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Sock It To Me, Baby
Women's pro soccer is dead. Long live women's soccer. The WUSA has folded just scant days before the Women's World Cup will kickoff. Recall that the USA! USA! USA! victory in the 1999 event was to usher in the glory days of women's professional sport with soccer -- the world's game, i.e., something the U.S. has not dominated over the years -- leading the way.
Except that those involved in the WUSA -- players, execs, sponsors even -- did not understand that the women would have to be content to play in what essentially would be a minor league for a very long time, a decade perhaps, as the fan base grew. That didn't happen has the WUSA burned through $100 million in a pointless attempt at equality of largess with men's sports.
|9.16.03 @ 1:13AM|#
Indeed, it was often reported (via the mouth of former-USWNT
coach Tony DiCicco) that if the USWNT wanted to win a scrimmage,
they'd play a U-14 or 15 boys state select squad. If they wanted a
tough fight, they'd play a U-16 squad. If they wanted to lose and
learn some lessons and get tougher, they played a U-17 boys
side.
That formula hasn't really changed, and the results against said
competition bear that out.
PLC|9.16.03 @ 1:37AM|#
Concerned Citizen - you are living in a fantasy world if you
think the players from the WNBA could hang with elite high school
ball players. Lebron James is a high school player, keep in
mind.
Also, the Uconn Huskies are far and away the best women's college
basketball team, and every year they get their asses handed to them
by a ragtag bunch of gym rats before the first practice - just to
teach them some humility.
In high school, I played one-on-one against an All American female
basketball player and beat her 11-0. And I suck.
Jean Bart|9.16.03 @ 2:03AM|#
John,
Endurance wise the only atheletes who compare to fotbol players are
those athletes in the NBA.
The problem with comparing sports is that there is often very
little to compare.
|9.16.03 @ 2:35AM|#
As a former football (American), rugby and lacrosse player, all
I can say about this issue is...
Soccer? Gimme a fuckin' break.
|9.16.03 @ 3:08AM|#
Granted that the action comes in fits and starts, and there are official "timeouts" where play is stopped, but anyone who thinks that endurance (muscular or cardiovascular) is not a factor in a 60-minute NFL game has got to be joking. True, in soccer there are no "official" stoppages of play. Also true, in terms of total distance, a soccer player probably runs more than anyone but a long-distance road runner. But soccer also occurs in fits and starts, so the players do get breathers. In this case I refer, as I often do, to a Simpsons episode: "Center...passes it to the wing...now back to the center...over to the wing...holds it...holds it...holds it..."
Mark A.|9.16.03 @ 3:31AM|#
Brad S.,
Plus, in the NFL the players incur a much higher rate of, well,
virtually every conceivable type of injury. That's why those guys
wear armor.
I remember reading that different types of muscle fibres are good
for different levels of activity: there are muscle fibres
well-suited to endurance in sustained exertion and those that are
best suited to quick, high-powered bursts of strength and speed. I
suspect that tailbacks and wide receivers have more development of
the latter, while most basketball and fotbol players have better
development of the former.
|9.16.03 @ 3:32AM|#
Except, Brad, that's not at all how it works. At least in the
modern game.
True, there are "breathers" and stoppages, but much of that time it
comes down to a fast walk. (There are, of course, exceptions) Most
of the rest of the time it's a long stretch of
jog-sprint-jog-sprint pattern that really is a bitch to train
for.
At the top level, there are three subs max, no re-entry, so that
pattern has to be kept up constantly. Football, on the other hand,
is uber-specialized so that few players are constantly in the game,
let alone moving continuously. It's an entirely different game and
type of fitness.
One involves endurance and the other stamina (I used to know the
difference, physiologically speaking). One involves mostly
anaerobic exertion and power, the other involves a mix of primarily
aerobic and a good amount of anaerobic exertion. Both emphasize
different aspects of strength, power, balance, blah blah
blah.
Both are admirable athletic endeavors. 'Course I pretty much hate
football these days, but that's a complicated situation :)
Russ|9.16.03 @ 4:09AM|#
Quote from the movie Dogma
(1999):
Loki: Any moron with a pack of matches can set a fire. Raining down
sulphur is like an endurance trial man. Mass Genocide is the most
exhausting activity one can engage in, next to soccer.
Jean Bart|9.16.03 @ 4:11AM|#
BTW, given the nature of Brad's comments so far, I think it can be reasonably argued that he knows nothing about fotbol.
Russ|9.16.03 @ 4:18AM|#
Mark,
Don't dismiss the injury potential of soccer. While it doesn't
involve the repetitive punishment that comes with football, it's
far from a non-contact sport. Also, unlike football, protective
equiment is limited to shin-guards, a protective cup and a
mouthgard. Needless to say, I've seen some pretty gruesome injuries
and more than a few direct trips from the field to the emergency
room.
I'm on a break from the game after taking a pretty bad concussion
last April from landing on my head in a most ungraceful manner.
joe|9.16.03 @ 4:31AM|#
Sports based on individual skill, strategy, and teamwork are a
lot more interesting to watch than those based on brute strength.
Which is why women's tennis is a lot more fun than men's
tennis.
That, and the outfits.
|9.16.03 @ 4:41AM|#
joe - yeah, there is THAT... ;)
Jean Bart - true, I'm no soccer (or fotbol as you call it) expert.
I've tried to get into it every four years or so when the World Cup
rolls around for the last couple of decades. I appreciate the
talent and athleticism necessary to play the game, but I guess
there's not enough scoring for me. I mean, the last time I watched
a whole soccer game, I must admit that all 5 shots on goal had me
pretty excited. The rest of it was kind of boring.
Mark A.|9.16.03 @ 4:48AM|#
Russ,
I played a little soccer in high school, so I know there is that
potential. Being 6'5" and 240 lbs, I gave much better than I got,
so I guess I didn't remember it being that rugged.....
Mo|9.16.03 @ 4:56AM|#
Though I read somewhere, I believe it was an old SI or ESPN
article, that a lot of football injuries are due to the armor. You
don't see as many injuries in rugby or Australian rules football,
even though they just as physical, because there isn't the armor.
With added armor players are more willing to spear other players,
hit harder and in more dangerous ways. I don't know how true that
is or whether the increase in injuries have more to do with bigger
stronger guys, but it would explain the discrepancy between
football injuries and rugby injuries.
I love watching both football and soccer, but to say there's not
enough scoring in soccer compared to the NFL is a joke. Just make
every goal worth 7 and every off post shot worth 3 and you'll get
some 21-13 scores.
|9.16.03 @ 4:58AM|#
Brad, an exercise: take the number of touchdowns scored in a
given game (closest equivalent to a goal) and count them as '1'.
Let me know what you come up with.
Then, take the ~3 hours in a typical game and scale it to ~2. Then
tell me what happens.
Truth is, if you take even a little time to understand the game, it
has at least as many nuances outside of scoring as you see in a
typical football game. That's what excites soccer fans. They're
just very different kinds of nuances, and since you likely grew up
with the football ones ingrained, you don't need to make much
effort to understand them.
joe|9.16.03 @ 4:59AM|#
"...to determine what is the greatest country in the world:
Portugal...or Mexico."
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Mo|9.16.03 @ 4:59AM|#
Besides, everyone knows the most exhausting sport on earth is waterpolo. That is not a sport for the meek, especially those without endurance.
Russ|9.16.03 @ 5:25AM|#
Mark,
As a 5'10" 140 lb striker, I came out on the losing end of most
collisions with 6'5" 240 lb fullbacks. Fortunately, I could run
circles around the majority of them, allowing me to dodge most
hits. Unfortunately, evading a collision with the ground is
significantly more difficult.
ugly american|9.16.03 @ 6:44AM|#
The problem with soccer (well, one problem) as compared to
football is that there are no secondary things to acheive, short of
scoring a goal. In football, touchdowns might be rare, but you can
have a pretty damed exciting 30-yard run, or an interception, or
various other measurable things that could happen that don't put
points on the board. It gives fans something to watch between
touchdowns.
In baseball, there are plenty of base hits that don't score runs.
Same principle.
Maybe soccer has those things too, but damned if I can tell.
ugly american|9.16.03 @ 6:45AM|#
yeah, water polo's a great spectator sport, too. 99% of the action is underwater, and therefore invisible to the spectator.
JDM|9.16.03 @ 6:53AM|#
Soccer appealed to cavemen and proto-humans because it was
simple, requiring only a ball and a field. Then, because soccer was
boring, mankind invented newer, interesting, and fun sports with
cool gear like helmets, hoops, and bats.
I had heard that there were still throwbacks who enjoyed the game
in other far-off places, but I hadn't really thought until now that
any of them were capable of advanced activities like typing and
accessing the Internet.
Russ|9.16.03 @ 7:11AM|#
If I could propose on rule change for soccer, it would be to
scrap the "offside rule".
It would increase scoring, cut down on stoppages and spread out the
game instead of having a midfield cluttered with 20 players.
It would also be likely to increase the survival rate of 5'10", 140
lb strikers who would no longer get blindsided by 6'5", 240 lb
fullbacks while trying to run in one direction and having to look
the other way to see when the ball gets passed forward.
PLC|9.16.03 @ 7:24AM|#
From whence did this myth of the great endurance required in soccer arise? I've played soccer pretty much all my life, and I can assure you that 2 hours of basketball is one hell of a lot more draining than 2 hours of soccer. Soccer is most akin to race-walking. Basketball is a never-ending all-out sprint.
Russ|9.16.03 @ 7:35AM|#
The difference is that in a league game, you don't play 2 hours
of basketball. You play 48 minutes vs 90 minutes for soccer. Plus,
there are 5 guys on the bench who can substitute in and out for you
at will, so you'll probably play significanly less than the full
game. Also, the basketball playing surface is significantly
smaller. A regulation soccer field is 120 yds by 80 yds.
And if you play soccer at anything like "race-walking" pace then
you're going to be the last guy I pick for my team.
JDM|9.16.03 @ 7:37AM|#
If I could propose a rule change it would be to allow the players to use their hands. What's the point of cutting the most articulate part of the human body out of the action? It merely leads to clumsy spectacle, as opposed to the balletic artistry of more modern, American-style sports.
PLC|9.16.03 @ 7:45AM|#
Russ - let me put it to you this way: in probably 300 or 400 lifetime soccer matches, I have never once, not once, felt that I was not far and away the best athlete on the pitch. In the 2000 or so basketball games I've played (mostly pick-up), I've pretty much always been the worst athlete on the court. There really is no comparison in the physical demands required. Basketball is a much, much tougher game.
|9.16.03 @ 8:13AM|#
PLC, there's a different set of skills involved between the two.
Basketball is also a huge series of anaerobic spurts, which
produces an entirely different sort of tired.
Your anecdotal evidence is easily countered by my own: I was often
the best athlete on the basketball floor in high school, rarely
getting tired. On the soccer field, though 2nd team All-State, I
wasn't always the best on my own team. Whoop de do. We can all
prove exceptions to any "rule".
Further, both groups of skills helped me in the other sport
tremendously. But I always was in better overall condition over my
basketball playing mates because of the balance of types of
training I had to do for soccer.
I WILL grant you that 2 hours of straight PICK-UP basketball is an
ordeal. But no one plays that way in the organized realm. You could
play 2 hours of non-stop indoor soccer and get the same effect, or
play about 3 straight hours nonstop outside, unless you're one of
the lazy forwards or backs that likes to hide most of the game and
pick his moments.
Russ, have you thought of the unintended consequences of getting
rid of the offside rule? E-mail me.
|9.16.03 @ 8:17AM|#
ugly, there are loads of nuances and things that happen between goals. Soccer doesn't stop for them though. You actually have to pay a little bit of attention, but once you get the hang of it, it's second nature like picking up the stunting defensive lineman or some such.
|9.16.03 @ 9:09AM|#
Tiring? You want tiring? Get up before dawn one cold winter's
morn, join your mates at the local frozen pond, shovel the snow
off, and play pond-hockey until your mothers come to get you at
sundown. Pack a lunch.
Being a born wuss, I always brought my pads and goal-stick. No
linesmen to enforce "off-sides" resulted in our playing "first one
to 11." Not good for the old GAA let me tell you!
Kevin
World's Worst Pond Hockey Goalie. (retired)
Sam I Was|9.16.03 @ 9:14AM|#
Addressing several points:
Soccer is a beautiful game, with more than its share of the
"balletic artistry" attributed by a poster above to "modern
American sports." (It's certainly more artistic than American
football, which I appreciate for other reasons.)
It is easy to play, but it is difficult to play well.
And, yes, it's definitely a contact sport. I broke a guy's shin --
his SHIN -- during a high school game. A couple of bruises on your
forearm from a football game is nothing like seeing a guy squirming
on the ground with his leg angled in three directions. Nastiest
spectacle I've ever witnessed.
|9.16.03 @ 10:21AM|#
What a lot of people don't realize about pro sports is that, in
every major men's pro sport in the US, there have been at least
three generations of men who toiled largely in obscurity for
relatively low pay without the benefit of a players' association to
get the leagues to the stature that they enjoy today. Now, women
want to bypass all that and just magically be on an even footing
with men's sports. And that, my friends, just ain't gonna
happen.
Oh, and a couple other things. Title IX is bullshit, and Vijay
Singh was right, Annika Sorenstam had no business playing on the
men's PGA tour. Figured I'd throw those two grenades out there on a
Tuesday morning. :-)
Concerned Citizen|9.16.03 @ 10:25AM|#
It pains me to pile on, but the WNBA had already soaked up all
the "diversity" marcom budgets of major sponsors by leveraging
their preexisting NBA relationships. The WUSA was fighting for
crumbs.
And, could a majority of these women make an elite men's high
school soccer team?? Doubtful.
At least one could reasonably conclude that at least 50% of the
WNBA's players could do so.
Gregg|9.16.03 @ 10:26AM|#
It'll take time, with people with wisdom and perspective at the
wheel. But how often do you find _that_ in pro sports?
And as to the very tired argument that Annika didn't belong with
the boys on the PGA Tour: she played at the Colonial on a sponsor's
exemption and didn't take a spot away from any male player. She's
not trying to play regularly, it was a one-off thing.
|9.16.03 @ 10:36AM|#
Saw somebody's shin break in PRACTICE. It was shin-on-shin
contact and it broke the kid's tibia and fibula clean as can be
THROUGH his shin guards, which were also, needless to say,
trashed.
Also, a forward collided with the keeper when he came out for a
breakaway. Forward lost, big time. It was sickening. Kid nearly
died from a perforated liver and punctured lung. Ribs were shot all
to hell.
|9.16.03 @ 10:40AM|#
Another problem is that it's soccer. MLS has survived, but not because of interest of the average native American (not Native American). The European teams are viewing it as a minor league training ground for Americans who are just starting to play well enough to crack into the European leagues (sort of like an NFL Europe for European Football). Also, it gives them a vehicle for pushing their product on a relatively untapped audience (Man U's four city US tour this summer). Add to all of this the fact a large percentage of MLS fan base are immigrants from Central and South American. There just isn't as much interest in women's soccer outside of the US. Note how the US men continue to struggle to get to the top level in global play, but the US women are and have been at the peak.
|9.16.03 @ 10:53AM|#
chthus - Good points all. The only thing I would add is that the reason why US men's soccer struggles so much (although they did well in the last World Cup) is that the best male athletes in the US play American football, basketball, baseball, or hockey. Soccer basically gets the leftovers. That's not to say these guys aren't excellent athletes, but they're also not the true cream of the crop. On the other hand, for many young women, soccer is the #1 sport of choice. As a consequence, the US women's soccer team has a much better chance of getting the best female athletes that the US has to offer.
Brian|9.16.03 @ 11:09AM|#
Brad S--
Sorenstam wasn't playing on the "men's" tour, she was playing on
the PGA. Nothing in the PGA's rules says that the tour is for men
only.
The LPGA, on the other hand...
You're right about Title IX, though.
It seems to me that the parties interested in promoting women's
soccer would be better served by focusing their attention on Team
USA. I never watched the WUSA, but I have caught the national team
a few times...ususally on Telemundo...and it's pretty exciting
(provided that there's no American football on at the time).
Besides, I think that getting a small national audience interested
in a national team would be much easier than getting several tiny
regional audiences excited about "their" teams.
|9.16.03 @ 11:17AM|#
Gregg / Brian - the issue is not sponsorship money or lost opportunity for a marginal male on the PGA tour or the semantic issue of the apparently open PGA tour versus the clearly for women LPGA. The issue is the larger issue of fairness and double-standard. If Tiger and friends from the PGA are not allowed to cross the gender line and tear things up on the LPGA tour, then why is it okay for Annika to cross the other way?
Sam I Was|9.16.03 @ 11:25AM|#
One hundred million dollars? Good Lord.
I love soccer -- as a player and spectator -- but I'd never have
been interested in paying to watch a women's game.
If our ladies get to the final of the World Cup again, I'll watch
the game as I did last time -- rooting for them because they're
Americans, not because of any attraction to the play itself. Well,
except for the attraction to sports-bra victory celebrations, I
suppose.
|9.16.03 @ 11:38AM|#
Brad--
The best athletes not going into (men's)soccer is an argument left
over from decades ago. Tim Howard, the MetroStars goal keeper now
playing for Manchester United is probably the most "Athletic"
player in the EPL. Furthermore, the kind of athlete that excels at
the classic American sports wouldn't necessarily make it as a
soccer player, where upper body strength is matched with foot
speed, outstanding agility, balance, and the endurance of a
marathon runner. A player like '85 Chicago's The Fridge wouldn't
last 3 minutes in a soccer game -- nor would many, top ranked
players in the other Big Sports.
Part of the success of the US in the last World Cup is due to
better athletes staying with soccer.
Times are not only changing, they have changed.
|9.16.03 @ 11:40AM|#
chthus,
The portion of Central and South American immigrants as fans of MLS
is a lot smaller than you think. The vast, vast majority of the fan
base is still American-born (white, black and Hispanic), usually
suburban.
As for the failure of the WUSA, a big factor has to be that it was
mainly marketed as a WOMEN'S league first, as opposed to being
marketed as a SOCCER league. That turned off a large portion of
otherwise fiercly loyal (to the idea of the sport) soccer
fans.
It didn't help that they all but ignored (even spurned) the adult
male audience...you know, those with disposable income and, like it
or not, much greater interest in watching sport. It bordered on
hostility, in favor of shrieking 12-year old pony-tailed hooligans
whose tastes are as transient as an old-style railway hobo.
|9.16.03 @ 11:52AM|#
Brown - well, naturally, the Fridge is not suited for much
besides defensive line and maybe a hot dog eating contest. I was
thinking more along the lines of the lean wide reciver / defensive
back type of athlete (think Jerry Rice / Deion Sanders) or the
lean, agile basketball type of athlete (think Michael Jordan /
Allen Iverson). Had any of these guys started playing soccer from a
very, very young age (as they do in many parts of the world), any
of them could have been a heck of a soccer player. But, of course,
in America, the economic opportunities in (American) football and
basketball are tremendous, while the economic opportunities in
soccer are not as great. Also, the role models in those two sports
are plentiful, while the role models in soccer are not as many.
Plus, being a football or basketball star still gets you to the top
of the social hierarchy in junior high / high school in America,
while being a soccer phenom does not. The end result is that kids
in America generally start playing football and basketball at a
very young age as opposed to soccer, and as such develop tremendous
skills for those sports in lieu of soccer.
I think all of these arguments still hold today, albeit probably
not as much as they did a generation ago. And as you alluded to,
change is happening - American interest in soccer is increasing,
although I submit that the change process will continue to be much
slower than you suggest.
Russ|9.16.03 @ 12:07PM|#
Brian,
You're right about the PGA not being a "men's tour". Unlike the
LPGA, it's open to any qualifying player, without regard to
sex.
However, Anika was given an exemption to the qualification
standards due to her gender. If sex had not been taken into
consideration, she would have been just another of the scores of
candidates who didn't make the cut.
joe|9.16.03 @ 12:16PM|#
This league's games drew more fans than many minor league baseball teams. The problem was not a lack of interest in women's soccer, but a crummy business model of trying to get too big, too fast.
Brian|9.16.03 @ 12:24PM|#
Russ--
Sponsor's exemptions are given to men all the time (including the
tournament in which Sorenstam played). I believe Tiger's first pro
event was on a sponsor's exeption.
As I understand it, the purpose of giving exemptions is to give yet
unproven players with potential a chance to play without qualifying
first. In Tiger's case, that certainly paid off; in Anika's case,
not really. But to say she was given the exemption "because of her
gender" is to tell only part of the story.
John|9.16.03 @ 12:35PM|#
It looks like WUSA spent too much money and did not promote
correctly.
But what if the WUSA received several hundred million dollars in
Corporate Welfare like NFL, NBA, MLB & NHL teams do?
What if a WUSA team could blackmail stupid taxpayers into building
new stadiums every few years like teams in other sports can?
Oh yeah; seeing as the topic came up; what if Barry Bonds, Allen
Iverson & Jerry Rice had to play for 90 minutes with no
timeouts & no substitions?
Mo|9.16.03 @ 12:35PM|#
Brian, I'd argue that the sponsor's exemption DID pay off at the Colonial. Anika's presence turned the tourny into a media circus. The Colonial got way more coverage than it ever had, all because of Anika. Lots of extra free publicity for the sponsors. I bet some marketing director got a raise because of that idea.
Russ|9.16.03 @ 12:41PM|#
Having been a competitive soccer player myself (college level),
I've had a chance to play with a few women who were more than able
to keep up with the guys. However, in general, at every level, the
standard of play in women's soccer is significantly lower than the
men's game. When you focus on the elite level (professional leagues
and national teams), the disparity is even bigger.
To be successful, women's soccer needs more than just Mia Hamm's
stardom and Brandi Chastain's sports-bra.
Mo|9.17.03 @ 1:33AM|#
ua: Never said waterpolo was much of a spectator sport, just a
fucking exhausting sport.
Mark's little baseball story makes me glad the coach put me at
second base in baseball.
Sam I Was|9.17.03 @ 4:17AM|#
"Plodding gracelessness" -- what a phrase. Better suited as a
description of your stilted prose. Hope you don't fancy yourself as
a professional writer.
As for plodding and graceless in soccer... gimme a
break.
JDM|9.17.03 @ 4:52AM|#
I'm not sure how linking to a picture of a man falling flat on his back constitutes a refutation of a rational argument. In fact, in the picture you linked, the man appears to be playing soccer (notice the soccer ball.) Which, sadly, acts as anecdotal evidence supporting my position that soccer is a pastime for clumsy troglodytes, unable to compete in more rewarding competitive endeavors.
Sam I Was|9.17.03 @ 5:08AM|#
Yeah, Pele -- the "troglodyte" who "appears to be playing
soccer" in that photo -- sure was a crappy athlete.
"LAUSANNE, Switzerland (AP) -- The world's National Olympics
Committees have voted Brazilian soccer star Pele as No. 1 in their
top five Athletes of the Century even though he's the only one of
the five who didn't take part in the Olympics.
"Behind Pele come Muhammad Ali, who won the Olympic
light-heavyweight boxing title in 1960 before becoming a
heavyweight megastar as a pro, Carl Lewis, who won nine athletics
gold medals in four Games between 1984-96, basketball star Michael
Jordan, who was among the United States "Dream Team" gold medalists
in '92, and Mark Spitz, who won seven swimming titles at the '72
Games at Munich. "
JDM|9.17.03 @ 5:34AM|#
"Yeah, Pele -- the "troglodyte" who "appears to be playing
soccer" in that photo -- sure was a crappy athlete."
There. Now was it so hard to admit you were wrong?
Although, Pele himself actually was a pretty decent athlete who
took up soccer because there was simply nothing else available to
him. He used to practice with a grapefruit when he was a kid
because he was too poor to afford a real ball. It's a shame that
there were no old bushel baskets around for him to nail to a wall,
or we could have admired him for performing athletic feats not so
easily mistaken for falling on his ass.
JDM|9.17.03 @ 6:14AM|#
You must have gone to high school in the '80s or '90s, about the
time that the soccer players on campus started getting all the hot
chicks. Gone was the allure of the big, hairy football player
types, replaced by the smart, fresh-scrubbed soccer boys with the
good legs.
I know this was a hard cultural transition for some of you genuine
troglodytes to accept, but such is the way the, um, balls
bounce.
And the resentment, it seems, carries on well into adulthood...
Sam I Was|9.17.03 @ 6:14AM|#
You must have gone to high school in the '80s or '90s, about the
time that the soccer players on campus started getting all the hot
chicks. Gone was the allure of the big, hairy football player
types, replaced by the smart, fresh-scrubbed soccer boys with the
good legs.
I know this was a hard cultural transition for some of you genuine
troglodytes to accept, but such is the way the, um, balls
bounce.
And the resentment, it seems, carries on well into adulthood...
Sam I Was|9.17.03 @ 6:15AM|#
Wow, that was really weird.
For the record... I'm the one who said that. (Sam I Was.)
JDM|9.17.03 @ 6:38AM|#
I'm sure your desperate need to imply to an anonymous lunatic on
an Internet message board that you got lots of chicks in High
School has deep seated (though, in this case, plausible)
psychological foundations as well. But I'm not going to get into
that here. I will instead ponder the possibility that your dementia
has physical roots.
Maybe the repeated need to whack your braincase into a soccerball
(since the rules prevented you from doing something reasonable,
like catching it with your hands) has caused you to suffer boughts
of fantastic halucinations in which your imagined sexual prowess
seems relevant to the argument at hand, whatever the topic.
What we do know, as we see from the "mistaken" attribution of your
words above, is that it certainly causes you to imagine that you
are someone (specifically - me) who could put together a coherent
line of rational argumentation, once the ego predictably follows
the intellect into the oblivion of arguing the untenable position
that soccer is the domain of more than middling posers.
Sam I Was|9.17.03 @ 7:08AM|#
Now, that IS comedy. And I'm not being facetious like the poster
above. Funny stuff.
New research has theorized that hitting one's head against a soccer
ball may potentially cause brain injuries. While balls to the head
have not yet caused me to imagine I am actually JDM, they may be
responsible for my propensity to think of myself as having once
been Sam.
|9.17.03 @ 9:07AM|#
Why bother, Sam? Unless you're in it for the laughs. Obviously he's one of the funnier H&R posters, intentionally or not.
PLC|9.17.03 @ 11:22AM|#
Oh yeah, soccer is soooo dangerous. I've seen two soccer injuries that required an EMS trip to the hospital (a shattered leg and a broken arm). I've never gone to a youth football game where someone wasn't taken the hospital. And how many people are paralyzed or die playing soccer? Not many, if any, but it happens all the freakin' time in football.
|9.17.03 @ 11:42AM|#
Holy crap, PLC. What exactly are you trying (and failing
miserably) to prove? Are you angry for some reason?
You've NEVER gone to a youth football game where someone WASN'T
taken to the hospital? Could it be that you've been to...one or
two? Besides which, I've been to a number of said, and have NEVER
seen the meat wagon carry off a Junior Behemoth. Isn't that
interesting how anecdotal evidence means precisely dick?
Your closing is funny. All the time? Got numbers?
Russ|9.17.03 @ 12:16PM|#
While we're talking gruesome soccer injuries, here's my
contribution.
Playing indoor in Ontario some 5 years ago, I got to see my keeper
and an opposing striker converge on a loose ball. Keeper dives head
first just as striker lunges. There's a jolting meeting of knee and
face. Knocked out a few teeth, broke a couple of facial bones. I
never knew what a nose looked like inside-out. After the paramedics
carted him away, the tournament staff spent nearly 20 minutes
mopping and bleaching the blood off the gym floor. Made me glad I
stopped playing in goal when I was 12.
JDM|9.17.03 @ 12:41PM|#
There are more injuries in football, due to the violent nature
of the game. Any injuries on the soccer field are related to the
plodding gracelessness of the players.
Think about it: if you were a gifted athlete and had two choices,
to either play regular soccer or a version of soccer where you
could only move about by walking backwards on your knees, and were
only allowed to contact the ball with your ass, you'd choose
regular soccer.
Analagously, the modern super-athlete wants no part of soccer,
since (compared to the other sports available to him) the game
handicaps him by not allowing him the freedom to use his hands in
any way, greatly reducing the joy of movement which makes sports
worth playing.
Mark A.|9.17.03 @ 12:47PM|#
Most gruesome sports injury I can think of was when I saw a
batter hit a double off of the pitchers FACE. Pretty
horrible.......face was smashed all to hell and the ball bounded
down the right field line.
Baseball players are probably the least conditioned athletes, and
they probably get less than their share of sports injuries. On the
other hand, fielding a 200 MPH line drive while tumbling forward
off the mound has got to rank among the most difficult sports
feats...
ronald|10.7.03 @ 3:23AM|#
Soccer has more serious injuries, I have seen the statistics. Football is a dumb game made for people who can't use their body. JDM is a dreamer.
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