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Kicking 'em While They're Down
UPDATES! There have been many fairly important updates to this post—chief among them that the person identified in the second photo has denied being the person depicted in the first. That account is now here. We've closed comments on this post because people were posting personal info that could be used to contact and harass the guy. That would be clearly non-Kosher even this weren't an investigation still in progress; since it is still in progress, it's super bacon cheeseburger with a clam on top non-Kosher. END UPDATE
So I see that TalkLeft and other liberal blogs have been
wondering about the identity of this guy:
...who purportedly kicked a female protester (video
here) at the Republican convention. Of course, if you're trying
to identify a hardcore right-winger, left-wing blogs are probably
the wrong place to post your query. Because someone on the right
might've recognized a former National Taxpayers Union intern
(left):
I didn't know the guy, but a few people who were in town this summer and did seem fairly certain it's him. Assuming it is, I guess "the angry and debilitating, empty-rhetoric of mob-style street politics" he denounces here are less debilitating when you're in the mob.
UPDATE I showed this video, in which the kicker is shown more clearly and speaks briefly with a reporter, to someone who spent the summer as part of the same internship program. That person says it's him...
UPDATE 2: Naughty, naughty NTU... someone there just cropped their 2004 intern photo, leaving this, with the guy I'm being told appears to be the kicker cropped out. Of course, I expected as much, so the full photo is still above.
UPDATE 3: Allow me to clarify that I'm not posting this just because of the resemblance in the photos (which would be grossly irresponsible), but because of numerous people who spent the entire summer with him using language like "absolutely sure" and "no doubt" about the guy in the RNC photo and video being the same person. Another blogger has just passed along the following email, which I'm told was sent some time ago but held back for want of multiple confirmations, which I've had at this point:
The young republican who kicked a girl in ABC video is a junior at Wharton (University of Pennsylvania) named Scott Robinson. Although I have been an acquantaince of Scott's for 2 years and know of his radical republican ideals, this video was over the line and heinous enough for me to speak up. [AUTHOR-IDENTIFYING COMMENTS REMOVED] I hope this helps in doign whatever it takes to ensure that something like this does not happen again and Scott is held responsible for his actions. Thanks
UPDATE 4: Yet another D.C. intern this summer who knew Robinson is JD Henchman. He's absolutely postive that the person in the video is Scott, and adds: "I'm not surprised that Scott would do something like that."
|9.16.04 @ 2:40PM|#
Nice work, Julian - did you recognize him yourself, or were you
tipped?
Based on what I've seen, by the way, the guy should be brought up
on charges.
|9.16.04 @ 2:41PM|#
There are plenty of rumors swirling that it's Dr. Laura's son. I have no evidence either way...
|9.16.04 @ 2:42PM|#
Symbolic politics matters.
You toss true believers enough red meat, they start acting like
predators.
We'd be better off if "whipping people into a frenzy" wasn't an
acceptable political tactic.
|9.16.04 @ 3:05PM|#
"the angry and debilitating, empty-rhetoric of mob-style
street politics"
He must hate the American Revolution then. :)
|9.16.04 @ 3:05PM|#
"I guess the 'the angry and debilitating, empty-rhetoric of
mob-style street politics' he denounces here are less debilitating
when you're in the mob."
I could either say:
Exactly wrong. While in jail, he'll have plenty of time to consider
how just debilitating they can be.
or
What mob? This is just some jackass kicking a girl on his own. That
excuse isn't even open to him.
|9.16.04 @ 3:08PM|#
I had a funny experience with the NTU. I was selling art door to
door on Capitol Hill in 1995, and knocked on their door. The office
manager or director or whatever was late back from lunch, and
everybody was pissed, so when she walked in, they made her buy them
some framed prints.
So I'm walking out to the car with her, and I say "Hey, National
Taxpayer's Union. I've heard of you guys!"
She, suspicious, "Oh, yeah?"
"Yeah! I read about you in Time."
Warming up, "Yeah?"
"Yeah. You're the people pushing the flat tax idea, right?"
Smiling, "Yes, that's right."
"You know, that idea has really taken off..."
Big smile at me.
"...since Jerry Brown started pushing it in his campaign."
Huffy, "WELL, it didn't REALLY get going until Speaker Armey put it
on the agenda!"
"Ohhhh...."
I only ended up selling about half a dozen pieces, but it was worth
it.
|9.16.04 @ 3:23PM|#
That experience is not funny. Neither "ha ha" nor "weird."
Judgement has been rendered.
|9.16.04 @ 3:36PM|#
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2004_09_01_patriotboy_archive.html#109452168211748732
Joe|9.16.04 @ 3:42PM|#
I suppose all those left wingers got a little worked up due to all the other instances of the Reps stepping on people and their constitutional rights.
|9.16.04 @ 4:05PM|#
Does freedom of speech give folks a right to heckle? Is heckling considered blocking someone else's speech?
|9.16.04 @ 4:06PM|#
I'm not sure those two people are the same guy. The guy in the
video has a longer face and less deep-set eyes, and the nose and
eyebrows seem different too. It's hard to say, though.
It also seems a little strange that an NTUF intern would wear a
"Monster.com" shirt to the convention. But maybe he was
job-hunting. :)
|9.16.04 @ 4:12PM|#
I've got some nice Matisse prints. Why don't you leave your computer on and come look at them?
|9.16.04 @ 4:13PM|#
curious,
Well, its a private event, so they can boot anyone they want to.
Plus, Bush doesn't like potential protesters in a crowd, which is
why his speeches only have Bush supporters in them.
The Lonewacko Blog|9.16.04 @ 4:15PM|#
Meanwhile: Has Kerry Union Thug Been Identified? The answer is yes, but apparently no charges were filed.
|9.16.04 @ 4:37PM|#
Gary,
Thanks, but I was wondering if there was anything on the books
about heckling either being protected speech or as interfering with
someone's protected speech.
I can understand someone getting tossed from a private event, but
what about a public one?
|9.16.04 @ 4:37PM|#
Sorry, Wacko. No one was complaining that the heckler at the RNC
got grabbed and tossed out, but that 1) she got kicked when she was
down, and 2) she was a she, and he was a he.
Some people fight so dirty, they don't even know what clean is.
|9.16.04 @ 4:38PM|#
out of curiosity of who reads this site -- how viral is this
post -- is his pic on rncnotwelcome or related lefty blogs,
etc.?
Where is he from, where does he live?
|9.16.04 @ 4:39PM|#
Hey, at least the union thug doesn't hit girls. What kinda Wonderpuss kicks 1) a girl, 2) when she's down?
|9.16.04 @ 4:40PM|#
out of curiosity of who reads this site -- how viral is this
post -- is his pic on rncnotwelcome or related lefty blogs,
etc.?
Where is he from, where does he live?
|9.16.04 @ 4:41PM|#
out of curiosity of who reads this site -- how viral is this
post -- is his pic on rncnotwelcome or related lefty blogs,
etc.?
Where is he from, where does he live?
|9.16.04 @ 4:58PM|#
curious,
In a "public forum" you can pretty much heckle all you want to I
guess; at least within some limits. This gets one involved of
course potentially in "fighting words" and "hostile audiences" and
the case law concerned with those concepts. I recall two cases from
memory concerning these sorts of things - Chaplinsky and
Feiner.
TWF|9.16.04 @ 5:00PM|#
Just from the looks of him, I would suspect that he is the type that kicks people when they are down; is he by any chance kin to Tim McVeigh? Lokks a little like him.
|9.16.04 @ 5:03PM|#
I'd like to add that not only did he kick the girl while she was down -- but he kicked her while she was being restrained by THREE secret service agents. Republican family values at work. Kick girl while she is on the ground restrained by other men.
|9.16.04 @ 5:07PM|#
Looks like they've cropped the photo, cause the ones I see don't look much like the kicker. Anyone have a screenshot? (I already checked Google's cache of that page, and they've got a different intern photo.)
Mahatma|9.16.04 @ 5:08PM|#
I hope you are really sure or you just libeled an innocent person. That can be expensive.
billyblazer|9.16.04 @ 5:11PM|#
The link made it to Atios. From there it will get around.
Good job on ferreting out the brownshirts.
Jason|9.16.04 @ 5:11PM|#
I hope someone got a screencap or a copy of the original picture since it seems to have been cropped now.
|9.16.04 @ 5:12PM|#
Atrios has the original image:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/atrios/2004interns.jpg
|9.16.04 @ 5:14PM|#
I've got six people who spent the whole summer with him claiming that's the guy. They might all be wrong, but it'd be a hell of a coincidence.
|9.16.04 @ 5:21PM|#
'I hope you are really sure or you just libeled an innocent
person. That can be expensive.'
Indeed. The kicker may be a world class douchebag but the
appropriate avenue here is law enforcement not blog vigilantism, or
jury by JPEG. Very irresponsible.
|9.16.04 @ 5:23PM|#
'I hope you are really sure or you just libeled an innocent
person. That can be expensive.'
Indeed. The kicker may be a world class douchebag but the
appropriate avenue here is law enforcement not blog vigilantism, or
jury by JPEG. Very irresponsible.
|9.16.04 @ 5:24PM|#
"Based on what I've seen, by the way, the guy should be brought
up on charges."
Come on RCD, I would have thought anyone from Samizdata would be
all for assulting people who oppose your war. They're supporting
Saddam, aren't they?
|9.16.04 @ 5:28PM|#
Hey, I was an NTU intern once, too! But the worst thing I was accused of was not doing much work. Someone should kick this douche bag's ass.
|9.16.04 @ 5:33PM|#
Atrios has the original, uncropped photo:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/atrios/2004interns.jpg
|9.16.04 @ 5:41PM|#
Libel: Basically defamation in writing and allied forms.
Slander: This is basically oral defamation.
For a more precise definition, look to the Restatement of
Torts:
"Libel" and "slander" are both methods of defamation; the
former being expressed in print, writing, pictures, or signs; the
latter by oral expressions or transitory gestures.
Restament, Second, Torts, sec. 568
|9.16.04 @ 5:43PM|#
atrios.blogspot.com has the un-cropped version of the photo. I think it's the same guy.
|9.16.04 @ 5:49PM|#
The uncropped picture is here: http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_09_12_atrios_archive.html#109536781620176238
wag|9.16.04 @ 5:52PM|#
here's the URL to the uncropped pic:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/atrios/2004interns.jpg
looks like the guy to me.
|9.16.04 @ 5:54PM|#
Come on RCD, I would have thought anyone from Samizdata
would be all for assulting people who oppose your war.
Scott, perhaps you can link to one single post of mine or of any
Samizdatista that supports your little smear.
No? Thought not.
|9.16.04 @ 5:55PM|#
Can someone tell me if they cropped the pic, and if Atrios has it up on his site?
Phil|9.16.04 @ 5:55PM|#
Indeed. The kicker may be a world class douchebag but the
appropriate avenue here is law enforcement not blog vigilantism, or
jury by JPEG.
That's right -- the resources of the blog world are only supposed
to be unleashed on world-shaking issues like typography and Dan
Rather, not on assault & battery cases!
|9.16.04 @ 5:56PM|#
sorry for reposting so much. i couldn't tell if my post went through. site just lagged for days.
|9.16.04 @ 6:00PM|#
dbfactor,
Post, then let your post hang for a few minutes, then hit refresh
on your browser. That seems to work for me, and avoids the
re-posts. :)
Steve in CO|9.16.04 @ 6:04PM|#
His name might be Scott Robinson.
PS Here's the uncropped photo in question.
What a scumbag.
Tim Cavanaugh|9.16.04 @ 6:04PM|#
Can someone tell me if they cropped the pic, and if Atrios
has it up on his site?
Big 10-4 to both, Redundency. But don't worry! You can see the
uncropped photo
here.
Steve in CO|9.16.04 @ 6:07PM|#
His name might be Scott Robinson.
PS Here's the uncropped photo in question.
What a scumbag.
Steve in CO|9.16.04 @ 6:08PM|#
His name might be Scott Robinson.
PS Here's the uncropped photo in question.
What a scumbag.
|9.16.04 @ 6:08PM|#
Okay, admittedly, he kicked a girl who was on the ground, and
who was being restrained by three men.
But, look, the guy's such a wuss, that's what it took to make it a
fair fight.
If she only had two guys holding her, she would have torn off his
remaining half-testicle.
|9.16.04 @ 6:10PM|#
Wacko:
Here's the difference democrats fight wars don't send others to
war, dems stand by the facts they don't spin,lie, intimidate,etc,
dems stand their ground they don't cower under the federal
government and finally dems go "mano a mano" with men they don't
hit women. So go whine and moan with your right-wing
chicken-pussies.
|9.16.04 @ 6:10PM|#
Atrios posted the original photo here; the alleged kicker is the
guy with the kinky (kinky!) hair on the left:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/atrios/2004interns.jpg
=P
|9.16.04 @ 6:11PM|#
Like a couple of posters have noted, the site hosting the image
has cropped the guy out of the photograph.
While I'm sure that will be obvious to Julian or the webmaster of
Reason.com once they check this page, it bears noting.
Atrios has a screenshot of the photo including the kicking kid,
which folks can see here:
Full Picture, including the kicking kid
Ohyeah. you're welcome.
Steve in CO|9.16.04 @ 6:11PM|#
His name might be Scott Robinson.
PS Here's the uncropped photo in question.
What a scumbag.
Steve in CO|9.16.04 @ 6:12PM|#
His name might be Scott Robinson.
PS Here's the uncropped photo in question.
What a scumbag.
|9.16.04 @ 6:15PM|#
Tim Cavanaugh,
You reliving fantasies you had after seeing the movie
Convoy? :)
(Yeah, breaker one-nine, this here�s the Rubber Duck, you
got a copy
on me bigpen? C�mon.)
(Ah yeah, ten-four bigpen, for sure, for sure. By golly
it�s clean clear to
Flagtown. C�mon.)
(Yeah, that�s a big ten-four there bigpen. Yeah, we
definitely got the
front door good buddy. Mercy sakes live, looks like we got us
a
convoy)
Steve in CO|9.16.04 @ 6:15PM|#
His name might be Scott Robinson.
PS Here's the uncropped photo in question.
What a scumbag.
|9.16.04 @ 6:16PM|#
Like a couple of posters have noted, the site hosting the image
has cropped the guy out of the photograph.
While I'm sure that will be obvious to Julian or the webmaster of
Reason.com once they check this page, it bears noting.
Atrios has a screenshot of the photo including the kicking kid,
which folks can see here:
Full Picture, including the kicking kid
Ohyeah. you're welcome.
|9.16.04 @ 6:18PM|#
Like a couple of posters have noted, the site hosting the image
has cropped the guy out of the photograph.
While I'm sure that will be obvious to Julian or the webmaster of
Reason.com once they check this page, it bears noting.
Atrios has a screenshot of the photo including the kicking kid,
which folks can see here:
Full Picture, including the kicking kid
Ohyeah. you're welcome.
Steve in CO|9.16.04 @ 6:23PM|#
His name might be Scott Robinson.
PS Here's the uncropped photo in question.
What a scumbag.
Steve in CO|9.16.04 @ 6:26PM|#
His name might be Scott Robinson.
PS Here's the uncropped photo in question.
What a scumbag.
|9.16.04 @ 6:32PM|#
>Looks like they've cropped the photo, cause the ones I see
don't look much like the kicker. Anyone have a screenshot? (I
already checked Google's cache of that page, and they've got a
different intern photo.)
Atrios has it
here.
|9.16.04 @ 6:34PM|#
>Looks like they've cropped the photo, cause the ones I see
don't look much like the kicker. Anyone have a screenshot? (I
already checked Google's cache of that page, and they've got a
different intern photo.)
Atrios has it
here.
Steve in CO|9.16.04 @ 6:38PM|#
Much apologies for the scatter-shot posts... the site was bogged
down something fierce...
:-)
|9.16.04 @ 6:42PM|#
Wait, if this guy assaulted a girl who was being held by three
Secret Service agents, why was he not arrested on the spot?
Please, please tell me I don't know the answer to that question...
:(
Sixfootpole|9.16.04 @ 6:44PM|#
America Blog
http://americablog.blogspot.com/archives/2004_09_12_americablog_archive.html#109537193326040282
has both versions of this photo, including Before and After. Why
would they crop it now?
That kicker sure is a 17th Century style gentleman, eh? Kick a
person when she's down. Hit a GIRL!!! Then run away. A true
prince.
|9.16.04 @ 6:47PM|#
For the curious, Atrios has a screenshot:
http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_09_12_atrios_archive.html#109536781620176238
|9.16.04 @ 6:48PM|#
Wait, if this guy assaulted a girl who was being held by three
Secret Service agents, why was he not arrested on the spot?
Please, please tell me I don't know the answer to that question...
:(
|9.16.04 @ 6:50PM|#
> This may set the all time record to links from Reason to
atrios.
Wait till Eschaton Wet T-shirt week.
|9.16.04 @ 6:51PM|#
I would say that the NTU would only crop that person from their photo if he were indeed the culprit of the aassault. That said, I haven't read anything on this site that purports to insist that the person in the NTU photo is for certain the assaulter, hence no libel Mahatma.
|9.16.04 @ 6:55PM|#
Atrios has a screen shot up with the little coward still in the shot. Looks like the whole group is populated with cowards.
|9.16.04 @ 6:56PM|#
Note to new posters from Atrios:
All of the readers here really do appreciate being informed that
Atrios has the picture, but...
1) A dozen or so of you guys already told us... about 3 times
apiece ;)
2) Just click the "post" button once. Yes, even if
it takes forever for the software to respond. And if you get an
error message, my advice is to click the "back" button on your
browser, copy what you just wrote onto your clipboard, and then
click "refresh" to see if it posted anyway despite the error
message. If it didn't, feel free to try posting again.
Thank you, and enjoy our wacky forum, where we subject our
hypotheses to at least as much scrutiny as Dan Rather!
;)
|9.16.04 @ 6:57PM|#
Atrios has a screen shot up with the little coward still in the shot. Looks like the whole group is populated with cowards.
Steve in CO|9.16.04 @ 7:00PM|#
Thanks Thoreau ... I am really embarassed at the number of
redundant posts I put up. I swear it didn't show up the first two
or three times I refreshed the page. I swear! :-D
PS Is there going to be a 4th season of 24 this fall?
|9.16.04 @ 7:05PM|#
screen shot of original photo is available at this link
http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004/09/rnc-kicker-identified.html
|9.16.04 @ 7:05PM|#
Steve-
Being a long-running poster, you should know better. No soup for
you! ;->
The new season of 24 won't start until January. They're going to
run it Monday nights, and they're going to start late so they can
do a full run without any interruptions. They'll do a few 2 hour
episodes, supposedly, so they can get through 24 hours by the end
of May.
http://24spoilers.tvheaven.com
Frederick|9.16.04 @ 7:05PM|#
Atrios posted the uncropped picture, with a guy added on the left -- http://tinyurl.com/5as8y
|9.16.04 @ 7:06PM|#
Wait, if this guy assaulted a girl who was being held by
three Secret Service agents, why was he not arrested on the
spot?
You make it sound like three agents had her in custody and he just
walked up and kicked her. Watch the video -- he kicks her while
they're still in the process of apprehending her, and none of them
were looking in the right direction to see the kick. So it's
entirely possible that the guy escaped arrest because the Secret
Service guys didn't see the kick.
It's also possible that they refrained from arresting him because
doing so would have conflicted with their duty to protect their
charges -- they are there to deal with threats to certain
government officials, not threats to the general public. The
regular police handle that. After all, if the Secret Service was
obligated to deal with every crime it witnessed, an organized force
could perform a "denial of service attack" on the President's
bodyguards simply by staging fights in their presence.
|9.16.04 @ 7:07PM|#
screen shot of original photo is available at this link
http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004/09/rnc-kicker-identified.html
MildlyDisturbed|9.16.04 @ 7:17PM|#
NTU cropped the wuss out of the picture. You can see the
original here.
Picture url is:
http://img71.exs.cx/img71/3070/2004interns.jpg
Screenshot stolen from Atrios.
|9.16.04 @ 7:47PM|#
Dan,
I'd have to argue with your interpretation of the video -- two of
the agents are standing right next to the guy.
And as GG points out, the place was crawling with cops -- could
they not have flagged one of them down if concerned with leaving
their post?
|9.16.04 @ 7:54PM|#
Dan,
After all, if the Secret Service was obligated to deal with
every crime it witnessed, an organized force could perform a
"denial of service attack" on the President's bodyguards simply by
staging fights in their presence.
Please. Three of them grabbed a girl who committed the crime of
holding up a sign and shouting. You're telling me they couldn't
grab a guy and hold him for a few seconds till the police got
there?
|9.16.04 @ 7:55PM|#
Dan,
After all, if the Secret Service was obligated to deal with
every crime it witnessed, an organized force could perform a
"denial of service attack" on the President's bodyguards simply by
staging fights in their presence.
Please. Three of them grabbed a girl who committed the crime of
holding up a sign and shouting. You're telling me they couldn't
grab a guy and hold him for a few seconds till the police got
there?
|9.16.04 @ 8:07PM|#
I would think that in a situation of a disturbance the Secret
Service should simply arrest anybody who gets violent, period.
Whether it's a protestor or somebody who seems to be on the
opposite side, they'd simply arrest anybody who get violent. The
goal isn't just to get the protestors and leave everybody else
alone, the goal is to restore order to the event where their
protectee is speaking, period. Anybody who gets violent for any
reason is a threat to law and order there.
The notion that they simply lacked the manpower to handle this guy
without abandoning their primary charge would imply that if the
protestors would have just brough a few extra people with them they
would have had free run of the place.
The only excuse I can see is that maybe they didn't realize what he
was doing. However, as I recall he was kicking the woman that they
were holding. Shouldn't they have noticed his foot coming in there,
even if they weren't facing him directly? I mean, sure, it's a
chaotic situation and all, but they are supposed to be trained
observers skilled at identifying and subduing anybody who engages
in violence in an area they're trying to secure. And it's not like
this is the most stressful situation the Secret Service would
expect to encounter. A handful of shouting people with signs should
pose far less stress for them than, say, a sniper taking shots at a
protectee or some other situation that they (presumably) train
for.
We're left with 2 possibilities:
1) They aren't as observant as one would hope. If a relatively
minor disturbance can make them oblivious to some guy kicking the
person that they're holding on to, I want a refund on the taxes
that I paid toward their salary. To quote the Donald, "You should
have noticed that dipshit thug kicking the person that you were
taking control of. It's your job to notice violence even in
stressful situation. You didn't do that, so I have to say you're
fired."
2) They didn't see a need to deal with the dipshit thug kicking the
girl because he was one of the "good guys" and she was one of the
"bad guys." That's the sort of thug mentality I'd expect from, say,
the LAPD's Rampart CRASH units, not nation's most elite
(supposedly) law enforcement agency.
|9.16.04 @ 8:46PM|#
Clearly the guy should have been arrested, and should still be
arrested, but let's not go nuts. The Secret Service knows that to
restore order they just need to get protestors out of there.
Suppose this was more of a mob situation, or turning into a mob
situation and not just one assclown. It would be best to grab the
protestors and get them out, rather than pull in anyone else in the
crowd who might be taking cheap shots on the way by, who might
quickly be multiplying.
|9.16.04 @ 8:57PM|#
JDM-
When I was in high school, if there was a fight the teachers would
pull the two fighting students apart. They wouldn't just pull away
the guy who started it, because once he's gone the situation will
calm down. They'd pull away anybody who was throwing punches.
You're basically suggesting that the Secret Service only needs to
pull away the people who started it in order to restore order.
|9.16.04 @ 9:00PM|#
I'd have to argue with your interpretation of the video --
two of the agents are standing right next to the guy
I know they're standing right next to him, but look at when the
kick occurs, about 80% of the way into the video -- the balding
agent is looking at something off to the kicker's left, and the
agent with the short red/brown hair has his back to the kicker. The
third guy's off camera, but when last seen was standing on the
other side of the balding guy. It looks to me like the guy snuck in
a kick when the agents weren't looking.
Three of them grabbed a girl who committed the crime of holding
up a sign and shouting.
The three of them grabbed a woman about whom they knew exactly two
things: (a) she hated Bush, and (b) she had snuck into the
convention. I'm sure they're very sorry they didn't have your
magical psychic powers to look into the future and see that she'd
turn out to be harmless, because having powers like that sure would
make their jobs easier. As it is, five out of the last ten
Presidents have been either killed, shot, or shot at by assassins,
so the Secret Service natually has no sense of humor about people
like this.
You're telling me they couldn't grab a guy and hold him for a
few seconds till the police got there
If you think it takes "a few seconds" to grab a guy and hold him
for the police, you don't know shit about police work. But in any
case the answer to your question is no, the Secret Service can not
just decide to blow off their bodyguarding duties in order to
arrest some guy for misdemeanor assault. What they would do, if
they'd seen the assault, would be to notify security, via radio, to
come grab the guy.
|9.16.04 @ 9:02PM|#
can somebody link to any others photo of this fine young
Republican? You know his name and school. How about a yearbook
photo? For confirmation.
|9.16.04 @ 9:12PM|#
Good job Julian. You've done so much to advance libertarian thought and discussion with this post.
|9.16.04 @ 9:12PM|#
We're left with 2 possibilities:
We're left with 3 possibilities; the third is that you haven't
actually watched the video very closely. :)
If a relatively minor disturbance can make them oblivious to
some guy kicking the person that they're holding on to, I want a
refund on the taxes that I paid toward their salary.
He kicked her once, so far as I can tell, and they weren't holding
on to her yet. Also, calling it "a minor disturbance" isn't fair,
and you know it. It isn't like there were three Secret Service guys
alone in a park with a protester and the guy who kicked her. They
were in a massive crowd of people, and the incident they missed
took only a fraction of a second. It isn't like the Rodney King
beating was reenacted under their noses and they missed it.
|9.16.04 @ 9:18PM|#
Uh, Dan, if you think law enforcement haven't got a duty to
protect those in their custody (wow, Dan, if they had the same
magical fantasy, like you, to think this woman posed any
significant threat to Bush whatsoever, it sure seemed they'd want
to avoid her turning into another Lee Harvey Oswald at the gun
and/or foot of Jack Ruby/Wimp Scotty, right?) -- to include not
magically (and incompetently) "looking the other way" as you
describe above.... then YOU don't know shit about police
work.
And unless...you know....certain law enforcement officers
selectively enforce laws based on their own political beliefs. Not
that that ever happens in America. No sir.
Phil|9.16.04 @ 9:23PM|#
The three of them grabbed a woman about whom they knew
exactly two things: (a) she hated Bush, and (b) she had snuck into
the convention. I'm sure they're very sorry they didn't have your
magical psychic powers to look into the future and see that she'd
turn out to be harmless, because having powers like that sure would
make their jobs easier.
Actually, if they knew either of those two things, they
were endowed with more magical psychic powers than either you or I
can possibly envision.
Dick Cheney|9.16.04 @ 9:28PM|#
Big entertainment going on in comments over on Little Scotty's
blog page at the Kock Foundation:
http://ksfp2004.blogspot.com/2004/08/dems-disenfranshise-militarykerry.html
|9.16.04 @ 9:29PM|#
Dan,
I've watched the video and I don't agree with your analysis; his
actions were clearly visible to at least one of the agents (the
balding fellow) and he appears to glance in their direction just as
he ensues his kicking. Now, maybe he missed the action, but the
case is hardly as open and shut as you appear to claim that it
is.
BTW, he appears to have kicked her twice or three times. There was
an initial kick that occurred while he was helping put her to the
ground, then there was one or two following kicks when gets to the
ground.
Finally, there is the possibility that the fellow who seems to push
him away is also a SS agent as well; he appears to be dressed
similarly as the other "agents" after all.
|9.16.04 @ 9:34PM|#
"You're basically suggesting that the Secret Service only needs
to pull away the people who started it in order to restore
order."
Yes. That's it exactly. Can you refute that?
"And unless...you know....certain law enforcement officers
selectively enforce laws based on their own political
beliefs."
So if the same thing happened at Democratic President's convention,
do you think they would haul off the entire crowd and leave the
Republican protestors?
|9.16.04 @ 9:36PM|#
, the Secret Service can not just decide to blow off their
bodyguarding duties in order to arrest some guy
Dan, your kneejerk fascist-apologizing naivete is hanging out of
your shorts, you might want to tuck it back in.
I suggest you run out and watch Fahrenheit 911 before spouting
hilarious BS like this. It's captured live on video for you
there.
|9.16.04 @ 9:39PM|#
Anyway, she has an excellent suit in the making for battery; and hopefully criminal charges will be filed against this man as well.
|9.16.04 @ 9:40PM|#
here is an anti-kerry article mr. robinson posted on the daily pennsylvanian http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/40b575b016095?in_archive=1
|9.16.04 @ 9:41PM|#
here is an anti-kerry article mr. robinson posted on the daily pennsylvanian http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/40b575b016095?in_archive=1
|9.16.04 @ 9:41PM|#
here is an anti-kerry article mr. robinson posted on the daily pennsylvanian http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/40b575b016095?in_archive=1
Pete Sepp|9.16.04 @ 10:10PM|#
To the Editor:
For the record, Mr. Robinson left NTU Foundation's internship
program well before the GOP convention. Whether or not Mr. Robinson
is indeed the same person depicted in the convention video, my
organization repudiates violence in all forms. Now to the burning
question no doubt elicited from the editor's "update 2": why is
there now a different photo on the NTU Foundation's website?
Because "Kicking 'em While They're Down" didn't adequately clarify
the fact that Mr. Robinson was long gone from NTUF before this
chain of blogged events unfairly implicated us in the incident.
Sorry, but the words "spent the summer" didn't cut it, since we've
been put in the position of having to explain our total
non-involvement in this controversy (or whatever it is) to a few
seriously confused people who've emailed us directly. What's that
phrase from the top of page I read? Oh yes ... naughty, naughty,
Hit and Run.
Pete Sepp
Vice President for Communications
National Taxpayers Union Foundation
|9.16.04 @ 10:19PM|#
Scott Robinson blogs on how he feels about protesters.
http://ksfp2004.blogspot.com/2004/06/sick-of-radical-protestors.html#comments
|9.16.04 @ 10:21PM|#
Where is the Reason in most of these posts? Talk about a mob metality....I didn't realize readers of this web/magazine were comprised of so many pugilistic vigilantes.
|9.16.04 @ 10:22PM|#
Vice President Sepp (if that's who you really are),
So you thought that cropping him out of the picture would show that
you're not connected to him? Such an act has "cover-up" written all
over it.
|9.16.04 @ 10:33PM|#
It looks to me like the guy snuck in a kick when the agents
weren't looking.
lol! You're telling me that this guy could stand in the midst of
three Secret Service agents, and probably more scattered around the
place, and kick a girl they were touching "while they weren't
looking". Good thing no one with a plan to harm the prez got in
while they weren't looking.
What they would do, if they'd seen the assault, would be to
notify security, via radio, to come grab the guy.
Which is why it's left to bloggers to find him, right?
|9.16.04 @ 10:35PM|#
Steve in CO, the first 2 or 3 times...
When the error message comes up go back and then refresh. Guess
what! Your post will be there. You gotta be a Democrat. /R
|9.16.04 @ 10:38PM|#
Police suggest entire population in the Elm Terrace area do as follows: Everyone in every house in every street open a front or rear door or look from the windows. The fugitive cannot escape if everyone in the next minute looks from his house. Ready!
|9.16.04 @ 10:38PM|#
Step back...,
Well, considering roughly 70% of the posts in this thread are plugs
for Atrios' displaying of the intern picture...
And I will look up what "pugilistic vigilantes" means! :
|9.16.04 @ 10:45PM|#
Pete Sepp,
He was a summer intern, was he not? Did anyone claim that your
organization was reponsible for his actions? Not that I can see.
Did you try to distance yourself from this individual by cropping
the picture? It appears so. Do you look foolish for doing so? Yep.
:)
|9.16.04 @ 10:46PM|#
To Pete Sepp:
Your defense of the doctored photo is amusing but completely
nonsensical.
What possible difference does it make that young Mr. Peterson's
internship ended before the Republican convention? His assault on a
defenseless protestor in no way changes the straightforward truth
that he WAS one of NTUF's 2004 "Associates."
While you may no longer wish to be associated with this pathetic
thug, your attempt to doctor your own records only makes you look
like a sneaky, lying bunch of weasels. And, frankly, that's just
what I'd expect from a group that tries to sell the snake oil of a
flat tax.
|9.16.04 @ 10:50PM|#
Mr. Sepp,
Your letter made little sense to probably just about everyone
reading it. You didn't explain WHY you deleted his picture from the
internship group photo. Is it really your assertation that the
reason was this blog didn't say he was "long gone"? That's a
non-answer, and a ridiculous argument. I hope your organization can
make better points than your letter to this blog did!
Are those other interns as "long gone" as he is? Why does their
picture remain?
One thing I don't think you understand is that it was WRONG for
your organization to doctor the photo after his assault on the
woman. It doesn't change the fact he was an intern there along with
the others depicted in that photo! By doctoring it, you are
covering up the fact he interned there, and sending a message that
you'll rewrite history if it is a mean to your ends.
Some republicans just have no sense of morality, as is demonstrated
by your post. Saving your ass isn't always the RIGHT or CORRECT
thing to do. Take it like a man. After all, you didn't do anything
- he did. To put things in perspective you can understand (saving
your ass), put the original photo back up before your cover-up
becomes a bigger story than what you were trying to prevent.
Sheesh!
|9.16.04 @ 10:51PM|#
Uh, Dan, if you think law enforcement haven't got a duty to
protect those in their custody
Do I think that all law enforcement agents have an obligation, 1.2
seconds after they *begin* to grab a criminal, to immediately
devote all their attention to protecting her from any form of harm?
No.
wow, Dan, if they had the same magical fantasy, like you, to
think this woman posed any significant threat to Bush
whatsoever
I never claimed she was a threat to Bush; I claimed it was
reasonable for the Secret Service to think she might be. Squeaky
Fromme and Sara Jane Moore looked even more innocuous than this
woman did, and they each came within a hair of successfully
assassinating Gerald Ford. All the Secret Service knew about this
woman was that she hated Bush and had snuck in to the convention.
It is quite reasonable to assume that any such person is an
assassin until further investigation clears them from
suspicion.
And unless...you know....certain law enforcement officers
selectively enforce laws based on their own political beliefs. Not
that that ever happens in America. No sir
What political beliefs might those be? Are you suffering from the
delusion that the Secret Service is a Republican organization? The
only political belief widely held by the Secret Service is that
crazy people shouldn't try crazy shit in the presence of the people
the Secret Service is protecting.
|9.16.04 @ 10:55PM|#
Did you see the story about the Soldiers at Fort Carson,
Colorado being told to re-enlist or get sent to Iraq? (Pick one.)
Rocky Mountain News in Colorado at
http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3185596,00.html
- Chuck
|9.16.04 @ 10:56PM|#
Dave Stanley
CEO NTUF
Pete,
Well you really screwed it up this time. Why did you doctor that
photo? By doing that you've dragged us right into the middle of
this mess. And then to make things even worse, if that was
possible, you posted a message in this snakepit. What are you going
to do next, get Dan Rather to explain it?
Be in my office at 7:15 AM
Thank you.
Dave Stanley.
|9.16.04 @ 10:56PM|#
NTU sucks.
But...
What SHOULD they have done to the picture? Left him? Taken down the
whole thing? Cropped him, and left a note?
|9.16.04 @ 10:58PM|#
"The three of them grabbed a woman about whom they knew
exactly two things: (a) she hated Bush, and (b) she had snuck into
the convention."
Actually, if they knew either of those two things, they were
endowed with more magical psychic powers than either you or I can
possibly envision.
She was waving a sign that read "BUSH GLOBAL AIDS LIAR" and yelling
anti-Bush slogans. It doesn't take much clairvoyance to figure out
(a) and (b) from that.
|9.16.04 @ 11:03PM|#
Dave Stanley
CEO NTUF
To: "Joe"
What Sepp should have done was... nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Ignored the whole thing. Any enquiries should have been answered
thus:
1) We have no idea if the person in the video was Mr Robinson or
not.
2) Mr Robinson was an intern for a brief period of time which ended
long before the convention.
3) We have nothing further to say on the matter.
Thank you.
|9.16.04 @ 11:05PM|#
Dan, I fear you're becoming the joe of the right
I can't be bothered with worrying about the opinions of anyone
clueless enough to think I'm a member of "the right".
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