrats can dish it out but they can't take it. Excuse me while I indulge in a wee bit of schadenfreude.

economist|3.16.08 @ 5:56PM|#

Alpha,
I think the point is that consensual sex between adults, whatever the motivations for each, is not any of the government's business.

|3.18.08 @ 12:08PM|#

It is illegal because of the old Bootlegger and Baptist alliance.

It is more profitable to the real jerks int eh world if it is illegal, they in turn have plenty of money to influence the political system. They also haev the ability to get the religious groups on their side. The power of the group is substantial compared to normal people who mind their business. Arguments apealing to Reason are useless in this case(as well as many others). The naivety shown by many libertarians that is encouraged by this magazine is almost harmful to our cause.

|3.18.08 @ 12:12PM|#

It is illegal because of the old Bootlegger and Baptist alliance.

It is more profitable to the real jerks in the world if it is illegal, they in turn have plenty of money to influence the political system. They also haev the ability to get the religious groups on their side. The power of the group is substantial compared to normal people who mind their business. Arguments apealing to Reason are useless in this case(as well as many others). The naivety shown by many libertarians, that is encouraged by this magazine, is almost harmful to our cause. If we don't acknowledge the real problems of deep corruption and political control of mafia type thugs then we are destined to keep failing.

Some politicians realyl are nice people, nevertheless they are controlled by real live jerks who really really really don't care about killing people and making YOU poor if it helps them. The most evil people are attracted to these most powerful spots.

|3.24.08 @ 9:35PM|#

"Consenting Adults"

"I think the point is that consensual sex between adults, whatever the motivations for each, is not any of the government's business."

This is a popular slogan but also misleading and even incomplete. If two consenting adults are having sex in public, their workplace or the police station, for example, then most would agree it becomes the government's business.

If the simplicity "two consenting adults" has a ring to it, how about "two married people?" That's even more simple and was the norm 50 years ago. Aren't slippery slopes wonderful?

The next slide downward for this thinking is sex between consenting adults and inanimate objects. Why can't a man marry his car? Did you ever see Knight Rider? Or beastiality? "Ahhhh", libertarian/social liberals would argue, "Animals can't give their consent." Well so what! Animals didn't give you consent to take them to the vet either!

The terms "consent" and "adult" are cleverly crafted but as arbitrary as "married" or "man and woman". Don't get me wrong, I AGREE with the sentence but not because it sounds simplistic and wholesome.

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