Ronald Bailey | May 12, 2006
Conservative politics and science are at loggerheads once again, according to the Seattle Times: Indiana Republican Congressman Mark Souder objected that a scientific panel at the Centers' for Disease Control National STD Prevention Conference did not have advocates for abstinence only education on it. The Seattle Times reports:
Researchers organizing a federal panel on sexually transmitted disease say an agency allowed a conservative congressman to include two abstinence-only proponents, bypassing the scientific-approval process.
Indiana Rep. Mark Souder, a Republican who chairs the House subcommittee on drug policy, questioned the balance of the original panel, which focused on the failure of abstinence-until-marriage programs.
In an e-mail to Health and Human Services officials, his office asked if the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) was "clear about the controversial nature of this session and its obvious anti-abstinence objective?"
So the CDC duly rolled over and invited two abstinence-only advocates to participate and the Feds even paid their way while other panelists had to cover their own expenses.
The Seattle Times quotes William Smith, director for public policy for the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the U.S. as asking, "We've spent $1.2 billion over a 25-year period on abstinence-only programs. Shouldn't we have one study that shows that they work?"
That's a very good question.
Whole thing here.
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I'm so sick of this crap. Science is now political at the CDC.
Between this and the RU486 "controversy" over a bacterial infection
that doesn't even seem to be related to the pill (as other women,
and men have gotten it too)...gah.
I say we replace Congress with the first 4 names from each section
of the phonebook except "C".
I see the priest from the Brain Room sequence in Woody Allen's
Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex.
"Blasphemy! Blasphemy!"
"We've spent $1.2 billion over a 25-year period on
abstinence-only programs. Shouldn't we have one study that shows
that they work?"
This stupidity doesn't surprise me since it comes from the bunch
who says that the make reality whatever they want it to be. Now, we
know how: Throw money at it.
Coersion, not having data and not wanting data is nothing new for the crusaders. This seems to be handled much like the DARE program. They'll never let go of their banana.
Figuring out how to reduce risky sex doesn't strike me as a
particularly scientific question.
The problem with abstinence is that people will disobey sometimes
and have sex anyway. The problem with condoms and handjobs is that
people disobey and end up having more pleasurable kinds of sex
anyway, especially after the less gushy types of sex become "old
hat." (no pun intended)
As far as which of these proposed mores (or both or neither) will
correlate with lower STD transmission, that is an empirical
question, rather than an analytical one because of the roles of
subjective things like guilt, enjoyment of orgasm, shame and
horniness. I would hate to see a panel that rejected abstinence out
of hand. That would be faith-based and not scientific.
Dave W.:
The problem isn't with advocating abstinence in sex education. The
problem is abstinence-only sex education, which is the
only thing that will make these people happy.
Timothy,
You've confused the CDC with the FDA. The FDA has been thoroughly
politicized for years under Bush, like any other federal agency.
The CDCs (CsDC?), on the other hand, was established as a group of
independent research bodies, not under the control of the executive
branch or Congress.
It's too bad they caved.
The problem isn't with advocating abstinence in sex
education. The problem is abstinence-only sex education, which is
the only thing that will make these people happy.
That's certainly true, but there's a more fundamental issue too. It
is one thing to educate people about the relative risks of various
behaviors and quite another to tell someone what choice they should
make in light of those risks. I'm not sure the government generally
has any business with either of those tasks - but it certainly has
no business with the second.
hmm so a democratic sociaty has choosen to take take money from
its citizens and now the recivers of that money are bitching that
poeple are demanding that the process of how that money is spent
must include people of all sides in a democratic fashion...
Why libertarians here are not taking the side of the "abstance
only" group one general prinsiple is beyond me.
I say we replace Congress with the first 4 names from each
section of the phonebook except "C".
This just in: The Kennedy family announces that recent geneological
research has shown that in the 16th-Century, their forebears were
spelling their name Kaaaaannady, and that to celebrate their Irish
heritage, they will be reverting to the earlier spelling.
"We've spent $1.2 billion over a 25-year period on
abstinence-only programs. Shouldn't we have one study that shows
that they work?"
The dirty little secret here is that the same problem applies to
non-abstinence based harm-reductions sex education as well. There
is no evidence that sex ed that provides detailed information on
contraception and disease prevention actually reduces unwanted
pregnancies or disease rates. In fact, it is very easy to show that
over the decades when sex ed spread so did the very harms it was
supposed to offset. Nor is there any clear cut difference in
populations exposed to sex ed and those not.
We like to tell ourselves that if people have the right information
then they will behave in a "rational" manner that will maximize
their long-term happiness, wealth and health. Unfortunately,
especially in the case of sex, this has not proven to be the
case.
Those pushing abstinence only (which I don't personally agree with)
are on firm fact ground when they assert that harm reduction type
education doesn't really appear to actually reduce harm. They also
at least have a prima fascia case that harm-reduction sex ed makes
children think that being sexual promiscuous is acceptable behavior
without also convincing them of the need to be sexual responsible
when doing so. The net result is that more people have risky
sex.
Most people who blindly support harm-reduction sex ed do so because
it seems like common sense that education will alter behavior in a
positive manner. However, the actual data does not support that
conclusion. Human behavior remains as perverse as always.
Why libertarians here are not taking the side of the
"abstance only" group one general prinsiple is beyond
me.
Because as I said, while most libertarians may not think the
government should be bothering with this issue at all, if it is
going to do so, it should be limited to a factual education of
risks that (perhaps) one may not be aware of to facilitate that
individual's ability to make the correct choice for himself.
However, it certainly should not extend to telling people what
choice they should make given those risks (and benefits!).
DaveW, the science, such as it is, suggests that the most successful method in terms of reducing pregnancy and STDs, full-spectrum sex-ed is most effective.
"marching proudly backwards to the future"
That's the direction these folks are taking us. Check out the
satire "The Department of Homeland Decency: Decency Rules and
Regulations Manual" for a look at what they really want. It's at
www.homelanddecency.com
hmm so a democratic sociaty has choosen to take take money
from its citizens and now the recivers of that money are bitching
that poeple are demanding that the process of how that money is
spent must include people of all sides in a democratic
fashion...
So "democracy" trumps science?
If everyone believes that abstinence-only sex education works, then
it must ergo work, right? It's just like teaching creationism.
Despite all the available data, if the people believe in
"intelligent design", there must be something to it. Therefore, we
must "teach the controversy" lest we offend the bible-beating tax
payers.
Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The evidence is what it is, and if
it leads to a certain conclusion, then that's the most likely
conclusion. It doesn't matter what the taxpayers of this
"democracy" think
Why libertarians here are not taking the side of the "abstance
only" group one general prinsiple is beyond me.
Because we aren't a bunch of anti-sex prudes who lay awake at 3 AM
wondering if someone is having intercourse out of "wedlock." That,
and we see the above nonsense for what it is: Social engineering.
Something conservatives bitched an moaned about while Democrats
were in power, but find perfectly acceptable when done in the name
of their fucking god.
It seems to me that the confounding variable in all this is
alcohol.
I'm no prude, but I've also been a teetotaler for my entire
sexually active life. Not surprisingly, harm-reduction sex ed has
worked out pretty well for me. No STDs to date (*knocks on
wood*)
Shannon Love: I'm fairly certain I've read some study results that compared groups of children exposed to no sex ed, abstinance-only, and full-spectrum sex ed, and that the full-spectrum sex ed had the best results. I'm not sure how extensive those studies have been, but at least preliminary results seem to be showing good results for full-spectrum sex ed.
joe: a fair point, but I was thinking of the this. In which the CDC also seems to be saying that there's a bacterial infection going around, and that a few of the people who have it took the abortion pill, so the pill must be related in some way. It's like the Dave W. school of epidemiology.
joshua corning,
1. When did the American demos vote in favor of abstinence-only sex
education?
2. When did "Indiana Republican Congressman Mark Souder" become
"democracy?"
But let's skip those tribbling details, and get right to the heart
of the matter:
3. What happens when the majority party, what with their democratic
mandate and all, decide that they want NASA to start using an
inferior model of 0-ring on the space shuttle, against the
scientifically-validated conclusions of the researchers and
technicians the government hired to make that determination?
Me? I wait for the reality-based shuttle to start boarding,
thanks.
Timothy,
The information in the body of that story makes it pretty clear
that the CDC is not focusing on women who took RU-486 and got this
rare disease any more than they are focusing on other correlations.
Nor do I see anyone from the CDC saying anything about that
correlation, or any of the others mentioned in the story, that
assigns any causality, or even goes beyond "There might be a
correlation here, let's take a look at it."
The headline writers and political activists seem to have decided
that that is the story, but I don't see the CDC making that
jump.
"No STDs to date"
Really? How'd you manage that?
"{(*knocks on wood*)"
Oh, yeah: the safest sex of all.
Hey One Handed Practitioner of the dismal science.
aka: master of autocorrelation and heteroskedasticity... (the Duke
of Durbin-Watson. The Best at BLUS... the man who put the PROC in
proc autoreg... Timothy!!!!!)
here's the STATS take on the RU(trippin)486.
http://www.stats.org/record.jsp?type=news&ID=568
cheers! :)
p.s., may your money be super neutral.
DaveW, the science, such as it is, suggests that the most
successful method in terms of reducing pregnancy and STDs,
full-spectrum sex-ed is most effective.
I haven't seen this science. Notwithstanding your assertions, I am
going to guess that the following is what happens:
- full spectrum advocates have studies showing their way works
best;
- condom only advocates have studies showing their way works
best;
- abstinence only advocates have studies that show that their way
works best;
- full spectrum advocates ignore / discount studies besides their
own;
- condom only advocates ignore / discount studies besides their
own; and
- abstinence only advocates ignore / discount studies besides their
own.
HERE IS WHAT SHOULD BE HAPPENING:
1. Science should make a panel with all three of these types so
that they can come up with a comparison study that they will all
agree to.
2. Government should be staying out of this issue altogether (as
Brian Courts suggested). Although gov't involvement in public
health issues is often helpful, sex doesn't seem to be one of those
areas because it relates to much to personal identity, personal
choice and decisions that should be in the decentralized hands of
individual families. This isn't Walter Reed studying yellow fever
or the British military making penicillin commercially
feasible.
Joe,
when did we have a vote on manditaroy sex ed classes?
Drinking and smoking do kill you and are bad for you but if i want
to live in my own little imaginary world where they are good for me
what gives you the god damn right to tell me different?
O rings be damned.
And why the fuck do you think it is OK to steal my money to force
parents to raise thier kids the way you want them to rather then
how they want them to?
Hey i am not for manditory abstance classes but that is not what
your problem is...your problem is people raising thier kids the way
they want to and the state not having a god damn thing to do with
that desision.
Drinking and smoking do kill you and are bad for you but if
i want to live in my own little imaginary world where they are good
for me what gives you the god damn right to tell me
different?
In light of the situation, I think a better question for this
analogy would be "what gives the government the right to lie and
say that drinking and smoking are actually extremely good for you,
and deny evidence to the contrary"?
Dave W.
Googling 'sex education studies' brought up this as the first link.
It does appear that of the authors' awareness there is some room
for doubt, but that there's reason to be skeptical of
abstinence-only programs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_education
oooh good one jennifer lets ignore my arguemnt that government should stay out of it then state that government mandating a certian type of sex ed program is bad then implictly candone by silance when it mandates a different sex ed program that you happen to agree with...well done...you flushed your libertarian ideals down the toilet all without getting your hands wet.
oooh good one jennifer lets ignore my arguemnt that
government should stay out of it then state that government
mandating a certian type of sex ed program is bad then implictly
candone by silance when it mandates a different sex ed program that
you happen to agree with.
Take a breath before you pass out, Joshua. I'm just pointing out
that "should government be in the business of teaching about health
issues" is a different question than "should government be in the
business of lying about health issues." What they're doing
now is the latter.
Because we aren't a bunch of anti-sex prudes who lay awake
at 3 AM wondering if someone is having intercourse out of
"wedlock." That, and we see the above nonsense for what it is:
Social engineering. Something conservatives bitched an moaned about
while Democrats were in power, but find perfectly acceptable when
done in the name of their fucking god.
bullshit akira,
Sex-ed is mandated and if that is not social engeneering at its
worse then I don't know what is. Parents should have to choice as
to when and how they educate thier children no matter what program
you think is scientificly "proven" to be the best on average.
Putting people of diverse opinions on a board only accentuates this
point.
I'm just pointing out that "should government be in the
business of teaching about health issues" is a different question
than "should government be in the business of lying about health
issues."
funny how that point always seems to fall through the cracks when
this debate comes up. I mean all the abstance guys being on the
board should only highlight the point that gevernment should not be
in the buissness of teaching sexual morality regardless if that
seaxual morality comes form the left or from the right.
Political "science" at the CDC is nothing new. It's just that now the Rs are directing it rather than the Ds. Back in the Good Ol Days (mid 1990s) the CDC was churning out junk science anti-gun studies center and left.
Careful, there, Josh, all that spittle and Twinkie crumbs are
likely to mess up your keyboard.
STDs are, like it or not, public health issues. I'd agree with
other posters that we really ought to be doing better-designed
studies to ascertain whether or not sex-education is effective, and
if so, which kinds are most effective. And then design our sex-ed
based on those results.
joshua asks, "when did we have a vote on manditaroy sex ed
classes?"
We didn't. Which is why it is foolish to assign democratic
legitimacy to either school of thought - which, I'll point out, is
a foolish action one of took, and one of us didn't.
And take your whiny assed angst about the existence of public
schools, and find somebody who gives a crap.
If you look outside of the US, there is good evidence that
education for women, of any kind, reduces the rate of unwanted
pregnancy and the transmission of STD's. There is certainly a
strong correlation between STD's unwanted pregnancy, teen pregnancy
and general educational level of the female in the US. There is no
reason to believe that this would not be improved via education
that includes information on specific risks.
Some sample abstracts to consider.
The effect of dislike of school on risk of teenage pregnancy:
testing of hypotheses using longitudinal data from a randomised
trial of sex education.
Bonell C, Allen E, Strange V, Copas A, Oakley A, Stephenson J,
Johnson A.
Public and Environmental Health Research Unit, London School of
Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, Keppel Street, London WC1E 7HT, UK.
chris.bonell@lshtm.ac.uk
STUDY OBJECTIVE: To examine whether attitude to school is
associated with subsequent risk of teenage pregnancy. To test two
hypotheses that attitude to school is linked to pregnancy via
pathways involving young people having "alternative" expectations
or deficits in sexual health knowledge and confidence. DESIGN:
Analysis of longitudinal data arising from a trial of sex
education. Examination of associations between attitude to school
and protected first sex, unprotected first sex, unprotected and
protected last sex, and pregnancy, both crude and adjusting in turn
for expectation of parenting by age 20, lack of expectation of
education/training at age 20, and sexual health knowledge and
confidence. SETTING: Schools in central and southern England.
PARTICIPANTS: Girls of median age 13.7 years at baseline, 14.7
years at follow up 1, and 16.0 years at follow up 2. MAIN RESULTS:
In unadjusted analysis, attitude to school was significantly
associated with protected and unprotected first sex by follow up 1,
protected first sex between follow up 1 and 2, unprotected last
sex, and pregnancy. Dislike of school was more strongly associated
with increased risk of these outcomes than was ambivalence to
school. These associations remained after adjusting for
socioeconomic status and for expectation of parenting, lack of
expectation of education/training, and various indicators of
knowledge and confidence about sexual health. CONCLUSIONS: Dislike
of school is associated with subsequent increased risk of teenage
pregnancy but the mechanism underlying any possible causal link is
unlikely to involve "alternative" expectations or deficits in
sexual health knowledge or confidence.
DiClemente RJ, Crosby RA.
Emory University, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory
University, Atlanta, Georgia 30322, USA.
rdiclem@sph.emory.edu
PURPOSE OF REVIEW: Given the disproportionate burden of sexually
transmitted infections for adolescents, there is an urgent need to
identify effective prevention programs. RECENT FINDINGS: This
review documents the efficacy of recent sexually transmitted
infection-prevention programs. Overall, the review identified few
sexually transmitted infection-prevention trials published since
2000. Moreover, considerable variability in program efficacy was
observed across studies. Some studies observed changes in sexually
transmitted infection-associated risk behaviors, while only a few
identified reductions in biologically confirmed sexually
transmitted infections. In general, few programs demonstrated
consistency of effects and a significant magnitude of effects
across a broad range of outcomes. SUMMARY: New and innovative
approaches are needed to amplify sexually transmitted infection
intervention effects. Program development and evaluation needs to
continue in a coordinated, scientifically rigorous fashion to
optimize impact and, as important, to sustain effects over
protracted periods. Furthermore, for interventions with
demonstrated efficacy, a critical challenge is to translate them
into sustainable programs that are widely disseminated. Ultimately,
preventing sexually transmitted infections in adolescents does not
only depend on the development of effective interventions alone,
but on how effectively these interventions can be translated and
integrated into self-sustaining components of clinic, school or
community programs, particularly in those areas and among
adolescent populations most adversely impacted by the epidemic of
sexually transmitted infection.
Outcomes of three different models for sex education and
citizenship programs concerning knowledge, attitudes, and behavior
of Brazilian adolescents.
Diaz M, Mello MB, Sousa MH, Cabral F, Castro e Silva R, Campos M,
Faundes A.
Reprolatina: Solucoes Inovadoras em Saude Reprodutiva, Campinas,
Brazil. mdiaz@reprolatina.org.br
Three different school-based sex education and citizenship programs
in public schools in Rio de Janeiro, Belo Horizonte, and Salvador,
Brazil, were evaluated in a cross-sectional study comparing
knowledge, attitudes, and practices in sexuality, citizenship, and
gender issues among adolescents participating in the programs'
activities as compared to adolescents enrolled in schools without
such programs (controls). Results showed that Salvador's program
achieved good results, with significant changes in knowledge on
sexuality and reproductive physiology, attitudes regarding
citizenship, and current use of modern contraceptives; Rio de
Janeiro's program succeeded in improving students' knowledge of
reproductive physiology and attitudes towards sexuality; Belo
Horizonte's participants showed greater knowledge of reproductive
physiology and STI/HIV prevention but had less positive attitudes
towards gender issues, while reporting greater sexual activity. The
main difference between Salvador's program and the others was the
focus on creative and cultural activities; Belo Horizonte's main
difference was its lack of interaction with health services and
professionals. However, after the evaluation Belo Horizonte
reframed its educational strategies and launched a scaling-up
process in a joint effort with the health and school systems.
I feel compelled to point out that the notion of fertilizing an egg with sperm is just a theory. In the interest of teaching the controversy, I strongly urge schools to devote equal time to the medieval view, which held that the sperm were actually miniature humans that got implanted in the woman.
In the past week, I've seen Reason regulars assert that there
are deep divides among scientists over the greenhouse effect, the
efficacy of abstinence education, and the harms of second-hand
smoke.
During that same period, I have seen many of the same posters
assert strongly that the effect of the minimum wage on the economy
is a settled issue, that everyone who knows anything about
economics knows.
Frankly, I'd expect people who associate with a magazine called
Reason to be a little more reality-based.
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