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Everything We Know Is Wrong
Two more reminders that a great deal of what we "know" about the world is speculative, unsettled, or just plain inaccurate:
* The settlement now called Istanbul is apparently 6,000 years older than previously believed.
* The Milky Way Galaxy is apparently 50 percent more massive than previously believed.
Mister DNA|1.12.09 @ 5:04PM|#
The settlement now called Istanbul is apparently 6,000 years older than previously believed.
Why does the age of Istanbul get the works? That's nobody's
business but the Turks'.
Reinmoose|1.12.09 @ 5:07PM|#
The settlement now called Istanbul is apparently 6,000 years
older than previously believed
That's ridiculous. Everyone knows the Earth is only about 6,000
years old. Istanbul can't be older than the Earth.
|1.12.09 @ 5:08PM|#
The weight of new discoveries in Turkey over the past couple of decades might require us to revise the Mesopotamian-centric vision of how civilization arose.
PantsFan|1.12.09 @ 5:13PM|#
The Milky Way Galaxy is apparently 50 percent more massive
than previously believed.
Lay off the cheeseburgers, fatty
jj|1.12.09 @ 5:24PM|#
Since we have had the obligatory creationist sneer, here's a
counter laugh:
Junk DNA (at least approximately 33% of it) has been found to be
not so junky after all, but integral to post-translation
processing. In other news: so-called "vestigial" structures such as
the appendix and tonsils are being found to be crucial to an
integrated monitoring system for the body.
There's enough "scientific" arrogance go around and come back and
bite us all in the butt, atheists and ID'ers alike.
|1.12.09 @ 5:25PM|#
Why does the age of Istanbul get the works? That's nobody's business but the Turks'.
Well, even old New York was once New Amsterdam.
Why they changed it? I can't say. People just liked it better that
way!
|1.12.09 @ 5:34PM|#
jj,
By what process have these new facts been discovered? Might it be
science? Science attempts to explain the world using the evidence
available. When new evidence comes to light that contradicts a
previously held idea, the idea changes. Contrast that with
creationists who ignore facts that contradict their preconceptions.
Which side is more arrogant?
LOLURF|1.12.09 @ 5:40PM|#
It is difficult to determine the structure of the Milky Way
because the Earth is inside it.
I'M IN YR MILK
STIRRIN IT
|1.12.09 @ 5:40PM|#
An international team of researchers have used ten telescopes spread out between Hawaii, the Caribbean and the northeastern United States to determine that the Milky Way is rotating at a speed of 161,000 km/h faster than previously thought.
We've been making accurate velocity measurements of bright
celestial objects for over half a century now. Further, the galaxy
rotates faster at the hub than at the rim. So the above claim makes
no sense.
"These measurements use the traditional surveyor's method of triangulation and do not depend on any assumptions based on other properties, such as brightness," Menten said. The direct measurements "are revising our understanding of the structure and motions of our Galaxy."
You can get a measurement of distance by triangulating from one
side of the sun to the other, of objects in our galaxy. But the
implication that we've been estimating distance by changes in
brightness and that we now have some new way of measuring
"directly" is shear poppycock.
I don't know what the Max Planck Institute is actually claiming,
but this report is worthless.
Guy Montag|1.12.09 @ 5:47PM|#
The Milky Way Galaxy is apparently 50 percent more massive
than previously believed.
If it was made of bacon instead of milk it would be much
slimmer.
Things you can learn on other threads here . . .
|1.12.09 @ 5:47PM|#
The weight of new discoveries in Turkey over the past couple
of decades might require us to revise the Mesopotamian-centric
vision of how civilization arose.
Would that be the Mesopotamian-centric view of civilization that's
been discredited for at least a decade now, in favor of agriculture
and domestication of animals (and by extension, civilization)
arising independently in 4-8 zones, separated by distance and
culture?
You're betraying your age, grandpa :p
Syd|1.12.09 @ 6:04PM|#
You can get a measurement of distance by triangulating from
one side of the sun to the other, of objects in our galaxy. But the
implication that we've been estimating distance by changes in
brightness and that we now have some new way of measuring
"directly" is shear poppycock.
The periodic changes in brightness of Cepheid variables is related
to their maximum absolute brightness. By comparing that to their
apparent magnitude, you can measure the distance to the Cepheid,
and, if it's in another galaxy or star cloud, the distance to that
galaxy or star cluster.
|1.12.09 @ 6:04PM|#
Shem,
That's why I wrote about the past couple of decades.
The independent zones idea hasn't supplanted the older narrative,
but it continues to gain ground.
Guy Montag|1.12.09 @ 6:14PM|#
PF,
Idunno, but it must be pretty tiny with all that space between the
globs of matter. Or are they strings now? Or membranes?
|1.12.09 @ 6:14PM|#
This may mean that the Milky Way is the king of the Local Group and that our impending collision with Andromeda will result in us kicking Andromeda's ass.
|1.12.09 @ 6:20PM|#
Warren, I think that for certain very distant objects (too far
away to show any detectable parallax, using previous means), people
have used an assumption of the objects' brightness to calculate
their distance.
More, with further links, here:
http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=5410
Orange Line Special|1.12.09 @ 6:25PM|#
Meanwhile, back in the present day, almost everything that
people have heard about this issue is wrong.
And, that's because hacks have continually misled about it.
I tried to talk some sense into Weigel's new editor, and it was
like talking to a 20 year Sc|ent0l0gy veteran.
|1.12.09 @ 6:35PM|#
What do you think you're going to accomplish, LoneWacko?
Do you think you're going to rephrase the statement "I don't like
the kerning on that birth certificate," in some manner that will
make us all slap our foreheads and go "Oh my God, that guy's
RIGHT!" or something?
Guy Montag|1.12.09 @ 6:39PM|#
JFC, is that fake Obama citizenship issue still out there with the wackjobs? Try finding something of substance.
|1.12.09 @ 6:41PM|#
Obama's birth certificate "controversy" is such a lame conspiracy theory. The Vince Foster "suicide" one was way better - the incoming Democratic administration deserves a better class of wingnut conspiracy theorist than the likes of Lonewacko.
|1.12.09 @ 6:41PM|#
If it weren't for the fact that Biden would become president, I'd rather enjoy watching the sideshow if, in fact, Obama weren't a natural born citizen of the United States. We deserve something crazy like that.
TwinWacko\'s editor|1.12.09 @ 6:44PM|#
make that Philip Berg.
Peter Berg's the dude that makes movies with handheld cameras.
tarran|1.12.09 @ 7:00PM|#
joe,
Your 6:35 comment brought a smile to my lips.
Ow, and Lonewacko, STFU, you are even more annoying than the other
bickering/spoofing posters who have been dominating H&R
lately... And that's saying something.
Franklin Harris|1.12.09 @ 7:03PM|#
Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks.
TallDave|1.12.09 @ 7:21PM|#
In other news, we are 100% certain global warming is a huge problem driven by C02 levels, even though the proposed mechanism by which CO2 would cause warming
|1.12.09 @ 7:31PM|#
TallDave,
Had to go all the way back to 2004 Alabama to find that article did
you?
Paul|1.12.09 @ 7:35PM|#
Had to go all the way back to 2004 Alabama to find that
article did you?
New information suggests Alabama didn't exist in 2004.
robc|1.12.09 @ 7:38PM|#
The settlement now called Istanbul is apparently 6,000 years
older than previously believed.
The Milky Way Galaxy is apparently 50 percent more massive than
previously believed.
Unless they are wrong this time.
Also, its surprising after all these years that people still quote
The Four Lads.
Guy Montag|1.12.09 @ 7:43PM|#
robc,
Be prepared for the flood of amazement about The Four Lads vs. They
Must be Giants. I experienced this a few years ago right here on
these tubes.
|1.12.09 @ 7:56PM|#
I am more concerned that many of the things that "we" (meaning the general population) know about economics and government are wrong.
robc|1.12.09 @ 8:01PM|#
Guy,
Im well aware, I have done it before. And before anyone says it was
a bigger hit for TMBG, they didnt chart with it, it went to #4
(IIRC) for The Four Lads.
EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy|1.12.09 @ 8:24PM|#
I don't know what the Max Planck Institute is actually claiming, but this report is worthless.
And just about par for science reporting in the popular press,
too.
Not that I'm bitter or anything.
Mister DNA|1.12.09 @ 8:27PM|#
Guy, my brother loves the TMBG version, yet I am loyal to the
Four Lads.
There might be one person on earth who prefers Britney Spears'
version of "Satisfaction" over DEVO's cover or The Stones'
original. We must hunt that person down and kill them.
Guy Montag|1.12.09 @ 8:32PM|#
MDNA,
I have the shotgun if you have the shells.
But her version is good with the sound off . . .
|1.12.09 @ 8:56PM|#
wait till you hear about the unfunded liability for medicare, social security and private pensions. it's over a quadrillion dollars.
Lefiti|1.12.09 @ 8:57PM|#
Holy shit, could it ne that markets aren't self-correcting? Maybe information techonology now makes a planned economy feasible? Libertarians really are the halfwit assholes they appear to be?
zoltan|1.12.09 @ 9:23PM|#
Obligatory creationist smear? That's like an obligatory flat-earther smear. It is, yes, obligatory.
Alan Vanneman|1.12.09 @ 9:51PM|#
I won't resist pointing out that the Istanbul discovery was the result of Reason's least-favorite human activity, a high-speed rail project. They're digging a tunnel under the Bosphorus--dunno if they're gonna call it the Xerxes Express, but here's hopin'--which will be deeper and longer than the Paris-London Chunnel.
Alan Vanneman|1.12.09 @ 9:53PM|#
And no wonder I missed the Milky Way article--it was in Cosmos, and I, of course, only read Cosmo.
torpid|1.12.09 @ 10:39PM|#
Surprise: known cosmotarian Jesse Walker, working for notorious
cosmo publication "Reason", post link to COSMO magazine site.
Not really a surprise.
Jesse Walker|1.12.09 @ 10:49PM|#
Unless they are wrong this time.
No, my statements are accurate even if the new claims prove
inaccurate. God bless "apparently" and all its brother
weasel-words.
TallDave|1.12.09 @ 10:58PM|#
Tony,
Had to go all the way back to 2004 Alabama to find that article
did you?
Five years and counting. I have yet to hear any plausible
explanation.
Hell, they still haven't adequately explained why CO2 lags
temperature increase by 800 years historically. The most plausible
explanation is that CO2 is released from warming oceans, but that's
as problematic for the Al Gore crowd as the UAH data.
But hey, what are a few little lies anyways? We're saving the
world!
nobody u no and a joe p doyali|1.12.09 @ 11:01PM|#
jesse walker do you use those weasel words when you write about your failing corrupt corporatist capitalist fascist system?
|1.12.09 @ 11:15PM|#
The settlement now called Istanbul is apparently 6,000 years
older than previously believed.
In other words, everything we knew about the history of the place
remains true, but now we know more.
The Milky Way Galaxy is apparently 50 percent more massive than
previously believed.
In other words, beyond the parts of the galaxy we already knew
about, there's more.
I fail to see what's amazing about this, unless you were under the
impression that we already knew everything.
MJ|1.12.09 @ 11:59PM|#
"The settlement now called Istanbul is apparently 6,000 years
older than previously believed."
As far as I can glean from the article, all this proves is that
there were people living there 6000 years before the known founding
of the city. It is not known whether that settlement was continuous
for the full six millenia. Especially, since these people lived
there before the Black Sea was created, which was undoubtably an
impressively traumatic natural disaster for anyone living on the
proto-Sea of Marmara.
Right Wing Realist|1.13.09 @ 2:52AM|#
In response to the title:
Except for libertarian dogma, obviously.
This is also a blatant crypto-swipe at Global Warming.
johnl|1.13.09 @ 2:53AM|#
I'm sure Jesse is aware that "how much of what you know is wrong" was the lead of a Reason promotional mailer in ?1982?.
|1.13.09 @ 9:05AM|#
JFC, is that fake Obama citizenship issue still out there with the wackjobs?
No, the "Obama is not a 'natural born citizen' 'cause his paw was a
furriner" is all the rage now.
So it doesn't matter if the birth cert is fake at all.
|1.13.09 @ 9:34AM|#
I was driving on the freeway in the fast lane
With a rabid wolverine in my underwear
When suddenly a guy behind me in the back seat
Popped right up and cupped his hands across my eyes
I guessed, "Is it Uncle Frank or Cousin Louie?"
"Is it Bob or Joe or Walter?"
"Could it be Bill or Jim or Ed or Bernie or Steve?"
I probably would have kept on guessing
But about that time we crashed into the truck
And as I'm laying bleeding there on the asphalt
Finally I recognize the face of my hibachi dealer
Who takes off his prosthetic lips and tells me
Everything you know is wrong
Black is white, up is down and short is long
And everything you thought was just so
Important doesn't matter
Everything you know is wrong
Just forget the words and sing along
All you need to understand is
Everything you know is wrong
I was walkin' to the kitchen for some Golden Grahams
When I accidentally stepped into an alternate dimension
And soon I was abducted by some aliens from space
Who's face kinda looked like Jamie Farr
They sucked out my internal organs
And they took some polaroids
And said I was a darn good sport
And as a way of saying thank you
They offered to transport me back to
Any point in history that I would care to go
And so I had them send me back to last Thursday night
So I could pay my phone bill on time
Just then the floating disembodied head of
Colonel Sanders started yelling
Everything you know is wrong
Black is white, up is down and short is long
And everything you thought was just so
Important doesn't matter
Everything you know is wrong
Just forget the words and sing along
All you need to understand is
Everything you know is wrong
(Instrumental)
I was just about to mail a letter to my evil twin
When I got a nasty papercut
And, well, to make a long story short
It got infected and I died
So now I'm up in heaven with St. Peter
By the pearly gates
And it's obvious he doesn't like
The Nehru jacket that I'm wearing
He tells me that they've got a dress code
Well, he lets me into heaven anyway
But I get the room next to the noisy ice machine
For all eternity
And every day he runs by screaming
Everything you know is wrong
Black is white, up is down and short is long
And everything you used to think was so important
Doesn't really matter anymore
Because the simple fact remains that
Everything you know is wrong
Just forget the words and sing along
All you need to understand is
Everything you know is wrong
Everything you know is wrong
Jesse Walker|1.13.09 @ 9:35AM|#
In other words, everything we knew about the history of the
place remains true, but now we know more....In other words, beyond
the parts of the galaxy we already knew about, there's
more.
This must be a new use of the phrase "in other words" that I was
previously unaware of.
This is also a blatant crypto-swipe at Global
Warming.
Global warming didn't even occur to me when I posted this. If I
were aiming to discredit it this way, it would have been a pretty
desperate argument.
|1.13.09 @ 9:41AM|#
No more desperate than the usual efforts, though.
Hey...we had a cold January once. Uh...uh...there was this one year
that was really hot about ten years ago, and last wasn't as
hot.
Look, socialists!
|1.13.09 @ 11:50AM|#
Jesse,
What is the point of the post?
Do you consider Newton 'wrong' when he says:
F = ma. After all Einstein has shown a new formulation that's more
accurate?
If I say that the time is 11am and it's really 10:42:31 is that
'wrong'?
If everything we know is wrong, wouldn't that include your
sentence? That gets silly pretty quickly.
Are you implying that there's not much to be gained by more
research and more discoveries? Or that we should take nothing at
face value?
So what is your point? Please explain just why these new scientific
results are of concern and why the fact that the consensus has
changed is worth noting.
dhex|1.13.09 @ 2:30PM|#
"I tried to talk some sense into Weigel's new editor, and it was
like talking to a 20 year Sc|ent0l0gy veteran."
even fucking SoloWackolo is afraid of the scientologists!
especially the MexicanScientologists!
|1.13.09 @ 3:14PM|#
Hey...we had a cold January once. Uh...uh...there was this
one year that was really hot about ten years ago, and last wasn't
as hot.
Given the climate trends over the past ten years, it would be more
accurate to place this kind of floundering in the mouths of the
warmenistas:
Hey...we had a warm January once. Uh...uh...there was this one
year that was really hot about ten years ago, and, umm, last year
wasn't as hot, but never mind.
Look, climate change!
|1.13.09 @ 4:53PM|#
Yes, RC.
While seven or eight of the last ten years will rank in the ten
hottest years ever measured, the fact that annual temperature data
hasn't shifted to a constant smooth upward line means that there
can't be any global warming.
Deep thawts from the denialists.
EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy|1.13.09 @ 5:18PM|#
the Istanbul discovery was the result of Reason's least-favorite human activity, a high-speed rail project
'Nothing wrong with rail projects, as long as there are undertaken
without the theft of land, and with money voluntarily invested (for
reasons of greed, altruism, or whatever).
I mean, come on, this is pretty basic stuff, here.
BakedPenguin|1.13.09 @ 6:44PM|#
The weight of new discoveries in Turkey over the past couple
of decades might require us to revise the Mesopotamian-centric
vision of how civilization arose.
joe, your Anatolian partisanship is really blatant in this post.
You're just carrying water for Constantinople, admit it.
Oh, and I have a link to prove
it...
Jesse Walker|1.14.09 @ 11:16PM|#
Do you consider Newton 'wrong' when he says:
F = ma. After all Einstein has shown a new formulation that's more
accurate?
In some ways wrong, in some ways right.
If I say that the time is 11am and it's really 10:42:31 is that
'wrong'?
Yes.
If everything we know is wrong, wouldn't that include your
sentence?
Indeed it would, Professor Paradox. But the title isn't a
literal-minded statement of fact. It's a play on the well-known
phrase "Everything you know is wrong."
Are you implying that there's not much to be gained by more
research and more discoveries?
Of course not. Quite the opposite, actually.
Or that we should take nothing at face value?
That thought wasn't on my mind.
So what is your point?
It's spelled out right there in the first sentence of the post.
Also, I thought the stories themselves were interesting enough to
be worth linking to.
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