April 21, 2007
In the Wall Street Journal , Katherine Mangu-Ward looks at the legacy of Rachel Carson.
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"the Rachel Carson of global warming"
With a little luck the socialists will get bored with their 'global
warming' fad before they can do much economic damage, but it might
take a real war or major natural disaster to distract them. With
less luck they'll never realize that the climate doesn't respond to
higher tax rates and redistribution scams, and keep doing more of
the same.
Hey cool, you can play DDT ban myth
bingo with her article.
You can tell when someone like Mangu-Ward writes a piece on how
Rachel Carson was worse than Hitler really has no clue when they
write a piece about how DDT could have eliminated malaria and don't
ever mention that mosquitoes evolve resistance to DDT.
FWIW - wikipedia
on DDT and mosquito resistance. Something for everyone there I
guess.
My take on DDT? It is neither an existential evil nor the greatest
boon to human society since the advent of the plow. It is a
particular piece of technology and should be used where
efficacious.
Ah yes, another myth the greens like to Spread --> DDT just doesn't work because the mosquitoes develop resistance. The problem is there is little evidence that the resistance is passed along to the next generation of mosquitoes and at that the resistance affects DDTs ability to prevent indoor transmission of it. It's a bit like arguing that some infections have developed resistance to anti-biotics that we should simply stop using them .
Allen,
From what I read on wikipedia the issue seems to in part be where
people sleep. If you sleep inside apparently its use is quite
effective, whereas if you sleep outside its use is less so or may
even increase the number of malaria deaths.
The DDT debate is a pretty fine example of how we place on technology human attributes.
Allen doesn't think that evolved resistance is inherited.
Err, you might want to look into how evolution works, Allen.
Tim Lambert,
Well, it may or may not be inherited depending on the particular
individual, etc. It does sound like though that the issue of
mosquito resistance to DDT isn't binary in nature.
Allen, in case you missed the news recently, the CDC has called
for ending the use of fluoroquinolones (one class of antibiotics)
for treating gonorrhea because there are too many strains of
gonorrhea developing resistance.
nice strawman, though. calling for minimizing DDT use in order to
minimize resistance is not the equivalent of calling for ending the
use of all antibiotics because some strains are resistant to some
antibiotics.
keep on telling yourself that it's just those delusion greens
making things up again
"Ah yes, another myth the greens like to Spread"
It ain't easy being green.
But green's the color of Spring.
And green can be cool and friendly-like.
"Silent Spring" 1972 - the reduced usage of DDT in malaria
eradication starts about a decade earlier because of the emergence
of DDT-resistant mosquitoes.
See, Garrett, L (1994). The Coming Plague: Newly Emerging Diseases
in a World Out of Balance. Penguin Books, UK.
Also a nifty article on malaria eradication programs...
http://heapol.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/14/4/301.pdf
The following abstract raises some issues of interest, I would
think, to the libertarian worldview...
"It's a bit like arguing that some infections have developed
resistance to anti-biotics that we should simply stop using them
."
ETHICS AND DRUG RESISTANCE
MICHAEL J. SELGELID
The Australian National University, Australia
Michael J. Selgelid, Senior Research Fellow, Centre for Applied
Philosophy and Public Ethics (CAPPE); and Menzies Centre for Health
Policy, The Australian National University, LPO Box 8260, ANU
Canberra ACT 2601, Australia. Email:
michael.selgelid@anu.edu.au
The Australian National University, Australia
Michael J. Selgelid, Senior Research Fellow, Centre for Applied
Philosophy and Public Ethics (CAPPE); and Menzies Centre for Health
Policy, The Australian National University, LPO Box 8260, ANU
Canberra ACT 2601, Australia. Email:
michael.selgelid@anu.edu.au
ABSTRACT
This paper reviews the dynamics behind, and ethical issues
associated with, the phenomenon of drug resistance. Drug resistance
is an important ethical issue partly because of the severe
consequences likely to result from the increase in drug resistant
pathogens if more is not done to control them. Drug resistance is
also an ethical issue because, rather than being a mere quirk of
nature, the problem is largely a product of drug distribution. Drug
resistance results from the over-consumption of antibiotics by the
wealthy; and it, ironically, results from the under-consumption of
antibiotics, usually by the poor or otherwise marginalized. In both
kinds of cases the phenomenon of drug resistance illustrates why
health (care) - at least in the context of infectious disease -
should be treated as a (global) public good. The point is that drug
resistance involves 'externalities' affecting third parties. When
one patient develops a resistant strain of disease because of her
over- or under-consumption of medication, this more dangerous
malady poses increased risk to others. The propriety of free-market
distribution of goods subject to externalities is famously dubious
- given that the 'efficiency' rationale behind markets assumes an
absence of externalities. Market failure in the context of drug
resistance is partly revealed by the fact that no new classes of
antibiotics have been developed since 1970. I conclude by arguing
that the case of drug resistance reveals additional reasons - to
those traditionally appealed to by bioethicists - for treating
health care as something special when making policy decisions about
its distribution.
I conclude by arguing that the case of drug resistance
reveals additional reasons - to those traditionally appealed to by
bioethicists - for treating health care as something special when
making policy decisions about its distribution.
All healthcare? If so, why?
In no way did KM-G Godwinize Carson, Mr. Lambert. RTFA:
Carson cannot be blamed directly for these deaths. She didn't urge total bans in "Silent Spring." Instead, on the single page obliquely acknowledging DDT as an anti-malarial agent, she writes, "Practical advice should be 'Spray as little as you possibly can' rather than 'Spray to the limit of your capacity.'"
Funny how what those against a total ban on DDT suggest matches
what Carson wrote.
Kevin
"Market failure in the context of drug resistance is partly
revealed by the fact that no new classes of antibiotics have been
developed since 1970."
Hey, mexicano nuevo, the author shares your disingenuity - he
thinks that correlation is causation.
"Drug resistance results from the over-consumption of
antibiotics by the wealthy; and it, ironically, results from the
under-consumption of antibiotics, usually by the poor or otherwise
marginalized."
Ironically? Seems like one thing contradicts the other. Either
resistance is due to underuse, or it is because of overuse, not
both.
"It ain't easy being green."
Seems like it is easier than being rational. Rationality takes
effort...
Environmentalists are more like watermelons. Green from the
outside, certainly RED on the inside, with all the ignorance of
economics that that entails.
"The overall results of the study revealed that DDT is still a
viable insecticide in indoor residual spraying owing to its
effectivity in well supervised spray operation and high
excito-repellency factor."
From teh link provided above.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT#Mosquito_resistance_against_DDT
The most important front against the mosquito is still inside the
home. The mosquitos still find DDT irritable.
Overuse in the sense that people often used antibiotics when
inappropriate. Underuse in the sense that peaple have stopped
taking their prescription just because they are feeling
better.
I lay the problem in widespread ignorance among humans. How can
they make it out of high school without comprehending the
difference between viral infections and bacterial infections? Why
has "universal education" failed to eradicate this ignorance?
uncle sam:
I've had students taking their prerequisite courses for nursing
school that did not understand the difference between viruses and
bacteria. People just don't care to learn, they have little
curiosity about the world and how it works.
High school drags on too long for the apathetic - get those that
don't care into a vocational/ technical program and let them get
jobs.
"Carson cannot be blamed directly for these deaths"
Like hell, she can't!
She pumped up junk science to sell a book. The fact that hoardes of
soft-headed bureaucrats were complicit in millions of preventable
deaths doesn't diminish her crime in any way.
-jcr
"Funny how what those against a total ban on DDT suggest matches
what Carson wrote."
True, but where are those that are for a total ban? A fringe about
as informed as Allen or Francisco on the opposite side balances
their uninformed view... but that doesn't make a total ban the
position of "greens."
That abstract provides a good example of university condensed disconnection from ground truth.
Drug resistance is also an ethical issue because, rather than being a mere quirk of nature, the problem is largely a product of drug distribution.
No, it is related to improper usage. Antiobiotics are prescribed for problems they won't fix (colds), they are improperly used by patients (they don't take them as they are supposed to) or they are improperly available. In many third world countries you can buy antibiotics over the counter which increase improper use of antibiotics.
Resistance illustrates why health (care) - at least in the context of infectious disease - should be treated as a (global) public good.
Apparently the author is not familiar with the tragedy of the commons. Generally turning something into a (global) public good does not have good results. The decreasing wildlife and ocean fish populations in some areas gives an excellent example of this.
Market failure in the context of drug resistance is partly revealed by the fact that no new classes of antibiotics have been developed since 1970.
That statement gives pretty clear evidence that the author is
either ignorant or a disingenuous hack.
1. New antibiotics do not require the development of a new class of
antibiotic. A fair amount of new antibiotics have been developed
since 1970.
2. There is a big market for new antibiotics, lots of demand and
good profit making potential to whoever can develop and market a
new antibiotic.
The market exists and the lack of development of new antibiotics
has nothing to do with market failure and everything to do with the
difficulty of the science.
Coming up with new antibiotics is a very difficult technical
problem. It is not easy to develop a chemical that will attack
bacteria and not damage the patients cells.
Difficult science not market failure is the reason more new
antibiotics have not been developed.
As I read this article I thought: who in the heck is Katherine
Mangu-Ward? No doubt an expert in matters of environmental science
to be pontificating as she did. Then I found her blurb on the
Reason Staff page:
Mangu-Ward is a graduate of Yale University, where she received a
B.A. in political science and philosophy.
Lord I hope her training on environmental science consisted of more
than the occasional lecture wedged between sipping pina colada's at
some industry funded 'information session' in Nassau or the
like....
What, did Reason decide that Ron Bailey was too credible, and
you needed to knock yourselves down a couple notches?
K M-W? What are you, kidding me?
Please, tell me how a Suburban uses less energy than a Prius
again.
More from the Bioethics article.
"Insofar as the economic rationale behind a market in medicine is
based on the idea that markets promote utility, the legitimacy of a
market in antibiotics falls away as argued above. The current
global threat of drug resistance reveals that utilitarian aims
would most likely be reached if the poor had better access to drugs
than they do at present (i.e. largely via markets). On the one
hand, the utilitarian rationale for improving access to medication
for the poor, via resource redistribution, is quite
straightforward: $10 worth of tuberculosis medication will
generally have a far greater payoff in terms of quality of life
improvement for an infected poor person than the same $10 could
normally have, by paying for a movie ticket or restaurant meal, for
someone who is relatively well off and healthy. On the other hand,
however, the utilitarian rationale for improving access to
medication for the poor is more profound: When a poor person cannot
afford to finish her course of treatment, the resistant strain of
disease that results may threaten everyone. Because this social
cost (i.e. externality) of drug resistance is never factored into
the market costs of medicines, we here have market failure.
When the public nature of drug resistance is taken into account,
utilitarianism would favor increasing access to medicine for the
poor over markets if the wider social consequences of drug
resistance are sufficiently serious, assuming a more efficient
system of distribution can be found. Assuming the consequences of
drug resistance are sufficiently serious - which seems highly
plausible, given the concerns of the WHO - then one can argue that
equality and utility both favor improving access to antimicrobials
for those who need them.
The remaining justification, if any, for a market in antimicrobials
would be the libertarian idea that individuals have a right to
engage in free-market transactions without coercive taxation for
redistributive purposes. Assuming that utility would in fact be
promoted by more socialized distribution of antimicrobials, the
ethical question would then be: Do not equality and utility
together outweigh the importance of free-market liberty, in the
limited context of anti-infectives at least? Why should anyone
think that liberty in the exchange of drugs is more important than
these other two goods combined?(67) The idea that negative liberty
should be given priority over both equality and utility regardless
of the degree to which these latter two are threatened is
implausibly extreme.(68) Key points to remember are that (1)
ethically speaking, the usual justification for markets is the idea
that they generally promote both utility and (negative) liberty,
(2) there is no good (theoretical or empirical) reason to believe
that markets promote utility in the context of antimicrobials - in
virtue of public goods problems, and (3) the consequences of drug
resistance may be disastrous, as opposed to merely suboptimal, from
a utilitarian standpoint."
Notes:
67 A third reason in favor of increasing access to medicine is the
idea that this would promote positive (if not negative) liberty as
well. A fourth reason is that the Universal Declaration of Human
Rights recognizes a human right to health. A fifth reason is that
the poor are often victims of past injustices warranting
reparation.
68 The idea that 'side constraints' might be violated in order to
avoid 'catastrophic moral horror' is suggested (though perhaps not
fully admitted) even by Robert Nozick. R. Nozick. 1974. Anarchy,
State, and Utopia. New York: Basic Books: 30n.
TJIT does a nice deconstruction of the abstract, but it is only the
abstract he is deconstructing. Most of his concerns are addressed
in the article.
K M-W:
"In recent years, many such groups tried to get a complete ban on
all DDT uses by 2007 -- in time for Carson's birthday."
So was that statement an outright lie, or merely highly deceptive?
The major environmental groups, including WWF, don't oppose DDT's
limited use. Maybe she was talking about groups besides the ones
she named, or maybe recent years to her means ten, fifteen, twenty
years ago (IF they took that position then) and not what they
actually want in the last five years.
Most charitably, maybe KMW is just regurgitating talking points
without checking their accuracy. Too bad that's Wall Street Journal
quality-level for Op-Eds.
More than 350 of the world's leading experts in malaria have signed an open letter of protest against plans for a global ban on the pesticide DDT, which they say will lead to millions more people dying in the developing world from the disease. . . .
Pushing for the ban are environmental groups, led by the World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF), which argues that alternatives will be found to combat malaria before the ban becomes effective in 2007. It says the deadline will concentrate minds. . . .
WWF insists there is no risk of lives being lost if the global ban by 2007 is agreed. Clifton Curtis, director of its global toxic chemicals initiative, said: "We set an end-date as a motivational target. In our view, if you don't set a target you don't get decision-makers to focus on putting the money into the alternatives that are needed."
Malaria
Fears over Planned DDT Ban, The Guardian, August 1999
Brian, I'd say Katherine Mangu-Ward's statement was accurate and
not misleading, assuming this article is correct. In any case, I
don't think it's fair to call her a liar or a regurgitator of
talking points.
Incidentally, it does appear the WWF relented in its advocacy of
a total ban on DDT:
Environmentalists have abandoned their outright opposition to one of the world's most virulent toxins - the pesticide DDT. The concession comes at the start of talks among 120 nations in Johannesburg aimed at agreeing a treaty to ban twelve of the most dangerous persistent organic pollutants (POPs).
During negotiations on the UN treaty last year, Greenpeace and the World Wide Fund for Nature demanded a global ban on DDT. It has been outlawed in most industrialised countries since being identified as a health hazard and wildlife killer in Rachel Carson's seminal 1960s book, Silent Spring. But the greens have bowed to criticism from doctors, who say that the pesticide remains their best weapon against the mosquitoes that carry malaria. The disease kills more than a million people a year.
Last year, WWF's Clifton Curtis said a total ban on DDT was necessary to "focus decision-takers on finding alternatives". But this year he says "exemptions should be allowed for DDT's continued use against malaria".
"Dirty
Dozen," New Scientist, December 2000
Notice that Greenpeace is also named as an environmental group that
once advocated a total ban on DDT.
Russel,
Nice digging.
So does Greenpeace and WWF get to speak for "greens?"
Is that the same as when the LP speaks for libertarians?
"Many groups"
Does two count as many now?
Is 7 years ago for a few months "recent years?"
Neu Mejican,
They are two of the most prominent environmental organizations in
the U.S. They speak for "Greens" as much as any organization can
speak for a group of people.
Neu Mejican:
So does Greenpeace and WWF get to speak for "greens?"
Take it up with the author of the New Scientist
piece.
Does two count as many now?
Do you know only two environmental groups agitated for a total ban
on DDT? The Guardian article refers to "environmental
groups, led by the World Wide Fund for Nature." That could
conceivably refer to only WWF and Greenpeace, but it suggests
others.
Here's
an article that refers to "the attempt by environmental groups,
such as Greenpeace and WWF, and the United Nations Environment
Programme (UNEP) to ban the so-called 'dirty dozen' chemicals."
That's three, and note the "such as."
I could go on digging, but I'm bored, and I don't see the point of
doing your research for you.
Evidently Katherine Mangu-Ward thinks "many" environmental groups
wanted to ban all uses of DDT. You don't have to believe her, but
it's silly to assume she's wrong and demand proof she isn't.
Is 7 years ago for a few months "recent years?"
I'd say so, sure. Presumably Katherine Mangu-Ward also thinks so.
Maybe you're so young you think of 8 years as a long time ago.
Fine. But there's no need to draw uncharitable conclusions about
Mangu-Ward, as Brian did.
Note that Mangu-Ward used the word tried, not have
been trying: "In recent years, many such groups tried to get a
complete ban on all DDT uses by 2007."
Nm@yahoo.com
The portion of the article you posted does not address any of the
points I brought up. It consists mostly of boiler plate rhetoric
like.
67 A third reason in favor of increasing access to medicine is the idea that this would promote positive (if not negative) liberty as well. A fourth reason is that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights recognizes a human right to health. A fifth reason is that the poor are often victims of past injustices warranting reparation.
Entertaining boilerplate but the paper offers no evidence that
antibiotic resistence is caused by market failure. Furthermore, and
this is what really aggravates me, it does not describe how putting
government bureacrats in charge of antibiotics will fix the
problem.
The argument appears to be
1. Put government in charge of antibiotics
2 and then....... apparently a miracle occurs
3. Followed by no more antibiotic resistence problems.
It also ignores the role patient compliance plays in development of
antibiotic resistence especially for diseases like
tuberculosis.
Patient starts antibiotics for TB, patient feels better and stops
taking antibiotics, before they are supposed to patient thus
creates population of resident antibiotic resitant TB bacilli.
Treatment of TB involves adhereing to the treatment guidelines for
6-9 months. Because of the length of the treatment patients stop
treatment before they should even in cases where the medication is
provided free of charge or at very low cost.
The paper had no relevance to the thread, did not say what the
original poster said it did, and was posted merely to provide a
prop for a disingenuous slap at libertarian philosophy.
It would be nice to at least try and keep the slaps at libertarian
philosophy at least tangentially on topic.
Why has "universal education" failed to eradicate this
ignorance?
I thought this a rather leading question.
Of course, "universal education" has been provided by
government.
The failure of government to eradicate critical ignorance in
citizens tells us much.
It also tells us something about those who lay so much condemnation
at the feet of "the market" but fail to see systemic problems in
political systems.
Let's try the first, I repeat the first, link that comes up on a
Google search:
"Is it safe? DDT was sprayed in America in the 1950's as children
played in the spray, and up to 80,000 tons a year were sprayed on
American crops. There is some research suggesting that it could
lead to premature births, but humans are far better off exposed to
DDT than exposed to malaria.
I called the World Wildlife Fund, thinking I would get a fight. But
Richard Liroff, its expert on toxins, said he could accept the use
of DDT when necessary in anti-malaria programs.
'South Africa was right to use DDT,' he said. 'If the alternatives
to DDT aren't working, as they weren't in South Africa, geez,
you've got to use it. In South Africa it prevented tens of
thousands of malaria cases and saved lots of lives.'
At Greenpeace, Rick Hind noted reasons to be wary of DDT, but
added: 'If there's nothing else and it's going to save lives, we're
all for it. Nobody's dogmatic about it.'"
That's from the NY Times, the first link from searching for "world
wildlife fund" ddt and malaria on Google.
So, either KMW knew this or she didn't. If she knew, she's either a
liar or deliberately misrepresenting them. If she didn't, she's
incompetent.
In case someone here attempts to claim that's not misrepresenting
them, tell me if you think the reader would expect in recent years,
Greenpeace and WWF would have taken the position that they
did.
Had KMW acknowledged their changed position, she would have been
clear, but as it is, the statement is deceptive.
Joe-I imagine one reason why they would go from RB to KMW is that it is VERY hard to get someone who has actually spent a great deal of time studying these issues to agree with what is "supposed to be the libertarian take on this." Of course, as someone who leans towards maximizing liberty, but who feels no obligation or duty to say what industry suggests, I don't see any conflict here between libertarianism and sound science. But many people do...
TJIT
"The paper had no relevance to the thread, did not say what the
original poster said it did, and was posted merely to provide a
prop for a disingenuous slap at libertarian philosophy."
Disingenuous slap at libertarian philosophy?
A recent paper in bioethics brings up an issue and frames it in
terms of issues at the heart of libertarianism... said paper
discusses an issue brought up on a libertarian thread...so I
thought, hey, some here who would probably disagree with this paper
might want to look at it and think about it...maybe even discuss
why they disagree with the author, and you call that a disingenuous
slap?
That makes your comment what then?
Something akin to "Entertaining boilerplate?"
"the paper offers no evidence that antibiotic resistence is caused
by market failure."
So this means you read the whole article, I assume(and not just the
abstract). I'll take your word for that, although you provide no
evidence since you don't post anything that doesn't appear on this
thread.
"The portion of the article you posted does not address any of the
points I brought up."
Nor was it intended to.
"did not say what the original poster said it did"
How did this
"The following abstract raises some issues of interest, I would
think, to the libertarian worldview..."
Get construed as a summary of the article?
Pinche puta pendejo
"It also ignores the role patient compliance plays in
development of antibiotic resistence especially for diseases like
tuberculosis."
From the Bioethics article...
"Another cause of drug resistance is the fact that patients often
fail to complete treatment regimens prescribed."
"The failure to complete a full course of treatment, however, is by
no means always the fault of the patient. 'Noncompliance',
according to Paul Farmer, is usually a matter of ability rather
than agency. 'Throughout the world', according to Farmer, 'those
least likely to comply are those least able to comply'.45 As stated
before, the poor are most likely to get sick and least likely to
afford medical care when they do. They are also most likely to be
unable to complete medical treatment once they start it. Poor
people in developing countries, quite simply, often cannot afford
to complete treatment..."
So you read the article... right?
On TB, a portion of the TB discussion.
"Ordinary tuberculosis can be treated with a six month course of
treatment costing $10. While drug-resistant tuberculosis treatment
takes two years and costs 100 times as much, '[e]ven then a cure is
not guaranteed'. It is thus widely acknowledged that new TB drug
development is needed, as there are now '300,000 new cases per year
of MDR-TB worldwide'. In the meanwhile it is unfortunate that,
according to the WHO, there has been 'a 40 year standstill in TB
drug development'.(51)
Or should I assume that you bring up TB because it was mentioned
prominently in the article?
You did read it, right?
Note: 51 World Health Organization. 2004. Drug Resistant
Tuberculosis Levels Ten Times Higher in Eastern Europe and Central
Asia. Press Release, available at:
http://www.who.int.offcampus.lib.washington.edu/mediacentre/releases/2004/prl17/en/print.html
[Accessed 17 March 2004].
From the article.
"Medicine did subsequently shift focus away from bacteriology and
parasitology to chronic illnesses such as heart disease and cancer
- or what McKeown calls 'diseases of affluence'.8 The
pharmaceutical industry, furthermore, has increasingly been busy
with hugely profitable 'blockbuster' drugs for allergies and
depression - and lifestyle drugs for things like baldness and
impotence. The focus of industry research and development at
present can largely be explained by the fact that the market for
vaccines and antibiotics is relatively small. According to Peter N.
Goodfellow of GlaxoSmithKline Pharmaceuticals, 'all revenues for
all vaccines combined are less than one year's sales, in the USA,
for [the antidepressant] PAXIL® . . . Antibacterials capture only
8% of the pharmaceutical market, and soon there will be no
antibacterials in the top 20 selling drugs.'9 A lack of economic
incentive has led to decreased antibiotic and vaccine research and
development. In 2000, the World Health Organization (WHO) claimed
that '[s]ince 1970 no new classes of antibacterials have been
developed to combat infectious diseases.' While '[o]n average,
research and development of anti-infective drugs takes 10 to 20
years', at a cost in the neighborhood of US $500 million, 'there
are no new drugs or vaccines ready to emerge from the research and
development pipeline'.10"
Notes
T. McKeown. 1988. The Origins of Human Disease. Cambridge, MA:
Blackwell.
9 P.N. Goodfellow. The Barriers to the Production of New
Antibiotics. Presentation at the 3rd EMBL/EMBO joint Conference on
Science and Society - Infectious Diseases: Challenges, Threats and
Responsibilities. Heidelberg, Germany, 2002.
10 World Health Organization. 2000. Report on Infectious Diseases
2000 - Overcoming Antimicrobial Resistance. Available at
http://www.who.int.offcampus.lib.washington.edu/infectious-disease-report/2000/
[Accessed 30 August 2006].
Grotius,
"They are two of the most prominent environmental organizations in
the U.S. They speak for "Greens" as much as any organization can
speak for a group of people."
With this, I would agree.
Mainly just being cranky today.
Neu Mejican,
Ever listen to Brian McNeill's No Gods and Precious Few
Heroes when you are cranky?
don't ever mention that mosquitoes evolve resistance to
DDT.
So the use of DDT would have been reduced and possibly eliminated
without the intervention of governments.
Neu Mejican,
Nothing you have provided puts forward any idea for how putting the
government in charge of antibiotics is going to fix the
problem.
You can whine and cry and curse, and stamp your feet all you want
but your proposal still suffers from the miracle mile
problem.
1. Put government in charge of antibiotics
2. A miracle occurs
3. No more antibiotic resistence problems
You have read the paper so I'm sure you can provide reams of
proposals that can replace step number with something concrete and
actionable, can't you?
Cheers,
TJIT
"So the use of DDT would have been reduced and possibly
eliminated without the intervention of governments."
Eventually, after years of continuing to dump thousands of tons of
the stuff into various ecosystems, with ever-diminishing returns,
which would not only have done environmental damage, but also
rendered the effective, responsible use indoors worthless.
Pinche puta pendejo
Oye, Mexicano Nuevo. In the first instance, learn to write proper
Spanish. Puta means whore, which in the feminine. Pendejo means
something like a$$hole, but it is in the masculine gender.
Second, there was NO reason to use that language, you disingenuous
watermelon (green outside, certainly RED inside).
Eventually, after years of continuing to dump thousands of
tons of the stuff into various ecosystems, with ever-diminishing
returns, which would not only have done environmental damage, but
also rendered the effective, responsible use indoors
worthless.
The funny thing, Joe, is that DDT was sprayed in incredible
quantities by GOVERNMENT agencies, all over the world. A private
sector would most likely offer it to individual people at a certain
price, making them use it in a more rational way (the price system
does that, you see...) Instead, governments simply used it as if it
were free...
TJIT
"your proposal still suffers from the miracle mile problem"
Ahhh.
So you think this is my proposal.
I didn't write the article.
I just thought people might find it interesting.
Francisco,
"proper Spanish"
In my town "Puta Pendejo" is idiomatic. It means "Whore's
asshair."
"NO reason to use that language,"
Sorry to offend your delicate eyes. I was insulted and accused of
being disingenuous and responded in kind.
"you disingenuous watermelon (green outside, certainly RED
inside)."
That would be "Sandia," and it is not a very accurate description.
I see you are perfectly willing to break with proper
etiquette.
There are economic reasons for addressing many environmental issue,
and most of the solutions for environmental problems will come from
market actions. So are you accusing me of being republican on the
inside?
"You have read the paper so I'm sure you can provide reams of
proposals that can replace step number with something concrete and
actionable, can't you?"
As is apparent even from just the abstract, this article is not
aimed at making specific policy proposals. It is in the journal
"Bioethics" and attempts to make the case that some goods, such as
antibiotics, provide ethical motivations for developing policies.
It is making the case for why certain goods might be treated
differently than other goods, not proposing specific actionable
proposals for what that treatment would look like.
Banning chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides (DDT is one, but many others were also banned at the same time) was very wise. These compounds are extremely persistent in the environment so animals high on the food chain (e.g. predatory birds)ingest large amounts. In my neighborhood, (central Iowa) there were no eagles and few hawks 35 years ago, today there are many. Prior to the ban, corn farmers used huge quantities of chlorinated hydrocarbons and this devastated raptor populations (egg shells were too thin). Today, corn farmers control the same insect pests far more effectively and with far less environmental impact through the use of genetically modified corn hybrids.
Throughout the month of April, I have placed my own printed
'bumper sticker':
Happy 100th Birthday, Rachel Carson.
Your DDT Junkscience has killed over 30 million people.
Source: www.junkscience.com
April: Malaria Awareness Month
I stop at a lot of stop signs and red lights everyday and I've seen
people read it in the parking lots! Good.
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