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If they had called him a "retart," that really would have been offensive
Be thankful you don't live in Nephi, UT, where there's no thin blue line standing between you and the walking mentally challenged. A local family gets a top-story TV news beatdown for posting a sign reading "Caution Retard's in area" in their yard:
The sign is directed at a 13-year-old mentally challenged neighbor, whom the signmaking family charges assaulted their daughter with a rock. It's pretty stupid to assume the sign is going to do anything about it (although the wife in the video clip claims it's already working as effectively as the Bear Patrol). But what's interesting is that no local authorities, including that ultimate local authority, KSL News, has bothered to investigate the assault charge, while the stupid sign has the county's district attorney "researching" his legal options...
Neighbor: "The young boy, we got pictures and everything and they would not press charges because he is handicapped."
The neighbor claims Colton threw a rock at his young daughter. Other neighbors told us they have frequently found Colton wandering onto their property.
Still, the Disability Law Center says using offensive words is the wrong way to handle a difficult situation.
Fraser Nelson, Executive Director, Disability Law Center: "People with disabilities are probably the last group for whom we continue to use language that is hurtful and offensive. Instead of being someone who is mentally retarded, you are a person with a developmental disability and that means really what we are valuing is the person."
What can I say? I'm not without sympathy for the ignoramuses who put up the sign. Not for putting up the sign, but for feeling menaced by this child. (Presuming that the charge about the rock is true.) Every small kid knows there's nothing scarier than a big retard—that's one of the reasons the mentally challenged get so much abuse from other kids. The abuse is not right, nor is the sign, but the solution in this case was for the family of the 13-year-old to have kept him under control in the first place (a slam-dunk conclusion given that his mother says he's got the mental faculties of a three-year-old). This isn't a matter of the essential rights of the handicapped, but of respecting the rights of your neighbors.
|7.24.06 @ 11:48AM|#
Given the frequency of occurrence, I can only assume that English teachers are now instructing students to form the plural of most common words with an apostrophe-s.
The Wine Commonsewer|7.24.06 @ 11:49AM|#
Saw that, and you've just about nailed it (because your take is the same as mine)
|7.24.06 @ 11:49AM|#
What is the point of the "'s" after "retard"? It is presumably not a misspelling of the plural form, since there is apparently only one. Equally, it doesn't make much sense as a contraction of "retard is," since: "Retard in area" conveys the same message as "Retard is in area".
|7.24.06 @ 11:53AM|#
Ok, so the kid is mentally challenged.
But the signmaker abuses the apostrophe like a pack of Cub Scouts
at a Never Never Land sleepover.
What's his excuse?
|7.24.06 @ 11:58AM|#
Interesting how the language of insult evolves. Didn't the developmentally disabled used to be called idiots? Then idiot became shorthand for any jagoff with less than admirable intelligence. Then they became mentally retarded. This seemed good because playground bullies probably couldn't pronounce it, but they caught on, and now "retard" or even "tard" is a demeaning insult. How long will "developmentally disabled" have a shelf life? Thanks Reason for going beyond the anachronistic yard sign and seeing the real story. I grew up with a [insert pretty euphemism here] man living across the street. He only stabbed his sisters, so at least he kept it in the family.
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 11:59AM|#
Perhaps it was a contraction for "retard is in area," which would be grammatically correct.
|7.24.06 @ 11:59AM|#
Every small kid knows there's nothing scarier than a big
retard�that's one of the reasons the mentally challenged get so
much abuse from other kids.
Tim wins Best Sentence of the Day.
The people who wrote the sign are also clearly retarded since they
can't form a simple plural word.
|7.24.06 @ 12:00PM|#
"Caution: Retard's in Area"
Yup.
Let's all put our heads together and see if we can come up with a
reason, other than a conspiracy of political correctness run amok
in the Nephi, Utah sherrif's office, that could explain why a
police department wouldn't choose to investigate a charge of a
child throwing a rock at another child.
Hmmmmmmmm...
|7.24.06 @ 12:06PM|#
We're all on the short bus to hell...
And how can they tell when a Utah resident is retarded?
|7.24.06 @ 12:06PM|#
Lamar,
Just as oppressed groups can colonize an insulting word, adopt it,
and strip it of its degrading meaning (like "queer" and, some would
say, "n****r"), so can the opposite happen.
An oppressive majority can take a value-neutral or even positive
word for a minority group, and through insulting usage, change its
meaning into a slur. Think of "philistine" or "gay" as a schoolyard
taunt.
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 12:07PM|#
Let's all put our heads together and see if we can come up
with a reason, other than a conspiracy of political correctness run
amok in the Nephi, Utah sherrif's office, that could explain why a
police department wouldn't choose to investigate a charge of a
child throwing a rock at another child.
I wonder why the sheriff's office hasn't bothered to investigate
parents irresponsible enough to let the equivalent of a
three-year-old run around town without supervision.
Why won't Utahns think of the children?
Remember: sticks and stones may break your bones, but only when
wielded by someone with an IQ of at least 100.
|7.24.06 @ 12:08PM|#
"And how can they tell when a Utah resident is retarded?"
Hey, that's unkind. There are many famous Utahan intellectuals and
scientists! Like, uh... Hmm, can anyone help me out here?
|7.24.06 @ 12:10PM|#
Uh, joe, what is your explanation? I could see your point if
that's all that was occuring, but the PC-obsessiveness enters when
a county prosecutor is "studying his options" against people
exercising their First-Amendment rights, because we may offend the
parents of the oh-so-special "developmentally handicapped"
You're a sad excuse for a liberal.
To add to this, when "developmentally handicapped" came into vogue,
the kids at my school quickly formed the insult "DH", as in "You're
acting like the DH-ers (or a DH)".
Tim Cavanaugh|7.24.06 @ 12:12PM|#
I was going to sic the signage, but I figured it might be a contraction for: "Retard is in area."
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 12:14PM|#
I was going to sic the signage, but I figured it might be a
contraction for: "Retard is in area."
Reading this statement gives me the strangest feeling of deja vu .
. . .
|7.24.06 @ 12:17PM|#
SR,
Philo T. Farnsworth, the inventor of the cathode-ray tube and,
therefore, television was from Utah. He has the best statue in the
Capitol buliding for his efforts.
Randian,
My explanation seems to have been woven into the nest of the server
squirrels.
A kid.
Threw.
A rock.
That's not generally sufficient to motivate Officer Delbert to
abandon his speed trap, regardless of jurisdiction.
|7.24.06 @ 12:20PM|#
I can play the simpleton game too:
A prosecutor.
Considers.
Prosecuting Free Speech.
Instead of assault.
And you make excuses for it. You bite the big one, joe.
|7.24.06 @ 12:21PM|#
Seriously, what can a prosecutor do to a retarded child, legaly?
No jury will ever convict the kid, and it will make the prosecutor
look bad in the eyes of the public for "picking on retards".
On the other hand, there is a long and established tradition of
convicting people for saying something that others might find
slightly offensive. And censorship almost always has popular
support. Going after the people with the sign is a safe bet.
|7.24.06 @ 12:21PM|#
It's wrong to call the poor kid a "retard." They should take
down the sign and replace it with, "CAUTION: Rock-throwing punk,
uncontrolled by parents, in area."
No need for irrelevant insult's.
|7.24.06 @ 12:22PM|#
We do not care for the word "retard."
We prefer "twice as dumb as shit" or "idjit"
Thank you.
|7.24.06 @ 12:23PM|#
"Remember: sticks and stones may break your bones, but only when
wielded by someone with an IQ of at least 100."
Jennifer, aren't you always going on about how modern parents, and
the modern nanny-state they're allied with, makes a habit of
over-reacting to what used to be considered common childhood bumps
and bruises?
A kid.
Threw.
A rock.
Perhaps a Department of Rock Throwing is in order. Of course,
they'll need a budget for the kickoff party.
Also, I like how "Other neighbors told us they have frequently
found Colton wandering onto their property." becomes, in your post,
"roam around town."
Exactly how many agencies do you think should be consulted on
"Operation You Kids Get Off My Lawn," in your opinion?
|7.24.06 @ 12:26PM|#
Randian,
Would you mind quoting back to the part where I supported, or
commented in any way on, the prosecution of the people with the
yard sign?
Thanks.
You've got.
Liberal.
In Your Head.
Disease.
Dan T.|7.24.06 @ 12:26PM|#
I can play the simpleton game too:
A prosecutor.
Considers.
Prosecuting Free Speech.
Instead of assault.
And you make excuses for it. You bite the big one, joe.
Obviously, the prosecutor is "considering" whether or not the sign
is protected free speech, as opposed to harassment.
You may disagree with the conclusion he reaches, but I don't see
how you can blame the prosecutor for at least looking into it.
|7.24.06 @ 12:31PM|#
"How long will "developmentally disabled" have a shelf
life?"
The expiration date has passed. I've already heard teens call each
other "Dee-Dee". As in "Quit being such a D.D."
My sister once said in reply to an insult, "Before I could be
retarded, I'd have to be tarded, then untarded to become
retarded."
|7.24.06 @ 12:31PM|#
"I can play the simpleton game too"
Yes, far better than me, apparently.
I can't seem to get over my habit of refuting points that have
actually been made.
|7.24.06 @ 12:47PM|#
NoStar: You forgot "Pre-tarded," which is the legal state of not yet being tarded.
|7.24.06 @ 12:50PM|#
Joe, me citing the prosecutor's zeal for going after free speech in the name of that non-crime "offense" in lieu of prosecuting an actual crime (you know, a real live assault) was a refutation of your argument that this is not "PC Gone Wild"...I note you still haven't addressed this.
|7.24.06 @ 12:54PM|#
The only conclusion I draw from this tale is sincere gratitude that I don't live in Nephi, UT.
|7.24.06 @ 12:54PM|#
They should be penalized for making such a half-assed sign. I mean, red and green spraypaint on cardboard? Who can see that? They should have used black on yellow with a helmeted, rock-throwing stick figure if they really wanted to send a message.
|7.24.06 @ 12:55PM|#
I remember when all the lads in the schoolyard would call me a philistine. The pain is still with me to this day.
|7.24.06 @ 1:07PM|#
"Every small kid knows there's nothing scarier than a big
retard�that's one of the reasons the mentally challenged get so
much abuse from other kids. The abuse is not right, nor is the
sign, but the solution in this case was for the family of the
13-year-old to have kept him under control in the first
place."
My sister is mentally disabled and every ignoramus on this thread,
with the exception of Joe who seems to be a voice of reason, can go
fuck themselves with a log. This kid maybe be a threat to others,
but it is not because of his IQ. Mentally disabled people are not
any more or less prone to violence than any other group and being
mentally disabled does not make someone violent. You people talk as
if anyone with a mental disability is some kind of wild animal who
needs to be controlled. That is just bullshit. If this kid is
violent, then something needs to be done, but that would be just as
true regardless of his IQ.
Tim,
No local authority has investigated. That may be true, but that
doesn't give you the right to automatically assume that the kid is
guilty and the idiots with the sign or somehow aggrieved. Maybe he
did it, maybe he did not. Further, if he is the equivalent of some
kind of animal roaming the earth as you describe him, how is it
that no one other than the sign wielding people seem to have a
problem? If he is that bad and needs to be controlled I would think
there would be more than one rock throwing incident in 13
years.
|7.24.06 @ 1:07PM|#
Q: What's better than winning a gold medal at the Special
Olympics?
A: Not being retarded.
|7.24.06 @ 1:09PM|#
Damned server ate my post.
I vote for changing the term to "Mentally Bushed" based on watching
W. at the G8.
As for the post and the issue. Give me a fucking break Jennifer et.
al-- no one would prosecute a 13 year old with an IQ of 160 for
throwing the rock.
If you think the parents of the mentally bushed child are the
problem here, you have a seriously warped view of reality.
|7.24.06 @ 1:09PM|#
I've got a 3-year-old son and I can tell you, it would be pretty
scary if he had the strength and size of a 13-year-old. Something
tells me that the sign-posting parents were fed up and the rock
throwing was the last straw.
Although, I would have worded the sign a little differently, I side
with the sign makers on this one. Something like, "Beware of large,
violent kid in area" would have gotten the point across.
Better advice would be to simply move away. I wouldn't want to put
my daughter at constant risk like that.
I feel for the parents of the mentally retarded kid as well. Taking
care of kids is the most difficult, frustrating job I've ever done
(and I've done some doozies). I can't imagine the never ending
burden of taking care of someone who is mentally retarded.
|7.24.06 @ 1:10PM|#
joe:
You make it to be a simple rock-throwing.
But that rock-throwing can easily lead to puppy-crushing and the
breaking of bimbos' necks because they got "purdy hair".
Remember... the only problem with little tards is that they grow up
to be BIG tards.
|7.24.06 @ 1:12PM|#
"Something tells me that the sign-posting parents were fed up
and the rock throwing was the last straw."
Maybe so. Or maybe they are just assholes. My question is, if the
kid is that bad, why isn't the whole neighborhood up in arms? I
would like the hear the whole story.
|7.24.06 @ 1:13PM|#
I hate PC as much as the next guy, but could we maybe find another word other than "retard" or its variants?
|7.24.06 @ 1:14PM|#
Obviously, the solution is to teach the girl to throw rocks back at the retard. Then even Joe can be happy.
Thomas Paine's Goiter|7.24.06 @ 1:17PM|#
As for the post and the issue. Give me a fucking break
Jennifer et. al-- no one would prosecute a 13 year old with an IQ
of 160 for throwing the rock.
Are you kidding me? kid hits girl in head with rock and you think
that goes away? Maybe 30 years ago, but not now.
As for the kid, I don't know if he's guilty or the neighbors are
out to get him, but if he's roaming onto other people's property
and he's hitting kids in the head with rocks, I don't think it's
the child that deserves punishment, he's got the abilities of a
three-year old so it will do no good. The parents, on the other
hand, deserve something severe for not tending to him. If he does
have the mental faculties of a three year old, why is he allowed to
roam around the neighborhood?
|7.24.06 @ 1:19PM|#
Nice Guy has purdy hair...
Can we get this kid in the Special Olympic shot put
competition?
|7.24.06 @ 1:20PM|#
Randian,
"prosecutor's zeal for going after free speech" You mean, when he
uttered the cop-speak phrase for "I'm not going to do shit," ie,
"considering our options?"
"I note you still haven't addressed this." No, I haven't. Which
makes it rather odd that you would accuse me of "mak(ing) excuses
for it."
"But that rock-throwing can easily lead to puppy-crushing and the
breaking of bimbos' necks because they got "purdy hair"."
LOL, Mistah Niceguy!
Ron Hardin|7.24.06 @ 1:20PM|#
It's the official policy of Ohio to similarly mock the
handicapped.
Sign in Central Ohio http://home.att.net/~rhhardin5/deaf.jpg
|7.24.06 @ 1:23PM|#
"Think of "philistine" or "gay" as a schoolyard
taunt."
Yes, nothing was quite so hurtful as being called a philistine by
the schoolyard bully.
|7.24.06 @ 1:25PM|#
Um... hate to rain on the parade here, but why are we all assuming that the rock-throwing incident happened? No one corroborates this guy's story in the cited article -- not his neighbors, not his family, not the police. Tim writes that "local authorities" haven't bothered to investigate the charge, but how on earth do we know that? (Just because the local TV station didn't mention an investigation doesn't mean it didn't happen -- it just means the news team is lazy). Maybe the neighbor saw the kid on his property, put up the sign, and later exaggerated his case to try and justify himself when a mic was shoved in his face. Maybe he heard about the incident from his daughter, who made it up herself. Maybe he just doesn't like mentally challenged kids. Who knows? I'm not saying he's lying, just that we have zero evidence either way (and that includes the "photographs" the guy has, which are never shown to the camera crew).
|7.24.06 @ 1:28PM|#
When John is singing joe's praises, I know I have to be right about this. It's akin to being opposed to anything "bi-partisan".
|7.24.06 @ 1:28PM|#
When John is singing joe's praises, I know I have to be right about this. It's akin to being opposed to anything "bi-partisan".
|7.24.06 @ 1:29PM|#
"The parents, on the other hand, deserve something severe for
not tending to him. If he does have the mental faculties of a three
year old, why is he allowed to roam around the neighborhood?"
If he has the abilities of a three year old, he needs 24/7 care,
which is virtually impossible to find and pay for. The parents are
probably in a serious bind in that regard.
|7.24.06 @ 1:31PM|#
joe, did you really call someone a 'philistine' on the
playground?
That's soooo gay!
|7.24.06 @ 1:34PM|#
"Are you kidding me? kid hits girl in head with rock and you
think that goes away? Maybe 30 years ago, but not now."
A quick google of the topic gives me only a story of a girl who had
her case thrown out by the judge. Not exactly an epidemic of rock
throwing jail time going on in the country. Gimme a break.
John, you and Joe win the rational posts awards. This is a story
about the adults not the kids.
|7.24.06 @ 1:34PM|#
I'm with joe. If police *had* followed up with prosecution, we'd
be reading about this over in Daily Brickbat instead.
Screw both families for getting to the point where anyone outside
their block would care.
wingnutx|7.24.06 @ 1:35PM|#
Another article stated that the 13 year old had been entering
& rummaging through neighbor's houses. I think the rock
throwing incident was probably the last straw for this particular
neighbor.
Back in the late 70's the term we used was "sped", short for
Special Education. If you attended class in the Sp.Ed building then
you were a sped.
|7.24.06 @ 1:35PM|#
Although in an intuitive sense physical assault of another person is worthy of much more legal "interest" than someone putting a sign up somewhere, it's really a question of frequency. A kid throws a rock at a kid somewhere every day; it's not every day that a family puts up such an offensive sign on their property. Kids will be kids is common sense, but when things get high-profile, they become politics. IMHO, something as little as the DA's office saying they'll research their options should be seen as normal posturing and shouldn't get anyone upset, that is, unless and until they actually start going after this family's freedom of retarded expression.
|7.24.06 @ 1:42PM|#
If the prosecutor decides to go after these people (I hope he
doesn't), I hope I see a huge amount of "mea culpas" on here...not
that I am going to hold my breath.
Fact is, threat of government action in the name of "blustering" or
"politics" or "posturing" is enough to chill speech, and you guys
are idjits if you think that the next time someone wants to express
themselves they won't re-consider because of someone's supposedly
harmless "posturing".
|7.24.06 @ 1:43PM|#
If the prosecutor decides to go after these people (I hope he
doesn't), I hope I see a huge amount of "mea culpas" on here...not
that I am going to hold my breath.
Fact is, threat of government action in the name of "blustering" or
"politics" or "posturing" is enough to chill speech, and you guys
are idjits if you think that the next time someone wants to express
themselves they won't re-consider because of someone's supposedly
harmless "posturing".
|7.24.06 @ 2:01PM|#
I was never called a philistine at school, but 'twas many a time
a band of roguish ruffians at recess wouldst call me a "frothy
unchin-snouted jackanapes"! Zounds, how like a serpent's tooth did
their slander sting! I was undone. My schooling at Rennaissance
Junior High was verily like unto a boiling in the pits of
Hell!
PS: You know, one kid tossing a rock at another isn't exactly
harmless. As an energetic young lad, my cousin Chris threw a rock
at his brother Greg, which resulted Greg being taken to the
hospital to get some stitches put in his bloody scalp. Nothing in
the article said the girl actually got hit, but still. It's not so
far from tossing a Jart at her, or shooting at her with a BB gun.
The kid's parent should possibly have received a warning to control
their child, and I suspect the girl's parents are just pissed off
that such didn't happen.
(BTW, if the kid wanders around unwatched, is he in danger? Can
someone mentally equivalent to a three-year-old be trusted to walk
around unmonitored outside and not walk into traffic?)
|7.24.06 @ 2:01PM|#
I agree with the basic point that physical assault, if it
happened, should certainly be a more worthy concern of the
authorities than busting people for bigoted speech. But shit, the
tone of this post, much worse yet, the tone and piling on of some
of the commentators make me feel embarrassed to call myself a
libertarian. Simply because the authorities might have gotten their
priorities screwed up doesn't somehow make it all seem like a cool
thing to pile on and make fun of the retarded and assume all sorts
of ignorant things. Go buy yourselves some tin hearts, you
jackasses. And/or find a way to do some volunteer work with this
community to see for yourselves they are not the scary monsters you
assume. Get out of your computer cubicles and actually reach out to
people a little different from you.
Suppose the family next door were black and it was their 13 year
old son who threw the rock. So, the neighbors put a sign up that
said, "Caution, niggers in the area." Would it suddenly be thought
of as "oh, it's just so p.c. to call them anything else. You see,
those liberal pansies are at it again." And then you would go on to
make watermelon jokes and jokes about how they smell different and
oh, how scaarrrryyyy they all are.
Just FYI, developmentally disabled teenagers commit far fewer
crimes than normal teenagers.
Thomas Paine's Goiter|7.24.06 @ 2:07PM|#
If he has the abilities of a three year old, he needs 24/7
care, which is virtually impossible to find and pay for. The
parents are probably in a serious bind in that regard.
So then a three year old is allowed to roam around the
neighborhood? Yeah, I think not. Punish the parents.
Tim Cavanaugh|7.24.06 @ 2:07PM|#
Back in the late 70's the term we used was "sped", short for
Special Education.
I used that term too, but never realized the etymology. Thanks.
|7.24.06 @ 2:09PM|#
This kid maybe be a threat to others, but it is not because
of his IQ. Mentally disabled people are not any more or less prone
to violence than any other group and being mentally disabled does
not make someone violent. You people talk as if anyone with a
mental disability is some kind of wild animal who needs to be
controlled.
John,
I don't think anyone is equating violence with mental disability.
But as MNG subtly suggests, it's not that mentally challenged
people are more violent, it's just that if they do lash out, they
are much less likely to realize their own strength and force. In
other words, they would be more dangerous in that they may use what
average people might consider "excessive force" unwittingly. I'm
not really taking sides in this particular news item, personally. I
don't know the whole story.
|7.24.06 @ 2:09PM|#
"I wonder why the sheriff's office hasn't bothered to
investigate parents irresponsible enough to let the equivalent of a
three-year-old run around town without supervision."
I think the reason the sheriff's office isn't investigating is
because the kid is always smoking and if a person is outside
smoking, there's not a damn thing anyone can or should do about it.
Besides, if the kid is throwing rocks, IT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY OF
THE LITTLE GIRL'S PARENTS to make certain she doesn't go outside
and get hit with rocks, because other people throw rocks and the
little girl is just going to have to accommodate that fact.
Thomas Paine's Goiter|7.24.06 @ 2:11PM|#
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_4085460
"A Nephi family that alleges their neighbor's autistic teenage son
wanders the streets and rifles through nearby homes has taken down
a sign in their front yard that said "Caution Retard's [sic] in
Area."
Kallie and Darren Galbraith did not return calls seeking comment
about their sign or why they took it down. But Nephi Police Chief
Chad Bowles said they took it down after he visited their home
Friday evening.
"We talked to them. I think they understood by using that type of
wording they made a mistake," he said. "It's so degrading and it
ridicules the [boy's] family."
But Bowles said he understands the Galbraiths' frustration.
He said neighbors have complained for some time about the
13-year-old, whose mother, Carrie Heaton, said has been diagnosed
with autism and other developmental disabilities and functions at a
4- to 5-year-old level.
"Mostly, they complain that he goes into their homes, rifles
through their things and eats their food," Bowles said. "There are
a lot of people in the area who are frustrated with this
boy."
But Bowles said the Police Department has mulled over charges of
criminal mischief and even aggravated assault. The Galbraiths
alleged in November that the youngster threw rocks and hit their
10-year-old daughter in the knee and elbow.
"But how can you prosecute someone like that?" the chief asked. "He
can't understand what he's doing. He's not capable of going into
juvenile court." "
|7.24.06 @ 2:12PM|#
" In other words, they would be more dangerous in that they may
use what average people might consider "excessive force"
unwittingly."
Huey's goin' fishin'! Huey's goin' fishin!
|7.24.06 @ 2:13PM|#
David,
The bar considered it, but realized we were missing a few key
posters to qualify us for that distinction.
|7.24.06 @ 2:19PM|#
You know, they'll kill you for cake and have the strength of ten men.-Onyx Blackman.
|7.24.06 @ 2:19PM|#
Fact is, threat of government action in the name of
"blustering" or "politics" or "posturing" is enough to chill
speech, and you guys are idjits if you think that the next time
someone wants to express themselves they won't re-consider because
of someone's supposedly harmless "posturing".
OK. The idea of someone thinking twice about putting up a "Caution
Retard's in Area" sign is not exatly bone-chilling to me. Actual
government intervention is the problem and it happens in real life
all the time. Let's keep our collective eye on the ball.
|7.24.06 @ 2:20PM|#
I grew up with a retard for a brother. I know, PC would be to
say handicapped, only he wasn't handicapped. There was no workplace
accommodation that would make him an equal. Like this kid, my
brother is simply a mental defective.
Yet no one has gone to the issue of retard strength, and having one
for a brother, I will venture in. Three adults had trouble holding
this kid down when he was 13 and angry, and who knew why he was
angry? Once it was when the TV show Bowling for Dollars was
cancelled. He didn't feel pain like the rest of us, and I suspect
that resulted in his strength when he felt compelled to use it.
Being a retard, he had his own reasons or lack thereof for choosing
when to use it, but he certainly was more than dangerous when
angry.
|7.24.06 @ 2:34PM|#
developmentally disabled teenagers commit far fewer crimes
than normal teenagers.
WIth the information TPG provided, perhaps we'd like to revise that
thinking, perhaps? It's clear that at least some prosecutors don't
even bother with DH-ers because of their mental state.
Mark --- I hope you were being very, very sarcastic. If you were,
brilliant.
Usoe- thank you for your honesty.
|7.24.06 @ 2:35PM|#
developmentally disabled teenagers commit far fewer crimes
than normal teenagers.
WIth the information TPG provided, perhaps we'd like to revise that
thinking, perhaps? It's clear that at least some prosecutors don't
even bother with DH-ers because of their mental state.
Mark --- I hope you were being very, very sarcastic. If you were,
brilliant.
Usoe- thank you for your honesty.
Thomas Paine's Goiter|7.24.06 @ 2:37PM|#
(BTW, if the kid wanders around unwatched, is he in danger?
Can someone mentally equivalent to a three-year-old be trusted to
walk around unmonitored outside and not walk into
traffic?)
My point exactly.
Thomas Paine's Goiter|7.24.06 @ 2:43PM|#
A quick google of the topic gives me only a story of a girl
who had her case thrown out by the judge. Not exactly an epidemic
of rock throwing jail time going on in the country. Gimme a
break.
Riiiiiiight, because all child on child assault cases make some
page listed as THREW ROCK AT KID'S HEAD.
And excuse my language, but do you fucking think I was ONLY talking
about rock throwing cases of assault and no other assault? How
about googling child assault, K? Thanks.
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 2:46PM|#
The kid wasn't trying to hurt anybody. He just wanted to stroke the pretty lady's pretty hair. Somebody tell him about the goddamned rabbits, already.
Tim Cavanaugh|7.24.06 @ 2:46PM|#
Joe and John have a point. Handling a grown retarded kid is no
picnic, and it is pretty clear that the DA isn't going to do much
about this. Moreover, the people who put up the sign are assholes.
Still, there's something weird in the priorities, particularly in
the priorities of TV news, that they give such an emotion-laden,
information-poor reaction to the sign but don't question a mother
who lets what she herself describes as an adult-sized toddler
wander around her neighbors' property.
So there's fault on both sides, and this has been my Cathy Young
moment.
|7.24.06 @ 2:52PM|#
Seriously, what troubled me the most about this story is the
crappy sign. Spray paint on cardboard? Please. If you�re not going
to do it correctly, why bother?
I�m sure their local WalMart has an art supply section. All they
need do is pick up a couple sheets of hard-stock construction
paper, some glue, and maybe some lovely glitter.
As far as color scheme, it�s important to have DARK lettering on
LIGHT background. So I suggest a pretty shade of light yellow with
dark green lettering, in observance of the season. Also,
hand-scrawled lettering is tacky, especially by those who have
difficulty writing. So, proportional letters cut out of paper and
carefully mounted would do the trick. Add some glitter (REMEMBER �
LESS IS MORE), and viola! The whole effort would take less than a
half-hour (and think how much fun it would be to have the kids
help!), and you end up with a much more presentable sign.
If this issue is still cooking five months from now, they can opt
to line the display with tasteful Christmas lights. Again, the key
is to make the sign seasonally relevant.
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 3:03PM|#
In all seriousness, someone with the mind of a three-year-old
certainly cannot be held criminally responsible for his actions,
but at the same time he can't be allowed to go around town
unsupervised, especially if he's throwing rocks, going into
people's homes and taking their things. His parents need to be held
responsible for what their child does, and if they can't keep him
from trespassing or hurting others maybe they should just admit
they're not up to the challenge and put him in an
institution.
I wonder what happens in a couple of years when he gets the
strength of a full-fledged adult, but still has the mind of a
three-year-old who thinks throwing rocks at people is lots and lots
of fun.
|7.24.06 @ 3:04PM|#
" ' developmentally disabled teenagers commit far fewer crimes
than normal teenagers.'
WIth the information TPG provided, perhaps we'd like to revise that
thinking, perhaps? It's clear that at least some prosecutors don't
even bother with DH-ers because of their mental state."
He provided more information about that case not on statistics of
mentally challenged kids committing assault as compared to your
average teenager. I worked and volunteered a number of years ago
for various services that work with this community. Sure, I saw
some people get angry - but usually, with the cases I saw of anger,
violence was self-directed, it it happened. I worked for a number
of years with this community in homes and apartments providing
basic living skills and let me tell you incidents of assault on
other people outside the community was approaching zero percent.
I'm not saying it didn't happen but I didn't hear about it. There
was a couple of cases of minor assaults on staff but that was
pretty rare as well. I believe those with violent tendencies were
for the most part left in the big state institutions - which in
turn help to stimulate more of that violence. And in those big
state institutions they didn't have much chance to get off the
grounds.
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 3:04PM|#
In all seriousness, someone with the mind of a three-year-old
certainly cannot be held criminally responsible for his actions,
but at the same time he can't be allowed to go around town
unsupervised, especially if he's throwing rocks, going into
people's homes and taking their things. His parents need to be held
responsible for what their child does, and if they can't keep him
from trespassing or hurting others maybe they should just admit
they're not up to the challenge and put him in an
institution.
I wonder what happens in a couple of years when he gets the
strength of a full-fledged adult, but still has the mind of a
three-year-old who thinks throwing rocks at people is lots and lots
of fun.
|7.24.06 @ 3:09PM|#
Did I ever tell you about the summer job I once had driving retard's to the zoo? Man, that was a mess. Almost as bad as when this big lizard escaped in my back yard.
|7.24.06 @ 3:10PM|#
I wonder what happens in a couple of years when he gets the
strength of a full-fledged adult, but still has the mind of a
three-year-old who thinks throwing rocks at people is lots and lots
of fun.
::insert O'Reilly Factor joke here::
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 3:11PM|#
I was just getting in touch with my inner
Jennifer.
Damn right, Mark; I've always said there's no difference whatsoever
between a cloud of cigarette smoke and a bunch of sharp rocks
flying through the air, and if you oppose the latter you must
oppose the former as well.
Garth|7.24.06 @ 3:19PM|#
When I was a kid a friend of mine had a much older brother (he
was in his 20s, we were pre-double digits) who was not only
enormous, but was pretty badly retarded. From time to time he would
throw some pretty frightening tantrums, throw things, and one time
he charged into my friends room where we were playing and started
assaulting us with a pair of Barbies wielded like nunchucks. (yes
the visual is funny, but the event was very scary).
The bottom line: eventually they had to put him in an institution
bcse his outbursts kept getting worse.
The worst part: his voice was so similar in pitch to Mike Tyson
that it's sooooo freaky.
|7.24.06 @ 3:20PM|#
Dave,
Run the big lizard over with a bitchin' Camaro. Or, just don't feed
him anymore.
|7.24.06 @ 3:22PM|#
You know, they'll kill you for cake and have the strength of ten men.-Onyx Blackman.
Thomas Paine's Goiter|7.24.06 @ 3:25PM|#
Still, there's something weird in the priorities,
particularly in the priorities of TV news, that they give such an
emotion-laden, information-poor reaction to the sign but don't
question a mother who lets what she herself describes as an
adult-sized toddler wander around her neighbors'
property.
And rifle through their belongings and eat their food.
|7.24.06 @ 3:28PM|#
If you decide to keep feeding that big lizard in your backyard, I recommend filet of sole, or if you are more forward thinking, he could eat your paisley.
|7.24.06 @ 3:31PM|#
The bar considered it, but realized we were missing a few
key posters to qualify us for that distinction.
If I'd gotten there, we might have.
I don't think it matters whether or not the kid threw a rock. The
issue for us is whether someone should be prosecuted for putting up
a sign, no matter how heinous the message?
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 3:34PM|#
The issue for us is whether someone should be prosecuted for
putting up a sign, no matter how heinous the message?
No. If you're offended by your neighbor's sign, either ignore it or
put up a sign of your own.
|7.24.06 @ 3:37PM|#
"Philo T. Farnsworth, the inventor of the cathode-ray tube and,
therefore, television was from Utah."
Thanks, joe!
|7.24.06 @ 3:39PM|#
I'm sure that many or most developmentally challenged teenagers
are fine, warm, loving and lovable people. I am also inclined to
accept that mentally challenged teens statistically commit fewer
crimes than other teens on average. (Assuming it is not the case,
as was hinted by someone above, that the cops have a tendency to
ignore crimes committed by developmentally handicapped teens
because they are committed by developmentally handicapped
teens. In which case, we have an under-reporting problem and the
statistics might be skewed.)
I have already indicated my opinion of the illiterate sign at July
24, 2006 12:21 PM.
However, the kid in question is not a statistical average, he is a
specific individual person, and I am even more alarmed about him --
and for him -- after reading the additional info provided by Tom
Paine's Goiter. The kid goes into into people's houses and goes
through their stuff?
What happens when the kid stumbles across somebody's chainsaw and
decides to play with it? Or matches? Or gun?
What are the odds that if they kid finds something dangerous in
another person's house, and hurts himself or someone else, that the
burgled homeowner will end up being sued? In the case of a gun, I'd
bet it's a foregone conclusion.
I feel sorry for the kid, but I'm getting angry at his parents. How
hard are they working to make sure their child doesn't leave their
property unattended? I'm no developmental pyschologist, so I help
someone educates me -- is it possible for a child at the stage of a
3- or 4- or 5-year-old to be taught not to leave the yard? Can such
a child be depended upon not to do so?
PS: It occurred to me that the neighbors could lock their places up
at all times, but for families with young kids of their own, who
might be in and out of doors all the time in the summer, that's not
practical. Nor should it be required. Assuming that boundaries are
clear, the burden of preventing trespass is not upon the property
owner.
|7.24.06 @ 3:41PM|#
This kid maybe be a threat to others, but it is not because
of his IQ. Mentally disabled people are not any more or less prone
to violence than any other group and being mentally disabled does
not make someone violent. You people talk as if anyone with a
mental disability is some kind of wild animal who needs to be
controlled.
I have worked for many years with retarded individuals in an
"intermediate care facility". Most of our residents are verbal, and
have levels of cognitive ability relatively close to the normal
range. Now, this is the only facility I have worked at, so I dont
know if this is atypical, but I can tell you that the level of
physical aggression among the individuals we serve far, far exceeds
what you would find in the community at large. The bulk or our
residents do not have any serious behavior problems, but a good
5-10% of them have serious behavior problems involving aggression
against peers or staff, several of them have inflicted serious
injury (i.e. requiring medical attention beyond first aid) on other
residents and staff. For instance, one of our younger and stronger
residents has a bad habit of forcefully shoving smaller and older
residents to the ground, on one occasion resulting in a broken hip,
and a broken eye socket on another occasion. Another resident bites
residents who are being too loud, on one occasion biting off a good
portion of someone's lower lip. And for every incident resulting in
injury, there are 99 attempts to harm others in which staff
intervene before the injury can occur. I offer this merely as an
anecdote.
|7.24.06 @ 3:49PM|#
if a kid throws a rock at a tank in some places, they get shot
to bits....but Im cracking up at the comments & what gets
people riled here, in this new cybergeek world Im likin so much.
Look here: the gal who mentioned her sister has -what? dd problems-
I admire her fierce protection of her sister. In that vein, this
has reminded me of a strange situation back in Vermont.
A big mo-dern highschool was built, well off a 55mph road. As you
approached the school, the speed limit dropped to 25mph. This went
for quite a ways on either side of the HS for ostensibly "normal"
kids. Heading East, you came to the Resume Speed 55MPH sign.
75 yards beyond THAT, was a small building set right on the road. A
school for seriously mentally handicapped kids. And that probably
sums up our lack of reguard for them what aint all there, & the
overcoddling of them what supposedly are.
Gettin hit on the head w/ a rock is no fun, & a human male,
going thru puberty, w/ the mind of a 3 yr old, needs watching. Or a
seat in the Senate......
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 4:03PM|#
I'm no developmental pyschologist, so I help someone
educates me -- is it possible for a child at the stage of a 3- or
4- or 5-year-old to be taught not to leave the yard? Can such a
child be depended upon not to do so?
Even if it isn't, you can install fencing that makes it impossible
for the child to leave.
|7.24.06 @ 4:10PM|#
My family adopted a wetback when I was a kid. I don't call him
Hispanic as I want to be perfectly honest - oh, he swam them
rivers, boys. The kid was freakishly strong and put any sort of
round object in front of him and dern if he couldn't kick it
between your splayed fingers. Some of the neighbor kids would
sometimes come to take a peek at him, poke him with a stick, but
you should have seen their eyes go wide and the blood from their
faces drain when he'd open his mouth and let forth a spew of those
odd sounds.
Once, a neighbor kid came over. And Jose just started kickin' the
kid as though he had called his mother or sister somethin' awfully
dishonorable. So, we put him in a facility for like-minded
Hispanics. I guess some folks call it "jail." And darn, those
people in jail are VIOLENT.
|7.24.06 @ 4:22PM|#
"is it possible for a child at the stage of a 3- or 4- or
5-year-old to be taught not to leave the yard? Can such a child be
depended upon not to do so?"
http://www.invisiblefence.com/
|7.24.06 @ 4:28PM|#
"Another resident bites residents who are being too loud"
Actually, that's a pretty good remedy.
|7.24.06 @ 4:30PM|#
"I'm no developmental pyschologist, so I [hope]... someone
educates me -- is it possible for a child at the stage of a 3- or
4- or 5-year-old to be taught not to leave the yard? Can such a
child be depended upon not to do so?"
Even if it isn't, you can install fencing that makes it
impossible for the child to leave.
I wonder, Jen -- even if the kid is 13 YO and soon to grow to his
adult size? I would think you'd need a very, very tall fence. When
I was a small 4-year-old, I was already climbing over my parents'
chainlink fence -- the one that separated our back yard from the
big field behind our house. (Admittedly, I couldn't yet climb it
very skillfully -- that's how I broke my arm.)
A quick Google seems to indicate that a lot of communities have
regulations that limit maximum residential fence heights to five or
six feet or so. Darn intrusive regulators again, standing in the
way of a possible solution. I suppose the neighbors wouldn't like
living next to a miniature Joliet penitentiary, but that seems to
be preferable to the alternative of ongoing casual
burglaries.
I'm not fightin', I'm just thinkin'.
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 4:38PM|#
A quick Google seems to indicate that a lot of communities
have regulations that limit maximum residential fence heights to
five or six feet or so.
Good point. But if the parents can't keep the kid on their
property, they will have to seriously consider the fact that they
can't keep him at all. As other posters have mentioned already,
suppose he gets into something dangerous during one of his casual
burglaries? Sticks a fork in an electrical outlet? Eats a whole
bottle of candy-tasting vitamins or baby aspirin? Finds a
gun?
And I don't know how big this kid is, but even if he's only average
size for a boy his age, that's still plenty strong enough for him
to do serious damage to a small child (or small female adult),
especially considering he's not capable of knowing his own
strength.
At the risk of sounding creepy, I'll also point out that if he
hasn't developed any sexual urges yet he will soon enough. And I
doubt he'll be able to restrain those any better than he can
restain the urge to steal people's things or throw rocks at
people.
|7.24.06 @ 4:41PM|#
Good idea Buddy. And maybe he needs as well a dog to keep him
company and teach him how not to get buzzed by the fence.
Anon your population is self-selected. You are seeing people whose
parents can't care for them, either because the parents are too
old, or the kids act up too much.
|7.24.06 @ 4:49PM|#
i wonder how many non-libertarians would be converted to the
cause after reading this thread?
-cab
|7.24.06 @ 4:51PM|#
I once had a 9 year old visiting who put her fingers in a food processor and turned it on. When my kids were 3, we had all the outlets blocked and drawers locked. So someone who is as tall as a 13 year old and as bright as a 3 year old would require a lot of parental attention. There is an apparent neglect issue. A sheep dog might be a good babysitter, backed up with an invisible fence.
|7.24.06 @ 4:55PM|#
There is an apparent neglect issue.
johnl is right on this one, I think. It seems like the parent(s) of
the mentally disabled boy are guilty of negligence, to say the
least. I would argue that even a completely typical,
normally-developed child at that age needs a lot of supervision
and/or attention.
|7.24.06 @ 5:01PM|#
You can teach a 4 year old not to go wander into traffic, but
not so much a three year old.
But this kid is not three, he's 13 with the motivations of a three
year old. With a lot of patience and positive/negative
reinforcement I bet you could teach him to stay in your yard. i
think the idea of a dog for a pet for him is an excellent one, for
teaching rules and how to obey.
or put a leather mask on him and lock him in the basement like the
Gimp.
|7.24.06 @ 5:06PM|#
i wonder how many non-libertarians would be converted to the
cause after reading this thread?
EVERYTHING WE MUST SAY SHOULD BE FOR THE CAUSE.
NO OPINION CAN BE CONTROVERSIAL; IT WILL MAKE US 'LOOK BAD'
DIFFERING OPINIONS OF A CONTROVERSIAL NATURE WILL ALIENATE US FROM
SOCIETY
WE WILL BE IRRELEVANT IF WE DEBATE THE ISSUES OF THE DAY; WE SHOULD
BE MORE RESPECTFUL.
Thomas Paine's Goiter|7.24.06 @ 5:13PM|#
So someone who is as tall as a 13 year old and as bright as
a 3 year old would require a lot of parental attention. There is an
apparent neglect issue.
If he's eating cupcakes and cheetos at the neighbors house without
permission, that's a bit of an understatement.
|7.24.06 @ 5:17PM|#
If he's eating cupcakes and cheetos at the neighbors house
without permission, that's a bit of an understatement.
Yeah, somebody should at least be making sure that this boy isn't
consuming that most-supreme-of-all-crimes-against-humanity:
trans-fat. He is clearly on a path to self-destruction.
|7.24.06 @ 5:24PM|#
i disagree with everything except the very last
line
In my world, respect is earned; it does not come from simply being
born with a disability. I don't think anyone on here was saying
anything untrue or intentionally hurtful; even if they were, who
cares? People who instantly judge Libertarians by the opinions of
some on this board are low-minded fools who need to think with
their heads more and their hearts less.
Lincoln|7.24.06 @ 5:35PM|#
To back up what anonymous is saying above about mentally
disabled people; they are more violent. In many cases they don't
know how to express themselves. We learn how to assert ourselves
during our development. Many mentally disabled people are still
stuck in passiveaggressive mode. A baby kicks and cries for food. A
child asks for it. An adult buys carry out at the philly
cheesesteak store catering to their language of choice. Mentally
disabled people often don't mean to hurt you but that doesn't mean
their actions don't cause harm.
So, yeah, the parents of said disabled child are to blame for not
keeping a watchful eye. And the sign bearers are complete assholes
as well. I don't care if the rock broke your kid's nose -- that
sign is not mature on any level.
And this isn't a football game. One set of parents can be negligent
and the other can be assholes at the same time.
|7.24.06 @ 5:36PM|#
"In my world, respect is earned"
interesting, thank you for that insight into your world view. i'll
return the favor. in my world, respect is given freely, but can be
revoked for cause.
mine is working pretty well for me. i hope yours is working well
for you. it does seem to allow you to get riled up pretty easily,
tho.
-cab
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 5:40PM|#
in my world, respect is given freely, but can be revoked for
cause.
Reaching the age of thirteen without figuring out that it's bad to
throw rocks at people or steal their belongings sounds like pretty
good cause to me, as is being the parent of such a child and doing
exacly nothing to prevent such behaviors.
|7.24.06 @ 5:41PM|#
Utarded; I coined it to describe my slow mental slide since
moving to Utah.
As far as a 3 year old child (physical or mentally) running lose;
no excuse, period. My wife and I picked up a very small child from
a very busy street corner last year and called the cops. An hour
later we tracked her mother down several blocks away - she looked
overwhelmed (John). But so what? Your kid can�t play in traffic no
matter how busy you are. That is, if you want to keep the kid.
|7.24.06 @ 5:45PM|#
Considering the comments so far, it would seem like the only
option to protect the neighbor's life, liberty, and property is to
kill this teen-child before it becomes a full-fledged
man-child.
I mean, it terrorizes the neighborhood worse than Heathcliff. This
is the only way.
/sarcasm
|7.24.06 @ 6:14PM|#
Have police EVER investigated childhood bullying or have people
all become wusses?
Kids aways used to bully, make fun of, pick on, and there was never
a criminal investigation- just "oh, kids will be kids,
hahaha"
And I can guarantee judging ( sorry but I will judge these grownup
"retards") by the neighbors that they almost certainly do NOT know
how to use an apostrophe "s" and they were NOT writng a contraction
of "retard" and "is."
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 6:21PM|#
Kids aways used to bully, make fun of, pick on, and there
was never a criminal investigation- just "oh, kids will be kids,
hahaha"
Oh how I miss my carefree early teen years--breaking into people's
homes, stealing their personal possessions, other forms of
trespassing, throwing rocks at people much smaller than me . . .
no, wait a minute. I never did any of that, because by the
time I was thirteen I damn well knew better. And if a
mental disability made me incapable of learning this, my parents
would not have allowed me to run loose through the neighborhood,
just as they didn't allow me to roam free when I was only three
years old.
|7.24.06 @ 6:21PM|#
Reaching the age of thirteen without figuring out that it's
bad to throw rocks at people or steal their belongings sounds like
pretty good cause to me, as is being the parent of such a child and
doing exacly nothing to prevent such behaviors."
jennifer,
ok, maybe the parents, especially based on the information in
thomas paine's goiter's post. but the kid? that seems pretty
cold.
-cab
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 6:27PM|#
ok, maybe the parents, especially based on the information
in thomas paine's goiter's post. but the kid? that seems pretty
cold.
I respect the kid insofar as I respect any human being--I certainly
do not want to see him killed, I would oppose anyone who wanted to
torture him, he deserves certain basic hman rights, etc.
But that's not the same meaning of "respect" that I would use in a
sentence like, "Despite our past disagreements, I have come to
respect you." In that regard, no; I do not respect this kid and see
no reason to.
Though I respect him more than his parents. He's autistic--what the
hell is their excuse?
|7.24.06 @ 6:39PM|#
What a fascinating thread! I haven't witnessed such a display of
delirious delight in name-calling since about third grade. I was
one of those annoying liberals-in-the-making who always stuck up
for the kid who was teased and harrassed by stupid schoolyard
bullies (apparently the bullies were libertarians-in-the-making).
My son is autistic, and if one of my neighbors had posted a sign
about "retards" when he was growing up, I'd probably still be doing
time for assault.
To all of you who find retarded people so scary, I'd suggest you do
some research about the (non) likelihood of violence among the
retarded. Or get a teddy bear to hug when you get too scared.
To all of you who just want to re-visit your childhood pastime of
calling people retards, being fucked with a log is too good for
you.
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 6:45PM|#
My son is autistic, and if one of my neighbors had posted a
sign about "retards" when he was growing up, I'd probably still be
doing time for assault.
If the neighbors repeatedly complained about your son doing things
like breaking into their homes or throwing rocks at their kids,
would you do anything to stop your son from continuing these
behaviors? If so, then your neighbors would have no cause for
complaint. The neighbors in the story did.
|7.24.06 @ 7:00PM|#
for what it's worth, the weasel at 6:51 used my fake email
address (complete with accidental misspelling), but they were not
me.
bully, since i cannot imagine a way this could have happened by
accident, i hearby revoke my respect for you, for cause.
devastating blow, i know, but you gave me no choice.
-cab
|7.24.06 @ 7:24PM|#
And this isn't a football game. One set of parents can be
negligent and the other can be assholes at the same
time.
It's Cathy Young's evil twin!
Actually, you are quite right. But for some reason, I am less
concerned about the illiterate assholes who put up a sign that
their would-be-offendee can't even read, than about the parents of
the Unattended Little Wanderer.
To all of you who find retarded people so scary, I'd suggest
you do some research about the (non) likelihood of violence among
the retarded.
I made this point before, but it was apparently overlooked, so I'll
make it again with slightly more emphasis:
The statistically low incidence of crime and violence among
generally sweet, mild-mannered and gentle developmentally disabled
folks is abso-bum-buggering-lutely irrelevant to this
discussion of a particular and specific, rock-throwing,
wandering-unsupervised-into-people's-homes-and-taking-stuff
individual.
If we could only say to him, "You know, statistically, most
developmentally disabled people don't exhibit the kind of
troublesome behavior that you do," and this caused the kid to say,
"Okay, I'll change my ways to conform to the statistical norm,"
then it would be relevant. But I don't think it works that
way.
All that aside, I think it's obvious the parents are falling short
here. And I applaud any parents who have a developmentally disabled
kid to raise, and who do a proper job of parenting under what can
be very challenging circumstances. Not to say it's without rewards;
I'm not blind to the joys a child can bring, with or without
disabilities, either. I used to know a woman with an autistic
daughter. This particular girl was eventually able to make
tremendous, almost miraculous progress. The mother wrote a short
essay about it, and I kept telling her to get it published.
|7.24.06 @ 8:06PM|#
My son is autistic, and if one of my neighbors had posted a
sign about "retards" when he was growing up, I'd probably still be
doing time for assault.
Because might makes right, right asshole? You're entitled to hit
people when they say things you don't like, especially since it's
about your precious little one.
apparently the bullies were
libertarians-in-the-making
Because we're the ones (oh holy liberal) who tell people when and
where they can smoke, what they can eat, what they can buy and when
etc, and we use to the government to throw people in jail when we
don't get our way. You probably need a teddy bear in case the big,
bad Big Mac comes and forces you to clog up your arteries! Or if
the evil puff of smoke gives you cancer forever!
IDIOT!
GET FUCKED!!!!
Tim Cavanaugh|7.24.06 @ 8:48PM|#
Ayn Randian, do not use any more profanity on this or any other
reason.com thread again. Do not insult anybody on any reason.com
thread again.
And no, that rule doesn't go for everybody. Just you.
|7.24.06 @ 8:53PM|#
An oppressive majority can take a value-neutral or even
positive word for a minority group, and through insulting usage,
change its meaning into a slur.
A bit late in the thread, I know, but this isn't usually what
happens, semiotically.
Things that mainstream society views negatively cannot keep a
neutral name, because the negativity rubs off on the word. It's why
we cycle through 'mortuary' to 'funeral parlor' and so on, in a
endless game of catch up. Same as it ever was.
Anyway, in our neighborhood Mr Weaver was the high school counselor
who served all the special kids. They became known as Weaver's
Rangers, and then just weavers.
20 years later, kids in that little corner of Detroit were still
insulting each other with "you're a weaver" and none of them had
any idea why they were saying it. Weavers.
|7.24.06 @ 9:58PM|#
Wow, just got back to my computer and I guess I should respond
to some responders:
Jennifer- my son did not throw rocks but he did occasionally wander
onto other people's property despite out attempts at eternal
vigilance, and he could never resist grabbing any unattended soda,
anytime, anywhere. We were fortunate to live among people who were
fond of David and accepted his eccentric and occasionally
disruptive behavior with good humor. You are right that these
neighbors might have cause for complaint, but I have a strong
visceral response to the word "retard". Imagine that your kid (or
any kid you happen to love), had an accident that resulted in brain
damage and retardation- it happens. Now imagine other kids calling
your kid a retard, or taunting his siblings about what a retard
their brother is. NOW imagine scrolling through a series of
comments from adults who apparently are in love with the word, or
occasionally offer alternative insults, fondly remembered from
their school days. Pissed me off, that's all.
Stevo--My comment about non-violent retarded people was a reponse
to those posters who cited anecdotes about scary (and strong!)
retarded people they had encountered-- I make no judgment about the
particular guy in this story.
Ayn Randian-- No, I am not entitled to hit someone who insults my
kid. That's why I called it "assault" and mentioned jail time.
Also, I do not support interference with anyone's smoking,
drinking, eating, purchasing, or drug-taking habits, would throw
almost no one in jail, and prefer my smoke first-hand, thank you.
And your profanity is okey-dokey with me (obviously).
Anyway, my remarks were not about the specifics of this case, just
a gut reaction to a bunch of people throwing around a word that
makes me nuts.
Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 10:33PM|#
my son did not throw rocks but he did occasionally wander
onto other people's property despite out attempts at eternal
vigilance, and he could never resist grabbing any unattended soda,
anytime, anywhere. We were fortunate to live among people who were
fond of David and accepted his eccentric and occasionally
disruptive behavior with good humor. You are right that these
neighbors might have cause for complaint, but I have a strong
visceral response to the word "retard".
For the record, I doubt I'd have a problem with a sweet-natured but
'off' kid who took any open soda cans I happened to leave outside,
but such petty thievery (if I'd even deign to call it
that) lacks the nasty undertone of breaking into a house
or throwing rocks.
Amendment: I doubt I'd have a problem with the soda snatcher
if his parents at least tried to make him stop it. A
good-faith effort, is all I'd ask. It sounds like these parents
didn't even do that, and furthermore this kid's behaviors are
wildly different from yours.
I don't think anybody here has an issue with an autistic neighbor;
it's that the autistic neighbor is causing serious
problems, not petty annoyances, for those around him.
Even if the kid can't help throwing rocks and breaking into houses,
from his victim's perspective that doesn't change the fact that
he's throwing rocks and breaking into houses. This must stop.
As for the "retard" language: no, I don't like it either, and if
ever I did post a sign I wouldn't use that word. But I suspect
these people have somewhat less linguistic refinement that most
posters here. Hell, there are still places where people
honestly don't know it's considered unacceptable to say
"nigger."
And I imagine these people were at the end of their rope. Bad
cliche, I know, but I'm tired.
|7.24.06 @ 10:36PM|#
Tim, a warning would've been nice. However, it is your property
and you set the rules. Please let me know when my punishment is
over.
Forgive me, for I had strong words for somebody who told us that
libertarians are bullies. Davidsmom, clearly that wasn't your
intent and I apologize.
|7.24.06 @ 10:41PM|#
....how can they tell when a Utah resident is
retarded?
I can usually tell, `cause the Utahns helpfully dress them in black
and white, pin a nametag on them that designates them as "elders"
even though they can barely shave, and send them to my neighborhood
in pairs, to wander around bothering people. They are mostly
harmless.*
(OK, everybody drink!)
Kevin
* This is a joke, BTW.
|7.24.06 @ 10:46PM|#
Davidsmom, folks are a lot more tolerant of bumbling soda snarfing retarded kids than rock throwing menacing ones. Americans cut disabled people a lot of slack (give us the best parking spaces, discounts on bus passes, the best seats on the bus, ...), but there is bound to be a backlash if we push it too far (cut to the front of line at Disneyland). Expecting the neighborhood to put up with a violent kid is too much.
|7.24.06 @ 11:23PM|#
I wonder what happens in a couple of years when he gets the
strength of a full-fledged adult, but still has the mind of a
three-year-old who thinks throwing rocks at people is lots and lots
of fun.
Yeah, better to just kill him now, or at least put him in a zoo
somewhere.
|7.24.06 @ 11:40PM|#
spencer -- false dilemma.
Or maybe you think we should just offer the kid a steady supply of
younger kids so he can bash their skulls in with rocks, huh? Oh, I
know -- we'll build this big, like, complicated maze or labyrinth,
so he can't find his way out. That'll keep him from wandering the
neighborhood! Only every few days we'll force some young kids into
his labyrinth as a human sacrifice, that he can kill with rocks!
That'll keep him amused so he doesn't bug the neighbors. We'll make
a game out of it! He can wear this big pair of bull's horns and
we'll call him ... oh, I know! The Minotard!
Or ... just maybe we can find another solution, somewhere in
between. Something that neither requires that the kid be killed,
nor allows him to kill other kids in the neighborhood and be
destructive. You think?
Davidsmom -- Thanks for responding to the responders to your
response. Maybe I overresponded to your response when I responded.
I also apologize for the sarcasm above.
|7.25.06 @ 12:26AM|#
As a parent of a severly handicapped child, I am shocked at the attitude of the people who put up that sign and of the people who give them any credit.
|7.25.06 @ 12:36AM|#
You know, Kara, it's getting a little old when people feel they just have to mention that they are "the parent/sibling/godfather/neighbor" to a handicapped child. If you're offended by the gosh-darn sign, just say so. Knowing/Raising a handicapped child does not make your argument or indignation more convincing. It doesn't give you moral sanction or free reign. It's just annoying.
|7.25.06 @ 12:58AM|#
The story says neighbors say the kid has 'wandered onto
property.' Okay, wandering into someone's yard, if uninvited or
unwelcome is annoying but it's not 'breaking into people's houses'
as people have claimed here. And it's also a behavior your average
normal kid does pretty frequently as well. The story also has a
claim from the one set of parents that the kid threw a rock at
their daughter. It didn't say he was repeatedly harassing and
assaulting people in the neighborhood. But most of the posters here
have automatically assumed the kid was not only guilty of what was
alleged in the story but that what he did was far worse. It's just
as likely these people find the retarded kid annoying for other
reasons or they have exaggerated what he did because they are
bigots. I'm not automatically concluding that - if he assaulted the
neighbor girl with the rock then the proper steps need to be taken,
depending on what actually happened. Lots of kids throw rocks at
other kids. There are ways to deal with that, depending on the
severity, and similarily this should be dealt with considering the
facts at hand. But why just jump to the conclusion these people
aren't a bit whacked themselves?
Also, Anonymous, it doesn't sound like the population you worked
with had much interaction with the community. I also saw a few of
these places and it's not where I'd recommend the ordinary
developmentally disabled kid be placed, lest we want him to turn
out to be more violent like the other kids in the facility. But
there are plenty of mentally challenged kids and adults who live
*in* the community who are no more dangerous, probably much less
so, then people in the average population. That's not to say it's
all peaches and cream, there's no incidences, etc. Obviously, there
are problems occasionally. Also, there are some special forms of
retardation that do tend to lead to more violence than others, and
those folks are often placed in special sorts of homes, facilities,
etc.
I think it's fine to disagree over the facts of the case and the
lesson to be drawn, etc. and for the record, I think the
authorities involved do have their priorities a bit out of whack.
But that's no excuse to enjoy making fun of retarded people in
general or to extrapolate other stereotypes from this particular
incident.
|7.25.06 @ 1:02AM|#
Most of you people are a bunch of mean-spirted pricks. Calling
someone a retard is the same as calling them a nigger. Saying
someone is "retarded" is dated but not offensive, but "retard" is a
insult. This kid MAY have thrown a rock at one other kid and MAY
have trespassed. That doesn't mae him a monster, I am pretty sure I
did both things at one time or an other when i was kid. I think the
family next door has a right to put up the sign; but I hope the
neighbors put up "asshole family in area" signs. If the kid has a 3
year old mind then it is not really his fault, if anything they
should have put up a "caution, bad mom in area" sign.
This is no diffrent then putting up a sign that said "nigger in
area" sign if your kid got a rock thrown at him by a black
kids.
Sam
Ayn_Randian - yea, i have a retarded brother- suck it
|7.25.06 @ 1:30AM|#
Kara-- Take my advice and do what I'm about to do: go to bed, do not pass go, do not read any more of these comments, and do not assume that the nastier comments on this thread represent the reception your child will get from the world at large. Hug your kid and forget everything you read here. Besides, we wouldn't want to annoy the locals.
|7.25.06 @ 1:44AM|#
Final comment on the thread that has gotten me in so much
trouble:
First, I said what I said at 12:36 because it's true: be morally
offended by the sign, but feeling the need to mention that you have
a loved one who's handicapped isn't an argument, it's an
intimidation tactic to get those of us who do not and happen to
disagree to shut up. "ooh, s/he has a child who's handicapped, best
not to argue with him/her then." It doesn't work that way.
I may have come across with a nasty tone (earning me a chastisement
from M. Cavanaugh, no less) but it's because this just concretizes,
for me, this constant "it's for the children" while also
playing on our basest sympathies for those who are handicapped.
Don't get me wrong, I treat everyone equally. But the victim
mentality, the sheer sense of entitlement those parents/guardians
seem to have sometimes gets old, because it constantly leads to
restraints on my liberty.
"For the children (or the weak)" has become so frightening to me,
you may as well say "for the proletariat". Hence my strong
reaction.
|7.25.06 @ 1:45AM|#
Sam, the boy can't read the sign. It's to motivate his parents.
The boy's mom seems to be too lethargic to keep up with him, but
there is ancient technology (sheep dogs, leashes) and modern
(invisible fence) that can keep the boy in his own home but the
family lacks the will to use it.
And joe, you don't have any friends from Utah. Violent retarded
thieves are a protected species there. To call it a conspiracy
suggests that it's covert.
|7.25.06 @ 2:00AM|#
Swear to God, this is the last bit of energy I'll waste on this site, but this is for Ayn Randian: if you hate the victim mentality so much, quit whining about being so annoyed and frightened and intimidated and having your liberties restrained. And what in hell are "basest sympathies" and what makes you think you have any? AND it's "free rein", not "free reign". FOR THE PROLETARIAT- take that!
|7.25.06 @ 2:19AM|#
And on further thought, I wonder about the role of authorities in this incident at all. I mean, when I was a kid, there were all sorts of incidences between kids. I don't remember once the local cops coming into play. The neighbors dealt with it, sometimes awkwardly but they dealt with it. I remember a kid throwing a dirt clod at another kid and hitting him in the eye. The boy's father came out and pushed that kid's head into a tree. The father of this other boy heard about it from his son, went and confronted the other father; harsh words were spoken but the incident ended. There were similar types of events that happened as well. I'm not saying the authorities should never be called in for the crimes of children, but I'm wondering, is the cry for the authorities to bust this kid, or his mom, or demand they put up tall fences (over one alleged incident or alleged incidences of trespassing), get leashes, etc. have anything, anything at all to do with the images we have of retarded kids as scary monsters and other derogatory stereo-types? So many here just assumed the worst about this kid, presumed guilt on his part when it might be that the parents who put up the sign are not only assholes, but quite possibly bigoted liars or exaggerators. And then a few of you went on to extrapolate stuff from the story that wasn't even there - to make your case, like the kid was breaking into houses. Where's Penn's "Bullshit" show when we need it.
|7.25.06 @ 7:31AM|#
Seriously, what troubled me the most about this story is the
crappy sign. Spray paint on cardboard? Please. If you�re not going
to do it correctly, why bother?
I�m sure their local WalMart has an art supply section. All they
need do is pick up a couple sheets of hard-stock construction
paper, some glue, and maybe some glitter.
As far as color scheme, it�s important to have DARK lettering on
LIGHT background. So I suggest a pretty shade of light yellow with
dark green lettering, in observance of the season. Also,
hand-scrawled lettering is tacky, especially by those who have
difficulty writing. So, proportional letters cut out of paper and
carefully mounted would do the trick. Add some glitter (REMEMBER �
LESS IS MORE), and viola! The whole effort would take less than a
half-hour (and think how much fun it would be to have the kids
help!), and you end up with a much more presentable sign.
If this issue is still cooking five months from now, they can opt
to line the display with tasteful Christmas lights. Again, the key
is to make the sign seasonally relevant.
|7.25.06 @ 7:34AM|#
From the original article:
"Tom Brownlee, Advocate for those with Disabilities: "When I was
growing up, people always used that word in front of me and called
me retarded."
Someone who knows how hurtful that word can be is Tom Brownlee, who
today is an advocate for those with disabilities.
Tom Brownlee, Advocate for those with Disabilities: "I hate that
word, it was very offensive and I just want them to see that people
with disabilities deserve the respect that they are entitled to."
"
Maybe the kid can get a job for the local paper...
|7.25.06 @ 2:00PM|#
lortsnaff --
Sorry, but before you got all worked up, you should have read the
thread. Tom Paine's Goiter found another article that gave more
details:
-------------------
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_4085460
"A Nephi family that alleges their neighbor's autistic teenage son
wanders the streets and rifles through nearby homes has taken down
a sign in their front yard that said "Caution Retard's [sic] in
Area."...
But Bowles said he understands the Galbraiths' frustration.
He said neighbors have complained for some time about the
13-year-old, ...
"Mostly, they complain that he goes into their homes,
rifles through their things and eats their food," Bowles
said. "There are a lot of people in the area who are frustrated
with this boy."
-----------------------------------
Scroll up and see:
Comment by: Thomas Paine's Goiter at July 24, 2006 02:11 PM
|7.25.06 @ 4:17PM|#
lortsnaff --
Sorry, but before you got all worked up about the details that
posters are "making up," you should have read the thread. Tom
Paine's Goiter found another article that gave more details:
-------------------
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_4085460
"A Nephi family that alleges their neighbor's autistic teenage son
wanders the streets and rifles through nearby homes has taken down
a sign in their front yard that said "Caution Retard's [sic] in
Area."...
But Bowles said he understands the Galbraiths' frustration.
He said neighbors have complained for some time about the
13-year-old, ...
"Mostly, they complain that he goes into their homes,
rifles through their things and eats their food," Bowles
said. "There are a lot of people in the area who are frustrated
with this boy."
--------------------------
Scroll up and see:
Comment by: Thomas Paine's Goiter at July 24, 2006 02:11 PM
|7.25.06 @ 4:20PM|#
BTW, I'm sorry if I'm being kind of harsh dickhead on this thread. But right away I could foresee that the sympathy for the boy would lead to some people being dismissive of the real problems he is causing, and that need to be addressed and resolved somehow.
|7.25.06 @ 8:07PM|#
I've read quite a few posts suggesting that the parents of the
autistic child use an electric fence to keep him in the yard. Does
anybody here actually know how an electric fence works? Allow me to
enlighten you: I went to the "Humane Contain" electric fence
website, and it promises "A revolutionary technique that delivers
shock stimulus in short, intense pulses."
Am I the only person here who believes administering electric
shocks to people, regardless of their handicapped status, is really
wrong? I mean, this isn't a spanking we're talking about here, as
anyone who has accidentally touched an electric fence can tell
you.
|7.28.06 @ 2:27PM|#
I guess the people who wrote the sign were hit in the head with something a lot heaver than a rock, long ago. Those assholes don't deserve to be parents if they wrote such an insensitive, never mind politically incorrect, sign.
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