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You are Cordially Invited to a Party in Honor of Satan and Hell
Via America's Newspaper, AP exposes the great European backlash against the "American habit" of Halloween (a holiday, last I checked, with European roots). And by "backlash," they mean menacing remarks by a crazy Swiss mayor, an Italian theologian, and "an Austrian who backs the small but strident boycott movement" :
In Sweden, even as Halloween's popularity has increased, so have views of the holiday as an "unnecessary, bad American custom," said Bodil Nildin-Wall, an expert at the Language and Folklore Institute in Uppsala.
Italy's Papaboys, a group of pope devotees who include some of the young Catholics who cheer wildly at Vatican events, have urged Christians not to take part in what they consider "a party in honor of Satan and hell," and plan to stage prayer vigils nationwide that night.
Papal groupies notwithstanding, Americans themselves are perfectly capable of recognizing that Halloween is a vast conspiracy of chocolate industry lobbyists, sexual predators, and whatever you call the guys who stick needles in candy corn.
Whole thing here. Tim Cavanaugh notes that "Satan has a way of winning every holiday season" here.
|10.26.05 @ 3:55PM|#
Italy's Papaboys, a group of pope devotees who include some
of the young Catholics who cheer wildly at Vatican events, have
urged Christians not to take part in what they consider "a party in
honor of Satan and hell," and plan to stage prayer vigils
nationwide that night.
Yikes, just when we thought Europe was free of religious whackos.
(Of course, most of the Euro anti-Halloween sentiment comes from
"Ze-Filthee-Capitalist-American-Pig-Dogs" school of thought.) This
guy sounds nearly as bad as the American evangelists who also
proclaim Halloween to be a "satanic holiday."
|10.26.05 @ 3:59PM|#
A crazy Swiss mayor, an Italian theologian, and "an Austrian who backs the small but strident boycott movement" were having a drink at the bar one day when...
Timothy|10.26.05 @ 4:02PM|#
I think children provide ample reason for putting needles in candy corn. And, if not kids themselves, then certainly parents who get pissed when you say, "Get off my porch, this candy is mine. Go buy your own, junior."
|10.26.05 @ 4:08PM|#
Kerry Howley,
...(a holiday, last I checked, with European roots).
Well, that's a bit like claiming that modern day Christmas has
roots in the medeival celebration of Christmas. Well, true enough,
but they are remarkably different creatures.
The U.S. version was popular in France for a couple of years, but
has since 2000 or so lost popularity (plus, the way the French
version of the American version didn't even remotely resemble what
trick or treating looks like in the U.S. - French children after
all tended to go trick or treating as if they were waves of
protestors or strikers after all).
|10.26.05 @ 4:16PM|#
On a tangentially-related note, there's something that's really
bothering me: my oh-so gregarious neighbors actually turn on their
goddamn sprinklers on Halloween to prevent trick-or-treaters.
Since they don't want to "treat" I am trying to think of a good
"trick." I'm probably going to rob them and sell their shit on
Craigslist for candy. Anyone else in?
|10.26.05 @ 4:30PM|#
Okay, I'm in an area of which I know next to nothing, but isn't
Halloween actually "All Hallows' Eve", which is the day before "All
Hallows Day", aka "All Saints Day"? That sounds suspiciously
Christian and non-Satanic, whatever pagan influences the day may
have.
Of course, I'm sure the real objection to Halloween is the American
version of it. Cuz we suck and everything. Maybe they should all
dress up as Americans and scare each other. Egad.
|10.26.05 @ 4:32PM|#
Bama-While you're doing it you could also plant meth in their house and then call the cops. That way when the cops arrive it'll just look like they sold all their junk to buy more speed.
|10.26.05 @ 4:33PM|#
a party in honor of Satan and hell
At this party, will there be a guy who keeps going around saying,
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and
taste"?
|10.26.05 @ 4:37PM|#
Libertate-Sorta. Our Halloween is actually portions of three or
four methods of celebrating of the Autumnal Equinox crammed into
one night. The date itself (along with All-Saints Day) was chosen
for the same reason Christmas was moved to the 25th of December;
the need to replace pagan holidays with acceptable Christian
substitutes.
We should all feel fortunate that they did, too; early Christianity
was painfully unfun to live with. The influx of Pagan ideas made
things more interesting.
|10.26.05 @ 4:42PM|#
I think children provide ample reason for putting needles in
candy corn. And, if not kids themselves, then certainly parents who
get pissed when you say, "Get off my porch, this candy is mine. Go
buy your own, junior."
This is just a suggestion, but: Maybe if you stop sitting on your
porch with your porch light one holding a big bowl of candy on
Halloween night, kids will stop coming to your door asking for
candy. Again, just a suggestion.
Waaait a sec...you're one of those needle guys, aren't
you!
|10.26.05 @ 4:46PM|#
You are Cordially Invited to a Party in Honor of Satan and
Hell
By the way, someone should tell somebody that I already had the DC
Reasonoid gathering a few weeks ago and that they should change the
headline for this thread.
|10.26.05 @ 4:50PM|#
Boy, if I was twelve again, and it was Halloween, and I lived in a certain Swiss town with a certain mayor and I had a dozen eggs or so, there' no tellin' what I'd do!
|10.26.05 @ 5:03PM|#
These knee-jerk reacting, Christian psudo-religious
reactionaries might smell better than their Muslim counter-parts
but they share the same fundemental love of prohitting "sinful"
behaviour by condemnations, vilification and whenever they can get
a way with it, a hanging here and there...
Oh, and they're doing all this for "your" soul's salvation.
I feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
|10.26.05 @ 5:05PM|#
I wonder what these "Backlash" types think of "Faschings", that pre-lent holiday where drunks wearing giant phalluses march in parades.
|10.26.05 @ 5:12PM|#
Sorry kids, no party this year. I forgot to get a costume--been too busy selling meth to schoolchildren.
Jeff P.|10.26.05 @ 5:20PM|#
Open question: Who is your favorite Lucifer? Mine's a toss up between Robert DeNiro in Angel Heart and Viggo Mortensen in The Prophecy, although Roddy McDowell's turn as the first openly gay Satan on Fantasy Island still gets a chuckle from me.
|10.26.05 @ 5:23PM|#
Gotta be DeNiro in Angel Heart. That scene when he peels the egg is pretty creepy.
|10.26.05 @ 5:24PM|#
At this party, will there be a guy who keeps going around
saying, "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth
and taste"?
Totally OT but it's Stevo's fault, so don't get upset with me, just
"have some courtesy, ...some sympathy and some taste." But more and
more I think the Stones were onto something with "Just as
every cop is a criminal..."
|10.26.05 @ 5:27PM|#
Let 'em cry, nothings going to happen until the Islamists decide it's a problem, then the shit'll be banned faster than you can say 'Miss Piggy'.
|10.26.05 @ 5:31PM|#
And on a holiday related note, if you want a cheap educational non-teethrotting handout that'll drive all the parents crazy, try books of matches. You can do loosies too, but make sure to ask if their 18 first or you'll get locked up.
fyodor|10.26.05 @ 5:33PM|#
Who is your favorite Lucifer?
How about the one who gave certain pleasures (yet much grief) to
Saddam Hussein in the South Park movie?
Or the one who spoke through Linda Blair: "YOUR MOTHER SUCKS COCKS
IN HELL!"
|10.26.05 @ 5:33PM|#
Al Pacino wasn't a bad satan I guess; and the guy who played Satan in Constantine was pretty creepy too.
|10.26.05 @ 5:46PM|#
Geez, we used to have a Halloween Haunted House at my church
when I was a kid, and yes, it was really a haunted house, not a
thing where your aborted fetus comes back to condemn you to Hell. I
had to peel freaking grapes for the "bowl of eyeballs".
The worst thing about Halloween these days is how many adults are
so pathetically into it. Remember the "30/30" rule - if you are
over 30 and it takes you more than 30 minutes to create a costume,
you may need to seriously re-evaluate your life.
|10.26.05 @ 5:47PM|#
Hakluyt-You beat me to it; I was going to suggest Pacino. "He's a sadist, Marty!"
|10.26.05 @ 5:54PM|#
The worst thing about Halloween these days is how many
adults are so pathetically into it. Remember the "30/30" rule - if
you are over 30 and it takes you more than 30 minutes to create a
costume, you may need to seriously re-evaluate your
life.
Don,
You think it's bad now? Just wait a few years until my peers hit
their 30's. Ugh. There's going to be tens of millions of real-life
Peter Pans and, uh, (whatever the female equivalent of an adult who
won't grow up is).
Thanks for expressing my take on dressing up, though. I mean,
unless you're going to some ritzy gala, or unless you're an art
student, who cares? Your costume is otherwise just going to be
covered in keg beer and god-knows-what by the end of the night.
|10.26.05 @ 5:56PM|#
Don Mynack,
I thought that's why we had costume shops? You go in, shop for
15-30 minutes, and rent whatever you want. Either that or you throw
a sheet over your head. :)
|10.26.05 @ 6:03PM|#
If you ask me, Halloween is wasted on the kids. Drinking $2
Black 'n' Oranges down at the local bar while watching a naughty
school girl apple bobbing contest is a hell of a lot better than
"oohhh look, another pokemon costume, you get two pieces."
Little bastards don't even have the stones to play tricks anymore,
why should i give 'em candy?
fyodor|10.26.05 @ 6:05PM|#
if you are over 30 and it takes you more than 30 minutes to
create a costume, you may need to seriously re-evaluate your
life.
I'm guessing you probably wouldn't much like it at Burning Man!!
:-)
|10.26.05 @ 6:09PM|#
Don,
These things tend to wither away of their own inertia. I'm in my
late 30s, and while my wife and I would love to spend a day
creating some really weird costume (we're both funny that way), the
fact is that neither we nor our friends have had a Halloween party
for about four years now, and the last couple of 'em before we
stopped were kind of a bummer, anyway, since some of the best
partyers had managed to reproduce and lost their mojo.
My wife and I, on the other hand are such pathetic costume-ites,
though, that our dream life would be as re-enacters in Colonial
Williamsburg.
|10.26.05 @ 6:10PM|#
fyodor,
I've personally never been to Burning Man, so I can't say I
wouldn't go at least once just to experience it. Still, from the
outside, to me it unappealingly looks like a giant artistic circle
jerk.
|10.26.05 @ 6:23PM|#
" 'Excuse me, please,' said the stranger with a foreign accent,
although
in correct Russian, ' for permitting myself, without an
introduction . . .
but the subject of your learned conversation was so interesting
that. . .' "
|10.26.05 @ 6:36PM|#
Halloween may have morphed into an over-commercialized hunk of American clap-trap, but hey, at least it's not Sweetest Day.
|10.26.05 @ 6:36PM|#
Good points on the adult halloweenies. I am not a big fan of
Halloween (certainly not for religious reasons) and dressing up so
I usually try to get out any party-host applied peer pressure to
dress up by telling them I'm coming as the most offensive or
inappropriate costume I can imagine. I figure if I have to suffer
so should they. But now it's just more of a game to identify
costume ideas that are in particularly bad taste. And when it comes
to poor taste, what better place to seek ideas than H&R.
So I'm curious, what would you all think is a particularly over the
line costume? Past examples might be, say, going as OBL (or worse,
Mohammed Atta complete with a box cutter) back in 2001, showing up
as Tim McVeigh in a Hertz rental van 10 years ago, or perhaps going
as... what was he called on here... oh yes, "Nearly Headless Nick"
a couple years ago.
But what about this year? Any ideas for topical costumes that are
guaranteed to offend most everyone at a party? Or, just for fun,
ideas for costumes from years past that would have been singularly
despicable?
|10.26.05 @ 6:39PM|#
Who is your favorite Lucifer?
That would be the great Vincent Price, chewing up the scenery as
Mr. Scratch in the otherwise godawful The Story Of
Mankind.
|10.26.05 @ 7:16PM|#
Oh, c'mon, it's got to be Max von Sydow in "Needful Things". But
then, I've always imagined the Devil as being a bit dapper.
"It's alright...these things happen."
drf|10.26.05 @ 7:17PM|#
"giant artistic circle jerk."
wow. sounds kinda like the "cultural and gender studies" department
at a small new england liberal arts school...
there was a halloween kick in denmark a few years ago, too. then
they wanted to have indian summer, hurricanes (no kidding), and a
gangsta rap group hit #3 on the charts. and rapping in danish
sounds really dumb.
|10.26.05 @ 7:23PM|#
Schaivo.
That's just sick...
So, with or without feeding tube?
Damn JustinSane, you're on a roll today I see. Not sure which made
me laugh more: handing out matches and loosies for Halloween, the
naughty school-girl apple bobbing contest, or your costume
suggestion showing a tastelessness that will be hard to match.
|10.26.05 @ 7:26PM|#
Little bastards don't even have the stones to play tricks
anymore, why should i give 'em candy?
What, it's bad to not have to pay protection-sugar to
budding thugs? :)
|10.26.05 @ 7:34PM|#
Definitely feeding tube, aka drinking straw. She had a certain androgeny toward the end that would make it good for boys and girls alike. If you get real tanked, you can probably even act the part. Cerebral cortex has more exposure to alcohol in the cerebral spinal fluid, so it starts shutting down first (inhibitions, motor cortex) while leaving brainstem activity still active (tracking, breathing). Just don't push it too hard with the alcohol, or you may go the way of the Schaivo.
Tim Cavanaugh|10.26.05 @ 7:35PM|#
In my best Maurice Evans voice: "Hail Satan!"
You mean your Sidney Blackmer or Ralph Bellamy voice. Evans played
"Hutch," Rosemary's trusted friend who gets murdered by the
coven-and in the same year that he played Dr. Zaius, making him for
my money film's most compelling figure of wisdom and
trustworthiness.
|10.26.05 @ 7:39PM|#
At my church the youth group has an All Saints' Eve party, but costumes are restricted to saints. Of course, those willing to do a bit of research on martyrdoms can and do come up with as gory a costume as any (arrow-filled Sebastians, flayed Bartholemews, burnt Joan of Arcs, breastless Agathas, and the ever-popular leprous Damians)
|10.26.05 @ 7:47PM|#
Eric,
It's not bad at all to not have to pay out in sweets. But I'm only
free to do that now that I'm no longer cowed by TP, eggs and
burning dog poo. I'm sure as hell not paying up now that I only
have to dirty looks when I show up at PTA meetings. I was getting
those for free anyway, since I don't have any kids.
|10.26.05 @ 7:59PM|#
crimethink,
Too bad you can't show up as someone yout Church has murdered over
the years.
|10.26.05 @ 8:47PM|#
Hakluyt,
Joan of Arc was burnt as a witch.
I just made inquiries and found out that a gory martyr costume
would be considered "unacceptable", as would a pre-conversion Mary
Magdalene. The separation of church and fun is nearing
completion...
|10.26.05 @ 9:07PM|#
crimethink,
Hypatia of Alexanderia was murdered (well, ripped to pieces is more
like it) by a Christian mob in a church - that is, they attacked
her in her coach, drug her to the church through the streets, and
then ripped her to pieces.
As to Joan, well, that was a case of you Christians killing each
other.
I'd show up as Michael Servetus - Catholic and Calvinist wanted his
head. Something to be proud of in that. :)
|10.26.05 @ 9:38PM|#
Hakluyt,
I'm sure there are at least a couple of cases of atheists killing
Catholics I could bring up, as well. Which proves little except
that there are plenty of people willing to use ideology to justify
their murderous deeds.
|10.26.05 @ 9:42PM|#
Or, as Gumby once said, if something is worth living for, there are some who will consider it worth killing for.
|10.26.05 @ 11:21PM|#
Good offensive costumes would be
A bloated Katrina corpse floating in filth (maybe even clinging to
piece of roof or a realistic baby doll) with little Nat. Guard and
news helicopters hovering around your head on wires
or
A New Orleans police officer...show up in a Caddy with dealer
plates and with gun drawn, take anything vaulable and
skedaddle.
raymond|10.27.05 @ 1:21AM|#
So the mayor of Rankweil, a town near the border with Switzerland...
...menacing remarks by a crazy Swiss mayor...
So. Does that make Paul Martin the crazy "American Prime
Minister"?
Hellbound Alleee|10.27.05 @ 1:40AM|#
Halloween, as Americans began celebrating it in the 1930's, is
actually closer to European traditions of Wassailing. Before the
30's, Halloween was a time for kids to run around, knock on doors,
play pranks and run away. Halloween was dealt with much like
Americans (and the English) dealt with the rowdy and similar
customs on Christmas. It became wholesome.
But to deny Halloween customs have roots in Europe is to deny
Christmas had its roots in Saturnalia. Italians should be
ashamed.
|10.27.05 @ 4:32AM|#
There's a giant turd costume that's now available.
'Mr.
Floatie' withdraws from mayor race
(Photo at www.poopvictoria.ca )
|10.27.05 @ 7:45AM|#
I'm sure there are at least a couple of cases of atheists
killing Catholics I could bring up, as well.
By all means, please do.
|10.27.05 @ 9:38AM|#
Hey, I'm wondering if we could get the number of posts up to 666
in honor of this blessed holiday.
t - shake some nests, buddy :)
|10.27.05 @ 10:22AM|#
I was thinking of dressing up as the Laffer curve this year, but
I'm afraid that I'll spend the entire evening explaining what it
is.
Sigh. Gandalf again, I guess.
|10.27.05 @ 10:57AM|#
crimethink,
I'm sure there are at least a couple of cases of atheists
killing Catholics I could bring up, as well.
Maybe some atheistic communists - but that is an entirely different
creature from just a plain old atheist.
|10.27.05 @ 10:58AM|#
Hakluyt,
Making the 69th post on a thread about Satan makes the baby Jesus
cry.
dhex|10.27.05 @ 11:05AM|#
i had been set to be dragged along to a rather loathesome holloween party on saturday, but it thankfully fell through. they insisted everyone dress up in a costume, so i was going to go as a dyslexic skinhead. easy costume - boots, rolled jeans, suspenders, and a white t-shirt with "ETIHW REWOP!" written across the front.
|10.27.05 @ 1:24PM|#
"I'm sure there are at least a couple of cases of atheists
killing Catholics I could bring up, as well."
"Maybe some atheistic communists - but that is an entirely
different creature from just a plain old atheist."
Oh, nice way to move the goalposts, dude.
Might as well exclude murderous Inquisitors, heretic-haters and
inflamed mobs from the discussion too, since they're an entirely
different creature from just a plain old Christian.
|10.27.05 @ 1:58PM|#
Me? Being a certified geek I love Halloween parties, especial if
I'm throwing them!
Depending on weather, we usually grill something outside or make up
a crock-pot of chili, taco meat, or Sloppy Joes along with whatever
pot-luck stuff (e.g. chips, dips, salads, homemade pies, etc) that
my buddies bring over. Before dinner we usually pass the time
playing horror related games like Zombie!, Arkham Horror, or
Illuminati. After we feast, it's either to the TV for a monster
movie marathon or back to the gaming tables for a night-long
session of Call Of Cthulhu! Last year it was a trio of Hammer
Studios horror films, and this year we're planing a watch the
orignal Kolchak: The Night Stalker.
Fun, fun, fun! :)
|10.27.05 @ 2:48PM|#
Akira:
Call of Cthulu is a sadistic GM's wet dream.. Spending more then 10
minutes on a player character concept is pretty much a waste of
time >:(
|10.27.05 @ 2:53PM|#
Akira,
Here are more things you may want to consider to put on your list
of "things not to talk about on the first date":
-horror related games like Zombie!, Arkham Horror, or
Illuminati
-night-long session (or any session, for that matter)
of Call Of Cthulhu
-Kolchak: The Night Stalker
|10.27.05 @ 3:24PM|#
The worst thing about Halloween these days is how many
adults are so pathetically into it.
Hey! I resemble that remark!
It's the dress-up that I love. I mean, sure, I'd prefer to go to a
real medieval masquerade ball, but we ain't got those here in these
united states, right?
I ALWAYS throw a Halloween party. Anyone going to be in Chicago
this Sat.? Stop by! I'm Morticia Addams this year.
|10.27.05 @ 4:28PM|#
Hey, I also admit I kinda like the adult costume thing. One
year, I got so involved in pulling together a costume (in
conjunction with my tendency to put things off until the last
minute) that I actually missed the party I was supposed to go
to.
Also, it gives me an excuse for keeping that pirate-type costume in
my bedroom closet. (A leftover from when a chick-friend invited me
up to the Minnesota Renaissance Festival last year, actually. It
also ended up being my Halloween costume twice.)
BTW: Akira, when is your dinner date? Are you going to keep us
informed, or should we just pester you?
|10.27.05 @ 4:33PM|#
Also, it gives me an excuse for keeping that pirate-type
costume in my bedroom closet.
Oh my.
|10.27.05 @ 4:53PM|#
Smacky:
"things not to talk about on the first date":
Awwwww Shucks! I was going to invite her to join my Serenity RPG
campaign. :(
Stevo:
Nothing has been set up yet given our crazy schedules. I'll touch
bases with her this weekend when I make my weekly visit to Office
Depot.
|10.27.05 @ 5:13PM|#
Awwwww Shucks! I was going to invite her to join my Serenity
RPG campaign. :(
Save that for the third or fourth date, bub.
|10.27.05 @ 5:16PM|#
By the way, I hope I didn't offend any of the adult Halloweeners here with my disparaging remarks about dressing up. In truth, there is nothing wrong with it. That was just my inner crotchety old woman lashing out. She does that sometimes, for attention. *sigh* Time to go take my medicine...
|10.27.05 @ 7:03PM|#
"Maybe some atheistic communists - but that is an entirely
different creature from just a plain old atheist."
Oh, nice way to move the goalposts, dude.
No, I think that's a fair distinction. If someone was going on
about how Christians were historically into the Angel Moroni and
polygamy, it's be fair to point out that Mormons aren't exactly
your plain old Christians.
|10.27.05 @ 7:34PM|#
Stevo,
Obviously, a "plain old" atheist is one who doesn't kill people.
Hakluyt's point follows straight away. (. )_ /
(. )
|10.27.05 @ 10:30PM|#
On atheists killing Christians vs. Christians killing others:
Well, what's so special about Communist atheists who kill
believers? The fact that they were intent on making their nonbelief
into State policy?
Then let's be evenhanded,recognizes that it was really the Statism
that was the overriding deadly component, and exclude both
Christians and atheists who want to make their belief/nonbelief
into State policy. What's left?
|10.27.05 @ 10:37PM|#
"Also, it gives me an excuse for keeping that pirate-type
costume in my bedroom closet."
Oh my.
smacky, it's there for perfectly innocent reasons, as I've already
explained!
(But may it not always be so.)
By the way, I hope I didn't offend any of the adult
Halloweeners here with my disparaging remarks about dressing
up.
No offense taken here.
Although, if 'twere an offense, a soakin'-down with a bucket o'
seawater and 30 smacks with a fresh sea-bass would be the usual
prescribed penalty, 'ccordin' to the Laws o' the Sea. Arrr.
drf|10.28.05 @ 2:46PM|#
Stevo:
check out the Happy Tree Friend, Russell...
http://happytreefriends.atomfilms.com/
about_the_show/characters.html
OR:
YOU! are not a pirate.
|11.1.05 @ 8:02PM|#
My parents, who were kids in the Depression years in Brooklyn
and Queens, have told me that Thanksgiving morning used to be the
day for dressing up and going door-to-door for treats, and to play
pranks. That practice faded, and eventually migrated to All Hallows
Eve. See:
http://www.greenpt.com/anytngftkg.htm
Of course, the Xters squatted their All Saints Day on top of the
pre-Christian New Year, Samhain, so maybe they oughta shutteth up
about American cultural imperialism. Our current custom of clothing
ourselves as things of the Otherworld has a certain resonance with
the old ways, even if I and others don't believe in the underlying
mythos any longer.
Kevin
|11.1.05 @ 8:07PM|#
Salon also has this:
http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2002/10/28/halloween/print.html
but you have to watch one of their ads or subscribe.
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