Reason Magazine
- reason.com
- reason.tv
- reason.org
- Donate
- Site Search:
Reason on Facebook
Reason on Twitter
Reason on YouTube
Reason RSSGet Reason E-mail Updates!
Manage your Reason e-mail list subscriptionsadvertisements
Senate Chamber "Violated By a False Hindu God"
The best perk of my job is the surreal press releases. This one just arrived in my inbox. Here's the lede:
Ante Pavkovic, Kathy Pavkovic, and Kristen Sugar were all arrested in the chambers of the United States Senate as that chamber was violated by a false Hindu god. The Senate was opened with a Hindu prayer placing the false god of Hinduism on a level playing field with the One True God, Jesus Christ. This would never have been allowed by our Founding Fathers.
You laugh, but in 1802 a pistol-wielding Aaron Burr single-handedly fought off a dozen Thuggees as they tried to invade the Senate floor and sacrifice Gideon Granger, the virgin postmaster general, to the devil-goddess Kali. Later Burr would use the same skilled gunplay to kill Alexander Hamilton. Of course, that was before the cultural rot of the '60s set in.
|7.12.07 @ 12:46PM|#
To Schedule Interviews with Rev. Benham:
Contact Pat McEwen: 321 431 3962
Please! Please, for God's sake, contact Pat McEwen. Somebody,
anybody. Please?
Pay attention to us! That's it, I'm holding my breath!
|7.12.07 @ 12:47PM|#
LOL, you cut the money quote:
Not one Senator had the backbone to stand as our Founding
Fathers stood. They stood on the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
ktc2|7.12.07 @ 12:49PM|#
Groovy! When does the Church of Satan, Scientology and Islam get
their days?
LOL.
Jesse Walker|7.12.07 @ 12:49PM|#
you cut the money quote
I had to stop somewhere or I would have republished the whole
thing...
|7.12.07 @ 12:50PM|#
Not one Senator had the backbone to stand as our Founding Fathers stood. They stood on the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
I'll happily stand on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Barefoot, if
necessary.
|7.12.07 @ 12:53PM|#
Groovy! When does the Church of Satan, Scientology and Islam
get their days?
I believe there was a Muslim prayer in 1993, so I guess we're
already living under dhimmitude or whatnot. As to the others, given
the apparent amount of time a religion must exist before they get
one shot at an opening prayer, I'd say CoS and Scientology have a
millennia or so.
Franklin Harris|7.12.07 @ 12:54PM|#
Aaron Burr = America's first badass. He single-handedly retrieved Ben Franklin's magic Illuminati bifocals from the Barbary pirates. In North Africa, he's still known as simply "The Gathering Darkness."
Edward|7.12.07 @ 12:54PM|#
Getting press releases like this is the best perk of your job? I always assumed it was feeling superior to trolls.
|7.12.07 @ 12:55PM|#
If you want one religion to have a prayer in a public place, you
have to have them all.
We had some silly controversy just south of where I live in
Chesterfield, VA when a Wicca wanted to give the opening prayer
before the county council met.
So let me ask any religious conservative on here, if prayer were
re-introduced to public schools would you allow a Satanist to give
a prayer over the public intercom?
|7.12.07 @ 12:56PM|#
The Senate was opened with a Hindu prayer placing the false
god of Hinduism on a level playing field with the One True God,
Jesus Christ. This would never have been allowed by our Founding
Fathers.
But, apparently, it was allowed by God...say, are they placing the
Founding Fathers are on a level above God?
|7.12.07 @ 12:57PM|#
Oh, I see. Operation Save America, aka Operation Rescue. Check
their website:
"It will be our privilege to bring the Gospel of Christ to the
gates of hell in Birmingham, Alabama, this summer once
again."
Who knew the gates of hell were in Alabama?
You'd think they'd advertise it more. Think of the tourism
revenue.
Randolph Carter|7.12.07 @ 12:58PM|#
Cesar,
You don't get it. It's only prayer to the one true God that's
allowed, not the bar-bar-bar of all those heathens.
Franklin Harris|7.12.07 @ 12:58PM|#
If you want one religion to have a prayer in a public place, you have to have them all.
Ia! Ia! Cthulhu ftaghn!
|7.12.07 @ 12:58PM|#
Not one Senator had the backbone to stand as our Founding
Fathers stood. They stood on the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
Sadly, this was not the result of some religious devotion, but
rather, it was due to the fact that they made lecterns very tall
back then...
Jesse Walker|7.12.07 @ 12:59PM|#
Getting press releases like this is the best perk of your
job? I always assumed it was feeling superior to trolls.
Surreal press releases are funny. Trolls are just depressing.
|7.12.07 @ 1:00PM|#
My house is supposed to be a den of thieves, but you have turned it into a place of prayer for all peoples!
Franklin Harris|7.12.07 @ 1:00PM|#
Who knew the gates of hell were in Alabama?
They're in an abandoned mineshaft in Red Mountain, below the statue
of the Roman god Vulcan.
Edward|7.12.07 @ 1:03PM|#
Now why are trolls depressing? I should think that making Hit & Run an echo chamber for tiresome libertarian platitudes would be depressing.
Franklin Harris|7.12.07 @ 1:04PM|#
Surreal press releases are funny.
Yeah, but the humor value of those Westboro Baptist Church press
releases wears off after a while.
D.A. Ridgely|7.12.07 @ 1:09PM|#
Of course, that was before the cultural rot of the '60s set in.
Yes, the 1860s were terrible years.
Timothy|7.12.07 @ 1:13PM|#
DAR: Indeed, it's about time we had a John Wilkes Booth day to celebrate that national hero.
Anonymo the Anonymous|7.12.07 @ 1:15PM|#
Who knew the gates of hell were in Alabama?
Everyone who lives here.
SPD|7.12.07 @ 1:17PM|#
This would never have been allowed by our Founding
Fathers.
Which ones, the deists or the libertines?
Thomas Paine especially would never have stood for this.
Quite the contrary. He would have forbidden all forms of prayers,
the little atheist.
|7.12.07 @ 1:18PM|#
Apparently the Gates of Hell are located in Philadelphia, Paris,
and Tokyo, with later branches in Zurich, Seoul, and Stanford
University.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gates_of_Hell#Locations.
I've seen the Stanford one, and it is indeed impressive.
|7.12.07 @ 1:20PM|#
Who knew the gates of hell were in Alabama?
Does anyone remember the Pinky and The Brain episode where Brain
goes to hell to save Pinky's soul because Pinky sold it to the
devil for Brain to get the world (or something like that)? The gate
to hell was located behind the DMV! FUCKING BRILLIANT!
|7.12.07 @ 1:21PM|#
The reaction of religious conservatives to non-Christian, especially Muslim, prayers in public places is useful for throwing back in their faces when they declare that government endoresement of Christian prayer, symbols, and scripture in now way persecutes non-Christians nor violates the Establishment Clause.
Jesse Walker|7.12.07 @ 1:21PM|#
I should think that making Hit & Run an echo chamber for
tiresome libertarian platitudes would be depressing.
Fortunately, there's no threat of that happening, given the widely
divergent beliefs of the libertarians who comment here, and given
the many non-libertarian non-trolls of the left and right who come
to this site, marshal real arguments, and enliven the debate.
By definition, trolls don't do that. They just come across as rude
and stupid, and thus serve as a depressing reminder of all the rude
and stupid people in the world.
|7.12.07 @ 1:24PM|#
Trolls? I thought the perks of reason magazine editors were the hot chicks and cold beer?
ktc2|7.12.07 @ 1:25PM|#
SPD,
Don't you know ALL the founders were devout evangelical Christians
(any evidence to the contrary including their own words is pure
leftist fabrication!) who fully intended on a full out Christian
nation but just forgot to put it in the constitution!
Jesse Walker|7.12.07 @ 1:26PM|#
I thought the perks of reason magazine editors were the hot
chicks and cold beer?
You're thinking of The Watchtower.
|7.12.07 @ 1:31PM|#
So what exactly happened? There was a hindu prayer, some crazy fundies disrupted it, and they got tossed in jail?
Edward|7.12.07 @ 1:34PM|#
What sort of intelligent debate are you trying to foster with
this silly press release from a nutso Christian outfit?
Rudeness and stupidity are far more common here than real
arguments, especially in response to real arguments. Most of the
posts for discussion invite scoffing at some failure to grasp the
sacred truths of the libertaian faith.
|7.12.07 @ 1:39PM|#
Is there any way that we can get the Urkobold into the
Congressional Record? It seems appropriate, somehow.
Maybe my mania for the Censor is misplaced. Maybe we should just
give the Urkobold a branch of His own, where, instead of actually
having any political function, He just has the absolute power to
make snide remarks about anyone or anything in government. The most
bully of bully pulpits.
Jesse Walker|7.12.07 @ 1:46PM|#
What sort of intelligent debate are you trying to foster
with this silly press release from a nutso Christian
outfit?
None, of course.
Rudeness and stupidity are far more common here than real
arguments, especially in response to real arguments. Most of the
posts for discussion invite scoffing at some failure to grasp the
sacred truths of the libertaian faith.
I've had the misfortune of reading a lot of your comments over the
last few months, Edward. I can't remember a single one that even
attempted to present an argument. There's an awful lot of witless
scoffing in them, though.
Wasn't I just telling someone the other day that it's best not to
try to engage you in conversation? I'd better take my own
advice.
Bazil|7.12.07 @ 1:52PM|#
By Odin's beard!
I pray to the almighty Thor to slam all non-believers with his
hammer of mercy so that they may see the error of their ways.
I love false gods they take themselves far less seriously
|7.12.07 @ 1:55PM|#
You can have lots of fun taking apart the grammatical irregularities in these things. In this one, was the prayer to Hinduism, (I kinda doubt it) or to an unspecified particular Hindu deity? IIRC, Hinduism has more than a billion gods, all of whom are supposedly names for The One, so was this to the One, or one of the crowd? If they're not going to specify, why bother?
LarryA|7.12.07 @ 1:57PM|#
The reaction of religious conservatives to non-Christian,
especially Muslim, prayers in public places is useful for throwing
back in their faces when they declare that government endorsement
of Christian prayer, symbols, and scripture in now way persecutes
non-Christians nor violates the Establishment Clause.
And don't forget that, given the chance, they'd be just as quick to
denounce most Christian denominations.
Don't you know ALL the founders were devout evangelical
Christians (any evidence to the contrary including their own words
is pure leftist fabrication!) who fully intended on a full out
Christian nation but just forgot to put it in the
constitution!
Actually they didn't forget. The last part of Article VI reads, "no
religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any
office or public trust under the United States."
|7.12.07 @ 2:35PM|#
I wish someone, once and for all, would trounce the myth that
all the founders were believing fundamentalist Christians.
They ranged from evangelical Christians(Benjamin Rush), to
occasionally church-going Episcopalians (George Washington) to
Unitarians (John Adams) to Deists who flirted with outright atheism
(Thomas Jefferson).
Jim Anderson|7.12.07 @ 3:07PM|#
"The Senate was opened with a Hindu prayer placing the false
god of Hinduism on a level playing field with the One True God,
Jesus Christ."
So their real beef is with Divine Affirmative Action.
bill|7.12.07 @ 3:09PM|#
Someone should tell these people that the story of Jesus is just a retelling of the story of the Egyptian god Horus from 3000 b.c..
|7.12.07 @ 3:14PM|#
All of this chatter is all well and good, but why is there no
follow-up as to WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED? It seems like complete
nonsense on its face, but did this actually happen? Did someone
actually go to jail? Who put them there?
WTF is going on??
Anonymo the Anonymous|7.12.07 @ 3:21PM|#
Wasn't I just telling someone the other day that it's best
not to try to engage you in conversation? I'd better take my own
advice.
SNAP! Dude just got troll-served.
Jim Nelson|7.12.07 @ 3:54PM|#
Someone should send these people a copy of the Jefferson's Bible
and a printout of Wikipedia's entry on Deism.
What is it with these people? How is it that Evangelical Christians
can't be bothered to read the Gospel, the Constitution, *or* the
Federalist Papers?
|7.12.07 @ 4:10PM|#
I wish someone, once and for all, would trounce the myth
that all the founders were believing fundamentalist
Christians.
Sadly, I fear we will never truly know the beliefs of some of the
founding fathers. Even with all of the freedoms they created, there
was plenty of social pressure at the time to claim Jebus as your
personal lord and savior.
I mean, shit, even today atheists are considered by many to be
nutjobs. If it makes me a nutjob, than I be a proud nutjob.
|7.12.07 @ 4:11PM|#
Taktix®-
I think the only reason some of them weren't out and out atheists
was because Origin of the Species hadn't been written
yet.
Edward|7.12.07 @ 4:18PM|#
Edward: What sort of intelligent debate are you trying to foster
with this silly press release from a nutso Christian outfit?
Jesse Walker: None, of course.
Edward: So what's the point in posting it? To scoff, perhaps?
Anonymo the Anonymous|7.12.07 @ 4:24PM|#
Reinmoose,
This is
the most I've heard on the subject.
"In March we made the announcement of the first ever
self-identified nontheist member of Congress. Rep. Pete Stark's
(D-Calif.) public notice of his nontheism through our contest to
find the highest level nontheistic elected official generated
hundreds of articles."
highnumber|7.12.07 @ 4:32PM|#
ProGLib,
Zod will probably instate a religious test to the oath:
Do you kneel before Zod?
Yes? Good.
Do you kneel before any other than Zod?
Yes? Oh, too bad. We won't be swearing you in. Now die."
Edward|7.12.07 @ 4:33PM|#
Let's see, in the spirit of this post and it's intent--Wow, those fundamentalist Christians sure are stoopid. What more can be said?
SPD|7.12.07 @ 4:35PM|#
Edward: So what's the point in posting it? To scoff,
perhaps?
If it deserves to be scoffed, then yes.
The individuals outraged by this non-Christian opening prayer are
among those who believe that the Bill of Rights begins with the
Second Amendment. PC lefties deserve no less scorn.
|7.12.07 @ 4:36PM|#
Yes, Zod's way is better. Simpler. Fairer.
In fact, Zod will solve joe's issues with mortgage lending by
instituting the death penalty for people who default on their loan
obligations.
|7.12.07 @ 4:47PM|#
Can't you follow Jesse's advice? And don't call me "dude."
Dude, I was just trying to help you out.
*shrugs, walks away.*
Edward|7.12.07 @ 5:08PM|#
It occurs to me that it's hard to imagine such a thing happening in any other western democracy, so maybe the point is to highlight American backwardness. On the other hand, what does American backwardness have to do with libertarianism? Will a libertarian society with a minimal state be less prone to religious fanaticism? Who knows? There has never been a truly libertarian society with a state minimal enough to meet libertarian standards. I'm trying to find a point here.
Edward|7.12.07 @ 5:39PM|#
I'm trying to find a point here.
Try harder.
Aha, you really can't follow your own advice, can you? Okay, I give
up. What is the point?
|7.12.07 @ 5:43PM|#
"I'm trying to find a point here."
Edward, maybe the point that you should try to find in this is that
it is just kinda funny. Lighten up........dude.
|7.12.07 @ 6:08PM|#
Here is the full video in case some of you haven't seen
it:
VIDEO
http://beta.redlasso.com/Community/ClipPlayer.aspx?i=566f5b85-2d1a-4485-9887-dd354bf2475a
|7.12.07 @ 6:10PM|#
Oh, dude! DUDE!
Jesse Walker is da man!
Jesse Walker pwns trolls.
Jesse Walker takes trolls, dresses them up like Strawberry
Shortcake, pops binkies in their mouths, smacks their butts, and
calls them "Dorothy."
And then makes them wash his car and scrape all the gum off the
sidewalk.
Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha!
HA!
ktc2|7.12.07 @ 6:17PM|#
Speaking of "nutso Christian outfits". WorldNutDaily is on this
already.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56645
edna|7.12.07 @ 7:17PM|#
i wear my trollhood with great pride, but that's cuz i've got
all those extra arms like kali.
jw, that's some funny shit, seriously funny.
|7.12.07 @ 7:44PM|#
Daily Kos will react more strongly against this than if a Muslim
group had attempted to behead the polytheistic Hindu priest.
In your heart, you know it's true.
I'm an atheist, by the way. No dog in the fight.
|7.12.07 @ 10:04PM|#
Having met Edward, I'm beginning to rethink that "solution to bad speech is more speech" maxim.
Fluffy|7.12.07 @ 10:26PM|#
Edward, libertarianism is only 50% of what this magazine is
about. It's actually the contingent 50%, frankly.
Scoffing at religious fundamentalists is its own reward, bucko. Ba
ha ha, ha ha ha ha. See? It's fun.
You seem a little sensitive about this topic. Was your mom one of
the people arrested or something?
|7.12.07 @ 11:25PM|#
"...but before we call Congress to session, a few inspirational words from Reverend J.R. "Bob" Dobbs..."
|7.13.07 @ 9:38AM|#
I was violated by a false Hindu god once. It turns out she was just some disturbed plushy with an elephant fixation.
|7.13.07 @ 1:23PM|#
Fluffy, I'm all for making fun of religion, but bringing
someone's mom into it? That's going too far!
Also, were they really arrested? I could understand being removed
from the chambers, but arrested? That's not right.
|7.13.07 @ 2:33PM|#
I find it outrageous that they still allow prayers to be read in any house of government. I am a Hindu but when it comes to my government I prefer strict secularism to any clergy member of any faith starting the day at the US Senate. As I understand it, most days it is a Christian clergy member. We need to outlaw all religion from the forums of the State. I think it is time for a specific constitutional ban that way it would put to end any snarky delusional comments from the Christian right as well.
|7.13.07 @ 2:34PM|#
I declare Stevo Darkly the winner of this thread.
Edward, well, you can just feel special for competing at all,
dude dorothy.
|7.15.07 @ 2:09PM|#
So won't they have to burn down the Senate building. It's
obviously been defiled by cannibalistic cow worshippers, right?
Jesus Christ Man! Yeah!
stopdrugwar: No, Jesus is God, and he killed himself on the cross
(No offense foot worshippers..)
|7.16.07 @ 3:25AM|#
Those who believe Jesus Christ is the one true God should also
believe that a Christian prayer should *never* serve as a public
invocation. This was made abundantly clear in a direct quote from
Jesus:
___
Matthew 6:5 - 6
5. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites
[are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the
corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say
unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou
hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy
Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Site comments/questions:
Media Inquiries and Reprint Permissions:
(310) 367-6109
Editorial & Production Offices:
3415 S. Sepulveda Blvd.
Suite 400
Los Angeles, CA 90034
(310) 391-2245