Gov. Perry Has Love/Hate Relationship with ObamaCare, Feds Snooped at Utah Olympics, Zuckerberg Seeks a Lot More Friends: P.M. Links

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  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Back in 2002, feds snooped on all e-mails and text communications in the Salt Lake City area around the time of the Olympics.

    So it was Romney who gave Obama the blueprint for domestic spying. I knew it!

  • ||

    With help from BOOOSH, of course.

  • ||

    So they were doing this 11 years ago. How far back beyond that do you think it goes?

  • ||

    How long has e-mail been around?

  • ||

    How long has the telephone been around?

  • RBS||

    Telegraph? Pony Express?

  • ||

    Writing?

  • Dr. Frankenstein||

    The Culper Ring?

  • William of Purple||

    Smoke signals.

  • William of Purple||

    Fred Flintstone had a phone.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    It's a living.

  • Hyperion||

    Obama is really just a puppet slave of the Boosh lizard empire. He really has wanted to do the right thing, all along, but the Boosh lizards would torment him and probably fly him off to the mysterious reptile planet, if he tried it.

  • Robert||

    I first read “We’re not as bad as Bush" as "We're not as bad as the British".

  • ||

    Pope Benedict stepped down because, he said, God told him to.

    In a separate interview, God said he was just kidding.

  • William of Purple||

    Pope Benedict stepped down because, he said, God told him to.

    You know who else did what God told him to?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    If God had a Son, He would look like Jesus.

    Just thought of that, and wanted to get it out there.

  • William of Purple||

    You've turned on the Sevo signal

  • ||

    I thought it was funny.

  • Brett L||

    You know who else felt like Jesus' son?

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Billy Crudup?

  • T||

    My gardener's kid?

  • Brett L||

    Nice

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    You mistook Jesus for a gardener? Wouldn't be the first time. John 20:15

  • mauricegirodias||

    Lou Reed?

  • Paul.||

    Willem Dafoe?

  • Paul.||

    If God had a Son, He would look like Jesus.

    Just thought of that, and wanted to get it out there.

    I got some kind of religious literature stuck in my door a couple of months ago. One of those pamplets. Jesus' depiction was that of a gay Kenny Loggins. I was honestly perplexed.

    Short hair, half shaved beard, blonde hilights... the works. Might have even had a single earring... I kept it for a while because it provided a large amount of humor to me.

    My weekends are a bit slow these days.

    Oh shit!1!! Oh shit!!! I found it online! I wasn't the only one!

    http://happyplace.someecards.c.....ny-loggins

  • Paul.||

    Ok, scratch the single earring.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Oh, holy shit was that funny. Maybe I'm just drunk. Or both.

  • Paul.||

    You know how I found that link? I typed "jesus kenny loggins" *bam* first hit.

  • BakedPenguin||

    I loved the exchange:

    How does his death help us?

    "No more bad songs."

  • Atanarjuat||

    My weekends are a bit slow these days.

    Get out there and experience life.

    And thanks for the laugh.

  • Tonio||

    Andrea Yates?

  • Brett L||

    Good call, God.

  • Cassius||

    Torquemada?

  • ||

  • ||

    Awesome, arriving at homophobia through the progressive victim methodology.

  • ||

    Where else do you think progressive victim methodology can take us? Is it going to be like six degrees of separation, and we can get anywhere?

    Hmm, can one arrive at libertarianism/individualism via progressive victim methodology? Is that like asking whether God can make a rock so heavy he can't lift it?

  • ||

    I'm pretty sure the only place it can take us is the insane asylum. Or possibly Rochester.

  • Damned Fool||

    Het privelege!

  • Irish||

    I'm almost certain that was a joke. The 'unless you're white' part pretty much gave it away.

    Saying that gay people were coopting the LGBT movement was pretty genius though.

  • Tonio||

    Not sure based on just the picture. And I'm not about to wade into that fever swamp.

  • Andrew S.||

    You've never seen the Tumblr Social Justice Warrior crowd. I'm sure that's a legit post. There are lots of them around.

    Basically, unless you're a trans woman of color with an alternate sexuality, you have privilege, and therefore are worthless. Or something.

  • Doctor Whom||

    Don't say that to a radfem. Many radfems complain that trans women have all of the privilege and are doing everything in their power to perpetuate the patriarchy. Yes, the dogma does get that convoluted.

  • Enough About Palin||

    Always remember that when you read the term "Social Justice" "Justice" is just "ism" spelled out.

  • ||

    jesse has pretty much had people say that to him IRL, though.

  • ||

    I like to pretend she was a one-off crazy though. It doesn't work very well. I'm poorly equipped for self-deception.

    She: All porn demeans women.
    Me: Not my porn, there are no women in it to be demeaned and the consumers aren't given crazy ideas about women from the porn.
    She: Exactly. Gay porn says that women are irrelevant and is therefore misogynistic.
    Me: *stares blankly before gathering jaw from floor*

    Also damn you all for having this conversation on one of the rare days when I worked off site.

  • ||

    Except that being this absurd is not out of the realm of possibility. Regardless, the fact that we can't tell speaks to the ridiculousness of the whole victim methodology.

  • ||

    They're arguing over it on TiA.

    I don't know if it's a joke or not, but "unless you're white" definitely doesn't give anything away. They actually say shit like that.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Joke. And a pretty good one.

  • Doctor Whom||

    Satires, to be effective, need to be satires of something, and I've read complaints by lesbian supremacists that gay men are coopting the LGBT movement.

  • ||

    Poe's Law strikes again.

  • Paul.||

    I'm almost certain that was a joke. The 'unless you're white' part pretty much gave it away.

    Yeah, I read it as a troll. An a+ troll, but I catch some trollology going on here.

  • Tonio||

    Plus, racism.

  • Paul.||

    Gaycism.

  • Andrew S.||

    Tumblr feminists are a constant source of mirth and hilarity.

  • Hyperion||

    And Lesbians perpetuate the assumption that men are unnecessary, but that's a good thing, just because.

  • ||

    word on the street is that it is a troll account

  • Goldwin Smith||

    Why don't libertarians love social justice?

  • Dr. Frankenstein||

    Because there isn't a good definition of it that includes actual justice.

  • Goldwin Smith||

    The whole term suggests that individual justice is unimportant. Gee I wonder why libertarians wouldn't like that?

  • ant1sthenes||

    So does "procedural justice"

  • ||

    Pope Benedict stepped down because, he said, God told him to.

    God also told him to bum around Chicago in a police car and to perform music.

  • NeonCat||

    "The College! The College! I'm putting the College of Cardinals back together!"

  • Pro Libertate||

    The Pope and the Pope Emeritus on a mission from God, in Chicago, facing off the entire Chicago police force and Illinois Nazis. I'd pay serious money for that to happen.

  • Dr. Frankenstein||

    The pope mobile as a cop car. I like this.
    It's 106 miles to Chicago. We've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses and weird hats.

  • RBS||

    The Penguin isn't happy about that.

  • Pro Libertate||

    What, she's going to talk that way to the Pope? Nah, this time, the Penguin is doing the Blues' bidding.

  • MJGreen||

    Damn, that was some great Tony derp in the Jacket's thread today. Just catching up on it now, and I do declare it hilarious!

  • ||

    Looks like I'll be gone for a little bit.

  • ||

    It takes a lot out of whoever socks him to come up with that much derp. Dear God.

  • ||

    Mark Zuckerberg has announced an initiative to make the Internet accessible to everybody on earth. But isn’t that what the government is for?

    I don't see the contradiction. The government will let him do it and then simply take credit for it.

  • ||

    After all, how else is the government supposed to get it done?

  • rts||

  • rts||

  • Virginian||

    That's what professional police work looks like.

  • ||

    Oh, it's not like they killed him. They just made him brain dead. He could have lived on life support indefinitely.

    /policeone

  • ||

    for his own safety, I assume?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Pope Benedict stepped down because, he said, God told him to.

    Or was it Val Kilmer disguising his voice?

  • ||

    ..."It IS God!"

  • William of Purple||

    It was Alannis Morisette.

  • Andrew S.||

    No, it was Alan Rickman.

  • Paul.||

    Who?

  • ||

    What does God need with a pope?

  • wareagle||

    are you sure it's not the other way around?

  • Hyperion||

    Who else is going to go around in that silly costume?

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Hey, when Tom Brady tells you to do something, you just do it.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Elsewhere, UPS will be dropping thousands of spouses from its insurance plan because of ObamaCare.

    Yet more eggs for the single-payer omelette. A good thing those spouses didn't like their health plan or they could have kept it.

  • Pro Libertate||

    ANECDOTAL. RETRACT.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Tell it to Attack Watch, sister.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    Citing ObamaCare as a reason, the the University of Virginia has announced that spouses of University employees who have access to health insurance through their own jobs will no longer be eligible for health insurance coverage.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-G.....-obamacare

  • Matrix||

    Liberals have little to nothing to say about that, but they are frothing at the mouth over UPS doing this.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Nutty Atlanta kid had "AK-47 style" weapon and 500 rounds with him yesterday:

    http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/georg.....ing/nZTz3/

  • NeonCat||

    I saw on the news that the SWAT team broke into the house he had been staying at - it wasn't his house, he was staying at his friend's girlfriend's house. I guess no one answered so they went ahead and entered.

    Honestly, if crazy people are going to misuse guns I wish they'd all do no more than shoot a few things without hurting anyone and give themselves up.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    They should just walk out on to their back porch, shoot into the air a few times, and then call it a day.

  • NeonCat||

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    -Jason Heap is a religious scholar who has submitted his application to the Armed Forces Chaplains Board in an effort to become an official Navy chaplain. Though he’s passed his physical and meets all of the necessary requirements, there is one issue that may prevent him from getting the job—his belief. Heap, who doesn’t believe in God, wants to become the military’s first humanist chaplain. Currently, lawmakers in Washington are attempting to create legislation that could potentially disqualify atheists from being a part of the chaplain corps. Rep. John Fleming, sponsor of an amendment to the annual defense authorization bill that could block military officials from accepting non-believers into the program, told Stars and Stripes, “The notion of an atheist chaplain is nonsensical; it’s an oxymoron. It is absurd to argue that someone with no spiritual inclination should fill that role, especially when it could well mean that such an individual would take the place of a true chaplain who has been endorsed by a religious organization.” His amendment would require an established organization to first endorse chaplaincy candidates.

    http://www.relevantmagazine.co.....y-chaplain

  • ||

    Currently, lawmakers in Washington are attempting to create legislation that could potentially disqualify atheists from being a part of the chaplain corps.

    Because...Congress shall make no law...

    Have these people ever read it?

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    I know. See also the No Religious Test Clause.

  • CE||

    Unless you want to run for political office in Texas.

  • Xenocles||

    Those provisions in state constitutions would seem to be void on their face, as every single state office could be considered "and office of public trust under the United States." Since states are "under" the United States per the Supremacy Clause, I would say that the No Religious Test Clause is binding against the states.

    Of course, the people who wrote those state clauses likely had a different interpretation.

  • wareagle||

    why would an atheist want to be part of the chaplain corps anyway? Sounds like a vegan working on a cattle ranch.

  • Paul.||

    Have these people ever read it?

    Uhh yes. Try this, tell your four year old to never, ever look in the cookie jar. The framers really fucked up when they said "Congress shall make no law...".

    It's as if they were begging for a law.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Humanism is actually a close relative to libertarianism.

  • Agammamon||

    And you are a fucking idiot - Secular Humanism is a big-state worshipping philosophy.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Damn, you are ignorant. Secular Humanism emphasizes:

    Free inquiry as opposed to censorship and imposition of belief; separation of church and state; the ideal of freedom from religious control and from jingoistic government control; ethics based on critical intelligence rather than that deduced from religious belief; moral education; religious skepticism; reason; a belief in science and technology as the best way of understanding the world; evolution; and education as the essential method of building humane, free, and democratic societies.

    Council for Secular Humanism

  • Robert S||

    They also emphasize using the public school system to brainwash children. Very libertarian.

    "I am convinced that the battle for humankind's future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers that correctly perceive their role as proselytizers of a new faith"

    - Second Humanist Manifesto

  • Paul.||

    Humanism is actually a close relative to libertarianism.

    Sexual humanism?

  • Tonio||

    I don't know about others, but for me part of being a non-believer is not needing someone else to tell me what to believe.

    I've never done military service, and I can see the need for support, but don't expect my employer to provide those supportive people for me.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    I am sure there are 'humanists' serving in our military. If the military is going to provide religious chaplains for their 'spiritual needs' then they should allow a humanist chaplain.

  • Nazdrakke||

    There are already humanist support services for military members; they're called "prostitutes" and "bartenders."

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Nice.

  • R C Dean||

    Humanists need a chaplain like a man needs a gynecologist.

  • R C Dean||

    Humanists need a chaplain like a man needs a gynecologist.

  • ||

    Agreed. Perhaps they will pass the amendment and someone will finally realize that having military chaplains is HOLY FUCKBALLS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. But probably not.

  • ||

    I'd say recent rulings have been wrong concerning "separation of church and state". That is certainly not what the first amendment says or implies. Just says:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

    Congress has made no law establishing a religion or prohibited the exercise of religion. All the rest of it is simply judicial activism.

  • ||

    Madison thought they were unconstitutional. What I'm saying has nothing to do with recent rulings. A dime of government money spent on a chaplain is establishment, not to mention carting religious figures around in an official religio-military capacity is...totally establishment.

  • ||

    A dime of government money spent on a chaplain is establishment

    I see your point, but I'm not sure I agree. It would certainly be supporting religion. Not sure it is establishing. I don't see the two as the same.

    Let me frame it this way. When the soldier is out fighting, he needs his basic requirements met. The government provides food, clothing, water, soap... I can see how a religious person could consider their spiritual needs along the same lines. So they're providing a requirement of the soldier rather than "establishing" any religion.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Not to mention that being there are various kinds of chaplains (Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, etc) that it isn't establishing anything at all, but providing a service.

  • JEP||

    Separation of church and state is absolutely no where in the Constitution. I believe the idea was put forth in the Federalist Papers, but it never made it into any official document.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The Establishment Clause.

  • JEP||

    The Establishment Clause does not contain the phrase "separation of church and state"

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    It has the same meaning though.

    The Congress or State shall not establish/prohibit a religion. Any activity of a church is "religion".

  • JEP||

    it doesn't necessarily have the same meaning.

    I would have a much broader definition of "religion" - many religions don't necessarily have churches.

  • JEP||

    not saying i'm against it, but it didn't make it into the constitution.

    We can debate what is exactly implied by "separation", but most people assume the phrase is in one of the constitutional amendments, which it's not.

  • Xenocles||

    Failing to recognize the chaplain's credentialing organization amounts to recognizing some religions but not others. There's certainly a case to be made that that sort of discrimination amounts to establishment.

    Back on the boat a guy in my division put in a request to be the ship's humanist lay leader - provided his certificate from the Universal Life Church and everything. I signed off on it but it ultimately went nowhere.

  • ||

    Failing to recognize the chaplain's credentialing organization amounts to recognizing some religions but not others. There's certainly a case to be made that that sort of discrimination amounts to establishment.

    Yeah, assuming military chaplains are constitutional to begin with, saying no to any particular religion could certainly be called establishment. And then you open the "what constitutes religion" box.

    I worship pussy and need to have pictures of my gods hanging in my bunk.

  • ||

    Is it? I don't really see a problem with military chaplains so long as the attempt to accommodate everyone.

    And I'm not sure that need includes atheists, I mean he's kind of right that it makes no sense. But I guess humanist and atheist aren't synonymous so maybe they have "spiritual" needs of some sort. I personally think it is just a silly as religion.

  • ||

    I guess I didn't think of chaplains as counselors too as others described so I withdraw the second paragraph. Still don't think it is unconstitutional.

  • Agammamon||

    The problem is that 'officially' chaplains provide religious support. Yes, anyone can go to them (mostly) confidentially and get (mostly) non-religious advice and help - but conceptually many people see them as priests only.

    The thing is that chaplains are restricted to providing religious services within their own 'group' - muslim chaplains serve all muslims, jewish chaplains serve all jews, christian chaplains serve all Christians.

    There isn't a whole lot of reason to create a 'humanist' chaplaincy - you can get the same counseling from the religious chaplains and atheists mostly don't go to services so there's 75% of a chaplain's job that he won't be doing.

  • PapayaSF||

    The thing is that chaplains are restricted to providing religious services within their own 'group'

    Really? Is this a new thing? Various WWII movies indicate otherwise.

  • Xenocles||

    That's not the impression I got. I've never gone to one since I've never felt the need, but I've always been under the impression that I could go to any chaplain for any of their non-sectarian services. Obviously I wouldn't ask a rabbi to consecrate a host or to give advice on keeping halal, but that ought to be obvious to anyone seeking those services.

  • Agammamon||

    Unfortunately - that's *already* been decided.

    We (atheists in general, not humanists specifically) even had a lawsuit over 'evening prayer' in the navy about a decade ago, and lost.

  • Steve G||

    All religious stuff aside, one huge benefit I mention below is the confidential "therapy" available by talking w/ a chaplain. Could this be got by talking w/ mental health folks, yes, but involves more potential career pitfalls....

  • NeonCat||

    It's my understanding (and so I admit I could be wrong) that military chaplains are expected to minister to service members no matter what their faith is. Many of these faiths are incompatible but they manage to do it. If so, so long as the humanist chaplain doesn't conclude his ministering with "Amen to your non-existent god" I'm not sure what the problem is.

  • ||

    Outragers gotta outrage.

    I'm actually surprised the military Chaplains have lasted as long as they have given recent rulings.

  • Steve G||

    Atheist chaplain is not an oxymoron, if you accept the fact that non-bleevers have spiritual needs too. The AF, of which I'm most aware, actually declares 'spiritual' health as important to 'mental' and 'physical' health. If I'm a non-believer I'd sure like to speak confidentially with someone who knew what was going on inside my head vs someone who believed in an old man in the sky.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Get a therapist.

  • Agammamon||

    Except atheist wouldn't believe in 'spiritual help' - it'd be *mental health*.

  • Xenocles||

    This is not true. Atheist does not mean materialist; there are many godless but mystic beliefs.

  • ||

    That would be a damn shame as obviously those of an agnostic/atheist mentality need a supportive ear as much as the christian, hindu, or muslim serviceman.

  • T||

    A little bit more, sometimes, given how many godbotherers there are in the military. I never had somebody try to sing a 'god is non-existent' cadence during PT, but I had to complain about Jesus cadences.

  • Tejicano||

    Just wow. That shows how long it's been since I ran in formation. All the cadences we sang were about killing or pussy.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Wait, if the military has to accept a humanist chaplain for the sake of religious freedom, does that mean that humanism can't be taught in schools?

  • Mickey Rat||

    So now atheists are upset the government does not consider their beliefs religious?

  • ||

    Kansas school bus overturns, at least 8 hospitalized

    A school bus with at least 30 grade school girls overturned in Northeastern Kansas about 1 p.m. Wednesday.

    Witnesses said there were "little girls all over the place" as the bus lay on its side at Kansas Highway 7 and Kansas Highway 32 near Bonner Springs.

    No one was critically injured. Most of the wounds were cuts and bruises.

    The girls were students at Pembroke Hill School in Kansas City, Mo., about 18 miles east of the crash site.

    Paramedics rushed to the scene. Some children were placed on stretchers, while others walked around in a daze, still processing the chaos. The driver was also hurt.

    The bus appears to have skidded out of control and toppled over on the southbound ramp for Highway 7, according to the Kansas Highway Patrol.

    Ban it.

  • ||

    Article makes absolutely no mention of seat belts. As far as I know, primary school buses still lack them completely, despite the nanny state making them compulsory for adults, along with compulsory special seats for children up to like 80lbs now.

  • Tonio||

    No schoolbuses have seat belts. Every time I've asked about this the stated reason is that schoolbuses have a great safety record (ie, bullshit).

    The real reason is that you'd never get the kids to use them, and the government doesn't want to be liable.

  • Goldwin Smith||

    I guess no unionized employee will want the job of making sure kids are wearing seatbelts?

  • NeonCat||

    Eons ago, I and several other students were carted around on a bus with seat belts. Okay, it was a special education bus, but it did have seat belts. And air conditioning plus tinted windows.

    That bus was the bomb.

  • Whahappan?||

    My little girl is going into 3rd grade here in Central NJ. Her (regular size!) school bus has seatbelts, and has since kindergarten. Not sure how long ago they started putting them in schoolbuses.

  • Bam!||

  • gaijin||

    there were "little girls all over the place"

    that reads oddly

  • Xenocles||

    Speaking of which, has anyone seen Warty today?

  • Ted S.||

    What's the matter with Kansas, anyway?

  • ||

    What Would Libertarianism Look Like, If It Wasn't Just White People?, asks white person.

    Actually not nearly as bad as I expected, but it's pretty short on substantive examples.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Thomas Sowell without the militarism?

  • BiMonSciFiCon||

    Walter Williams? S. Dalmia?

  • Irish||

    Based on pictures of the Young Americans for Liberty conventions that I've seen, it doesn't look like it's just white people.

  • RBS||

    Yeah, but that doesn't fit the stereotype.

  • ||

    But certainly no wiminz.

  • Hyperion||

    Those pictures don't exist. Rand Paul and his racist brigade invented those and planted them there. ALL libertarians are WHITE!

  • BakedPenguin||

    Honestly, given the number of Asians who are entrepreneurs / doctors / etc, I'm amazed there aren't more Asian libertarians.

  • Hyperion||

    That's surprising to me also. The only Asian guy that I am friends with, is a Republican. He sort of laughs at my Libertarianism, he doesn't really get it. He just wants to keep more of his own money and he sees electing Republicans as the way to do that. Maybe he feels more free here than he did in Korea, and so therefore thinks my concerns are silly. But one day, I am going to talk to him about this, he's the type of person to really enjoy and engage in that sort of conversation, pretty smart guy.

  • ||

    I read it yesterday and leaned toward the "this is really irritating" side. Maybe I'm more sensitive. It seems the main critique is that Libertarians want to focus on the individual and, when addressing a group as a bloc, fail to mention or pay appropriate obeisance to the unique cultural backstory (read: victimhood) of that particular bloc. And this paragraph is just silly:

    Within today's libertarianism, topics like racism and classism often take the back burner, or are ignored entirely. Issues of inequality and poverty, solitary confinement and prison reform, women's rights, queer and trans* abuse, the dissolution and decline of the family, and drugs and crime within minority communities are often met with hostility.

    You've gotta be kidding me. I am mind-numbingly tired of my gay friends (or LGBT or whatever) pissing on the concept that libertarians don't support gay rights. Jesus.

    Really what they're pissed about is that libertarians don't want to support some form of corrective collective plundering of non-complicit people to correct the all-too-obvious past abuses suffered by these groups.

  • ||

    We don't care about prison reform? We don't care about drugs and crime? I mean...that's completely absurd.

  • ||

    That's what I mean. It just gets so goddam irritating after that bit that the rest of the article is pointless.

    Though you did a better job at sum-up below with the "you can't mesh identity politics with individualism" bit. That was what I'm on about.

  • ||

    Thanks. Lemme break this shit down some more because it's real stupid.

    [Another article] begins by stating that, "the liberty movement needs more color," and goes on to say that, "Libertarians offer minority groups in this country something that has never been offered to them before: the power of self-determination." While libertarianism does offer all individuals self-determination, such rhetoric completely overlooks the liberation movements that minority groups have already created: the Black Panthers, black nationalism, the South African apartheid resistance, the Chicano movement, Black Liberation Army, Yellow Power movement, Native Youth Movement, and the American Indian Movement. These movements gave agency and self-determination to their own people, and were sources of racial pride, self-determination, and autonomy. The article treats people of color, and their cultural and political experiences, as a political commodity. It reduces them to a voting bloc — as did Paul during his visit to Howard. In ignoring self-determination movements and the intersections of race and libertarianism, libertarians disregard the intellectual and cultural identity and independence of the communities, cultures, and races involved.

    Those "liberation movements," to the best of my knowledge, are not about self-determination, but about a group's ability to determine the group's future. (cont'd)

  • ||

    Meanwhile, all of those "X power" movements are what is treating people of color, etc., as political commodities and voting blocs.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Those "liberation movements" are all centered around ethnic chauvinism, not liberation in the actual sense. they're basically the KKK without the cross-burnings, and substitute media lynchings for the real thing.

  • ||

    Oh yeah, that part bugged me too.

    Maybe it's worse than I remember. Maybe it's because the author is kinda cute.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Janice Rogers Brown, but on the Supreme Court?

  • ||

    When libertarians do reach out to minorities, they often do so with overtones of a white savior complex, claiming that minorities simply need to hear the “saving gospel” of Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman, or read more Murray Rothbard in order to see the ills of their ways. This infantilizes minorities (“If they could just see that the state isn’t trying to help them!”), and treats minority groups as a “problem” that must be addressed, rather than as groups of people with agency, goals, perceptions, and purposes of their own. Minorities are not interested in hearing someone's one-size-fits-all gospel.

    Well then that's a problem. Libertarianism is essentially a one-size-fits-all gospel. Libertarianism doesn't have something to give away, it doesn't have some perk that is realized by some and not others equally.

    If there is any seeming imbalance in libertarianism, it is because the dogma is being viewed through the distorted lens of what currently exists: a racist, oppressive, and unequal society that has been built by everything but libertarian principles.

  • ||

    That part of the article really irritated me.

    Libertarians wave around their pet tomes at everbody.

  • Pro Libertate||

    White savior complex? There's some projection. I can't believe blacks aren't beating up left-wing whites on a regular basis for the condescension, which is as racist as it gets in modern America. I mean, it's seriously patronizing.

  • wareagle||

    I like the part where the white guy, with zero self-awareness apparently, tells us what "minorities are no interested in..."

  • BakedPenguin||

    White girl, but point taken.

  • ||

    Well then that's a problem. Libertarianism is essentially a one-size-fits-all gospel.

    Sort of. Except that the "size" is "any size, because it's anything you want." But the paragraph you quoted is pretty incoherent: "treats minority groups as a 'problem' that must be addressed, rather than as groups of people with agency, goals, perceptions, and purposes of their own." Which is it, are minorities people with purposes of their own, or groups? This is just really unclear thinking, because you can't mesh identity politics with individualism.

  • Pro Libertate||

    It amazes me how much people like this can't even conceive of libertarianism and its implications.

  • robc||

    Covered in that earlier thread today too.

  • MJGreen||

    This infantilizes minorities (“If they could just see that the state isn’t trying to help them!”)

    1. How is that infantilizing? Ignoring the content, "hey, I think you're mistaken," is not infantilizing. But the actual content (the libertarian argument) is asking for personal responsibility and... well, agency. That's infantilizing!?

    2. How is that basic pitch not applicable to every other ideology argument ever?

  • Tonio||

    The ghost of Bayard Rustin would beg to differ.

  • MJGreen||

    It would look the same, because libertarianism is not dependent on race or gender or class or any other shit.

  • lap83||

    Not reading that. White liberals love to pretend that their political experience is a rainbow smorgasbord of racial diversity, when they almost exclusively hang out with others who look exactly like them. Ethnic people are merely tools.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Gov. Rick Perry may hate ObamaCare but it seems as though his administration is quite fond of the federal money they could get out of it.

    On the up side, he's apparently out of the 2016 Republican nomination race.

  • rac3rx||

    I don't know that Perry realized it, but he was never really in the 2016 nomination race.

  • NeonCat||

    Computer tries to predict future crime spots in Norcross, GA.

  • ||

    You don't need a computer for that

  • ||

    No, you need three autistic types in a pool, or something.

  • CE||

    Maybe a giant computer that spits out Social Security numbers, and you have to figure out if they're the victims or the perps?

  • Steve G||

  • RBS||

    Watchout!

    This Horry County CAST Coalition seems shady. They use federal money to combat DUI/underage drinking. But, one of the consequences of getting a DUI in SC is alcohol "counseling" and several members of CAST just happen to be state approved providers.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    I was convicted of DWI in New York state and had to undergo mandatory group counseling. 8-15 people, maybe one of them a woman, packed into a small room for fifteen months. $35 a session.

  • rts||

    95-year-old murder suspect to undergo psychiatric evaluation

    Police allege [Furman] attacked his 85-year-old roommate on Sunday at Interior Health's Polson Special Care Facility — a secure facility that provides care for people who have dementia complicated by psychiatric and behavioural issues. ...

    Furman, a platoon sergeant in an elite commando unit known as the Devil's Brigade during the Second World War, was awarded a Bronze Star medal by the U.S government

    Pretty spry for 95, I guess...

  • ||

    And all the grandmas say he's pretty spry for an old guy.

  • kinnath||

    +1

  • NeonCat||

    "I think he's still on his first heart!"

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    How spry do you have to be to do in an 85-year-old?

  • Tonio||

    Depends on how old the one doing the doing-in is.

  • NeonCat||

    This is why libertarians really want to gut social security: geriatric fights on pay per view.

  • PapayaSF||

    And for synchronicity, The Devil's Brigade (1968) is on TCM right now.

  • William of Purple||

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I thought at first he was some kind of Chippendale dancer invited by the premier. But no, he acted alone (so says the official story).

    And it says Merkel was watching *The Flying Dutchman* at the time.

  • ||

  • ||

    No pictures?

  • gaijin||

    well, the dude in question is a painter.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Do you know who else was a painter?

  • Tonio||

    Leonardo da Vinci?

  • gaijin||

    Bob Ross?

  • gaijin||

    so he would have kept his position if the sex had been private

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I thought what happened in Costa Rica stayed in Costa Rica?

  • NeonCat||

    Apparently not if it's public. Private sex should still be okay.

    Really, it boils down once again to "cop (or in this case, witnesses) didn't see it, I didn't do it."

  • Ice Nine||

    Or if he had gotten some kind of debilitating cramp.

  • ||

    Dr. Phil wants to know if it's okay to have sex with a drunk girl

    The 62-year-old talk show psychologist, whose full name is Dr. Phil McGraw, often has themes and topics for his upcoming shows tweeted out to fans and followers for input, but this one appeared to spark outrage.

    "Dr. Oz was saving lives today and Dr. Phil is trying to hook up with drunk girls," Samir Mezrahi of Buzzfeed wrote.

    "If a person is a misogynist, is it ok to just refer to him as 'Dr. Phil' from now on?" another upset tweeter wrote.

    The controversial tweet — which appears to reduce rape to a "yes or no" prompt in 140 characters — was taken down almost immediately, but not before it had the chance to spur a Change.org petition.

    Damnit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a hypersensitive feminist!

  • RBS||

    Wait, who the fuck is Dr. Oz?

  • Andrew S.||

    Just like Dr. Phil, he became famous because of Oprah. Got his own show, uses the platform to display a stunning amount of anti-scientific idiocy, which Oprah's former audience laps up.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "Dr. Obsorne, the pharmacy called - they want to know if you authorized the prescription for 'lots of [bleep]ing drugs in time for the concert.'"

  • Ted S.||

    Some asshole doctor with a TV show who had Jenny McCarthy on and was totally uncritical of her.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Jenny is hot. Maybe he wanted to get into her pants.

  • Whahappan?||

    The Great and Powerful...

  • ||

    I don't see the problem with that tweet. It was an unscientific, impromptu poll on social media. It wasn't like he was up in the air about it and trying to decide how to feel about fucking drunk chicks.

    Look at me, standing up for Dr. Phil. Goddamn idiots making me stand up for other idiots.

    BTW, related story, my buddy served him at Pappasitos in Dallas last year. Dr. Phil told him "What the fuck is your problem? Go get the hottest server on staff and have her serve us." My friend wondered why that didn't elicit any reaction from me, I dunno, it didn't seem surprising at all.

  • ||

    It wasn't like he was up in the air about it and trying to decide how to feel about fucking drunk chicks.

    Correction: he probably doesn't have a problem with it privately (on account of the story and his overall scum bag look), but that tweet was far from a public admission.

  • NeonCat||

    Is it wrong that I want your friend to have said (in the flamiest tone possible) "Honey, I *AM* the hottest server on staff, can I interest you in an appetizer?"

  • ||

    Not at all! HAHA he actually sent the biggest heifer on the wait staff to his table instead.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    You can have sex with them, but it is wrong to ask them to "bark like a dirty, dirty dog" for you.

  • Mickey Rat||

    I thought everyone knew the answer is "not if she regrets it in the morning"?

  • Goldwin Smith||

    So what is the take of the German opposition parties on the bailouts?

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    -Is Masturbation a Sin?

    -You won't find anywhere in the Bible that explicitly states that masturbation is sinful. But I do believe that masturbation is self-serving (instead of other-serving), based on fantasy (which disconnects us from reality), breaks apart the intimacy and commitment of marriage (which breaks apart the intimacy and commitment to Christ), it deteriorates self-control (which is a fruit of the Spirit) and ultimately makes our physical desires an idol (which God does not like). These things bring death to us. Death comes from sin. So yes, I do believe that masturbation is sinful.

    http://www.relevantmagazine.co.....-follow-up

  • Damned Fool||

    People have too much time on their hands if they care about this.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    If you read the whole thing it is pretty incredible. The guy ended up on the Da Ali G show or something.

  • Tonio||

    During the early/mid twentieth century there was a puritan-fueled anti-masturbation moral panic. That led to a lot of repressed males. Not a good thing.

  • NeonCat||

    More like starting about 1820 and continuing on until after WW2. By our lights they were completely insane.

  • Tonio||

    Male masturbation remains a sin in Catholicism.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Priests want those horny males for themselves.

  • ||

    Well obviously, they should be masturbating with all of that free time.

  • Brandon||

    Well, if you heathens would stop all that masturbating, you would have too much time on your hands too.

  • gaijin||

    it deteriorates self-control...makes our physical desires an idol

    Or, maybe it just enables humans to scratch an itch and move on with whatever else our special purpose in life is supposed to be?

  • Pro Libertate||

    The whole Onan thing is an erroneous reading, by the way, because it wasn't the seed getting spilled that was the problem, it was not putting the seed where God said to that was. So if God tells you to impregnate your wife, do it, but it's okay to masturbate at other times. I think.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "it wasn't the seed getting spilled that was the problem, it was not putting the seed where God said to that was."

    Um, yeah!

    "it's okay to masturbate at other times"

    But that isn't "putting the seed where God said to," is it?

    Yes, I know the bit about giving kids to your brother's widow, but his evasion of the requirement provided Onan's *motivation,* it wasn't the *reason* his behavior was wrong.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Was, too.

  • ant1sthenes||

    I'm pretty sure it was. If he had banged her while his brother was alive, he wouldn't be condemned for being "lustful" in some abstract way, he would be condemned for being an adulterer. That said, I don't know how useful it is to compare legalistic OT morality (which judges what you do) with spiritualistic NT morality (which judges what you are).

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Full disclosure: The New American Bible, authorized English translation for the US, has this note on Onan: "In the present story, it is primarily Onan's violation of this law [to give children to your brother's widow], rather than the means he used to circumvent it, that brought on him God's displeasure."

  • ||

    But that isn't "putting the seed where God said to," is it?

    God told me to put my seed in a tissue.

  • gaijin||

    Every sperm is scared
    Every sperm is good
    Every sperm helps populate your neighborhood

  • Damned Fool||

    +1 Monty Python

  • ||

    Choir (intervening):
    Sperm! Sperm! Sperm! Sperm!
    Lovely Sperm! Wonderful Sperm!
    Sperm spe-e-e-e-rm spam spe-e-e-e-rm Sperm.
    Lovely Sperm! Lovely Sperm! Lovely Sperm! Lovely Sperm!
    Sperm Sperm Sperm Sperm!

    Er wait... wrong Python

  • robc||

    The whole Onan thing is an erroneous reading

    Yep. However lusting after a married (but not to you) woman is equivalent to adultery (see Carter, James Earl), so make sure when jacking it, you are thinking about single chicks.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I don't recall Jimmy Carter having a book in the Bible.

  • robc||

    Its in the Apocrypha.

  • Killazontherun||

    I do one better to serve the Lords will and imagine making love to the giant bird riding chick with the big boobs from the Heavy Metal movie who only exists as animated art. I'd like to imagine her, me and my wife in a three way, but given she is married, it might be a sin.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Who's married - the chicken?

  • Killazontherun||

    Exactly. He lays with chickens dies forever cause Jehovah's maternal aunt was Lilitu. Its in the Bible and shit.

  • Killazontherun||

    And Jehovah approved of it so much he condemned a son of Moses for mocking his father on catching the old man jacking it. Jesse Eubanks, you DO NOT want to get on God's bad side. I recommend you renounce your anti-masturbation propaganda and lose the modernistic notions that place too much importance in the intangible and fantasy bound selfish sentiment you call intimacy in human relations that lead you to this dangerous path astray from God.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    "Sin" itself does not exist to us rationalists.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Exception: Opposing Obama. That's a mortal sin.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Sure it does, it's just negative psychological phenomena (typically but not always leading to unhealthy choices and behaviors) operative under a reasonable degree of moral agency (that is, excluding true insanity or seriously compulsive behavior, and therefore which it is worthwhile to judge and condemn).

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    What moral agent kicks in if I commit adultery?

    Sex outside marriage is a positive moral end to some of us.

  • Mickey Rat||

    The where you promised to be faithful to your spouse? Or, the one where the man or woman you are having sex with promised to be faithful to their spouse. Not keeping to your commitments is never a positive moral end.

  • ant1sthenes||

    You're the (im)moral agent if you commit adultery, numbnuts. Do you even know what moral agency is?

  • Hyperion||

    Is Masturbation a Sin?

    If it being a sin can be used in some way to get votes or oppress people, then the answer is, yes.

    If not, it's probably ok.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Masturbation is not a sin. Disobedience is.

    Next time, when God tells you to impregnate your dead brother's widow, you'll do as you're told.

  • ||

    masturbation is self-serving (instead of other-serving), based on fantasy (which disconnects us from reality), breaks apart the intimacy and commitment of marriage (which breaks apart the intimacy and commitment to Christ), it deteriorates self-control (which is a fruit of the Spirit) and ultimately makes our physical desires an idol

    So, poundin teh pud is libertarian.

  • ||

    ...but not before it had the chance to spur a Change.org petition

    NOOOOOO!!! Not a Change.org petition!!!!

  • Killazontherun||

    Count the Cayman Islands as the latest domino to fall to Leviathan:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/.....money.html

    The agreement with the Caymans is another sign that U.S. taxpayers’ accounts are increasingly subject to government scrutiny on multiple fronts. Several other Caribbean jurisdictions with significant financial industries, such as Bermuda and the Bahamas, are among the dozens of countries having discussions about similar accords.

    “They’re falling like dominoes,” Brager said.

    So-called intergovernmental agreements, or IGAs, similar to the one announced last week allow banks to share the information with their own governments, which then pass the data on to the IRS.

  • Pro Libertate||

    BVI.

  • Andrew S.||

    Cayman Islands guy: [laughs] I'm sorry, but I cannot divulge information about that customer's secret illegal account.
    [hangs up]
    Oh, crap. I shouldn't have said he was a customer.
    Oh, crap. I shouldn't have said it was a secret.
    Oh, crap! I certainly shouldn't have said it was illegal.
    [sighs] It's too hot today.

  • ||

    Amanda Marcotte demands you take a woman in a bikini seriously!

    Unsurprisingly, Rey ignores the fact that bathing suits have gotten skimpier as women's actual rights and power have grown, focusing strictly on questionable research that purportedly shows men can't think of women as people if they can see the belly button.

    Seems to me that the relentless focus on what women are wearing instead of what they're doing is evidence of how little power women actually have in the world. We'll know women have real power when their work and their beliefs cannot be dismissed because they do or don't show belly button at the beach. If laying claim to power and dignity were as simple as wearing a higher neckline, then it wouldn't have taken the famously modest 19th-century women decades to get the vote. If the exposure of sunlight to your navel really were so disempowering, then Barack Obama wouldn't be president. The mere fact that women's modesty is constantly being debated is evidence enough that women aren't yet equal. If we want women "to be taken seriously," we should, umm, take them seriously, and stop linking dignity to fabric.

    Recall this is the same person who shamed women for wearing thongs with yoga pants.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    Does she think a male politician who wore a speedo publicly would not be mocked?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Not to start rumors, but didn't Teddy Kennedy do that several times on the Senate floor?

  • Brandon||

    He was usually wearing a lacy brassiere and garter under his suit. Is that what you mean?

  • Irish||

    If we want women "to be taken seriously," we should, umm, take them seriously, and stop linking dignity to fabric.

    That's just wonderful. Basically a woman should be allowed to wear whatever she wants, whenever she wants and no one should be critical.

  • T||

    Didn't Ahnuld do that?

  • Irish||

    Seems to me that the relentless focus on what women are wearing instead of what they're doing is evidence of how little power women actually have in the world.

    How many things can a woman possibly be doing if she is wearing a bikini? It's not like people are having trouble taking high powered lawyers seriously because they wear bikinis around the office.

  • NeonCat||

    They don't?!

    I thought that law degree looked fake! Ipsum Lorem University of Law indeed!

  • MJGreen||

    Single Female Lawyer
    Fighting for her client
    Wearing sexy mini-skirts
    And bein' self-reliant

  • Damned Fool||

    And then two days later praised Victoria's Secret for pitching a line to youngish girls. I contrasted these two for a feminist I know: the rationalizations were amusing.

  • Hyperion||

    Amanda Marcotte demands you take a woman in a bikini seriously!

    Damnit! I start out each day trying to find out what she demands, and making sure I comply with that. And I missed that one, thanks for posting it!

  • Killazontherun||

    Okay, if you want people to treat women who wear bikinis in social situations with dignity, then shouldn't you also treat the guys who wear trench coats and jack off to those women in public with dignity and respect? What's good for the gander is good for the goose, right?

    Having said that, it's so common to see women walking around in the stores in my town and around my neighborhood in bikini tops, I don't even notice them unless the wearer is extra special cute. Marcotte protests are a bit much.

  • ||

    It seems to me that she's falsely conflating whether one should be taken seriously with whether one can expect to be taken seriously.

  • ||

    Guys, I know reading Marcotte really sucks, but you have got to start clicking through if you're going to respond because I really don't want to have to defend her. She's not defending wearing bikinis except in general as swimwear, against some crazy SoCon who thinks everyone needs to wear a one-piece or else men won't be able to look at women and think they are more than sex objects. Hate Marcotte all you want but give me a break, she's obviously right about not being the Taliban.

  • ||

    Maybe making you defend her is how we punish you for being the worst? Did you ever think of that, smart guy?

  • ||

    Goddamn you!

  • Killazontherun||

    Ha! You fell for it! I'm not going to read Ms. Marcotte. The version of her in my head is bad enough, the reality of her is far worse.

  • rac3rx||

    No, actually most people need to wear a 1 piece because they're gross as hell and nobody really wants to see that shit.

    I've personally never understood why many women would walk around in public wearing bikinis, but freak out if someone walked in on them in their underwear.

  • Killazontherun||

    This is practically Daisy Duke city here. A few fatties try it, but most girls are fit enough where it is not at all off putting. Like I said, I don't even notice most of the time, and in the case of fat hanging out, I always notice.

  • ||

    Conditioning. Underwear is supposed to not be seen, so if it is, it produces a similar reaction to being seen naked. It's foolish, but societal proscriptions on nudity are foolish.

  • T||

    No, societal proscriptions on nudity make the world a better place because most people are lumpy and unattractive.

  • Derpetologist||

    Hmm, an unusual inscription. I will do my best to render it in English.

    Ahem:

    When women are treated differently because of their gender and they like it, it is called "empowerment".

    When they are treated differently because of their gender and they don't like it, it is called "sexism".

    It is OK for scantily-clad women to get upset when men gaze upon them lustfully even though the women know that is exactly what is going to happen and may even want to happen.

  • Mickey Rat||

    " If we want women "to be taken seriously," we should, umm, take them seriously, and stop linking dignity to fabric."

    Swimwear is not something to be taken seriously in for either sex. Would any male be taken seriously if he showed up for an interview in a speedo rather than a suit? Certain situations call for certain modes of dress, it is called presentation, and it applies to everybody.

  • Hyperion||

    You see, this is why PM links don't work.

    I just got done fighting with the server folks, who as usual, are trying to give me less RAM and CPU for my new VM servers, than the software will run on, with even one user. And we have more than 1000 users. Fuck, the software will not even start up with what they are trying to give me. Why the fuck do they do this shit every fucking time? Server guys are like drummers, they serve a purpose but they are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

    Well, at least this time I was WFH and so I got to PM links before there were 300 posts. Now, WTF were we talking about?

  • William of Purple||

    DONT TALK SHIT ABOUT NEIL PEART

  • gaijin||

    But Bobby Blotzer, that's ok.

  • RBS||

    Demands for late night links.

  • William of Purple||

    DON'T TALK SHIT ABOUT ROGER TAYLOR

  • gaijin||

    Server guys are like drummers, they serve a purpose but they are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

    Hey now, that's a pretty broad brush you're workin' there!

  • SugarFree||

    1. A drummer continued to tour after losing an arm, shrugging it off like a lizard dropping its tail. They didn't even build him a robot arm, his job was so inconsequential.

    2. Meg White is considered a drummer.

    3. Drummers get less trim than bassists. Less. Than. Bassists.

  • Ted S.||

    Server guys are like drummers,

    You mean bagpipers.

  • Hyperion||

    Oh noes. There I go again, and this time I have collectivized drummers. I so bad.

  • Hyperion||

    An American college student in India says she suffered so much harassment and groping there that she developed post-traumatic stress disorder

    What really strikes me as odd about this... I mean we keep hearing about these heinous gang rapes in India, and all of this harassment of women. But the Indian guys I know, and have known here, are the nicest, most polite, mild mannered guys that I have never known.

    Must be something about environment.

  • Damned Fool||

    It's partly regional, I've heard. The North is worse than the South. In any case, I think it's mostly the less well-educated and less urbanized people who are doing this, so usually not the people moving to the US.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "The North is worse than the South."

    So, it's like the U.S.

  • Damned Fool||

    Heh. At least that's what the newspapers said there when I visited my relatives this summer. Then again, my family's from the least impoverished, most gender-equal part of the place, but I think it was a national paper.

  • Nazdrakke||

    So, Jersey?

  • ||

    I thought the same thing until I went to Mardi Gras on Bourbon st. Seriously, go to Mardi Gras. Tons of Indian guys, all in groups salivating and working up the nerve (aka getting piss drunk) until they can say lewd shit and grab the closest girl that flashes her tits.

    Not saying they're worse than you're typical white frat boy is, but the single white frat boy probably gets laid in America more often than the Indian guy does and the desperation shows once thrown into a place seemingly without rules - Bourbon St Mardi Gras.

  • Slammer||

    Bobby Jindal did WHAT?

  • Tonio||

    Indians in America tend to be better educated than Indians in India due to heavy use of H1B visas.

  • Hyperion||

    Well, all of the Indians I know here, or have known, all have HIB visas, except for the ones that are permanent rez now, or citizens. So maybe that's it.

    But they are all the nicest people ever. That's why it's so hard for me visualize Indians being these uncivilized rape mongers.

  • Hyperion||

    H1B. My type-os are really adding up today...

  • Rhywun||

    Indians in America tend to be better educated than Indians in India due to heavy use of H1B visas.

    Well, the non-Indians where I work are better-educated than most Americans but they sure aren't "nice" and "mild mannered" to anywhere near the same degree.

  • Invisible Finger||

    But the Indian guys I know, and have known here, are the nicest, most polite, mild mannered guys that I have never known.

    Might say more about our immigration policy than anything else.

  • ||

    70 year old Australian man shoves four inch fork up his penis

    A 70-year-old Canberra man came to an extraordinarily painful fork in the road when he presented to Canberra Hospital's Emergency Department with a 10cm fork lodged in his penis.

    The steel cutlery item was inserted into his urethra for his sexual gratification, a write-up in the International Journal of Surgery Case Reports said.

    It remains uncertain how the gentleman thought that could be achieved.

    The fork was not visible from the outside but doctors were able to feel it.

    "The motives for insertion of a variety of objects are difficult to comprehend", the report, titled An Unusual Urethral Foreign Body, said.

    I guess auto-erotic asphyxiation is going out of style.

  • William of Purple||

    This was on yesterday's AM LiNKSES

  • Andrew S.||

    I could have happily lived my own life without having to think of "70 year old man with 4 inch fork in his penis". I'm in pain now. Thanks a lot.

  • ||

    That's not a fork. That's a fork.

  • Goldwin Smith||

    Will that be reason's newest fetish?

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Reposting old links? That's been a Reason fetish for years.

  • NeonCat||

    I am really hoping he hoped to "flog the bishop" in front of his significant other who denies him sex, just so he could climax and have the fork shoot out as he screams "Well FORK YOU!"

    'Cause otherwise he's just crazy.

  • Hyperion||

    70 year old Australian man shoves four inch fork up his penis

    He's just getting the pain over with before the completely unhinged gubmit of Oz shoves something even more painful up his ass.

  • ||

    Hey! Corporation! Leave them kids alone!

    Unfortunately, Secretary Arne Duncan agrees that disruption is wonderful, so he applauds the idea of closing schools, opening new schools, inviting the for-profit sector to compete for scarce funds, and any other scheme that might disrupt schools as we know them.

    He does this believing that U.S. education is a failed enterprise and needs a mighty shaking-up.

    First, he is wrong to believe that U.S. public education is failing. That is untrue. I document that he is wrong in my new book, Reign of Error: The Hoax of the Privatization Movement and The Danger to America's Public Schools, using graphs from the U.S. Department of Education website.

    Second, "disruption" is a disaster for children, families, schools, and communities.

    Think of little children. They need continuity and stability, not disruption. They need adults who are a reliable presence in their lives. But, following the logic of the corporate reformers, their teachers must be fired, their school must be closed, everything must be "turned around" and brand new or the kids won't learn. No matter how many parents and children appear at school board meetings, no matter how much they plead for the life of their neighborhood school, the hammer falls and it is closed. This is absurd.

  • Goldwin Smith||

    When has anyone believed that US public schools weren't failing? Wasn't there a big panic about schools because of Sputnik?

  • Killazontherun||

    And rightly so. By the 50s, the nation's schools were deep into a second wave of social experimentation where parents were witnessing the decline of standards from their generation to the next first hand. My own grandmother complained about it.

  • RBS||

    "I document that he is wrong in my new book, Reign of Error: The Hoax of the Privatization Movement and The Danger to America's Public Schools, using graphs from the U.S. Department of Education website."

    That's Gold Jerry! Gold!

  • gaijin||

    They need adults who are a reliable presence in their lives.

    Generally speaking this role is played by parents

  • ||

    The State is all our parents, Comrade.

  • Killazontherun||

    They need to be coddled in the schools as the author recommends in order to become the fully disfunctional adults that will reliably vote for bigger and bigger benes for public instructors, gaijin. You can't get that through parental involvement alone.

  • ant1sthenes||

    And you can see, it wasn't what we thought. There's been no drug war here and no economic upheaval. The climate is stable. It's the PES. The Progressive Education System that we added to the schools. It was supposed to pacify the population, weed out initiative. Well, it works. The people here gave up on living without the state. And then they gave up on everything else. They stopped going to work, they stopped raising their children, solving their own problems, eating healthy food. There's 300 million people here, and they all just let themselves fail.

    About a tenth of a percent of the population had the opposite reaction to the PES. Their aggressor response increased beyond madness. They have become... Well, they've killed most of us, because they were bored. And not just killed... they've done things...

    I won't live to report this, but people have to know. We meant it for the best... to make people statists.

  • Cassius||

    I'm frankly amazed that Serenity/Firefly didn't turn more scifi nerds into libertarians because the entire series is basically anti-statism 101.

  • ||

    All your kids are belong to us.

    /Melissa Harris-Perry

  • Invisible Finger||

    They need adults who are a reliable presence in their lives.

    Nice to see they've gone from "positive presence" to merely a "reliable presence".

  • Doctor Whom||

    Think of adolescents. When they misbehave, we say they are "disruptive." Now we are supposed that their disruptive behavior represents higher order thinking.

    But no one can learn when one student in a class of thirty is disruptive.

    Holy fallacy of equivocation, Batman!

  • MJGreen||

    Think of little children. They need continuity and stability, not disruption. ... following the logic of the corporate reformers, their teachers must be fired, their school must be closed

    Uhh... they have different teachers every year, don't they? They often switch schools/campuses as they advance, right?

  • ant1sthenes||

    hey need adults who are a reliable presence in their lives.

    Is this person living on some planet where kids stick with a single teacher for 12 years or something? They go through twelve sets in twelve years, you really think one more switch is going to traumatize them?

  • Invisible Finger||

    If I knew I was going to have my first grade teacher for 12 years, I probably would have murdered her in third grade. She gave idiots a bad name.

    My third grade teacher wasn't much better. When she found out I was getting assignments done faster than anyone else, she asked me to help the struggling students. I fell for it for about 20 minutes. Then when she noticed I wanted noting to do with the struggling students she finally got off her wrinkly ass and did her job.

  • Killazontherun||

    My third grade teacher was likely a genuine communist. We learned a lot of folk tunes in her class from that misbegotten era, and it came as a shock to me how familiar the Internationale sounded to me. She HAD to have played it in class.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    More Louisiana Republicans blame Obama for inadequate 2005 Hurricane Katrina response than they do Bush.

    http://livewire.talkingpointsm.....sponse-was

  • ||

    I don't think you'll have any argument here on the intelligence of voters.

  • Agammamon||

    Who the fuck cares what republicans think - we're not fucking republicans here idiot.

  • ant1sthenes||

    To be fair, if it was someone other than shriek and they posted some shit about Democrats, no one would say "We're not Democrats, go away." I'm sure shriek thinks the lady doth protest too much, but I suspect if he posted the same link under a different handle, without giving away that it was his alt, the reaction would be different.

  • Brett L||

    Detroit is in hopeless debt, college students are in hopeless debt, lets put them both together and have the Feds bail out everybody.

    Maybe it's time to try to yoke these two problems together and allow for partial loan forgiveness for people who commit to living in distressed communities for a set period of time. The rents in Detroit couldn't be cheaper, nor could houses, should anyone want to lay down deeper roots. Think of it as something akin to Washington's first-time-homebuyer tax credit, but available to renters, too, and accomplished through educational-debt reduction rather than the tax code.

  • wareagle||

    so why would college students with a small mountain of debt want to move to Detroit?

  • Anonymous Coward||

    I had just sold my first apartment, which I'd bought in Dupont Circle in 2000 on pretty much the lowest possible income you could make and buy a place in Washington, D.C., in what turned out to be the waning days of the era when you could afford to buy tiny apartments in Dupont Circle on such salaries. Three years of piecemeal renovations later, I sold it for enough that that I was able to turn around after settlement and write the largest check I've ever written, then or since, to the U.S. Department of Education, for the full amount I owed.

    This says more about the overinflated housing prices in D.C. than it does the wisdom of her plan to use Detroit as cross between penal transportation and indentured servitude.

  • gaijin||

    accomplished through educational-debt reduction rather than the tax code.

    What the heck does that even mean?

  • Agammamon||

    It means he doesn't want working, productive people to live there, only idiots who spent $100,000 on a hindu literature degree and so have no way of paying the money off to live there.

    I guess he's hoping Starbucks will open a barista training institute in Detroit since there'll be so many potential baristas filling the population.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Sounds like a Free State project for socialists. As if Michigan isn't already one.

  • Enough About Palin||

    Quick Question:

    I have a Pioneer amp/receiver from the 1970's. The speakers are shot, but the amp works great. I have an opportunity to get a free set of speakers and a subwoofer. Will this new stuff be compatible with a 40-year-old amp?

  • Hyperion||

    I still remember my old pioneer amp/receiver and Utah speakers in the 70s... But I do remember the hookup to the speakers was just 2 copper wires. That's a good question, but I don't know.

  • Enough About Palin||

    Yes, 2 copper wires, but that's workable; just snip off the jacks. I just don't want to damage either the speakers or amp.

  • Brett L||

    Almost certainly.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Probably, but I don't what he'll do with the subwoofer.

    Impedance of the other two speakers has to match the amp's.

    A Pioneer from the 70's is probably 8 ohm.

  • Invisible Finger||

    The FCC makes sure everything is compatible.

  • Brett L||

    Of 11 people charged under the 1917 Espionage Act 8 have happened under Obama.

  • Goldwin Smith||

    I guess he is a true Progressive after all.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Comrade Obama faces an onslaught of wreckers, kulaks, and counterrevolutionaries.

    He's doing the best he can.

  • Killazontherun||

    Are you referring to the obstructionist who wrecked the communist state and whose intellectual heirs are now doing the same to the American nation?

  • Anonymous Coward||

    An American college student in India says she suffered so much harassment and groping there that she developed post-traumatic stress disorder.


    You be the judge. Would you grope it?

  • Goldwin Smith||

    People will grope/rape anything.

  • ||

    No, but that's more because I don't believe in assaulting women (or anybody) by groping them unless they ask me to.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Non-verbal asking? Looking at you asking?

  • ||

    Being female asking.

  • Killazontherun||

    Asking is an odd way of flirting. Like playing the fiddle with gloves on. Doesn't work. Inch in to personal space, if the conversation is going well, she is reciprocal and comfortable, you make a move. It's about timing. If she hasn't moved away in thirty minutes, its a done deal. Under, and it's rape.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Grope, no.

    Poorly flirt with her to try to get into her hippie britches? Yes,

  • Killazontherun||

    In college, definitely. I was horny for a lot of things and she's highly representative of one type.

  • Brandon||

    Even though I appreciated his performance in the Harry Potter movies, no, I would not grope.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    A St. Louis Planned Parenthood clinic called an ambulance for one of its patients. It cares so much about women they sought to block photographs. Alas, their caring for women didn't stop 19 other "medical emergencies" since 2009.

    This is the 32nd medical emergency at a PP clinic documented by Operation Rescue since January 2012.

    http://bit.ly/1d5HyOw

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Establishing basic medical standards at an abortion clinic is sexist, patriarchal and WAR ON WIMMINZ.

    P.S. I drive by that particular Planned Parenthood regularly.

  • ||

    A convicted murderer explains why he thinks gun control will work

    Government should also create a system that tracks gun-purchasing patterns. Credit-card companies already respond to irregular spending patterns—I used to shop with stolen credit cards, and when the employee at the register said, “I have to call the company,” I knew the jig was up. Similarly, it should raise red flags when a person who has never bought a gun suddenly buys five handguns. If the buyer is, for example, purchasing the guns for a drug dealer in the parking lot, he or she will be shaken if the sales clerk says something like, “We have to call and document this purchase with a new agency.”

    Likewise, it’s bizarre that the bazaars selling guns aren’t regulated. Websites like Armslist.com provide a buffet of leads for charismatic criminals to buy guns from private sellers. These sites are like perpetual gun shows, which are truly the ultimate forums to make connections for criminals who blend in well -- like me.

    Bottom line, criminals create an indirect demand for gun manufacturers and merchandisers. For most criminals, purchasing a gun isn’t a one-shot deal. I had two separate gun-possession charges before I killed with an assault rifle. These are my convictions, but they hardly represent the number of guns I went through during my criminal career.

  • ||

    I’m where I belong. But without a gun I would not have killed. Like most misguided, impulsive youth in America, I was emotionally and socially retarded, with a killing machine on my waist. The gun sector and I do not share the same culpability. Hardly. It’s unethical, however, for stakeholders of Sturm, Ruger and Smith & Wesson to contest oversight that would prevent arming individuals like me. Hiding behind manipulative interpretations of the Second Amendment and arguments crafted by the gun lobby, which suggest that the panacea is to enrich our moral fiber, is no help. God knows I’d support moral reform -- but fixing moral decay is a tall order. Meanwhile, our free-market gun culture is out of control. Let’s fix that. Now.

    Congress needs to take up gun control again when members return to Washington in September. This debate isn’t going away. “The world is watching the United States Senate, and we will be held accountable,” Connecticut Democrat Richard Blumenthal, one of the senators at the helm of gun-control efforts, said after the bill stalled this spring. Perhaps it’s too utilitarian or oversimplified, but as a nation we’re left with the following question: Is the benefit of experiencing that surge of power, which some individuals get from sport shooting, worth the cost of unhealthy individuals, like me, experiencing a similar surge of power while they swiftly and cowardly shoot people?

  • CatoTheElder||

    Sounds like somebody smart enough to impress a parole board well in advance of the parole hearing.

  • Killazontherun||

    I like where you are going with that. On his release, there should be an NRA escort at the gate ready to take his sociopathic liberal manipulating ass where it needs to go.

  • CatoTheElder||

    The confessed murderer knows that this little essay will look good at the parole hearing.

    That is all.

  • Irish||

    Didn't they do the same thing with some guy who had been convicted of grand larceny?

    Come on, guys! Why won't you take the word of criminals that gun control is a great idea!

  • ||

    Even better is that plenty of criminals including mobsters have gone on record saying they love gun control because it disarms potential victims while they just ignore it.

  • Goldwin Smith||

    I think I read something from "Sammy the Bull" Gravano saying something similar?

  • ||

    Yes, I do believe Gravano was one of those who said it.

  • Goldwin Smith||

    I found all the pro-control stuff in GTA IV hilarious since the games are all about criminals buying weapons from underground weapons dealers and using them to kill and rob people.

  • ||

    it should raise red flags when a person who has never bought a gun suddenly buys five handguns.

    Of course it wouldn't be that simple and clear cut. I guarantee a red flag will be raised when one, single gun is purchased by a first time buyer.

    Even if it was this clear cut, I know people who have bought multiple guns in a matter of days or inside a month. Fear of new gun legislation is usually why.

    In one case my friend bought 5 guns inside 2 months after his live in girlfriend and her son left and his well paying job was suddenly supporting only him again. Going shooting with him in two weekends and I can't fucking wait!

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Since when do we take advice from criminals? Oh, right, since we started listening to members of Congress.

    "I’m where I belong. But without a gun I would not have killed."

    When some killer tells the judge that his porno addiction led to his crimes, the proggies roll their eyes. Yet they'll eat up this rationalization, which comes so close to guns-made-me-do-it as to be largely indistinguishable.

  • Hyperion||

    Yeah, it's pretty much only criminals who support gun control. And most of them just happen to be in Congress.

  • Goldwin Smith||

    Lee Harvey Oswald supporting gun control by the way. Except for himself obviously.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    I was emotionally and socially retarded

    And naturally, we should tailor the law to excuse the lowest common denominator. Because expecting you to behave like a civilized human being and not an "emotional and social retard" is a bridge too far.

  • Goldwin Smith||

    Speaking of Germany what is the position of the SDP, Greens and Left over the bailouts?

  • ||

    WaPo: The price Gina Gray for following whistleblower rules shows how full of it Obama is

    Gray is the Defense Department whistleblower whose case I have been following for five years. She was the Army civilian worker who, before and after her employment, exposed much of the wrongdoing at Arlington National Cemetery — misplaced graves, mishandled remains and financial mismanagement — and she attempted to do it through the proper internal channels. Pentagon sources have confirmed to me her crucial role in bringing the scandal to light.

    For her troubles, Gray was fired. The Pentagon’s inspector general recommended corrective action to compensate Gray.

    According to documents just obtained by Gray’s lawyer, Mark Zaid, Army Secretary John McHugh rejected the inspector general’s suggestion. McHugh wouldn’t offer Gray anything because she was on “probationary status at the time of her termination.”

    Gray, who worked in Iraq as an Army contractor and Army public affairs specialist, is now unemployed and living in North Carolina.

    “I went all the way up the channels,” Gray told me on Tuesday. “This is what happens when you do that.”

    If you see something, carefully weigh whether or not you're willing to kill your career before saying something.

  • ||

    Message sent to all other potential within-the-rules whistleblowers, loud and clear. Which is exactly what the administration wanted.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Doing the right thing is a good way to kill your career. The government is not interested in doing what is right. They are in the business of doing the most profitable harm to the people least likely to successfully resist.

  • ||

    SPLC accuses Ron Paul of giving a keynote address at North America's largest gathering of anti-Semites

    In early September, the men are all scheduled to speak – along with a lengthy list of archconservative clergy, lawyers and academics – at a conference in Canada sponsored by the Fatima Center, part of the “radical traditionalist Catholic” movement, perhaps the single largest group of hard-core anti-Semites in North America.

    Paul, the former Texas congressman and Republican presidential candidate, is the keynote speaker of the weeklong conference slated for Sept. 8-13 in Niagara Falls, Ontario. A physician before entering politics, Paul got into considerable hot water in 2008 when The New Republic published “Angry White Man,” an article about the contents of newsletters he published. What the newsletters revealed, the magazine reported, “are decades worth of obsession with conspiracies, sympathy for the right-wing militia movement, and deeply held bigotry against blacks, Jews and gays.” Paul denied writing the newsletters that bore his name.

    The conference is titled, “Fatima: The Path to Peace” and “is a call,” according to a Fatima Center press release, “to a return to sanity in the government of the world and the Church, for the two cannot be separated.”

  • Goldwin Smith||

    “radical traditionalist" Catholics calling themselves Fatima?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Remember when the Fatima Center published this "Hate Map" of "locations "radical organizations," and a Catholic terrorist used the map to locate the SPLC headquarters and try to massacre the people there, being stopped in the nick of time by an alert guard?

    No, wait, I'm thinking of the would-be mass-murderer who used an *SPLC* "Hate Map" to target the Family Research Council. My bad.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Ron Paul spoke at the NAACP?

  • Libertymike||

    He's okay with colored folk.

  • Brett L||

    Mike Tyson plays the old NES Mike Tyson's Punch Out for the first time (25 years after first release).

  • Andrew S.||

    Maureen Dowd blatantly misquotes the wife of another NYC mayoral candidate to make it look like she's homophobic. Christine Quinn capitalizes. Proof shown that it was a blatant misquote, and in context, it was nowhere near homophobic. Christine Quinn says it was still homophobic, even though an idiot could see that it wasn't.

    http://politicker.com/2013/08/.....-misquote/

  • Goldwin Smith||

    Fake but accurate.

  • Pro Libertate||

    It's truthy.

  • Andrew S.||

    This was so bad that even Mother Jones and Jezebel were calling out Dowd (and Quinn!)

  • ||

    You really gotta get through the entire article before they give the full, correct quote. For crying out loud, you have to read the misquote three times before they reveal what she actually said. Even the correction and reporting on the biased misquote is horribly biased.

  • ||

    “I have a family. In my apartment, my wife and I, we’re a family,” she said, her voice cracking slightly. “Our 10 nieces and nephews and grand nieces and nephews, we’re a family. My father and I, Kim’s dad. we’re a family. When I took care of my mother when she was dying, that’s a family. Kim and I lost our mothers. People make personal decision, for medical reasons, all kinds of reasons, that go into why people do and don’t have children. And no one should comment about that and make it a political issue.”

    We need to make a meme of this a la 'Salty Ham tears'.

  • ||

    That's some hot Blue on Blue action. I find it quite amusing that we here in Houston (in the South!) already have a lesbian mayor and noone gives a shit about it.

  • Goldwin Smith||

    So which is better? This is the End or The World's End? The latter is British so it must be better.

  • ||

    I don't understand how anyone tolerate 10 minutes of Jonah Hill in his whiny, asshole persona. Ditto for Seth Rogen's schtick.

    Simon Pegg and Nick Frost are brilliant comedians and I like forward to seeing that.

  • ||

    I don't understand how anyone tolerate 10 minutes of Jonah Hill in his whiny, asshole persona.

    That was actually part of the plot.

  • ||

    Really? I haven't seen it. I'll probably like it a lot if the premise is them making fun of their personas.

    I'll give it a look when it comes out on DVD.

  • ||

    I'll probably like it a lot if the premise is them making fun of their personas.

    A lot of it is. Franco is all fancy and artsy and shit, Hill is a self-absorbed prick, etc

    One of the first lines of the movie is a passerby asking Rogen to do his stupid laugh.

  • Irish||

    This is the End is pretty damn funny. Michael Cera is hilarious in that role.

  • ||

    Go read the review at Deadspin. The whole point is that the actors make fun of their own personas and perceived public personas. It actually sounds quite hilarious.

  • ||

    This is the End was really funny. Haven't seen the other one.

  • ||

    The World's End comes out Friday.

  • Goldwin Smith||

    When I first saw the ads for The World's End I was all like "Didn't this movie already come out?"

  • BakedPenguin||

    Yeah. It's sad, given how great Shaun of the Dead was, how nothing else Simon Pegg has done has come close.

  • MJGreen||

    I've actually heard good things about This is the End, but The World's End is Simon Pegg and Edgar Wright. I suspect it will be my favorite movie of the year.

  • Mike M.||

    So has Block Insane Yomomma publicly shot off his big stupid mouth yet about the horrible killing of the Aussie baseball player like he did right away about the Cambridge police department incident or Trayvon Martin?

    Gee, I wonder why that is. Let's not all strain our brains on it too much!

  • Brandon||

    Fuck off, moron.

  • Mike M.||

    Stick it in your earhole, you cosmo dipshit.

  • Brandon||

    Right, you can't make a single comment without a racist remark or an ad hom, and I'm a dipshit.

  • Mike M.||

    No racist remark was made. Take your liberal bullshit and go use it on someone else; I'm not one of your fucking students.

  • Sevo||

    So SF has a replacement bridge to Oakland nearly complete, 'bout 5 years late and I've lost track of how far over budget. And then, courtesy of some poorly-written specs, some of the seismic-proofing hardware, buried in concrete, is breaking. Now the POS is largely the result of two breath-taking egos, both of which have slopped at the public trough for nearly their entire lives; Willy and Jerry Brown.
    Anyhow, the bridge is going to open after the labor-day weekend, which they're using to connect the bridge to the old roadways.
    So who's going to "open" it? They can't find anyone. Mooonbeam says he wants to spend time with his family (really! See the link). Willy Brown seems to have disappeared from the face of the earth.
    "Governor will skip Bay Bridge opening"
    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/.....747645.php

  • PapayaSF||

    The Empire State Building was built in 15 months.

  • Sevo||

    Yeah, the Brown bros weren't there.

  • Bam!||

    Manhattan Project was only 30 months.

    Took two years to create the SR-71 Blackbird.

    We went to the moon in eight years.

  • Goldwin Smith||

    The bigger government gets the less efficient it gets. Ironic, like how Big Government can't really plan anything.

  • PapayaSF||

    The prototype P-51 Mustang rolled out 102 days after the contract was signed, and flew about five weeks after that.

    The first prototype Jeep was designed and built within 49 days, by a bankrupt company that had to convince a freelance designer to do the job.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    http://www.firstthings.com/blo.....hristians/

    "The Persecution of Egypt’s Christians

    "Mark Movsesian

    "...Outside observers may wonder why the Islamists are doing this. From a practical point of view, isn’t burning churches a waste of time and energy? Why spend resources attacking Christians when the military is hunting you down?

    "There are three answers. First, Islamists attack Christians because they can. Christian churches, monasteries, and schools are soft targets...

    "Second, the Coptic Church has taken an uncharacteristically strong stand in support of the military. Coptic Pope Tawadros appeared in the video announcing the overthrow of the Morsi regime in July–as did the Sheikh of Al-Azhar, it should be noted– and last week, he endorsed the military’s crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood....

    "Third, one must recognize the perception Islamists have of Christians....For Christians to assert equality with Muslims, or cooperate with Muslims’ enemies, is, in classical thought, a grave affront to the community which must be punished–a declaration of war..."

  • Stormy Dragon||

    and last week, he endorsed the military’s crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood....

    So if the MB's goons kill dozens of Copts, that's horrifying, but if the Coptic Church's goons kill hundreds of MB members, that okay, because the Coptic Church's goons have fancy Egyptian Army uniforms.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I don't know how many Coptic "goons" are in the Egyptian army. Certainly they're not in a position to influence policy:

    "The morally reprehensible inaction of Egypt’s allegedly “secular” army—failing to protect its hapless and beleaguered Coptic minority—heightens concerns over the direction of this institution under a demonstrably anti-secular leader, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi. In a detailed analysis of al-Sisi’s 2006 US Army War College mini-thesis—which had to be obtained via a Freedom of Information Act request—I demonstrated that he is vociferously opposed to the kind of Western secular consensus model of government Egypt so desperately requires. Moreover, al-Sisi’s mini-thesis also espoused ardent Sharia-supremacist views, highlighted by his lionization of the classical Islamic Caliphate system."

    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013.....s-matters/

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I did a Google search, and the only relevant reference to Coptic soldiers, or Copts in the Egyptian military, was in some Arabic-language site claiming to show Coptic soldiers beating up some woman, but not knowing Arabic, I didn't see the evidence for their claim that Copts were involved.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    And the Egyptian military has pledged to rebuild Coptic churches burned by MB rebels - I wonder why the Copts support their country's military over Copt-killing fanatics?

  • Stormy Dragon||

    The Copt supports the army violent cracking down on the MB. The soldiers are the Copt's goon whether they are themselves copts.

    We have two sects here, both of which want apparently want to kill everyone in the other sect. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to see one as morally superior than the other.

  • ant1sthenes||

    How the shit does that work? Were Union soldiers the goons of Confederate slaves? Does that mean slaves are morally responsible for the war crimes they committed?

    Speaking kindly of a powerful group who is presently kicking the ass of evil bastards who oppress you doesn't mean that group works for you, or make you in significant way morally responsible for that group's actions.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    The fact the Islamic militants of unidentified affiliation are attacking Copts in rural areas doesn't justify mowing down hundreds of protestors in Cairo. If the army is so worried about protecting Copts, why aren't they out where they're being attacked trying to defend them, rather than mucking about Cairo cracking down on their political opponents?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "doesn't justify mowing down hundreds of protestors in Cairo."

    Which is hardly what the Coptic patriarch said. As between the MB and the govt, he goes with the govt.

    I have no idea if the atrocity stories of peaceful flower-children skipping down the streets of Cairo and then getting mowed down by thuggish soldiers, are true. I mean, it *is* the Middle East, so it *could* have happened that way. It's also possible (this being the Middle East) that the MB is playing the Western media like a fiddle the way the KLA did in Kosovo.

    "Islamic militants of unidentified affiliation"

    If (as you indicate below) they are retaliating against the Copts for attacking the MB, that would suggest these "unidentified" attackers are at the very least MB sympathizers.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "for attacking the MB"

    I mean, for the Egyptian army attacking the MB.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    I have no idea if the atrocity stories of peaceful flower-children skipping down the streets of Cairo and then getting mowed down by thuggish soldiers, are true.

    It being the middle east, I imagine they're all murderous savages, so my problem is less with "the MB are evil bastards" then with the willingless to handwave the Egyptian Army being just as evil-bastardly.

  • Redmanfms||

    The Copt supports the army violent cracking down on the MB. The soldiers are the Copt's goon whether they are themselves copts.

    We have two sects here, both of which want apparently want to kill everyone in the other sect. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to see one as morally superior than the other.

    Remember how I told you I was going to inform you when you posted prog bullshit?

    Well, THIS IS PROG BULLSHIT. Some peak derp level moral equivocating.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    And as I suspected, progtard == anyone who doesn't share your neocon warboner.

  • ant1sthenes||

    I was under the impression they were a pretty small minority (10% or so), that just happens to be blamed and attacked whenever things go wrong, and who (in spite of all evidence) are assumed by some paranoids to wield vast, secret political power. Which sounds like nothing and no one else in history, ever.

    Anyway, how is it surprising? If the German military cracked down on the brownshirts before they really got established, you'd probably find a lot of pro-military Jews in Germany too. Can you blame them?

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Suppose Obama ordered the military to machine gun a Tea Party protest and killed 600 people. Would you be surprised if the week after there were attacks against people going around saying how great they though it was? If Obama then went "see, they're all just anti-government extremist" and started arresting anyone previously involved with the Tea Party, would you be applauding because he's protecting us from evil bastards?

  • Sevo||

    You had it here:
    "We have two sects here, both of which want apparently want to kill everyone in the other sect. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to see one as morally superior than the other."
    None of this is worth another thought; bleevers in sky-daddy one want to kill bleevers in sky-daddy two.
    Bleevers in one or the other think it matters. It doesn't; they'll kill each other until they figure out there is no sky-daddies. Fuck 'em.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    The Copts want to kill Muslims? If that's so, why didn't they manifest there murderous tendencies previously in Egyptian history?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    It seems that some of the sky-daddy-ites are on the same side, with Muslims of good will *helping their Christian neighbors:*

    “Our people are close to normal Muslims, moderate Muslims,” [Bishop Kyrillos Kamal William Samaan of Assiut] said. “When the fundamentalists came for the Christians in [Assiut’s] Old Town, the Muslims sent them away using arms.”

    “In other cities, Christians and Muslims came to protect churches and they stayed next to the churches all day,” he added."

    http://www.catholicculture.org.....ryid=18782

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    But gosh, go on with the moral equivalence; it's fascinating.

  • Sevo||

    Eduard van Haalen| 8.21.13 @ 10:35PM |#
    "But gosh, go on with the moral equivalence; it's fascinating."

    To be clear, I really don't give a shit about one bleever claiming victimhood from the other bleever this week. 'Cause next week the bleevers on the other side will be beating on the first bleevers. All because of voices in their heads; not one single shred of evidence.
    I'm tired of listening to stupid people debate whether mythical creatures said one thing or another and then asking for sympathy 'cause they're stupid.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Again, many Muslims went and *helped the Christians* against the MB folks, not because they believed in the Christian "sky daddy" but because they wanted to help their neighbors out in a really bad situation. And even - horrors - because they interpreted their religious tenets as endorsing such aid to their Christian brethren.

    But that can't be the case, because religious believers are always warlike, unlike peaceful secularists like Josef Stalin.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    (Let me guess, Communism is a religion, too?)

  • Sevo||

    "The Copts want to kill Muslims? If that's so, why didn't they manifest there murderous tendencies previously in Egyptian history?"

    Uh, so the copts represent the sky daddy of peace?

  • Stormy Dragon||

    The Copts want to kill Muslims? If that's so, why didn't they manifest there murderous tendencies previously in Egyptian history?

    The last time the copts were in charge they DID manifest their murderous tendencies. The murder of Hypatia? The burning of the Serapeum?

    As for why they haven't recently, it should be noted that a lack of capability isn't the same thing as the lack of desire.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    OK, those are fair points. They killed that poor philosopher-ess and burned that temple - and I suppose I could add some anti-Jewish riots and internecine strife, too.

    It was, however, about 1.5 millennia ago. I think that's time enough to mellow out a bit.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Those weren't just two isolated attacks. There were just the two most notable attacks of a long running campaign that largely exterminated the pagan religions of Egypt.

    And maybe they have mellowed since, but since they've been a minority most of that time, it's hard to say how much of that is actually mellowing and how much is just not being able to get away with it.

    Although it should be noted they seem happy to have the Egyptian Military crush all political opposition, regardless of whether or not it's militant.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    It's too bad that Stormy Dragon wasn't around eighty years ago to defend the poor German volk being attacked by the perfidious jooos.

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