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The Essence of Hypocrisy
In Florida Obama is six points ahead of McCain, and for some strange reason, Prop. 2, which would ban gay marriage and civil unions, is also ahead—by 20 points.
It's too early to call, as they say, but my guess is that a
large chunk of North Florida's Bible-beating hillbillies decided
they were fine with letting Barack Obama a
black man write off the mortgages on their trailers and give them
free health care, but not with allowing their
neighbors the queers in the rest of the state to
marry—or form legal domestic partnerships with—the
people they love other queers.
It's amazing to see which of their prejudices people are able to ignore when their own self-interests are at stake. Gay rights were so close...
UPDATE: The amendment to ban gay adoption in Arkansas is going like gang busters. McCain could have made this election about social issues and done much, much, better. Thank Spaghetti Monster, he didn't.
UPDATE: I'm looking at the county-by-county breakdown for Florida, and it seems I owe all the Bible-beating hillbillies an apology; Miami-Dade, Orange, and Broward (aka, the Gay Trifecta) are all reporting big support for Prop. 2.
UPDATE: In a bitter twist to the broader story, an evangelical family member who lives in Missouri is celebrating news that Grey's Anatomy axed its most prominent gay character. What a night.
(Final) UPDATE: Ben Smith on the likelihood that Prop 8 in California won't do much better than Prop 2 in Fla.:
California Democrats want Obama to win, but they're growing nervous tonight that a landslide back east could, perversely, help the state's conservatives pass an amendment barring same-sex marriage.
Their problem: If the presidential election appears over, it will likely depress the turnout, except among three groups: The social conservatives, and committed gay rights voters, going out to vote on Proposition Eight; and African-Americans, who are expected to come out to vote for the first black president even if his victory is all but assured.
And California polling suggests that black voters will back Proposition Eight. The last Field Poll had it at 49 to 43 percent in that community.
Some Democrats remember Jimmy Carter's early concession in 1980, which was devastating for local races in the West. So they may be hoping McCain pulls out a state or two back East.
UPDATE: There are indications of a robocall aiming to deliver this message, and suppress California votes. Jonathan Martin has four readers reporting it.
SIV|11.4.08 @ 8:32PM|#
Mike,
Go fuck yourself asshole.
Obama officially opposes gay marriage, as do most African
Americans.
Hayekian Dreamer|11.4.08 @ 8:36PM|#
SIV - True, but I think Mike's point was that Prop 2 bans gay marriage AND civil unions (which Obama claims to support) as well.
Telling it like it is.|11.4.08 @ 8:38PM|#
"North Florida's Bible-beating hillbillies decided they were
fine with letting a black man write off the mortgages on their
trailers and give them free health care...,"
Well said. Very well said. The same attitude applies to the entire
Obama tribe.
|11.4.08 @ 8:39PM|#
It's amazing (and sad) to see which of their prejudices
people are able to ignore when their own self-interests are at
stake.
Ha ha, no it's not. Prejudices are a luxury that can be discarded
at any time. People just like having them, so they don't ignore
them without a reason.
|11.4.08 @ 8:46PM|#
Another possibility is low-information first-time voters who
only voted for Obama and didn't mark the rest of the ballot.
I dunno if this happened at all, but it's certainly a
possibility.
|11.4.08 @ 8:46PM|#
I wasn't referencing all of NF, just the area's Bible-beating hillbillies; of which (i'm assuming) you're not one, seeing as you know how to use a computer.
|11.4.08 @ 8:47PM|#
Epi-
I'm chillin' on what may be decriminalized here by night's end. The
culmination of the political season does have some people at the
end of their rope. I have posted some lighter commnents on other
threads-but most folks are sticking to the serious stuff.
kicstart|11.4.08 @ 8:47PM|#
SIV:
What's with the hate?
It could have something to do with your brief diatribe about
"bible-beating trailer park hillbillies" followed up by a sad head
shake at other people's prejudices.
I was more bemused than angry, but to each his own.
|11.4.08 @ 8:48PM|#
Don't you think it's a bit prejudiced to say that the people who are voting for prop 2 are necessarily poor people who live in trailers, or even the people whose homes have been foreclosed? It's a bit presumptuous. You don't know how the votes were distributed, or why people voted a certain way.
Elemenope|11.4.08 @ 8:48PM|#
I wasn't referencing all of NF, just the area's
Bible-beating hillbillies; of which (i'm assuming) you're not one,
seeing as you know how to use a computer.
That's a harsh win.
|11.4.08 @ 8:49PM|#
I'm chillin' on what may be decriminalized here by night's
end.
I hope it succeeds, mike. Though how you can stand to live in Mass
in any case is beyond me :-)
Elemenope|11.4.08 @ 8:49PM|#
Speaking of gay marriage, what's up with the ad of Biden's ear being seductively nibbled on by McCain?
Andy|11.4.08 @ 8:50PM|#
Actually, I would have more respect for people who wanted govt involved in their economic and social lives. At least it's consistent. Scary as hell, but consistent.
duderman|11.4.08 @ 8:52PM|#
What's this?
Social conservatism preserved but now coupled with liberal
economics? Got buyer's remorse already?
Andy|11.4.08 @ 8:53PM|#
Actually, both major parties already believe govt should be involved in the economic and social realms. I almost fell for that stupid shit about Republicans wanting govt out of the economy, and Democrats wanting govt out of our social lives. I'm an idiot.
SIV|11.4.08 @ 8:53PM|#
Outside of Tallahassee I doubt Obama is winning the northernmost regions of the Sunshine State.
John S.|11.4.08 @ 8:53PM|#
Obama officially opposes gay marriage, as do most African
Americans.
Polls show that blacks are the most anti-gay people in America. I
won't be holding my breath for Reason to denounce religious blacks
as a group the way they do "hillbillies."
|11.4.08 @ 8:53PM|#
SIV:
What's with the hate?
Team red is getting its ass deservedly kicked and SIV is a GOP
fanboy. He takes it out on others. With a little luck, I'll be
next. ;-)
I don't see the split as hypocrisy. Compartmentalization might be a
better description.
|11.4.08 @ 8:54PM|#
McCain also has a mortgage bailout plan. In fact he's the one who wants to stop all foreclosures. The man is insane.
|11.4.08 @ 9:00PM|#
"McCain also has a mortgage bailout plan. In fact he's the one
who wants to stop all foreclosures. The man is insane."
Arizona is a hotbed of bad mortgages. He's just looking forward to
his next senate run.
Kaiser|11.4.08 @ 9:02PM|#
Elemenope
Speaking of gay marriage, what's up with the ad of Biden's ear being seductively nibbled on by McCain?
I saw the same ad and proceeded to erupt with laughter.
|11.4.08 @ 9:04PM|#
Epi-
A one time Massachusetts chair of the libertarian state committee
once told me, "Michael, the cause of liberty needs you here." I
might add that my wife has ordained that I am required here until
she deems otherwise.
|11.4.08 @ 9:04PM|#
It is amazing we have people as ignorant as Mike. The highest elevation in Florida is 345 ft, so they are obviously rednecks not hillbillies.
Mad Max|11.4.08 @ 9:08PM|#
The proposed Florida amendment:
"Inasmuch as marriage is the legal union of only one man and one
woman as husband and wife, no other legal union that is treated as
marriage or the substantial equivalent thereof shall be valid or
recognized."
Sen. Obama on same-sex marriage:
"I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious
beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I
do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that
marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."
Voters who take Obama at his word (ignoring his actual voting
history and obvious mental reservations) can consistently support
both the amendment and Sen. Obama. Even if they recognize that
Obama's double-talk, they can consistently vote for Obama *in
spite,* not because of, his waffling on marriage.
SIV|11.4.08 @ 9:09PM|#
J sub,
No this is the same reason I called out joe on saying a racially
stereotyped Republican mailer was "in some Southern State" when it
was from California.
|11.4.08 @ 9:11PM|#
SIV | November 4, 2008, 8:43pm | #
What is with the bigoted stereotyping of North Floridians?
I lived in Okaloosa county for 15 years and it's a veritable hotbed
of enlightenment compared to Walton, Holmes or god forbid Dixie
counties.
But bible-thumping rednecks (hillbillies require hills) aren't
solely to blame. Old retired New Yorkers in S.Fla are very socially
conservative and have the highest voter turnout. That'd most likely
be where your Democrat/Gay Marriage disconnect is coming from.
SIV|11.4.08 @ 9:23PM|#
Riggs,
Thanks for the update and apology.I'll accept on behalf of those
NFLA rednecks who can't use computers.The voting ones don't like
Obama or gay marriage.
|11.4.08 @ 9:23PM|#
UPDATE: I'm looking at the county-by-county breakdown for Florida, and it seems I owe all the Bible-beating hillbillies an apology; Miami-Dade, Orange, and Broward (aka, the Gay Trifecta) are all reporting big support for Prop. 2.
Like I was sayin', old Jews and Catholics who retired to trailers
in Florida are a) just as socially conservative as they get and b)
the only reason Florida isn't consistently Red.
armchairpunter|11.4.08 @ 10:15PM|#
Quit hating on the theists, spaghetti monster worshiper.
Presuming to know that there is no higher power is not a
prerequisite to being a libertarian.
Get your demographics straightened out, too. The gay marriage issue
resonates with a whole host of folks from different backgrounds. In
Florida, you'll find rural and suburban white conservative
Christians, Latino, Vietnamese and other Roman Catholics, socially
conservative rural and urban African Americans, etc.
Activist courts who seek to force this issue and those like you who
seek to bash and marginalize those who have difficulty with this
issue due to sincerely held beliefs and deeply ingrained social
patterns are doing a profound disservice to their cause. People
will not be bullied on this issue.
yingge|11.4.08 @ 10:18PM|#
wow power leveling
The eyes of the international Counter-Strike and World of Warcraft
communities will be focused north of the
49th parallel
wow gold - World of
Warcraft: EM Montreal Viewers Guide
this weekend as the city of Montreal will be play host to the third
ESL Extreme Masters Global Challenge.
This marks the
first time that a Canadian city will host an international
Counter-Strike and World of Warcraft event.
wow power
leveling
The Extreme Masters Global Challenge will feature top international
wow gold - World of Warcraft: EM
Montreal Viewers Guide Counter-Strike teams such as SK Gaming,
Fnatic and Made
in Brazil. They will be joining several Canadian and American teams
that include Gravitas Gaming (formerly
X3O), Evil
Geniuses USA and Evil Geniuses Canada.
reply to this
|11.5.08 @ 1:12AM|#
Wow. Is this a joke? Did you come up with this hateful, ignorant diatribe just to get attention?
Gene Callahan|11.5.08 @ 4:20AM|#
"Thank Spaghetti Monster, he didn't."
Four of the greatest philosophers in Western Culture, Pythagoras.
Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, all arrived at monotheism
despite the cultural resistance they faced in doing s.(One
of them, in fact, died for his opposition to polytheism.) Anyone
who embraces the faddish "spaghetti monster" trope as an equivalent
to belief in monotheism puts themselves on display as compete
theological moro.
Gene Callahan|11.5.08 @ 4:23AM|#
My remote keyboard seems to be dropping letters tonight -- of course, I meant "so" not 's', and 'a moron' not 'moro'.
Abdul|11.5.08 @ 8:01AM|#
Here's a clue: you will never win over mainstream Americans by insisting that only "Bible-thumping hillbillies" oppose same sex marriage.
the innominate one|11.5.08 @ 8:06AM|#
Gene, I think you meant "moran".
Mike Riggs - I'm a peninsular native and lifelong resident of
Florida. As to this: "large chunk of North Florida's Bible-beating
hillbillies", I say: nice burn. I lived in Jacksonville for 7
years, and I say that the peninsula should secede from the north
and the panhandle and give them to Georgia and Alabama.
armchairpunter|11.5.08 @ 3:02PM|#
You know, there was a time when the hillbillies attempted to secede from the rest of the country. If memory serves, the rest of the country decided they'd rather keep them around.
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