Because if We Can't Keep Lying About Vietnam, Then the Terrorists Will Have ... Oh Forget it

Matt Welch | November 1, 2005

Here's a story that should destroy your trust in government keeping secrets from you in the name of National Security:

The National Security Agency has kept secret since 2001 a finding by an agency historian that during the Tonkin Gulf episode, which helped precipitate the Vietnam War, N.S.A. officers deliberately distorted critical intelligence to cover up their mistakes, two people familiar with the historian's work say. [...]

[Historian Robert] Hanyok's findings were published nearly five years ago in a classified in-house journal, and starting in 2002 he and other government historians argued that it should be made public. But their effort was rebuffed by higher-level agency policymakers, who by the next year were fearful that it might prompt uncomfortable comparisons with the flawed intelligence used to justify the war in Iraq, according to an intelligence official familiar with some internal discussions of the matter. [...]

The [NSA] spokesman, Don Weber, said the release had been "delayed in an effort to be consistent with our preferred practice of providing the public a more contextual perspective."

Whole thing here; thanks to Rob McMillin for the pointer.

Comments

|11.1.05 @ 2:30PM|#

Why does the official NSA historian hate America?

|11.1.05 @ 2:32PM|#

Why does America hate America?

(OK, the joke is played out as of right there, unless you think you can top reflexitivity.)

|11.1.05 @ 2:35PM|#

The [NSA] spokesman, Don Weber, said the release had been "delayed in an effort to be consistent with our preferred practice of providing the public a more contextual perspective."

wow. fuck you, mr. weber. fuck you.

|11.1.05 @ 2:37PM|#

The posters here are hereby warned about offering any snarky comments.

Know that our operatives have mastered the ultimate fitness program and are adept at lightning ju jitsu.

|11.1.05 @ 2:40PM|#

Fuck you, zach.

The Wine Commonsewer|11.1.05 @ 2:40PM|#

I think that this amply illustrates an ongoing theme. That is: all intelligence is suspect.

Yet another argument for abolishing these agencies altogether. They can't get it right (ever) anyway so what, exactly, is the point?

CodeMonkeySteve|11.1.05 @ 2:52PM|#

"You know I could have been in the NSA, but they found out my parents were married."

|11.1.05 @ 2:56PM|#

There is nothing more entertaining than watching a conservative try to defend Vietnam.

"WE DIDN'T LOOSE!!! If &$#@ing LBJ and the peacenik diplomats would have let us take the kids gloves off, we would have beaten those commie bastards!"

|11.1.05 @ 3:07PM|#

I'm having a ball thinking of all the shit I could get away with if I was given the opportunity to justify it with contextual perspective.

|11.1.05 @ 3:15PM|#

And is anyone really surprised by these revelations? If so, please send me your name and address. I need to separate you from some of your money.

|11.1.05 @ 3:34PM|#

Akira,

Good answer...Good answer...I'll be watching you.

|11.1.05 @ 3:38PM|#

Johnson lied, people died?

But wait, that was a DEMOCRAT, so just move along, nothing to see here.

|11.1.05 @ 3:46PM|#

Good answer...Good answer...I'll be watching you.

My father is one of these armchair generals who thinks we could have won if we had "treated it like a real war" and if it weren't for those damn hippies protesting the war. He skipped out of 'Nam via the college deferment route. He rationalizes it by playing the "I went through ROTC" card but it sounds pretty hollow to me.

|11.1.05 @ 3:52PM|#

"OK, the joke is played out as of right there"

As long as there are people seriously claiming that any criticism, no matter how mild or valid, of the US government equates to hating the institution of "America", that joke will always have currency.

|11.1.05 @ 4:01PM|#

God bless the joke.

M1EK|11.1.05 @ 4:13PM|#

"Johnson lied, people died?

But wait, that was a DEMOCRAT, so just move along, nothing to see here."

You see a lot of people lionizing LBJ? Personally, I hope he's smoking a bit fat turd in hell, holding a seat open for W next to him.

|11.1.05 @ 5:00PM|#

You see a lot of people lionizing LBJ?

Actually LBJ still has his share of admirers, but even they recognize that he was a vulgar lout.

Also I find party identifications don't stand up for more than about five years at a stretch. The way loyalties change and constituencies migrate only mythology can possibly keep one loyal to one of the big two.

|11.1.05 @ 5:14PM|#

In related news, John Yoo is using the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution as a justification for giving the President unlimited power to initiate wars because the Resolution shows that Congressional approval doesn't guarantee "good wars". No, really, he said that: http://www.spacewar.com/news/iraq-05zzzzzg.html

|11.1.05 @ 5:41PM|#

As long as there are people seriously claiming that any criticism, no matter how mild or valid, of the US government equates to hating the institution of "America", that joke will always have currency.

Not really.

|11.1.05 @ 6:06PM|#

the release had been "delayed in an effort to be consistent with our preferred practice of providing the public a more contextual perspective."
Plainly my life needs a more contextual perspective.

|11.1.05 @ 8:27PM|#

Akira, N. Vietnamese General Giap disagrees with you. Well I shouldn't say that, he might find conservatives' views entertaining...

http://www.veteranstoday.com/article876.html

In a interview in 1985 (ten years after the war had ended), the leader of the North Vietnamese Army (NVA), General Giap, said there were two times he was ready to surrender to the United States. In February, 1968 the NVA, along with the Viet Cong, launched the TET Offensive. Seventy- five percent of the NVA was either killed or wounded. It was a resounding U.S. victory. General Giap realized he could not win the war and was prepared to surrender...


However, he read U.S. newspaper reports and editorials which claimed TET was a communist victory rather than an American one. General Giap read in these same U.S. newspapers about our campus protests and anti-war activities. He came to realize that the American military did not have the support of the citizens. He changed his strategy from aggression to attrition. He believed he did not have to defeat America to win. He saw that America would defeat itself. He simply needed to hang on. Consequently, General Giap did not surrender. He simply hung on.

|11.1.05 @ 8:37PM|#

Right you are, b.b. Slacker:

George Washington also found out after one of his many defeats that all the Continental Army had to do was survive for his "revolution" to succeed.

|11.1.05 @ 8:39PM|#

sorry, those last two paragraphs are a quote from the link, not my writing. And please don't take my link to a rebuttal of liberal notions as an indication of my support for armed intervention everywhere, anywhere, ie. don't shoot the messenger...

|11.1.05 @ 9:41PM|#

"The [NSA] spokesman, Don Weber, said the release had been "delayed in an effort to be consistent with our preferred practice of providing the public a more contextual perspective.""

Before this, was anyone aware the NSA had a "preferred practice"?

Is it the missionary position?

And when the Senate gets out of its secret session, I'm sure it will take about 5 minutes before some of the loose lips will give "the public a more contextual perspective"... in spades!

In the meantime, read AntiWar.com for a cornucopia of contextual perspective.

|11.2.05 @ 9:47AM|#

"Johnson lied, people died?

But wait, that was a DEMOCRAT, so just move along, nothing to see here."

I'm not sure if you know this, Ken, but "move along, nothing to see here" is not actually how the public responded to Johnson's war, and his lies.

Maybe you've seen something about this on television.

|11.2.05 @ 3:41PM|#

Actually, I was aware that the "public" was the best weapon that the North Vietnamese had.

I'm sure that terrorists in Iraq are waiting to see if America will defeat itself.

Personally, I now wish that Bush 41 had just left Saddam in Kuwait. He would have soon gobbled up Saudi Arabia and he'd be pumping them both dry to buy stuff. Hopefully just palaces, but probably weapons to make another run at Iran. Hard cheese for the people of the Middle East but no doubt my gas would cost less (and there may not have been any 9-11).

|11.2.05 @ 4:59PM|#

"Actually, I was aware that the "public" was the best weapon that the North Vietnamese had."

Why does the American public hate America?

|11.2.05 @ 5:50PM|#

"Why does the American public hate America?"

They've been lied to.

"So much for the lies that led to war. What we're left with is the lies that led to the antiwar movement. Good thing for Wilson and his pals that deceiving the press and the public isn't a crime."

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-boot2nov02,1,5360204.column?coll=la-news-columns&ctrack=1&cset=true

America is not the only country with a problem - and it's not a new problem.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;