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First, They Came for the Fat-Fuck Gamers in New Mexico...
...and because I was a fat fuck non-gamer, I did
nothing.
Kerry Howley mentioned this awhile ago, but New Mexico--a.k.a. The Land of Enchantment--is mulling like a zaftig patron the whole left side of a menu at a Wendy's a proposal for a "1 percent tax on TVs, video games, and video game equipment. The fund would help pay for outdoor education throughout the state."
The name of the program: The No Child Left Inside Fund, which really makes it sound like Pol Pot is advising New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, who could, you know, afford to step away from the buffet line every other meal.
An AP story today, however, makes it clear that eventually this law, or something like it, will pass. Here's the anti-argument, which makes total sense and will be totally unconvincing once the Coach Kleatses of the world start snapping legislative jockstraps to force Piggy to literally take a hike.
[Dave] Gilligan, [the 24-year-old co-owner of the store Gamers Anonymous], says he learned to read at a young age thanks to video games. He also attributes his interest in art to gaming.
It's a sound argument--and let's not even get into that whole life, liberty, and the pursuit of Halo 3 baddies--and one that will, alas, certainly lose in the long run.
Interesting National Bureau of Economic Research paper on the net effect of gym classes on kids' body mass indices (you get one guess and it's zero of course) here.
K-12 physical education requirements nationwide here.
|2.1.08 @ 8:09AM|#
...mulling like a zaftig patron the whole left side of a
menu...
Nice Diner reference. He's like a building with feet!
|2.1.08 @ 8:12AM|#
Here's the one and only argument.Taxing certain segments of society to fund programs for societal wants of public officials is evil.Pure and simple.
|2.1.08 @ 8:26AM|#
"Those who know what's best for us, must rise and save us from
ourselves..."
RUSH reference in anticipation of Prog Friday.
|2.1.08 @ 8:31AM|#
1. I live in New Mexico
2. I'm a gamer
3. I'm also a school teacher
4. I'm also not a fat fuck!... I'm not a glutton and I don't
exercise... I have a mental super power to know when I'm hungry and
know when I'm full... people still complain about how skinny I am
and I don't think anyone should be forced to run unless they're
being chased... This whole bill proposal it just another ridiculous
way to get reasonable adults to fund the health and longevity of
unreasonable, haphazard and illegitimate parents.
Episiarch|2.1.08 @ 8:36AM|#
Sounds more like a stealth way of putting the hurt on those
evil, evil, violent games, which several groups have wanted to do
for a long time but the First Amendment stopped them.
Expect them to champion this everywhere.
|2.1.08 @ 8:39AM|#
Sounds more like a stealth way of putting the hurt on those
evil, evil, violent games, which several groups have wanted to do
for a long time but the First Amendment stopped them.
Expect them to champion this everywhere.
Wasn;t vid game violence a subject oif affection for our soon-to-be
first female president?
Fluffy|2.1.08 @ 8:39AM|#
Well, right now education in most states is funded by a tax on
real property.
If it's OK to single out real property as the target of an
education tax, it's OK to single out video games and TV's as the
target of an education tax.
I know that the logic of apparently blaming video games for fat
kids is offensive, but as pure tax policy separate from the
rhetoric about the policy, it's no more offensive than the existing
system.
BakedPenguin|2.1.08 @ 8:39AM|#
a Wendy's a proposal for a "1 percent tax on TVs, video games, and video game equipment emphasis added
Was this a joke that went over my head? I didn't see the Wendy's
connection...
gaijin - something (not the
song you mentioned, tho) just in case Weigel puts up some Gentle
Giant or something
|2.1.08 @ 8:41AM|#
It's also a good way for busybodies to "Do something" while getting someone else to foot the bill.
|2.1.08 @ 8:51AM|#
Here's the problem with the political process: passing
legislation is just job justification. I mean, someone elected the
bastards, so the bastards feel they can't just sit on their hands
all day.
I remember meeting a legislative aid one day who just glowed about
the "creative" legislation he dreamed up all day with the other
staff.
|2.1.08 @ 8:54AM|#
Don't get me wrong: I'm against this silly tax too, but when you draw a line from a sales tax to Pol Pot, you're deep in Ayn Rand cult follower territory. We're only talking about a bad idea here, not the end of liberty.
Tym|2.1.08 @ 8:59AM|#
Maybe those who are fat from playing video games should try the trendy new diet, it's called eat right and exercise.
|2.1.08 @ 9:01AM|#
Fluffy,how is this education?I don't agree with property taxes for education, but in my mind that means reading,math ,history ect.I've had over weight employees that were very productive and fit[by government standards]who were a waste of space.How you live as far as eating,drinking and exercise is none of anyones concern except your own or you parents.
JayDubya|2.1.08 @ 9:01AM|#
As a certified Fat-Fuck Gamer, I must say I find this news
saddening. For too long have we endured the growing hordes of the
Skinny-Fuck Gamer - you see it at D&D tables and LAN parties
across the land. It's a damn shame, really. :'(
The government is trying to wipe us out, and only Mr. Gillespie has
had the courage to come to our aid.
Seriously though, fuck Pigovian taxes. Fuck the very notion of
"public health."
alisa|2.1.08 @ 9:10AM|#
instafaggot --
No, it's not the end of liberty. But somebody needs to kick up a
stink. People here forget that out in the mainstream, it's assumed
that government is there to make the world a better place and all
of us better people.
Pol Pot this isn't. But maybe Miranda .
Jennifer|2.1.08 @ 9:18AM|#
Shouldn't they also tax books as well? Turning pages hardly qualifies as calorie-burning exercise.
sv|2.1.08 @ 9:19AM|#
Hit&Run, cataloguing every inch of our daily slide down the slippery slope towards a more totalitarian state.
Jennifer|2.1.08 @ 9:32AM|#
Don't get me wrong: I'm against this silly tax too, but when
you draw a line from a sales tax to Pol Pot, you're deep in Ayn
Rand cult follower territory. We're only talking about a bad idea
here, not the end of liberty.
Stupid laws don't exist in a vacuum. What, do you think they're
going to say "Now that we've passed this fat tax we will henceforth
be sensible and wise? And don't worry, there's no way future
lawmakers will view this as a precedent for something even more
idiotic."
It's like a tumor; you need to remove it when it's small, because
once it grows up it'll be too big to handle.
|2.1.08 @ 9:40AM|#
I live in New Mexico.
Here's the un-PC truth:
Most kids here are not fat. In fact, NM overall is a pretty healthy
place and always ranks highly in the lists of healthy states.
Most of the fat kids belong to the Native American community, with
some Latino fatties, though really, not all that many. The majority
of our Aborigine population is obese, their kids are obese.
Is this primarily the fault of video games? I really can't believe
that. It certainly isn't for all the adults. I think that there is
a diet lifestyle thing going on and that that particular ethnic
group really is not concerned about being overweight.
Windypundit|2.1.08 @ 9:40AM|#
"Hit&Run, cataloguing every inch of our daily slide down
the slippery slope towards a more totalitarian state."
Perfect. That just became the new summary of Hit&Run in my
blogroll.
|2.1.08 @ 9:42AM|#
Seriously though, fuck Pigovian taxes. Fuck the very notion of "public health."
Maybe an economist can help here, but I'm not sure this kind of tax
really counts as Pigovian. The connection between video games and
obesity is indirect at best (unless kids have started eating the
games), and I thought Pigovian taxes were taxes on behavior or
items that were directly related to the problem they were trying to
solve. A tax on pollution to prevent it and generate money to fight
smog seems to be Pigovian, whereas a tax on video games to prevent
obesity seems like politicians just finding yet another way to tax
shit.
adrian|2.1.08 @ 9:50AM|#
this is why when you hear anyone say 'the public good' you should punch them in the face.
The Democratic Republican|2.1.08 @ 9:57AM|#
instafaggot -- I think the "Pol Pot" reference was to the name of the program (No Child Left Indoors)
Slim|2.1.08 @ 9:59AM|#
Fat fucks aren't nice to look at, but they die younger and leave more for the rest of us, so the do-gooders nanny nazis should just leave them alone. Okay, maybe a rule that no one has to sit next to one on an airplane. I might support legislation that imposes a curfew on the grossly obese, but that's it. Let them have their cake.
|2.1.08 @ 10:02AM|#
"a legislative aid one day who just glowed about the "creative"
legislation he dreamed up all day with the other staff."
If they're bored, can't they sit around thinking creative ways to
repeal bad laws? I mean, it does have to be crafted in such a way
the bureaucrats recognize how to implement appropriately (too much
to ask?), but in such a way the legislators who wrote the laws
originally don't know they're being undercut, otherwise they'd
block or write newer, worse versions.
|2.1.08 @ 10:03AM|#
Airlines should institute wide seat rows. Instead of three seats per side, they have two and are designated for passengers who flop over into other seats. Price accordingly.
|2.1.08 @ 10:05AM|#
Whoo hoo! We've made it all the way to 10:00am on a Friday and
Balko hasn't pissed me off with another botched SWAT raid story...
yet.
Small victories. Take 'em where you can get 'em.
CB
|2.1.08 @ 10:06AM|#
"Hit&Run, cataloguing every inch of our daily slide down the
slippery slope towards a more totalitarian state."
-- while relentlessly bashing the only truly libertarian candidate
on the national scene.
MK|2.1.08 @ 10:12AM|#
-- while relentlessly bashing the only truly libertarian--albeit racist nazi scum-- candidate on the national scene.
|2.1.08 @ 10:15AM|#
How you live as far as eating,drinking and exercise is none
of anyones concern except your own or you parents.
In case you forgot, we all currently pay for each others health
care thru taxes and insurance.
So, just so you know, it damm well is the governments business to
make you healthy because otherwise it is unfair for those who are
healthy to pay for fat folks health insurance. If not the
government, how else do you plan to implement social
engineering?
If this tax discourages video game use and healthy lifestyles for
Americas children then I'm all for it.
|2.1.08 @ 10:21AM|#
[Dave] Gilligan, [the 24-year-old co-owner of the store
Gamers Anonymous], says he learned to read at a young age thanks to
video games. He also attributes his interest in art to
gaming.
Makes sense. My youngest child learned to read at age 3 by playing
Zoo Tycoon. (He's 6 now, and still as skinny as a rail, by the way,
even though he spends most of his free time in front of the Game
Cube and the computer.)
Yeah, and what about Dance Dance Revolution? Shouldn't that get
a pass?
When my children talk about Dance Dance Revolution, they refer to
it as "DDR," which makes me think for a moment that they're talking
about something for the East German Olympic team.
Taktix®|2.1.08 @ 10:21AM|#
-- while relentlessly bashing the only truly libertarian
candidate on the national scene.
OK, I know there are already way too many rules for the
drinking game, but this one deserves special merit. Therefore, I
declare that a drink is prompted any time someone says
"reason is bashing/attacking the only libertarian
candidate."
Paul is libertarian-ish, but increasingly unconvincingly so,
damaging to the libertarian movement as a whole, and likely
engaging in the same cronyism that corrupts so many other
politicians, be they left, right or whatever.
Rene|2.1.08 @ 10:24AM|#
Isn't this a free market publication? Why on earth would
ANYONE
support more taxes to support a lifestyle choice of certain
politicians or special interest groups? Especially, in a
poverty-ridden state that is already being taxed to death.
Tym|2.1.08 @ 10:26AM|#
Airlines should institute wide seat rows. Instead of three
seats per side, they have two and are designated for passengers who
flop over into other seats. Price accordingly.
They do, it's called first class.
|2.1.08 @ 10:27AM|#
I played video games excessively as a child and was athletic the
whole time. Of course, that's because I had free time after school
to do what the heck I wanted. No pre-planned, government-authorized
"structure" for me! Woo, hoo!
I also read a lot, which raises the question of why books aren't
also being taxed to subsidize outdoor activities.
I'm so tired of my money being stolen from me for trivia. Or even
for important things. Want a stronger economy and faster
technological advance? Let us keep most of our money. Also, if we
were richer, we'd be skinnier. Everyone knows that.
Scooby|2.1.08 @ 10:30AM|#
Nick, most airlines have that already. It's called "First Class"
or "Business Class".
Southwest doesn't have that, but did catch hell for requiring
fatties that spill over into the next seat to buy an extra
ticket.
|2.1.08 @ 10:49AM|#
Sorry for forgetting the sarcasm tag. I did not mean to add three unnecessary posts to this thread. My bad.
GILMORE|2.1.08 @ 10:49AM|#
Cant we just tax the fatties?
I mean, why blame the games? Why not have higher rates of
income-gouging for people whose BMI is over 30? Save us skinny folk
the grief!
GILMORE|2.1.08 @ 10:53AM|#
plus, do we have the entire rule-list for the drinking game
available?
I know, the "for a magazine called..." one. And the subscription
cancelling one.
Also, we need to add in layers. Like, when lonewacko posts,
everyone has to go, "ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA
ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA
ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA ARRIBA !!
|2.1.08 @ 10:53AM|#
Actually now that I think about it, they really should institute
the wider seats in coach and require anyone exceeding the seat
width to sit there and pay for them. They already have those little
carry-on boxes to make sure your bags fit, why not the same for
husky travelers?
First class is expensive because of the service, implied privacy,
and snobbery that goes with being able to afford it.
GILMORE|2.1.08 @ 10:54AM|#
plus the H&R site should play cheesy MIDI-mariachi music on repeat when he posts
GILMORE|2.1.08 @ 10:59AM|#
Did anyone know that 'first class' is called 'upper class' on British Airway flights? i dont know if this is still the deal, but i remember once i was going over there, and i bothered the flight attendant, "Madam, I attended Eton, and read maths at Oxford, and i have here proofs of my lineage as the 3rd son of the eleventh Earl of Shropshire. I am appalled at the conditions of these peasants! Please forward my correspondence to the court to see that I am appropriately given a seat in the upper chambers amongst my peers"
|2.1.08 @ 11:00AM|#
To all of you fatties and couch potatoes who did nothing when
the nanny-staters came after the smokers -
You would probably like our support nowadays. You'll get mine, but
don't be surprised when it turns out to be a small minoroty of
smokers who give a damn about your filthy, disgusting, unhealthy
behavior getting taxed.
What goes around ...
GILMORE|2.1.08 @ 11:05AM|#
Taktix® | February 1, 2008, 10:57am |
Ay yai yai! Mediodía me intoxicaré!
Jiminy|2.1.08 @ 11:06AM|#
Not to be a prude, but many of us access Hit&Run from our
jobs or our businesses, etc. Is it too much to ask that Reason not
use profanities in headlines?
I'm being serious here. Why is that headline even necessary?
Jiminy|2.1.08 @ 11:08AM|#
To be precise, and before someone corrects me, I guess today's headline would be an obscenity or vulgarity, not a profanity.
Miggs|2.1.08 @ 11:14AM|#
If your employer is that hysterical, you might want to consider staying off non-job related internet sites all together. Just sayin'.
Neu Mejican|2.1.08 @ 11:35AM|#
Most of the fat kids belong to the Native American
community, with some Latino fatties, though really, not all that
many. The majority of our Aborigine population is obese, their kids
are obese.
That impression doesn't seem correct. Particularly the concept of
the majority of the Aborigine population being obese.
Here are the first actual figures I found.
Rates are higher in the Pueblo community (not included below), for
sure, but "most of the fat kids" doesn't ring true to me. But what
do I know. I only spent the first half of my career working in with
Pueblo kids.
57% of New Mexico adults are overweight or obese. (CDC BRFSS,
2002)
17% of non-Hispanic white adults and 22% of Hispanic adults in New
Mexico are obese. (CDC BRFSS, 2002)
The obesity rate among New Mexico adults increased by 100% between
1990 and 2002. (CDC BRFSS, 1990, 2002)
26% of New Mexico high school students are overweight or at risk of
becoming overweight. (NM Survey of High School Students,
2001)
22% of low-income children between 2 and 5 years of age in New
Mexico are overweight or at risk of becoming overweight. (CDC
PedNSS, 2002)
Neu Mejican|2.1.08 @ 11:40AM|#
it's assumed that government is there to make the world a
better place and all of us better people.
There seems to be two assertions here.
1) government is there to make the world a better place -- sounds
like an accurate description of the intended role of
government.
2)government is there to make us all better people -- doesn't sound
like a role I have ever heard advocated for government...even from
the far left.
|2.1.08 @ 11:53AM|#
1) government is there to make the world a better place --
sounds like an accurate description of the intended role of
government.
Way overbroad. Allows, nay, requires, the government to engage in
every nanny state social engineering scheme there ever was.
2)government is there to make us all better people -- doesn't
sound like a role I have ever heard advocated for government...even
from the far left.
There are plenty of folks trying to use government for just this
purpose. Every sin tax and every burden on victimless behavior is
driven by this.
The Communists, bless them, were quite explicit about remaking man
into a proper little collectivist - New Soviet Man and all
that.
|2.1.08 @ 12:00PM|#
government is there to make us all better people -- doesn't
sound like a role I have ever heard advocated for government...even
from the far left.
From the left - Numerous education initiatives, sin taxes,
...
From the right, faith based initiatives, the war on drugs, ...
Thomas Paine\'s Goiter|2.1.08 @ 12:11PM|#
It watches prosperity as its prey, and permits none to escape without a tribute….
Shouldn\'t you be working?|2.1.08 @ 12:11PM|#
Is it too much to ask that Reason not use profanities in
headlines?
Yes.
Now fuck off.
Franklin Harris|2.1.08 @ 12:51PM|#
It occurs to me that we libertarians need to adopt the methods
of our opponents. Therefore, I shall refer to the proponents of The
No Child Left Inside Fund as the Big Skin Cancer lobby.
Why do these people want to force our children outside where they
are exposed to potentially dangerous levels of solar radiation?
Won't someone think of the children?
Neu Mejican|2.1.08 @ 1:27PM|#
RC Dean,
"a better place" does not = a perfect place.
Government can make the world a better place by creating a stable
legal framework for property ownership, dispute resolution, and
consensual trade, etc...
The premise that government's role is not to make the world a
better place suggests that government's role is to make it a worse
place.
You can argue all you want about whether or not that is the impact
of government, but it is certainly not the intent.
|2.1.08 @ 3:41PM|#
Government can make the world a better place by creating a
stable legal framework for property ownership, dispute resolution,
and consensual trade, etc...
Sure, but an open-ended "Better Place" mandate opens the door to a
hell of a lot more than that.
|2.1.08 @ 3:57PM|#
The premise that government's role is not to make the world
a better place suggests that government's role is to make it a
worse place.
No. The premise that government's role is not to make the world a
better place suggests that government's role is to allow
individuals to make the world the place they want it to be.
...Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...
Neu Mejican|2.1.08 @ 5:19PM|#
MikeP,
I know you know that "allowing" is not a role that should be
assigned to government.
Governments role is to do things...those things should make the
world better. They should not interfere with your attempts to do
things that also improve the world.
Repeat. Government's role is not to allow...it is to do.
Neu Mejican|2.1.08 @ 5:22PM|#
Let me rephrase to avoid a misreading.
It is not government role to allow...it is governments role to
do...
Don\'t want no trouble aqui|2.1.08 @ 5:26PM|#
Neu Mejican,
The way the stats are presented tell a lot:
" 57% of New Mexico adults are overweight or obese. (CDC BRFSS,
2002)
17% of non-Hispanic white adults and 22% of Hispanic adults in New
Mexico are obese. (CDC BRFSS, 2002)"
Clearly avoids making a statement about the Native population. I
have read recent stats somewhere that more than 40% of the puebloan
population is obese.
But what do I know. I only know what I see with my lying eyes.
|2.1.08 @ 5:53PM|#
It is not government role to allow...it is governments role
to do...
Okay, let me rephrase:
Government's role is to do what is required to
allow individuals to make the world the place they want it to
be.
Even your earlier examples of what government's can do to make the
world a better place constrain themselves to this mission
statement:
Government can make the world a better place by creating a
stable legal framework for property ownership, dispute resolution,
and consensual trade, etc...
Neu Mejican|2.1.08 @ 6:37PM|#
MikeP,
Let's rephrase one more time.
Government's role is to facilitate the activities of individuals as
they attempt to make the world a better place...
Nah, sounds wrong.
No-trouble-aqui
Clearly avoids making a statement about the Native population.
I have read recent stats somewhere that more than 40% of the
puebloan population is obese.
Probably more a matter of not having the figure than avoiding it.
These stats were from a site trying to make the case if was a
problem. If they had figures indicating a bigger problem, they
would have included them.
And, again, my own experience working with the Keresan Pueblo
population isn't the same as having actual figures, but the
majority is clearly not obese, and I would guess the 40% figure is
high as well. The main claim I was refuting was the one indicating
that "most fat kids are aboriginal."
Neu Mejican|2.1.08 @ 6:51PM|#
Here's the first reliable figure I could find.
The prevalence of obesity was higher among female Zuni Indians
(34.3% [30.9-37.7]) than male Zuni Indians (21.5% [18.4-24.7]) (P
< 0.001).
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/1/55
Neu Mejican|2.1.08 @ 6:52PM|#
More comprehensive, but a bit outta date.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/69/4/747S/T1
alisa|2.1.08 @ 9:08PM|#
"The premise that government's role is not to make the world a
better place suggests that government's role is to make it a worse
place."
Well, of course not. "Making the world a better place" was my
sloppy shorthand for social engineering and a generally expansive
view of government's duty to influence behavior. I wouldn't deny
that the government can make the world better by, say, enforcing
property rights. The thing is, most people -- liberals,
conservatives, moderates -- are happy for the government to punish
or tax anything they find personally distasteful. And we don't
always do a good job of communicating why that's not okay.
|2.2.08 @ 3:27AM|#
I have two sons who type about 90 words per minute. I attribute
their typing skill to video games. Neither of them are fat, with
both at about 5% body fat; I attribute that to genetics, in fact I
attribute most things to genetics.
My daughter is a good typist as well, though not as good as either
son. She does not play video games.
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