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Gillespie & Welch Chatting Live Today at 12 Noon at Wash Post about Ron Paul, Libertarians, and More
reason's Nick Gillespie and Matt Welch will be chatting live at the Wash Post's website, talking about their Sunday Outlook section piece on Ron Paul, libertarians, and much more.
The fun begins at 12 noon ET and you can follow along--or ask questions--by going here.
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 11:23AM|#
I don't wish to sound stupid, but where is the link for the show
on their website?
(Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know I've opened this one up for some crushing
ad hominems from all the Dondero-bashers.)
Guy Montag|11.27.07 @ 11:43AM|#
Nick,
Don't confuse the lad, re. Eric.
Also, during the live chat, can you give us some details on the
border death ray system? Is it an adaptation from that laser-based
IED destructor or is it more like the Missile Defense Agency
airborne anti-missile thingie? If either, are the current troops
using it(them) going to simply be redeployed to the southern USA
border? What about both of our Canadian borders?
Is it going to be paid for in gold or in silver? If in silver will
it be a real transaction or will the Montana Freemen have claim on
the technology?
Biggest question: Does Dr. Paul recognise Ohio as a State!? (big
impact on that IRS question and how fast he thinks he can get rid
of it)
|11.27.07 @ 11:47AM|#
This should be interesting, informative and fun. Other than the
Post's site and Hit & Run, did y'all promulgate this around the
blogosphere?
Just curious.
picaro|11.27.07 @ 11:51AM|#
Do you foresee a time when mass-media will no longer be accepted as a legitimizing force / king-maker in U.S. presidential elections?
Timothy|11.27.07 @ 11:54AM|#
DONDEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
The donkey show? It is in Tijuana, but I thought you knew that
already.
DONDEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Guy Montag|11.27.07 @ 11:57AM|#
I just placed the above series of questions from my 11:43am
comment.
We will see if the politics of silence will continue on
these important issues!
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 11:58AM|#
I have gone to the link numerous times. All that comes up is a
web page for some political reporter named Shannon.
There is no link for the broadcast.
drawnasunder|11.27.07 @ 12:00PM|#
so where's the freakin' video? that page just describes the event, doesn't show it
drawnasunder|11.27.07 @ 12:01PM|#
by "chatting" you mean "typing"?
live blogging a conversation? lame.
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 12:02PM|#
Right. I'm having the same problem. Where's the audio? I just see chat.
Stephen Gordon|11.27.07 @ 12:06PM|#
I asked a couple of questions, we'll see if they get though the screeners.
Stephen Gordon|11.27.07 @ 12:08PM|#
That "chat" interface is pretty ghetto :-)
It's absolutely lame.
drawnasunder|11.27.07 @ 12:11PM|#
Hey, I'm online too! I can "chat" too!
Let's continue this chat here:
Topic: Washington Post "Live Discussions" suck because:
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 12:12PM|#
Okay, so you're saying this is not as advanced as Blog Talk
Radio? There is no audio? It's just chat.
Sheesh! Call me stupid, but that's so 1990s.
Stephen Gordon|11.27.07 @ 12:16PM|#
They took Donderooooooooo's question:
"Why do Gillisepie and Matt Welch equate a non-interventionist
foreign policy with libertarianism? Goldwater founded the
libertarian movement. He was pro-Defense. How can defacto support
for Islamo-Fascism be considered "libertarian" in any way? After
all, Radical Muslims want to force women to wear the burqa, outlaw
free speech especially for newspapers, throw gay people in jail and
crack down on all political disent. How is that consistent with
being a libertarian?"
...but they won't take mine.
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 12:19PM|#
Yeah, and they gave an absolutely weak-ass response. Total bullshit. I've just lost a lot of respect for Gillespie.
Guy Montag|11.27.07 @ 12:19PM|#
ED,
the only place that "radio" appears in this page (before this
comment) is when you typed it at 12:12pm.
It is advertised as "chatting live".
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 12:20PM|#
You'd think that in the age of Blog Talk Radio, these guys could have done this on audio. Guess BTR has just spoiled me.
robc|11.27.07 @ 12:23PM|#
I said:
Ummm, come on Eric, you arent that stupid are you?
He said:
There is no audio? It's just chat.
Sheesh! Call me stupid
Hmmm, I guess I was wrong the first time. He is that stupid and
admits it.
Stephen Gordon|11.27.07 @ 12:24PM|#
Money quote (so far) from Matt Welch:
[Paul] might even unify Congress to fight against the crazy Dr.
No in the White House. That would be fun....
picaro|11.27.07 @ 12:27PM|#
Topic: Washington Post "Live Discussions" suck
because:
WP editors decide which questions are asked.
Guy Montag|11.27.07 @ 12:28PM|#
[Paul] might even unify Congress to fight against the crazy
Dr. No in the White House. That would be fun....
A single-digit sum of vetoes in 7 years makes you "Dr. No"?
Stephen Gordon|11.27.07 @ 12:29PM|#
picaro:
Which is why they aren't likely to take my question. It deals with
Gillespie's recent Sith Lord quote in the Washington Times.
lunchstealer|11.27.07 @ 12:32PM|#
Yeah, and they gave an absolutely weak-ass
response.
Translation: Their response wasn't hypermasculine dickwaving.
Anything that doesn't give Dondero a "We are Sparta" boner is weak.
Their ass should be strong like Dondero's. A strong ass supports
invading ALL countries. Everyone in the United States, except
chicks, should be in the navy, right now. Dondero loves a man in
uniform.
Stephen Gordon|11.27.07 @ 12:38PM|#
Best Gillespie line so far:
"I believe that chickens are undervalued and that goat currency
is being deliberately inflated by Big Goat interests."
Stephen Gordon|11.27.07 @ 12:56PM|#
So Nick is really in the pocket of Big Chicken?
I don't see any chicken advertising on the site. Perhaps big sheep,
though.
Guy Montag|11.27.07 @ 12:57PM|#
I don't see any chicken advertising on the site. Perhaps big
sheep, though.
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with a key element of that film?
Fluffy|11.27.07 @ 12:59PM|#
Barry Goldwater had many libertarian instincts, but it's absurd
to say that he founded the libertarian movement.
Look at the publication date of The Fountainhead, Dondero,
you a-hole.
iih|11.27.07 @ 1:04PM|#
I got my question about prostitutes and pro-lifers answered, cool! That was fun.
Stephen Gordon|11.27.07 @ 1:08PM|#
Donderooooooo got another question in.
iih: That was cool.
Guy: Never saw the film, but will click the link.
Franklin Harris|11.27.07 @ 1:09PM|#
I've just lost a lot of respect for Gillespie.
I'm sure that will keep Nick awake at night.
iih|11.27.07 @ 1:12PM|#
No, back to business...
Ron Paul needs to have all $12M raised this Friday. Why are you
guys not getting out your credit cards and/or checkbooks?
|11.27.07 @ 1:28PM|#
"Why do Gillisepie and Matt Welch equate a non-interventionist foreign policy with libertarianism?
Because military interventionism invariably uses tactics that real
libertarians oppose. I've yet to discover one instance of military
occupation that in any way respects the rights and liberties of the
conquered.
Goldwater founded the libertarian movement. He was pro-Defense.
The libertarian movement predated Goldwater by a few decades. It
grew out of the "old right" that opposed FDR's New Deal. That group
split into two, one was the Buckleyite interventionists and the
other the libertarian conservatives. The intellectual "founders" of
the modern libertarian movement included Mises, Hayek, Patterson,
Lane, Rand and Read.
How can defacto support for Islamo-Fascism be considered "libertarian" in any way?
Libertarians are NOT supporting Islamo-fascism. Stop with the silly
ad hominem attacks. Opposition to military conquests of nation
states does not equate to support for diffuse extra-national
ideologies.
After all, Radical Muslims want to force women to wear the burqa, outlaw free speech especially for newspapers, throw gay people in jail and crack down on all political disent. How is that consistent with being a libertarian?"
No one ever claimed that Radical Muslims were libertarian, as your
question implies. Islamo-Fascists are decidely anti-libertarian.
They are statist scum. Let me repeat the earlier point: Opposition
to a modern military crusade against Muslim nations does NOT equate
to being a radical Muslim. Sheesh.
How to fight terrorists: Attack the terrorists. Really, it's that
simple. But Iraq state wasn't the terrorist that attacked us. We're
worried about Iran, but Iraq was the check on Iran!
I don't have much of a problem with libertarians who think the Iraq
war was necessary. I may disagree with them, but I can still
respect them. But your continual assertion that an interventionist
foreign poliicy is a libertarian ideal is beyond ridiculous. At
best it is a necessary evil.
x,y|11.27.07 @ 1:29PM|#
There's a difference between being a libertarian philosophically and being a partisan member of the Libetarian Party (a capital "L" Libertarian). This should have been mentioned in the discussion of Goldwater.
Franklin Harris|11.27.07 @ 1:30PM|#
Houston [a.k.a., Dondero]: How can you say Barry Goldwater is not the Founder of the libertarian movement? If it were not for him, there would be no libertarian movement. Hess and Rohrabacher came out of the Goldwater era. Rohrabacher went on to found the modern libertarian political movement through YAF in the late 1960s, in which the Libertarian Party was birthed. Do I sense a little whitewashing of libertarian movement history going on here? Maybe the non-interventionists do not wish to acknowledge that the libertarian movement was founded by pro-Defense libertarians?
Please note Dondero's typical sleight of hand: equating
"pro-defense" with aggressive militarism. Please also note that the
postwar libertarian movement can be dated to the creation of the
Foundation for Economic Education, which was around before
Goldwater was even elected to the Senate. And note, finally, that
libertarian political activism, can be dated to at least Bob Taft,
which is again pre-Goldwater.
Matt Welch: There's a difference between a movement of ideas and a movement of politics, is the main thing. ...
And we know which side of that has been more successful and
influential over the last century. Hint: It isn't the politics.
Guy Montag|11.27.07 @ 1:59PM|#
Why do people love dogma?
Because it is so cute when it chases car-ma?
robc|11.27.07 @ 2:00PM|#
iih,
The movie or the concept?
No one loves "dogma" the concept.
The movie sucks, if anyone loves it, I cant explain it.
Guy Montag|11.27.07 @ 2:11PM|#
iih,
Sorry, it is an American English play on words, like "my karma ran
over your dogma" as in my car killed your dog.
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 2:55PM|#
Okay Franklin, if Pro-Defense does not mean fighting back
against Islamo-Fascists in Iraq and Afghanistan, let's here your
prescription for responding to 9/11?
Explain to us what you consider to be Pro-Defense?
Fortress America? Line up all our troops on the Mexican border and
wait for the Islamo-Fascists to start lobbing missiles across from
Matamoros to Brownsville, and then we shoot down the missiles, but
we never cross the Rio, cause that would be intervenion into
Mexico.
Is that how it works?
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 2:58PM|#
Brandybuck FUCK YOU. YOU ARE GODDAMN SUPPORTING ISLAMO-FASCISM
IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAND AND IRAQ.
You're as good as sucking Osama Bin Laden's dick, if you oppose the
War on Islamo-Fascism. Stop with all the bullshit you little
fucking coward.
If you oppose the War on Terror, you are a supporter of Al Qaeda,
Saddam Hussein, Hezbollah, and other Muslim Radicals. Plain and
simple.
You are as good as a traitor.
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 3:03PM|#
You all are talking of the philosophical libertarian movement.
I'm talking of the political movement. I'm a political junkie. I
care about politics. I pretty much could give a flying fuck about
philosophy.
Sure, Hayek, Nozick, Isabell Patterson, Rand, I'll give them their
due. Sure, they were influential with the founding of the
philosophical libertarian movement, but did a single one of them
EVER!!! pick up a stack of brochures and walk some precincts for
libertarian candidates?
(Actully, allow me to make an exception. Roger MacBride whom I
worked for for 5 years told me that Patterson and his adoptive
Grandmother Rose Wilder Lane were somewhat politically active in
Connecticut with GOP candidates.)
I'm interested in who founded the libertarian POLITICAL movement.
And on that front, you can only say one person deserves that title:
Dana Rohrabacher.
Goldwater gave the inspiration. But Dana put the feet on the ground
to make it happen in the late 1960s.
Hospers, and David Nolan deserve some credit too. So do the other
YAF Libertarian Caucus members. But if it were not for Dana, it
would have never happened.
iih|11.27.07 @ 3:05PM|#
Guy, robc,
Yes, I am talking of the concept. I am often appalled at
libertarianism the dogma, not the spirit. Once people get all
defensive and/or offensive, this implies that dogma is at work.
iih (aka Ali)|11.27.07 @ 3:07PM|#
but did a single one of them EVER!!! pick up a stack of
brochures and walk some precincts for libertarian
candidates?
No, that is for the less able minded libertarians... Just
Kiddin'... smile Eric, smile.
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 3:07PM|#
I don't call "Interventionist" WHEN WE WERE FUCKING ATTACKED
FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Saddam MOST CERTAINLY DID HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH 9/11 and
Oklahoma and supporting Hezzbolah, and killing hundreds of
thousands of Kurds.
He was simply the World's Greatest living Terrorist.
Stop spending so much time reading America-hating leftwing Blogs
like Huffington Post and DailyKos. You might learn something.
Here's a reading list for ya:
Jayna Davis: The Third Terrorist-How Islamic Radicals were behind
the Oklahoma City Bombing
Richard Miniter: The Shadow War-How Bush is Winning the War on
Terror
Georges Sayda: Saddam's Secrets
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 3:11PM|#
Thank you Matt Welch. And my apologies to Nick Gillespie for my
previous critical comments. I agree wholeheartedly with their
response below:
Houston: How can you say Barry Goldwater is not the Founder of the
libertarian movement? If it were not for him, there would be no
libertarian movement. Hess and Rohrabacher came out of the
Goldwater era. Rohrabacher went on to found the modern libertarian
political movement through YAF in the late 1960s, in which the
Libertarian Party was birthed. Do I sense a little whitewashing of
libertarian movement history going on here? Maybe the
non-interventionists do not wish to acknowledge that the
libertarian movement was founded by pro-Defense libertarians?
Matt Welch: There's a difference between a movement of ideas and a
movement of politics, is the main thing. I don't think there's any
effort at all to limit Goldwater's importance.
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 3:22PM|#
No, it was actually Rum.
But the bottom line is that Matt Welch ended up agreeing with me on
Goldwater and Pro-Defense libertarians.
For that I am thankful. And I'll be reknewing my subscription to
Reason early this year.
|11.27.07 @ 3:29PM|#
Eric-If you just keep repeating the same unfounded assertion, but at increasing volume, it will become true. Right?
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 3:33PM|#
My purpose here is not to convince you all. There's no
convincing any of you hardheaded pacifists.
Rather, it's to make sure that any wondering newbies to our
movement who drop by here at the Reason Blog, do not get the
impression in any manner, shape or form, that our libertarian
movement is supposed to be non-interventionist, isolationist or
pacifist.
And I'll use whatever means I have to, and whatever methods I have
in my arsenal to ensure that that occurs.
robc|11.27.07 @ 3:58PM|#
Apparently Dondero is an "ends justify the means" guy. Which means I have another reason to think he is scum.
|11.27.07 @ 4:05PM|#
Rather, it's to make sure that any wondering newbies to our movement who drop by here at the Reason Blog, do not get the impression in any manner, shape or form, that our libertarian movement is supposed to be non-interventionist, isolationist or pacifist.
That sounds kind of familiar,
in a Bizarro-world sort of way.
Max|11.27.07 @ 4:06PM|#
Goldwater founded the libertarian movement.
????
I thought it was Murray
Rothbard.
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 4:18PM|#
Oh my God! Who in the hell told you that Murray Rothbard founded
the libertarian movement???
Rothbard was a leftwing anarchist in the 1960s. I knew Murray. Nice
guy. Very funny. But he was definitely a Leftist.
Rothbard didn't even get involved in the Libertarian Party til
about 1974/75. But when he did finally jump on board, he came on
board with a vengence. He and Raimondo took over the LP Platform
committee and inserted wildly non-interventionist planks.
If anything Murray was a usurper in libertarian ranks. An
infiltrator if you will.
|11.27.07 @ 4:27PM|#
If anything Murray was a usurper in libertarian ranks. An
infiltrator if you will.
Oh, kinda like you, then, except that Rothbard wasn't a neocon.
|11.27.07 @ 4:29PM|#
Taktix Said:
Uh oh, looks like Eric got into the tequila again...
Eric Dondero Said:
No, it was actually Rum...
Admiral Nelson Adds:
... Sodomy, and the Lash.
|11.27.07 @ 4:45PM|#
"Rather, it's to make sure that any wondering newbies to our
movement who drop by here at the Reason Blog, do not get the
impression in any manner, shape or form, that our libertarian
movement is supposed to be non-interventionist, isolationist or
pacifist."
Any newbies who come here, Eric, will assume you're a neocon, not a
libertarian.
|11.27.07 @ 4:53PM|#
Yes, and please stop saying things like "our movement" unless you are speaking of your morning ablutions in the third person.
|11.27.07 @ 4:59PM|#
Eric-This "hard-headed pacifist", along with a fair number of people he knows online and in real life wears this country's uniform. Given your apparent worship (not to say homoerotic fetishizing) of our military heros, what sort of cognitive dissonance does that cause? Or are you just going to call me a pussy who doesn't deserve to serve?
|11.27.07 @ 5:00PM|#
That should be "...wears this country's uniform and still opposes the Iraq war."
pdog|11.27.07 @ 5:26PM|#
The people who attacked us are a decentralized group of
individuals united by a hateful religious ideology. They have no
State. They exist in many different states around the world and
come from many different ethnicities and races.
The WoT will not be won by divisions of mechanized infantry,
flights of B2 bombers and armadas of battleships. This isn't WWII.
Anyone who thinks this is delusional.
Eric Dondero|11.27.07 @ 6:30PM|#
Great Captain Chaos. I wore the uniform too. Thanks for your service.
Fluffy|11.27.07 @ 7:37PM|#
BA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
Saddam was behind Oklahoma City?
Dondero, you just trumped every 9/11 Truther out there.
You are a complete loon.
It's loony enough to claim that Saddam was behind 9/11. But
Oklahoma City?
BA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!
Pssssst! Saddam killed Jimmy Hoffa...and Bigfoot hid the body in
Loch Ness.
Eric Dondero, advocate of genocide and believer in loopy conspiracy
theories. The face of Trotskyite libertarianism.
|11.27.07 @ 8:56PM|#
i'm pretty new here and i would say dondero is a crazy conservative jackass
Yup. But it's fun to call him...
DONDEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
miche|11.27.07 @ 9:00PM|#
I always preferred DonDildo but my head's always been tethered to a gutter drain.
libertreee|11.27.07 @ 10:12PM|#
Saddam was behind Oklahoma City?
Dondero, you just trumped every 9/11 Truther out there.
The story line is that John Doe 2, described as a swarthy male, was
Iranian.
Eric Dildero believes that is true, and he was an Iranian agent, I
suppose.
Others who go for this might say he was an anti-Saddam Iranian in
the employ of the US Government.
I don't really think so, since McVeigh had nothing to lose by
telling the truth, if that was the truth...
I don't believe this stuff, but I run across people who do.
|11.27.07 @ 10:18PM|#
So let's assume that John Doe #2 was, in fact, Iranian. How does that tie him to the ruler of Iraq?
Franklin Harris|11.27.07 @ 11:54PM|#
Oh my God! Who in the hell told you that Murray Rothbard founded the libertarian movement???
Probably it was someone who knows more about the libertarian
movement than you do and who doesn't take "libertarian movement" to
mean the Libertarian Party. Not that I'd say Murray founded
libertarianism, either, but it's a better answer than Goldwater or
Dana Rohrabacher. Of course, back in the '60s, when Murray was, as
you say, a "leftist," Rohrabacher was exactly the same: a "leftist"
anarcho-capitalist influenced by Robert LeFevre. Do try to pay
attention.
Franklin Harris|11.27.07 @ 11:56PM|#
But the bottom line is that Matt Welch ended up agreeing with me on Goldwater and Pro-Defense libertarians.
You just keep telling yourself that.
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