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Big Corn Muscles Aside Solar, Wind and Geothermal Subsidies
The Environmental Working Group has just issued a report that finds that 75 percent of all renewable fuels tax subsidies in 2007 went to environmentally damaging corn-ethanol production. In addition, the corn ethanol industry, teetering on the edge of collapse despite billions already wasted in subsidies on it, now wants additional billions for a bailout. According to EWG:
A little noticed analysis buried in an April 2008 report from the federal Energy Information Administration (EIA)1 shows that the corn-based ethanol industry received $3 billion in tax credits in 2007, more than four times the $690 million in credits available to companies trying to expand all other forms of renewable energy, including solar, wind and geothermal power.
In the EWG press release, report author and EWG Midwest Vice President Craig Cox says:
"With America facing an exploding federal deficit and the crisis of climate change, it defies common sense to continue to lavish billions of tax dollars on corn-based ethanol, a fuel that has failed to fulfill its promises at every turn."
"Corn-based ethanol production, spurred by federal subsidies and mandates, is polluting our nation's water, eroding our soil and plowing up precious wildlife habitat -- and worst of all is likely contributing to global warming," Cox said. "As the polluting ethanol industry gets fat at taxpayer expense, proven clean technologies such as solar, wind and geothermal are fighting for support. America needs a truly renewable energy portfolio, and the evidence is mounting that corn-based ethanol will not get us where we need to go."
Of course, Reason.com has been inveighing against ethanol subsidies for years. But right on EWG! Hmmm. I wonder how EWG knows that the renewable energy sources its wants to subsidize won't have similar unintended consequences. Oh, never mind.
Whole EWG report here. Reason TV's video "Silly Senator, Corn is for Food," can be found here.
No Name Guy|1.8.09 @ 2:45PM|#
On my way into work this morning in uber-liberal Seattle, I saw
a SUV (ha!) with a tire cover that said: "Bio-diesel, no war
required"
I wanted to say to the driver: Yeah, perhaps no war, but how many
millions in the third world are going to starve needlessly for your
'food into fuel' pipe dreams?
Misanthropes......
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 2:46PM|#
The corporate farm ruined farming. If farms were still like the
farms of the 1940s I would be more supportive.
Yet another target to nationalize.
Tyler|1.8.09 @ 2:48PM|#
This is why it's entirely counterproductive for a government to
try to subsidize innovation. If they really wanted to do it, a
better way would to have a cash reward for any team who could
create x technology at y efficency first.
Of course, that's only after justifying the use of public funds for
such a purpose. You could easily argue that the market already has
such rewards built into it!
|1.8.09 @ 2:50PM|#
On my way into work this morning in uber-liberal Seattle, I
saw a SUV (ha!) with a tire cover that said: "Bio-diesel, no war
required"
I wanted to say to the driver: Yeah, perhaps no war, but how many
millions in the third world are going to starve needlessly for your
'food into fuel' pipe dreams?
Or they might be supporting algal bio-diesel which doesn't use, or
really compete with, food crops. Of course I've yet to see a good
publication on a pilot scale study.
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 2:53PM|#
Tyler,
Sometimes the corporatist approach works by accident in
unanticipated ways. Like when Rockwell, Boeing and others created
the Apollo program in a childish attempt to make the Soviets look
bad. We got fancy calculators worn on geek belts from that
"programme".
The Soviets realized that people could be killed playign in that
circus so they used robotic exploration instead.
Naga Sadow|1.8.09 @ 3:03PM|#
LurkerBold you pessimistic fool! Tang and velcro came out of the Apollo program. Clearly, the dividends were mighty indeed.
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 3:07PM|#
Naga Shadow, I think you are off on that velcro thing by about 20 years.
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 3:09PM|#
Boeing flew a plane yesterday using algal
biofuel.
Was it using stolen Soviet technology or was it stolen German
technology?
Naga Sadow|1.8.09 @ 3:13PM|#
LurkerBold,
Did you know why the Soviets never created any stealth planes? Cuz
they didn't know how to use transistors or computers for that
matter. I read somewhere, the a MIG 29 use to use vacuum tubes!
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 3:16PM|#
Unions for all! We shall grab control of the means of production! All hail the glorious revolution!
Naga Sadow|1.8.09 @ 3:17PM|#
OHHH!!!! Can I be Che in that revolution? I always wanted to be part of a cheesy marketing campaign after I die.
Naga Sadow|1.8.09 @ 3:20PM|#
Keep it down Orangutang. Pro Lib will steal all the tang for Monkey Tuesday.
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 3:23PM|#
The Soviets had the right idea when they used their advanced technology to train gerbils to head straight for my prostate when I shove that little guy up my ass.
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 3:23PM|#
3:21pm are you the same person who impersonates joe when you don't like what he says?
|1.8.09 @ 3:25PM|#
Corn subsidies reduce agave production, threatening our access to the precious tequila. 'Nuff said.
Seward|1.8.09 @ 3:27PM|#
Wow public choice theory and unintended consequences illustrated in one quick write up! You're great Bailey!
|1.8.09 @ 3:29PM|#
yo, fuck Iowa!
Seriously, corn is good for sweeteners and that's about it. Fuck
farmers, fuck Iowans.
This corn bullshit is killing my solar and wind power stocks. Corn
can pound sand! I don't even like the taste of it. Fuck it, fuck it
in it's fucking face.
Fuck you corn.
Sincerely,
phalkor
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 3:29PM|#
3:21pm are you the same person who impersonates joe when you don't like what he says?
Neu Mejican|1.8.09 @ 3:29PM|#
Ron,
I wonder how EWG knows that the renewable energy sources its
wants to subsidize won't have similar unintended
consequences.
There are always unintended consequences, but I do note that they
are advocating support for "proven" clean technologies.
Also, the have this:
Rebalance the U.S. renewable energy and energy conservation portfolio to favor options that do the most to reduce fossil fuel use, safeguard the environment, spur more widely-shared economic development and increase energy security.
Which seems to imply that they are not advocating a specific
technology, but want favor options that meet specific goals (c.f.
Tyler's comment above).
Naga Sadow|1.8.09 @ 3:31PM|#
Comin from Mississippi I gotta agree with phalkor. Farming sucks. Ever been to the Delta region of Mississippi? It's like a third world country over there.
Tsu Dho Nihm|1.8.09 @ 3:33PM|#
Naga Shadow,
Tang did not come from the Apollo program. It was developed by a
food company in the '50s and was later used by NASA (thus boosting
Tang's marketing campaign).
|1.8.09 @ 3:37PM|#
If I were Corn Czar, these would be the acceptable uses for
corn: corn-on-the-cob, cornbread, hushpuppies, fritters, popcorn,
whiskey and bourbon, masa products, grits, polenta, and maybe corn
oil. I will accept petitions proposing other uses, but be
forewarned that I don't expect to add much to this list.
The Corn Czar has spoken.
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 3:37PM|#
Tsu Dho Nihm,
Forgot about that Tang information.
Naga, if you don't know anything about the Apollo programme why did
you spout off 100% wrong?
I just goes to prove that Left is right again.
|1.8.09 @ 3:38PM|#
Cornbread, bourbon, and grits are all excellent uses of corn. But when corn production starts hurting tequila production, we have a problem.
Turtles|1.8.09 @ 3:40PM|#
This is what you get after 10 years of Farm Aid, John Mellencamps, and the "F$!k Reagan" generation. No one can touch The Farmers.
|1.8.09 @ 3:41PM|#
Nigel,
Indeed
(scroll down a bit for postings on the agave burning crisis).
Man, I love cornbread. Bourbon, too, though much less
frequently.
Urkobold™|1.8.09 @ 3:44PM|#
THE URKOBOLD GETS HIS TANG FROM COLUMBIA, WHERE IT'S SOLD AS POONTANG. HE HAD SOME THIS MORNING, IN FACT.
|1.8.09 @ 3:46PM|#
dbcooper - or use waste oil, which has already been used for
food.
There are hobbyist using that currently in US, I think? Quite cool,
but I doubt it'd scale.
There was an article published in Nature Biotechnology
today ("Biotech's green gold?") looking into the algal startups and
their claims. The gist of it was that near future tech has the
potential to yield ~6000 gal/acre/year with an increase to ~10000
theoretically possible (based on solar energy flux). It may be
possible to produce oil for $10 to 20 per barrel from open systems,
and $20 to 40 in a closed system.
There is however a lack of pilot scale trial data, and there are
lots of potential problems like competition from foreign strains
that enter the ponds/reactors, and the longevity of genetic
modifications in the algae.
Taking the total oil consumption of the US as 20x10^6 barrels/day,
and assuming you'd actually get 6000gal/acre/year, you'd need
~51x10^3 1000 acre farms, which works out as ~ 210x10^3 sq km. i.e.
an area just smaller than that of Utah! If you got
10000gal/acre/year that would reduce to about half the size of
Utah.
Might not be the ultimate for "energy independence" then.
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 3:51PM|#
NPR had a story recently about using waste beer and other alcohol products for ethanol. The Corporatists don't advertise it, they just pour it down the drain unless someone begs them for it.
Johnny Nowhere|1.8.09 @ 3:58PM|#
Pro Libertate,
I humbly request the addition of tamales to your list. They're like
portable polenta, so are much more useful to the modern
libertarian-on-the-go.
Zeb|1.8.09 @ 4:03PM|#
Hemp is a very good oil crop which can be cultivate in much
poorer soil than corn or other potential energy crops. Bio-diesel
is not going to fill all of our energy needs, but it is silly to
expect one thing to cure all. I favor the idea of de-centralized
and diverse energy production.
Of course, the down side to large scale hemp farming is that it
would ruin outdoor marijuana crops in the vicinity.
Realistically, if we want the marvelous technological future that
everyone likes to imagine, lots of nuclear seems to be the real
option.
|1.8.09 @ 4:04PM|#
coal oil is better than ethanol it burns clean,it has more btu's which means more mpg.coal to liquid start up is expensive but if oil is $40 a barrel it will pay for it's self.the air force used it in their jets and they found that it burned hotter and cleaner than straight jp8.they were using 50/50 mix that is diesel plus coal oil.
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 4:13PM|#
The capitalists don't want you all to know that they can make shoes from agave plants. In my workers paradise, there will be no place for tequila, bourbon, whiskey, etc. Only wholesome mineral water.
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 4:16PM|#
Zeb,
Have you read or seen any of Willie Nelson's research on hemp? You
were on the right track until you got to nuclear.
And at 4:13 I see my impersonator had to make another visit.
|1.8.09 @ 4:19PM|#
NPR had a story recently about using waste beer and other
alcohol products for ethanol.
Shyeah, right. Like there's such a thing as "waste" beer.
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 4:21PM|#
I herd it with my own ears. Bad batches of beer and spirits are pretty common from what the inventor of the home ethanol machine said.
|1.8.09 @ 4:23PM|#
Dear EWG, are you clear on who is coming to town and what states
he and his Ag-Sec designee represent?Those are corn-based subsidies
you were referring to right?
Can your political affairs folks say "timing"?
Lurker, what's your problem with noocular?
|1.8.09 @ 4:24PM|#
Shyeah, right. Like there's such a thing as "waste" beer.
Some call it. . .urine.
Other Matt|1.8.09 @ 4:25PM|#
There are hobbyist using that currently in US, I think?
Quite cool, but I doubt it'd scale.
There are, and they're trying like hell to not get caught. Seems
that the feds and the state believes that they should pay fuel
taxes on that old french fry oil.
Gotta get your cash somehow, I guess
damn it all|1.8.09 @ 4:26PM|#
Corn fuel blows. I have a 2001 Chevy S-10 that is "flex" fuel.
Meaning I pay a horrible price everytime I have to have my fuel
filter changed.
When i first got my truck I tried using the Ethanol. It gunked up
my truck, and I got less gas milage.
Corn is crap. And should be used for popcorn and tortillas, thats
about it.
Its hard on the soil.
And the ass.
Damn it.
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 4:28PM|#
Lurker, what's your problem with noocular?
Until the government takes control of it from the corporations it
will be too big of a hazard to use on a large scale. It should
peobably be a navy project.
|1.8.09 @ 4:28PM|#
Corn Chex? Well, I've been considering allowing a breakfast cereal. However, why should Corn Chex be allowed instead of Corn Flakes? Or even Corn Pops? Each has a powerful lobby that I must contend with.
|1.8.09 @ 4:32PM|#
Corn Flakes Mush? bah!
Corn Pops are for sissies, and small, unimportant children.
Corn Chex are a manly meal.
LurkerBold|1.8.09 @ 4:36PM|#
When i first got my truck I tried using the Ethanol. It
gunked up my truck, and I got less gas milage.
By gunking up your truck do you really mean that the superior
ethanol cleaned your fuel system of varnish, sludge and impurities
much better than any expensive fuel treatment and those impurities
were trapped by your fuel filter?
|1.8.09 @ 4:37PM|#
It's not good for the Corn Czar to admit this, but I don't think I'm up on all of the newfangled breakfast cereals. Would like to be Assistant Deputy Corn Czar, Breakfast Cereal Evaluation Division? You'll have a staff of fifty, but it only pays $250,000/year--sorry, that's all I can swing with an unlimited budget.
|1.8.09 @ 4:41PM|#
I don't have fifty out-of-work relatives; can I ghost half of
the staff, and split their salaries with you?
That's how it's done in Chicago, or so I've been told.
|1.8.09 @ 4:42PM|#
I wonder how EWG knows that the renewable energy sources its
wants to subsidize won't have similar unintended
consequences.
They do have unintended consequences of their own, but there's no
reason to believe they are of the same magnitude as ethanol's. And
it's not like the problems created by ethanol production were
unforeseeable.
|1.8.09 @ 4:44PM|#
That's how it works with Big Corn, too. Welcome aboard! I'll send Big Corn One to a nearby airport to collect you and your Corn Harem.
|1.8.09 @ 4:55PM|#
Until the government takes control of it from the
corporations it will be too big of a hazard to use on a large
scale.
For light and heavy water reactors, your statement is non-sensical.
Millions and millions of operating hours - no fatalities due to
reactor accident.
Zeb|1.8.09 @ 4:57PM|#
Isn't it about time someone unmasked LurkerBold, as they did with Neil? He is really boring and is becoming rather tiresome.
|1.8.09 @ 5:17PM|#
If I were Corn Czar, these would be the acceptable uses for
corn: corn-on-the-cob, cornbread, hushpuppies, fritters, popcorn,
whiskey and bourbon, masa products, grits, polenta, and maybe corn
oil. I will accept petitions proposing other uses, but be
forewarned that I don't expect to add much to this list.
I propose stalks (with ears attached) for Halloween decorations and
bird seed.
No, I won't kiss your damned ring.
|1.8.09 @ 5:20PM|#
Isn't it about time someone unmasked LurkerBold, as they did
with Neil? He is really boring and is becoming rather
tiresome.
Fuck that, who cares who the lame twit is? Just ignore the
imbecilic caricature of a leftist and he'll go away after
awhile.
|1.8.09 @ 5:23PM|#
No, I won't kiss your damned ring.
Then your request is refused!
This appointment has really opened my eyes to the political
process. It's somehow even more arbitrary than I used to think.
|1.8.09 @ 5:37PM|#
The flexfuel is so why GM should go out of business. To run on ethanol the engine needs to be modified to have higher compression, not just reprogram the fuel injectors to spray more (costly) fuel into cylinders.
Naga Sadow|1.8.09 @ 5:51PM|#
Pro Lib,
(goes to one knee and bows head) My lord. I humbly beseech you to
have all corn used for bourbon only. The price of good bourbon
would fall thereby helping your loyal retainers.
(kisses ring)
No Name Guy|1.8.09 @ 6:08PM|#
Re using waste cooking oil, etc as bio-diesel: Talk about one
tiny fraction of one percent of energy needs. Not even a drop in
the bucket.
Regarding the back of the envelope calc above on how many square
miles it would take to grow non-food based (e.g. algal).
A few questions for the environment uber alles crowd: Which Utah
sized parts of the country are you going to sacrafice to cover them
with the bio-reactors to grow all this fuel? How many endagered
species live in these areas? How much wilderness will be covered
over with endless miles of equipment, access roads and the like?
How does that environmental impact of the above compare with some
alternatives, like a few dozen drilling pads of a few acres each
and a couple hundred foot wide strip of pipeline through ANWAR? How
about compared to a few dozen nuke power plants? How about compared
to continuing to use coal, oil, nuke, etc?
Fundamentally, the above back of the envelope calc illustrates the
fallacy of most, if not all, of these so called sustainable /
renewable energy sources: They're incredibly diffuse and dispersed
and take up huge areas of land to capture more than trivial amounts
of energy.
But hey, no surprise there. The enviro whack job left in this
country goes to school for social work or journalism or other
similarily math deficient 'education'. Perhaps they should try
physics or engineering - they might then be able to figure out that
their preferred 'solutions' to problems are impractical.
|1.8.09 @ 6:32PM|#
Naga,
Hmmmm, there is much to what you say. I suppose I could just
reserve some corn for myself for cornbread and hushpuppies. Yes,
stimulate the economy and numb the senses of the public at the same
time. Worked for Stalin. . . .
I better meet with the President-Elect post haste.
BakedPenguin|1.8.09 @ 6:45PM|#
No Name Guy: admittedly, using all of the WVO in the country would only add up to a small portion of diesel used in this country. I never suggested it could replace petro diesel. But there no reason not to use it - a lot of WVO is just getting dumped in landfills.
Paul|1.8.09 @ 7:12PM|#
On my way into work this morning in uber-liberal Seattle, I
saw a SUV (ha!) with a tire cover that said: "Bio-diesel, no war
required"
No name guy,
Almost every morning when driving my daughter to school (in your
same town), I sit behind a woman in a Chevy Suburban with a bumber
sticker that reads "My other car is a hybrid". I'm beginning to
wonder if she's making a joke.
B|1.8.09 @ 9:14PM|#
After this report, I wonder if Obama will live up to his promise
to take politics out of the science decision making process and
ditch the ridiculous ethanol subsidies? If Iowa was ever stripped
of the absolutely ridicuolous amount of influence it wields because
of the Iowa caucuses, these subsidies would end tomorrow.
I think everyone who can breath knows the answer to the above
question, yet I doubt we will hear hand-wringing from scientists
the way we did during the Bush Administration. Nor do I think we
will see books with titles along the lines of "The Left's War on
Science", even though the left's stance on nuclear power, GM foods
and ethanol makes them every bit the anti-science luddites the
Republican Party supposedly is.
B|1.8.09 @ 9:16PM|#
"OHHH!!!! Can I be Che in that revolution? I always wanted to be
part of a cheesy marketing campaign after I die."
You can be Che as long as I am the one who gets to shoot you in
some far-off jungle.
|1.8.09 @ 10:04PM|#
the obvious place to grow algae for fuel would be the tropic oceans. Of course, you would prolly end up in a war with China, if you tried to claim vast tracts of ocean for bio-fuels, putting the lie to that no wars required bumper sticker
Neu Mejican|1.8.09 @ 10:05PM|#
No Name Guy,
But hey, no surprise there. The enviro whack job left in this
country goes to school for social work or journalism or other
similarily math deficient 'education'. Perhaps they should try
physics or engineering - they might then be able to figure out that
their preferred 'solutions' to problems are impractical.
You mean like this enviro whack job:
http://www.rmi.org/images/PDFs/StaffBios/BioALovins_Acorp_vi08.pdf
Dig into his work.
You will notice he doesn't use the back of a napkin to
calculate.
Neu Mejican|1.8.09 @ 10:10PM|#
Another on of those poorly educated enviro whack jobs...
http://www.fritjofcapra.net/bibliography.html
Neu Mejican|1.8.09 @ 10:10PM|#
Enviro whack job number three
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1969/gell-mann-bio.html
joe|1.8.09 @ 10:36PM|#
LurkerBold | January 8, 2009, 3:23pm | #
3:21pm are you the same person who impersonates joe when you don't
like what he says?
and at
LurkerBold | January 8, 2009, 3:29pm | #
3:21pm are you the same person who impersonates joe when you don't
like what he says?
So, why would liberal LurkerBold give a damn if irony troll commie
LurkerBold was joe, unless . . . .
(not joe's regular impersonator, but sense he is being
paranoid)
Guy Montag|1.9.09 @ 7:51AM|#
I am all for alternative fuels in the free market. Very opposed
to them under coertion from the government.
If it gives me more horsepower it must be good!
|1.9.09 @ 9:02AM|#
Nothing wrong with back of the envelope calculations. I doubt anyone could refute my one above for example ...
|1.9.09 @ 10:12AM|#
After this report, I wonder if Obama will live up to his
promise to take politics out of the science decision making process
and ditch the ridiculous ethanol subsidies?
That's odd. I don't wonder at all if Obama will live up to that
promise.
No Name Guy|1.9.09 @ 3:05PM|#
See, the thing with back of the envelope calcs, as DB implies,
is that they allow one to scope a problem to see if it's even in
the realm of possibility.
Bound the problem with (in engineering terms) conservative and
un-conservative (favorable) assumptions as to the various factors
and run the numbers in a simplified analysis to see what the
results are.
Doing this, DB illustrates the point that 'renewables' use vast
amounts of land.
I note no one bothered to address the questions I posed in my first
post, to wit: Which part of the country is going to be covered by
the bio-reactors? What's the environmental cost of doing this? How
does that compare to other alternatives?
Even if algal oil is used for only 10% or 5% of our needs, that
still raises the point (based on DB's numbers that it would take an
area the size of Utah): Which 10,000 to 20,000 square KM (that's
roughly 1/4 to 1/2 the size of Switzerland, by the way) in our
country is going to be covered with these things?
Baked: You're right - no sense in tossing the stuff away with the
cavet that if it can be recycled into bio-diesel at a profit. Also
right in that it'll never be anything more than a drop in the
bucket.
Well Neu - perhaps the exception proves the rule. The enviro's I
run across all too often here in Seattle are 'educated', but
couldn't solve the most basic math / science / engineering problems
to save their lives. They understand little to nothing of orders of
magnitue when looking at problems, 'the dose makes the poison' in
their paranoia on chemicals, radiation and Vitamin A, etc.
They know little to nothing of the fact that science is a process,
not a result, and that the only results of said process that matter
are being able to accurately, reliabily and repeatably being able
to predict the respose of the physical world that we inhabit to a
given set of input conditions.
solar panel diy|1.11.09 @ 1:04PM|#
i'm sure I read somewhere that bio fuels - whilst the smug middle classes pat themselves on the back for saving the environment - actually take up valuable crop space and contribute towards people in poor countries starving
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