British Bombers

The BBC is reporting that at least three of the suspected terrorist bombers in last week's London attacks "are believed to be British men of Pakistani origin who lived in West Yorkshire." However, police believe that the attackers probably had outside help. The suspected murderers, who were in their late teens and early twenties, are now believed to have died in the explosions, according to British press accounts.

"It appears our youth have been involved in last week's horrific bombings against innocent people," Sir Iqbal Sacranie of the Muslim Council of Britain said in a statement. Sir Iqbal received the reports of British Muslim involvement in the bombings with "anguish, shock and horror," the BBC reported. Police have arrested a relative of one of the suspected terrorists.

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    I was listening to Talk of the Nation on Friday, and Azzam Tamini (while blaming the attack on Iraq policy of course) was claiming there was no way the attackers were British Muslims; they had to come from outside because British Muslims would never do such a thing. Guess the dude needs to pay closer attention to his community.

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    "Friday" should be "Monday".

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    bbc 5 live radio is having a hissy fit about the fact they were suicide bombers and british born and there are more...

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    Is anyone REALLY shocked by this? Give me a break.

    Not long ago I saw a group of hate-filled Muslim men in London publicly calling for the deaths of Blair and Bush, in no uncertain terms. Here those fuckers would have been thrown in Gitmo right where they belong. Guess this is what happens when Brits give these scumbags plenty of room.

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    "Not long ago I saw a group of hate-filled Muslim men in London publicly calling for the deaths of Blair and Bush, in no uncertain terms. Here those fuckers would have been thrown in Gitmo right where they belong. Guess this is what happens when Brits give these scumbags plenty of room."

    those silly brits and their freedom. I hear west yorkshire is a good place for a curry.

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    Here those fuckers would have been thrown in Gitmo right where they belong.

    So DU posters are all posting from Gitmo? They wouldn't get thrown in jail unless they had some tenuous link to terrorism.

    Did they figure this out based on info from the thousands of cameras?

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    "Not long ago I saw a group of hate-filled Muslim men in London publicly calling for the deaths of Blair and Bush, in no uncertain terms."

    Should the BNP be banned as well?

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    "Should the BNP be banned as well?"

    The what?

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    Guess this is what happens when Brits give these scumbags plenty of room.

    And I guess this is what happens when your invasion of Iraq, ostensibly part of the War on (Some) Terror, morphs into an apparent War on Brown-Skinned Muslims. Tell me, how many Islamic suicide bombers did Britain have before the Iraq war?

    (Note: I am not trying to engage in a post hoc fallacy, just noting that the suicide-bomber phenomenon is not one that happens in a vacuum.)

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    BNP - British Nationalist Party -- authoritarian xenophobes on par with LePen's NF in le france -- did fairly decent in the last national elections -- members have been connected with racial abuse and violence against the pakistanis in england

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    "Should the BNP be banned as well?"

    Does the BNP openly call for the murders of said Paks? I'm just saying, inciting violence is inciting violence.

    "And I guess this is what happens when your invasion of Iraq, ostensibly part of the War on (Some) Terror, morphs into an apparent War on Brown-Skinned Muslims. Tell me, how many Islamic suicide bombers did Britain have before the Iraq war?"

    "My" invasion of Iraq never turned into a "War on Brown-Skinned Muslims," just a "War on Brown-Skinned Muslims who Want to Blow themselves up and Kill other People for Absurd Religious Motives"

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    Tell me, how many Islamic suicide bombers did Britain have before the Iraq war?

    How many terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center before the Iraq war? One could lay terrorists attacks on the West at the feet of Western foreign policies, but there seems to be a much thinner case for laying them solely at the feet of Iraq war, especially as nations like France, Belgium, and Germany have foiled large-scale attacks before and after the Iraq invasion.

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    "Is anyone REALLY shocked by this? Give me a break."

    I think shock is perfectly appropriate and, quite frankly, typical in these situations. ...Who wants to think that one of their own would do something so hideous? There must be genuine, terrorist-hating Muslims who, even now, are wondering how one of their own could have done something like this.

    There were good Muslim people who had a hard time believing that Osama bin Laden did what he did--they didn't want to believe that a Muslim would do something like that. There are good Americans who are still havin' a hard time coming to terms with the way we treated prisoners in Abu Gharib and Guantanamo. There were leftists in the West who didn't want to believe that what was happening in the Gulags was really happening. There are Germans who would deny the holocaust and Japanese who would deny what they did to civilians and prisoners in war time.

    ...It may be part of human nature that in the "us" and "them" game, we tend to define "them" as the people who do the things that we think are disgusting. For people who are big into that game, when they're suddenly confronted with the fact that "us" did something truly disgusting, it's probably very disorienting, I'm sure.

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    Pardon my use of the word "shock." I meant to say "surprised." Of course it was shocking that this happened, but not surprising that it was done by a "Brit." (I put that in quotation marks because real Brits are civilized people, not barbarians like these assholes.)

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    Good point, Tom.

    And then andy comes in and starts screaming about 'us' (civilised folks) versus 'them' (barbarians).

    Not that I necessarily disagree with his sentiments, but it is still ironic and funny.

    If there are muslims in the streets publicly calling for the deaths of anyone, especially Blair or other high-ranking officials (which pains me to give them any extra special status above the 'average' citizen), they should be duly noted by police and an eye kept on them.

    Again, very tough for me to advocate, but this is the type of thing I'm talking about...fuck the Patriot Act...if there are people obviously desiring/inciting/etc violence, then those are the people that the intelligence community and police should be looking at, not my credit card statements.

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    "Police said they had arrested a relative of one of the four suspects in Yorkshire and taken them to London for questioning."



    Is this guilt by association? Because if it is, then I must say that the US is the better country -- PATRIOT Act or no. I've never heard of a "relative" being arrested here, who was otherwise uninvolved. But the Limeys are making a bad habit of making illegal over there, ensuring everyone's guilty of something.

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    that should be "making EVERYTHING illegal."

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    Sir Iqbal must not be acquainted with Abu Hamza if he's shocked by the involvement of Brit Muslims.

    Maybe he should have payed attention to Bassam Tibi.

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    andy LOL, yes the Brits are so civilized -

    Next morning at ten o'clock an agitated Major Davies appeared in the camp office to announce that all Cossacks were to be sent to the Soviet Union, under the terms of the Yalta Agreement. 'Including the old emigrants?' asked Olga Rotova. 'Including the old emigrants', confirmed Davies. The handover was arranged for 31 May, later that day altered to 1 June. ... Through an interpreter Davies called upon the people to co-operate by entering the lorries voluntarily. Their only response was to continue singing, while the young men on the perimeter linked arms to form a protective human chain. After a second vain attempt, Davies barked out an order. From the backs of the trucks sprang down sixty soldiers, some armed with rifles and fixed bayonets, while other bore heavy pickaxe helves. The company drew up in close order on the western side of the square.



    At a further order from Davies, his troops fired a volley over the heads of the crowd. A shriek arose from terrified women and children, and the dense throng lurched back before their assailants. Ready for the opportunity, the soldiers raced forward and launched a ferocious attack on the fringe of the crowd. Lashing out indiscriminately with rifle-butts and bludgeons, they dragged forth individuals and flung them into the backs of their trucks. A platoon standing in reserve fired a second volley over the heads of the crowd, while the armoured cars on the other side trundled forwardmenacingly.



    Panic broke out among the people. While the young men on the outer rim continued an obstinate resistance, despite the blows which rained down on them, the spontaneous backward movement of so vast a number brought many to the ground, while others willy-nilly were pressed back over them. Women were screaming and children crying, even while others near the altar continued praying with all the strength they could summon. Beneath the accumulating heaps of bodies people were suffocating or being trampled to death.



    The scenes that took place that day were horrible almost beyond description. British soldiers snatched babies from their mothers, flinging them into trucks; old men were beaten and kicked senseless to the ground; pregnant women were trampled underfoot; an unusually sadistic officer had to receive medical treatment for the blisters on his hand raised from excess of beating his defenceless victims.



    Those who could sought to break away in flight. Two avenues presented themselves: the wooden boundary fence to the east which suddenly burst under the intense pressure, causing a swarm of terrified people to surge out into the field beyond. Others ran between the barrack huts to the south, making their way towards a narrow wooden bridge spanning the River Drau. Olga Rotova saw men staggering blindly forward, blood pouring from their beaten heads. Arrived at the banks of the Drau, which at this time of year is in full spate, she witnessed the utter despair of many of her people. Women were flinging their babies into the racing waters, hurling themselves in after them.



    An Operation of War by Leo Tolstoy

    Nobody deserves to die the way the victims o the London Bombings were killed. However, the British are human beings like the Germans, Arabs, Zulus, Aztecs and Americans; they are quite capable of callous brutality upon innocents.

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    The mis-fires in reporting on this still seem odd to me.

    First they say the bombs didn't go off simultaneously, yet they're sure it "bore the mark of AQ". Then they say the bombs did go off simultaneously, but it wasn't suicide bombers. Then they say it was suicide bombers.

    Meanwhile, before this last line comes out, the Brits announce a "plan" to get the hell out of Iraq by year end, while the US "plan" is to cut troop levels down by half. Unless of course it all gets vetoed by Rummy baby. Wouldn't that bum the Brits.

    Maybe it's just coincidence. Dunno. I was living in Atlanta during the '96 Olympics. I was up working on my dissertation when the bombing happened, I remember the first reports that came over the radio. Supposedly "live", on-location reporters were saying that hundreds of people were on the ground dead.

    The next day they were saying that dead and wounded count was much, much smaller.

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    Somebody said the British announced their out by year end plan before the attacks. I didn't see it in the news until after the attacks. Maybe I'm wrong.

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    KMW,

    " Because if it is, then I must say that the US is the better country -- PATRIOT Act or no."

    This is a better country, patriot act or not. Have you ever been there? Sky high taxes, no 1st or 2nd Ammendment. It is illegal to own a gun anywhere, the Englist olympic shooting team has to train in France because it is illegal in their country.

    I don't even have to talk about the weather, bad teeth, or faggoty accents.

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    tarran,

    Yeah, I've heard of Tolstoy's problems with the British government. Is his book still banned there?

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    "I don't even have to talk about the weather, bad teeth, or faggoty accents."

    Wow, it's like the Algonquin Round Table here isn't it?

    The Tolstoy book wasn't banned by the government here. He lost a libel case held in open court. A weird decision, hard to read and possibly reflective of odd biases in the judicial system. But that happens in democracies. OJ anyone? Rodney King?

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    "Wow, it's like the Algonquin Round Table here isn't it?"

    Thank you Paul, I try my best.

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    "Wow, it's like the Algonquin Round Table here isn't it?" Either speak Algonquin or get out. Haudenosaunee will do in a pinch.

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    "are believed to be British men of Pakistani origin who lived in West Yorkshire."

    No, they were Pakistanis who happened to have been born on British soil.

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    Ali: Them days we were glad to have the price of a rucksack of semtex.

    Hussein: Right! A rucksack of cold semtex!

    Abdul: Right!

    Jamal: Without fuse or blasting cap!

    Omar: Or semtex!

    Mustafa: In a torn rucksack and all.

    Ali: Oh, we never used to have a rucksack! We used to have to set charges out of a rolled-up newspaper!

    Hussein: The best we could manage was to wrap it all in a piece of damp cloth.

    Abdul: But you know, we were happy in those days, although we were poor.

    Jamal: Because we were poor!

    Kevin

    Between the "Yorkshiremen" and the Luton reference, it just seemed the thing to do.

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    these guys are no more islamic terrorists as the klu klux klan are catholic terrorist or combat 18 are protestant terrorists.

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    most pakistanis i know are safe lads and practice in moderation. They are very loyal to their religion but tolerant of others, so lets not label all with the same tag. As this will just create tensions which are not needed in the current climate.

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    we are not protestants we are atheist u immigrant. We are having a filed day recruiting members now, so beware we may be coming to a town near you.

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    yeah comat 18 what a load of crap. The paki boys have whipped you whenever you have come down remember bradford,burnley,oldham, southall. stick to fighting other soccer thugs(ten pints and your ready to fight the world). if your hard enough then come down.ps Luton crew waiting in anticipation

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