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Fiction, Nonfiction, What's the Dif?
In response to a Smoking Gun exposé showing that important parts of James Frey's best-selling "memoir" of addiction and redemption, A Million Little Pieces, were fabricated or heavily embellished, his publishers say, basically, so what? Yesterday Doubleday and Anchor Books, which published the hardcover and paperback editions, respectively, issued this statement:
Memoir is a personal history whose aim is to illuminate, by way of example, events and issues of broader social consequence. By definition, it is highly personal. In the case of Mr. Frey, we decided "A Million Little Pieces" was his story, told in his own way, and he represented to us that his version of events was true to his recollections. Recent accusations against him notwithstanding, the power of the overall reading experience is such that the book remains a deeply inspiring and redemptive story for millions of readers.
In other words, whether or not Frey's account is literally true, it reflects a deeper truth. Which is fine, except that sort of book is usually called a "novel," as opposed to a "memoir," a term that indicates the events described by the author actually, you know, happened. In this case, the book's main selling point was its truth, as opposed to its literary qualities. After Frey sold the manuscript to Doubleday, he told The New York Times last month, "we were in discussions...as to whether to publish it as fiction or as nonfiction." But "when Doubleday decided to publish the book as nonfiction, Mr. Frey said, he did not have to change anything. 'It was written exactly as it was published,' he said."
Although "Mr. Frey asserted that he had presented his publishers with extensive written records of his time in an addiction-treatment center, as well as medical records and other documentation," writes Edward Wyatt in today's Times, Doubleday and Anchor's "statement that the book is supposed to be 'true to his recollections' implies that the publishers did little or no checking." Wyatt points to "the gap that has emerged between book publishing and the rest of the media, which in recent years have been under increasing scrutiny over the accuracy of their reporting." (Yes, he mentions the Jayson Blair scandal at his own paper.)
I'm not sure there's anything new about this gap. It's certainly not a development that has occurred just "in recent years." Based on my experience as a reader and an author (with two different publishers, both reputable), I'd say nonfiction publishers routinely do "little or no checking," beyond copyediting and vetting for libel. To judge from his own account and the reviews I've read (I haven't read the book), Frey did not get much of the former. As for the latter, it sounds like Frey avoided potential lawsuits by disguising people's identities (although that precaution is not noted in the book) and/or describing people who are, by his account, no longer with us (assuming they existed to begin with).
Avoiding libel lawsuits and telling the truth are, in any case, by no means the same thing. That's especially true when, as in this case, the fabrications mostly paint the author, as opposed to a possibly litigious acquaintance, in a negative light. But even with run-of-the-mill nonfiction, readers should not assume that any asserted facts have been independently verified unless they are potentially libelous. For the most part, they have to trust the author, which is what book publishers generally seem to do. After publication, of course, accuracy can be checked against other sources, and The Smoking Gun has done an admirable, dogged job of that with Frey's book. But as the article notes, with memoirs there's only so much that can be checked, and the rest you have to take on faith.
|1.11.06 @ 1:39PM|#
I was always amused at stuff like Communion sitting in the nonfiction section, myself. Jacob's point is so very true.
|1.11.06 @ 1:54PM|#
Sheeple have a deep-seated need to worship personalities. People
were tatooing themselves with terms from Frey's book, for Christ's
sake.
Losers.
|1.11.06 @ 1:58PM|#
My wife got it a couple months ago. She was horrified by the
dental scene in the book, where he gets dental surgery without
painkillers because of his addiction. It struck me as improbable,
yet at the same time familiar.
We talked to my wife's brother, who's a dentist. He has never heard
of any ethical dentist performing a procedure without local
anesthesia, regardless of whether the patient is a current or
recovering drug user.
Yet the story sounds familiar to me. I'm pretty sure that at some
point in my life (maybe high school health class?) I heard that the
dentist will do procedures without painkiller if you've used
illegal drugs recently. It sounds ridiculous, but I know I've heard
it.
Is this maybe a propaganda story or urban legend that Frey passed
on in his book? Has anybody else heard of such a thing? I'm sure
the story is false, but I'm also sure I've heard it somewhere
before. In which case his "memoir" is not only false, it's also not
very original
|1.11.06 @ 2:05PM|#
thoreau,
It sounds like it has all the makings of an urban legend to me. Not
that it's anything new for people to pass off urban legends as fact
in books. Morgan Spurlock did the same thing in his book.
|1.11.06 @ 2:11PM|#
Thoreau,
At the risk of losing my heretofore carefulyy cultivated blog-wide
hipness quotient, I can remember an episode of "", in the late
80's. The sitcom that starred Joey Lawrence and a loveable, if
unattractive sister(about whom the show title referred, it cant
remember it). Anyway, there was a third sibling in the family,
reformed drug abuser, who got dental surgery without anesthetic.
Aside, in this same episode, said addict reminisced about riding
rollercoasters on LSD, giving someone I know a helluva idea that
summer.
The shows name, uh, started with a B I think.
|1.11.06 @ 2:14PM|#
Thoreau,
At the risk of losing some points off my heretofore carefully
cultivated blog-wide hipness quotient, I can remember an episode of
"", in the late 80's. The sitcom that starred Joey Lawrence and a
loveable, if unattractive sister(about whom the show title
referred, it cant remember it). Anyway, there was a third sibling
in the family, reformed drug abuser, who got dental surgery without
anesthetic. Aside, in this same episode, said addict reminisced
about riding rollercoasters on LSD, giving someone I know a helluva
idea that summer.
The shows name, uh, started with a B I think.
|1.11.06 @ 2:14PM|#
*cough* Rigoberta Menchu *cough*
Its for the movement man. It doesn't matter if its not true. It
ought to be true and that is all that matters.
|1.11.06 @ 2:15PM|#
thoreau,
About 10 years ago an orthodontist ground my teeth down to "even
them out" without using anesthesia, but that wasn't because of any
drug use on my part. He claimed that anesthesia was unnecessary
because the grinder wasn't penetrating the tooth. Whether it did or
didn't, I don't know, but it certainly hurt like hell. Also,
apparently up into the 1960s it was not uncommon to perform dental
procedures on children without anesthesia because of the belief
that their ability to perceive pain was less than adults and that
their screaming and thrashing was just the result of them being
uncooperative.
|1.11.06 @ 2:20PM|#
I wonder how long it will be until Doubleday and Anchor books publish a tome whining about how people are too mistrusting of books published by Doubleday and Anchor?
Timothy|1.11.06 @ 2:21PM|#
Matt: You're thinking of "Blossom". The actress who played the main character never got much more attractive, but the gal who played her best friend "Six" turned out pretty cute.
|1.11.06 @ 2:21PM|#
*cough* Rigoberta Menchu *cough*
And based on that example, it can be suggested that the
truthfulness of a memoir is in inverse proportion to its likelyhood
of winning major awards.
|1.11.06 @ 2:38PM|#
This reminds me of Calvin's fictional autobiography, where everything is the same except he has a flamethrower.
Timothy|1.11.06 @ 2:38PM|#
About 10 years ago an orthodontist ground my teeth down to
"even them out" without using anesthesia, but that wasn't because
of any drug use on my part. He claimed that anesthesia was
unnecessary because the grinder wasn't penetrating the
tooth.
My orthodontist did the same thing about the same time...only his
excuse was that he didn't have nitrous or an injectable local
because he didn't have an anesthesiologist.
|1.11.06 @ 2:40PM|#
John DeWitt,
Only if that memior says the right things, meaning it soothes the
guilty consciences and confirms the Marxists beliefs of the
uppercrust liberal critics who give such awards.
Captain Holly|1.11.06 @ 2:42PM|#
Not to brag, but I don't ever take novocaine when I have
fillings, and my dentist is cool with that.
It's not because I'm a he-man or a recovering addict, it's because
I had a real bad reaction to novocaine when I was
a kid (face swelled up like a balloon), so I've avoided it ever
since. In all, I've had about 15 fillings and one chipped tooth
repaired since then, all of them performed without drugs.
As for the pain, there's only about 5-10 seconds of real
discomfort. If you can grit your teeth (figuratively) and make it
through that part, the rest isn't bad at all. In addition, my
dentist doesn't charge me as much because he doesn't have to use
any drugs.
However, in the spirit of the original post, and lest I be accused
of exaggerating, I have never had a root canal or
tooth extraction, so I'm not sure if I'd be able to go drug-free
for those.
|1.11.06 @ 2:45PM|#
I went to the college where an sociology professor debunked Rigoberta Menchu, and some teachers in other disciplines at that college still have the cojones to teach it like nothing happened.
|1.11.06 @ 2:47PM|#
I went to the college where the sociology professor who debunked Rigoberta Menchu teaches, and some teachers in other disciplines at that college still have the cojones to teach it like nothing happened.
|1.11.06 @ 2:52PM|#
In the past few years, novocaine does nothing for me. My dentist never cared... he figured it would kick in eventually.
|1.11.06 @ 2:56PM|#
Captain Holly,
If you are allergic to novacain, it makes sense to maybe tough it
out for minor dental work. I would be curious to hear exactly what
novacain is and whether it is an opitate based drug. The crux of
the claim seems to be that Frey couldn't take the novacain because
he was a drug addict and it would cause him to start using again.
How exactly is that supposed to work? Novacain doesn't make you
high, it just nums your mouth. What about that experience is going
to make you want to take drugs again? People relaspse into drugs
because of their psychological need to get high. True, that when
they first quit the body may go through withdrawl and have a
physical need for the drugs, but that ends eventually and the
reformed addict is left with his psychological need to get high,
which is sometimes worse than the physical need. I don't see how
having your mouth numbed is going to rekindle the psychological
need to get high and cause Frey to go out and use drugs again.
Further, even if he had a physical need for drugs and novocain is
opium based, the use of the drug would just satisfy that need and
make easier to stay clean. I doubt that even this is true since I
have never heard that visiting a dentist will make you test
positive for opiates and therefore doubt seriously that novacain is
even opiate based.
This is a high school urban myth that this fraud put into his book
and a bunch of dumb ass literary people believed.
|1.11.06 @ 2:59PM|#
The bad thing with regards to Frey's book is that it is
presented as utterly true and as such, it is an
inspiration to those who want to believe one can overcome's
addictions w/out the need for 12 step programs, prescription drugs,
psychiatry, etc.
But since the most important parts of his story are completely
fictional, he is betraying those who look to him as an inspiration.
He isn't living proof you can achieve what he claims to
have achieved. He is more like a confidence man.
Also the prose is pretty awful, if it was presented as fiction I
doubt it would have been published.
|1.11.06 @ 3:03PM|#
In all, I've had about 15 fillings and one chipped tooth
repaired since then, all of them performed without
drugs.
Fifteen fillings? What the fuck do you eat, rocks and battery
acid?
As for the pain, there's only about 5-10 seconds of real
discomfort.
Having gone through a filling in a molar without adequate
painkiller, I can attest that this is absolutely false, allowing of
course for various people's pain threshholds.
Captain Holly|1.11.06 @ 3:07PM|#
John:
Novocaine is not an opiate. Opiates act on specific receptors in
the central nervous system, novocaine merely blocks transmission of
nerve impulses.
|1.11.06 @ 3:08PM|#
See, this is another reason I'm glad I opted for general anesthetic instead of just local when I had all my wisdom teeth out...
|1.11.06 @ 3:15PM|#
Captain Holly,
Since novocaine is not an opiate, it makes no sense that a former
drug addict could not take it. Frey was making the whole thing
up.
Captain Holly|1.11.06 @ 3:17PM|#
Fifteen fillings? What the fuck do you eat, rocks and
battery acid?
Considering I'm in my mid-40's, that averages out to about one
filling every two years. Which is, well, about average for adults
my age. YMMV.
Having gone through a filling in a molar without adequate
painkiller, I can attest that this is absolutely false, allowing of
course for various people's pain threshholds.
The last part of that sentence is the key.
It also depends on how deep the cavity is.
Once again, Your Mileage May Vary.
|1.11.06 @ 3:18PM|#
John, most of the numbing agents used are similar to cocaine - novocaine, lidocaine, and even actual cocaine is used in some cases. I can totally understand how these could trigger a cocaine addict.
|1.11.06 @ 3:22PM|#
Obryzan,
How? You don't get the high from them. Is it going to trigger a
physical need for the drug? Further, just because it is like
cocaine doesn't mean that it is cocaine or will have all of the
effects of cocaine. I want to hear what a pharmocologist has to say
about this. I am very skeptical, especially considering the fact
that Frey is a known liar anyway.
|1.11.06 @ 3:27PM|#
I'm not saying Frey isn't completely lying. But you can get an effect from them. Certainly not as full blown as snorting lines of coke, but the relationship to cocaine would be similar to the relationship between opium and heroin - vastly different effects, but still same family.
|1.11.06 @ 3:28PM|#
Considering I'm in my mid-40's, that averages out to about
one filling every two years. Which is, well, about average for
adults my age. YMMV.
I'm 36, and I've had four fillings in my entire life. And I don't
think I'm that far in the left tail, nor am I some sort of
health-food nut or dental-care maniac. In my experience, and among
the people with whose dental care I'm acquainted, one every two
years is amazingly high.
Captain Holly|1.11.06 @ 3:47PM|#
Phil:
"One in every two years" is an average -- 15 fillings over 30-plus
years. In reality, most of my fillings occurred in bunches; first
after I got my braces off, and then after my wisdom teeth came in.
In the 20-odd years since then, I've only had about 3-4 fillings;
in fact, I can't remember the last time I had one.
Allowing for variation, 16 fillings over a 40+ year lifespan is not
that unusual. In fact, I'd daresay that's pretty close to the
center of the bell curve.
|1.11.06 @ 3:59PM|#
About the tooth fillings--genetics plays a part in it--my father
had miserable teeth, I do as well. I have a lot more than 15
filling and a bunch of root canals. Count yourself lucky that you
don't need dental work.
And my mouth is numb before a drill comes near it.
Captain Holly|1.11.06 @ 4:05PM|#
Phil:
The statement "one filling every two years" is an average -- about
15 fillings over a 30-plus year period. I'm not really getting one
filling every other year, which is why I included the standard
internet disclaimer "YMMV" which stands for "your mileage may
vary".
Actually, most of my cavities came in clusters before I was 21;
first after I got my braces off, then after my wisdom teeth came
in. Since then, I've had only 3-4. I can't even remember when I had
the last one filled.
Really, 16 cavities over a 43-year lifespan is not that unusual for
people from my generation. In fact, I'd daresay I'm in the middle
of the bell curve for Baby Boomers.
The fact those younger than me haven't had as many is probably due
to 1) you haven't lived as long and 2) there's been a tremendous
improvement in dental hygiene and fluoridation since when I was a
kid.
But to prevent further hijacking of this thread (just imagine what
we could say about mandatory fluoridation), that's all I will say
on the subject.
|1.11.06 @ 4:39PM|#
John, most of the numbing agents used are similar to cocaine
- novocaine, lidocaine, and even actual cocaine is used in some
cases. I can totally understand how these could trigger a cocaine
addict.
Look, I don't claim to be an expert on the pharmacology of dental
pain relievers, but my brother-in-law has been practicing dentisty
for a long time, and he's never heard anything about not giving
painkillers to drug addicts. He went to dental school, he goes to
continuing education seminars, yadda yadda. I'm pretty sure that at
some point in his career he's had a recovering addict in his
office. So far no ill effects.
What he does have a problem with is people who fake pain
in their teeth to get codein and vicodin prescriptions.
Now, my brother-in-law could be wrong, maybe there are reasons why
drug addicts shouldn't be treated with novocaine. But if there are,
they aren't well communicated to the dental community. And it's not
like he's unaware of drug addiction issues. Like I said, he's had
to deal with people who fake pain to get drugs.
Also, my mother is an ER nurse, they get TONS of addicts come in,
and she's never heard of local anesthetics causing problems for
addicts or recovering addicts. And she routinely sees patients who
need a local painkiller while a wound is sutured.
So, on the one side we have two very experienced health
professionals who are used to dealing with drug addicts and
regularly attend continuing education seminars. On the other side
we have an author who's been caught lying. I know which side I'm
taking.
Anyway, has anybody else heard this urban legend?
|1.11.06 @ 5:19PM|#
THOR(eau) =
Yes, i once had wisdom teeth removed without painkillers. I don?t
recommend it.
It was the early 90s, I was ~16, and my recently divorced parents
were suddenly discovering that their medical coverage no longer
applied to our now fragmented family. Dad (ever the frugal one)
signed us up for a newly emerging HMO plan (which was a real novel
thing at the time), and the ?dental? aspect of it was kind of
strange. You couldn?t go to ANY independent dentists. They had no
real dentists ?in plan? in the entire tri-state area. So what they
did was they set up a ?dental clinic? where you could drive to, and
get ?first come first served, pay at the door? service. I have
later described it to people as ?the Barbizon School of
Dentistry?.
I had been X rayed on previous occasion and the ~22yr old Russian
dentist told me 2 wisdom teeth were impacted. He told us the fee
for the procedure. I came back, dad dropped me off with a check for
the fee, and when I was in the chair, the guy asked me, ?what kind
of painkillers do you want?, and I said, ?all of em!? and he said,
?you know they are extra to the procedure fee?? I didn?t have any
money on me. I had a check (already written) in my wallet. I
explained this to the guy the situation, and he shrugged, and
proceeded to rip 2 teeth out of my head with pliers. I
didn?t/couldn?t scream because the pain makes you go blind and your
ears ring and you feel electrical shocks up and down your spine.
You don?t *hear* the creaking whine of bone being ripped from other
bone so much as feel it from your hair to your toes. Its like that
nails on chalkboard effect, only you are the nail. The absolute
worst moment was the brief interlude in between the first and
second tooth. You finally had time to appreciate the throbbing
tissue pain (as opposed to the blinding weird high-frequency
sensation of bones being pulled out of you) as well as realize
there was another tooth to go. Tooth #2 split in half during
extraction (apparently this is common) and sliced a chunk of gums
open. Blood was pouring out of my mouth (I didnt notice, staring
into a light). The dentist said, 'whoops' in the most offhand
way.
Afterwards I experienced what I?ve later learned is ?shock?. I was
shivering badly and couldn?t think straight. My body temperature
dropped, and I was having strange spurts of weeping and wanting to
burst out laughing but never quite getting there. Like hiccups that
almost happen. Very weird. This is what I was like when he picked
me up.
I?ve never read that book. Why the hell did he not want
painkillers? Drug problem? Oh, come on. Novacaine?? Laughing gas?
No one?s ever gotten back on heroin because they got a taste of the
cain. He?d be more likely to relapse to try and deal with the
fucking pain over the next 5 days or so.
JG
|1.11.06 @ 6:14PM|#
thoreau-I can't speak for the validity of the story, but having
had many family members attend faulities similar to the one he
discribes I do know that at some of the more serious drug-treatment
centers they take use of substances very seriously, even to the
point that they're unwilling to give out even simple asprin to
patients. That sort of dental surgery does seem rather extreme, but
some of those faculities can be pretty hard on people.
I also know it didn't ping my mother's BS detector, and she spent
quite a bit of time as a drug councilor as part of her ministering
duties when she worked for the church. Although the fact that he
could put this to rest quite easily by releasing the medical
records, but apparently hasn't does make me somewhat
suspiscious.
|1.11.06 @ 6:19PM|#
Jesus fucking Christ, JG. That's absolutely one of the worst
things I've ever heard.
I've only had one cavity my whole life. The dentist told me he
didn't need to use any anesthetics. I was like "fuck you", but he
told me the cavity was so insignificant, he really didn't need it.
The procedure took about half a minute. No pain.
I have had many teeth pulled, however, and I got dry socket after
my wisdom teeth were pulled. The othodontist would jam a huge pair
of tweezers into the hole - that fucking hurt. He would ask me if
it hurt, and I was like "what do you think?"
But mouth pain is weird, it's not like other pain...it almost feels
good. But not really.
|1.11.06 @ 6:50PM|#
I've had drilling without anesthesia too. The last filling I
got, I was so uncomfortable with the whole anesthesia thing that I
elected to do without any. And you know what? It wasn't that bad.
I'm not going to say it was fun, because it wasn't, but you're in a
little pain for a couple minutes, then it's over. With the
novocaine, OTOH, first they jab a big-ass needle in your gum, then
they drill you, which still hurts, and then your mouth doesn't work
right the whole rest of the day. No thanks.
I've also had a few baby teeth pulled because they'd fused to the
jawbone, which is not good. I'm pretty sure I had anesthesia for
that (it was a long time ago) although it still doesn't do anything
for the mental discomfort of hearing bone go *CRACK* inside your
head.
Stephen Macklin|1.11.06 @ 6:57PM|#
Wow.
I guess if this thread hadn't wandered off into tales of dental woe
I probably wouldn't be the first one to label Frey's book "Fake but
Accurate."
|1.11.06 @ 7:03PM|#
Oh, and - lowdog: No, not really. Not even "almost".
The worst pain I've experienced wasn't dental, though. I think I
have a pinched nerve or something in my neck, because once in a
rare while, if I throw my head back, like if I'm laughing, it sets
it off. It is like fire exploding from the base of my skull at the
right hand side and spreading across the entire side of my head as
well as forward into my eye. It is literally blinding and
paralyzing, and it takes a minute or so to fade. Fortunately it
only happens once a year or so.
|1.11.06 @ 7:13PM|#
The worst pain of my entire life was inflammation of my iris.
I'd rather be punched repeatedly in the balls while suffering a
migraine headache and having dental work.
I'm willing to believe that shallow cavities can be filled with
minimal pain for people with really good pain tolerance. But
anything deep? Hell no. You need the drugs in that case.
And if the dentist knows what he's doing, the needle doesn't hurt
at all. Of course, that's a big IF.
|1.11.06 @ 8:30PM|#
yeah Stephen, i think that's funny... (the off topic decent into
Marathon Man stories) I didnt mean to contribute so much (i hadnt
read below the original query at the beginning)
i actually was going to ask H&R today if they'd comment on the
recent James Fray (and the even weirder JT LeRoy) 'fact or fiction'
scandals... I decided not to since i'd never read the book, and
didnt know exactly what the libertarian angle was. I was pleased to
see it covered here and was hoping to talk to people about the
issue, and got distracted by the opportunity to tell one of my few
real horror-stories.
Anyway, one reason i find this topic so interesting is because this
same scenario happened to one of my close friends, a person i
admire tremendously, and there was a big media flap over the whole
thing that really missed the real point.
Let's see if i can find something - here:
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/12/05/newyorker.apology.ap/
That pretty much sums the basic facts up.
The real reason behind the new yorker 'apology' was that the
company he infiltrated had filed a lawsuit against the magazine for
basically paying my friend for having committed a crime (albeit an
amusing and harmless one)
His mom had worked briefly in a different office of the firm - she
had nothing to do with him sneaking in. Im not sure it had anything
to do with why he chose the place he did.
The massage thing happened at the company, but rodney couldnt be
there at the time. He wanted to include it, so inserted himself
into that real event. This is 'deception'? in my view, the piece
isnt journalism, its an essay, and it should be taken as what it
is.
The fact that these trivial details were being used to basically
throw the 'stephen glass' thing at a *comedy writer* is evidence
enough that something was fishy. Remnick, the cock, went as far as
to do a special interview with the NY Observer to badmouth rodney
some more basically in an effort to make themselves appear
ethically above the idea of ever engaging in something so
'editorially dishonest'.
anyway, it was no damage to his career in many respects. As we said
over drinks shortly after the thing was reaching fever pitch, 'PR
is PR, dude'. He published his first book last spring, and its done
really well.
http://www.bookslut.com/nonfiction/2005_07_005948.php
And notice he did it with pretty same basic approach to the
storytelling: sneaking into an environment to 'see what it was
about', then crafting the experience into a highly imaginative and
entertaining story.
I'd be upset if a writer trying to do something like this didnt
alter *some* facts when telling a story about their life
experiences in order to make it more pungent and compelling,
heightening the translation of the experience for the reader.
You're asking people to see the world the way you saw it at a given
moment. It's not an easy job. Doing it well requires art. Maybe the
truth of an experience can be translated with good art faster then
with facts, at certain times.
Like, for instance Egger's memoir of his parents death. If the
episodes of his life were not precisely as he described, would it
matter? Memory isnt all home-movies. Its got a lot of myth and
imagination imbedded in the process. Memory eventually becomes a
story when you try and share it with people. The kernal of an
experience to a person is often crystalized how they later
reimagine it, not in exactly how it happened.
like, when my old southern grandpa told stories, he'd often mention
having caught a fish that was 'this big' (showing space between
hands).
that fish had been growing in his mind for about 50 years :) But
did the story really ever change? It just got better to listen
to.
|1.11.06 @ 8:33PM|#
Holy shit, sorry for the triple posts! I think something went
wrong with a spastic mouse click or something.
JG
|1.11.06 @ 11:43PM|#
"his version of events was true to his recollections. "
That's essentially what Robert Reich said when Jonathan Rauch
exposed all (OK, some) of the lies in his memoir of his years as
Labor Secretary.
|1.12.06 @ 1:37AM|#
I haven't read the book and have no strong feelings about Frey. But what's the big deal? Why does there need to be a sharp line between fiction & nonfiction? Hunter S. Thompson probably embellished a bit in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas", but that doesn't diminish its literary value.
Jim Treacher|1.12.06 @ 4:23AM|#
"Like, for instance Egger's memoir of his parents death. If the
episodes of his life were not precisely as he described, would it
matter?"
Yes, if they were actually still alive. Which would be on a par
with what Frey's done.
|1.12.06 @ 7:18AM|#
I'm willing to believe that shallow cavities can be filled
with minimal pain for people with really good pain tolerance. But
anything deep? Hell no. You need the drugs in that case.
True, but there are other options than novocaine. For something
like a third molar extraction, you can go to an oral surgeon rather
than a general dentist, and they can put you under instead of just
shooting you full of novocaine. Obviously there are drugs used to
knock you out, but they are different.
|1.12.06 @ 8:34AM|#
Jim Treacher =
I read the times piece about him, (here
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/12/books/12frey.html)
...but not the smoking gun expose... so i'm not clear on the actual
degree of licence he took. Is this a matter of the fish being
bigger then it really was, or as you put it, no fish at all? (i.e.
no basis for the story in the first place). Was he blowing lines
and laughing over his typewriter?(quit drugs? Me? Har har!)
Oprah seems to say he's O-Kay, so why are we all so upset? :) Why
do you all hate Oprah?
JG
|1.12.06 @ 10:38AM|#
Hunter S. Thompson probably embellished a bit in "Fear and
Loathing in Las Vegas", but that doesn't diminish its literary
value.
Embellishment is different from an outright lie. If ten years ago I
had a conversation about how to get and use certain drugs, and I'm
writing about that conversation now I'll probably have to embellish
it a bit--I can't remember the exact words used, so what I'll
actually write is a paraphrase. But that's different from me
inventing said conversation outright.
The guy didn't embellish the truth--he just made stuff up. I wish
his publishing company would sue him for fraud.
|1.12.06 @ 10:41AM|#
My wife tells me that he originally tried to get it published as fiction. Publishing houses weren't interested.
|1.12.06 @ 10:53AM|#
My wife tells me that he originally tried to get it
published as fiction. Publishing houses weren't
interested.
I'm not surprised. Fiction requires higher standards than
non-fiction, in a way. For example: Anne Frank's diary would have
been a pretty lousy piece of fiction (no plot to speak of, no
mention of many huge issues going on at the time, and so forth);
but none of this matters because it was the real diary of
a real teenaged girl who actually did have such
experiences.
|1.12.06 @ 10:53AM|#
The guy didn't embellish the truth--he just made stuff up. I
wish his publishing company would sue him for fraud.
Agreed. Although I would settle for Oprah publicly denouncing him
as a liar, which would destroy his career just as well.
|1.12.06 @ 10:54AM|#
Or to put it another way: if any author tries to write the fictional diary of a Jewish girl hiding from the Nazis, that fake diary had better be a hell of a lot better than Anne Frank's real one.
|1.12.06 @ 10:58AM|#
Or to put it another way: if any author tries to write the
fictional diary of a Jewish girl hiding from the Nazis, that fake
diary had better be a hell of a lot better than Anne Frank's real
one.
Maybe more like "Die Hard", where Anne fights back against the
Nazis maybe?
Maybe Dakota Fanning could play her in the movie.
|1.12.06 @ 10:30PM|#
Gilmore:
In the book he was in prison for more than 3 months, met lots of
memorable people, etc.
In reality he was once in a jail cell for a couple hours waiting
for someone to post bond.
So, "no fish at all", imho.
Oprah is just trying to keep from appearing more foolish . . .
|1.13.06 @ 8:18AM|#
The guy's lawyers are suing The Smoking Gun for implyihng that
he might be dishonest:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/jamesfrey/freysides/singerfrey1.html
Rick H.|1.13.06 @ 11:18AM|#
I'm not saying Frey isn't completely lying. But you can get
an effect from them. Certainly not as full blown as snorting lines
of coke, but the relationship to cocaine would be similar to the
relationship between opium and heroin - vastly different effects,
but still same family.
The "effect" is a numbing effect, that's all. Coke, heroin and
opium will get you high; that's why addicts are sensitive to them.
(You can draw your own conclusions as to why I know this.)
Application of ice would be just as likely to trigger a craving as
novocaine is.
Reading the commentary on this and other boards, it's becoming
clearer to me how this blowhard's junior-high scribbling (the
Go Ask Alice of its time) got touted as a bible of drug
addiction.
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