T-Paw Surprises With Best Speech of Cal GOP Confab

If you were looking for somebody to say last rites for a political party, former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty would be the logical choice. His aged-but-unlined face, patiently pedantic affect and low-blood-pressure delivery all give Pawlenty the air of an amiable parish priest. 

But after a grueling California Republican Party convention dominated by doubts about the continuing viability of the Golden State’s GOP, Pawlenty’s final-night speech to about 200 party faithful turned out to be the only address that fit the occasion. Rather than denying or rationalizing the party’s looming extinction in the country’s most populated state, the erstwhile Republican presidential candidate merely encouraged the depleted GOP to buck up.

After reciting a long history of Democratic–Farmer–Labor Party dominance in Minnesota – a history that stretches dismally from Hubert Humphrey and Eugene McCarthy through Walter Mondale and into the glorious present of Al Franken – Pawlenty concluded, “So don’t whine to me about how hard it is for Republicans in California.” 

Pawlenty has moved on from his defeat in the primary to become co-chairman of Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign, and that combination of blandsome political muscle generated just one good joke: Pawlenty proposed that his presidential campaign memoir be subtitled “All the way from Minnesota to Iowa.” But he makes as compelling a case for Romney as you’re likely to hear: that the former Massachusetts governor is a proven business success, that he has no hint of personal scandal, and that he has not “spent the bulk of his adult life in Washington or in a parasitic relationship with Washington.”

Given that the only extant presidential candidate at the GOP convention in the Bay Area was Freddie Mac historian Newt Gingrich (whose long and dismal lunchtime speech Saturday was eclipsed by a Ron Paul eruption outside the dining hall), the depiction of Romney as a political outsider was momentarily persuasive. 

But that’s the real problem for the Republicans. Aging, compromised, morally bankrupt RINOs are no longer just a subgroup within the party. They are the default setting of the party. This is especially true in California, where Republicans happily vilify Barack Obama and Jerry Brown but somehow can’t get around to opposing high-speed rail, fighting the cap and trade system that came in this year, or in any other serious way distinguishing themselves from the Democrats. Worse still, the GOP actually opposed Brown’s efforts to abolish redevelopment agencies

The Republicans’ inability to engage the Tea Party or the broader libertarian insurrection has been a problem everywhere, but in California, where the Tea Party never happened, the party of Reagan and Prop 13 has almost no libertarian mojo. Given the California GOP’s crisis of demographics and relevance, that’s a real problem. Pawlenty acknowledged as much in a conclusion that tried to embrace the range of conservatives from social cons and defense hawks through Tea Partiers and libertarians. “We don’t have a big enough Republican Party in California,” Pawlenty said, “to be throwing people overboard.” 

This captures the predicament of the California GOP. The party is marginal and becoming more so, but the leadership is deathly afraid of the one proven source of Republican energy and enthusiasm – because that source is considered too marginal. If the California Republicans continue distancing themselves from the libertarian movement, they will continue to suffer, and so will everybody else who has to live in a state where one party has absolute power and the other refuses to compete. 

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  • Lurker||

    yesssssss

  • Bill||

    Was this supposed to be a response to victory at 8:34 AM?

  • ||

    T-Paw Surprises

    I liked him better when he was just Diddy.

  • ||

    I liked you better when you were just a blogwhore with a dream.

  • ||

    Me not have a blog.
    Me just a poopy in ca.

  • ||

    Ignore her! IGNORE HER!!
    ARGGHHHHHH!

  • Lurker||

    Nope. I found this post commentless and decided to start the thread off on a high note. Maybe something witty, something thoughtful, perhaps even a limerick. It was a futile effort, and the result was the odd, hissing affirmation that you see above.

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Jeffersonian||

    Greek freighters back in port?

  • ||

    Ignore him! IGNORE HIM!!
    ARGGHHHHHH!

  • The Commentariat||

    But we can't.
    Would that it were so easy!

    [sob]

  • rectal||

    Ignoring me only gives me more strength

  • victory||

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  • ||

    Haven't you heard? Libertarians hate non-heterosexual non-whites. Chris Matthews said so.

  • ||

    We have an inferiority complex.

  • ||

    Another manic day coming on. Bring out the white coats, Cavanaugh!

  • ||

    Somebody needs a hug.

  • ||

    And somebody else needs a sleeper hold.

  • ||

    Don't make me come down there, sloopy.

  • ||

    ::rolls eyes::

    I'll e-mail you my address.

  • Randy||

    Hang on, Sloopy.

  • Nature Boy Rick Flair||

    And somebody else needs a sleeper hold.

    Whooo!!

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • The Commentariat||

    Fuck. We've gotten what we deserved.
    This sucks!

  • rectal||

    Deserve's got nothing to do with it.

  • ||

    Any bets on whether a Paulite wave is going to sweep the Californian GOP?

  • Crickets||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Xenocles||

    Let's ask the bird...

    *Sorry about the quality.

  • Ice Nine||

    Any bets on whether a Paulite wave is going to sweep the Californian GOP?

    More like a Paulite particle, I'm afraid.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    He should have told the Incans that it's halftime in America.

    Or, better yet, being from Minnesota, second intermission in California, after a period dominated by Paul forwards crashing the CAGOP net. Now let's just have a nice, quiet third period by the numbers, no surprises, so we can all go home.

  • ||

    fffuuuu basketball best sp0rt

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I suppose maybe if you have a squeaky shoe fetish or something.

  • ||

    Why do you hate black people?

  • ||

    You're funny!
    Will you be here all day?

  • ||

    Not on weekdays, since I work for a living.

  • ||

    You're funny!
    Will you be here all day?

    Please tell us that you won't.

  • ||

    Is that a threat or a challenge?
    I hope it's just a threat. I have shopping to do.

  • ||

    "He should have told the Incans that it's halftime in America."

    Fist, you fucking crack me up.

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • wef||

    Republican party to be destroyed?

    Faster, please.

    (Some movie says that the Mayans predicted this.)

  • Bill||

    Since I live in a state that will likely go Repub. it won't matter much, BUT, I'm beginning to think it might be better for libertarians to just not vote if Santorum or Romney get the nomination unless Paul gets his due. A Romney/Paul (or Paul/Romney) ticket would do the trick.

    We should show the GOP what happens when they ignore the growing youth base of the party and just allow Obama to decimate the economy so that he actually gets the blame when it goes south. How bad would it be for Obama to lose and then all the chickens of his economic policies (high inflation, huge debt, etc) come home to roost. And no, I'm not forgetting the huge role Bush and the GOP played in the run-up to this.

  • ||

    Ah, the logic that got us Obamacare. Got it.

  • ||

    Completely understand not voting for Romney or Santorum, but I would at least vote for Congress.

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • wareagle||

    I think with Romney, Paul gets his due. Nothing between the two would indicate otherwise. Romney is the one GOP candidate who has not trashed, marginalized, or otherwise treated Paul poorly. That alone does not make him great, but it is a fact. For me, the idea of a non-DC insider with an actual business track record sounds like, well, like something we have never had in the Oval before.

  • ||

    like something we have never had in the Oval before.

    What about George Washington? He wasn't a DC insider.

  • George Washington's Ghost||

    I am truly perturbed that this country's representatives have sullied my name over the last one hundred years or so.

  • ||

    He was part of that whole Mount Vernon-Monticello beltway. It may not have been the Orange Line yet, but you can be sure there was a bridle path connecting those places to Washington.

  • ||

    I wonder if that bridle path extended to Philadelphia, which housed the federal government for the bulk of his presidency. Or to New York, where he resided for about a third of his presidency.

  • ||

    Yeah, where he always made sure to attend Alexander Hamilton's cocktail parties.

  • Xenocles||

    It's still not the orange line. Monticello's well outside of the DC metro area.

  • cw||

    [...] just allow Obama to decimate the economy so that he actually gets the blame when it goes south.

    Don't count on it. The big media outlets like the NYT and WaPo will run op-eds claiming the Republicans somehow caused Obama to "fail." Even if gas goes to $4.50 a gallon and millions of mortgages remain underwater, Obama will still have a good chance of being reelected.

  • ||

    Even if gas goes to $4.50 a gallon

    Ooh, sweet. The price is going back down?

  • protefeed||

    You mean up 35 cents from the current price in Hawaii? Yes, that certainly limited Obama's victory margin here to just 75-25 or so last time around. If the price was lower, Obama would have won here in a landslide.

    /sarcasm

  • cw||

    Sorry, thinking locally; didn't bother to look up the national average. Gas here is $3.25 a gal.

    *cue shock and awe*

  • ||

    I live in central CA, and I paid $4.35 a gallon today. Where do you live that it's $3.25 a gallon?

  • AlmightyJB||

    They want to act like ideological purity > political viability when it comes to libertarianism but they jump on the socialism bus whenever it suits them.

  • protefeed||

    BUT, I'm beginning to think it might be better for libertarians to just not vote if Santorum or Romney get the nomination unless Paul gets his due.

    Ummm, there are other choices for libertarians other than the R or D nominees -- such as the actual Libertarian Party nominee, who is almost certain to be more libertarian than Ron Paul.

    Not voting is a crappy, ineffective way to express your displeasure at the R or D "choices".

  • Mr. FIFY||

    If only Democrats got destroyed in the process... now THAT, is progress.

  • Brian D||

    "Aging, compromised, morally bankrupt RINOs are no longer just a subgroup within the party. They are the default setting of the party. This is especially true in California, where Republicans happily vilify Barack Obama and Jerry Brown but somehow can’t get around to opposing high-speed rail, fighting the cap and trade system that came in this year, or in any other serious way distinguishing themselves from the Democrats. Worse still, the GOP actually opposed Brown’s efforts to abolish redevelopment agencies. "

    CAGOP: We want to spend like Democrats and tax like Republicans.

  • Maxxx||

    Thankfully, the republican party "leadership" will start dying off soon (of natural causes).

  • Christina||

    The GOP's hastening demise in CA is just a harbinger of what's to come to the rest of the country. Cali is always ahead of the curve after all. I want to see the GOP go the way of the Whigs and I think it will happen sooner rather than later. The question then becomes, who will take their place?

  • wareagle||

    who will take their place?
    -----------------------------
    if the result is what CA is likely to be for the foreseeable future - permanent Dem majorities that continue down the same path - it may not matter who replaces them. Ostensibly, it would be a party that actually works toward limited govt rather than merely talking about it. But, when nearly half the country has zero federal income tx liability and net takers outnumber net contributors, the presence of an alternative is more show than action.

  • ||

    Since California now has an open primary, it's going to be very strange. You can't get rid of political parties, but you sure as hell can screw up the process. Maybe the Dems will split into a Left-Brown and Not-Quite-So-Left-Newsome caucuses, or maybe everyone will just give up and we'll see 5% voter turnouts. But regardless the state is d00med.

  • ||

    The question then becomes, who will take their place?

    The way things are going, probably the Green Party.

  • Doktor Kapitalism||

    Roseanne Barr sure hopes so.

  • J||

    "The GOP's hastening demise in CA is just a harbinger of what's to come to the rest of the country."

    I think the demise of the GOP is due to the self-selection of demographics in CA. Liberals and progressives tend to flock to the state. The middle class is leaving in droves because their money goes a lot further in other states, and they vote GOP. The uber-rich stay, because they can afford it. The poor stay because they are more well looked after here then they would be in more conservative states. Those groups vote Dem. I don't think this particular phenomenon will happen in the rest of the country.

  • Christina||

    I live in Virginia, which used to be solidly red, until Obama turned it into a swing state. Or rather, all the liberals who have moved in from other states to work for the Leviathan turned us into a swing state. They move to VA instead of MD because we have lower taxes. But now we're seeing state politics turn more liberal what with things like a smoking ban in restaurants. And the state's GOP has responded by doubling down on social issues like trying to require trans-vaginal sonograms before abortions.

  • Robert||

    I think you mean doubling up. If they doubled down, they'd be promising to go no farther.

  • Christina||

    That's adorable. You know less about gambling than I do. No, I meant doubling down.

  • Jeffersonian||

    The question then becomes, who will take their place?

    I think this will depend largely on the Central State's response to the inevitable implosion Blue policies will bring to CA. If CA is bailed out, the Democrats will reign supreme for decades there, insulated from the effects of their irresponsibility. If CA is allowed, however, to suffer the just consequences of decades of foolish and cynical political plunder of its vast natural and human resources, then I see a wide opening for an alternative.

    Which brings us to the useless gaggle known as the CAGOP.

    If their every response to CADEM proposal to burn down the capitol building is to phase in the conflagration over three years, they justly deserve the extinction they will get. If, OTOH, they actually can formulate a workable set of policies to cure the ills brought on by the Dems, then they have a chance when the SHTF.

  • Christina||

    Cali will be bailed out, no question. It's too big to fail.

  • Jeffersonian||

    It's too important to not bail out. Failure is required of failed policy.

  • Christina||

    Who's going to let them fail? The Obama administration? The gonad-challenged Republicans? No, it's in everyone's (short-term) interests to keep Cali afloat.

  • protefeed||

    The GOP's hastening demise in CA is just a harbinger of what's to come to the rest of the country. Cali is always ahead of the curve after all. I want to see the GOP go the way of the Whigs and I think it will happen sooner rather than later. The question then becomes, who will take their place?

    Naw, Hawaii is the harbinger of where we're headed: minority white electorate, 90% Democratic legislature, rampant statism.

    But, hot hapa chicks, so not all bad. :)

  • Christina||

    You must not believe Ron Bailey when he says that soon we'll all be considered white.

    http://reason.com/archives/201.....ority-2050

  • Outside Observer||

    It probably wasn't such a good idea to forcibly eject Ron Paul supporters the way they did, huh?

    Please put quotes around "historian" when referring to Newt's Freddie Mac job. I understand you can't just call him a lobbyist without fear of a vengeful lawsuit, but for god's sake stop legitimizing his "historian" bull!

  • JohnD||

    Do you even know what a lobbyist is? Apparently not.

  • ||

    There is a difference between a "registered lobbyist" and just plain helping lobbying groups, which is what most people mean when they say "lobbyist." Despite not being within the legally defined "registered lobbyist" group, most people would consider Gingrich, as well as other people who HELP lobbying groups, to be "lobbyists." If anything the law inaccurately describes what "lobbyists" are.

  • ||

    The Paul supporters claim they voluntarily left the building.

  • ||

    We got photos of peacefully talking to police. Someone did call the police, but they did not tell us to leave after we explained the situation. We then voluntarily moved outdoors.

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150634731699438.412112.130226984437

  • protefeed||

    It probably wasn't such a good idea to forcibly eject Ron Paul supporters the way they did, huh?

    The smart thing would have been to welcome the Paul supporters into the convention with open arms, have some speakers from his campaign give talks praising his policies ...

    but, what can you expect from the CA GOP, which pursues brain-dead policies vilifying hispanic immigrants, thus pissing off a vast and growing chunk of the electorate that will likely compose the majority of the state's residents in 50 years or so?

  • Billy||

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  • Jerry Sandusky||

    You cheating little whore.

  • ||

    I went to [[[[[[[casualmingle dot'c-o-m]]]]] but the internet broke.

  • ||

    erstwhile

  • JohnD||

    Anyone that uses cutesy names like J-Lo or T-Paw, doesn't deserve to be read.

  • ||

    If he'd gone around calling himself "T-Paw", he would have polled at least five points higher than he did.

  • George Costanza||

    "T-Bone" would have ruled.

  • ||

    Sorry, but we gave that name to Watkins.

  • ||

    Fine, he can be Koko the Monkey.

  • Um||

    Koko the Monkey

    Wasn't Koko...a black woman?

  • ||

    Koko was a gorilla who loved William Shatner.

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Mike M.||

    Everyone always gets carried away with this "the republican party is dead" rubbish whenever they lose. There sure was plenty of that going around after '08, and just two years later they kicked the democrats fucking teeth out of their heads.

    As for California, who the hell cares. Let the dems fully own the destruction of that hopeless place.

  • robc||

    just two years later they kicked the democrats fucking teeth out of their heads.

    Except in CA.

  • ||

    California's been in worse shape before.

    It isn't hopeless. The California GOP may be hopeless, but I don't see any reason to equate the hopelessness of one political party with the hopelessness of the state.

    It's not like politicians of either party are the solution to our problems anyway.

    Hell, China in the '70s was worse off than California is, and anybody who thought that situation was hopeless was just plain wrong.

    You should buy yourself a copy of Gillespie and Welch's book. ...or start a business or somethin'. It'll make you feel better.

  • ||

    Ken, do Chinese kids need to secure 2 or 3 different permits prior to opening up a lemonade stand?

    Let's not kid ourselves, let's not delude ourselves, the US is not the freest place on the planet - not by a longshot.

  • ||

    In China, Back in the '70s?

    Kids could be sent to a reeducation camp to do forced labor for years--because they opened a lemonade stand.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.....and_purges

    California was worse off in the '70s than we are now, too. We have whole new tech industries in Silicon Valley now that didn't exist before--not to mention all the biotech in San Diego now.

    Unemployment is a higher now than in the '70s, but inflation was a lot higher then, too. Unemployment was a lot worse in the early '80s than it is now, and the inflation rate was in double digits!

    It used to be that we couldn't trade with half the world because it was communist.

    We've seen much worse. We deregulated, formed trade agreements, and slashed taxes. We need to do all of that again.

    Things were much worse than they are now before we wised up, but it's not hopeless.

  • ||

    California was worse off in the '70s than we are now, too. We have whole new tech industries in Silicon Valley now that didn't exist before--not to mention all the biotech in San Diego now.

    Agree with the general argument, but this part is merely about replacing one type of industry with another. California used to have a ton of defense and aerospace companies, for example.

    Changing the particular mix of companies is not obviously cause for optimism. The causes lie elsewhere.

  • ||

    California used to have a ton of defense and aerospace companies, for example.

    Almost all the design work for the defense industry is still done out of San Diego.

    And that aircraft area around El Segundo? That was creative destruction.

    I was in the South Bay when all those aerospace workers found themselves unemployed in the early '90s--most of them found better work in the tech industry.

    Those biotech jobs in San Diego probably aren't going anywhere. You can't replace that kind of innovation and R&D with cheap labor overseas.

  • ||

    I was in the South Bay when all those aerospace workers found themselves unemployed in the early '90s--most of them found better work in the tech industry.

    Remember that "Falling Down" movie about the laid off aerospace worker in LA?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_Down

    LA in the mid to late '90s was so good, people forget about how bad it was in the early '90s.

    If that guy was a real person, and he'd stuck it out instead of going postal? He'd have ended up making a bundle working for the tech or entertainment industry. El Segundo turned into a yuppie town right in front of my eyes!

  • ||

    El Segundo turned into a yuppie town right in front of my eyes!

    That reminds me: Enjoy!

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Christina||

    I gotsta get it. I got-gotsta get it.

  • ||

    Yes, that's my point. I would just put the stress on the ability to make the necessary changes.

    Talking about new industries (and new jobs) tends to be misleading. The point is the vitality and capability of switching to something new. But most creation is accompanied by destruction.

    The point, as you say, is to replace with something better.

  • ||

    Those biotech jobs in San Diego probably aren't going anywhere. You can't replace that kind of innovation and R&D with cheap labor overseas.

    Eh, but you can certainly replace them with Americans-- perhaps the same Americans-- doing them somewhere other than San Diego or California. (And that's okay-- what we should care about is people, not places.)

    California's internal migration numbers have not been all that positive.

  • ||

    Eh, but you can certainly replace them with Americans-- perhaps the same Americans-- doing them somewhere other than San Diego or California.

    There's a clustering effect for small startups like that, around Biotech Beach and elsewhere. It's a little bit like the advantage of being a small retailer in a mall. It's just that industries like biotech are clustering for access to talent rather than shoppers.

    Researchers around MIT, for instance, can deal with Massachusetts' high taxation; it's the textile mills that worry about competing against other states (and countries) where the employees don't pay so much in taxes.

    Biotech isn't like a factory where you can just pull it up and hire warm bodies somewhere else.

    So, I don't think state taxation or fiscal issues will hurt the entertainment industry, Silicon Valley or the huge biotech industry in Southern California much.

  • Christina||

    A lot of filming for TV takes place in Canada and states like North Carolina. Those Hollywood producers might write their political donation checks to Democrats but they sure as shit know better than to deal with Teamsters if they can avoid it.

  • ||

    I appreciate that a lot of filming is done in Canada.

    If Hollywood is having issues with its profits though? Filming in Canada isn't part of the problem.

    That would be like saying that Wal*Mart is in trouble because it keeps its costs low by getting its inventory from China.

    If young people in Canada want to make it big in the entertainment industry? I suggest moving to Hollywood. That's where the action is.

    There's a whole lot more to the entertainment industry in Hollywood than doing on location shoots.

  • ||

    Those biotech jobs in San Diego probably aren't going anywhere. You can't replace that kind of innovation and R&D with cheap labor overseas.

    Because as we all know, the US education system is a math & science powerhouse that produces the best scientists in the world.

    Newsflash: the best scientists and technology workers produced by US universities are almost all foreigners. They come here because the US still has enough of a remnant of its technological dominance to make it an attractive place to look for work...but they're (rightly) thinking that they'd rather bring that knowledge back to their home countries.

    We can only coast on the inertia of the post-Sputnik STEM boom in the US for so long.

  • wareagle||

    Ken,
    yes, we've seen worse but seldom have we - and I'll use the collective loosely - taken active steps to perpetuate the problem. For instance, Reagan came in to roughly the same economic situation as Obama; one would think history would be a good teacher. Obama? He has taken the opposite tack and surprise, surprise gotten opposite results.

    Even Jerry Brown realizes CA cannot continue on its current path and he's as die-hard a liberal as there is. But he cannot control the legislature. While the tech industry is certainly a huge boon, you have no doubt noticed that when one of the giants adds people, it is never in CA.

  • ||

    This isn't Detroit or Michigan, where everyone is dependent on the UAW. There's a highly skilled labor force servicing a huge diversity of industries. Our governor's an idiot, our legislature is even dumber than he is, and out public unions are screwing us over royally.

    But the government won't hold us down forever. One of the great things about market forces, creative destruction and all of that is that governments can slow that stuff down, but they can't stop it.

    I don't know how long it's going to be, but the time to get optimistic on an investment isn't when the stock is riding high. The time to buy in is when the market's down. Right now the market of ideas is discounting California too heavily, if you ask me. I'm cautiously optimistic.

  • ||

    It's a good idea to buy and hold when the market's down only if you think it will (eventually) go up.

    That's not inevitable. Investment rules of thumb that made sense during the late 20th century are treated like laws of nature by many investment advisors, but they're not. They're based on assumptions that may not hold anymore.

  • Ice Nine||

    If the efficacy of that particular investment rule were unique to the late 20th century, rather than being a product of centuries of human experience, you might have had a point there. As it is, that is as close to an inevitability as there is; it's just a question of whether it will cycle again in the remainder of your lifetime.

  • ||

    I don't know about that.

    I look at the example of the Soviet Union, and I don't think to myself, "Wow, I guess it's hopeless". I think, "Those guys couldn't even hold back market forces with gulags"!

    Like I said, the timing is questionable. But it isn't California's politicians that are holding us back. It's the people of California.

    Once they decide they're not going to suffer with this anymore, the politicians will all fall in line.

  • ||

    Once they decide they're not going to suffer with this anymore, the politicians will all fall in line.

    One of the things that would really help in California? Is if Republicans elsewhere would shut up about things like gay marriage and immigrant bashing.

    One of the reasons California is hostile to Republicans is because Californians are so hostile to cultural conservatism.

    We're not hostile to capitalism. We have three major thriving centers of American capitalism (Silicon Valley, Hollywood, and Biotech)...and that's not counting stuff like the wine regions, tourism, etc.

    California's swing voters don't vote against the Republicans because they're hostile to capitalism. They vote against Republicans because they think Republicans are hostile to the gay guy they work with in the office, and the Mexican nanny that watches their kids so they can go to work.

  • ||

    Damn, Ken. You forgot the two biggest industries in the state, $$$-wise. Agriculture and Oil will continue to carry this place, at least until the imbeciles in Sacramento decide to cut more water off to guys on the west side of the central valley* and end fracking altogether.#

    *The last time has been disastrous for anyone who doesn't own a ton of unfarmable acreage in the mountains they can claim water rights for. Hell, I've had guys literally crying in their office because they had to plow under hundreds of acres of almonds.

    #I'm shocked this hasn't happened yet, and the oilmen I know tell me the state has continued to leave them pretty well alone. That said, they're one disaster from the CA EPA kicking them in the balls.

  • ||

    Damn, Ken. You forgot the two biggest industries in the state, $$$-wise. Agriculture and Oil will continue to carry this place

    I originally had some stuff in there about ag and the wine industry and mentioned some other stuff too, but the new Ken Shultz Rule keeping me to under 900 characters? I had to leave a lotta stuff out.

    I know they're not targeting me with this 900 character rule (at least I hope not), but, seriously, 900 characters is not enough.

    They could go to 1500 and still keep HERCULES SAVIN ABUNION at bay.

    900's not enough to say what you need to say, and it's even worse if you need to quote someone else in the thread so they know who you're talking to.

    I'd say more about this, but I'm limited to 9...

  • a Fan||

    I never read more than 100 from you...

  • rectal||

    Ignoring me only gives me more strength

  • ||

    I never read more than 100 from you...

    You can't wait to read all of my posts.

    You scroll down threads looking for my posts first, you liar.

    You stay up late at night thinking about my posts.

    You a liar.

  • ||

    I look at the example of the Soviet Union, and I don't think to myself, "Wow, I guess it's hopeless". I think, "Those guys couldn't even hold back market forces with gulags"!

    At what point in the cycle is Russia right now, Mr Shultz? They're pretty far down right now, are you considering investing in them?

    And people in California and elsewhere have been consistently pissed off at their legislatures and Congress etc. for decades now. Hasn't changed anything because the system is designed to dissipate such pissage harmlessly and the people in power are experts at manipulating public opinion of them.

  • ||

    How is it a product of centuries of human experience? There have been as many collapses as there have been cycle oscillations.

    We trust in the fact that business et al move in cycles because our institutions in the background have been stable for so long.

    If you invested in the Roman Empire in 475 AD because it was down, you would not have profited. If you invested in the CSA in 1864, you would not have profited. etc.

  • rectal||

    Ignoring me won't help.

  • Ice Nine||

    How? The most fundamental principle of astute investing: sell into rising markets; buy into falling markets, was surely recognized early in the human game. Centuries of human buying and selling experience solidified its verity one would think. I don't really know what else to say about "how".

    Since collapses of varying degree are one-half of the cycle "oscillation", I would assume your equation is correct. It serves, incidentally, to corroborate what I said, not counter it.

    Ken of course wasn't talking about investing in the CA government. I don't think that anyone did - or could - "invest in the Roman Empire" or "invest in the CSA". People invested in enterprise in Italy in 475 and in the South in 1864. I think the economies of both recovered, did they not?

  • ||

    I'd agree, Ice Nine, but there are a ton of outstanding bonds issued by CA and it's various county and local governments. So there is a lot of investment in the state, and it's failure to pay drives up property and business taxes so so the sheet can be balanced. And this does, in fact, drive business into the arms of places like Nevada and Arizona.

  • Ice Nine||

    Well,OK. I hadn't really thought about government bonds. I'm sure that is because Ken's statement which Tulpa contested was discussing "industries", "stocks", and "the market of ideas", not government bonds. A default on the latter would have profound consequences, as you and Tulpa are correctly, of course, noting. Regardless, California isn't ever going away and there will always be investment where there are 30 million humans. You are talking about a near term depression or something. Tulpa was talking about the End Times. One of those profound consequences would be the creation of the mother of all investment opportunities, not the end of profitable investment.

  • ||

    How? The most fundamental principle of astute investing

    The most fundamental principle in astute investing is buy low, sell high.

    Considering that California was ground zero for subprime, both lenders and borrowers...

    I remember circa 2006, when I saw a report showing that more than half of all the construction in the United States was happening in the Inland Empire. So... If you're looking at the economic cycle--and why NOT look at the economic cycle?

    ...seems like California is due for an uptick as we continue to digest all that foreclosed housing inventory, and as the banks continue to work that crap off their balance sheets.

    The economy will start growing robustly again, and when it does? Anyone who priced California based on where it was when it was at the bottom of the cycle is gonna misprice it.

    That's all I'm tryin' to say.

  • ||

    The investment deal was an analogy. There's no reason to think California is actually hopeless.

    I read about a Warren Buffet investment analogy once. He said something to the effect of: the market is like having a manic-depressive business partner. He always seems to think things are either much better than they are or much worse than they really are.

    When he thinks things are much better, he wants to buy your shares from you at a premium, and when he thinks things are much worse, he wants to sell you his shares at a discount.

    The hardest trick in the world is to take advantage of his manic-depression--without ever falling under his influence.

    If you look at the economy in California now, and all you see is how bad the government is? I'm gonna say you've fallen under the manic-depressive's influence.

  • Ice Nine||

    The most fundamental principle in astute investing is buy low, sell high.

    Of course. "Sell into rising markets; buy into falling markets" is merely another way of saying that. Call it a corollary if you must. I sense that you think I'm arguing with you. Unless I missed something, we are in agreement; at least that was my intention.

  • protefeed||

    There's no such thing as inevitable and permanent decline. You can literally bomb the crap out of a country and it will come back with even halfway reasonable political policies (Germany, Japan).

    Communist China has made huge strides simply by becoming a somewhat less repressive dictatorial regime.

    Hong Kong went from a literal mosquito-filled swamp to a wealthy first-world economy by having a government that just got out of the way for a few decades.

  • ||

    Germany, Japan...China, Hong Kong...

    There's hope for California, too.

  • ||

    Ronald Reagan: Deficit cutter?

    Non sic cogito

  • ||

    the US is not the freest place on the planet - not by a longshot

    Yup. The freest place is Somalia. Anarchy is the only true freedom.

  • John Zerzan||

    Hey, Pale Injun, get back over here! I ain't finished yet!

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Cytotoxic||

    Let's not kid ourselves, let's not delude ourselves, the US is not the freest place on the planet - not by a longshot.

    Actually, it is at least almost. Sucks but that's life.

  • Robert||

    It's certainly close to the top. You can always find certain scales by which the USA is down a few ranks, but overall there are few places like it, and you can see it in our creativity.

  • ||

    At least in my corner of Cal, the Republicans are making headway at the local level.

  • ||

    And two years after that, they've completely rejected the argument that won them that teeth kicking. They've appointed a guy who gets them to proudly back crony capitalism ("We can't let the Democrats be the only ones taking advantage of all that money flowing through Washington.") and The Bridge to Nowhere ("It's a couple of hundred miles from the island to the nearest airport and the only other way of getting around is by ferry!"). If they're not dead, they're sure as hell suicidal.

  • Mike M.||

    The democrats still control both the Senate and the White House. In other words, even if every single republican in the House was a die hard TEA Party member or libertarian sympathizer, they still couldn't do much of anything.

    And since the democrats adamantly refuse to pass a budget and allow a real debate on spending to take place, the only leverage that the republicans have right now is to shut down the government entirely, and they're obviously not going to do that, as much as we might like them to.

  • ||

    They could at least block the awful stuff that BO and the Dems want...which they're not doing in a reliable manner. Of course, in some cases, like the defense authorization bill, they wanted the awful stuff as much as the prez did.

  • ||

    And not winning overnight is something I could live with, even if I detested it. But, that's not all that's happening with them. The Tea Party Congressmen aside, the Republicans are already abandoning the themes that won them that victory in favor of big government and "I love Jesus more than you!" Just look at the Presidential race.

  • ||

    and just two years later they kicked the democrats fucking teeth out of their heads.

    The Tea Party beat the Dems in 2010, not the GOP. All the GOP did was provide spots on ballots.

    The TP is much, much weaker now, and the GOP is (still) tripping over their own feet. This could be a very bad year for the GOP. If Santorum of Gingrich gets the nom, we're talking the Dems taking back the House and getting a bigger majority in the Senate, and BO getting reelected with a "mandate".

  • Robert||

    "All the GOP did was provide spots on the ballots." That's what political parties do in this country. Although they do have organiz'ns, at this time in hx in the USA in particular, they're a lot more category than they are organiz'n.

  • ||

    Romney was just on Fox; I lost track of how many times he referred to tax rates, but he never said Word Fucking One about spending cuts. He did, in his concluding remarks, toss off some boilerplate about "balancing budgets" as part of his vast entrepreneurialist business expertise.

    Maybe he could win California.

  • Robert||

    Spending cuts are things you can't run on. You wait and then spring them after the election, when there's nothing anybody can do about you.

  • ||

    the erstwhile Republican presidential candidate merely encouraged the depleted GOP to buck up.

    Did they then all bow their heads and pray to Dinosaur Wrangling Jeeziss for guidance?

  • Your Support Group||

    he never said Word Fucking One

    That's it. Let it all out. We're not here to judge.

  • ||

    Nearly ten years of cogent, thoughtful analysis. You must be proud.

    What was your name again?

  • ||

    It's likely the same griefer shithead who keeps popping up for a few days, then disappears for a week, and again returns in force to crap all over everything. It's like White Injun without the debilitating insanity, so he's not even mildly amusing. This place needs new, higher-caliber trolls.

  • ||

    This place needs new, higher-caliber trolls.

    You get the trolls you deserve.
    Doesn't justice suck?

  • Jerry Sandusky||

    No.

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • ||

    No shit your ilk have an inferiority complex. Trolling a website under a spoofer handle? That was an obvious giveaway.

  • ||

    If you don't start ignoring me I'm going to tell SugarFree.
    Don't make him come down there.

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • ||

    The sad thing is that you could easily replace California with national and have a pretty good forward description of the party.

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Vote American (1969)||

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Bingo||

    Registration can't come soon enough.

  • Mike M.||

    Never going to happen.

  • rectal||

    Ignoring me only gives me more strength

  • ||

    It's getting painful to even lurk here...

  • ||

    Registration will only stop spoofing, not the other sorts of pollution. Stopping spoofing is important though.

  • Tulpy Poo||

    Oooh, yeah baby, I could spoof so good.

  • rectal||

    Ignoring me only gives me more strength

  • Robert||

    But then we'd have to hire the real Steve Smith to post stuff as STEVE SMITH.

  • rectal||

    Ignoring me only gives me more strength

  • Tobias Funke||

    Hey now, don't leave your uncle T-Bag hanging.

  • FTFY||

    If the California Republicans continue distancing themselves from the libertarian movement, they will continue to suffer

  • ||

    Where's the money, Lebowski?
    Where's the money, Shithead?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ-V5qvMow4

  • Rev. Blue Moon ||

    Good thing I participated in that fundraising drive so I could get the "fixes" for the comment section I was promised.

    Another thread ruined.

  • ||

    They've obviously done something to slow her down, though. Now it would be helpful if morons would quit talking to her as if she's a human.

  • Bingo||

    It's been a couple of years since I looked at her blog but I checked out the Dear John article the other day... holy shit. Her little sidebar where she keeps track of stuff that she's written about the commentators here is up to 70 names! Funny enough, White Indian, Herc, and the other copy-paste personas seem to be absent. Gee, I wonder why...

  •  ||

    I looked at her blog...checked out the Dear John article

    Yeah, she's the one who's obsessed.

  • Bingo||

    I'm not the one with a large chunk of my blog dedicated to meta-discussion about commentators on a niche opinion website. You are one seriously disturbed person rectal.

  •  ||

    Ha. Not "rectal." Just one individual pointing out your hypocrisy. The irony in the fact that you are obsessing over an obsessive personality seems to be lost on you. Go ahead. Try to further justify your hate/obsession. Dig a deeper hole.

  • Bingo||

    Oh, I'm sure.

  • rectal||

    Ignoring me only gives me more strength

  • rectal||

    Ignoring me only gives me more strength

  • cw||

    Being interested does not mean being obsessed.

  • ||

    Holy shit is right. She's living evidence against Szasz.

  • rectal||

    Ignoring me only gives me more strength

  • ||

    I don't notice her slowing down. I wish you were right though, Warty.

  • rectal||

    kuessen verboten

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • ||

    What

  • ||

    Another thread ruined.

    Oh come on, Rev. All you have to do is scroll past the obvious indicators. It's easy!

    They've obviously done something to slow her down

    Oh Warty, still on the "rather" (alias "rectal", "fart in a jar") scapegoat bandwagon? Is Cleveland so destitute of hope that you must obsess over these fantasms of narcissism?

    it would be helpful if morons would quit talking to her

    Oh Warty, don't you realize by now that it's the "morons" who make this chat room run on time?

  • rectal||

    Ignoring me only gives me more strength

  •  ||

    Delicious! Oh Warty, you've outdone yourself with these spoofs.

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • ||

    It's sort of amazing.

    I'm not sure if it says more about Republicans or libertarians that even in California, the libertarians are marginalized within the Republican part. You would think that if there was one state the libertarians could dominante, and the Republicans would welcome their support, it would be California.

    But no. Either Republicans hate libertarians that much, or libertarians are so incompetent at organizing that even there, they can't maintain a toehold of local party control.

    Honestly, though, I think the problem is that the Republicans are cowards who are afraid to honestly stand up for small government principles. They don't want libertarians in control because they fear that voters will be horrified by anyone who is serious about shrinking the state.

  • Ray||

    Don't be dissing Gene McCarthy; he's one of the better 'Rats of the last 50 years...

  • shrike||

    Hot Damn! The long awaited LiberParty/Redneck/SoCon/Neocon coalition is here!

  • rectal||

    Ignoring me only gives me more strength

  • juris imprudent||

    Either Republicans hate libertarians that much, or libertarians are so incompetent

    Both. The CAGOP will never consent to legalizing pot - which is an issue they could ride, putting Dems in an uncomfortable position. But God! forbid that the bourboun swillers abide pot-heads. No, they must shove their micro-minded morality - well on no one because they will NEVER have power again in this state. A retired prison guard should only be a GOP guest in order to provide a tar-and-feathering target.

    The Libertarian Party in the state is in the thrall of their own brand of purists. They don't really want to win, they want to prosletyze.

  • rectal||

    I wish it would rain on the red carpet.

  • Crickets||

    I ♥ rectal spoofs.
    And Warty.
    And sarcasmic.
    But most of all, SugarFree!
    ♥♥♥♥♥!

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • rectal||

    Ignoring me only gives me more strength

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • ||

    This shit is still going on?

  • rectal||

    You bet your fat fanny it is

  • ||

    Great

  • rectal||

    Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup

  • Crickets||

    Unaccustomed as we are to public speaking, we must nevertheless express our delight in the zany psychosis of this libertarian/anarchist free-for-all!

    The lifers, the trolls, the troll-spoofs, the unsuspecting passersby...

    It's just the tops!

    Thank you, Reason. Thank you!
    And don't you ever change!

  • rectal||

    Need a hug?

  • Pre-emptive "rectal" spoof||

    Our anuses bleed. Or something.

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • rectal||

    Nice. My name is sarcasmic. What's yours?

  • rectal||

    Love you

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  •  ||

  •  ||

  •  ||

  • rectal||

    This is the indepth comments we've grown to expect

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • I||

    I like how the anarchist crazy is focused on this one thread.

    And how the "rectal" spoof is so dedicated to its mission.

    That shows...something...

    Do you love me, "rectal," and more important, do you still suffer from spoofer anal leakage?

    Hugs and kisses!
    Ciao, bella!

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Robert||

    By now it feels like you're bleeding out of my ass.

  • rectal||

    awww i love you too schmoopy

  • Action 5 Red Carpet Team™||

    Silly "rectal" spoof...don't you know that all the action is on the Margaret Thatcher/Meryl Streep thread below?

  • Sevo||

    juris imprudent|2.26.12 @ 7:01PM|#
    "The Libertarian Party in the state is in the thrall of their own brand of purists. They don't really want to win, they want to prosletyze."

    May be true, but as a separate party, they run their own candidates.
    The question is whether those who favor libertarian views should involve themselves with the L. party or the GOP. Neither one seems capable of getting a candidate elected.
    The CA GOP as a supposed 'major' party seems to be interested in so-con intolerance and rent-seeking; Dem-light. So they don't really offer an alternative.
    Not sure about the 'purity' of the L. party; Starchild seems to cover a lot of ground. What do you see?

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • ||

    It could be worse.

    You could be reading the comments at Taibbi's blog.

  • rectal||

    Or you could be bleeding out of your ass

  • rectal||

    I'm bleeding out of my ass

  • Lurker||

    What about the fact that the state's (and country's) fastest growing demographic is explicitly anti-Libertarian (economically statist and socially paternalistic) in its political leanings?

  • ||

    Thats jsut like way too funny when you think about it man.

    www.Gone-Anon.tk

  • ||

    If the GOP keeps insulting and marginalizing eight percent to twenty percent of American voters (depending on which state we're talking about), they shouldn't be surprised when they keep losing elections.

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