Take Your Ban and Shove It

Jacob Sullum | January 4, 2005

The Miami Herald reports that a Cutler Ridge, Florida, bar owner who is resisting the state's voter-approved smoking ban has met with some success, winning a favorable ruling from an administrative law judge. Apparently the legislators who wrote the ban were clear that they didn't want any smoking but failed to specify what bar and restaurant owners were required to do about it. My favorite part:

On July 9, Florida Alcohol Beverage and Tobacco agent Jorge Fernandez walked into Pace's bar and saw people smoking. He told manager Lisa Tyrell, who got Pace on the phone with the agent. Pace received a warning that day and asked Fernandez to tell him when he would be back so he could "make sure he had patrons smoking inside his business," according to case documents filed by the state.

Comments

drf|1.4.05 @ 10:40AM|#

is jorge chaneling claude raines again?

seriously: i don't do well with smoke, but gimme a freakin' break. i don't like bars that are too loud, either, but you don't see people in the defense of hearing out there (or we've grown deaf to their calls, much as we no longer hear the trees scream in pain)

but we're more-or-less grownups here. we know smoking is bad. being around smoke bothers some, not others. sit in the freakin no smoking section, have another beer, and shut the fuck up.

sheesh.
"what are you going to do? arrest me for smoking?"

"yes". smack smack. leash leash. wires. gitmo. doggie doggie. lydie.

|1.4.05 @ 10:44AM|#

I think it's telling to take a look at non-smoking establishments in areas that still allow smoking.

There are so few that they don't matter.

Incidentally, Philadelphia's mayor is attempting to ban smoking in public this year. During his time off from avoiding FBI investigations, that is.

|1.4.05 @ 11:28AM|#

drf just can't quite shake his fascination with Lynndie Englund, leashes, and hoods, can he?

Hey, its a free country. Whatever jiggles your handle.

Restaurant smoking bans are an abomination, but I don't know that any of them impose penalties on the smoker.

drf|1.4.05 @ 11:41AM|#

that's right, RC, you old ham you.

you know, you get the vizzini award for today. congragulations.

it all started when a cheezhead with no ability to analyze conflicting views to said cheezhead's narrow, suffocating over zealotry lectured me on the virtues of traffic lights.

it's been downhill ever since.

and my usual comment to those who approve of torture apply to you, too.

|1.4.05 @ 11:59AM|#

vizzini award?

Does this have anything to with a land war in Asia or a contest against a Sicilian when death is on the line?

Warren|1.4.05 @ 12:01PM|#

There was some question as to whether the beggar or his minkey was breaking the law... So I let them of with a warning.

drf|1.4.05 @ 12:19PM|#

hey pint:

yup. and how his intellect makes plato et al seem like morons (paraphrase).

and warren, you said, "minkey"

|1.4.05 @ 12:35PM|#

I often wonder if this blog were a picnic, would a soccer game break out a la the Flying Circus pitting the Greeks against the Germans.

|1.4.05 @ 12:38PM|#

Inconceivable!

|1.4.05 @ 12:39PM|#

There are so few that they don't matter.

Wrong. It matters very much to the state. Defiance cannot be tolerated. It's a power thing.

|1.4.05 @ 12:50PM|#

Wrong. It matters very much to the state. Defiance cannot be tolerated. It's a power thing

The state is concerned with non-smoking bars where smoking is allowed?

|1.4.05 @ 1:00PM|#

Italy has banned smoking in bars and restaurants:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6759566/


Pretty soon, the only place you will be able to legally smoke in public in Europe will be that bastion of liberty, France. :)

|1.4.05 @ 1:05PM|#

On a side note, it's interesting how a key component of that article is "No Drop", as in, many restaurants have seen no drop in customers since the ban went into effect. This is always how attacks on liberty are viewed, as if, unless it really screws up your profit margin, then, it's a-oh-fucking-k. That's the litmus test. Not whether it's an abomination to liberty, freedom, personal responsibility, and everything else this country is built upon. No, what does THAT shit matter? If we can rob people of their liberty, but not cause too many ripples in the foot traffic counts, then why not?

No principles, only pragmatics. Sad.

|1.4.05 @ 1:07PM|#

The state is concerned with non-smoking bars where smoking is allowed?

Absolutely. Don't get me wrong, it may not take top priority. Like everyone else, government chooses its battles. But once a law is written, they will not allow open defiance. At least not enough to provide threat. This is a key element of all the "self-enforcement" and "exemptions" contained in bans. Larger businesses tend to follow law without question. Smaller ones sneak by until they make the news, then the screws get tightened. Together, these effects allow the bans to take hold without generating defiance sufficient to threaten the state's power.
But to allow even one bar to openly defy the ban would be a threat. One that must be countered to prevent other bars from following the lead.

|1.4.05 @ 1:58PM|#

"Italy has banned smoking in bars and restaurants:"

I sure this will be as scrupulously observed as the tax laws. :)

|1.4.05 @ 2:09PM|#

I'M sure.....

Benjamin Baeker|1.4.05 @ 11:57PM|#

Two things.

I got the new The Onion calendar for 2005. The first article on there is "Only place left to smoke is a room in Iowa." If you can find it on the net...it is great.

Secondly, my wife and I disagree on this whole smoking ban thing. I live in Florida and despise the smoking laws. She just rolls her eyes when we have guests from out of state who try to ask for non-smoking section in a restaurant...becuase she knows I am going to go on my tirade.

What I would like to see...is that since government can force a private establishment to not allow a certain type of behavior in their restaurant...how come they can't force all restaurants to provide us all with after dinner mints too. haven't you noticed how restaurants these days have moved away from providing free mints at the door or with your check? I think this is a SERIOUS problem that needs to be explored.

|1.5.05 @ 3:42AM|#

Maybe drf misspelled The Vezina Trophy - for letting the least get by you on the net?

http://nhl.com/hockeyu/history/trophies/vezina.html

A cheesehead gave drf grief about a traffic light? Don't all Wisconsinites do that when FIBs cross the border? :)

Kevin