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Litigation Ho
Plaid-throated Minnesota bore, Homegrown Democrat and censorship casualty Garrison Keillor is threatening to sue a blogger for selling a T-shirt that says "A Prairie Ho Companion." (Link via Sploid.)
Dave W.|9.13.05 @ 2:10PM|#
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=ai0k0g.4.6
Use it or lose it!
|9.13.05 @ 2:10PM|#
I'm in favor of his doing anything at all that will keep him from singing in public.
|9.13.05 @ 2:21PM|#
I don't get it. At what point is it determined that a trademark is "dead"? Is there an across-the-board, definite deadline in which it must be used, or is it open to interpretation as to when a trademark is considered "dead"?
The Wine Commonsewer|9.13.05 @ 2:37PM|#
Someone near and dear to my heart received a similar letter about a similar problem. She basically, in a nice way, said pound salt and put a disclaimer on her blog. That was the end of it. Not saying that would work here, but it might.
|9.13.05 @ 2:37PM|#
It's parody, ain't it? Isn't that one of the few classes of protected speech we have left?
|9.13.05 @ 2:47PM|#
It's just a "Boo! Scary lawyer!" letter. It's not an actual reflection of the current state of the law.
|9.13.05 @ 2:55PM|#
It's just a "Boo! Scary lawyer!" letter.
I got one of those once.
From a defecting roomate who demanded her share of the rental
immediately from me and the other roomates; saw right through it,
and I don't think I've ever made a person cry the way she was
crying when I was finally through with tearing her a new
assho**.
Dave W.|9.13.05 @ 2:58PM|#
Whoops, my link was supposed to go to the recent "ReasonOnline"
trademark registration (or application for registration). The US
Trademark pages don't work that way.
Anyway, the point is that even libertarians buy into trademark law
to some extent. Of course, this Keilor-Ho thing sounds more like
the tarnishment sub-species of anti-dilution law than a
classic-variety trademark infringement. Maybe anti-dilution law is
an unwarranted expansion (still pretty recent), but still . . .
|9.13.05 @ 3:02PM|#
I don't get it. At what point is it determined that a
trademark is "dead"?
IIRC, it's something like the life of the author plus
seventy-some-odd years.
This is likely to be extended in the future, not coincidentally, at
about the time the trademarks on Disney characters come due for
expiration.
Dave W.|9.13.05 @ 3:10PM|#
I don't get it. At what point is it determined that a
trademark is "dead"?
IIRC, it's something like the life of the author plus
seventy-some-odd years.
Trademarks rights can last forever -- or at least as long as a
company makes a sufficient degree and kind of use of the
trademark.
Trademark registrations are more definitive and may be "live" or
"dead," but the clarity here is potentially misleading because a
company can have trademark rights without a registration.
Anyway, the "limited times" thing required Constitutionally for US
patents and US copyrights does not apply at all to trademarks.
After Eldred v. Ashcroft, it doesn't even seem to apply to
copyrights.
However, this week the Fed. Cir. shot down some more Lemelson (RIP)
patents based on delay in prosecution. So there is still a time
limit for patents, at least.
|9.13.05 @ 4:47PM|#
This is as good a time as any to ask this. Could someone please
explain the libertarian line on copyright laws. The only thing that
I know is that I observe Reason types getting in a twist every time
the topic comes up.
Thanks ... talk amongst yourselves.
|9.13.05 @ 5:23PM|#
Dave, thanks for the clarification. For some reason, even though
I can mentally grasp the difference between trademark, copyright,
and patent, I still seem to get them all confused.
Blah.
|9.13.05 @ 5:37PM|#
Somethingawful.com has a modest archive of these "menacing
lawyer" letters. They claim to have successfully BS'ed and waited
their way out of every single one.
Showing my coastal American tastes, Keilor, like his conservative
doppleganger of sorts, Lileks, is one those guys whose act I find
incomprehensible.
|9.13.05 @ 5:54PM|#
Keillor is such a silly tight-a**, I say go after 'em all. And
according to the website, he didn't even invent it. PHC was already
being broadcast before he joined the show. So how does he manage to
obtain these trademarks?
(The following is from the 'A Prairie Home Companion'
website.)
Legal Stuff
Garrison Keillor sure owns a lot of words!
Registered Trademarks and Service Marks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following are registered trademarks and service marks of
Garrison Keillor: A PRAIRIE HOME COMPANION�; BE WELL. DO GOOD WORK
AND KEEP IN TOUCH�; CAF� BOEUF�; CATCHUP ADVISORY BOARD�; COMEDY
COLLEGE�; GUY NOIR�; GUY'S SHOES�; LAKE WOBEGON�; LAKE WOBEGON
MINNESOTA GATEWAY TO CENTRAL MINNESOTA�; LAKE WOBEGON WHIPPETS�;
NEWS FROM LAKE WOBEGON�; PHC�; POWDERMILK BISCUITS�; THE COFFEE
CLUB ORCHESTRA�; THE WRITER'S ALMANAC�; WHERE THE WOMEN ARE STRONG,
THE MEN ARE GOOD LOOKING, AND ALL OF THE CHILDREN ARE ABOVE
AVERAGE�.
The following are trademarks and service marks of Garrison Keillor:
AMERICAN DUCT TAPE COUNCIL TM; AMERICAN RADIO COMPANY TM; AMERICAN
RADIO COMPANY OF THE AIR TM; BEBOP-A-REEBOP RHUBARB PIE TM;
BERTHA'S KITTY BOUTIQUE TM; CHATTERBOX CAFE TM; FEARMONGER'S SHOPPE
TM; FISHER'S COFFEE TM; GARRISON KEILLOR'S AMERICAN RADIO COMPANY
TM; IT'S BEEN A QUIET WEEK IN LAKE WOBEGON TM; LAKE WOBEGON JACK
SUMUS QUID SUMUS TM; L'UNIVERSITE DE LAC WOBEGON TM; OUR LADY OF
PERPETUAL RESPONSIBILITY TM; PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION OF ENGLISH
MAJORS TM; SIDETRACK TAP TM; WHIPPETS TM.
The Wine Commonsewer|9.13.05 @ 5:57PM|#
Dave, SOME libertarians actually buy into trademark and
copyright law. I'm in the minority around here but dude if you own
it you own it.
That is not to say that trademark and copyright law isn't a HUGE
stinking mess of inconsistency and ludicrosity (just made that word
up but I bet you know what I mean).
If you don't own the property, you are the property
regards, TWC
|9.13.05 @ 6:01PM|#
Ooooooooh. Smacky in a catfight. GrrrrOOowl!
You know what would be cool? smacky in a catfight while wearing a
catsuit.
I'm feline it.
|9.13.05 @ 6:01PM|#
I say go after them all. Keillor is such a silly tight-a**. And
according to the PHC website, the show was already in existence
before he joined it, so how did he manage to acquire these
trademarks?
The following is from the PHC website.
Legal Stuff
Garrison Keillor sure owns a lot of words!
Registered Trademarks and Service Marks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following are registered trademarks and service marks of
Garrison Keillor: A PRAIRIE HOME COMPANION�; BE WELL. DO GOOD WORK
AND KEEP IN TOUCH�; CAF� BOEUF�; CATCHUP ADVISORY BOARD�; COMEDY
COLLEGE�; GUY NOIR�; GUY'S SHOES�; LAKE WOBEGON�; LAKE WOBEGON
MINNESOTA GATEWAY TO CENTRAL MINNESOTA�; LAKE WOBEGON WHIPPETS�;
NEWS FROM LAKE WOBEGON�; PHC�; POWDERMILK BISCUITS�; THE COFFEE
CLUB ORCHESTRA�; THE WRITER'S ALMANAC�; WHERE THE WOMEN ARE STRONG,
THE MEN ARE GOOD LOOKING, AND ALL OF THE CHILDREN ARE ABOVE
AVERAGE�.
The following are trademarks and service marks of Garrison Keillor:
AMERICAN DUCT TAPE COUNCIL TM; AMERICAN RADIO COMPANY TM; AMERICAN
RADIO COMPANY OF THE AIR TM; BEBOP-A-REEBOP RHUBARB PIE TM;
BERTHA'S KITTY BOUTIQUE TM; CHATTERBOX CAFE TM; FEARMONGER'S SHOPPE
TM; FISHER'S COFFEE TM; GARRISON KEILLOR'S AMERICAN RADIO COMPANY
TM; IT'S BEEN A QUIET WEEK IN LAKE WOBEGON TM; LAKE WOBEGON JACK
SUMUS QUID SUMUS TM; L'UNIVERSITE DE LAC WOBEGON TM; OUR LADY OF
PERPETUAL RESPONSIBILITY TM; PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION OF ENGLISH
MAJORS TM; SIDETRACK TAP TM; WHIPPETS TM.
The Wine Commonsewer|9.13.05 @ 6:20PM|#
Oh Herm, there is simply no comparison between Lileks and
Keilor. Lileks, whether or not you agree with his screeds, is
talented and sharp. Just his online matchbook collection and his
killer scans are enough to leave PHC & Keilor floundering in
the dust. As Jesse once said Lileks is at his best when he
shuts up and fires up the scanner (paraphrased).
I never knew that Keilor was a DEM. Can't wait to tell my
sister....she'll drop him like a hot rock when she finds out he
ain't no Heartland Conservative Republican.
The Wine Commonsewer|9.13.05 @ 6:21PM|#
Oh Herm, there is simply no comparison between Lileks and
Keilor. Lileks, whether or not you agree with his screeds, is
talented and sharp. Just his online matchbook collection and his
killer scans are enough to leave PHC & Keilor floundering in
the dust. As Jesse once said Lileks is at his best when he
shuts up and fires up the scanner (paraphrased).
I never knew that Keilor was a DEM. Can't wait to tell my
sister....she'll drop him like a hot rock when she finds out he
ain't no Heartland Conservative Republican.
I'm going to go take a power nap while this comment posts. Back in
fifteen minutes or so.
|9.13.05 @ 6:37PM|#
mediageek:
I thought that we ARE past Mickey's copyright expiration date,
except that Congress already acted to extend the life of the
copyright.
The Wine Commonsewer|9.13.05 @ 6:38PM|#
Don't axe why that posted 2 X, I only clicked once. The upside
is that it didn't take fifteen minutes. :-)
Meant to say this earlier:
Plaid-throated Minnesota bore is ranking right up near the
top of the list of classic turns of a phrase.
Nice visual.
|9.13.05 @ 6:53PM|#
I thought it was copyright that lasted 17 years post
death.
Of course songs like "Happy Birthday" are still under copyright
regardless of author because the rights are held by a corporation,
TimeWarner, and not a person.
Same thing with Lennon & Elvis stuff I believe.
Dave W.|9.13.05 @ 6:59PM|#
I thought it was copyright that lasted 17 years post
death.
The c&d letter is based upon trademark infringement, not
copyright infringement. These are very different things.
|9.13.05 @ 7:05PM|#
This is as good a time as any to ask this. Could someone
please explain the libertarian line on copyright laws. The only
thing that I know is that I observe Reason types getting in a twist
every time the topic comes up.
I don't really know if there is such thing as a libertarian line,
but I think around here the feeling is something like that
copyright is ok and good for a certain time, but it's been extended
way too long (anyone care to take bets if Disney gets it extended
*again* when the time comes?), and that fair use gets a pretty wide
berth. The topic gets our panties in a twist because any extension
of copyright or restriction of fair use involves gov't restricting
individuals' creativity, usually at the behest of large
corporations or unions.
Phil|9.13.05 @ 7:37PM|#
I thought it was copyright that lasted 17 years post
death.
Of course songs like "Happy Birthday" are still under copyright
regardless of author because the rights are held by a corporation,
TimeWarner, and not a person.
Same thing with Lennon & Elvis stuff I believe.
Every sentence quoted above is incorrect.
1. Current copyright terms for works published in the US is life +
70, except for certain earlier works, which get life +95. (These
latter works are the ones that concern Disney, for which they
pushed for the extension.)
2. Whether the rights are held by a person or a corporation has,
for practical purposes, no affect on the length of the copyright
term.
3. I don't know about Elvis, but Lennon/McCartney works have
always had their publishing copyrights held by a
corporation, since the very beginning: Northern Songs Ltd. John and
Paul were shareholders in the company. Aside from the Beatles
themselves, the corporate shareholders were originally Dick James
Music Publishing. ATV bought Dick James' shares in 1965, which was
later purchased by Michael Jackson. The rights are currently held
by Sony Music.
4. The melody to "Happy Birthday" is in the public domain, being
identical to the melody to "Good Morning To All," written some
years prior. The lyrics to the song are under copyright, and the
copyright is held by the family of Mildred and Patty Smith
Hill.
|9.13.05 @ 8:26PM|#
Phil -
My fault on the 17 years, but...
How can the length of 70 years "after death" not be affected if the
entity holding said copyright is immortal?(for all effects and
purporses)
And I'm just asking, seriously.
As for Happy Birthday, it is owned and under copyright (lyrics
anyway):
The Chicago-based music publisher Clayton F. Summy Company, working
with Jessica Hill, published and copyrighted "Happy Birthday" in
1935. Under the laws in effect at the time, the Hills' copyright
would have expired after one 28-year term and a renewal of similar
length, falling into public domain by 1991. However, the Copyright
Act of 1976 extended the term of copyright protection to 75 years
from date of publication, and the Copyright Term Extension Act of
1998 added another 20 years, so under current law the copyright
protection of "Happy Birthday" will remain intact until at least
2030.
...
Who does own the publishing rights to "Happy Birthday to You"? They
were acquired by a New York accountant named John F. Sengstack when
he bought the Clayton F. Summy Company in the 1930s; Sengstack
eventually relocated the company to New Jersey and renamed it Birch
Tree Ltd. in the 1970s. Warner Chappell (a Warner Communications
division), the largest music publisher in the world, purchased
Birch Tree Ltd. in late 1998 for a reported sale price of $25
million; the company then became Summy-Birchard Music, now a part
of the giant AOL Time Warner media conglomerate.
Article here
|9.13.05 @ 8:59PM|#
Copyright term in the US is life + 70 years for individual
holders, or 75-95 years for corporate holders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act
|9.13.05 @ 9:16PM|#
What kind of companion do a ho make anyway, on the prairie, or
in the 'hood?
If it don't make sense, it ain't funny.
Steven Andrew Miller|9.13.05 @ 9:45PM|#
I never knew that Keilor was a DEM. Can't wait to tell my
sister....she'll drop him like a hot rock when she finds out he
ain't no Heartland Conservative Republican.
Ummm... Anyone who has listened to the show more that once should
have been able to pick up Keilor's political leanings.
The handful of times I've been forced to listen to PHC Republicans
were the butt of a lot of jokes.
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