US SHOULD INVADE CANADA?

Not satisfied with a war in Afghanistan, a War on Terror, and an impending war with Iraq, my buddy, Jonah Goldberg, editor of National Review Online, wants the US to invade Canada. However, the warmongering editors at National Review should bear in mind that historically the Canadians have thrashed us every time we invaded them.

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  • ||

    You Stupid Yanks enter my country? Don't Even think about it. Everyone knows that the U.S. are a no-good evil bunch of red-necks who drink urine. My opinion and the Fact- The United States sucks. No longer deserves to be a country. You guys always see one resoultion to things. War. Sheesh get a life!!!

  • american reich||

    shut up u have no idea what u r talking about. yes we use war as a common solution for problems, u know y? IT GETS RESULTS. non violence takes years and years and war takes, if we invaded canada, 2 weeks tops. u r a fail of a country who needs to go to the NHL to play their own goddamn sport and u cant have curling cuz the germans would kick ur asses. ur army is weak and the first day of the invasion we would be in ur base killin ur doodz. u can try to stop us, but u will look more pathetic than the polish army in 1939 riding horse to battle against tanks. wait, my mistake, u would ride MOOSE and throw beavers at us.(dont make sick jokes damn canuck). the american empire will annex u faster than celine dion somethin or other no one listens or cares about her cuz shes a damn canuck. now go hide in a bombshelter and fuck urself because were rollin in!!!

  • ||

    DRINK!

  • Suki||

    +1

  • ||

    lol, we kicked ur ass at the war of 1812,u couldnt beat vietnam, what makes u think u can take Canada? and note u dumb yanks couldnt take the cold,

  • canuck hanger||

    WHOA WHOA WHOA. get a hold of yourself and read a fucking history book, preferably one not written in canada that tells lies so that you dont feel like a total failure at life. yuor history books probably talk about the canadian revolution. never happened, you asked politely for independance from britain who politely obliged. also, canadians didnt set foot in america, you only did well because you hid in your mountain caves hoping not to get killed and threw boulders at us. as for vietnam, it sadly has a larger population than canada and had tunnels and shit. not to mention they all look the same so yeah it was hard. we could steam roll canada in 2 weeks tops. you have no tunnels, now heavy weapons, no army really. no one would fight against us. they would be playing hockey. the day the stars and stripes fly over whatever the capital of canada is(i dont know because i dont give 2 shits), is the day americans will cheer and rejoice together regardless of race,religion,sex,political affiliation, etc. except for homos, they would by then be eradicated by the american government led by me and it will be the 4th REICH mutha fuckas!!!

  • Jon Polston||

    BULL CRAP!!! The US would roll over canada in a few days. We would have subs on 3 sides of the country launching nukes, the army and marines would be going across the border. The air force would come from all directions with stealth tech. and smart bombs. What makes you canooks think you stand a chance. The reason the us did not win veitnam is we were not alowed to win. We weren't alowed to take ground. The only reason we have't done more is all the hippie war protesters.

  • Pedro De Pacas||

    FUCK ALL YOU BITCH ASS CANADIANS! ALL OF YOU AIN'T NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF WANNABE AMERICANS WITH A FUCKING HAIRY BUSH QUEEN. FUCK YOU AND YOUR MAPPLE LEAVES. GODDAM! I WISH ALL OF YOU WERE BUTT FUCKED BY A MOOSE!

  • ||

    Winnah!

  • AzteK||

    hahahahahah Canada are a bunch of US wannabe's thats rich!

    Last time i checked, we didnt go around trying to blow shit up. We dont go around trying to kill people in the name of "Freedom" We dont go around changing the names of French Fries and French toast to Freedom fries or chips and Freedom toast!!!!

    You americans cry when shit happens to you, then you try to make wrong right again with a bomb. You have one angle, one clear sight, and that is a weapon. If you cant make it, BLOW IT UP! thats what makes everyone hate the US, you shits cant stop with the guns. Ill laugh one day when some country tries to invade USA, AND WINS!

  • canuck hanger||

    im not going to even dignify this blasphemy with a response. what has canada done, EVER. did canada end WWI? no. did canada end WWII? no. did canada act like their better than us because they lack the self esteem to walk down here and say it to our gov's face? yes!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!! you say canadas better, ive been there, wasnt impressed in the slightest. it was like michigan but it was full of america hating canadians,oh wait... do yourself a favor canada, shut up before you get in some deep shit. im sure the russians dont like you much either and you would be sandwhiched like the whores and pussies you really are. good night and wait for the sound of bombs dropping on your cities.

  • canuck hanger||

    shit that was a response

  • James Dee||

    Typical stupid American ego talk. Your attempts at isolating yourself from the rest of the world will be your own downfall. Your hostility towards us is nothing more then your deep seated jealousy that the Canadian way of life is what you only wish you could have, but realize that the majority of your population are ignorant, uneducated hicks blindly following the propaganda fed to you by CNN and your idiot president. Why don't you worry about cleaning up your own pathetic nation before you go attacking everyone elses. And no, Canadians have no interest whatsoever in being American, we'd rather sit back and watch you make asses of yourselves on the world stage.

  • canuck hanger||

    fuck off and realize what you just said. we dont want to be canadian. being canadian would mean still being britains bitch after declaring independance. and as for cleaning up, we attack countries so that you ungrateful faggots can live without fear of being invaded. i dont know why we bother. you know who kept you out of the grasp of the USSR? we did. you could be a smoldering pile of dead trees and radioactive moose carcasses after the fall of the USSR. weve protected you for god knows why what reasons ever since we stepped on to the world stage. oh and your money pisses me off, i had 2 nice american quarters and 1 shitty canadian quarter and i couldnt use it in the vending machine because thats how you retaliate, you use your useless money to piss us off. im not fat for using a vending machine, i was on my way to work and had nothing in my cupboard for breakfast so i thought id grab a snickers. i was severley dissapointed. fuck you canada, FUCK YOU.

  • Ryan||

    BUSH SOLD OUT AMERICA TO ISRAEL. SEPTEMBER 11 WAS A DIRECT RESULT OF US SUPPORT OF ISRAELI TERROR AGAINST THE PALESTINIANS!!! THE WAR AGAINST IRAQ WAS FOUGHT TO PROTECT ISRAEL. BUSH IS A WHORE OF THAT FAT FUCK ARIEL SHARON.

  • WakeUpCall||

    You are obviously uneducated about the specifics of international world opinion. If you truely believe that the United States invaded Iraq for the purpose of protecting Isreal, you are truely mistaken. If that was true, The US would have invaded palestine and ended that conflict years ago. At least have the intellect to say the US invaded the war for OIL...at least you would have some fact and world opinion on your side. But to say that the Iraq invasion was for the purpose of protecting Isreal, you are mistaken. Who's a bigger thorn in the side to Isreal: Iraq's 5 scud missles or the countless suicide bombers of Palestine. Get your facts straight kid. And you speak of september 11th, might i remind you that the majority of terrorists have been proven to pass innocently through the canadian borders. If the canadian border patrols would get off their horses once and a while, they might have caught the suspected international terrorists. Please now. Get the facts stright. The terrorist attacks of september 11th was a result of anti-american setiment in the middle east through the hardcore muslim communities. It is not hard to see, just turn on the tv (If your high enough in the social order to have 1) and you can see it. Even you unintelligent people who cry pointless comments yet have no factual backing behind them can see that isreal is not the major factor in the september 11th attacks, but it is a general overall hatred for capitalism and the internationalization that the united states stand for: equal oppertunities for EVERYONE. So have no worries, even you stupid canadians have a chance to immigrate here and start a new life. Before you run your mouth again, get real. Get the facts before you talk. You got a problem with it, send your mounties. We'll introduce you to our MOAB. :-)

  • WakeUpCall||

    And yes, the United States should invade Canada.

  • Michael||

    America and Canada are Both great countries. True, both countrys their foults, but no one is perfect.

  • Michael||

    Although, I like being a Canadian citizen, so I hope we dont get invaded. And I dont think we will, not becouse we cant be deafeted (We can be deafeted, America is the most powerful country in the world after all, and no, I aint dissing my country) I just think that I would couse more harm then good, Think about it, Its hard ruling a big country the size of canada. and if canada becomes part of america, It would be disastrius. (Dont diss me about my spelling, I'm only 16 after all)

    The president will have triple the work he has now, and assigning the government in all the previnces, (or he could turn them into states) would be a lot of work. It would also drain the money from the government, just trying to support the community, schools, buildings, hospitals and government buldings wuld cost milliones of dollars alone. let along othe projects and stuff the government needs.

  • canuck hanger||

    i like your attitude and you understand more than your faggot counterparts, i applaud thee

  • Matthew||

    The US is an example of greed run amuck. How can a country attempt to justify repeated invasions of other countries in the supposed name of "freedom" whe "freedom" does not even exist in the invader's land. Case in point: Healthcare. Sure it is a dammned expensive program but at least everyone in Canada is guarenteed access to a standard of health care that only the richest 10% of Americans can afford. It strikes me as sad that in a country that has such economic power as the US does, 30 million Americans are forced to live without any kind of health care coverage whatsoever, is that freedom? Like our obnoxious neighbours, we Canadians are a proud people. However, unlike Americans, our pride is not based on our ability to consume. In Canada, unlike in the States, monetary wealth is less important, while overall quality of life becomes more of a focus. We don't have the wide divide between the rich and the poor that exists in the states. Canada doesn't have the same amount of blatant and disgusting racism that plagues America (particularly the south). We didn't mandate segation until the latter 20th century. The US should have changed it's motto from "the land of the free" to the "land of the free white people". Wake up America! The world doesn't want to be like you. The Monroe doctorine is as much of a bad idea now as it was in the 1800's. If you asked many of the Canadian Ex-pats living in the US why they are there, the oerwhelming answer would have nothing to do with "freedom", and probably be more indicitave of a desire to escape the harsh winters up here. Our co-existance is like that of the nice small kid who hangs out with the schoolyard bully. Everyone likes the small kid because he is nice, IN SPITE of the fact that he hangs out with the loudmouthed arrogant bully. Stop bombing the fuck out of people just because you don't agree with them. That's why the people in the mideast hates you, that's why most of europe hates you and that's why Canada is pissed at you. It takes a hell of a lot more balls and intelligence to sit down with your enemy and talk out your problems than to automatically beat the crap out of them. It is highly uncivilized and you should be ashamed of yourselves (and your MORON president)!
    Sorry for the harsh language but I had to vent... we get way to much CNN up here and it is pissing me off.

  • canuck hanger||

    you talk to much, im not going to read your ramblings, ill just say this. YOUR A FUCKING RETARD

  • THE DUECHTIN||

    US should definatly invade canada and you people saying we lost the war of 1812 your wrong NOT ONE CANADIAN SOLDIER SET FOOT IN AMERICA they were all British and we beat the british at the battle of new orleans so lets invade canada screw briton we can take them on too fear us the day will come
    BLAME CANADA!!!

  • canuck hanger||

    THE AMERICAN REICH WILL PREVAIL ABOVE ALL!!!!!! SIEG HEIL!!!

  • Kyle||

    How bout the US and Canada unite, build a 500ft/meter wall all the way around mexico, flood it and call it Lake Tequila- thats the best solution.

  • BIG DICK||

    Listen you fucking canadians!
    You need to stop worrying about what the fuck happens here. Either your down with the USA or you stay the fuck out of our way. You fucking mayonaise eating MOTHER FUCKERS!

  • canuck hanger||

    im american and i put mayonaisse on my tuna sandwhiches asshole, though i agree with your main idea

  • ||

    Oh yeah, before I jam, you talk shit about Mexicans you just might wake up with a gun in your head and my dick in your bitch! Fuck you and the pussy you fell out of. Later pussys!

  • Bill - US||

    Hey,

    Let's all get along. Both countries have there faults and no one is perfect. The whole concept of invading Canada is never gonna happen which is why it is humorous for some people to explore and poke fun. Let's change it the other way around and let Canada invade the US. Or something else. Let's all drink beer and say hell with all the politics.

  • ||

    Canada has been ranked the number one country to live in by the united nations more than any other country in the world. The USA has never made it past 6th place. Canada's education is ranked 1st in the world, the USA's is ranked 4th. In 1812 Canadians burnt down your white house and most of washington, we won the only war we ever fought. Canada is projected to out preform every single other G8 nation this year economically speaking, including the USA. Canada is not hated world round like the USA is. You can only get so big. See how cockey you all are when your countries economy continues to fall, the world-wide hate for you builds, and no-one is there for you. Oh and by the way, if the USA ever tried to invade Canada, it would be suicide, remember we are better allies with Russia, China, Australia, Germany, France, Norway, the list goes on...I just don't have room to type the names of 150 countries.

  • canuck hanger||

    the UN lies to keep you all from hanging yourselves. who is ranked #1 military in the world? canada doesnt even get in the top 20. as for alliances. we have things to bribe countries with.hey russia you want the country georgia? stay out of our way and its yours. hey germany want to re-militarize? go ahead. to piss off britain for lolz, hey argentina want the falklands? heres a battleship to help out. hey france surrendering already wow!!! yo norway, get the fuck out or we'llrape ur shit. hey china want all of korea? KAZAAM!! its yours if you hold off australia. and all those small euro countries wont make a difference either. by the time they get there the stars and stripes will be raping the maple leaf and aproaching the shores of america with hostile intentions is just plain scuicide. think about the wants of other countries and how the most powerful nation will grant them what they want if they get out of our way

  • John||

    FUCK BUSH! Fuckin cracker-ass motherfucker! Don't touch Canada!

  • ||

    While the White House was burnt down in the war of 1812, i'm sorry to say it had nothing to do with Canada, or what I like to call it diet-USA. During the war of 1812, the British invaded the United States and marched into washington burning the White House. After a stalemate had been going on for a year, both countries decided it was time to end the war. However, before the treaty could be signed, Andrew Jackson ambushed the British in New Orleans, slaughtering them, and caused a surrender by the British. Notice how America-mini had nothing to do with it. Just because you were a British colony doesnt mean that you burnt down washington because England did. Thats like saying we kicked your ass in the American Revolution causes we beat England. So why dont you uncultured American wannabes take back Celine Deon and just shut up

  • Ha ha ha||

    Briton lost to a French poofter pirate. Thousand years can fly by and you wont live that one down.

  • ||

    This is ridiculous. Nobody on this forum can spell, how does that portray the intelligence of either side. Although the U.S. would easily take Canada one-on-one it would never happen, we are two peaceful neighbors who need to work together and not let our countries be run by fascist dictators or morons on the internet.

  • canuck hanger||

    you spelled carlos wrong

  • ||

    ok look at things like this , canada is loved throughout the world , known a peace keepers , known as a peaceful country .

    usa is known as a agressive war mongering country , almost hated , or looked upon in disgust by every country in the world .

    if the us. invaded canada every other country in the world would see this and say " holy shit, are we next ?"

    just because we don't have the military might RIGHT now , that doesn't mean we won't get it from countries like england , france ,germany ,sweden denmark , italy , russia , ukraine , poland , turkey, china , korea , india , japan ,australia , new zealand , various countries in africa , and south america , and the list grows .

    it would be a bloody war possibly destroying the planet , but the us taking over canada ?, NOT WHILE ONE CANADIAN IS STILL ALIVE will it happen .

    besides all we would have to do is send a cold front down into the states and freeze them out , then we'd skate in , hockey sticks in hand and beat all the americans into submision .

  • ashton||

    you do know japan australia various african nations germany and south all have american troops and jet fighters in them. and japan germany australia and south america would all back us up before you. face it everybody hates canada so what if we like war thats who we are.

  • canuck hanger||

    america could crush canada before the UN could react. refer to above reply to justin

  • ||

    canada is cool, the US is not, canada is big and cold, stupid abrams tanks would break down 30miles into canada and get in an guerilla war just like in iraq, GO IRAQ

  • canuck hanger||

    this isnt fucking WW2. our tanks would steamroll right through your... i'll just call them "defenses" but its probably not the right term

  • Bill||

    Now hold on here. I can't beleve any of this We are going to invade Canada Wowie. i leave the office and the whole world goes to hell we shood go after them mexicans to nobody likes them. haha

  • ||

    I should like to interject some comments respecting the many opinions I've already read on this page. Especially interesting were Matthew's comments regarding the United States; he referred to the latter as a school-yard bully who is accompanied by the much nicer child whom everyone likes.

    Perhaps Matthew and others would be fascinated to consider that even after several Canadians were killed by Americans in Afghanistan last year, Prime Minister Chretien has decided to send to that war-torn country even more Canadians. Now, shall we conclude that Canada's decision to send more forces there turns solely on pressure being exerted by the benighted bully to the south? Or should we rather conclude that Canada has its own economic and political interests which impel it to act accordingly.

    In addition, while Canada courageously stood firm against participating in the invasion of Iraq, how should one view the fact that two or three Canadian frigates were nonetheless sent post-haste
    to the Persian Gulf during the U.S. led invasion?
    Indeed, how should one perceive the fact that, notwithstanding noble pronouncements made by Chretien, et al, against prosecuting war in that region, Canada found it necessary to integrate officers and soldiers into U.S., British, and Australian forces fighting in that country?

    Should Canadians, or Americans for that matter, take too seriously or take at face value the clever rationalizations made by the Prime Minister that these forces were dispatched merely
    to guard against terrorism and the like? Forgive me, but I found such words less than convincing.

    Thus, if it can be said that Canada thus acted on the bais of its own interests, even if the U.S. did, in fact, exert pressure, then is it really fair to conclude that Canada is such a noble and peace-loving nation?

    In addition, perhaps Matthew might do well to read one of Will Ferguson's (Canadian author) books in which this gentleman describes some of the atrocities Canadian "peace-keeping" forces committed in Somalia.

    And Matthew might be edified to learn that during the Vietnam War not a few Canadians volunteered to fight alongside Americans in Southeast Asia.
    And more to the point, not a few Canadian firms made at least a billion dollars during the 1960's supplying the armed services of the United States.
    Therefore, I do think it rather fair to maintain that, while the U.S. committed the greater share of aggression in that part of the world, Canada cannot be said to have clean hands.

    I opposed the invasion of Iraq this last time, as I opposed the invasion of that country during the first Gulf War, as I know many of my compatriots did. I am sorry to disabuse Matthew and others who share his prejudices, but many here did protest, write letters, and, in general, make known their fervent displeasure with wrong-headed foreign policy.

    Finally, respecting health care. Any sensitive or thoughtful person certainly knows that too many
    Americans struggle without health insurance, and this condition is surely unconscionable. At a minimum, all those without health insurance should be provided an insurance plan which will allow such persons access to the best the system has to offer. And for those who already have insurance, the latter industry needs to be reformed so that it more adequately and fairly meets the needs of those using the present system.
    But I am also certain that any intelligent and objective Canadian will admit that there are too many Canadians who have to wait in terribly long queues in order to finally obtain life-saving operations. The latter fact does not mean that
    the health care system in Canada is inherently inferior to that found in the U.S. Indeed, each system enjoys weaknesses and strengths, and I rather think we would all do well to learn as much as we can without such rancour and exhausting discord.

    I hope with time, perhaps after the Bush Administration is succeeded by an Administration less bellicose and one more thoughtful, that relations between my country and Canada will improve and find brighter moments.

  • DickDirk||

    I don't hate Americans for the stupid things they say. I just don't trust them, as far as I can see them.

    Every American who comes on the internet to bash Canada has no real valid reason other than we are not American. They use little bits of Canadian life like the moose, and maple syrup, and "eh", and use these things against us, as if they were bad. "Stupid Canadians... with their maple syruping ways... they probably like to fuck mooses... Fuck Canada, eh?" And then their are a few of them who actually watch the news. (I don't know what is worse, American news or no news). And they think that Canada is against them, and that we are being selfish, and that we have no army, and that we don't even have the a mind of our own.

    A lot of them like to joke about how easy it would be to take us over, not even thinking about how someday in the future they may have to, just to have enough recources like oil, drinking water, lumber, farmland, fresh air and space, because we all know that they are using those things up at lightning speed.

    But You can't hate Americans for it. They just don't realise where they are heading yet. It hasn't sunk in. You can't hate them... But you can't trust him neither.

    That point was made perfectly clear when their military gave no punishment to the pilots who killed and wounded all of those Canadians on neutral ground because the two were hopped up on military adrenaline drugs. The families of those victims have not even gotten an an apology, an explanation, or even justice. In the eyes of Americans, we are not even considered human enough for an American to kill us and be tried for murder. I guess in the middle east it's open season on all Canadians.

    But atleast we showed them that we do have a mind of our own, when we refused to fight in their rampage on iraq. Today I am very glad that we avoided it because right now the shit is hitting the fan. There are no WMD's, more soldiers are dying now than they did during the major fighting, and Bush had to admit that he lied about Iraq trading Uranium in Africa. Can it be any worse? And now, Canada is in the unique position of offering Aid to the People of Iraq without them feeling like there are any strings attached. And there are none. Canada is just like that.

    What Americans fail to see is that we never had the intention of getting in the way of the war. If it was under U.N. guidelines, which meant there was absolute proof that Iraq posed a threat, we would have been gung ho. But we basically had the option of sticking with the voice of the free world, or going along with Bush when he says "Alright, fuck all of you. I don't need proof and I don't need any of you to win this war. We can do this all by ourselves. Fuck anyone who disagrees with us. France can eat shit. Come on Canada let's go... I said come on Canada!" Uh, no thanks.

    But since their was a war anyway. Canada did assist with Aid becaus we definitely didn't wan't Saddam to win. Infact we did more of our fare share then most of the coalition. We've just had enough experience now working with America to know that they don't have our best interests in mind, even though we always have theirs.

    Indeed American's can hardley be trusted anymore. But attacking us is too stupid, even for them. It was hard enough just for people to accept Bush's attack on Saddam. Who the Hell would support America if the government even proposed to attack us. That would be instant world war, everyone versus them. And even though a lot of twistd backwoods hillbilly's in America would get a kick out of that, I'm positive that their government would see that as a bad thing.

    So Canadians who feel they should have to stoop to the level of these people ease off. Don't hate them. They just don't know.

  • canuck hanger||

    as true as this is(lololololololol) i have a valid reason, WE JUST FLAT OUT DONT LIKE HOW GOD DAMN COCKY CANUCKS ARE

  • Mad Nuck||

    Actually, the major victory in 1812, like the yanks say, was not burning down the White house. That was done by crack Brits fresh off the field from kicking Napoleon's ass. No, it was holding off a vastly superior force three times its size for nearly two years, taking Detroit, and three other forts, and forcing the Americans back across their border, including the repelled invasion at Queenston Heights. And fyi, New Orleans was fought AFTER Madison had already capitulated, signed the papers of defeat, and returned to Washinton. He realized they couldn't keep a continental army for more than a few months further and the British had more troops on the way. Sorry, contrary to your inaccurate history books, you didn't win that one, guys.

  • kevo||

    THIS IS FOR THE CANADIAN BASTARD THAT CALLED US STUPID YANKS AND RED-NECKS THAT DRINK URINE. FIRST OF ALL UR FUCKIN CANADIAN SO U SHOULD KILL YOURSELF, SECOND IF U.S. AND CANADA WENT TO WAR IT WOULD BE PITIFUL WE WOULD KICK UR ASS IN 2 DAYS. THEN POPULATE CANADA WITH AMERICANS SO IT WILL BE WORTH SOMTHING. SO FUCK YOU. P.S. WE SHOULD JUST STICK ARE DICK'S IN CANADIANS CAUSE THERE ALL PUSSY'S

  • canada is almost as bad as fra||

    Just a few words to the queer from canada who said that they kicked the US's ass in the war of 1812. IT WAS 1812!, and you were also with the British in that war, so you didnt do it by yourself. Also, its fact that the richest man in Canada has more submarines than your F'in Navy. And also buddy, we have our freezing states. North and South Dakota, Alaska, etc...so im pretty sure we would last, but would you last in our deserts??? Did you even know we had deserts? Think about it, 150 degrees.

  • ||

    Ironicly Canada is in prety much the same position as a crazy old aunt loced in someones attic.

    You only get to stay if the family decides to put up with you. If you become too bothersome it might be necessary to send you off to the loony bin.

    As long as you don't seem to be a threat to yourself or others you can stay but as you do crazy crap like ban guns an legalize drugs remember that you exist only at our sufference.

    Your single wing of modern aircraft (US built) and four leakey subs will not give you much help no matter how well handeled. Your few soldiers can go hide in the woods, but given the economic dependace of Canada on the us they will eventually come out or die of old age. Your population clustered on the US border like ticks on a dogs back will be roped up and boxed for shipment off to Europe at a sppe only determined by the availibility of cattle trucks to carry them to a port. After that you guys can finally be the third rate euro trash you aspire to be.

    Speaking of Economics I guess the whole things migh be anticlimatic. Given that your economy is realy an extension of ours you are really only tax evaders. Perhaps the Treasury department will be along to collect soon.

  • canuck hanger||

    we are not an extension of your economy. you are all socialist pigs and we are capitalist super beings(LOLOOLOLOLOL)

  • zzTop||

    The entire world hates the USA. That's one fact you can't deny! - I dare you to name one country, who's population (atleast 51%) loves Americans?

    You also want to know why the world hates the USA?; RTFW!

  • canuck hanger||

    i can name 3. germany for keeping them (or at least half of them)non communist in the cold war, yes i know other countries helped but canada didnt. mexico, they always movin up in here and they never complain about us, until we deport them(lololololol). and the country that loves us the most.... the USA W00T!!!!! yes we love america want to fight about oh thats right you cant cuz yer fucking weak

  • .||

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  • canada suckz||

    When the hell has the Canadians ever stepped in to stop Dictators from killing or torturing innocent people, or stood up for their ally's like when we had over 9,000 people die in a fucking terrorist bombing, and all you can do is laugh. Thats pretty sad that 9,000 of your ally's died in a desperate attempt to lower our morale. Get a fucking life. Canadian people are just afraid to step in and help when they are needed, because they dont have enough force to attack. Just because your not in wars, doesnt give you the right to critisize ones who are in wars. Think about it fuckers.

  • canada suckz more than i thoug||

    The only reason you Canadians dont fight in wars is because you expect us to do the fighting for you. In other words *pussy's*. The only reason your military sucks ass is because you think you'll never have to use it. Well guess what, when your ass gets invaded, we will help you, and you'll think about it afterwords. You might not ever get invaded, but its still something to think about. We would help you, and you wouldnt help us. Sore asses. If you would stop taking it up the ass, you wouldnt be sore. Bitch.

  • ||

    Hey, the reason we're pussies is 'cause you motherfuckin' homos keep screwing us up the ass whenever it takes your fancy. And as anyone knows, only a real man can take it up the ass...you shitwipe bully.

  • canuck hanger||

    you sound like a faggot and my aryan programming tells me to eliminate you

  • ||

    you're all going to have to learn to like the taste of shit and ashes because that's all that'll be left by the time you're done blowing shit up, you monkey-spanks. Get it through your heads already: you haven't earned anyone's respect in this world, just their fear. Fear and respect aren't the same thing, but I wouldn't expect an entire country of ass-spelunking microencephalics to grasp that simple fact.

    fuck you and the uptight motherfuckin' cracker-ass bitches that founded your piece of shit corner of the world.

    bitch!

  • niglet||

    To Canada Suckz: if you're talking about September 11th I think it was closer to 3,000 people that died, not 9,000. "Thats pretty sad."

  • Sid9000||

    I think the US will consider invading Canada in 50 years or so. Once they have no drinking water left, killed all wildlife in Alaska and discover that the largest diamond mines in the world are in northern Canada, and that very large natural gas and oil reserves lie just off the coast of New Foundland. (In case some dumb ass american wonders) NF is on the east coast and not above Seatle. They will probably make some big propaganda campaign against us and some stupid redneck republican president will think it feasable to invade Canada and win. We may be simple Canadians but carefree and happy people would kick those fat, overweight americans to the ground so fast, they would probably have to be annexed by Brasil to recover. Oh and try to drink some regular beer you sissies..Live free. Let marijuana be legal and let those gay people be married.. Canada is the greatest country in the world.. Cold winters, good looking ladies and lotso money taken off our taxes for the good of all. Man those Americans are funny, A stupid people but funny

  • canuck hanger||

    wow. that was a REALLY FUNNY JOKE!!! everyone take what that guy said but in the opposite way and you will find the truth,except cold winters thats true

  • ||

    to canada suckz:

    "...When the hell has the Canadians ever stepped in to stop Dictators from killing or torturing innocent people..." Do we really need to remind you that Saddam Hussein been financed by US gvt to prevent Iran from gaining to much power in middle east. Do we really need to remind you that Ossama been also financed by US to free his little piece of desert. I think the saying should be: When the hell will USA stop creating dictators they can't control at all.

    As for the "dictator" part of your comment, USA did nothin against Polpot, Pinochet, Peron, Franco, Suharto and so on... USA did nothing in Rwanda. USA did nothing in Sierra Leone. Canada didn't do anything at all either, reason being: no one gives a fuck about people dying in dirt poor country. Yeah, you like your Nike shoes don't you... well viva el dictatore that offers you cheap labor (children that is) to manufactured them... So leave us alone with the so called "call for freedom and democracy". Yes the oil and yes Israel that's it!

    Now for the invasion: come along! It wont be an invasion, we'll invite you! Our door is wide open, open for business that is! We eat your delicious Californian peaches, we listen to your fantastic music, we buy your low-class pop-culture by-products... want do you want more?? You already have our money, so put you guns down and do what you do best: sell us something, sell the world something! The day Osama and Castro will be jogging with Nike shoes (manufactured by some childrens that we don't give a flying fuck about) while drinking a refreshing Coke and reading Playboy, your war will be won, bullet-free!!!

    Meanwhile, I'll stay in my peacefull country having a great time enjoying freedom and health! Feel free to come by for a beer!

  • ||

    I recently came across these posts and would like to put in my two worthless cents. I love Canada. I love my country with great passion and I readily admit that I probably have a biased view. A bias that has been steadidly swelling since I was seven or eight. Over the years as I've been trying to learn 'the facts' about things like the World Wars and Vietnam, the intricate workings of global trade and economy, and other affairs most of my elders generally thought someone my age shouldn't be concerned with; a small seed of doubt and suspicion was planted. In the past year, that little seed has blossomed into a metaphorical amazon basin of raw hatred. Imagine my suprise when I'm looking on the net for info about the war in Iraq when I find that some utter jackass is tossing around the idea of coming on my doorstep and causing trouble for reasons that would amuse me if I didn't think they were so pathetically sad. Reasons like "Those homo-loving moosefuckers have never gotton off their asses to fight dictators." While I'm not clear on whether or not we've taken any down, I'm pretty damn sure the Canadian government hasn't put any of those "sadistic-warmongering-murder-machines" in power either. The United States however, has an unbeatable track record for making rather unsavory friends, giving them something that doesn't really belong to them, (Entire countries, with 'unofficial' military aid such as training and hardware.) Making the whole ordeal look heroic for both of them, and subsequently attempting to have those friends assassinated after a few years of not only letting them run amuk but actually being one of the factors keeping them in power. Dare me to give you an example. I know you all hate me for prattling on in written form, so I'll leave it at that for now. But be warned, I've got TEN YEARS of venting to do.

  • Horton Hearing||

    My first cogent memory of the United States was seeing the footage from the Kent State Massacre. I've never been able to bring myself to trust the Military, the Police, or the political Right - 'Religious' or otherwise, of either the United States OR Canada.

    Who has the right to aggrieve his neighbour? No one. Who has the right to prevent their fellows from realizing their full human potential? Nobody. Who has the right to murder, displace, and occupy peoples, cultures, and nations? No one at all. No one, that is, except you self-appointed, sanctimonious, hypocritical and thoroughly CORRUPT (not to mention corrupt-ING) so-called "Policemen of the World"- and in case you've forgotten your own leaders' glib soundbytes, that's YOU I'm talking about, America- you with your greasy lips wrapped around that deep-fried lump of shit you know will eventually kill you but tastes too good not to eat...except that's not a burger, that's oil. And those aren't clogged arteries, they're clogged highways. And those people you see upset with you in the streets of cities all around the world aren't just photons splashing against a mesh screen inside a picture tube, they're your fellow human beings. Remember them? Remember that just as much as you want to live your life free from oppression and tyranny, so do they? Remember who's been responsible for killing them lately? Who's been telling them how to govern themselves? Who's been brazenly profiteering from widespread human suffering?

    I can't write anymore. You sicken me to such an extent that to exert any further energy by attempting to transcribe the depths of my loathing for you, your people, your supposed values, and your true natures would leave me steeped in soul-blackening negativity. Such is your effect upon me, America. Such is your effect on us all. Remember that the next time you flout the Rule of Law for the sake of political expedience. The next time you occupy a nation and seize their resources, The next time you gaze indifferently at the flickering images of human faces, seething with hatred and of flags burning in the breeze...

  • ||

    Why anyone one would want to live in the us is beyond me.Iam with the canadians the united states for yanks you wrelcome to it.American freedom and liberty are a joke bush is pupet leader on strings.40 million americans have no health care WoW what a forward looking country ha!
    Americans stay at home the rest of world can get on fine without you

  • canuck hanger||

    the world would fall into chaos without america, but if canada just vanished nothing would change and noone would give 2 shits

  • War Junkey||

    For the guys who bitched about 'Nam and actually believed the US won 1812, I pray to every deity in every religion imaginable that you are not an example of the educational standard. As for Vietnam, the US soldiers weren't allowed to take ground FOR THEMSELVES. The South Vietnemese, though for the most part appreciative of the assistance, were somewhat uncomfortable about handing control of the divided country over to forieners. You remember, the guys who actually belonged in that war? Or did you even realize the circumstances behind the whole mess? I haven't seen Canadian veterans professing the same complaints with such veracity. In fact, they seem pretty good natured about being asked to come along with the US to interfere in a civil war that got botched. Or did you also forget that the US asked Canada for help? Regarding 1812, HELL YES Canadians set foot on American soil! In the first two weeks of the surprise attack a lot of ground was taken, at the end of those two weeks word finally got out that there was an invasion and angry hunters, farmers, bakers, and yes our time-honored redwood-sized lumberjacks took up anything they could get their hands on and drove US forces, at that time a force well over four times what was organized on their part, past the borders and back into the United states with a little bit of land to show for it within THREE DAYS! Even when the British came to help, most of Canada's fighting forces were irregulars. Less than twenty percent were actual soldiers. The US got embarassingly trounced. After the Indian tribes joined the effort on Canada's side, (Changing the percentage of actual soldiers to ten, while still keeping the total forces less than half of that of the United States and I'd like to note the US had far more long ranged weapons throughout the war,) the humilliating defeats turned into ugly massacres. What did the States do to piss them off THAT bad anyway? Farmers, woodsmen, Indians who were in Canada before anyone else, and only a relatively tiny fraction of soldiers who weren't all sent in from Britain. And you still think there weren't any Canadians doing any maiming? On a side note only the US could make a whole song about the only large land battle won in a war it had already surrendered in. And I don't want to imagine what kind of person sees it as proof of victory. Or whatever school teacher told them so.

  • Uncle Sam||

    you canadiens are all going to hell your goverment is weak and twisted God will punish you and we will be your punishment you pack of homo fuckers i sinserely hope to see the day when all of you commie fags are locked up as friends of terrorism and your flags will be used as toilet paper you dope smoeking queers NO ONE SHITS ON U.S. we proved it to the english to the mexicans the japs the germans russia korea taliban and now saddam hussain so SHUT THE FUCK UP you whiney little faggots you owe us for EVERYTHING you have your not even a real country

  • I could be your kid.||

    I've noticed... Aside from a tendancy to skip right past what anyone else says and into the childish insults you people just can't seem to realize when you've done something to piss someone off. If someone's got a problem with you it's not because you're an arrogant, self-righteous, sanctimonious prick who makes thinly veiled threats and openly mocks one person or another, oh no heaven forbid you see in a mirror what vile trash you can be... It's because the person trying to shove a little humility down your throat is some kind of freak. It's not because we really hate having our dignity stepped all over as a matter of conversation. It's because we're jealous. It's because we can't see that the sun revolves around you while somehow shining out your perfect, pampered little ass. I'm a teenager. How old are the other people making these posts? This is the same horseshit I put up in my classrooms that other people look down on and chalk up to immaturity and testosterone. I've been the odd one out. I am the definition of the odd one out. I've broken down politics and the justification of this hell-accursed war into what it really is: The high school bully just got hit by one of the little kids so he has to grab some poor bastard, stick a bat in his hands, and get him to help with the 'completly justified' revenge. It doesn't matter who gets hit from here on in, you got dissed. Somebody needs to pay and anyone who gets in the way is too fucked to know what the real deal is. It's not about moral, ethical, legal, political, security, or preventative reasoning. It's one big pissing match with everyone that's different. No right, a lot of wrong, and everyone thinking that you could have handled it their way with better results. Shut the hell up and take a good hard look at yourself. Then take a look at the kid who got the black eye when he decided didn't like being harrassed every day. You're not the only victim and you don't know jack about what the real problem is. Take it from someone who knows something about suffering while having nothing to complain about. If it doesn't make sense to you I'd rather you at least spell the insults right. I hope I don't have a family. I couldn't take it if this is the world they grow up in.

  • ||

    I think the US should leave all of the world and watch it go to hell. Watch all their economy's disintegrate and watch worldwide war and anarchy take place. And then when everything is destroyed the US will come out and become the USW or the United States of the World.

    Let's look at what would happen if the US stopped using its might to help everyone out. Israel would kill all the palestinions(sp?). Geonocide all over Africa, China destorying and taking back Tiawan, North Korea having a major war in Asia. U.N. disintegrating. Worldwide depression. The Middle East destroying Western Euorope. Most of South America killing each other over drugs.

    Now who would want that to happen? No one!

    The UN just wants to have the US so they can use us to go into hot areas and use our military so they won't get hurt!

    So I think the US should take over Canada, Mexico and all of the Carribien and they'll all be happy!

  • God Bless America & Our Comman||

    It's called "Manifest Destiny". You Canadians should just get used to it- we will eventually own you lock, stock and barrel. The same is true for Mexico.
    Fact is, we already "own" you economically. But as we take our rightful place as World leaders, you will come to see that there is no option other than to follow our lead. To refuse fealty is to invite our displeasure- and if you thought that slapping a ban on your beef was punitive, "you ain't seen nothing yet".
    We have it in our power right now to lay utter waste to your economy- so don't EVER think about pissing us off, or you'll face dire consequences.

  • ||

    Has anyone noticed that rather than defend themselves against many alligations of tyranny, corruption, warmongering, and unrestrained assholism, the Americans posting on this forum just spew out threats, swear blind that everyone owes them for something or other, and declare eventual ownership of the world?

  • canuck hanger||

    i resent that i defend my country on this forum with facts, and threats because its really funny to piss off whiny canadians who think their smart because they went to AMERICA for college

  • Kyle||

    Come up North. Dare you. If the U.S. wants to attack Canada, I say bring it on. No one knows their own country better than the citizens that live in it themselves. Sure we are outpowered in numbers and technology, that's no secret. But that doesn't mean nothing when u don't know how to go about in the terrain and the environment you are sitting in. A few people have mentioned the hatred just about EVERY country has towards the United States. Canada is most definetly one of those countries. There would be a numerous amount of countries that would be more than willing to get a piece of the States, I would too.

  • canuck hanger||

    we dont need to set foot in canada, we have a bomb powerful enough to level at least half a major city and it wont start a nuclear war cuz its not a nuke. i give you the M.O.A.B. wiki it if you dont believe me.

  • War Junkey||

    On top of the home court advantage we'll know most of your moves before you make them. The tactics used not only in your military, but the very meat of all army training world wide is based on tactics developed at Vimy Ridge in WWI. Before screaming "WE WON THAT WAR YOU PUSSIES," take into account that the battle took place looong before you opportunists stopped selling guns and started using them. (The US only joined up in the last year of the war, having run out of excuses to keep out of it.) The battle was fought entirely by Canadian soldiers under Arthur Currie, whose strategies were unheard of at the time but met with almost frightening success. Also before US involvement, Canadian soldiers made impressive contributions to the battles of Passchendale, Ypres, and the Somme. We proved our prowess yet again during WWII (Again, don't even think about saying you did all the work,) during the taking of a German fortress thought impregnable after three failed attempts by British and US divisions. In the end, two men survived the completly insane approach, but captured the fortress with 76 POW'S. I think we'll do just fine outsmarting the likes of you.

    Note: I don't really like to brag about war, it's a horrible thing. I'm thankful Canadian policy is to avoid it, but I hate how my country's pride is being taken away by people who think their trigger happy GI'S who can't tell a friendly platoon doing excersises from terrorist guerillas shooting at them are the only decent army in the world. Canada may not have the best funding or nukes deployed around the world like another militaristic nation, but we've proved ourselves against mind-boggling odds and still try to remain civil about it afterwards.

    Another note: I'm REALLY pissed that those idiots are getting involountary manslaughter instead of a damned court-martial! If the situation were reversed we'd never hear the end of it from Bush.

    In closing: While I'm not promoting a war between Canada and the US... Try it, and I personally will see to it that it's your funeral pal.

  • canuck hanger||

    you are sadly mistaken if you think you can stand against the power and the technology and the bravery of the us military. oh we did do all the work in WWII. we fought on 2 fucking fronts. we had soilders come with psycological problems from fighting japan, whos WWII military could probably beat your modern one. oh yeah, like i said above to the other guy, M.O.A.B.

  • Deep Thought||

    We should do the same thing Israel is doing. If Canada can't be trusted to safeguard its boarders, we should build a security perimeter fence to keep the so-called 'Canadians' ie Arab terrorists posing as Canadians out of our Country. Canada is a prepetual weak link and we should seriosly think about our homeland security.

    Maybe Canada should be taken over but not because of some war 200 years ago, but because they willfully refuse to do their part to protect north America. Then we could finally be secure in our own country.

    Canada is like the fable of the grasshopper and the ant. While Rome burns, they just fiddle. They are so far off from reality they actually have a 'liberal' party - they even have communists in their house of representatives! We shouldnt allow communism to flurish in a western democracy, thats what the Cold war era was all about, stamping out communism to keep us free - how can our neighbors even allow communists, terrorists, etc. in these times where we must all remain vigilant against possible threats?

  • proudtobeanamerican||

    Hmmm...In response to this comment (and all others from both sides)...

    "The entire world hates the USA. That's one fact you can't deny! - I dare you to name one country, who's population (atleast 51%) loves Americans?"

    Posted by: zzTop on July 20, 2003 11:02 AM

    ...You dare me to name one country who's population loves America?...I will...America...

    I am an American and am proud of it. I don't really mind Canada but I can't say I'd want to live anywhere but the good ol' USA. I'll put it to you outright...I don't exactly like all the things being said about September 11th....I lost two loved ones in the attacks...I don't know what they thought about Canada...but I do know that they LOVED America...all counries are made of people...people aren't perfect...no country is...JUST--b4 you say anything--MAKE SURE YOU AT LEAST SEEM TO BE INTELLIGENT...oh, and Canadians died in the Twin Towers also...IF UR COUTNRY IS AS GREAT AS U SAY IT IS, CANT YOU STAND WITH UR OWN NEIGHBOR IN ITS DARKEST HOUR?...if Canada needed it (and it's already happened), AMERICA would help them!...and wherever i saw something about the UN voting Canada as no. 1 place to live: well Canada is very nice, I'm sure...but I think the UN's judements in the past have also proved a bit shaky (and no UN member will EVER vote US as no. 1 or whatever other irrelevent thing is said because they, too, have some personal vendetta against the US)...BECAUSE THEY KNOW WE DONT NEED THEM...not that it matters because unless ur in a place like Iraq or Palestine (and Im also Jewish and am amazed at all of ur utter ignorance having to do with the Israeli-Palestinean Conflict), you should luv and be proud of any country u live in...if America had taken the side of the Arabs, they would have been criticsized for that...I dont hate ANYONE (especially not Muslims, we believe in a common ancestor i.e. Abraham)...yes, most coutnries do hate us, but most of the time, those in power are hated the most...yeah we are spendthrifts and maybe a little more in the spotlight...but do you know the money we have put out in humanitarian aide? I don't care about Canada's economy, or schools, or "peace" (might I remind you of the Quebec troubles and separatist movements), or not wanting to get involved with anything and then feeling bad when they get left out and criticsized...or maple leaves or eagles and stars...if we are gonna win any war, going to bring any peace, going to accomplish anything as a "force for good" we need to do it together...dont criticize us when you do nothing to help (yes, yes, you sent troops and THANK YOU and G-D BE WITH THEM! but it was obviously done with a grudge) and i dont mean to sound like a kindergarden movie narrator or something but its true about the whole working together thing (AND NOT JUST CANADA)...We'll stop making fun of ur coutnry...YOU stop sticking ur noses so high up in the clouds (that means being proud or big-headed for anyone who is ignorant of the phrase) that you dont see anything going on around you in the world (AND THAT GOES FOR A COUPLE OTHER COUTNRIES)...if America did not delegate (and, yes!, most of the time we do pull through!) throughout the world, we'd all be in something a little worse than what we are now and so would Canada...do it for yourselves...Canada is close enough to America that if something big does happen here...its gonna effect you also...dont you think both sides are burning bridges just a little too soon?...

    (Oh, and I would hardly consider myself a redneck, eh...)

  • Deeper Thought and Reflections||

    You can't write a peace sign with blood and corpses. Lighting your darkest with bomb blasts doesn't seem very rightous. I like many other people hate the US, (not freedom, not democracy, not just the capitalist system, the US. People hate you. The narcisistic claims of being a beacon of virtues in the corrupt world really tends to tick people off when they consider how often the US has stepped on other countries.) but wouldn't stop myself from listening to reason just because of a grudge. I just don't hear a whole lot of reason. Here's the string of events as I recall. The towers get destroyed. A hideous event, yes. Massive finger pointing and paranoia. To be expected. Osama gets the blame. Okay, got a suspect. Attack Osama's stomping grounds? Sidesteps the idea of court, but it does look like a private citizens act of war so fine. Have an aircraft carrier underway before you even present proof? Well, that's a little barbaric. But you said you've got it, we helped you. More of our soldiers died in friendly fire than in combat. Ridiculous and as said in an earlier post, we'd never hear the end of it if the situation were reversed. War over, country in ruins. Moving on to obliterate next suspect. Wtf? This is where we stop and ask what's going on. Suddenly you guys want to start a war and indescriminatly slaughter everyone that ever had a grudge with you. Say again, wtf? Let's pretend everyone didn't know who provided Saddam with guns and capitol. Why attack him? You say he's got ties with Osama. They've been trying to kill eachother for years, your credibility declines. He's a tyrant, granted. But the same thing can be said about Bush. Locally he runs a democratic government, but he tries to extend his reach to other countries with open or very thinly veiled threats in a style nearly identical to a fascist regime. Putting the US above the needs and laws of all others. Back to Hussein. So you think he's got WMD's? Can't be anything compared to yours. You claim a right to defend yourselves aggressively, and defend with aggression. You say submit to inspection or it's war. Eventually he does. Search goes slowly and turns up nothing. Not good enough for you. You swear you've got proof of weapons and sale of uranium. It's too classified to be specific. You offer 'appeasement' of a sort. "Step down, abandon your fortune, leave the country, and we won't kill you, but we'll watch you like a hawk." That's a little twisted. Then it was "Step down, go into exile, you can keep some money and move in with anyone who'll have you." Still nothing like an incentive and more of a threat. He doesn't go for it. You want war, despite lack of proof of your claims, in fact, it looks like they did some disarming a while back. The UN doesn't bite, because of international law. You sidestep the law and attack. Wtf? Beacon of freedom and democracy huh? We officially want out. We get flamed. After a lot of complaining, we send nonmilitary support. We get flamed for that, being called hippocrites. Make up yer friggin mind. Saddam's ousted, his sons were cornered and killed. You showed pictures of their mutilated corpses like barbarians sticking heads on pikes for trophies. (Sorry about the insulting comparison, but hey, it's true. It's damn true.) Country in ruins. Moving on again. But wait! Where's the WMD's? All in Bush's mind. He lied about the proof. Not wrong, lied. L..I..E..D. So now the excuse is, "He was a tyrant and Iraq needed a regime change." Again, same could be said about Bush, and warring for regime change is illegal. It was a law you guys really supported back when you were pointing fingers and comparing missle sizes with the Soviet Union. Of course, I can't say you supported it with a straight face. You guys financed the overthrow of governments as well as providing training and hardware, "to defend the US from commies." you said. But that all goes back to Hussein, and I said I'd pretend I didn't know about that. Now it's anyone's guess who's next on the hit parade. Syria looks like a prime target. North Korea is in the headlights too. But of course, Jr. might attack Cuba cause he wants to show Daddy who's president. Okay, that was a mouthful. And that last crack may seem condescending. But honestly, that's how we look at you. While you see the world as not co-operating in the removal of murderous liars out of a grudge, we see you as murderous liars attacking everyone out of a grudge. You're trying to police the world, and the world is filing for brutality. Something to reflect on.

  • Just another Pilgrim in God's ||

    All you people seem to DO is whine and 'reflect on' things. You will never be the no. 1 place in the world that's reserved for God's country. Praise Jesus!

    This war is a Holy one, pitting dark idolatrous forces against our modern-day Crusaders. But God is on the side of good and God willing, we will triumph! You mealy-mouthed, shiftless bunch of ingrates ought to be thrown to the wolves.

  • An American with a simple idea||

    First let me say that a war between the US and Canada will never happen. And if buy the grace of the devil it did god help the US and Canada. I will not begin to say I now all the reasons for the US fighting a war in Iraq. But I am not naive enough to believe it is all for the benefit of the Iraq people. Nor was it ever claimed that it was. Bush I think did and will continue to act in a manner that will piss of many people and countries. Even as an American I fined his action to be wrong in the manner they were done. I do not however think that the killing of Canadian soldiers is a reason for war or conflict. While what happened was a tragedy it was an accident. I do not wish to down grad the life�s that where lost and if I have I am sorry but it was exactly that an accident. I am not a bleeding hart that believes that the world can be fixed if we let the bad guys go and treat the murderers with respect. I do however believe that events should be judged on intent, not on result. True it is hard to sometimes no the intent but sometimes its not.
    At the same time I think that we as a people the US, and Canada, alike. Along with any other country, state, man, women and child who has even the slightest bit of humanity in them, should get the people who cause pain and suffering as in September 11 and all other tragedy�s where people are assaulted by an act of hatred and total lack of compassion. No mater what geographical location they are from. All people should be aligned against these assaults. Of course you shouldn't kill the house keepper to get to the master of the house either. I feel this is what bush has started tourds. Like I said before I do not believe in a utopia but I do believe in life�s humanities. If we can get past all the self involved pride of what country is better then the other we can then put the pettiness aside and address the real issues. So to the people of the US I say this grow up and educate yourself on what is happening so you can fix it instead of makeing it worse with blind pride and unquestioned loyaltys. And to Canada and all other countries and people, life is full of things we don�t like but if we don�t strive to make them better and understand them then we have no right to sit back and judge them with disgust.This is my atemped to make them better.


    P.S. I feel all people are worth helping but not all people are willing to be helped.

  • Reflections||

    See, there's an attempt at reason now. A pretty good one. American with a simple idea, I appreciate your attempts to diffuse and bring us together. Really. Though I refer to my point that in trying for retribution for a heinous act, the US has repeated the act several times over again without trial and only harsh judgment, and that is why we judge harshly ourselves. It is human nature to judge, but passing judgement is another thing entirely. I wouldn't say let the guilty redeem themselves, the 'bleeding heart' approach. But I'd like to reiterate; don't kid yourselves into believing that it isn't murder. That the crimes of others can justify the mind numbing horrors that that this war has seen. On a side note, the deaths of those soldiers isn't what bothered me, the blase way it was treated is what seemed a shot in the eye. The handling of the incident gave the impression that the lives of Americans were the only thing that mattered amidst the blood of those who came from around the globe to fight in that war.

    As for you Pilgrim, I suppose you're one of those people who thinks that God loves you, and hates everyone else? Do you pray for cleansing fires to rain from the heavens? Do you wish the erradication of the 'mud races' to make way for the chosen? This may very well be the same thing preached to the people you wish killed, with minor modification. I'm ashamed of myself for dignifying your whiny attempt at religious justification with a response. I do not wish fire and plague upon you.

  • An American with a simple idea||

    (Reflections)(And anyone else reading)
    I agree with you in the Fact that the US (bush) has gone beyond what was necessary for bringing the terrorist to justice. (Not retribution) I think that people shouldn�t look at a country buy its media. As we all now media is (though it would deny) its own political party. This is not a trait only for The US but for every country. If I listened to the British news about a conflict involving US and Britain, and soldiers died from both sides I would not be offended buy the way the British covered the death of there soldiers as apposed to ours. The reason being I know that the news is going to cover what people will watch and British people would be more concerned about British soldiers. I have watched today about the bombings of the 3 police stations and 1 Red Cross. What I found interesting is that one station was inclined to separate the dead into categories of race while another simply stated the number dead. I feel the news that separated the dead lost the point that it doesn�t matter what those people where but what mattered was, they where killed buy someone who buy the definition is misguided to the point he (died to kill). Something else I found was interesting was even though I felt it was wrong to separate the dead buy their race instead of calling them all human beings or people. I found myself wanting to now if anywhere Americans. Yes its true, I like most people in most countries have a part of me that needs to know the fait of my fellow Americans. One thing that I disagree with is blind following of any idea in ether country or cause i.e. America, Canada, KKK, Black, Panthers, Talibon, IRA, Catholic, Jews, and millions of other group�s people close their eyes and open their ears for. I am not a down with the man person but I don�t believe you should follow any idea because it is an idea. For example I used to be a US Marine but that doesn�t mean I thought I was the best or that Marines are perfect gentleman and honest people because that�s what people say. I was a marine without becoming a fanatic. I kept my own mind and opinions (witch got me in a lot of trouble) J. My over all point (Mr. Or Miss. Reflections) is that yes the Glories DICKtator that is at present running the US is a man that less then half the US agrees with. And while I don�t feel I could do better I would prefer he did. When we stop using titles to define ourselves like white black American Canadian Christian Jewish so on and so forth we may learn there is very few things different about us.

  • Jonathan||

    *Sigh* This thread has been filled with plenty stupidity, irrationality, and ignorance from both sides, especially by the morons who seem to be having problems with their CapLock key. Only a few of these posts seem to be written by rational people.
    Now for my comments... Before I start, let me say I am a "dyed in the wool" Canadian, born and raised here.
    To begin, I'll start by adressing the idiots who wrote the "fuck you Canucks" or "You warmongering Yankees" posts. How many of you have actually met the people you are referring to? Have any of you Canadians who spew anti American venom actually met any Americans? I have, both in real life and over internet forums. Most of the ones I know are frendly, likable people, and none I have met fit the "uneducated ignoramus" steriotype that has been applied to Americans. Perhaps if you knew people in the other country, you would be less inclined to judge them by the decisions of their government. The same applies to the Canada-bashing Americans who posted here.

    Now, to dispel some myths about how "caring" and "peaceful" Canada is. For the "caring" part, did you know that a larger percentage of the US GNP is dedicated to humanitarian aid than in Canada? Now for the "peaceful" part: Canada has been directly involved in almost every major conflict in the last cantury, and for all but WWI, cnada joined these conflicts without being pressured by America or anyone else. After World War II, Canadian troops participated in:
    Korea
    Vietnam (No gov't involvement, but many Canadians went south to America to participate in the war)
    Gulf War I
    Bosnia
    the 1999 bombing of Serbia,
    and finally, Afghanistan.
    Also, during the Cold War, Canadian troops were stationed in West Germany, to help defend Western Europe from any Soviet invasion. Is this the record of a "pacifist" country?
    Maybe my country's current obsession with Liberalism and Pacifism comes from those hippie draft-dodgers who fled here during the '60s and '70s, then multiplied like cockroaches.
    Now to adress one of the other posts here, I will name a country where most of the people don't hate Americans: Canada. During the summer, a CBC poll showed that 80% of Canadians have a favourable view of Americans, despite the friction over Iraq. This was a scientific poll, so unless you have factual evidence to disprove it, don't even try.
    Last comment: to all Canadians here who have called President Bush stupid: maybe he is, but aren't you forgetting about our own Prime Misister Chretien? Compared to him, Dubya is an Einstein!

  • YeeHaw Ranger||

    Hey!

    Fuck invading Canada!

    Let's fucking INVADE America! Everyone'll be too messed up to figure it out, who's on what side or whatever - until we RULE totally, and we can wipe our asses with the Constitution!

    Oh, wait - Bush beat me to it. Shit. Guess it's more lite beer and softcore porn for me.

    Anyone up there in Canada got any good dope?

  • truth hurts we are being major||

    this is such a stupid idea. lets even forget about canada for now. we are wasting so much moeny in the middle east already and we shouldnt waste any more unless its a real threat. canada isnt a threat, its a joke military. i say that canadians are 'holier than thou' liberals who wold fold up and run from any REAL threat, past war experiense notwithstand it. they just dont have that killer instance, which is there undoing. we carved out our country with guns, it is our aggressiove nature thats had us rise to the top of the food chain. we are just good in that way. but we ourselfs are letting us get mixed up in other peoples wars, which is such a mistake. We should get out of iraq, afghanistan, the whole middle east, and let israel sink or swim on its own already.and thats why we are in this mess, israel.

    you probably don't belive me, or you think i'm a nazi or something, but i'm not. heres my two cents worth: i met dozens of israels citisens over the years, and each and every one of them has been obnoxius, ignorant snobby, and superiority-complexed. none of the american jews i know (surprise! i have jewish friends! and yes i like them, and yes! they like me too) are anything like them - why should we help out such a country, the people are so rude, we get nothing from them, they always are picking fights and getting themselfs into trouble, and if you don't agree with them, you are an instant anti-semitic. plus they dont even try to have a real economy, we pay for evrything in israel. i dont think there worth it, as people. i think we are involved where we shouldnt be, and we have picked the wrong side anyway.

    well i looked into it and guess what? i find out you can not like israels and still be pro-semitic. The semits arent just israels. it turns out there DNA is most closely linked to - yup, you got it - palestines! so i say lets let the two semit peoples work out there differenses and figure out on there own finally.

    so for those of you who want to call me a anti-semitic or nazi, go to hell. we should do the right thing and hand the smug israels out to dry, and save ourselfs a lot of moeny grief and bad relations with all the other people living in middle east. the leaders of israel should know better than to throw bricks inside there glass house, because there the nazis of the 21st century. look at what they do to there closest 'cousins', the palestines. its disgusting to me, and i believe in the propper use of deadly force when necessity. its just so ironic there building there wall just like Berlin under communism!

  • Blank||

    I would rather die than be invaded and told what to do by a Yankee. I should hope the majority of us would also.

  • Selco||

    Canada has never asked help from the United States as far as I recall. If war ever breaks lose for Canada they would probably begin conscription providing they have a small population. For all you american's I also recall you begging Canada for help in many Battle's in WW1,WW2 and wars such as Vietnam and NATO missions. And for this Canada becoming the 51st state talk. Perhaps USA should become a province of Canada I dont see a difference? Canada's government seems to be doing a far better job of keeping the country in one piece.

  • ||

    USA would not dare to invade Canada providing in 1812 we could of taken you're entire country. The reason we even had confederation was to fight you faggots we knew we were to weak as 6 colonies but alot stronger in that period than USA. So respect us as we respected you we didn't take advantage of you being weak in that period of history dont do so to us. As for invading Canada anyways.. you think Europe and Asia would allow this? you would be wiped off the map.

  • ||

    Canada has attempted and has stopped many regimes. Even ones the USA ruined. such as Rwanda.. our Generals knew it was going to happen years before the crisis happened but they were all ignored.. up to 800,000 have died in just a few years because of you idiots. There's more blood on the American flag than that of the USSR's
    Whats the glory of gunning people down in front of there wife and children? bombing parades.. killing seniors, bombing children? starving families because there afraid of being killed if they leave home. The United States of America is disgraceful may god have pity on you. Indeed you're right person above me we should of taken USA when we had the chance to put an end to this..
    it's just embarrassing being a bordering country to you


    GENERAL ROMEO DALLAIRE: The Canadian commander of the United Nations' peacekeeping force in Rwanda, Dallaire tried to prevent the massacre of as many as 800,000+ people, but his warnings were ignored.

  • Blake||

    You were destroyed in vietnam. You're having trouble in Iraq. What makes you think we wont revolt with twice the power and damage. As for "NOT ONE CANADIAN SOLDIER SET FOOT ON USA SOIL" that's a complete lie. 90% of the soldiers used were living in Canada and have lived there for years they were Canadian soldiers because Canada was British Canada. We burned the Whitehouse we took many states we deserve respect.. actually I think it's a demand at this point since Bush wouldn't dare to invade another country.

  • Nikolai||

    LMAO, USA fighting war's for us thats a laugh I recall you guys waiting out both World Wars for years perhaps you're the pussies. Alot of your American men joined the Canadian army in WW1 because you wanted action and we were doing very well on the Ypres line. History lesson for everyone if the Canadian's would of pulled out of Ypres like the french ran from the Gas, France would of fell. Canadians pissed in a helmet and soaked anything in there piss stoping the gas we were sitting in rat infested holes with the British on the front lines fighting a force that was 5 times larger than ours and we still saw victory. Just Remember Americans and Canadians somewhere out there back in whenever a Canadian, or a American or a British or a French or a Russian soldier gave there lives for you. Yes that's right a Canadian might of died for you american's get over it we had an army.

  • Hetzar||

    It's sad that most people in the world know geography for many countries other than there own. and many Americans cannot find Canada on the map. Tom Green proved when he asked Americans which two countries border USA and the answer from many were "Mexico? Spain?" "Mexico, Puerto rico?"

  • ||

    "JUST--b4 you say anything--MAKE SURE YOU AT LEAST SEEM TO BE INTELLIGENT...oh, and Canadians died in the Twin Towers also...IF UR COUTNRY IS AS GREAT AS U SAY IT IS, CANT YOU STAND WITH UR OWN NEIGHBOR IN ITS DARKEST HOUR?...if Canada needed it (and it's already happened)," Canada sent hundreds of fire trucks to help you're country when it was in need we had memorials such as you did. You know what happened to 2 of the 3 firetrucks at the border? they were denied access. YOU NEED TO FUCKING LOOK IT UP BEFORE YOU TRY TO ACT INTELLIGENT. I dont even give a damn about USA they can invade who they want or be nuked off the planet It really wouldn't make a difference to me.

  • Watcha Dude||

    Hey dude who posted, like NINE times on November 16th, between 09:07 PM and 09:40 PM - why'd you use all those different names? Isn't it obvious it's all one guy, YOU, when you look back on it?

    Try keeping it real.

  • Watcha Dude||

    Hey dude who posted, like NINE times on November 16th, between 09:07 PM and 09:40 PM - why'd you use all those different names? Isn't it obvious it's all one guy, YOU, when you look back on it?

    Try keeping it real.

  • Watcha Dude||

    so nice I say it twice...

  • ||

    Any one notice the most stupid and moronic posts are by the americans supporting an invasion of canada? hmmmm makes you wonder... I must add that even if no country in the world would assist canada in its battle with the united states, we have 31 000 000 troops, ready to defend this nations from american tyranny, every single canadian would never let an american rule their lifes, we would fight to the last man or women.

    And to that american talking wbout us never fighting against a dictator, what his name, never good at spelling, mr. hitler? You americans got alot to answer to, ever heard of batista who you idiots wanted to oppress the cuban people until castro brought freedome to his citizens, and what about the bombing of chile becuase they democraticaly elected a communist government?

    Oh wait i am mistaken, amerikkka is a wonderous country,a becon for freedome and liberty, like when they segrigated blacks and denies penicilen to them just to see what happend as they withered away and died, and that great organaization you have the kkk, when they tried to come to canada we kicked them out on their asses back to the corrupt peice of shit country they come from.
    In counclusion, you would never suceed in invading canada!

  • ashton||

    fucking retard ther arnt even that many people in canada

  • ||

    i hate america because they suck. if they were gone, we wouldnt have the wars that we have today. I BLAME YOU

  • ||

    In my opinion, I think that the U.S should stay out of peoples business. I think they should stop putting there nose into other conflicts around the world. If that were to happen, people around the world would be much safer. ps later

  • ||

    I like Canadians, and we Americans should not be so fucking stupid about how there anti war. What ever happen to freedom of speech, or did the George w's take that away from us. Don't get me wrong I am deeply proud of being american, but we need to stop being ignorant reality tv watching dorks. By the way, I'm really proud of how some of you other americans on this site know how to spell. You make us look stupid.

  • ||

    If these posts are the best points we can come up with, guys - and if this is the best spelling effort we can come up with, maybe then the Canadians have made a point for themselves. How can we be seen as the best, the world's sole superpower when our own people can't even spell? People should stop letting our end down, nationally speaking. Also some of you people started bringing religion into this. Thats not what this should be about, our nations are both overwhelmingly Christian, so let's not go there. Before speculating on future invasions, we as Americans clearly need to get things right inside our own borders, from top to bottom. Canada should be more supportive though. they like playing 'city mouse' to our 'country mouse', and that's fine, they can make themselves as great as trhey wish, all we have ever asked id that Canada abide by our wishes and participate when they're needed. It's a big scary world, but Canada is lucky to live next to the police station!

  • The Wind||

    Hey, we are like America's Magic Mirror on the wall - and we're telling it like it is, America is NOT the fairest of them all. If the message hurts, remember, we're just the messenger. This is how the WORLD perceives you America. Invaders. Occupiers. Backroom Dealmakers. Indifferent, Ignorant, Impulsive. A Schoolyard Bully. An Egocentric, Narcissistic society based on the accumulation and retention of capital, gobbling resource after resource in a COMPLETELY unfetterred orgy of unchecked Capitalism that will exhaust this entire planet. Don't worry about whether you can spell or not. It really doesn't matter whether a member of the new corporate consumer class can spell properly or not, or even write at all. Remember that when you buy that cell phone with an inset camera this Christmas, you gullible FOOLS! Use that atrophied mass of tissue most of you still seem to possess partial control of, connect the fucking dots, realize you are and continue to be your own worst enemies, and learn to think about actual THINGS of SIGNIFICANCE occasionally, not just all the meaningless crap served up as 'news' these days. That's a tough one, but trust me, it's been well worth it.

  • Blank Stare||

    The spelling and grammar on this thread is appalling. I know the text field doesn't include a 'spell check' function, but couldn't some of you dig out your dictionary or ask your kids for help before you further embarass yourselves and use the word 'there' when its' actually more appropriate to write 'their' or 'they're'. The phrase, 'past war experiense notwithstand it' should properly read as, 'past war experienCe (editorial caps here) notwithstandING'. Are we all of us here, more or less, speakers of English, or are there many people posting who speak English as a second language?

  • Avator||

    We Canadiens have no interest in winning anything in American started wars. When I sit and watch the news, what do I see?... I see Canadien soldiers helping Afganistan REBUILD their cities and countries... I see them work hard day and night to try to protect the locals from other army invasions, risking their lives when they aren't even PART of the war. Our PM sent millions of dollars to help people down there, we're not making any profits out of this.
    Now why do you think 'terrorists' entered Canada so easily? Because we save thousands of lives down there by letting them in our peaceful country and out of the hell they live. You can't expect the whole world to not betray you when you offer a helping hand. So yea, we have militaries, but THAT's mostly what they're doing.

    Reading the page above, I have seen very few intelligent and well argumented comments from the Americans, why is that? Why is it that most of you just say "fuck you canadiens" but are not able to write one paragraph worth of words to explain why you say it? It's blind hatred, you were just pushed in a direction and you follow like a bunch of lambs.

    Again, it is VERY true that Canada is beloved in most countries of the world while US isn't. I've been in Germany and I know very well that is true. And in the middle east, same thing... because as I explained above, you throw the bombs and make a wreck and WE are the ones who try to sort your shit after.

    And about Quebec, It generates most of the money that Canada has, mister 'Jonathan', you don't even know what you talk of. Wanna learn something? Quebec tried to become independant years ago, MANY times. You know what happenned EVERY time?... the english part begged the french not to leave because it'd kill their economy, they came from the other side of the country by plane to protest against the seperation. Last time, Quebec didn't become independant by 1% of votes... most english people voted for a 'no' and 40% of the people in big Quebec cities are english. Stop beleiving opinions you see on random websites by random critics. I could easily make a webpage like this protesting about any country with a bit of knowledge... that's like sophism.

    My boyfriend is American and I'm Canadien, I know very well both sides and he does too. And guess what, he's moving in Canada as soon as he can... ask yourself questions...

    We have a way better healthcare system, way better life conditions, less crime rate, our economy IS going well. And our technology's more advanced, darnit, my interact card didn't work in US while it was working in Germany. Go figure.

    And like some others said, we're laid back, watching and laughing at most of this, while most US people get red with anger at the fact that Canada is more envied than US nowdays.
    Oh, and it is true that our country was the first in the world many times and US just never been close to it.

    Oh, and one last thing, it's not cause we don't like a country that we have to hate all the people in it either. I have many friends in both countries... it's the gouvernment I hate. So stop all feeling aimed at like kindergarden kids.

  • Avator||

    And don't check my spelling, English is my second language, and at least I have a second language I am able to debate in.

    Got to envy Europe, at least they learn 3-4 languages in school, now that's good education.

  • ||

    sorry but.. *chuckles*... I so had to add this. In one of the first comments a guy said
    "We would have subs on 3 sides of the country launching nukes"
    Well I hope it doesn't cross anyone else's minds to throw nukes in the country that's right next to yours.
    And I'm very sure someone wants to drive a sub in the Arctic ocean to invade Nunavut *ROFL*

  • ||

    The single state of California, with a population of about 33 million, has more people than Canada. President Gee-Dub could just call his pal Governator Ahh-nuhld and have him mobilize his state for an invasion. That should improve the California inconomy.

  • Eris' Secret Admirer.||

    I'm hoping that if we just wait long enough, America will implode of its' own accord. Their society is fragmented and polarized. Divisions along ethnic, linguistic, religious and fiscal lines have never run so wide and so deep as they do in the America of today. Tensions and conflict abounds, and not just in "urban centres" but all over the so-called , "Middle-America" as well. The overriding, all-pervasive feeling one senses when visiting America - the sole common denominator that seems to define the flavour of the current American outlook is fear. Well, fear and mistrust. At any rate, a fractured society that fears and mistrusts itself is not necessarily considered a bad thing from all sides, certainly not from the governments' side.

    It is easier to dictate than to govern equitably and justly. But in order to be in a position to dictate to one's people, one must appeal to as broad a base of common ground as possible. By playing on peoples' fears, and on their deep mistrust of one another, successive conservative administrations have promoted an increasingly dictatorial model for government.

    It's only by diverting the collective attention of their own citizens that the American government can stave off the inevitable final outcome of runaway polarization - internal conflict. How this conflict will manifest itself is beyond me- it could be class struggle, racial unrest, or an issue as yet to be defined, it's hard to say...as I said before, American society is fragmented, with cracks running right through it. It's more likely to be a series of events, or some combination of events, that will start the ball rolling, as the one other common denominator one could also consider as being fundamentally "American" is their complacency.

    We, that is to say, we, everybody who lives outside of the U.S., are all better off to let those pill-popping, gun-toting, mall-shopping maniacs do the hard work and finish themselves off FOR us...then America'd be ripe for a foreign invasion, eh dontcha think? HAW HAW HAW.

  • Jonathan||

    Avator, You are the one delving into the myths about Quebec. First of all, Quebec generates only 21% of Canada's gross domestic product, compared with 42% for Ontario, which is home to most of Canada's heavy industry.
    Also, Quebec's spending greatly exceeds it gross domestic product. Although the Quebec government has reduced it's deficit, it still has a whopping $108 billion debt that is unlikly to be payed off soon. Oh, BTW, my information comes from Statistics Canada, not "random websites".
    I am also well aware that Quebec has tried to seperate in the past, and sometimes I wish they did, because then Quebec would come crawling back to Canada after your own economy imploded, which is pretty much a given, since an independent Quebec could not join NAFTA (and thus would lose the benefits of Canada's membership in NAFTA), they would have to create their own currency, and on top of that, many Canadian companies and Canadian branches of foreign companies would pull out of Quebec, thus putting a further hit on Quebec's economy. Even the prospect of Quebec separating has prompted many companies to remove their assets from Quebec, like Candaian Pacific Railway moving it's headquarters from Montreal to Calgary a few years ago. Ever wonder exactly why Toronto replaced Montreal as Canada's biggest city back in the late '70s?
    Oh and before I forget, Quebec never seperated simply because the separatists (who are traitors to Canada and should be hanged) lost the referrendums, not because the Anglophones "begged" Quebec not to separate.
    On another matter, Canada has been cited by the United Nations on several counts, all because of Quebec. The first is access to education: In Quebec, one can only attend an English-speaking public high school if your parents attended an english high school, meaning that immigrants would be forced to send their children to French public schools by default (my father knows this well; he grew up in Quebec). Also, in many public schools across Canada, students must learn French, but in most French schools in Quebec, students don't learn English!! And what about the (Nazi) Language Police, who make life hell for the 20% of Quebeckers who aren't francophones.
    Lastly, I often wonder what happens when Chinese replaces French as Canada's second most common tongue...

  • Jonathan||

    Oh, I forgot to post comments on a few of the earlier post:
    For the Canadians who think that Canada could repel a US invasion: Dream on. If they wanted to, the US could crush us in less that a week (without going nuclear), especially consideriang the dilapidated condition of our armed forces, and the fact that our forces would be heavily outgunned, outnumbered, and outclassed in every department, most importantly in the air...since 1940, no conventional army has ever won a war in the face of enemy air superiority, which is a given for the US in this situation. also, we only have fewer than 200 tanks, while the US has around 3000 on it's own soil. They have one aircraft carrier for every one of our Halifax class frigates...
    And for those of you who mentioned the countries woho would help canada if we went to war with the US...How would they get the troops here anyway? By ship? easily sunk by the US air force or navy which is possibly powerful enough to take on the combined force of every other navy in the world. Maybe these "allies of Canada" could try air transport? Wouldn't work either, because no fighter has the range to escort the transports all the way accross the Atlantic Ocean, thus the US air force would make short work of them. But, as someone elso pointed out, the chances of a US invasion of Canada are fantasticlly remote...

    Now about those (Canadian) folks who would love to see someone invade America... would you really like to see that happen? any hypothetical power with the capibility, intent, and will to eat America for dinner would almost certainly treat Canada as a nice dessert. Also, Canada's economy is dependant on trade with America. If trade to the US were halted, our economy would collapse. Bottom line: If America goes down, Canada goes down with it. There is no other alternative.

    Also, Canada's economy is not really in better shape than America's. The ONLY reason we run a surplus up here is because of our 42% federal income taxes, and the fact that the Chretien government has slashed lots funds to critical public services. Our healtcare system was once the envy of the world, but now it's in shambles. Our roads are falling apart, and we are running a 7.6% unemployment rate (6.0% in the US), and how could I get by without mentioning the "Brain Drain" (thousands of bright young Canadian professionals
    are moving to the US because of better payrates. Most never come back). If our economy was so great, why does the Brain Drain even exist?
    Now, the big shocker: When Chretien took office in 1993, Canada was ranked as "the best country to live in" by the UN's Human Development Index (The US was, 6, and is now 7th). In 2001, we slipped to 3rd place, and in this year's ranking, we fell all the way to 8th place!! 8th place!! What the hell happened during the last decade!? Two words: JEAN CHRETIEN. Ironically, most Canadians consider Canada the best pace to live; but then most Americans feel the same about their own country, and most Britons feel the same about theirs (even though they rank in the teens, along with the rest of Western Europe's nations, except Belgium and the Netherlands, which are 5 and 6 respecively). Yes, I can just see the Canadians posting here to denounce this rating (the "THE UN IS AMERICA'S LAPDOG!!" argument is my personal favorite, but it's no less laughable than any of the others). All I know is, the United Nations now considers America a better place to live than Canada.

    I'm not trying to dis my country here, this is just the way I see things...

  • Sheep Look Up||

    Blah blah blah nothing makes my eyes glaze over more than someone quoting statistics and discussing various 'rates'...taxation, unemployment, whatever...who actually cares about the numbers of tanks someone supposedly has, or whether the UN says your toilets run better than those unsightly Danish ones or not...blah blah blah. Honestly, it's just like watching a classroom full of ten-year olds working themselves into a lather over gold stars. Drop it already.

    What we ( Canada & the US) really ought to be doing is curtailing the runaway corporate culture that frankly, is using us ALL. I didn't grow up expecting to be a faceless cypher for a multinational interest, having to compete with semiskilled slave labour from repressive third-world countries. Our OWN governments've been allowing OUR national economies to be ground into FUCKING DOGFOOD out of some twisted sense of being 'fair' to business, and cutting massive deals for very wealthy companies in the hopes of persuading these parasites not to pick up and move production to some Hell-hole like Djakarta or Bhopal where in the absence of labour laws and environmental controls, any corporation worth its' salt can make a killing and satisfy their mighty, apparently God-like Shareholders. There's nothing more painful to my senses than having to endure the spectacle of some neocon leech, fat from gorging, try shifting blame from his own shallow gluttony by alluding to his supposed Masters, the Shareholders. No-one gets as fat from corporate greed as the CEOs, but they always manage to somehow wriggle out from under the spotlight like the inhuman vermin they truly are.

    Jean Chretien doesn't matter, Paul Martin doesn't matter, neither do either of the two Bushes, Donny Rumsfeld, that Rice woman, "Dick" Cheney, or any of the usual suspects from any of the old nationstates. The people who matter don't make a habit of having their photos published, don't give media soundbytes, aren't generally beholden to the fifth estate, hold no allegiance to any given flag, and whose only interest in politics is to strengthen those parties who will guarantee a continuation of this sickening, deadhearted status quo we've endured for far too long.

    Fuck UN reports, fuck statistics, fuck gold stars from teacher. Grow up, and do it fast. We still have a chance to stop, or at least slow, the progress of this cancerous tumour we've permitted the corporate feudal state to evolve into. Demand action from your elected representatives. Demand greater checks and balances ON YOUR elected representatives. Try subverting the neocons! Become shareholders in major corporations and demand from them, at shareholders' meetings, more employment opportunities for your fellow national citizens! Actually try BOYCOTTING products ( quaint, I know, but you've gotta try ), Hell, try locating smaller, alternative outlets for your consumer needs, or try going without as many products as you do currently. Buy a loaf of bread from a local bakery, meat from a butcher, veggies from a greengrocer...personally, I'd sooner pay a little more to an independent outfit than pay less in one of those crowded, flourescent-lit megastores. And I do, routinely. My point is, you don't have to feel powerless in the face of the corporate feudal state - you can just as easily manipulate and control THEM as they do us. It's just that the more of us there are doing it, the more effective we become, and the weaker their hold over us becomes.

    If they want an entire population of sheep-like consumerites, why not appear to give them what they think they want? Blend in with the real sheep, maybe turn a few in the process. Put the CEOs at their ease. Make the shareholders happy. Once we're firmly esconced, we can all slip off our sheepskins and burn down their barns.

  • ||

    *farts*

  • ||

    well i just have to say that theres no way in hell that americas better lol just look at our chicks there way better looking and also i seen ppl write " usa is bigger"lol k well if you put russia and canada together it would be way bigger then usa lol and then put all the other little countrys that u.s bullys put all them together and well hmmm thats also bigger. so for the u.s to fuck with canada that would be a laugh we would kick your ass while drinking a beer and smoking a joint so FUCK THE U.S!!!!!!! and i also think that jean creatian or what ever his name is should quit bending over to that gay ass bitch bush!!!!go CANADA go CANADA go CANADA!!!!
    p.s i hate that french bitch of a prime minister too so yah
    BRENDAN,edmonton ,ab

  • ||

    well i just have to say that theres no way in hell that americas better lol just look at our chicks there way better looking and also i seen ppl write " usa is bigger"lol k well if you put russia and canada together it would be way bigger then usa lol and then put all the other little countrys that u.s bullys put all them together and well hmmm thats also bigger. so for the u.s to fuck with canada that would be a laugh we would kick your ass while drinking a beer and smoking a joint so FUCK THE U.S!!!!!!! and i also think that jean creatian or what ever his name is should quit bending over to that gay ass bitch bush!!!!go CANADA go CANADA go CANADA!!!!
    p.s i hate that french bitch of a prime minister too so yah
    BRENDAN,edmonton ,ab

  • ||

    well i just have to say that theres no way in hell that americas better lol just look at our chicks there way better looking and also i seen ppl write " usa is bigger"lol k well if you put russia and canada together it would be way bigger then usa lol and then put all the other little countrys that u.s bullys put all them together and well hmmm thats also bigger. so for the u.s to fuck with canada that would be a laugh we would kick your ass while drinking a beer and smoking a joint so FUCK THE U.S!!!!!!! and i also think that jean creatian or what ever his name is should quit bending over to that gay ass bitch bush!!!!go CANADA go CANADA go CANADA!!!!
    p.s i hate that french bitch of a prime minister too so yah
    BRENDAN,edmonton ,ab

  • ||

    Why should they invade? Bush & pals must be happy to have that neocon bum-boy Paul Martin in power. Now that Canada has a de facto small-c conservative party in power, I'm sure we'll roll over for any and all American demands...ultimatums...whims...oversights...etc.

  • ||

    It's all the jews fault. Pass it on.

  • ||

    MAN FUCK CANADA I HOPE YOU ALL DIE.
    USA AND MEXICO ARE #1 BITCHES.
    I THINK WE NEED TO NUKE CANADA.

  • ||

    Okay, I've read most of this and it is sad in fact. First off I'm an American, and I hope our government never takes over Canada. First off, Canada is our biggest trade ally.

    Secondly, if Canada every did become a part of the US, I would be afraid that the Nut-Case Liberals would win more elections then they already do. To me, a liberal is the closest thing to communism you can get.

    To all of you who say that everyone in the world hates America... you are right... because we are the best and most powerful country in the world. When Britain was, everyone hated them. When Spain was, everyone hated them. Whoever is the biggest and strongest is the most hated.

    Israel is America's second best Ally (second to Britain) in my opinion. I take great offence to that SOB who said "Go Iraq". I served in the USAF and I have many friends over there you bastard. I cannot wait until the world finally realizes the Palestinians want nothing but dead Israelis while the Israelis just want peace. They won the land fair and square in the Six-Day war (thanks to American and British support) and I think they should get to keep it. They've already given back more then 50% of what took in the name of peace, but those Islamic extremists don't care.

    Forget about the War of 1812, which was nearly 200 years ago. If that�s all you got then I feel sorry for you. Need we forget what the world would be like today if the US decided not to enter WWII? Oh, that's right; we would either be speaking German or Japanese and be praising Hitler or the Emperor of Japan. And what would the world be like if the US let the Soviet Union win...? I don't even want to think about it.

    Unfortunately Canada has fallen to the same level as the Germans and French. They only want to bash us for all the mistakes we've made forgetting all the good we've done that outweigh it. Luckily we still have a few allies in Europe who remember history. England, Spain, and many others. I am glad to have them as allies.

    Anyone who believes Iraq is all about oil needs to stop watching so much CNN or BBC and start listening to the truth. The Iraqis are now FREE... let me say that again... FREE. If we did it your way, The Iraqis would still be living under the dictatorship of Hussein. Is that what you want? Then everyone says, why only Iraq? The US does have the most powerful military in the world, but our numbers are limited. We can only do so much at a time. Once Iraq is done I'm sure we will move west and free the peoples of Syria, Lebanon and Jordan.

    Nobody wants to attack Canada because they appease everyone. We don't because we don't take shit from anyone, as long as a Republican is in the White House. Democrats like Clinton and LBJ wanted to fight "Politically Correct Wars". They had no balls. Reagan and GW do have balls and they ain't taking shit from anyone. Neither does our good friend Blair in the UK.

    Oh, and just one more thing to add. If everyone REALLY hates America so badly, then why does everyone want to come here to live?

    Nobody is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. It's how you deal with those mistakes that determine how great you are. Canada has hidden from the world behind the protection of America since WWII. I don�t hate Canada; I just hate the people there who hate us for stupid reasons. I like Canada and visit Vancouver B.C. often. Plus, Red Green is a great show I watch a lot!

  • ||

    People didn't hate Britain and Spain at those times because the were the most powerful and influential, people hated them because they used military force to expand and held little regard for 'ingrate foreigners' and 'primitives' who should have been thanking them in their minds.

    Funny, that sounds familiar. I wonder why?

    P.S.

    If you don't follow the news while you're in B.C. you really ought to. If you catch the reports on the softwood issue you might just realize WHY we think we're being screwed.

  • ||

    The U.S. has always had a composed plan for invading Canada. Prior to going to war with Japan, The united states had secretley been working on dismantling canada's infrustructure. Not an invasion per se, but a calculated plan for detroying the economy. Could we invade Canada? Of course. Will we? I would have to say it is very likely in the next 10-15 years. We really need some place to put the Mexicans and Nuclear waste, it's really gettin out of hand in America.

  • ||

    Chris Doran said: "Funny, that sounds familiar. I wonder why?"

    Your right, during the first 100 years of our existence, the United States did forcibly take land from the Natives. So where did Canada get all their land from again? That's right, the same way! Hypocritical? YES! I'm not saying it was right by any means, but we are trying to make amends. Natives in the US now have more rights and privileges then the average American, and rightly so. Since then, I cannot think of any country the US "confiscated" from any 'ingrate foreigners'. I suppose we could have kept Japan after WWII, but instead we let them keep their nation, and we even let their Emperor bypassing his war crimes trial to insure their stability. And sticking up for Britain, they have given back most of their foreign empire� from South Africa to India to Hong Kong. Mistakes were made, and so have attempts to fix them.

    You have to realize the world prior to 1900 was a very different place. Everyone was buying for position and land was up for grabs. The world is different today. All of the land has been claimed and now fixing the mistakes our fathers made is top priority. Before pointing fingers at who did what and how bad it was, give us a chance to repair thing.

    As far as Alex's comments, I agree out immigration policy is out of hand, same with waste disposal, but to say we need a place to put the Mexicans is a little absurd. Some of them do abuse our social system for its perks as do all of the other races, but many of them work for under minimum wage doing jobs, I'd bet, most Americans would have too much pride to do.

  • ||

    Idle minds and bodys always take a hit...it's just time.
    Keep in mind what Adolf Hitler did to the fragile, meek non agressive victims and country's throughout Europe. I like Canada. They have great strip joints. But Canada is like a big fat fucking turkey stashed away in a freezer. And some day, and it will happen.... Someone is going to get hungry and pop that fat bird in the oven and eat it. But in Canada's situation it would be more of a quick deep fry.

  • ||

    Listen here, Minifest destiny will never happen. if it weren't for canada, you fuckers wouldn't have anything because the majority of imports come from canada.

    american beer is SHIT, even americans would rather have a molson than a bud or a sam adams.

    The only thing that americans have to gloat about is their armed forces which are consisted of half a million rednecks from the south who drop bombs on their allies and blow up allied helocopters. your education is shit, your healthcare is worse-two tier?-its ok if a poor guy dies, BUT if a rich one dies than its a tragedy.

    You say your smarter, last time i checked, ALL of our government officials have to be bilingual, your just have to count to 10 and know their ABC's

    your president is a fucking idiot, Bush will never amount to his father, no mattre how hard he tries. and when john jerry gets elected, then you might (keyword might) improve. even thought the majority of smart americans...Lincoln, King, and JFK get shot!

    finally, get off your asses and try to be a better country than canada.

    mu name is James and i am not an anti american. but a realistic canadian

  • ||

    Just because the Canadians have their own country doesn't mean their smarter than people in the U.S.

    Maybe we should be invading Canada

    ANd what about the war in Iraq? I don't see any Canadiians fighting in the war.

  • ||

    Just because the Canadians have their own country doesn't mean their smarter than people in the U.S.

    Maybe we should be invading Canada

    ANd what about the war in Iraq? I don't see any Canadiians fighting in the war.

  • ||

    Just because the Canadians have their own country doesn't mean their smarter than people in the U.S.

    Maybe we should be invading Canada

    ANd what about the war in Iraq? I don't see any Canadiians fighting in the war.

  • ||

    Just because the Canadians have their own country doesn't mean their smarter than people in the U.S.

    Maybe we should be invading Canada

    ANd what about the war in Iraq? I don't see any Canadiians fighting in the war.

  • ||

    Just because the Canadians have their own country doesn't mean their smarter than people in the U.S.

    Maybe we should be invading Canada

    ANd what about the war in Iraq? I don't see any Canadiians fighting in the war.

  • ||

    Just because the Canadians have their own country doesn't mean their smarter than people in the U.S.

    Maybe we should be invading Canada

    ANd what about the war in Iraq? I don't see any Canadiians fighting in the war.

  • ||

    Just because the Canadians have their own country doesn't mean their smarter than people in the U.S.

    Maybe we should be invading Canada

    ANd what about the war in Iraq? I don't see any Canadiians fighting in the war.

  • ||

    Just because the Canadians have their own country doesn't mean their smarter than people in the U.S.

    Maybe we should be invading Canada

    ANd what about the war in Iraq? I don't see any Canadiians fighting in the war.

  • ||

    Just because the Canadians have their own country doesn't mean their smarter than people in the U.S.

    Maybe we should be invading Canada

    ANd what about the war in Iraq? I don't see any Canadiians fighting in the war.

  • ||

    Just because the Canadians have their own country doesn't mean their smarter than people in the U.S.

    Maybe we should be invading Canada

    ANd what about the war in Iraq? I don't see any Canadiians fighting in the war.

  • ||

    In short...Canadiens are pussys.. And yes we American's are ruthless self centered Killers. That's better thatn being a fucking pussy.We could bend Canada over and fuck them in the ass all night if we wanted to, don't kid yourself you Rye and coke, jug of beer eH? frozen fucking goofballs. Talk all the smack you want. YOU suck and you know it. Tell your mothers to stop fucking the Moose so you foster some better offspring

  • ||

    canada is know for peacekeeping not invading countries and starting wars like the motherfucking americans are

  • hi||

    All in all here these countries would never go to war the U.S. spends millions of dollars on canada and many other countries in the world for financial aid and food yet when we make a decision to protect ourselves against terrorists no one is there behind us you people should be ashamed of yourself you have never given us any thanks for what we do i like canada it is a beautiful countery but the countries problems really aren't the average citizens fault more of the president but of course i didn't vote for him im only 14 but i think we should stick togetther rather than pick on each other like were doing when no one has done anything wrong and if you would like to reply please do and visit my website at www.home.earthlink.net/~atxtrickster1

  • A Volunteer to Invade||

    Yeah, so stop talking and do it.

    www.InvadeCanada.US

    HILARIOUS

  • A Volunteer to Invade||

    So yeah, invade already.

  • A Volunteer to Invade||

    Still waiting, let's get a move-on already!

    http://www.InvadeCanada.US

    LOL

  • ||

    Thank god i live in Australia, on the opposite side of the world to the US. yes you are even hated here, , and when we (your supposed allies) see that idiot Bush, pushing his bullshit lies about Iraq to the rest of the world it makes me sick, you bastard, its because of your lies that some of my friends are serving in Iraq,
    For fuck sake america, pull your fucking head in, let the rest of the world live in peace, stop bombing other countries (what is it now..68 interventions in other countries since WWII)

    YES PEOPLE... 68 TIMES AMERICA HAS INTERVIENED, POLITICALLY, MILITARILY, COVERTLY OR OPENLY IN OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD.
    DONT BELIEVE ME ?? DO SOME RESEARCH..!!! FIND OUT YOURSELF.. the information as all available on the net.

    and you wonder why people strap themselves into a seat and fly a plane into the WTC..

  • Invader||

    "and you wonder why people strap themselves into a seat and fly a plane into the WTC.. "

    Because there was nothing to hit in Canada?

    Because nobody would notice if it happened in Canada?

    http://www.InvadeCanada.US

  • ||

    Ray,� My �hatred� as you put it, is backed by the continued double standards put forward by the US and it�s ever changing foreign polices to suit the political agenda of the time, regardless of the number of innocent civilians killed along the way to achieve their objectives. How many in Iraq so far ?? estimates say anywhere between 10000 to 33000, depending on what you read..(not counting the million or so since sanctions were introduced after the first gulf war)
    Afganasthan ? Vietnam ?.. Korea ?.. need I go on., shit there was millions in Vietnam alone.
    Oh that�s right � we don�t keep records of civilian casualties� and �I don�t know where you get that information from but that�s incorrect� are the usual official responses.
    How many more people have to die for Americas global and strategic interests.

    You cannot really be serious when you think so many people hate you president because it�s �fashionable�
    Maybe .. just maybe, there are many people in the world who can form independent decisions based on information not spewing out of CNN and NBC, (who just tote the political spin at the time) and can see through the propaganda and spin.
    Didn�t your president and Colin Powell say in early 2001 that Saddam was contained and did not represent a threat ?
    Why the sudden change and charge to war�that�s right WMD, im so sure Saddam could attack the continental US / Israel ..� maybe he�d get his best buddy Osama to do some damage on his behalf�.. get real.
    But it�s all OK, you�ll have a similar, non independent inquiry with political appointee�s to run it that the UK had on pre war intelligence, which will be another whitewash and the blame will go on the intelligence community. Even though weapons inspectors said over and over there were no WMD
    Meanwhile tens of thousands or Iraqi civilians remain DEAD� and counting. And you�ve �liberated� another country.
    Chris said it right.. it�s all been said before.
    Support for Fascist Muslims ? your kidding right�get out of the notion that �your either with us or against us�. It�s that arrogance that is part of the root cause of all this bullshit.
    Yes all western society is now a target, including my country�(Australia) WHY IS THAT�.it�s cause and effect my redneck friend. People don�t become terrorists because they think it�ll be fun, look deeper and there is a reason behind it, but I suppose its easier to label them extremist and fascist Muslims. As much as I am appalled at recent events in Spain, 9/11, bombings in Israel, Bali etc etc, the US and western responses are equally appalling. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi�s, why has no action been taken there. Funny, I didn�t see US tanks rolling across that border�maybe because that corrupt regieme is already in the US back pocket. Iraq wasn�t.. mmmm something to do with OIL ??? unfinished business ???
    No matter what bullshit rhetoric and spin you and your government (and mine for that matter) put forward, and what gets covered up and whitewashed over, Iraq was unjustified, and will only add to the worldwide anger against the US, and increase terrorism.

    America does not have the god given right to impose it�s version of democracy on the middle east, be the world�s policeman, �liberate� country after country and impose its values on the rest of the world.
    Your country is heading the world down a very dangerous path, which will cost countless lives in the name of peace and freedom� how ironic is it, the number of US backed conflicts in the last 30 years in the name of peace, has cost millions of innocent lives.

    Bombing for peace� its like fucking for virginity.

    And what has my country done you ask� well if you get out of your patriotic rhetoric for more than 5 seconds, turn off CNN and actually read some, you may just find the answer to that.

  • ||

    yeah.. kickass..
    your right, most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi..
    What happened then..
    the US bombs Afghanastan.. gee, did you miss ?
    the US bombs Iraq.. gee, did you miss again !!!

    or is it just your right to kill anyone and everyone who has a grudge towards the US.

    continue the trend.. why not bomb Canada...
    it makes just as much sense.

  • ||

    For Ray Stephens:

    'If we did it your way, The Iraqis would still be living under the dictatorship of Hussein.'

    Just a comment: If you had done it our way, Hussein would never have even BEEN in power. The US put him there.

  • ||

    I think of Canada all the time..... Especially when I take a shit. A nice hot nutty piece of ass dung

  • ||

    Guys war isnt what we have to be worried about, trust me. The world has way too much evil and we better start loving our neighbours or else the world will end. Make fun of me all you want but read the bible and u'll see what im taking about.

  • ||

    Guys war isnt what we have to be worried about, trust me. The world has way too much evil and we better start loving our neighbours or else the world will end. Make fun of me all you want but read the bible and u'll see what im talking about.

  • ||

    fucking god botherers... the world doesnt revolve around the bible.

  • ||

    Every time I stop here and read the latest drivel, I feel compelled to chime in. But you're all so good at it, I scarcely see the point. Just remember, Jesus Christ was a pinko commie subversive, and as much as the world DOESN'T revolve around the Bible, it sure as Hell doesn't revolve around Internet geeks either.

    Up the Revolution! Aieeeee!

  • ||

    Every time I stop here and read the latest drivel, I feel compelled to chime in. But you're all so good at it, I scarcely see the point. Just remember, Jesus Christ was a pinko commie subversive, and as much as the world DOESN'T revolve around the Bible, it sure as Hell doesn't revolve around Internet geeks either.

    Up the Revolution! Aieeeee!

  • ||

    Every time I stop here and read the latest drivel, I feel compelled to chime in. But you're all so good at it, I scarcely see the point. Just remember, Jesus Christ was a pinko commie subversive, and as much as the world DOESN'T revolve around the Bible, it sure as Hell doesn't revolve around Internet geeks either.

    Up the Revolution! Aieeeee!

  • ||

    Every time I stop here and read the latest drivel, I feel compelled to chime in. But you're all so good at it, I scarcely see the point. Just remember, Jesus Christ was a pinko commie subversive, and as much as the world DOESN'T revolve around the Bible, it sure as Hell doesn't revolve around Internet geeks either.

    Up the Revolution! Aieeeee!

  • ||

    America has the biggest navy in the world and the country with the biggest navy has always been the world super power. Education is good enough the only reason you have number one education is because you have nothing to do up there but play hockey so all the kids study down there. Here we actally stuff to do. Plus if we in vade you guys you counldn't stop us and we could get allies to help and the countries we could pay off. The only reason you haven't got invaeded yet is because you have the world's super power right next to you.

  • ||

    America has the biggest navy in the world and the country with the biggest navy has always been the world super power. Education is good enough the only reason you have number one education is because you have nothing to do up there but play hockey so all the kids study down there. Here we actally stuff to do. Plus if we in vade you guys you counldn't stop us and we could get allies to help and the countries we could pay off. The only reason you haven't got invaeded yet is because you have the world's super power right next to you.

  • ||

    We could beat the crap out of Canada any day are kidding me all we would do was just put 1
    nuke and blow them up the only thing the canadiens are good at are hockey thats all. The rest is all U.S. i dont need to explain any more do i. 1 or 2 nukes.

  • ||

    The only reason we don't get invaded, or have buildings blown up by international terrorists, is that we have earned the respect of others by respecting the rights of others. You guys down south have forgotten that fear is not the same as respect. You have earned worldwide fear with your actions - fear and loathing. Bullies get theirs in the end.

  • ||

    damn stright

  • ||

    damn stright

  • ||

    Yeah, you damn bullies. How dare you stop Hitler from invading Europe and Hirohito from killing the Chinese and Stalin from spreading Communism and Saddam from killing Kurds. You should be ashamed of yourselves! You'll get yours... knowbody will respect you for these horid acts!

  • ||

    Though I've given up on trying to make anything that even resembles a point due to ill reception, I thought I'd post a transcript of an E-mail I receieved. The words below are not mine. Do enjoy.

    Before anyone becomes enraged by the content of this email, or regards this message as being �anti-American�, it was generated and forwarded by a military family who has family in Iraq.



    Just for the record, I LOVE America, and some of my best friends are Americans.



    God bless America.



    Regards,

    Sherree





    Subject: Fw: GWB - Presidential Resume'....please read and pass it on!





    EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:



    LAW ENFORCEMENT: I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.



    MILITARY: I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.



    COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.



    PAST WORK EXPERIENCE: I ran for U.S. Congress and lost.



    I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.



    I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.



    With the help of my father and our right-wing friends in the oil industry

    (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.



    ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS: I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union.



    During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.



    I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.



    I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.



    With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.



    ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT: I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.



    I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.



    I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.



    I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.



    I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.



    I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.



    I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market.



    In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.



    I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history.



    My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.



    I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President.



    I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.



    My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. history, Enron.



    My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.



    I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history.



    I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.



    I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.



    I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.



    I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history.



    I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.



    I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.



    I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.



    I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.



    I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.



    I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors

    (during the 2002 U.S. election).



    I set the record for fewest number of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.



    I set the the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period.



    After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.



    I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.



    I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.



    I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community.



    I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in war time.



    In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq, then blamed the lies on our British friends.



    I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans

    (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.



    I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD.



    I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein to justice.





    All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.



    All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.



    All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review. PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.

    .

    PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERY VOTER YOU KNOW

  • ||

    If that isn't a bias, one sided, stretching the truth, lying piece of information that I've ever seen I don't know what is! AWOL�? Never� And he won the election fare and square. It isn�t a plurality system, it is an electoral college. Live with it. Most of the bad things happened during his time were caused by 9/11, something he had no control over. But hey, at least he didn�t steal millions of dollars from the Iraqi people like some forein leaders in Europe I can think of!

    Once again all these people can do is point fingers at the US for what wrongs we've done completely forgetting everything good we have done for this world as if it never happened...

  • ||

    For Ray Stephens

    The sad thing is Ray, all those points about Bush, they have never been disproven. Pull your head out of the sand, and get rid of that idiot... his stupid actions affect the whole world, not just america.

    The thing about all the good you have done for the world (i suppose there are a couple of things)
    are mired and overshadowed by all the bad, The consequenses of the US actions and foriegn policy has affected almost every country in the world, negatively in many cases.

    Speak to a worker in Bangledish on the factory floor making Nike shoes for $2 a week, whose family are living below the poverty line, what he thinks of the US, while the Nike corp. exec flies around the world in his learjet looking for other sources of exploitable cheap labour to make more profits for the corporate elite.
    I suppose he should be happy to have a job hey ????

    Ask whats left of grieving families after you military paid a visit in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Chad, Honduras, Grenada, Iran, Panama, Sudan, Afghanastan, Iraq, etc... the list goes on....
    The US has bombed 23 countries since the end of world war2..!!!!! FACT..!!!
    Gee, your such a good member of the world community.. I cant understand why anyone would hate the US enought to do it harm.

  • ||

    You Stupid fucking Americans... go buy some more ammo for your M-16, sit at home and play with yourself and leave other countries to sort out their own issues. The rest of the world is sick of you idiots jerking every other country off.
    But I suppose, if your clown of a president is a reflection of the type of people in your ignorant, xenophobic, self-indulgent, gunslinging society, then there will be more wars courtesy of the USA, more countless civilians dead, and more bodybags heading back to your shithole of a country.
    George Bush.. what a joke, if only you knew how much the rest of the world laughs in contempt every time we hear his gibberish on TV or radio, fuck the man cant even speak properly, let alone tell the truth. The fucking asshole lied... L I E D ... to the whole fucking world.. and you idiots do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT IT..!!!!! and what is worse, you still believe the lies after all this time... er hello... does your population collectively need to be slapped in the noggin with a wet fish before you realize what is going on, and where this road will lead you ????

    Wake up America, get rid of that idiot in November, and get some common sense back into your foreign policy.
    Iraq was never a haven for terrorism before, as it is now... YOU created that... as well as Sadamm in the first place. IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11.. do you people realize that ??!!!!

    fuck why do i bother.. some redneck who believes all the lies will just dispute it with meaningless bullshit anyway.

  • ||

    fuck all canadians u all are a-holes your mofos dont do anything cause you cant your country is a fucking disgrace its a waste of land cananda sucks.

  • ||

    fuck all u fucking a-holes canandies u guys are a bunch of fucks u cant so anything but play hockey your country i fucking disgrace its a waste of land all canandies are american wanna be's so shut the hell yup mofos

  • ||

    Let me ask you something Ray...

    Do you feel safer and more secure now ??
    What benefit is it to you that a million people have died in Iraq over the last 10 years as a direct result of US enforced sanctions.
    Are you safer now that an estimated 30000 Iqaqi's have died since the US invasion, even though it was stated by the executive branch many times in 2001 Sadamm was contained and not a threat... to anyone. Fuck you were bombing Iraq daily, had Air supremecy over the entire country, had Carriers sitting in the Gulf.. HOW WERE YOU THREATENED ???

    Why did many UN nations refuse to help?
    BECAUSE THEY KNEW THE LINE YOUR IDIOT PRESIDENT WAS SPINNING WAS TOTAL BULLSHIT ..!!
    Why do you think thier pulling out now... ? would it be because they still think it's total bullshit ??

    Operation Iraqi Freedom.. now thats an oxymoron.
    Im glad i dont live in your fucking americian utopia.. I'd be labeled un-americian, un-patriotic, denounced as a pacifist for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
    I think a European political party used that line to drag thier country into a war back in the late 1930's.

    Americians dont give a fuck about how many innocents die...apart from your own...
    Why is it to you Americians that an Americian life more valueable than another ???

    You make me sick... go and fill your SUV with cheap Iraqi oil, buy some ammo on your way home (for your personal protection) sit in your comfy lounge room, filled with crap made by foreign workers who live in poverty, turn on CNN and be shocked and horrified that an Americian Mercinary (oops.. contractor) has been kidnapped in Iraq.
    Who gives a fuck about the 100 Iraqi civilians that died today...they're only rag-heads.

  • ||

    Contractors, mercenaries - call 'em what you will, what it amounts to is scab labour, and I think we all know that a scab labourer is just about as low as you can go here in our Western Democracies. Howsabout Haliburton goes and takes a flying fuck, and let Iraqis rebuild their own country? There's one of the major sticking points for Iraqis - with all of their skills, they're being left to ROT while a bunch of amoral ambulance-chasers from The Grand Ol' US of A and other suspect places make a fat pile of cash, and to Hell with the locals.

    Let 'em starve, for all Dick Cheney and Donny Rumsfeld care. Let 'em fall apart and we'll replace Allah with - what? A Big Box store? A bunch of drive-thrus? Hollywood movies? What?

    You have no freakin' idea what you're playing with over there folks. You discount them, you see pictures of shot-up streets and wailing peole, and you've lumped them in with other people - the Palestinians, the Afghanis, people you don't have to care about. Look at them scrabbling in the dust, look at their bullet-pocked homes and storefronts. How unlike you and your beautiful world. And you say to yourselves that they have it coming, that only lowlifes and scum live like that here in America, with their funny clothes and hair, etc., so therefore Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine are populated exclusively with criminals and terrorists. And that makes it okay for them to be killed, especially by you. Because you either see yourselves collectively as being greater than they are, or you see yourselves as normal, and they (whoever they may be, it really could be anyone at this point - anyone who makes fun of your illiterate, backwater President, perhaps?) as innately inferior, dare I say - subhuman?

    There's a very good word which applies perfectly to America's current professed world outlook, a word much-abused and distorted by gender politics over the last half century or so: CHAUVINIST. The Women's movement co-opted the term to describe a man who perceives himself, by virtue of his gender, to be superior to a woman. I use this word here because to be chauvinist, in the truest sense of the word, is to hold oneself above ones' fellows, or to hold one's fellows in contempt.

    You Americans hold the entire world in contempt, and you also hold yourselves above all others. You are a chauvinist nation, a country replete with (intentionally) functionally illiterate sub-morons as incapable of forming a coherent sentence or even a cogent statement as they are capable of finding a parking spot at the local Wal-Mart.

    I don't care about kidnapped foreign nationals in Iraq. A scab gets what he deserves, and I'll leave it at that.

  • ||

    Look, I'm tired of repeating myself over and over on here. If you want to read my opinion just scroll up a few lines. You guys obviously dislike America and Americans so there is not point going on with this facade of a debate when all you can do is trash us because of your hateful opinions. I'll just let history sort out the details.

    But I can say this. You are right that Americans only care about Americans... and I'm okay with that since I am an American. But if you wish to open up a history book and see what we have done for the world you might be surprised at how many of our people died in your countries protecting your freedom to ridicule us. If you really believe we go around killing innocent people for the fun of it, then you will always be blinded from the truth. No other nation has sent troops to America to protect us when we were in trouble except the French during the Revolution over 200 years ago. We don't owe anyone anything, but we still like to help every once in a while seeing how we are the most powerful nation on earth.

    BTW I don�t drive an SUV, I hate them too� I drive a car that gets 40mpg.

  • ||

    Your history book is strewn with dead bodies from you own innate beginnings, from south America to Europe, to Africa and throughout south east Asia.
    The rest of the world may trash you with hatred and contempt, they are just words, at least its not done down the barrell of a gun, which the US has been so good at throughout history.
    Might is Right....

    You only "help everyone once in a while" when there is political and economic gain for your elite to be exploited from other countries. IE Vietnam. Look what history says of that now.
    For fuck's sake, how are you helping anyone by invading a country ???? The line of removing a brutal dictator doesnt wash, WMD and most other lies that have come out of Washington. the really sad thing is.. most americians believed it, and then pulled out the atlas to see where Iraq is on the map.

    Did you give a flying fuck when half a million died in Rwanda 10 years ago ? Fuck no.. no money to be made there.
    IM sure you only care about Americans, just proves the point on how you view the rest of the world with contempt.
    Maybe you'll start to wake up to yourselves when the next disaster like 9/11 comes around, which it will my friend, its only a matter of time.

    Hope your proud of your achievements then.
    Until then, happy consuming.

  • ||

    America and its values.

    Your country was outraged by seeing a tit at the superbowl half time show on TV.
    Yet yesterday 20 million of you fuckers sat were captivated and watched a dying princess taking her last few breaths in a mangled car in a Paris tunnell.

    how fucking anal and fucked up is that.
    What a fucked society you live in.

  • dddddddddd||

    rays snart stop fighting

  • ||

    Only the last part was aimed directly at you, Ray. I apologize if I'm not always clear, and even for my sometimes insulting nature. Those hideous barbs were generalized from a compiled collection of insults hurled on many political topics where American defended many past actions by attacking others with half-true history and snide, horribly mispelled remarks. You, refreshingly, can spell. And since you were paying attention in history class you should know what I'm talking about when I say that demanding payment would likely have been a repeat of the failure of the many incomprehensable clauses in the Treaty of Versailles concerning war costs. That, and the U.S. had it's own previous debts to worry about and it's own costs from the war, which I think were reconciled from unfinished arms payments to a degree as a mutual benefit. If I have to mention it explicitly, I'm from Canada. B.C. to be exact. You have read that post enough to try and tell me what is or is not in my media. Or so I gathered when you mocked me afterwards. You keep missing the info in some of the things you said yourself. It doesn't help your case very much, quite frankly. As for the French, the Maquis, the resistance, was instrumental in the slowdown, sabatoge, and leak of many German plans. Had they not done their part, Hitler's mechanical production and armed forces would have most likely been at least 30% more unpleasant, and some of their scarier toys would not have been discovered or promptly destroyed. I'm trying to pinpoint the metaphorical 'falling out' between your country and theirs, but to no avail. Just why are Americans always so pissed at the French despite many not having met or spoken with any nationals? The Swiss, I don't know. I can't make judgements about them because I am unaware of their circumstances, only their policy of neutrality. Which they stood by. Strangely, Hitler seemed to respect that. I'm still trying to figure that one out. Also, concerning your decidedly harsh views on societies that work differently from your own: I have known a couple of people who lived in communist countries, some were more relaxed than others. The degree of regulation in most wasn't quite what democratic society made it out to be and in fact, daily life wasn't really too different. Some ways it was better, some ways our system is better. That's what was said to me, and I'll add, without a gun to their head. Speak of bias and brainwashing all you like. You'll always see it, because that's what you want to see. You said it yourself.

  • ||

    You really are a moron.. who ever the fuck you are...
    1. For a start, I am not Canadian, nor do i live in Canada.However if i did choose to live in north america, it certainly would be in Canada, not is the ses pool of inhumanity called the US of A
    2. If you think there are no corporate gains from militarty action then you have your head so far up your arse you cant see the light of day. What do you think Haliburton is??? a charity organization ?? Do you have any idea of the links between that company and your government, plus numerous other organisations ?? one name.. DICK CHENEY... go and read a little, you fucking ignorant idiot.
    3."Liberating another country in the name of freedom" as your government puts it, is nothing short of bloodlust crusade to impose your fucked up apathetic and immoral values throughout the world. Call it what you will, place any political spin on it and spit it out to your knowlege starved, ignorant and innane population, who believe anything Bush tells them. It is still an action that has enraged the rest of the world, the true cost of this imperialistic crusade wont be known for years.

    BTW... what happened to WMD that was the reason for this war ??? answer that dipshit.... oh now its liberation.. what will it be next week ???

    4.What the fuck does an M1A1 Tank have to do with anything ?? and yeah.. i do know.. After serving in my country's military for 10 years, done many exercises with the US milirary, i'd know more about your country's military capability than you certainly would.

    5.You obviously cant fucking read, i never disgraced your milirary, Like many poeple of the world outside your country i dont distinguish any difference between seeing an dead US mairne or a dead Iraqi child laying in the street. It is a waisted life in the cause of a bullshit war which shouldnt have occured in the first place.
    Your militarty is only there at the bidding of your government who does the bidding of the cronies of the corporate elite.
    What do you really think any Military action is ???
    PROJECTION OF MILITARY FORCE IS NOTHING MORE THAN AN EXTENSION OF POLITICAL WILL !!!!

    6. My disrespect is aimed towards your government, your dickhead of a president, and towards the citizens of the US collectively for allowing your government and corportions like Haliburton to drag your country and it's allies to war, in a region that you have no knowledge or respect, of the history, culture and beliefs of the population.
    I have friends serving in Iraq, and i hope they all come home to thier respective countries... ALIVE.
    I have more respect for soldiers, sailors and airmen, of any nationality, than for the likes of you.

  • ||

    Yes, I am impressed by your personal ability to spell as well. And your loss of cursing is to your benefit. Interestingly enough you and I live quite close to each other. I happen to live in Washington State, just south of your B.C.

    You are right, however, about the idiocy of my fellow Americans throwing insults without facts. That is one of the main reasons I keep replying. I here so much from the opposing side of mine that I feel compelled to argue my view since it seems to be very quite. Of course people with the point of view like yours often make as much of the ranting too.

    I can say the French underground was very instrumental in the fight against the Nazis, but I was aiming my comments at the French government as a whole. And the Swiss during WWII were not as neutral as you would expect. When the Nazis were controlling their territory they assisted them with supplies and such. Of course they were doing what was best for them I cannot fault them for that.

    The hatred for the French from the Americans can be quite difficult to explain. I believe a part of it is engrained into our society from past generation and British sentiment lingering. Some of it has to do with what we think of as arrogance on their behalf. Arrogance that is not necessarily deserved if you want to know the truth. I do not necessarily hate the French, in fact I wish we could mend our differences as we did during the revolution some two hundred odd years ago. That would be a wonderful thing. But it seems unlikely because of different ideologies, we will probably stay opposed at least for now. Britain, on the other hand, is the US�s greatest ally along with Canada. I hope these strong ties will last.

    On a final note, I wish to see my own country undergo some political overhaul and become a bit more libertarian� more freedom and less regulation. Unfortunately such changes are almost impossible over a short period of time. What interests me the most is the liberals in the system. They want more freedom to be, what I consider, more immoral, yet at the same time they want to give the government more control. This I cannot understand for the life of me. In the end though, I will still remain a patriot. I served the USAF for 4 years proudly, and I will remain loyal until the government does something beyond objectionable to my beliefs.

  • ||

    canadiens suck u all are fucking assholes execpt the hockey teams for the NHL. u cant do anything but play hockey thats it. all u canadiens suck except for my uncle also.

  • ||

    In all reality, modern day revolutions are not exactly as clean cut or easy as they were centuries ago. Military technology, instantaneous information, and dominant states make a revolution in the modern age nearly impossible. A nation like the US cannot just site back and watch an important nation state go all berserk because each of the first world nations today contribute a bit to the world economic balance. When one of these goes chaotic they disrupts more then just themselves, so action must be taken immediately. Britain happens to be the United States� greatest ally. When they need our help for their �interests�, we help them and visa-versa. That is simply the way it works. Is it always right�? That is up to history to decide, but when the colonies were in upheaval against the British, there was more then one superpower of the day. Both Spain and France had significant influence in the world and �interests� of their own. Now there is only one superpower left. During the cold war there were many nation states that began civil war. Some of these were won by communist influence (Cuba, Vietnam, and N. Korea) others were won by democratic influence (E. Germany, S. Korea, and E. Europe). Who is to say which way is better�? It is all a matter of opinion. Now there is only one major influence left and that, simply, is just the way it is.

    As an American citizen and patriot, I happen to side with the American stance in most world affairs. Whether the world likes it or not, we are the number one kid on the block and our way will be had. The E.U. is continuing to gain strength, along with China, so the future may get very interesting. You could say the US is like a modern day Rome. We have all the influence and power in the world. The E.U. and China could be reminiscent of the Huns and Goths. If history is doomed to repeat itself� the world may be trusted into another �Dark Age�� but that remains to be seen. There is really nothing I as an individual can do about it except use my single vote� and that is about it.

  • ||

    Oh NZ, moronic and arrogant say ye? So that is why the Muslims hate us. It doesn�t have anything to do with the fact that we are infidels, nonbelievers and heathens? Hmm, I guess I was wrong about that. And the Europeans like to call us arrogant? Wow, I hate to say this, but I think that could be a bit of an inferiority complex. Calling us arrogant� HA! How hypocritical is that?

    Xenophobic and imperialistic? Yes, the great empire known as the US is constantly fighting for more territory� wait� oh yeah, didn�t we give Japan its lands back after we �conquered� them? Hmm, I guess we should have just taken it like the imperialists we are.

    Bloodbath in Iraq? You have to be kidding me� bloodbath? I hardly think that word fits in comparison to EVERY war before it. Not to mention Saddam spent a lot more time killing his own people then we have. Do you seriously think Iraq was better off with him as a leader?

    The UN said there are no WMDs? Wow, what a reliable operation the UN is in its infinite wisdom. The UN is a joke and should be disbanded permanently. Did the US supply WMDs to Iraq? Absolutely not. Building blocks? Perhaps, but doubtful. That remains to be seen. We, along with Britain, France, Germany and Russia, did supply conventional weapons to Iraq in the Iraq-Iran war though.

    The US heading the world to another Dark Age? HA! Electricity, the light bulb, the airplane, the rocket, landing on the moon, the internet, the PC, and many more technologies we use everyday all done within the US. We lead the way in much of the technology all of us use daily. The Dark Age indeed� A free market and competition lead to inventions that revolutionized the world in the last 200 years by people fed up with European oppression and regulation who moved to the United States� like my ancestors.

    I still find it interesting that you won�t enlighten us to you country of origin. Are you afraid I or someone else may use it against you? Are you worried that your countries history is not so clean cut and perfect as you might wish it was? A blank face pointing fingers without an identity the get pointed back at. Makes you literally bulletproof doesn�t it? Like I said, my country isn�t perfect, nor is any other country in the world. Germany and Japan both have horrible pasts or genocide. England, France and Spain were all extremely imperialist throughout the entire planet. Russia� well you already know about them sending twenty million of their people into battle as cannon fodder. I would say any �atrocities� the US has done through the years is dwarfed in comparison to the above mentioned.

    Then again I can see your point of view. If I lived in your country I may share your ideals, but since I live in America I see the world in a different light.

  • ||

    cananda sucks

  • ||

    cananda sucks

  • ||

    Hey, WakeUpCall, why is it up to the canadian police to "get off their horses once and a while" and catch terrorists going to the U.S.? Why can't the Americans do it? And equal opportunity for everyone? Get real, in the U.S. you don't even have free public health care! Everybody hates U.S. because they lied over the war on Iraq and nobody would want to have links with them after they invaded Canada whithout a reason (even a false one). Their economy would crumble (yeah, sad side effect of internationalization and capitalism when nobody wants to trade with you and you depend on them) and the U.S. would have to start attacking other countries to get ressources and that would start a world war. And you may be the strongest, but in a world war right now, with all the fanatics that hate U.s. and the world against you, you don't stand a chance.
    Believe me, if we want Freedom, we know better than going to live in the U.S.

    "But as we take our rightful place as World leaders"... Than sounds suspiciously Nazi-like to me...

    "They are so far off from reality they actually have a 'liberal' party - they even have communists in their house of representatives!"...That's what makes us great. Diversity. You should try it, maybe then you would not get some crazy president who is right now getting you in the worst economic deficit in a decade.( Hmmm... who was ruling a decade ago in the U.S?... YEAH!! You got that one right! Bush Senior!)

    "no UN member will EVER vote US as no. 1 or whatever other irrelevent thing is said because they, too, have some personal vendetta against the US"... So simple. The whole world has a vendetta against the US! Not poor US' fault, of course! The rest of the world is just stupid and doesn't have a single reason not to like US. Because, after all, US are perfect!

    "This war is a Holy one, pitting dark idolatrous forces against our modern-day Crusaders. But God is on the side of good and God willing, we will triumph!"... If it wasn't so sad I would laugh. The real message from God is to love your ennemies, not kill them!

    "all we have ever asked id that Canada abide by our wishes and participate when they're needed"...What are we supposed to be? Your slaves?

    "the US should invade Canada, but they should limit their offensive to Quebec"...Quebec whines because the rest of Canada doesn't respect it... like Canada whines because US doesn't respect it. As for Quebec being a drain to Canada's economy, WHERE exactly do you think the boats from europe come from? What do you think the 7 million peoples in Quebec do? Spend their day whining and throwing government money out of the windows? They WORK and if they went away you would lose a lot of money.
    (and by the way, in Quebec too you have to learn english, that's why i can answer.)


    I think a lot of stupid things have been said in this discussion. Of course, some intelligent things too, but not much. I think we should all try to understand each other and stop insulting everybody over something that probably will not happen (yes, i know, I did it too...).

  • ||

    "We are the number one kid on the block and our way will be had" is the typical moronic and arrogant attitude that makes you so despised throughout the middle east and Muslim world, while free thinking, educated and informed peoples throughout the western world generally look at the US foreign policies an actions with disbelief and contempt, not hatred Ray..
    Your constant bitching of your either with us or against us, or with the terrorists, is simply laughable, and i guess that does make you comparable to a modern day Rome, a xenophobic, imperialistic society whose fear of the unknown has led you into this bloodbath in Iraq. When will it end ?? Whos next....New Zealand ? mmmmm no oil there...

    On you question of magical pixie dust dropped on Iran and the Kurds...the US should know, you supplied it to Iraq.
    Like the Trucks that carried hydrogen for weather balloons (oops biological weapons factories that Powell used to make the case for war)
    Are you really still hoping to find WMD in Iraq... wake up, they are not there...as UN inspectors said.. MANY TIMES...
    But i guess it will justify the deaths of 30000 iraqi civiliand if they are found eh ?
    And yeah, i want to see another 9/11 as much as i want to see another Madrid bombing, another Bali bombing or another 100 Iraqi children dead from another car bombing. "You hope to see another 9/11" are your words Ray... not mine.
    If any country is heading the world towards another dark age it is the USA. Your country controls more territory now (outside the states) than Rome ever did. history shows though, empires crumble, kings are killed.
    Where do i live ?, a wester democracy, but it doesn't really matter, suffice to say, yet another country that has to bow to US economic domination and exploitation.
    The point is I, like every other person on this planet, am affected by the actions of your government, directly and indirectly. You and your country men would be wise to remember that.
    Be humble in your "world leadership", not arrogant.

  • ||

    First things first.. sorry for the ranting "faggot" crap, my way of venting.. nothing personal.
    I dont believe though that the USA had / have the unilateral right to depose a government of a soveriegn state, no matter how good or bad it is.And certainly not without support for the UN.
    Weather it be a democracy, facist or communist state
    only the people of the country have that right, history has shown, many times that dictators will be overthrown, and if a civil war, or revolutionary war is what it takes then so be it, Yes you may argue at what cost in lives as opposed to a foreign power overthrowing the government, but is that for you or the govt. of the USA to decide. isnt that the foundation of your country.?
    And you may also argue there was a coalission of the willing, but under how much pressure form the US.. it does weild the big economic stick, now it seems to be becoming the US and the coalission of the unwilling, and the USA
    In the last 100 years 170 million people have died at the hands of thier own governments, the USA has waged war/intervention on governments that are responsible for 65 million deaths of thier citizens, (roughly). As noble as it is, that sort of begs the question, well what about the 100 million or so ?? why no intervention there ? and why was Iraq so special ?????
    I for one do not believe the human rights issue.
    As for the WMD issue, well from all the reports around before the war, from Donny Rummy, from weapons inspectors, Iraq did not have the WMD capability that was sold, by the US administration, to the US public, to be an clear and present danger. there are numerous reports around, on the net and available through FOI (those that havnt been declassified or yet to be leaked) consporicy theories asside that is.
    As for a big brother state, well i would welcome that as much as any person...NOT... however from the outside looking in.. it is very apparent that the freeoms that you (in the USA) take for granted are being eroded at the cost of "national security" read the transcripts of the nuremberg trials about what Georing (from memory) had to say about how a government swayed public opion towards so called enemies (im not trying to accuse US of being similar to the Nazi regieme, just making a point) Public opinion can be swayed very easily using the lable "national security" point being, question your government policies, dont believe a god damm thing they say without hard evidence. well we all no politicians bullshit till the cows come home so probably a mute point.
    But i do beileve questions should be asked of why 9/11 happened, if the painful truth needs to come out at the cost of national security then so be it, it may help prevent another disaster. Simply blaming it on fanatics really is a cop out.


    sorry bout the spelling.. spell check not working

  • ||

    Ray Stephens you faggot...So what would you call the situation in Iraq ?how many civilian death's constitute a bloodbath in your books ? a million, I think the US has already achieved that, taking into account sanctions since the first war.
    "supply WMDs to Iraq? Absolutely not. Building blocks? Perhaps, but doubtful" your another neocon faggot!!! , like most americians you refuse to acknowledge the truth because it forces you to look at yourselves and your governments previous actions. You are so fucking blind. US did supply the building blocks to Iraq, its a simple fact yet you refuse to acknowledge it.
    It amazes me why there has been no inquiry into the reasons behind 9/11, not how it happened, but why it happened. Would that force the American government and people to look at themselves ?
    Im glad i live up here and not in such a self centered and disalousioned country as the USA.
    I think WE should invade you, and impose our will
    and form of democracy on you... im sure the world will be a better place then.

  • ||

    Absolutely not... what right does any state have to overthrow the government of a soveriegn state, just because it openly opposes the US, the continental US was not threatened by Iraq, and the question about Israel is pretty mute, Israel is surrounded by enemies, not just Iraq.
    what is the real reason for this war? "To disarm Iraq of Weapons of Mass Distruction"? I'm not so sure. Removing a tyrany.. your kidding, Him killing his own people... yeah right.

    First of all , it was because Iraq wouldn't let inspectors back in. They did.
    Then, it was because of WMD, which haven't been found. Maybe they don't exist and were destroyed after the first gulf war.
    Then, it was because of a "link" between Al-Qaeda? and Iraq. Not only has this not been found, they are natural enemies.
    Then, it's because of the decloration they made.
    Finally, there is the "moral" reason, because Iraq attacked Iran, Kuwait and killed Kurds with chemical weapons. This forgets that the U.S. was giving aid to Iraq at this time and was fully aware of what was going on.
    The government suggested that if Saddam were `exiled' we could avoid an Iraq war. How does that have anything to do with the above? How would "regime change" help in the hunt for WMD?
    Might it have something to do with "American Interests" in oil? or about a personal vendetta. Or maybe it's this whole new pre-emptive strike deal the Bush Admin wants to test out. The Bush Admin has shown it's distain for multilaterialism and working together with the rest of the world to solve global problems. Maybe it has something to do with Full Spectrum Dominance?
    The line goes that we can't contain Saddam because he's so evil... well, didn't the US contain Stalin, who had nukes, and killed millions? And Mao, also nuclear armed, was contained. NKorea ? The US was okay with containment for them. Why the change now?
    Iraq did not use chemical weapons that it did have during the Gulf War. Why? Because they were deterred from using them because of the US's threat of massive retaliation.
    People make a big deal with the fact that Iraq has ties to anti-Israel terror groups,but even though he's apparantly had chemical weapons for nearly 20 years, he has never given any of those groups chemical or biological weaspons.
    The US has used nuclear weapons on Japan. The US has used Chemical Weapons in Vietnam. Agent Orange contained Dioxin, So, how does America have the "moral high ground" to say that someone else shouldn't have these weapons? Or at the very least, how can they say we should INVADE another country based on that sole criteria?

    While Iraq was using chemical weapons, the US was giving Iraq intelligence to be used against Iran. US also sold weapons to both sides of that war.Donald Rumsfeild visited Iraq during it's use of chemical weapons in order to establish "normalized diplomatic relations".
    The main front for this war is that there are 16 U.N. Security Council resolutions that Iraq was in noncompliance with. But this point doesn't really hold up. American allies like Turkey, Israel and continue to violate a total of 90 Security Council resolutions. Why couldn't other nations claim the right to militarily "enforce" the Security Council's resolutions against countries that they'd prefer to bomb? Israel is in noncompliance with more U.N. Security Council Resolutions that any other country! Why not bomb them? Israel shows open defiance of UN Security Council resolutions, which calls upon the Israeli government to open its nuclear facilities to the IAEA. the U.S. has said that the U.N. "places itself in danger of irrelevance" if it does not go along with this U.S. led war. But what good is the U.N. if it can't form it's own opinions? Does that mean that the U.N. is only relevant if it follows the U.S.? What happened to the rest of the world?
    Doesn't Preemptive war go against the very grain of American life? Also, doesn't Preemptive war give North Korea the green light to bomb the USA?
    Before Iraq invaided Kuwait, U.S. Ambassador April Glaspie said "We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait" this convieniently seems to have been forgotten now.
    All sounds a bit too ironic for me.

  • ||

    An interesting aside: I've been supplying graphics for a documentary about human stupidity, and learned about the origin of the word, 'moron'. Apparently the term was coined in America by a psychologist near the turn of the twentieth century. He was trying to devise a scale of sorts for measuring stupidity, with imbecile at the low end.(Don't ask me for all the details, this is just something I picked up- what were all the various levels of stupidity? I don't know, I saw the info just the one time).

    Anyway, 'moron' was intended as a positive descriptor. A moron was supposed to be someone who, until you actually interacted with them, gave no outward sign of their idiocy. Why do I mention this? Well, if you'll remember, one of our ex-PM's aides got the sack after muttering under her breath (in front of reporters) that current Prez Bush Jr. is- yeah, you remember- a MORON.

    So, the fun part is, that aide actually had it technically right! It's not until he opens his mouth and starts making up grammar as he goes along that his idiocy really becomes apparent...

    Well, it's probably no surprise to Mr. Stephens that I'm yet another of these miserable disrespectful Canadians, blathering on all smug and self-satisfied, while his brothers-in-arms are all presumably out being heroicly killed in order to defend my right to breathe air or something. Oops, I was being disrespectful of the military just then, that's another two demerit points-!

    Most of the not-unclever Americans I've dealt with in the last few years have had the tendency to shift arguments mid-stream. Like WMDs gets turned into overthrowing dictatorships to foster democracy. Or, if I take an antiwar stance, I am told that however I feel about the conflict, I must still show support for the troops. Because they're there fighting to maintain my/our/somebody's freedom. Funny, I thought they were there to depose a hated dictator and in so doing help foster democracy? The arguments twist and turn, like a capering used car salesman on speed.

    Just as passionately as Ray declares himself to be a patriot, I declare myself to be morally and ethically opposed to war and the continuing support of our, or indeed any, institutions of war. War results in the deaths of human beings, and as such, it is to be abhorred, not venerated. The intentional killing of human beings by their fellows is considered murder, and murder is abhorrent. Murder is abhorrent because it runs counter to the values we all share as human beings. War is, on a larger scale, a series of intentional killings of human beings by their fellows, and as such amounts to mass murder, and is therefore far worse by degree than a 'simple' murder.

    The use of physical force to resolve issues between disagreeing parties of human beings is rather embarrasing when viewed from a longer perspective. It reflects quite poorly and unflatteringly, actually. When disagreements occur, the usual approach to resolution is to open a dialogue between the two parties. An equitable solution is agreed upon, and the disagreement fades into memory. The use of physical force comes only into play when one side or another attempts to force agreement on an unequitable solution. The only reasons for attempting to force an unequitable solution are reasons of pride, of greed, or envy. Military institutions are in the business of enforcing a governments' unequitable solution, of enforcing the dictates of their pride, greed or envy - of murdering, or threatening with murder, other human beings at the request of a hierarchical political elite. A soldier does what he's told. So, should I get behind soldiers, even though I find what they do, and what, in turn, the military institution they belong to, does? Absolutely no freakin' way. Murder is murder is murder. Murder is wrong. Period. So, don't ask me or anybody to respect members of military institutions. Membership in a group that actively engages in the murder of ones' fellow human beings is hardly anything that merits respect.

    So, there it is. Or not quite. A number of times when chatting with Americans, they'll mention some other stuff and nonsense about the plight of some American civilian worker who's been kidnapped, how if I can't sympathize with the troops in Iraq, I should at least be able to sympathize with one of these dreary people. Feh. Feh, I say. Feh. If America had made use of the Iraqi pool of talent, from day one, they might have built enough popular support to keep things together. By using all foreign contractors, two things have occurred - one, the Iraqi people have felt diminished by this exclusion and seen their standard of living plummet to apalling levels, and - two, naturally enough, the Iraqi people are also getting rather angry about this unequitable solution. Foreign contractors are in Iraq to make huge flipping wads of cash while skilled Iraqis, idle and apparently unwanted, are lucky to have food and occasionally water. I don't lose sleep over the fate of greedy little piggies who get in over their heads.

  • ||

    Just as you see Bush Jr. as a "moron", so I see Paul Martin, Vladimir Putin and Jacques Chirac as "morons". Of course this is only my personal opinion, which I back up with facts about their actions and compare them to my opinions about world affairs... as you have. Intelligence is often based on how you see reason in comparison to your ideology. I guess it is "fun" to make fun of the way Bush talks, but he is an intelligent person as far as I am concerned.

    I respect the fact that you are against war Nemo, and I actually agree with you that war is generally a bad thing, but there are times and places for it. WWII is a great example. If we did not stop the Nazis and Japanese from overthrowing their neighbors, we would be under their rule and not our own, so to me, that war was justified. I also think this current war is justified.

    "Like a capering used car salesman on speed." Well perhaps... It appears from all the reasons you've heard for the war this can apply. But simply put, the name of the operation is Operation Iraqi Freedom and that is how I see it. We are there to free the people. For what reasons were we preempted? I don't care really, most of those excuses were put into place to gain support for a war, and most are justified. If we just said, "We want to free them." the world would have winced their eyes at us... like many did. I have no problem with the many side reasons for going in... just the main reason... and that is to remove a despot and create freedom. Is pushing our ideals on another people a good thing? Not according to you and those like you, but to me a stable nation means a much more stable planet. A stable planet is a good thing... if you ask me. It is confusing, and sometimes annoying, but whatever the reasons to go in� we are there and need to finish the job.

    Who's next? Hard to tell. Stabilizing Iraq will take some time, but I assure you it will not stop with Iraq as long as Bush is president. About half of Americans support Bush one hundred percent. Does this mean those people are morons because they disagree with your ideals? Perhaps, but to me they are intelligent.

    Sometimes physical force is necessary in my eye. For some people, it is all they understand. Words are meaningless without action. Words are cheap! I don't like war any more then you do... but like I said... it is necessary. I don�t wake up every morning saying, �How many more Iraqis did we kill today?� War is murder�? Hmm� no I don�t think that is true. When people are killed in war they are generally killed because the person killing them killed them in self-defense of one sort or another. We don�t go into war blindly firing in all directions. We go in with a fixed target and take that target out while minimizing unwanted casualties. If we wanted to get the war over with quickly, we could have just dropped a few daisy cutters and moved in later to clean up the mess.

    As I stated I believe in Libertarianism� people take care of themselves and their families� not forcibly being taken care of by the community or government.

  • ||

    I find it amuseing you class Bush jr as intelligent. A guy who has to stop and think every 3 seconds about what he's gonna say next doesnt strike me as someone you'd want as thief.. excuse me...commander in chief. but yeah.. its fun to pay out on him.. he deserves it.
    It's a bit difficult to compare your involvment in WWII to iraq.. ie as in Iraq was no threat to the US, and had not attacked the US
    how do you justify a preemptive war against current international law.. ?? international law recognizes that nations need not suffer an attack before they can lawfully take action to defend themselves against forces that present an imminent danger of attack. Legal scholars and international jurists conditioned the legitimacy of preemption on the existence of an imminent threat-most often a visible mobilization of armies, navies, and air forces preparing to attack.

    So how can you say the multitude of shifting and ever changing excuses for this war were justified ?? because your government said so...??
    Not hard to see why the UN didnt.

    I hope it does finish with Iraq, because hopefully baby bush wont be around for too much longer..

    Im sure you dont wake up every morning and think "How many more Iraqis did we kill today?"
    You dont have to...
    you dont want or need to...
    because you couldnt care less.
    Your door isnt being kicked in by foreign soldiers.
    Members of your family havnt been killed by foreign soldiers.
    You dont live in apalling conditions.

    You should understand the doctrines of preemptive and preventive war and where they can lead.

    btw..your attitude towards a nation and its people that your country has invaded i think is appaling .

  • ||

    justin1, please ignore that first line about the contractors, I reread and realized those were Nemo's words, not yours. Sometimes I get them mixed up. Sorry.

  • ||

    I love Canada, bu tI love America an incy weency bit more! Now that I got that straight:

    America is the best place in the world to live... why do I say that? I lived in other nations before... I've seen people risking their lives, their savings, and everything they have... just so they can get into USA. I know a man who did everything to acquire a visa to enter USA, but he was denied... many times. Do you know what he did? He went to Canada and then high-tailed to USA. As for 1812 War, USA won, there was no doubt about it. First of all, there was no Canada back then. There wa sno account of any Canadian fighting that war. The only belligerants were the British (who owned the Canadian province) and the US. Correct accounts show that 3 US invasions into Canada failed, but the 4th was succesfully done under General William Henry Harrison after Capt. Oliver Perry successfully defeated the British fleet at Battle of Erie (granted that Oliver Perry had 3 more battleships than the British). Andrew Jackson had destroyed the far larger British force with a mixed army of pirates, blacks, and private militias at New Orleans. The greatest British advancement was the attack on Washington, DC. Unfortunately for the British, that was their only major advancement on land.

    Here is more... America isn't loved by any other nation in the world because... they are jealous... (I know this because I lived in other nations) everyone would love to live in America, but his/her own nations won't allow him or her to acquire a visa. As for economy, look at any charts, even the UN will tell you that USA has by far the greatest income and has the largest economy. Canada is ranked 4th I believe. The second highest on the list is Japan. USA, by the way, is the richest nation in the world disregarding small nations like Lichtenstein (because those small nations contain a high classed populations, but their populations are miniscule).

    In case a war happens between USA and Canada, USA would easily win although world AND domestic opinion would be opposed. The only nations Canada can count on help would be the minor nations like Britain, France, Germany, and India.

  • ???||

    Ray Stephens,
    I don't see how having free health care gives the governement more control over my life. When I arrive at the emergency with a broken arm or another problem, the governement is not going to use it against me or to gain control over me.

    And about Libertanism, who makes sure that your rights are respected? The governement? To make sure your rights are respected it will have to have some kind of control over you or the ones that don't respect your rights...
    Say you get fired by an abusive boss and are between jobs. The governement can't intervene in your favor, because then it would control the liberty of your boss to fire you. As it doesn't give social services, you wouldn't benefit from work insurance. So you would be moneyless.
    Now say you got hit by a car during that time. You wouldn't get free hospital, or at least the government paying for you until you can pay back. The hospital could charge abusive fees because after all, they are free to do as they please and the governement can't stop them without controlling their liberty. What next? You would have to take the first lousy job you found to pay back the hospital before the high interest rate on the price of your payment gets too much for you to pay. You probably would spend all your life working to pay back the hospital and then die at 50 because they wouldn't treat your cancer or your pneumonia because you didn't finish paying them. In the thirties, everybody took care of themselves, until they got tired of it and asked for more help from the governement.

  • ||

    Yeah, the US enforces international law... selectively... funny you dont see tanks rolling into Israel to enforce international law and UN resolutions... hypocritical ???
    "Do you have any idea how much better the lives of the common Iraqi's is" ive heard that before too.. umm Korea, Vietnam... i guess you'll believe what your told to believe eh.
    I say again.. It was not the US's position to say weather or not a government of a sovereign state should be removed or not.. fuck... how arrogant is that. and even more so if that country was not a threat...
    but i guess that's just falling on deaf ears.. your government does not want to answer that.. apart from saying it was justified.. fucking bullshit.
    The reason why i'd like to see kerry win.. well its pretty simple, he's not that idiot W. nuf said.
    "we don't want other countries telling us what to do or how to run our own election" funny you can covertly interfere in other governments and elections (68 in all since end of WWII) but you dont want any outside influence in you own...
    mmm bit ironic me thinks.

    And Shashir.... everyone's jealous are we....
    yeah.. i'd love to live in a country where over 10000 people die each year from gun related violence, id love to live in a country that is gun crazy, i'd love to live in a country with no healthcare system to look after the disadvantaged, i'd love to live in a country that can spend 800 billion on the military, but doesn't give a fuck about the homeless bums living in a park 300 meters from the whitehouse, id love to live in a country that will probably face another 9/11 type disaster, id love to live in a country where most of the rest of the world either mistrusts you, thinks your hypocritical, thinks your arrogant, thinks that you put your interests above all other nations, and in many places simply hates you.
    Jealous.. .you gotta be kidding.
    nah.. dont think i wanna live there.

    most people in western countries think they live in the best country, your no different, but most people dont carry on with blind patriotism, bordering on fanaticism.. like the fanatics your trying to hunt down and kill in a few countries, or the governments that the US constantly threatens. The only difference is they have different beliefs.
    Guess that makes them evil hey.

  • ||

    The fact is, if the US even tried to invade Canada, not only would it be a MASSIVE waste of resources and troops on their part (since there's not a whole lot Canada has to offer that isn't already exported there) but the UN and every nation in it would be all over the US in an instant. I'm well aware that America is the strongest country in the world, and it spends more on their military than the top 10 countries COMBINED, but considering there's more people world-wide than simply in just the US, I'm pretty sure there's enough to either send them back into the stone ages, or have an occupation force implaced. There's no real reason for the US to attack Canada, but Canada WOULD loose if they did. The thing is that the rest of the world would simply all gang up on the US and finish them off. Its bad enough they went into Iraq against the will of the UN, but if they went into Canada...let's just say they'd be screwed royally.

    ^ My 2 cents on the matter. ;)

  • ||

    The funnies thing I could see happening is:

    Years from now, America sends all its forces to deal with several or dozens of countries in europe/asia. Suddenly, when they least suspect it, Canada rolls in with all we got and invades the US from the north. Although, with all the gun owning American yanks who are just citizens alone, would almost be as big as Canada's army. I'm sure we could handle some red-neck insurance sales men and soccer moms with their NRA official "self defence" weaponry. :P lol. w00t! Ah the day with the American flag'll bear maple leaves instead of stars and stripes. ;) lol!

    (I thought this thing could use some humor. Don't take it too too seriously now.)
    ;)

  • ||

    Well, I started reading this page a while ago and there are definitely allot of opinions here. I have not had time to read through all of the posts, but do think I have gotten the basics of what is being discussed. Some of the posts are sadly very ignorant and blind (from both sides), and some are very educated and open. The truth is that there are two sides to every story. Will we ever see it the same way? I would like to think that we could. For the most part most Americans (me) and most Canadians are peace-loving people. You cannot judge a countries people by the decisions that their government makes. Admittedly many American citizens did not want to the US to invade Iraq a second time, however at the time of the war starting the evidence in presented to the American people said we should. So I then pose a question, if you think that someone has taken a possession of yours (we�ll say a credit card because it is small and easy to identify), and that person refuses to show what the have in their pockets/wallet until they have had a chance to go home and change wouldn�t you be convinced that they had taken it? That is the basics of what Saddam did. The entire world community said, �We need to check and be sure you don�t have these WMDs.� Saddam�s answer was �Um� ok, just let me clean up first.� In the months leading up to the more recent Iraq war Saddam and his government had TONS of time to hide or smuggle out any WMDs or programs to develop them. To say that Saddam was not a threat to the US and for that matter the entire world community is a lie! Any leader that is willing to GAS his own citizens because they have different religious beliefs than his own is a threat to EVERYONE ALIVE. Let me ask another question, I will use Hitler in this example because I see allot of easy comparisons between Hitler and Saddam. If Nazi Germany in 1939 and elected not to invade other neighboring countries and instead had just sat around and developed in secret new weapons to use in one major strike against the Allies of WWI, while at the same time it was killing it�s own citizens because of their religion, would the world have been wrong for uniting against it? It may be my own opinion, but I think the answer is no. I think that if no one had acted and everyone just sat around Europe would instead now be mostly Germany as well as much of Africa and Russia. So what makes Saddam different? If he didn�t have the ability to yet he would of found a way to of gotten it. Also, the US had reason to suspect chemical agents because we sold them to him when he was at war with Iran. Yes it was a very dumb move, American citizens as well as America as a country has a tendency to seek �instant-gratification�. We also have a very short memory, but we do care about the world community as well. However I will ask you to name one Governmental leader right now who in anyway thinks of the rights of other people before he thinks of keeping his own people safe? If Canada actually thought that the US was going to invade and posed a reasonable threat it would act preemptively as we did to protect its citizens. I by no means hate or for that matter even dislike Canadians or Canada. Heck it is even in the US constitution that if at any time Canada wants to it can vote as a whole to become a part of the US instantly, as twelve new states. No other country in the world can do that. Canada is our neighbor, and though we may have disagreements they are still our friends.

  • ||

    i want to become an americian as much as i need a new asshole.
    fuck off and invade antartica... i hear there is some oil down there...

  • ||

    Ray Stephens:
    The government doesn't have the right to look at my medical files without reason. They don't choose my doctor for me, I get the first one available. They don't choose my medicines, the doctor does (yes, you could argue that the doctor works for the government and that in some way the government chooses the medicines for me). Nobody gets a favor treatment and everybody has an equal right to medical help. What is wrong with that? We live in a society, not in some everybody-for-himself-and-if-you-don't-have-money-too-bad-you-are-lazy-and-deserve-to-die civilization.

    I said an abusive boss. If it doesn't bother you to be fired for no reason or a bad reason, i'm happy for you. It would bother me. When I talked about your rights being respected, I was not talking about your right not to be murdered or robbed. I assumed there would be a police force in your dream government. I was talking about your right to work in secure environnement or not to be fired for no reason.

    As for the insurance, you are right, I didn't think about it. First because my insurance came with work and it is a benefit specific to the company, but also because my most basic medical needs are already covered by the government insurance.

    But if your insurance came with your work, you would lose it when you got fired, and else you would have to pay for it, wich you may not be able to do because you wouldn't have money. Anyways, in the thirties, without "all these programs", workers didn't have many rights and could barely afford to live, let alone buy insurance.

  • ||

    Ray Stephens
    You use a computer, you can write and read, and seem to have an education, as your opinions are not backed by arguments such as "Canadians are all war-dodging, tree-hugging, pinko-commie, pussy, pieces of shit" and the like. You are not starving or else you wouldn't be spending time discussing something that will not happen in your opinion. I think you are not that poor. Maybe you get less money than the neighbors, but a great part of world population would consider you a rich man.

  • ||

    you right... LBJ was a dimwit.. and you've got one now, it must almost be a prerequisite for the job.
    Im sure you hate the UN.. coz they dont collectively kiss arse every time the US wants something.. because the UN is a voice .. ie other countries in the world have an opinion that may differ to your 'we're better than everyone else, we hold the moral high ground, might is right, holier than thou' attitude.
    Yeah, a nuclear submarine sitting 15 miles off the coast of my home town threatening my family would make me tremble.
    fuck.. and you wonder why people fly aircraft and crash them into your cities.

  • ||

    Ray Stephens
    "Thousands of old people and even younger people died because their hospitals COULD take care of the people"? Do you mean couldn't take care of the people? Anyways, the hospitals were not ready for such an event as what happened in France. It had nothing to do with their health care system. (I am guessing they have a health care system similar to the canadian one, or else I don't see the point of your example). It was a natural disaster. The hospitals were full, the water was scarce, there were fires and many people didn't go to the hospital because they were old and unable to do so, or because they didn't take the risks seriously enough.

    "I shouldn't have to pay taxes because some teenage whore couldn't keep her legs shut and has three children she can't afford". Yeah, she shouldn't have had kids at her age. It could maybe have been prevented by giving her a better education. Maybe her parents were not there to educate her. Maybe they were working to pay their installment payments... or maybe they were just irresponsible. It doesn't matter. What is done is done and you can't go back. Now, maybe before saying she doesn't deserve help, you should think about the innocents in this story: her kids. They live in the "land of equal opportunity", after all. Do they deserve to be left alone, without help, with a mother who will probably be out, working all day to pay for them? No, absolutely not. They deserve to be well educated, well cared for. So, what if you pay 10$ more in taxes for innocents? What if you pay 1000$? Do you really think they will go to waste?

    And about environment protection, did you know the first electric car was built in the 1900? If in 1900 the technology to build electric cars, however crude and inefficient, existed, I'm sure that if we really put our efforts on it, we could come up with something viable in a few years. So instead of complaining about the greens who think the environment should not be destroyed over inessential oil, why don't we work on something that will make oil as obsolete as charcoal powered trains?

  • ||

    "The US doesn't claim Iraq as a new states by throwing another star on our flag. Iraq was a blatant threat to peace and stability and we crushed them. After we are done, we will leave and the Iraqi people can make their won decisions"

    smacks of Vietnam all over again. you've gone in there, for reasons that have changed, been distorted, and with all the evidence coming out now, were simply LIES. let me say that again L I E S. and you still believe the lies.
    Now that you have made a mess in your unilateral crusade, your blabbing for UN assistance, your so-called partners are withdrawing, and a sence of hatred towards the US is brewing throughout the middle east.
    Well now that youve broken it, and your stuck with it, how many more americian and Iraqi lives is it going to take to fix your mess, before you extract yourselves from a country that now has deep seeded hatered towards the west.
    Or will you just do another Vietnam ?
    probably not, there is too much oil in Iraq.

  • ||

    Ray Stephens
    I will never convince you. You have your opinions and I have mine. I know that not everything is perfect, but if I want to change things in my government, I can start my own party (when I'm old enough) or put pressure on the government. I know that even if I am unlucky I will have help and will not be forced to endebt myself to survive. I know that so long as I'm willing to help others, they will help me, even if I don't know them and they don't know me. I am happy to be where I am, to be who I am with the values and beliefs that I have. The people in this forum who didn't insult each other and actually read what others had to say all won something. Knowing what others think and discussing with them is priceless and even if you don't agree with them, it still is a good thing.

  • ||

    -"suppose the geneva convention doesnt cover those Iraqi's that were photographed naked and being tortured in a Bagdad Prison...
    Geneva convention indeed. how hypocritical are you."-

    I knew someone was going to bring this up. Just a matter of time. Bush did not order those soldiers to do what they did. Neither did any General. They did it on their own and now they will be punished under the UCMJ and let me tell you it will be harsh. They have tainted the name of the US Army and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and they will be...

    ...But for you to take that one action and rise it above all others is just flat our nasty. You say I am the one with the agenda and here you spill this out... who has the agenda? Putting the one bad act and label it as everything, all that good honorable work our soldiers are doing over there and you pick out this one thing and paste a label on the whole... that just makes me so angry! Believe me, I am holding my anger in as best I can right now because ??? and I have been civil up to this point and I don't want to steer from that.

    Not to mention we are fighting an enemy who follows no laws whatsoever. Everything is clean in their book. We obviously live up to a higher standard. Why? Because we consider ourselves to be the good guys. Would you rather we fought like them?

    -"Corrupt UN ? well anyone who doesnt agree with the US about everything have to be corrupt. Never mind any corruption within the US administration."-

    I will admit there is corruption in my government (as there is in EVERY government), but the UN is full of it and if you don't believe so then you are blind my friend. I don't hate the UN because it gives a voice; I hate it because it gives power. Voices should be heard, but menial little third world countries with their own problems shouldn't be telling economic and military powerhouses what to do. I love NATO and think it works well. The UN should take a few notes from them.

    -"Yeah.. stay there nice and close to Israel, and see how much more you can be hated."-

    Do you hate Israel? Is that it? I don't. I'm a Zionist and I hope our nation sticks by Israel's side till the very bitter end. If we ever go against them you can be assured I will raise a ruckus like none other! I don't care if they hate us for it. Tough! We obviously can't please everyone in the world now can we? If we leave Israel�s side one of two things will happen. Either the Muslims will move in and kill everyone, or Israel will be forced to take action that makes the 6 Days War look like a practice round.
    _______________________________________

    We are damned if we do and damned if we don�t� If we go in there shooting everyone, you guys will label us murderers, but since we are taking it slow to follow the Geneva Laws, you start saying we are going to slow. No matter what we do it isn�t good enough for you guys. All is wrong in your books.

  • ||

    think i mentioned two actions back there.. not just iraq detainees..
    Your Angry ??? so !!! how do you think most of the middle east feels...
    You always consider yourselves the good guys, most people in all countries do as well, fighting against opression, invasion, whatever.. there's many lables for it.

    menial little third world countries with their own problems shouldn't be telling economic and military powerhouses what to do..

    so most nations in the world should bow to us interests..!! get real.

    yep all is wrong... now... you shouldnt have been in iraq in the first place, more and more people are now saying it was wrong, apart from the neocon hardliners.
    If the US sticks blindly by Israels side, then it will be a bitter end my friend.

  • ||

    DJ,

    -"think i mentioned two actions back there.. not just iraq detainees."-

    Oh you mean the Northern Alliance troops right? I don't know the details of that situation so I cannot comment. Either way, you pick out the worst and ignore the good which outnumbers it many many times.

    -"so most nations in the world should bow to us interests..!! get real."-

    I never said they had to do what we tell them to. I said they shouldn't tell us what to do.

    -"yep all is wrong... now... you shouldnt have been in iraq in the first place, more and more people are now saying it was wrong, apart from the neocon hardliners."-

    More and more huh? Maybe worldwide, but the rest of the world has always hated us anyways, so this is a mute point. Britain is still in the fight and a majority of Americans support it. You say you don't want us telling you guys what to do, but you�ve been telling us what to do since this war started? HAHA! Everything is a one-way street for you guys.

    -"If the US sticks blindly by Israels side, then it will be a bitter end my friend."-

    So you do hate Israel? Just making sure. This gives me a better Idea of where you stand. Now I know. You want to let Israel die but you oppose a change from autocracy to democracy in Iraq. Hmm, interesting indeed.

    Like ??? noted above so civilly, I am not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me� so this is all just exchange of ideas for then a debate. But that is good too.

  • ||

    I don't check the site for a few days, and this happens:

    -�So I give back. I care about my fellow humans. Is that 'hippy' of me? I'd like to think that's human of me.�-

    "No, it is not hippie of you. Do you know why? Because you are doing these great things by your own free will, not because the government is forcing you to."

    Ray, I take back all the attempts at civility, and all my apologies. We are not forced to volounteer. We're not drafted into working for crisis lines and we're not made to donate to children's funds on threat of anything. Where do you imagine there to be guns placed to people's heads? Do you think we're required by law to help those in need? No, we do it because we want to. You shouldn't piss all over us when you make it so clear you don't have the slightest idea how any of this works.

    -�Should we have governments who don't care for, or help out the citizens who put it in place? Who leave people out to dry? Why would we, as thinking, living humans, want that? Who is best served by such disdain for human beings?�-

    "Why? Because I shouldn�t be forced to help someone else who made, and I�ll say this again, PREVENTIBLE mistakes! It was their fault, now I have to flip the bill?"

    Now, a minute ago you said "these great things" which would imply that you had a heart beating somewhere inside of you. Now, you reveal yourself as a contemptable bastard with nothing but malice towards those in dire straits. As the song goes, 'Your heart is filled with unwashed socks, there's garlic in your soul.' Nah, garlic's too healthy. But hey, perhaps you're right. Maybe we should stop helping them. After all, it's their own damn fault if their homes were destroyed by natural disasters, or if their families were killed, or if they've suffered crippling physical and emotional abuse. Why should I pay for the child of some slut teen who went and got herself raped. And man, what sort of pathetic freak would decide to have pedophile parents who make no provisions for their care? An ounce of prevention would have cured all their problems. Oh wait, THOSE SITUATIONS ARE OUT OF THEIR CONTROL! ARE YOU A FUCKING MORON?! You think we shell out cash to every Tom, Dick, and Harry Pothead that asks for it? You may not think there's a point in using tax money to pay for orphanages and the like, but those of us with a shred of compassion don't mind. You think a corporation would EVER pick up the tab for non-profit orginizations out of pocket? Well sure, McDonalds has a fund, by donation and percentage of Bic Mac sales. Hey maybe that's the answer! Would you feel better if a profit were being made along the way somewhere? How about if Nike sponsored these programs instead? I can just imagine the donation adds: "These children have all lost their families, but now we support them by giving them a roof over their heads and a job earning ten cents a day making shoes and clothing. Buy our products, and for every pair of shoes sold you feed one poor waif their weekly meal." Nevermind, they already do that, without the adds and far away from the public eye.

    -"If the US sticks blindly by Israels side, then it will be a bitter end my friend."-

    "So you do hate Israel? Just making sure. This gives me a better Idea of where you stand. Now I know. You want to let Israel die but you oppose a change from autocracy to democracy in Iraq. Hmm, interesting indeed."

    I can't say for certain, but I think he was referring to the en masse slaughter of non-combatants and near-daily destruction of homes. Honestly, how can the U.S. damn the Palestines without exception and support the blatently hostile and dare I say 'terrorist' actions of Israel's military? The U.S. has levelled countries for less than what Israel has done. And about Iraq, how 'Democratic' exactly is what you've done to them? Like I said before It's not a free Iraq if you aren't letting them make decisions you 'don't trust' and it's not a staple of democratic process to bring it about with force and on punishment of being branded terrorist which comes with its own set of dangers that seem in direct conflict with the treatment of POW's outlined in the Geneva Convention. Oh yeah, I forgot, you don't give a rat's ass do you?

    "We are damned if we do and damned if we don�t� If we go in there shooting everyone, you guys will label us murderers, but since we are taking it slow to follow the Geneva Laws, you start saying we are going to slow. No matter what we do it isn�t good enough for you guys. All is wrong in your books."

    That is really messed up. If you see nothing wrong with shooting everyone in sight to begin with then I wholeheartedly wish fire and plague upon you. I have accepted that war is a fact of life, but when you don't even bother to make a distinction between aggressors, civillians, government military, and independant millitants then that just goes way past monstrous. You don't care if they're on the attack or if they just COULD attack. You just kill them. Their government is against you? Kill the civies too. A millitant group not actually affiliated with their country's government and are in fact public enemy number 1 to them declared war with you? Well, then that whole country declared war with you. Kill them all. Is that REALLY your reasoning? Did you or more importantly your country's military honestly not even CONSIDER a soloution that didn't involve summary execution until AFTER the world's collective jaw dropped? You don't seem to give two shits about difference between war and genocide. The fact that the 'last resort' of the U.S. is always the first thing on the table should give you a hint as to how twisted your own reasoning can be. Who the hell says you're going slow? The only people I can even concieve of saying something so demented are those who are howling for the bloodbath every sane person on Earth wants to avoid. You know what? Throw in some locusts with that fire and plague.

  • ||

    Now that I think about it the 'going too slow' thing is probably in reference to the handing over of government back to the Iraqis. If that's the case oops, sorry. My bad.

  • ||

    Chris Doran,

    -"Now that I think about it the 'going too slow' thing is probably in reference to the handing over of government back to the Iraqis. If that's the case oops, sorry. My bad."-

    Sorry, as I was writting you posted this so I didn't see it. My bad too. ;)

  • ||

    Actually Ray, it's coming to light now that those (abuses of prisoners)weren't just the actions of a few soldiers - they were, in fact, acting on orders from Military Intelligence.

    I can practially hear Ray moaning over this one. You want proof? Read the news. Or, if you live in the states, wait fifty years to read the news. That's usually how long it takes for those fiddling little things like news, truth, or state secrets to filter out to the public, right Ray?

    That Ray has now admitted to being a Zionist comes as no surprise - he has of course stated that he is a Patriot, and a Libertarian. Interesting thing, Zionism - isn't that the bunch that regard themselves as innately superior to the entirety of the human species by grace of the will of God? The 'Children of God' is how they like referring to each other...

    Zionism is as odious and chauvinist a philosophy as Nazism, and the security perimeter wall being erected in Palestine by Israel is a symbol of that chauvinism, just as was the Berlin Wall a symbol of Soviet chauvinism.

    Let's turn the clock back to 2001, before the incident at the WTC. The UN had a special conference on Human Rights and racism at Johannesburg, birthplace and deathknell for South African Apartheid. Israel was on the verge of being declared a Pariah State for its' wanton disregard for Palestine and it's citizens. Israel pulled out of the meeting, dragging the US along with it, preventing the vote. Less than a month later, that corpulent murderer Sharon was having photo-ops on disputed territory in Palestine. That's what sparked the Intafada.

    Israel IS a racist state, it should have been considered a rogue/pariah state many years ago, and is not deserving of sympathy or support. They have turned their backs on the very body which breathed life into their political being, the UN.

    There were other people who suffered, as individuals, and in groups, in Hitler's death camps, most notably for my argument, the Roma (Gypsies). The Roma weren't provided a homeland by the UN after the war - in fact, their inequities may only begin to be addressed by the new European Union this year. Were they any less deserving of a place to call home? Hath not a gypsy eyes? Hath not a gypsy hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Or is it that a Jew hath slightly whiter ones than a Roma hath?

    Stop thinking of Zionism as some sort of benign American-style 'manifest destiny', it is nothing of the sort. It is unbridled imperialist dogma, putting one group's wants over another's needs, and is utterly repellant to anyone capable of thought.

  • ||

    Oh, and Ray? You're wrong about everyone in the world always having hated you Americans, and what's more, you know you're wrong. You know just as well as anyone that America stood for many years as the standard-bearer for morally upright policies throughout the world. That many emerging nations modelled their political systems on your own. That people the world over welcomed you into the reality that is their day-to-day existence.

    And that's what makes the actions of this current administration so monumentally disappointing to your fellow humans. You can discount the opinions of 'the rest of the world' all you want, but in so doing, you yourself show the contempt and disdain that we, out here in the 'rest of the world' have come to know and detest coming from that backwater buffoon Bush and his cronies.

    Until you can collectively crawl out from underneath Jr.'s colossal backside and learn once again to see past your own noses, I'm afraid you'll be stuck in this self-perpetuating paranoia trip indefinitely. And that's a damn dirty shame, because the world needs America. Specifically, it needs a level-headed, healthy America, one that doesn't torture prisoners, or kill outright suspected terrorists without due process. An America that always takes the high road, without descending into vendettae, or mob rule. Without an America like this, what's to prevent any government from openly flouting those things you, Ray, seem to discount - International Law and of course the Geneva Convention.

    When Bush commandeered your nation, the world held its' breath. We all could see where things might lead, even if you couldn't. So I suppose there's no big surprise that you Americans feel put upon by all us know-it-all foreigners. Well, Ray - get used to it, 'cause we're not going away until you nuke us, or manage to have us all locked away in dog kennels. And certainly, you can shoot down all the messengers you want, but the message stays the same.

    Wise up! It's a beautiful world we live in, far more beautiful than the sights on an M-16 can ever reveal.

  • ||

    DJ,

    -�smacks of Vietnam all over again.�-

    Iraq is NOTHING like Vietnam. When soldiers came home from Vietnam, they were spit on and called �baby killers�. When soldiers come home from Iraq they are cheered as heroes. China and the Soviet Union supplied the Vietnamese with weapons during the war. Nobody is supplying Iraq with weapons during this war. An insane liberal president fighting a politically correct war fought Vietnam. Bush holds no stops and obeys Geneva Conventions but not to the point it hurts our soldiers. They are free to defend themselves. Vietnam was never a winning war. Iraq was won within a month of bombing. We never occupied North Vietnam. We have been occupying Iraq for a year now.

    Do you know what caused Vietnam to be a failure? People who spit on soldiers and show dissatisfaction to the war. A united country fights a war much better then a split one. You can disagree with the reasons for going to war, but once we are in war, we need to show full support otherwise risk a serious lose.

    -� you've gone in there, for reasons that have changed, been distorted, and with all the evidence coming out now, were simply LIES. let me say that again L I E S. and you still believe the lies.�-

    Lies huh? And you can prove these lies, or are you just watching the same news I am? I don�t think any of the reasons are lies. These are clearly our opinions. Nothing has been disproved yet. WMDs haven�t been found, but they also haven�t been disproven from being there. Saddam was supplying terrorists with money. Saddam was a threat to stability in the Middle East. And I�ll say this again, regardless of the reasons, we MUST support the effort to finish what has been started.

    -�your blabbing for UN assistance�-

    I don�t want that mockery of a world organization to do anything but sit back and watch. The coalition doesn�t need a bunch of corrupt representatives telling them what to do.

    -� a sence of hatred towards the US is brewing throughout the middle east.�-

    Brewing�? The mug is already done being heated. The hatred was already there long before we entered. As long as the western world supports Israel, the Muslims will never like us. I say we stay nice and tight alongside Israel�s side. Not to bring hatred, but to protect them from genocide� for a second time!

    -� Or will you just do another Vietnam ?
    probably not, there is too much oil in Iraq.�-

    Oil� oil� oil� hey if that is why you think we are there and that helps you to sleep well at nigh� go for it. You speak so hardly about lies and yet you believe this? The US has more then enough oil in Alaska to need it from Iraq.

    ???,

    -� I will never convince you. You have your opinions and I have mine.�-

    True, but you are right, it is good to get each other point of view across without hostility. Now I have a better understanding of how you and people like you see the world, and now you see me and my side of the ideology. It is a good thing to know indeed!

  • ||

    "Bush holds no stops and obeys Geneva Conventions but not to the point it hurts our soldiers"
    suppose the geneva convention doesnt cover those Iraqi's that were photographed naked and being tortured in a Bagdad Prison.
    Or the few thousand Taliban fighters killed (after they surrendered) by NA Troops, while US soldiers and commanders stood by and did nothing..
    Geneva convention indeed. how hypocritical are you.
    No the lies cant be proven, but how many of them come from people who previously held high positions in the Administration, who one would assume were in the know. How can you prove anything with your administration when everything is hidden under the veil of ""national security""
    what do yoy really think its about.? wouldnt be saving face now would it.
    Corrupt UN ? well anyone who doesnt agree with the US about everything have to be corrupt. Never mind any corruption within the US administration.
    I for one am glad the UN is in place, isnt that one of the principals your country is founded on.. Democracy !! representitives from each country having a voice !! just because some of them disagree with the US makes them "irrelevant"
    but you have your own drum to beat and agenda to rem down the throat of everyother country in the world.
    Yeah.. stay there nice and close to Israel, and see how much more you can be hated.

  • ||

    The trouble with your "good" Ray.. is that its tempered against all the "bad" that is comimg forth now
    The U.S. primed Iraq with a "shock and awe" bombing campaign, then invaded, and is attempting to impose your concept of democracy at the point of a gun.
    Why would anybody think that would work? are you kidding ?
    Israel is little different or better.
    Since then youve destroyed countless homes and legitimate businesses and killed or maimed thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, including many women and children. That was a lousy strategy for winning hearts and minds in previous wars and it's a lousy strategy now.
    one might have used a phrase such as "numbskull stupidity" rather than "strategy". But then, language has a life of its own... which is more than one can say for a lot of innocent Iraqis.
    But i guess your right. We must all learn that "regime change, occupation, nation-building - call it what you will - in a word, empire -- is a bloody business.
    Bush will never admit that the big stick of Empire has shattered in Baghdad. Or that every minute US troops stay there only makes things worse, with no tangible payback in sight, only the prospect of yet another rooftop exit.
    On your question of do i hate Israel... well no actually, but I couldnt agree more with Xox, but I hate what that state stand for, Its continued violation of human rights towards the palestinian people, Its blatent use of pre-emptive strikes against civilians, its conquest of palestinian lands (in violation of UN resolutions).. as said before.. howcome there are no US tanks rolling across that border to liberate the palestinians. It boiles down to nohing more than impearialist americian wannabes. Seeing half of the worlds jewish population lives in the US is hardly supprising though.

  • ||

    THIS IS PROOF THAT AMERICANS ARE THE MOST SELFISH GREEY FUCKS ON THIS PLANET. WHOEVER MADE THIS SITE, SHAME ON YOU! YOU MAKE THE UNITED STATES LOOK BAD!

  • ||

    The reason why everybody is suspicious of the war on Iraq is that the US do not usually randomly choose a country and decide to free it from a dictator. US has been known to put in power or support dictators in other countries. Now, why would they decide to free Iraq while there are worse places for freedom on earth? Why would they lie about their reasons? Why do they decide to be so "noble"? What may be the real reasons behind such an action? The obvious answer is oil. Nobody believes that US just decided to do the year's good action.

  • ||

    It's really all about due process, people...it's easy as pie to call somebody a 'militant' after you've shot him dead. Were they militants? Who knows? They fill coffins just like non-militants.

    Therein lies the problem with killing people...the dead can't talk, so who'll be around to point out any clerical errors, should the helicopter gunships have picked out the wrong fellow? Oops...

    Oh, but I forget, it's war...and mistakes are made in war...but I must support the war...or at least, the soldiers fighting it...who are the ones making the mistakes...hmm, something doesn't work right there. Nahhh, this is completely fucked.

  • ||

    What I meant when I commented on democratization (Is that a word?) of Iraq it wasn't a simple cry for expedience, I meant what Bush has been doing is comparable to piecing together a model airplane with nails and a sledgehammer instead of glue. It's dangerous, messy, destructive, irresponsible, and gut-wrenching to behold. Even if it somehow comes together in the end it will never be as it was intended. The final product will be an unrecognizable mess; misplaced fragments strewn about with the nails that hold it all together sticking out and likely hurting someone. Pockmarks from an over-zealous pounding will likely haunt the Iraqis for decades as well.

  • ||

    Kurdistan...? Now that is a good name. Seriously! I don't know why we are so intent on keeping the Kurds part of Iraq. We separated the Muslims and Orthodox Christians in Yugoslavia didn't we? (Bosnia and Serbia) Makes no sense if you ask me.

  • ||

    Yeah, we could call it Kurdistan.

  • ||

    If you ask me, I think the Kurds in the north deserve their own nation. They don't need to be ruled by the majority in the south who hate them. Nonetheless...

  • ||

    True, they did separate themselves, but NATO helped it along and kept the wars and skirmishes from getting out of hand.

    It may be a 19th century ideal, but I don't think we should be forcing two people who hate each other to live in the same country. I don't think it is right to force the Kurds to be a part of Iraq unless they really want to... which I doubt. The Iraqis hate the Kurds and under Saddam slaughtered them time and time again. I hate it when NATO, the UN and even the US does it. It makes me angry.

    I don't know about where you live, but this is how I see it... Where I live, the city is broken up into ethnic sectors. There is a section of the city where high-class people (of all races) live. Then there is the poor white area, the poor black area and the poor Mexican area. Even within a city we do not live amongst each other because our cultures are very different. Forcing us to intermix only causes unnecessary friction and aggression. There is no need for this at all! As long as we can live in peace away from, but next to each other... I am happy.

    I am very much for Free Trade, but I don't see what that has to do with this... Free trade also means you DON'T have to trade with someone if you don't want to. My country has the bad habit of importing more then we export, which may prove to be a serious problem later on down the road if not fixed.

  • ||

    Ray Stephens...
    Your a tosser !!
    your ideas are typical americian noble, racist, zionist, outdated, ignorant and hypocritical bullshit. You have no idea of the cultures and issues facing middle eastern countries.
    Your in favour of a seperate state for the Kurds.. you really want to see another situation like Israel / Palestine, because thats what will happen.
    You ignorant fool.

  • ||

    That's funny, Ray - I thought they separated themselves...wasn't that the whole point of the war in Yugoslavia? Ethnic Nationalism? They were (violently) separating themselves from each other...the U.N. PEACEKEEPERS were there to ensure they did it peacably. It was NOT a case of US Forces exporting Democracy, as they are (supposedly) doing in Iraq.

    Ethnic Nationalism was, and is, a 19th-century political/racial ideal whose time is well past. Internationalism, Continentalism, Globalism - these are the new ideals for the 21st century. After all, wasn't it you Yanks who sold us all on Free Trade agreements-? Or has America changed its' tune yet again without letting their trade partners know?

  • ||

    tosser = Uhh, I have no idea what this is...?
    americian noble = Do you mean American? No, I'm poor.
    racist = Not in the least bit.
    zionist = Yes, but you make it sound bad.
    outdated = On moral issues... yes.
    ignorant = Only because I don't agree with you.
    hypocritical = I try not to be, but everyone is in some aspect.
    ignorant fool = Again, only because I don't agree with you.

    Oh, and you should probably say you're instead or your... what with proper grammar and all.

    Yes, I do think the Kurds should have a separate nation... but Israel is ONE nation, not two. Palestinians are in control of parts of Israel because of peace treaties, but there is no nation called "Palestine" as far as I know.

  • ||

    Chris Doran,

    Sorry, I don't know much about North American Trade Agreements, but if what you said is true, that is pretty messed up. Needs some major reform I'd say!

    Xox,

    Yes, there WAS a Palestine, but there isn't one now. I am looking at a modern atlas right now. I see Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Israel... but no Palestine. Hey I know you are anti-Israel and all... but the truth is there is currently NO Palestine. Like I said above, there is the Golan Heights, West Bank, West Jerusalem and Gaza Strip... all of which Palestinians are in control of, but there is, in fact, no nation with the name Palestine. Maybe you should take a look at the atlas yourself Xox before spouting off a bunch of flames.

  • ||

    Uh, Ray, how much do you know about the North American Fucked-up Trade Agreement? Half the clauses in the agreement state that any given country within the agreement simply can't refuse to sell to the United States as long as there is a demand for any such commodity as sought at a price determined by the economic market in the U.S. A company tried to ship water from the Great Lakes to California and under a clause called 'Chapter 11' the Canadian government had to either let him do it despite the fact the water was the property of all Canadian citizens and therefore not for sale by any entity to investors foreign or otherwise; or give him an obscene amount of money. They went with the latter. I wonder why he didn't try to take any from the U.S. controlled lakes? That's kind of puzzling. Whether this clause also applies to the U.S. I do not know, I can only talk from my own observations. This whole farce is really very sad. If it were up to me, instead of signing that ridiculous document, it would have been photocopied and sold as novelty toilet paper.

  • ||

    btw... Golan Heights, West Bank, West Jerusalem and Gaza Strip are effectively controlled by Israel, when they see fit.. or havnt you seen pictures of Israeli tanks rolling through Palestine's towns ans cities shhoting live ammunition at kids throwing rocks.

  • ||

    I never did call you anti-Semitic, just anti-Israel.

    After WWII, thanks to the aide of the Nazis, six million Jews were killed, nearly half their numbers� a devastation far worse then just about anything in human history. This can also go along with what the Japanese did to the Manchurians and what the USSR did to its own people. The Europeans didn't want the Jews anymore because they were anti-Semitic (and still are). I guess you could even use a more descriptive term like anti-Jew. So where were they to go? Some came over the pond to North America. But many were not satisfied with that. At the time, England was in "control" of large areas of the Middle East, namely Jordan and Palestine. Under guidance from the UN a new Jewish state would be made, and in 1948 the UN reinstituted the state of Israel again after many centuries... not just the US. This included France and England. In 1967, the Arab community was outraged that the Israelis had taken back their land, so they fought a war. This Six Days War was just that. The Israelis pushed the Arabs back and took control of even more land increasing their borders... BUT... they gave it back! Since then the Israelis have fought against the Palestinians and Arabs day after day. Peace is not possible in this situation. You say the Israelis march through towns killing people randomly. I don't believe that. They target specific targets of importance. It is regrettable that civilian casualties happen. I guess the Palestinian Terrorists, though, consider a bus full of school children a valid target, but you ignore this fact.

    You live in Canada Xox, the second largest country on the face of this planet. You have more land with a smaller population then any nation on earth (nearly 10 million square kilometers with only 32 million people). The US is smaller then you with a population nearly 10 times as big. Israel is only 20 thousand square km with 6 million people. That is smaller then your smallest provinces. We are talking about a spec of land in the Middle East. Israel�s neighbors all have humungous chunks of land. Why can't they absorb their Muslim brothers? I know, I know, "The Israelis stole their land." Well that isn't going to change. What I'm talking about is a solution to the CURRENT problem. Israel is so small yet its neighbors are so big. You know what the truth is. The Arabs will not be happy until Israel is gone completely and all the Jews are dead. Israelis just want a country to call their own, and a tiny spec of one at that. There are people living there now that have lived their since 1948... 56 years. Israel is here to stay and now we need to find peace, but as long as the Arabs want nothing but Israel destroyed, there will be no peace.

    And yes, I am a Zionist. Every year more Jews move to Israel from countries all around the world. Large numbers are coming in from Russia. Israel will continue to grow in number. Six million people� would you have another holocaust? Would that be a quick end to this �problem?� I bet you wish the Nazis had finished the job, eh? Then we wouldn�t have this problem right now. Not me... I'll support Israel until the end. I've even given money so immigrants from Russia can move there. Israel is here to stay!

  • ||

    I suppose I could cursorily be considered "anti-Isreali", Ray. First and foremost, though, I believe I should be considered "anti-Fascist", hence my continuing disapproval re: 21st century Western Imperialism.

    Israel is in a Hell of its' own manufacture, and has been more than somewhat successful in dragging America along for the ride. Rather than seek an equitable solution to their miseries, they have seen fit to adopt a martial stance and (self-righteously)perpetuate an ongoing cycle of violence and retribution, with no end in sight, save the extermination of Palestinians.

    Israel was GLAD that all those peole died at the WTC - they assumed (correctly) that America would follow their lead and become more like THEM, more sympathetic to them, and the paranoia they live with on a daily basis. You guys have swallowed it, hook, line and sinker.

    Anti-Israeli? Perhaps. Anti-Semitic? Never. I've had people try that line on me in the past, and I always like to point out that "Semitic" peoples include - you guessed it - the Palestinians! "Semitic" is not a term reserved exclusively to Jewry, it is defined as:

    Sem*it"ic, a.
    Of or pertaining to Shem or his descendants; belonging to
    that division of the Caucasian race which includes the Arabs,
    Jews, and related races. [Written also {Shemitic}.]

    So you see, it's entirely possible to find egregious fault with the government, and even the citizenry of the State of Israel, and NOT be considered an anti-Semite. I will go further - the State of Israel, though the centre of Judaism, worldwide, IS NOT Judaism embodied. They are not the Jewish People, just as the Jewish People ARE NOT the State of Israel. I know far too many North American Jews who are outraged and indignant over the ongoing actions of Ariel Sharon and his cronies to let myself believe any such small-minded garbage.

    I am perhaps better described as being "anti-chauvinist", Ray. We've covered this before. I am ethically and morally opposed to ANY group that values itself over its' fellow human beings, or conversely, any group that de-values human life. I see one fuck of a lot of devaluation in the alleys and hovels of Gaza City, Ray. And I also see one fuck of a lot of self-satisfied assholes living life to the fullest at the expense of Palestinian day-labourers, willfully ignorant of the chauvinism they are inflicting upon their fellow human beings - their fellow Semites, as a matter of fact.

    In any case, here's a link I found in less than a minute to illustrate my earlier point, that there WAS and IS a Palestine:

    http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/arabworld/haxpalestine.html

    I didn't look past that one page, so I don't know how political it gets, but it DOES have a number of maps, from the present all the way back to about 1200 AD.

    Just because the Palestinian people have all been herded into encampments on the edges of their country's lands, that does not mean that Palestine no longer exists. Did Lithuania, Latvia, or Estonia vanish into the mists of time after they were absorbed by the USSR? I know several people from each of those countries who would beg to differ - and each of those countries are now once again "real" for people like Ray, who need to see it in print before they're able to believe it.

    Before the UN arrived at the Partition Plan for Jewish Palestine in 1948, a number of other options were weighed, including tentative deals for relocation to one or another of various unoccupied territories including Madagascar, and lands in the interior of South America. At this point in time, in light of the abysmal odds for a lasting peace, perhaps the only way to address the displacement of the Palestinian people is to relocate them. Sigh.

    How about it, fellow Canadians? Could we give up Labrador for world peace? We could time it with adopting the Turks & Caicos islands, so we'd be losing one peice of cold, rocky coastline while gaining some yummy Caribbean real estate...God knows I could use an affordable holiday...it might even work, who knows?

  • ||

    Ray..
    Tosser means YOU'RE a dick / wanker.. whatever.. take it as you will... up the arse for all i care.

    Of course you cant see a Palestine in that atlas.. wasnt printed in america by any chance was it ????
    If any country should be invaded and the regieme overthrown it's fucking Israel...wouldnt like that would you.. Jews fighting Jews... but your happy for the arabs / muslims to tear themselves apart.. as long as it doesnt conflict with any US interests.
    empire builders, US can go take a flying fuck.
    fucking disgusting.

  • ||

    Excerpt from the Lord's Prayer:

    "Forgive us our trespasses,
    As we forgive those
    who trespass against us".

    For those of you with a Christian upbringing, I'm sure you remember those words. Don't you think God would be mightily ticked off, seeing as none of you seem willing to forgive? Or have you so distorted the Lord as to think He LIKES seeing children gunned down in the street?

  • ||

    Khavaltre your intellectual arguments are nothing but pointless diatribes based on the crap that spews forth from your media and government. You certainly have got the government you deserve and the bile that flows from you "tabloid" media does nothing to prove or disprove any arguments that you try to make, and only serve to show how hypocritical you and your nation really are.
    Might makes Right.. sheeezeee, hasnt your country fought wars where your enemies have adopted that attitued.
    Your "nuke the moon" foreign policy is what the rest of the world expects from a society who is as racist as what you appear to be.
    Im not supprised that people like you would vote for Jr. next time around.
    God help us all.

  • ||

    This one's solely for DJ there, but I'm sure some of you will probably make comments on it anyway.


    Yo DJ, if you are going to tell me that my arguments are diatribes based on crap spewed forth from the media then I'd appreciate it if you'd point out the flaws, or has that escaped your insignificant feeble mind?

    Before you go about telling me my nation is hypocritical, how about you look at your own situation, hell Canada isn't even a sovereign nation, so how dare you question our government, get your own before you go about telling us how poor of a job we are doing. Our way of life exists because we fought for it, why should we stop fighting for our existence?

    Which wars might you be referencing when you mention that we fought enemies who�ve adopted �Might makes right�. You still have failed to argue against the point. How couldn�t might make right? I argue that if you obliterate something, and you are left alive, then you were obviously right. This concept has been used since the dawn of mankind. The stronger live on, the weak perish or adapt. Ancient heroes fought with the belief that the Gods were backing them, and won, thus proving that they were right, through the use of force.

    Are you even aware of what the �Nuke the Moon� foreign policy is? I didn�t think so, otherwise you�d be perfectly aware it�s a joke, but then I always forget how incredibly dull Canadians can be. It�s a wonder many of you can even operate a can opener.

    As for being a racist I�d appreciate it if you can back those claims. Wouldn�t want you to say something you can�t take back. See, I do forgive people, especially if they are as confused as you.

    People like me may vote for Bush Jr., but I can not speak for them, I however will not be voting for him. If you even knew anything then you�d also realize that the popular vote for presidents is meaningless and nothing more than a control on the populace. The Electoral College decides who the president is. Figure these things out before stepping over your bounds.

    God help you indeed. Before you respond to this, if you�re mind could possibly wrap itself around the message within my words, read Bean-o�s post that follows yours. It�s very well said and in a very commendable way. He managed to disagree with my indignations and prove his points and amendments as well, without pissing people off. So do me a favor and point out the flaws as opposed to saying how much it sucks.

  • ||

    Hello again Khavaltre. On re-reading the posts of the last twenty four hours I realized I'd forgotten to comment on another thing you'd mentioned. You had said, 'such is the way of life. Even happens in nature, take a look at Jane Goodall�s research on chimps. They warred against each other and took land from each other.'

    Well, I won't dispute that, as I am aware of this woman's work, and you have stated the facts accurately. You are trying to demonstrate that conflict, and resolution of conflict through violence, are conditions endemic to our extended human/simian family tree. Chimpanzees ARE our closest 'cousins' amongst the apes (and people- please, I'm not looking for an argument on Evolution Vs. Creationism here). As I understand it, we're something on the order of 98% genetically similar to Goodall's chimps.

    That being said, I have also been made aware of another type of chimpanzee (Goodall studied Common chimpanzees). Apparently we're even more closely related to this other variety, by a fraction of a percentage point. I'm talking about the Benobo Chimpanzee.

    What is most interesting about the Benobo Chimps is their methods for dealing with conflict. Instead of resolving differences with violence, Benobos use sex. That's right, when there's a conflict, these apes FUCK to put it right. Given that we're even more closely related to the Benobo than the Common Chimp, wouldn't it make more sense for people, left to their own devices, acting without that bad nurturing I mentioned in my previous post, to resolve conflict with love, or sex?

    What I'm trying to say is that you can't really pick out one example from nature, and say, 'look, this particular ape's behaviour proves the worst tendencies in our own species, so therefore we shouldn't try to change ourselves for the better, as it's obviously in our nature.'

    It's the half-empty/half-full glass again. And anyway, we, as humans, ARE in a unique position (yes, animals are intelligent, too - but in ways different from us)- but as humans, we can always stop and think about ourselves and the world we find ourselves in. We all know, on a fundamental level, what is right, what is wrong, what is good, and what is evil.

    How we deal with things like right and wrong is not predicated on by things like jungle logic- it is a choice, whether a personal choice, or a collective choice. As humans we are uniquely positioned to make those choices.

    I choose not to kill, or through direct or indirect action allow(myself or) others to be killed by my fellow human beings. Killing IS an evil, Khavaltre- at least it is in my opinion. Evil stems from inequity, and I'm hard-pressed to think of anything as inequitable as denying the right of an individual to live their life to completion.

    We left the jungle a long, long time ago. It's not even clear to me that killing, that 'jungle logic', was endemic to our species' line of evolution. Whether it was or not, isn't it high time we drop all pretenses and get on with the job of learning to live, if not in harmony, then at least without incident?

    I see the glass half-full. I can see how someone else might say it's half-empty, but I don't agree. It's not important that they see things as I do, what's important is that they can see at all. We are human, paragon of animals, and we have long known that we can all agree to disagree. The resolution of human conflict through the artifice of war is wholly unneccesary, and I think indicative of a society with an unhealthy outlook.

    I say 'unhealthy', because if you consider what I said before about humans being 'inherently selfless creatures, unless prevailed upon (by forces internal or external) to act in self-interest', it paints a picture of a society, or societies wherein selfish acts are knowingly perpetuated by those same inherently selfless creatures. Perpetuated to the detriment of a neighbouring people, and indeed, to the detriment of one's own people. To the detriment of all.

    Let's be the cleverest of the apes, and give this violence riff a miss. Let's call our own tunes. Let's dance up a storm. That glass, we can agree, contains liquid, and air. We should leave it at that.

    PEACE.

  • ||

    What's this about Canada not being sovereign? Ptui. Why don't you go on and Balkanize already. It's amazing, truly amazing, the realisation of the American Dream for a tiny few. Anyone crossing the border into the U.S. knows what officious pricks the average border guards are.

    They're assholes. Something weird went down in the U.S., I tell you. Being an officious prick is now a virtue. Being a paranoid asshole will get you positive notice from your superiors. Remember the movie "Animal House"? Remember how laughable Needermeyer, the ROTC preppy was? How officious, paranoid, and not to mention racist he was? I remember laughing myself silly watching that film. And now when I try crossing the border, all I ever see are Needermeyers. Assholes. Officious pricks looking to add some drama to their lives by going out of their way to hassle people. I mean, for that sort of person, it's a sweet set-up. They get to feel tough and cool, keeping America safe, while at the same time they get to play God, one car at a time.

    These border guards racially profile Canadian citizens. US authorities have deported Canadian citizens to foreign countries for no adequately explained reasons, and those citizens were subject to abuse and torture at the hands of those same foreign governments.

    you're fond to say that if you're not with the US in the war on terrorism, then you're part of the problem. I say you're the problem, the US. The country where being like Needermeyer will help win the war against terror, or islam, however you care to put it. Come to think of it, the last three years have been like something from a Rod Serling screenplay. 'A world where an officious prick with no friends or family becomes a hero in the eyes of his fellows'...maybe there's something to that. Maybe the world is skidding out of control because of some bastard out there armed with a genie lamp and a skimpy imagination. that'd almost make sense except for 'dubya'. Oh wait, he could be the one with the lamp...

  • ||

    Oh Ray, you're such an effing douchebag...that guy talking about benobos is a looooot wiser than you, or me, or that jackass khavaltre. I really enjoyed what he had to say, and I think he's right about seeing the glass half-full instead of half-empty. He's given me more hope for the human condition than any of the rest of you knee-jerk reactionaries have in any of your hateful posts.
    Jeez, HIV? Sif? Hep C? Talk about seeing the glass half-empty, Ray- you really just don't get what he was talking about, do you?
    I won't get mad, too many of you like piling onto people who get mad. I will say this, though: you're as fucking doomed as the Dodo, you guys. You're all of you too dumb to figure out that what you've been up to is fucking TOXIC shit. Some of us don't wan't your TOXIC shit, but there's no place to stand except beside you.
    Will you please stop flinging your feces about, america?
    thanx in advance,

  • ||

    Ozzy69

    -"Jeez, HIV? Sif? Hep C? Talk about seeing the glass half-empty, Ray- you really just don't get what he was talking about, do you?"-

    I don't see the glass half full or half empty. I'll take the glass and throw it out of the window. I dislike metaphors. Everyone interprets them differently so for you to say, "you really just don't get what he was talking about" is asinine. I really don't give a damn. All I know is that if we are trying to compare ourselves to animals we WILL end up going extinct. Humans only use our instincts part of the time compared to the rest of the animal kingdom, which uses it almost exclusively. Now I have to listen to you hippies screaming out "Animals don't fight wars and kill each other... they have orgies to solve their problems." When was the last time you've watched Animal Planet? All animals do is kill each other.

    If we want to be like them then we might as well all shoot ourselves in the heads right now. If we can use that little sentience God gave us and rise up above the animals... perhaps we will have a chance... but that is doubtful.

    Go ahead and jump into you little animal orgy with bean-o cuz you love him so much. Act like animal with no morals. Have your fun. Look at the stupid glass half full. Do whatever makes you happy. While your at it, that "jackass" khavaltre and I will be acting like HUMANS and living our lives the best way we can for ourselves.

    -Here is something I wrote in another forum, but I think it applies here too.-

    The whole "terrorist" thing doesn't just go back to the US. Remember... everything we are doing right now, our borders, our governments, our lives.... all of it has been molded since the dawn of civilization. Almost 1,000 years ago an event called the Crusades took place. It was at this time that the Western World fully clashed with the Muslim World. This was long before any of us were even born. From that point on we have been fighting each other over and over all the way up to today. Nothing anyone today has done has cause "terrorism" from either side. It has already been there many centuries. We are just the unfortunate inheritors of this world, which is already in motion, and most of what is taking place is far beyond our control. The Roman Empire, The Ottoman Empire, the Dark Ages, The Crusades, The Renaissance, the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the First World War, the Second World War, the Cold War, all were a end results of past events.

    The Western World has been fighting the Muslim World since the end of the Roman Empire. It has not just started in our lifetimes. It has been going on for many hundreds of years. Do you think it will end so easily after tens of centuries of fighting? Our lives are carved out of the past and we must live in the world prior generations have created.

    What I�m trying to say is� stop pointing fingers. Stop saying it is your fault or your fault. Nothing is really anyone�s fault that is living today. We live in a world controlled by fate and the past. Some are born poor, some are born rich, some are born Muslim, and some are born Christian or Jew. All of this is random chance� a flip of the coin if you will. We are raised to believe what our parents believe. They were raised to believe what their parents believe. It goes back to the beginning of time.

    Nobody here is really in �the right�. What is right is what you believe in and that is as far as it goes. We all disagree with each other� not because of anything we have done personally, but because someone else sometime in the past made that decision for us and someone else made that decision for them. Basically� we are not in control of our own destiny from the day we are born.

  • ||

    *farts*

  • ||

    Sure you were attacked, no one argues that.
    Two questions though.. Why were you attacked ? what were the reasons behind it? and secondy, what the hell did Iraq have to do with it? you certainly were brainwashed into that one. This current conflict certainly pushes the boundrys of Laws of Armed Conflict, and in many cases oversteps these laws. Fuck.. the US usually puts people on trial in the Hague for that.
    Yep id certainly put Blair and Bush in the same catagory.
    Sure, we certainly do inherit our ancestors mistakes. The truely sad thing is, we have very short memories, and very short term interests, we perpetuate the same mistakes over and over again.
    over 100 million died from wars last centuary, which is absolutely appaling, we are well on the way to doubling that figure for this centuary, which i find disgraceful in this age. One would have thought we would have grown and learnt a little.. obviously not.
    Ask any vet from a previous war about the futility, inhumanity and indiscribable horrors perpetuated in war, read some first and accounts about conflicts, even better still, experience them yourself.. i guarantee you that you wouldnt then be exhaulting the virtues of you current adventures in the middle east.
    I have nothing but respect for any person who wears a uniform, of any nationality, however I and many people around the world, have nothing but contempt for the policy makers who have no regards for the lives of millions of people that thier decision will effect, the destruction they cause to countless lives in thier haste to perpetuate a conflict based on lies and misinformation, you dont see their sons and daughters carrying an M-16.
    how the fuck can you even vote for someone like that.
    The world certainly has been messed up by our forfathers. shame on us for continuing the decline, doing nothing to change it and leaving it for our children.

  • ||

    Cheers for bean-o and his benobos! Jeers for khavaltre and his chimps!

    Cheers for Ozzy's sense of righteous indignation! Jeers for Ray's sense of predestination!

    Cheers for Fahrenheit 9/11! Jeers for Michael Eisner!

    Cheers for freedom of speech! Jeers for abusing prisoners!

    Cheers for Hans Blix! Jeers for Donny Rumsfeld!

    Cheers for Democracy! Jeers to exporting revolution!

    Cheers to fuel-efficient cars! Jeers to SUVs!

    Cheers to order in the New World! Jeers to the New World Order!

    Cheers to the efforts of humanitarian aid workers in Iraq! Jeers to the greed of profiteering foreign contractors in Iraq!

    Cheers to the poor semi-literate bastards fighting this ficticious war! Jeers to the ficticious President who sent them TO war!

  • ||

    cheers for kickin the shit out ov people like you you fuckin canadastani basterd YOU FUCKIN OWE US EVERY LAST FUCKIN FREEDOM YOU FREELOADIN COMMUNIST BASTERDS
    we OWN you like we own those greasey wap wetback spiks in mexico you just dont know it yet you must have moose spooge blocking up your ears you ungrateful sissyboys
    oh, right- jeers for canadastani terror group-lovin homo buttfuckin hippie FAGGOTS who we should all be SHOT for treasan!

    USELESS PUSSYS. we rule, you run. some day you will undrestant WE OWN YOU. plus your all traitors to our govmts war on terror, we should roll in the tanks and put an end to your noyse once and for ever. I cant beleive you all COMMIES?? we fought the cold war for you basterds so you could be COMMINISTS?? your all too fucked up for words.

    Rot in Hell your self you a bunch of godless commie fags. plus canadastani beer SUCKS

  • ||

    True, 100 million did die last century from war, but the majority of those casualties came from two specific events... WWI and WWII. The Russians alone sent 20 million of their people to their deaths in the front lines inexperienced and ill prepared. The Nazis laid waste to 6 million people who couldn't even fight back. The Japanese did the same to the Manchurians. WWI was even bloodier because of old tactics being mixed with new killing machines. All the other skirmishes, though bloody, were nothing compared to these two wars.

    I do not think, however, there will be anywhere near the death toll this century unless a nuclear war breaks out... but if that happens we can all kiss our asses goodbye. New technology allows for more precise bombing and fewer civilian casualties then ever before... and it is only getting better.

    Our ancestors are what molded us, so it is sadly true that we are doomed to repeat their mistakes in an endless cycle.

    What did Iraq do...? well there are many reasons for going to Iraq. I still stick with the main one, which was to remove Saddam Hussein who was supporting Terrorism is such countries as Israel� and he had WMDs (which are coming to light in the news TODAY! Serine gas anyone? This is just the tip of the iceberg.). But there are many more reasons added onto that. I know you think these are just excuses, but I think they were all made to appease people who don't care about the main reason, and of course this is an endless cycle. For every new reason given, protestors just dismiss them. I say we stick with the main reason because it is the real reason.

    And DJ, I did serve in the US Air Force for 4 years of my life. I never deployed because of random chance, but many of my close friends did. They were all happy to go, happy to serve, and happy to come home knowing they've made a difference. Most vets whom despise war come from the Vietnam War and that whole terrible debacle being controlled by an idiot like LBJ. Many of those soldiers were drafted unwillingly. Like I said above, Iraq is NOTHING like Vietnam. The WWII generation (also known as the Greatest Generation) came home from victory with cheers and pride. Vietnam was a taint on this country that is finally dissolving away.

    And why will I vote for Bush...? Because he sticks to what he believes in even if it means he won't get reelected. He doesn�t appease anyone at the risk of national security. He has balls!

  • ||

    ...I turn my back for five minutes, and I get this load of shit dumped on me? Okay...let me restate my last "Cheers and Jeers" for Mr. Rohan:

    Cheers to the poor semi-literate bastards fighting this (ficticious) war! Jeers (to the poor semi-literate bastards who sent their fellowmen) TO war!

    I'd remind you to remove your head from your lower intestinal tract that you not suffocate, Mr. Rohan, but I suspect you like it that way...

    Sincerely yours,

    Yet another one of those Godless "commie' (dope-smoking, let's not forget the dope smoking) faggots,

    Xox.

    PS, blow it out your backside, you bubble-brained babboon! Things like freedom and self-determination are utterly LOST on Wal-Mart shoppers like you, you mamby-pamby materialist!

  • ||

    Oh and Ozzy69, sorry for calling you a dimwit, which I even misspelled. But sometimes I get angry at what I read and can't control my fingers, but that isn�t an excuse. Sorry again... I usually refrain from name-calling.

  • ||

    I wish I cold move to Canada.

  • ||

    here we go again...
    Ok.. maybe i should have changed racist to Xenophobic, although in reality it amounts to the same thing
    "because our government doesn't brainwash them into believing whatever their agenda is".. what a crock of shit. if you believe that then you really are a sad individual, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders, That is so easy, as we all have seen in your country... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way anywhere.

    and really.. I'd rather have Queen Elizabeth as head of state than that lunatic W Jr. with his finger on the trigger, pointing his guns at many countries. what a wanker, god how do you put upp with him.

    "If we want to be like them then we might as well all shoot ourselves in the heads right now" really ??.. do you mind ?? that'd be grand..!!!!

  • ||

    Xox,

    He was the guy that was taking the photographs. He got in trouble for not stopping his fellow soldiers. Wait until June 21st when the actual abusers get arraigned. He also got the lightest sentence because he is testifying against the others who were punching people in the head and physically abusing them... and look at you complaining... it has been one month since this has come to light and someone is already going to prison. Most of the time these kinds of cases take years... ala Kobe Bryant... Then again we might see a twist if some of these enlisted folks successfully place the blame on their officers� but that remains to be seen.

    So quick to come to conclusions just like you and your kind are about WMDs� You just wait and see. Patience is a virtue you know. Patience�

  • ||

    Oh, and a year is not just a slap on the wrist. His career is over and his life is all but ruined as he knew it... Not a good thing i'd say. It'll be tough for him to ever get another respectable job when he has to put on his resume -"Dishonorably Discharcged for the US Army for deraliction of duty."- Would you hire him? of course not.

    Oh and about the "smug" comment... that is a tad bit hypocritical and all because you yourself think you are righteous here... don't you?

    smug

    adj : Exhibiting or feeling great or offensive satisfaction with oneself or with one's situation

    I'll admit I'm a bit smug... but so are you! Your entire last statement was full of "smugness".

  • ||

    I tell you, I feel so much safer knowing that America will put stand up and put a stop to these terrible wedding parties...of course, the kiddies in the crowd were all secretly building WMDs with their tinkertoy sets. And that wedding cake no doubt looked like an Al-Qaeda training camp...!

    Three cheers for so-called "Military Intelligence". Why don't you just leave these poor Iraqi bastards alone so they can try putting their shattered lives back together? Or do you all just plain GET OFF on inflicting needless pain, suffering, and misery on your fellow men? Here's the official version, verbatim:

    BAGHDAD - Iraqi officials claim more than 40 people, including children, were killed when a U.S helicopter fired on a wedding party in western Iraq early Wednesday morning.

    Iraqi witnesses said some of the wedding guests were firing into the air in traditional celebratory gunfire.

    Lt.-Col. Ziyad al-Jbouri, deputy police chief of the city of Ramadi, said between 42 and 45 people died in the attack, including 15 children and 10 women.

    A hospital official in the area said 45 people were killed.

    The U.S. military said it could not confirm the attack and were investigating the incident.

    "I cannot comment on this because we have not received any reports from our units that this has happened nor that any were involved in such a tragedy," Lt.-Col. Dan Williams, a U.S. military spokesperson, wrote in an e-mail in response to a question from the Associated Press.

    This news article appeared online less than an hour ago. The time here is now 3 PM EST. The time in Iraq right now is 11 PM local time. That's a difference of 8 hours. Given that this atrocity took place in 'the early hours' of Wednesday, May 19th, that means that Lt-Col Dan Williams has had at least 12 hours to receive reports from the US forces involved. What's CentCom using, carrier pigeons? The world's most technologically-advanced army can't get confirmation on a massacre, perpetrated by their own troops, in less than 12 hours?

    I guess Lt-Col Dan Williams is waiting to hear the final word from his bosses at the Pentagon, in Washington, D.C. about what happened to those people in Ramadi, Iraq before he's willing to speak publicly. I'm sure that whatever the Lt-Col eventually reports, the murder of 45 wedding guests including children will somehow get spun into yet another great victory in America's War on Terror (and weddings. and children.).

    Yaaaaay! *claps and whistles* Thank-you America! thank-you for making it all so crystal clear for me- you're going to rid the world of murderous terrorists by TERRORISING and MURDERING everybody in it! Yaaaaay! Another great day for Democracy!

    Ah, fuck it- go eat a cheeseburger and keep trying to pretend like you don't care. Go fill your car with gasoline, it's as cheap as you consider human life outside the US to be. Go buy some Nike shoes while you're at it, I'm sure the ten-year-old Indonesian girl who makes them for twelve hours a day could really use that $1.50 paycheque this month. But when that's all over and done with, don't forget to watch whatever bland fare passes for televised entertainment these days- otherwise you won't have anything to chat about at the water-cooler tomorrow morning, you willfully ignorant TOOLS.

  • ||

    Ray, I am not in a position to feel smug. How can I 'exhibit or feel great or offensive satisfaction with myself or with my situation', when my situation (outrage) is routinely dismissed/discounted/disclaimed? The cards are stacked in favour of super-patriotic flesh robots like you, Ray. Or hadn't you noticed?

    Wait, that's right- you feel hard done by 'cause you're white and male in America...and surrounded by communist dupes. Oooh, feel the burn...

    Oh, and BTW- obstinacy is only considered as 'having balls' in two places- the kindergarten playground and your Oval Office. I think 'dubya' would make an excellent bully, er, leader, of kindergarten playgrounds from coast to coast. Pity he makes such an unremittingly appalling and abhorrent President.

    Ta for now,

    Xox.

  • ||

    An update to an earlier point, to illustrate the difference between reality and the skewed worldview of Mr. Ray Stephens, noteworthy apologist for the illegal and immoral Bush administration:

    To quote Ray Stephens, 'Xox, thos soldiers will be getting at least 18 years of hard labor at a notorious US federal prison called Leavenworth, just to ease your mind. And that is the worst of all federal prisons to go to� I like you I think they deserve it. Everyone involved will be punished!

    and now back to the real world...this from CBC.ca this morning. Wake up and smell the injustice Ray- fresh-brewed by YOUR purportedly-elected officials. "BAGHDAD - The first U.S. soldier to be court-martialled for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners was sentenced to one year in jail Wednesday.

    Spc. Jeremy Sivits had earlier pleaded guilty to mistreating detainees, dereliction of duty for failing to protect them from abuse and forcing a prisoner "to be positioned in a pile on the floor to be assaulted by other soldiers."

    Along with the maximum one-year penalty, the 24-year-old military police officer also received a bad conduct discharge and a reduction in rank."

    I'd say, 'told you so', but it's altogether unneccessary. A year in jail? A reduction in rank? Ptui. It's a slap on the wrist, and nothing more. Just another symptom of a country with a blackened soul, trying to look not-quite-so evil to the rest of the planet. Again.

    Now's your chance to act smug again, Ray. Ball's in your court.

  • ||

    It's altogether good to listen, and it's good to listen all together.

  • ||

    "So quick to come to conclusions just like you and your kind are about WMDs… You just wait and see. Patience is a virtue you know. Patience…"
    Yeah good one Ray... as you said you were a soldier.. i would think you'd know that you dont do a god damm thing unless its through the chain of command, and it is becoming very apparent that this chain goes all the way to the top... but just lower rank, poor sap's are going to cop the rap for this, so much for command responsibility hey.. fucking hypocrites protecting their reputations and careers, just blame the guy who carried out the orders..
    oh.. it's just another conspiracy theory isn't it.. fuck theres a hell of a lot around now isnt there..
    And your WMD's.. fucking wake up.. there isnt any, is your whole country delusional ?

    "but I'm going to wait a while to see all of the information around it before I comment" yep that it.. dismiss/discount/disclaim and delay, we have had that about the War.. WMD's, the fictitious excuses, detainee's, just about everything else.. that's just about all we hear coming out of your country..
    never the truth though.

  • ||

    *farts*

    Yeah, there's nothing like American Justice...

    *farts again*

  • ||

    Maybe this seems like a dumb question, but what does any of this have to do with invading Canada?

    Ray- your head is stuck so firmly in the sand, I'm surprised you haven't coughed up grit yet.

    Setteragic- aren't you taking things too seriously?

    EFL- I can't figure out who you're trying to skewer, though I guess its' intentional.

    And for you people who post things like 'fuck ____', or who use racists words like 'wap' and 'wetback', you're in dire need of someone to wash your mouths out with a bar of soap.

    To get to my point- america COULD invade canada, but it SHOULDN'T. not because canadians are terrorists, or socalists, or whatever, but because its' wrong to.

    I may not like how another country runs itself, but its' not my business to try to change it. Real change only comes from inside, not from anyone else. If Iraquis want a change, they have to do it for themselfs. freedom is earned, not awarded. and if they want a government that ends up telling america to leave, then america has to respect that decision and go. if not, then by all mean stay.

    I am also waiting to hear more about this wedding party massacre, and I'm also troubled by how long its' taken for centcom to respond. Are they hiding some thing/? it starting to look that way to my eye.

  • ||

    Whoa now... I even said that the enlisted guys are going to try and blame the officers didn't I?

    Quote from me: -"Then again we might see a twist if some of these enlisted folks successfully place the blame on their officers� but that remains to be seen."-

    So don't think I don't agree with you about spoiled officers and their precious careers, because I do! Hey... we are in agreement about something. :)

    And your quote of me was towards the supposed wedding bombing. None of us knows what happened yet, it has only been half a day, and so to use inaccurate news for political advantage so swiftly is not very intelligent because that news could change at the tip of a hat.

    And yes... I do belive there are WMDs. The sarin gas bomb was just the tip of the iceberg. I think most of them were buried in Syria to be honest. It is a shame we don't hear more about it in the news... but hey whatever. According to you the news, well my news anyhow, only lies to me. I guess only yours is 100% honest and accurate right?

  • ||

    You think 'going against the grain' has anything to do with real attempts at independant thought? Like the legions of Goths, a string of black paper dolls, indistinguishable from one another, you claim to be the absoloute opponent and opposite to a conformity.

    It's funny. Your answers are repeatative and automatic.

    Sheep.
    Brainwashed.
    Unable to be pleased.
    All is wrong.

    Blah, blah, blah.

    Have a nice day, read the paper, watch the news. Decide both are biased and a pack of lies because it's not what you want to hear. Decide it's true because it is what you want to hear. Make those decisions based on the station, or the specific reporter who did the story. Consider us all dolts because you occasionally do believe things you'd rather were lies.

    But never assume it's wrong because someone else whom you may contempt wants you to believe it's right, or because it would reflect ill of you or those you respect. Or what you think you stand for. You never know what you're capable of, let alone the one standing next to you.

    And don't always believe mass opinion is brainwashing, the pat answer, or going with the flow, or trendy. That's all bullshit. If it were a handful of people who shared an unpleasant opinion as opposed to entire countries full of them you'd be saying it were a fistful of crackpots and the lunatic fringe. Easy enough to ignore.

    Sanity is over-rated, isn't it?

  • ||

    YOUR ALL TRAETORS AND WE WILL USE YOUR BONES TO PAVE OUR ROADS WITH. LETS' HEAR YOUR COMPLAINING THEN, CANADAKSTAN.

    NO ONE WILL STOP IT FROM HAPPENING BECAUSE NO ONE DARES' CHALLENGE US EXCEPT MAYBE CHINA AND WE ALRAEDY OWN TIAWAN. EVERYBODY KNOWS YOU DON'T FUCK WITH USA AND GET AWAY WITH IT. CANADAKSTAN NEEDS TO LAERN ITS PLACE BY YOUR MASTERS' FEET.

    WE ONLY EVER DIDNT' WIN IN VIETNAM, AND NOW EVERYONE WHO COMPLAINS SAY EACH OF OUR WARS' ARE LIKE VIETNAM. YOU LIE TO KEEP YOU FROM LOOKING IN THE MIRROR AND KNOW WE ARE THE ONES' CALLING THE SHOTS TODAY NOT YOUR SOCIALSIT HEROS OF YESREDAY. ITS' TIME YOU GREW UP

  • ||

    Shooting first and asking questions later gives you situations like the wedding party massacre.I just read this:

    "...U.S. military officials said a pre-dawn attack Wednesday near the Syrian border, which Iraqis say hit a wedding party, targeted a suspected safehouse for foreign fighters from Syria.
    The desolate, desert region is populated only by shepherds but is popular with smugglers, and the U.S. military suspects militants use it as an entry route. About 25 kilometres from the Syrian border, the area is under constant American surveillance.
    Iraqi police and witnesses said the attack killed dozens of innocent people, many of them women and children. Some said the bride and groom also were killed.
    People who said they were guests said the wedding party was in full swing, with dinner just finished and the band playing tribal Arab music, when U.S. fighter jets roared overhead and U.S. vehicles started shining their highbeams.
    Worried, the hosts ended the party; men stayed in the wedding tent, and women and children went inside the house nearby, the witnesses said.
    About five hours later, the first shell hit the tent. Panicked, women clutching their children ran out of the house, they said.
    Lt.-Col. Ziyad al-Jbouri, deputy police chief of Ramadi, the provincial capital about 400 kilometres to the east, said the attack happened about 2:45 a.m. He said between 42 and 45 people were killed, including 15 children and 10 women.
    Salah al-Ani, a doctor at a Ramadi hospital, put the death toll at 45.
    A shepherd who attended the wedding, Madhi Nawaf, said his daughter and at least one of his grandchildren were killed.
    "Mothers died with their children in their arms. One of them was my daughter. I found her a few steps from the house, her two-year old son Raad in her arm. Her one-year-old son, Ra'ed, was lying nearby, his head missing," he said.
    "Where are the foreign fighters they claim were hiding there? asked Nawaf. "Everything they said is a lie."

    Let's assume for a moment that this WAS some sort of militant safehouse. What is accomplished by blowing them all to Kingdom come? Okay, so you take out a few dozen militants. Doesn't it make more sense to capture them and find out more about their organization? It doesn't make sense that they would kill just so many and leave without making sure they got them all. It's sloppy work, if nothing else.

    They should have tried to capture these people if they thought they were militants. by killing them, there's no one get any info from. and if the US army is wrong, then they have a lot to answer for. even if they were militants, the survivors are now able to claim whatever they like and make the US look bad.

    arrests look better than killings, and remember, there's a whole arab world who is getting pissed off about stuff like this. I'm not saying appeasment, just using common sense and not blowing off everybody's heads before finding out who you're about to kill.

  • ||

    Oh, Marmaduke? You should consider changing your name to 'David Duke'. You are an emberrassment. Please shut up.

  • ||

    Oh, Marmaduke? You should consider changing your name to 'David Duke'. You are an emberrassment. Please shut up.

  • ||

    *farts*

    *farts again*

    *farts 3 times*

    That's all I have to say. I don't think i could possibly be anymore succinct than that.

  • ||

    What... The... F***!?

    Wow, all I said is I go against the grain in my community... not EVERYONE. My community is very liberal and politically correct. If I were to live in Texas or somewhere in the southern US my opinions would go with the grain. I am surprised you were able to make an entire post about 'me going against the grain just for the hell of it' off of a one liner. I salute you in your attempt... even though it is dead wrong.

    I like the way you labeled me though...

    -"You think 'going against the grain' has anything to do with real attempts at independent thought?"-

    ...No, I don't think independent thought is to always go against the grain... again... what I said was I go against the grain... in... my... community.

    And I am often pleased at some of the happenings of the world.

    I am still amazed at your ability to take a few words and blow it way out of proportion. You'd make a great reporter!

  • ||

    YEA YEAh Afganistan was 1, Iraq was 2 and you saw the amount of protests around the world. So what would make you think you could invade Canada. I'm not saying that protests will help stop the war, i'm saying all those other countries that Canada has ties with like Britain and France two powerful nations. I would laugh the US didn't have an ally to back them up.

    HEY! LOOK AT ME, I'M UNCLE SAM I SHOULD RULE THE WORLD BECAUSE I HAVE NUKES!!

    REST OF THE WORLD:(MORONS)!! (MORONS Idiots bastards

  • ||

    Ray said, "...so to use inaccurate news for political advantage so swiftly is not very intelligent ..."

    Who said anything about this news story being inaccurate? Remember, what I copied and pasted from the CBC was this (obviously excerpted):

    "Iraqi witnesses said some of the wedding guests were firing into the air in traditional celebratory gunfire.

    Lt.-Col. Ziyad al-Jbouri, deputy police chief of the city of Ramadi, said between 42 and 45 people died in the attack, including 15 children and 10 women.

    A hospital official in the area said 45 people were killed.

    The U.S. military said it could not confirm the attack and were investigating the incident."

    So, are the Iraqi witnesses 'inaccurate'? Was Lt.-Col. Ziyad al-Jbouri, deputy police chief of the city of Ramadi,'inaccurate'? Was the hospital official in the area 'inaccurate'? Or is it only possible for the American War Machine to be 'accurate' in these matters?

    Once Washington decides on how to spin this, I'm sure that Ray will as usual, be satisfied that the 'accurate' story will have been told.

    Oh, and Ray? I'm still waiting for those carrier pigeons to finish relaying those unit reports...you're an ex-military man, how long do those birds take on average?

    I'd be laughing my ass off if this were anything but tragic.

  • ||

    MArmaduke37....
    bfour u tipe anythng laern to spel.
    Typical fucking uneducated americian... RAY, i feel sorry you live in the same country as people like that.

  • ||

    fuck canada

  • ||

    fuck america

  • ||

    This is a long message. Frankly, I don't have the time to compile lists like the one you see below, but I simply refuse to allow this persistent whinging that Canada has yet to contribute, in a positive fashion to humanity, to persist. Damn you Khavaltre, for demanding an accounting of your neighbours- for wasting my time catalouguing our contributions.

    What you fail to understand is that, by virtue of your nation's slide towards unilateralism and despotism, our people's sense of patriotism has evolved from a flatline pulse to a resounding drumbeat, in less than five years. Every time your leaders break our trilateral Free Trade agreements, every time you deport Canadian Citizens to third-party countries, every time you flout International Law when it doesn't suit your needs, etc., you contribute to our nascent sense of self-image. Why? Because who on Earth would want to be associated with, let alone a part of, a society filled to bursting with inequity, self-righteousness, ignorance, an unbridled greed? Not us, rest assured. In a twisted sort of way, I suppose I should thank you all for being the way you are, as awful as that may be. You've helped make US who we are- and we don't have to justify ourselves to you anymore- in fact, we never had to.

    We KNOW who we are...so who the Hell are you, and what do you want?

    And now, the long part of the message. I could've spent twice as much time on this, especially if I'd included info on Canada's participation in times of War, as UN Peacekeepers, etc., but a) War isn't my field, it's not even close (any other Canucks want to muck in on this one, if only to lay Khavaltre's preposterous suppositions to rest, please- feel free), and b) I don't happen to think of War as contributing to the Human condition in any way, shape, or form- but that is my conceit, and others may feel differently. Therefore: Canada, and/or Canadians have, over the years, given the world these things:

    INVENTIONS

    the light bulb (developed by Henry Woodword, a Canadian, in 1874, who then sold the patent to Thomas Edison)

    the television (Reginald A. Fessenden patented a television system in 1927)

    the television camera (invented by F. C. P. Henroteau in 1934)

    the telephone (invented by Alexander Graham Bell)

    the gramophone (co-invented by Alexander Graham Bell & Emile Berliner in 1889)

    IMax film� (co-invented in 1968 by Grahame Ferguson, Roman Kroitor and Robert Kerr)

    JAVA� (programming language invented by James Gosling in 1994)

    the screw propeller (ship's propeller invented by John Patch, 1833)

    the fax machine (also inventeded by Alexander Graham Bell)

    basketball (developed by Dr. James Naismith)

    the pacemaker (Dr. John A. Hopps in 1950)

    the electric streetcar (invented by John Joseph Wright in 1883)

    standard time (invented by Sir Sanford Fleming in 1878)

    the zipper (invented by Gideon Sundback, 1913)

    hydrofoil boats (co-invented by Alexander Graham Bell & Casey Baldwin in 1908)

    the automatic foghorn� (the first steam foghorn was invented by Robert Foulis in 1859)

    the insulin process� (Fredrick Banting, J. J. Macleod, Charles Best and Collip invented the process for insulin in 1922)

    the automatic postal sorter� (1957)

    the 'Walkie-Talkie' (Donald L. Hings in 1942)

    safety paint (high reflectivity paint invented by Neil Harpham in 1974)

    the bone marrow compatibility test� (invented by Barbara Bain in 1960)

    the Mcintosh apple (the fruit, not the computer...invented by John McIntosh in 1796)

    the electric cooking range� (Thomas Ahearn invented the first in 1882)

    the electric organ (Morse Robb of Belleville, Ontario, patented the world's first electric organ in 1928)
    the music synthesizer (invented by Hugh Le Caine in 1945)

    newsprint (Charles Fenerty, 1838)

    the odometer (Samuel McKeen in 1854)

    plexiglas (aka Polymerized Methyl Methacrylate, invented by William Chalmers in 1931)

    kerosene� (Dr. Abraham Gesner, 1846)

    the snowblower (Arthur Sicard, 1925)

    the snowmobile (Joseph-Armand Bombardier in 1922)

    the electron microscope (Eli Franklin Burton, Cecil Hall, James Hillier, Albert Prebus co-invented the electron microscope in 1937)

    the board game, 'Trivial Pursuit' (invented by Chris Haney and Scott Abbott, 1979)

    ...and my personal favourite, instant mashed potatoes� (dehydrated potato flakes were invented by Edward A. Asselbergs, in 1962).

    OTHER DEVELOPMENTS

    Credit Unions (1900) -A credit union is a co-operative financial institution that is owned, controlled and administered by its members.

    Elections Canada (1920) -Independent, non-partisan agency responsible for fair conduct in elections and referendums.

    Universal Medicare (1967) -Universal healthcare without need of any form of HMO.

    Official Bilingualism (1980) -Guaranteed essential services for linguistic minority French-Canadians.


    Canada has also been the home of large numbers of writers, artists and performers of world reknown for many, many years. Their contributions to their respective fields are numerous. Amongst these Northern luminaries:

    WRITERS

    A.E. Van Vogt
    Jane Urquhart
    Yves Theriault
    John Ralston Saul
    Robert J. Sawyer
    Spider Robinson (yes, he took the plunge and became a citizen)
    Al Purdy
    Mordecai Richler
    Sinclair Ross
    Michael Ondaatje
    Farley Mowat
    Marshall McLuhan
    Stephen Leacock
    Evelyn Lau
    Robert Munsch
    W.P. Kinsella
    Michael Ignatieff
    Crad Kilodney
    Guy Gavriel Kay
    William Gibson
    Northrop Frye
    Margaret Atwood
    Robertson Davies
    John McCrae
    W.O. Mitchell
    Lucy Maud Montgomery

    ...and many others. Consider this list as a general cross-section. But there's more than writers:

    ARTISTS

    Tom Thomson
    J.E.H. MacDonald
    Arthur Lismer
    Frederick Varley
    Frank Johnston
    Franklin Carmichael
    A.Y. Jackson
    Robert Bateman
    Kenejouak
    Stanley Cosgrove
    Marcel Barbeau
    Leon Bellefleur
    Henri Masson
    Marc-Aurele Fortin
    Jean-Paul Riopelle

    ...to name but a few. Now, onto actors:

    ACTORS

    Bill Shatner (hey it's my list, and he's my all-time fave actor, Canadian or otherwise, so Bill's at the top of this particular list, okay?)
    Dan Akroyd
    Carrie-Anne Moss
    Eugene Levy
    Donald Sutherland
    Kiefer Sutherland
    Christopher Plummer
    Keanu Reeves
    Natasha Henstridge
    Leslie Nielsen
    Michael J. Fox
    Hume Cronyn
    Kim Cattrall
    Barry Morse
    Michael Ironside
    James Doohan
    Phil Hartman
    Tommy Chong

    ...and again, that's just to name a few. Here are some Directors & Producers of note, or acclaim, who come from north of the border:

    Denys Arcand
    Harry Saltzman
    James Cameron
    Norman Jewison
    Lorne Michaels
    Atom Egoyan
    David Cronenberg
    Ted Kotcheff
    Claude Jutra
    Ivan Reitman

    NEWS ANCHORS

    (I include news anchors in this list because they are familiar faces, and perform a necessary task in day-to-day affairs. The anchors listed here are all Canadians, working south of the border.)

    Peter Jennings
    Robert MacNeil (retired)
    John (J.D.) Roberts

    MUSICIANS/MUSIC GROUPS

    Oscar Peterson
    Paul Anka
    George Fox
    Jane Siberry
    Tom Cochrane
    Diana Krall
    Avril Lavigne
    Neil Young
    Stompin' Tom Connors
    Shania Twain
    Leonard Cohen
    Annette Ducharme
    B.B. Gabor
    Liberty Silver
    Bruce Cockburn
    Mitsou
    Gordon Lightfoot
    Bryan Adams
    Nelly Furtado
    Robert Charlebois
    K.D. Lang
    Rita MacNeil
    Robbie Robertson
    Celine Dion
    Randy Bachman
    Sarah McLaughlin
    Joni Mitchell
    Susan Aglukark
    Ashley MacIsaac
    Bif Naked
    Jeff Healey
    Nash The Slash
    Ian Thomas
    Kim Mitchell
    The Barenaked Ladies
    The Payolas
    Rush
    Skinny Puppy
    Kashtin
    April Wine
    The Guess Who
    Heart
    Our Lady Peace
    Rough Trade
    The Skydiggers
    Alta Moda
    Men Without Hats
    Sloan
    Great Big Sea
    The Rankin Family
    54*40
    Cowboy Junkies
    Five Man Electrical Band
    Prozzak
    Zuckerbaby
    I Mother Earth
    The Pukka Orchestra
    Steppenwolf
    The Tea Party
    The Irish Rovers
    Huevos Rancheros
    Shadowy Men On A Shadowy Planet
    The Philosopher Kings
    Voivod
    Rawlins Cross
    The Tragically Hip
    Mean Red Spiders
    FM
    Platinum Blonde
    Frontline Assembly
    The Rheostatics
    Me, Mom, & Morgentaler

    ...that's the best I could think of, anyone I left out I apologize...

    If I see any more posts from americans stupidly braying that we, as Canadians, have contributed nothing to the intricate tapestry that we call 'Humanity', I will choose to give those posts the response they deserve, which will be to simply elect not to respond at all. You are beneath contempt, and I will not be given to wasting my time and energy on this nonsense any further.

    Good day to you all - and for those of my fellow countrymen, enjoy Victoria Day Weekend, eh? It's May Two-Four, let's get loaded and fire up the Colemans!

  • ||

    Oh, I forgot about signing onto the Kyoto Protocols, and spearheading the campaign to ban, and rid the world of, landmines - a lot of which were, and continue to be, produced and sold by American arms manufacturers.

    Two other good works brought to you by your dope-smoking, cocksucking, freedom-loving neighbours upstairs. You're welcome.

  • ||

    YEAH!! You said it, setteragic! Happy Vic Day shoutouts to all my brethren in the REAL land of the free.

    But don't forget about Messenjah,poutine, Hockey Night In Canada, Hinterland Who's Who, and Rick Mercer, my man- more reasons why we kick those white-sheeted sinners' asses in all respects!

    Have fun at work on Monday, America! I'll be thikning of you when I 'm smoking a blunt- HA HA HA

  • ||

    ...don't try telling me that canada sucks, they've got the right ideas about how to live. all the canadians I met at the SARSstock concert last summer were kind, helpful, and VERY generous with their weed, by the way, and their weed is ten times better than anything I've found here in ohio. they wouldn't sell any to us, but they insisted on sharing. none of my friends or I saw or heard any fights, no weapons, no thefts, no nohing- just music, beer, and wickedly strong weed.I'm going back there for a week this summer, and I look forward to it.
    no-ones ever threatened them except us and we should remember that. we have a lot to learn from our crazy neighbors about sharing, caring, and not pissing strangers off. let's grow up so we stop looking like borderline idiots when we're compared to them. and that guy marmaduke DID make us look stupid, he SHOULD shut up, hell, shouldn't have posted in the firs place, and I wish you guys wouldn't encourage him or her.

    wishing I could join rastman on monday,

    pincus west.

  • ||

    Sweet Jesus I wish I'd left for Canada with my brother 30 years ago. Thank you Canada for not turning insane like it is down here. Maybe we'll be lucky and you'll let some of us New Englanders join Confederation down the road. Vermont looks a lot like Quebec, after all-!
    PS Some of us down here actually DON'T hate you, so please don't judge us all by what these jokers say. they are monumentally out to lunch. just like Dubya.
    PPS Wheres the best place to get pot in MTL? Just thought I'd ask.

  • ||

    THANK GOD WE HAVE LAWS IN AMERICA TO PUT DRUGHEADED ANIMALS LIKE 'RASTMAN SAYETH' BEHIND BARS WHERE THEY BELONG. CANADA IS SICK AND WEAK, AND THEY DON'T DESERVE OUR PROTECTION. AND IF YOU REALLY WISH YOU HAD LEFT GOD'S COUNTRY, HAIRYHOUDINI, THEN I REALLY WISH YOU'D JUST GET UP OFF YOUR FOUR LEGS AND GO LIVE WITH THOSE IMMORAL SODOMITES. WE DON'T NEED A LIBERAL FIFTH COLUMN ANYWAY. AND 'PINKO WEST', I HOPE YOU HAD A DOCTORS APOINTMENT BEFORE YOU CROSSD THE BOARDER, WE DON'T NEED CANADIAN SARS EITHER. WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU GET DRUG TESTS AT WORK- USE YOUR CHILDREN'S URINE? DRUGGIES LIKE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL US HOW TO LIVE- AND TO BE FAIR, OU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIVE, PERIOD! YOUR 'HABITS' SEND MONEY RIGHT INTO EL-QAEDA'S COFFERS, DESTROY LIVES, AND RUINS AMERICA. YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED, 'PINKO'.
    THREE CHEERS FOR KHAVALTRE, RAY, AND MARMADUKE - AND THREE JEERS FOR OU COWARDS TRYING TO MAKE USA LOOK BAD ON THIS THREAD. WHEN YOUR IN CHARGE OF THE WORLD, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU SPELL CORRECTLY, OR ALWAYS USE THE 'RIGHT' WORDS. WHAT MATTERS IS THAT FOREIGNERS KNOW WHO'S IN CHARGE, AND IF THEY DON'T WANT TO SUFFER TOO BADLY, THEY'LL LEARN TO UNDERSTAND AMERICAN LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. PLUS MOST OF THEM KNOW AMERICAN ALREADY THEY JUST PRETEND NOT TO SO THEY CAN SPEAK IN SECRET TO EACH OTHER. BUT WE AREN'T GOING TO LET THEM CONSPIRE AGAINST US AGAIN. WE SHOWED THE WORLD WHAT IT TAKES TO BREAK A TYRANT, AND WE'LL KEEP DOING IT UNTIL THE WHOLE WORLD IS LIBERATED! CANADA CAN FLIRT WITH COMMUNISM ALL THEY WANT TO, WE'LL LIBERATE THEM SOMETIME DOWN THE ROAD - AND THEY CAN FOOT THE BILL FOR BEING STUPID ENOUGH TO ABANDON DEMOCRACY AND THE WORD OF THE LORD.

    GOD BLESS AMERICA

  • ||

    I just got back from Niagara Falls. I am a 3rd generation Indo-Canadian, in fact I am half-Indian, not that it matters here in Canada, but when my wife and I tried crossing the border to see the American Falls, it suddenly was an issue. I'm a Sikh. You know, one of the people you're NOT at war with? Anyhow, I was detained and grilled in a little room for about 4 hours. They seemed to know a lot about me, that my late uncle was a nuclear engineer, that I had a lapsed membership in the federal New Democratic Party, that I attended an anti-nuclear rally in New York City with my late uncle waaaaay back in 1982- the list went on and on. At one point they inferred that I was trying to sneak into the US to get a job. They kept asking to see my REAL passport, not the 'phony' Canadian one I gave them. I asked them how could my passport be phony if I used it to go to the anti-nuclear rally with my uncle all those years ago? They turned me away at the border. My wife was in tears when we went back our hotel overlooking the Falls.

    I will never under any circumstances return to your racist, fascist country. Why would I want to, anyway? All the border personnel were prejudiced and held me, an innocent Canadian, in obvious contempt. All the American tourists I encountered on OUR side of Niagara Falls seemed to be mentally disturbed and/or obese. Very loud, unfriendly people with a predisposition toward excessive drinking. America? You're welcome to it. I hope you get another four years of his Highness King George's imperial rule. I doubt enough of you will realize what's going on to prevent it, but you're fast becoming a despotic state.

    Happy Victoria Day Weekend, Canada!

  • ||

    ever seen what canadakstanis use for money? metal coins the size of soupcan lids. Canadakstanis must look at a metal recycler and mistake it for an ATM. HA HA HA stupid homo loving canadakstanis

    VKSingh you for sure were here to steal jobs from US workers eveyone tries to steal from USA you a bad liar or youd' have made it across. I bet you arab wife is all ready to drop too thats how you arab bastards get in, like the dirty spiks you have a baby here then you all pour in because your kid is suddenly american.
    of course you complane now becuase we caught you but we have all the rag heads we needs alraedy. so stay home in canadakstan we dont' need more canadasktani terrorists here anyway. Go have a good cry. and at least i know how to SPELL 'nucular'- henst, 'nukes'. oh, except i'm sure in canadakstani its' spelld 'nuCLEAR', like some faggot french word. enjoy your little fantasyland while you can, moose fuckers. your place is at your masters' feet. and you know whos' your master, dont' you?

  • ||

    I've been reading this thread for a few weeks and I just have to say,


    What's with all these sub-moronic posts? Did Arkansas finally get the internet or something?



    Seriously though, I was in Canada for SARS-stock last year. Terrific city, Toronto. Small, but very cosmopolitan, very clean and very prosperous. Good people, one thing Canadians know how to do well is have a good time.If there's anything we've forgotten how to do, post 9/11, it's how to REALLY party.



    Marmaduke ought to crawl out of his bunker and see more of the world he seems to hate so much. And he really ought to use a spell-checker, his writing gives me a headache. (It IS spelled 'nuclear' in English, Marm. That is, BTW, the language you're speaking - English. there's no such language as 'American' or 'Canadian'. Were you ever on Springer? I think you'd go over like hotcakes.)



    I'm glad we have Canada as a neighbor, they are like our good conscience sitting on our shoulder. That sort of implies Mexico is our bad conscience, but I think you know what I mean.



    Enjoy your holiday this weekend, all you crazy fuckin' canucks. Just consider we're not all pinheads like Marmaduke and Khavaltre...

  • ||

    *farts beer farts*

    May 2-4! Whoooo-hoooooo! I'm outta here!

    *farts again*

  • ||

    Wow, that was a lot to read through. But luckily I have a few more allies on this thread from when I first started.... Marmaduke37,BILLK and Khavaltre... though they are a bit more eccentric then myself.

    Anyways BILLK made a good point about the druggies... do you guys really think that is a GOOD thing? Smoking up till you can't even think anymore? I feel sorry for you guys.

    And you guys act like you are so free... 50%, that is what you guys pay in taxes... those of you that work. The average in America is around %33. I even think that is too high but we have to support all the illegal Mexicans babies, methamphetamine addicts, dopers and such.

    And about the spelling thing... I don't think it really matters much myself. What, is English like French now where we have a language police to make sure people are using it correctly or you'll fine us? I sure hope not.

    And of course everyone knows everyone want to come to America... but I'd rather they all went to Canada instead of leaching off our system. I'd be happy with that.

  • ||

    If that's the best you can manage for allies, I'm not too concerned, Ray. A bigot, a religious wingnut and that arrogant fuck Khavaltre? Sounds about as tentative as the 'Coalition of the Willing'...
    Setteragic, let me say, that was impressive. I'm no military history buff, though, so no, I can't help out. Good post though, keep your end up!
    Ray, I'm still waiting to hear the details of who the helicopter blew up. Any word on those carrier pigeons?

  • ||

    Ray Stephens,

    "Anyways BILLK made a good point about the druggies... do you guys really think that is a GOOD thing? Smoking up till you can't even think anymore"
    What exactly do you mean? Do you think that dope is legal in Canada? Do you think Canada is the only place where people use illegal drugs?

    "What, is English like French now where we have a language police to make sure people are using it correctly or you'll fine us?"
    I never was fined for making mistakes in french! I think not making mistakes shows that you respect the people that are going to read what you wrote, but that's only my opinion.

    "But luckily I have a few more allies on this thread from when I first started.... Marmaduke37,BILLK and Khavaltre... though they are a bit more eccentric then myself."
    I don't call that eccentric, I call it ignorant and rude. Their attitude is not fit for an intelligent debate. They are certainly not helping your cause. Sometimes your allies can be your worse ennemies. Besides, in forum etiquette, writing all in caps is considered like yelling your head off, which also shows a total lack of respect.

  • ||

    Marmaduke37,
    I am my own master, and you are a master at the fine art of being ignorant and rude. Your intolerance and bad attitude don't have a place here. You are a perfect example of the reason many persons hate USA.

  • ||

    Ray Stephens,

    "Refer back to my reply to Xox about this one. Ignorant� only because you don�t agree with it� and visa-versa."
    I disagree with you, yet I never called you ignorant or rude. Don't tell me I commented on their attitude because I'm intolerant, because it is not true. I commented on it because it offended me. I'm not going to let someone insult me (read their texts again, they did more than voicing their opinions, they were very insulting).

    "Respect? HAHAHA! Oh, so now we are respecting each other huh? What about all of the name calling going around� oh wait� it is at least respectful if we spell the shrewd comments correctly� right? Please�"
    Of course that if you make impolite comments, no matter how well they are spelled, it still is impolite. I am respecting the ones who respect me, and I respect myself. You can all make mistakes if you please. People will respect you less for it, that's all. They will think you think them worthless of your efforts and will not treat you respectfully because you don't respect them yourself.

    "What about all of the name calling going around� oh wait� it is at least respectful if we spell the shrewd comments correctly� right? Please�"
    I do not recall having purposely insulted someone in this thread. (exept Marmaduke)

    "http://french.about.com/b/a/008855.htm - That�s all I have to say about that."
    This man did not make a mistake in French, he did not respect the law on billboards in Quebec. The law requires him to put the text in french bigger than the english text. He didn't do it, so he got fined.

  • ||

    Well I wasn't pointing any of my comments directly at you Xox... I was just generalizing. But we have the same problem with potheads her in America as I noted above.

    And about the French thing... that is my point. The French actually have laws related to their language. They even made a new one for CD into Ce De because they want to keep their language pure.

    And British English and American English are almost identical, but many spellings of words are different.

    color > colour
    center > centre
    favorite > favourite

    Stuff like that.

  • ||

    Ray Stephens,
    In Quebec they made law about the language used in the signs because Quebec's official language is french. They won't fine you because you made a spelling mistake, but they want everyone to respect the fact that they speak french. How would you react if all the great corporations in the US started to write only in french, wouldn't hire you because you didn't speak french and didn't provide services for english speaking people? That is what happened in Quebec (exept obviously it was with english) and that is why they made laws.

    "They even made a new one for CD into Ce De because they want to keep their language pure"
    ? I don't really understand what you want to say. Are you speaking about compact discs? Could you explain?

  • ||

    I'm not Xox...

  • ||

    Woops... sorry ???

    yeah CD as in Compact Disk.

  • ||

    Quite right, ???, I am Xox. You are ???, marmaduke is a bigot, and Ray,as ever, is infuriating. Who is Number One?

    *ha ha, little "Prisoner" humour there...though sometimes this place feels a lot like The Village to me*

    Silly old Raymond, our purported Libertarian, can't seem to grapple with the idea that there is such a thing as responsible, recreational drug use. I'm completely unfazed by this, it's just one facet of American social programming that I'm altogether too familiar with. It stems from the unattainable Puritan ethic that America has encumbered itself with since day one.

    Raymond, if I were to smoke a great big fat joint with you, we'd get pretty stoned together. Remember that word, 'stoned'. Getting stoned is easy enough to do- just take any old substance, beer, pot, Hell, even water, and ingest way too much at one sitting. I guarantee you'll get stoned. Getting stoned, or drunk, is indeed a form of mental escape, a way of running away from your problems. Personally, I avoid getting 'stoned', and the people who choose to get stoned. I think it's a waste of time.

    Getting HIGH, on the other hand, is an entirely different kettle of fish. To be high, on good pot, anyway, is to experience a state of mild euphoria, coupled with (at least in my experience) an increased ability to correctly make intuitive leaps in logic, accurately read hidden subtext, and to approach problem-solving laterally or by trying to 'think outside the box', to use a popular expression. I find the controlled use of the euphoric state to be of great use as a tool for most any creative endeavour. In my line of work, creativity is mandatory. Urine tests are not.

    There has been a tendency to characterize drug users in a wholly negative light, and to this presumption I must, most strenuously, object. I really must insist that most of the people I know who regularly imbibe marijuana are mature, well-rounded, ablebodied people ranging in age from anywhere between 18 and 65 years of age.They are educators, programmers, designers, artists, community volunteers, mathematicians, editors, entertainers, engineers, and small business owners. Not one of them owns weapons, pimps their kids, robs banks, or boosts car stereos to 'feed' their 'habit'. Some of them use it for mild chronic pain as well, usually arthritic pain. Interestingly, most of them do not also imbibe alcohol, or if so, then usually rarely and in strict moderation. But neither do they routinely, intentionally, get 'stoned' on marijuana.

    Perhaps you do not understand the difference between the two states, the difference between being 'high', and being 'stoned'. That's no surprise, and I don't blame you for it, Ray- you're as much a product of your country as apparently I am of mine. Americans are told to idealize a life lived completely free of intoxicants. That ideal has held since the arrival of the Puritans, and is as unattainable today as it was then.

    I understand the mindset that sees only the potential to misuse, or abuse pot, or any other recreational form of intoxicant for that matter. I see the potential for misuse, but you see, I experience the reality of responsible, recreational drug use almost every day of the week. Twenty years ago, it was uncommon to smell that sweet-burning smoke wafting through the air of my city's downtown area. Now you can detect it even in the financial ditrict on any given lunchbreak.

    My grandmother might have thought that pot led invariably to opium-smoking and white slavery, but I'm not my grandmother. I'm tired of having to deal with an outdated code of justice that was designed to protect some terribly sheltered white people from the 'Yellow Peril' of a hundred years' past. There are no bogeymen that the USA or anyone else, for that matter, can conjure up that could possibly dissuade me from using, in a reasonable and responsible manner, the recreational intoxicants of my choice.

    In fact, I'm using a recreational intoxicant of my choosing, in a responsible manner right now, as I'm typing. Mmm, mmm good.

    Clearly, Canadians feel it's long past time we revisit our prohibition on marijuana, and you must agree, as a sovereign nation, we are entitled to decide for ourselves how we define 'drugs' in our society. Don't worry, Ray- 'respect' doesn't have to come into it.

    Good night, everybody!

  • ||

    Xox,

    -�and Ray,as ever, is infuriating.�-

    Infuriating�? Sorry, I don�t mean to be. I just want to make sure BOTH sides of the issues are heard� Maybe sometimes I get a little too� well maybe I overdo it.

    -�Silly old Raymond, our purported Libertarian, can't seem to grapple with the idea that there is such a thing as responsible, recreational drug use.�-

    I�m glad you brought this up� You see I am a Conservative Libertarian, not a Liberal Libertarian. So I do want freedom, but not complete anarchy. Now here is the issue with drugs for me. I am actually FOR legal marijuana� but against all the other hardcore drugs. Why you might ask�? Well the other drugs are just plain to harsh on the body. Marijuana, on the other hand, doesn�t creat anger or feuding� it just makes you lazy (I never did it but I have known people who have). Also, you can tax the hell out of it if it is legal, just like tobacco.

    However, like you said, it is all up to the responsibility of the individual to use it properly. Since it is not a hardcore drug, I don�t see much of a problem with it. Just don�t show up to work stoned just like you wouldn�t show up drunk� right?

  • ||

    Ray Stephens,
    "They even made a new one for CD into Ce De because they want to keep their language pure"
    "CD as in Compact Disk."
    Now I understand even less what you are trying to say. Do you mean that in french they made a law to write CD "Ce De"? If that is what you are saying, it is not true. It wouldn't make ANY sense. In french, a compact disc is "disque compact".

  • ||

    WHO GIVES A DAMN ABOUT WHAT A BUNCH OF FRENCHMEN CALL A COMPACT DISK? THEYWILL CALL THEM WHATEVER WE TELL THEM THERE CALLED. THERE SONLY ONE LANGUAGE IN AMERICA, AND WHEN CANADAKSTAN IS FINALLY UNDER CONTROL THEY WILL SPEAK AMERICAS' LANGUAGE TO. SOMEONE HERE THINKS I AM A BIGOT.

    HA HA HA!!!

    BECAUSE I SPEAK MY THINKING YOU CALL ME A BIGOT BUT AT LEAST I AM FREE TO SPEAK, YOU CANADAKSTANIS WOULD GO TO JAIL FOR THAT. EVERYONE KNOWS YOU CANT' SAY WHAT YOU WANT IN YOUR SOCIALSIT EUTOPIA, ONLY WHAT YOUR COMMINIST GOVERNMENT TELLS YOU!

    I WOULDNT' TRADE WITH A CANADAKSTANI FOR $1,000,00 BUCKS! BESIDES YOUR PLAY-MONEY ISNT' WORTH HALF WHAT OURS IS.

    YOU KNOW THERE ALL JAELOUS OF AMERICA, BECAUSE WE ACT WHEN THEY HIDE UNDER THERE PILLOWS. WE ARE THE ONES WHO STAY AND FIGHT WHILE THEY RUN TO THE UNITED NATIONS BECAUSE THEY ARE LIKE CHILDREN TO GET A BIG BROTHER. WHY DO WE ALL KNOW THIS, WHO HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE BIG BROTHER? US! AND NOW YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. YOUR A PATHETIC FOR A COUNTRY, GOOD LUCK WHEN YOUR ATTACKED BY TERRORISM WE WONT' BE CRYING ANY CROCODILE TEARS FOR CANADAKSTAN.

    YOU HAD A CHOICE TO MAKE TO BE FIGHTING TERRORISM WITH US, OR TO SUPPORT TERRORISTS, AND SO NOW WE KNOW WHAT CANADAKSTAN IS ALL ABOUT. FUCK YOUR FRENCHMEN, IF THEY CANT' SPEAK PROPERLY THE ONLY JOBS THEY HAVE WILL BE AS WAITERS IN FRENCH RESTAURANTS...YOU THINK YOU SO SMART IN CANADAKSTAN, YOU JUST REFUSE TO SEE REALITY, ONE DAY SOON YOU WILL. WE OWN YOU. YOU JUST THINK WE DONT'.

  • ||

    Marmaduck.. you moron.. i suppose there is nothing wrong with you making landmines, i just hope you are the next innocent passer by unlucky enough to walk on one.. see how you feel about it then asshole.
    You think we are all American wanabee's, you are sadly mistaken you ignorant redneck , who would want to live in your fucked up society with idiots like you and your glorious leader who cant string more than two coherent sentences together.

    VKSingh raised a perfect example about how racist, paranoid and xenophobic your country really is, and i agree.. almost all Americans i have met have been, mentally disturbed, obese,loud, unfriendly, take your pick... thank god i dont live there... but when you dont know any different then you dont know whats going on eh?!!!
    Yeah marmaduck.. one day you will own the world, just like NAZI germany wanted to.. then you'll be right royally fucked over, just like they were. god you make me sick.
    "god buttfuck America"

    hey Ray, have you seen those carrier pigeons yet ???

  • ||

    Marmaduke37,
    "THERE SONLY ONE LANGUAGE IN AMERICA, AND WHEN CANADAKSTAN IS FINALLY UNDER CONTROL THEY WILL SPEAK AMERICAS' LANGUAGE TO"
    This is really sad. I'm from that "bunch of frenchmen" and I speak (and write) better "AMERIKASTANI" than you. And you should know that frenchmen is written "FRANSHMANKSTANI" in "AMERIKASTANI".

    You are perfectly right. I am totally "JAELOUS" of you "AMERIKASTANIS" because you are so much better. What better symbol of freedom than a country that produces people like you? What a better symbol of freedom than a guy who has difficulties writing more than one sentence without the words "CONTROL", "NUCULAR", "MASTER", "FUCK YOU" or "WE OWN YOU"?

    ps.: In "CANADAKSTANI" it's called sarcasm (and in "AMERIKSTANI" I guess it's called "SAEKARZM")

  • ||

    While I do acknowledge that not all Americans are mindless violent bigots, I would like to state that you are far, far, more likely to be accosted by the mentally challenged and deeply disturbed in the United States than walking down the street of any other 'civilized' nation. And the quality of these hateful sociopaths is beyond belief! Look at Marmaduke... Hey, Marmaduke, how can you honestly believe that nothing matters when you've got a weapon you can't spell? People don't like being threatened, and in case you didn't notice, (or were too busy screwing your mother to care,) people react very violently to being threatened. All those people you think would lick your balls just for a chance to be Amerikinized *snicker* would more likely throttle you or beat you into a coma. And they'd be able to do so easily even if you had a nuke. You wouldn't be able to read the label on the launch button let alone confirm a coded launch sequence! FWAHAHAHA! Seriously, your 'literacy is for foreign pussies' policy is plain ass-backwards. Your world view is so frightenly paranoid and utterly narcissistic (is that too many syllables for you?) I fear have no choice but to find a measure of pity for you amidst my boundless sea of disgust. Get your dick out of your cousin and poke your head out the door once in a while. Just don't be suprised when you find that many your fellow Americans will also start to call you a raving asshole and will probably try to hurt you when you decide to share your opinions. Oh, and Klan meetings don't count. Fucktard.

  • ||

    *pauses for effect*

    *FARTS REALLY LOUDLY*

    *looks at Marmaduke*

    *farts again*

  • ||

    Marmaduke,
    Are you saying that we would be better off if we listened to a moron with a nuke than to a smart guy without one? Let me tell you the difference between a guy like you and a guy like me. A guy like you will sit on his mound of nukes, laughing stupidly and saying that no matter how smart you are, you are all owned by the "MAYTI UNITAD STATS OF AMARIKA" and will get nowhere, while a guy like me will study, learn and work hard, find a way to safely dispose of your nukes and get them out of under your fat ass one by one and destroy them.

    I am tired of you, your bad attitude and of your superiority complex. I have decided to ignore you and whatever you may say. I urge all the others in this forum to do the same.

  • ||

    Amen to that ???

  • ||

    Quote..

    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."
    President Dwight D. Eisenhower
    April 16, 1953

    sort your shit out America.

  • ||

    I'd like to point out one key military advantage Canada has over the US. No, it's not the Avero Arrow (and we're still bitter about that, by the way) It's our Beavers.

    You see, our beavers have formed a gigantic dam all along the south rim of Hudson Bay. That's what prevents the bay from overflowing into the great lakes. In the event of an American invasion, Canadians would flee to just above the bay, and we'd have the beavers destroy their dams, causing most of Quebec and Ontario to turn into a swamp, bogging down the American Army, leaving their tanks stuck in the mud. Sure, we'd get to live with the native folk up in the territories for a bit, but with the might of the American army stuck in a swamp, I'm fairly certain that Cuba wouldn't pass up the chance to get in a couple cheap shots. Since Canada has a couple of friends around the globe, I'm pretty sure other countries, like Denmark and England(they still owe us from WW2) would join in.

    But of course, by this point, the great lakes will be overflowing, sinking the northern, and eventually all of the united states. This leaves quite a connundrum in the balance of global power. With North America now underwater, all that is left of the US is Hawaii, which would be in control of the most powerful navy in the world. A couple little islands in the pacific would control 11 aircraft carriers and countless amounts of nuclear powered submarines. Hawaii would become an impenitrable fortress.

    But with all Candians dead, North America flooded, and 250 million americans living in Hawaii, it seems to me that neither side would really benefit from an invasion of Canada. So let's just be friends, ok?

    Slainte.

  • ||

    Ike was likeable. So was James Earl Carter...I find it truly amazing that good men like Eisenhower and Carter are held in such low regard in America, Ike's war record notwithstanding.

    America isn't currently interested in getting it's shit together. It rarely is. Getting it's shit together requires them to look at themselves critically, and not only has that been unfashionable since the Reagan years onward, I don't think that they have the collective will to overcome the overwhelming pall of apathy and social inertia required to do it.

    It's easier to semi-randomly select a third world nation to terrorize for a few months, then bugger off once the ratings (both approval ratings AND television ratings) drop off.

    If Bush and his cronies get back in this November, I fully expect them to pack up and leave Baghdad to go lob depleted-tritium-tipped missiles at North Koreans for a year or so. Hope they manage not to piss off China while they're at it, or we could be in some actual trouble - not like all those bullshit 'orange alerts' they try scaring people with.

    It's too nice out to sit here bitching, though - I'll check in later. Good to see that illiterate klansman hasn't been haunting this thread of late, in any event.

    See you guys later,

    Xox.

  • ||

    Of course America wont look at itself (and its policies), then the truth may come out.. but then it would be veiled in a cloak of "national security".. so not much point really.
    Although after 9/11 you would have thought someone would have had some balls and asked a few questions, instead of just saying "fanatical rag heads". Im still curious to hear some logical reasoning behind it... but im not holding my breath.

  • ||

    Look, both countries are equal to eachother, I might be Canadian, but i still respect Americans. Even thought their presidents have been shit from the 1960's until now. This conversation has gone way beyond If U.S should invade Canada.

  • ||

    9/11...y'know, with a few notable exceptions (WTC support staff, couriers, firemen, hapless tourists, etc.), the people who got smushed or crushed that day had it coming. We're talking the 'creme de la creme' of the corporate feudal state, the apex of unfettered consumerism.

    The companies and corporations headquartered at the WTC were, and continue to be, fuelling the flames of unhindered human greed in the world. Through the heedless pursuit of profits, these martyred marketers and middlemen repeatedly helped bring about gross inequities to the greater human condition.

    Buying low and selling high ultimately means that someone out there is getting the short end of the stick. These guys made careers out of putting the screws to their fellow human beings.

    So why should I have shed one bloody tear for these black-hearted businessthingys? I have terrific sympathy for all those who died working at minimum wage, delivering packages, fighting fires, or simply seeing the sights, but come ON - considering the place was bombed a few years earlier, these coldhearted capitalists had ample opportunity to think through the facts: a) The WTC is/was the epicentre of greed on Earth, and greed is the wellspring of disparity and discontent. b) The WTC was attacked once before. c) My line of work, or my company's line of work, is/was to profit mightily from the perpetuation of disparity and discontent amongst the body of humanity.

    Sorry if they hadn't thought through their lives of rampant materialism sufficiently enough to see the ramifications of their (or their company's) actions, but we weren't put on this planet to simply consume and turn a blind eye to the suffering of our fellows. We were put here to be conscious entities, to know right from wrong, and to comport ourselves accordingly in all our endeavours.

    I think the biggest eye-opener for me was two days after the collapse of the towers, I saw footage from the Toronto offices of a brokerage whose head office had been at the WTC. The people they spoke to (flesh robots, in my opinion) offered all the obligatory condolences and sypathies required by the occasion, but their masks of human concern slipped at times, more than enough to see the greed, the moneylust lying just behind their eyeballs. They saw the death and suffering, but beyond that, they saw the chance for greater personal profit. With Head Office all blown to Hell, these footsoldiers of the corporate feudal state saw primarliy the opportunity to scale the ziggurat of greed and place themselves ever so slightly closer to their ultimate goal, the accumulation and retention of ludicrous amounts of capital.

    These drones were clever enough to put on a good show for the cameras, but every so often you could see the corners of their lips pulling into self-satisfied smiles. I knew then, right at that moment, that Evil, with a capital 'E', really does walk among us. The Evil of Greed, legitimized by a frankly bizarre interpretation of freedom, smushed and crushed those cyphers of selfishness that day in September. It matters very little who the agents of that calamity were, or what their motivations were. What matters, and what has been completely side-stepped, is that the CEOs and their attendant cronies HAD IT COMING. Bigtime.

    If you choose to live by the sword of inequity, greed, and despair, you should expect to die by it too. Perpetuate these polyps on the human condition at your own risk.

  • ||

    *farts*

  • ||

    Ray Stephens,

    I think that 9/11 was an awful tragedy and that while some of the people who got killed in it deserved to be punished, none of them deserved to be killed. I can't say I approve of the way a capitalist society works because I don't. The reason why we get better stuff at a cheaper price is that someone, somewhere, is being abused and exploited. I don't think our sole motivation to do good work should be how much we get paid for it, but pleasure for a job well done.

    (And about the CD thing in french, could you tell me more? I would really like to understand what you mean. Just personnal curiosity.)

  • ||

    I can't find the news article yet, but I am sure the L'Acad�mie Fran�aise changed the term CD (which stands for Compact Disk) to c�d�... to keep the foreign words out. It think it would have been better to change it to DC (Disque Compact) but whatever� the whole idea of the L'Acad�mie Fran�aise seems comical to me in an era of internationalism.

  • ||

    Yes, this thread does certainly seem to be getting stale, and it looks like Ray Stephens has simply vanished...I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed in these last few months, I've enjoyed the Hell out of myself...

    Seeya.

  • ||

    yeah, good on you Ray.. "fundamental and fanatical Muslims" what a cop out, blame someone else.
    Its all cause and effect.
    9/11 was just the effect.
    Funny how many people throuthout the world were not supprised by the events, even many in your own country.
    People will be even less supprised by the next one.

  • ||

    Well I see Michael Moore's opus will indeed be seen in the U.S. - maybe a few more Yanks will finally get to see "Dubya" in the light we, outside the U.S., have come to know and loathe so greatly these last four years.

    As to 9/11, I think there was a distinct touch of Karma to the event. I do feel sympathy for all the bereaved, for the firemen, too - but I have to admit, on a deeper level, I just don't feel anything about the corporation people who got killed. They were actively part of the problem that plagues us as a species, and yes, that problem IS capitalism.

    I think the biggest tragedy of all is that all those corporate guys were, in the end, completely disposable. Just a blip in the corporate ladder, really. But those same guys made careers out of human misery, even if it was indirectly, or several times removed. Because capitalism is all about trying to get something for nothing, or as next near to nothing as makes no difference. And because capitalism inevitably involves this principle, I think it can be argued that capitalism, as an ideology, is innately harmful to the human spirit.

    Apart from that, it's just not tenable on a large scale, either. It's due to implode, as more and more of the world embraces consumer culture and puts an ever-increasing strain on resources.

    If Americq ever does invade Canada, it will be for our resources. What kicks me in head is knowing that more than half of the things produced from those resources will be useless, worthless crap that's designed to break down inside of a year or two. The rest of it'll probably get used to make cola, Twinkies, and Big Macs. What a waste of resources. Making worthless shit that no-one needs, but everyone wants 'cause their televisions told them so. People making livings selling worthless shit to each other.

    The mind recoils in horror, truly it does.

  • ||

    Ray Stephens,
    Now I understand what you mean. Actually, the "new" (since 1996) word is c�d�rom. I don't really understand why they tought it was better written that way, but it is not a law that it must be written that way. It is the way it will be written in dictionnaries. That is the purpose of the Acad�mie Fran�aise.
    I don't know if you speak french, but here is the article I found: http://www.academie-francaise.fr/langue/questions.html#cederom
    Thanks for explaining what you meant.

  • ||

    *farts, en francais, comme ca: "f-f-f-r-r-appe!"*

  • ||

    Ray Stephens,
    I read the article again and the word was not changed to protect the french language against english, but because the Academie wanted to make it a word and as such it had to be spelled in a way that made some sense, not as an acronym. Laser is an acronym, but as it is spelled in a way that makes it look like a word, it was included as it is in french.

  • ||

    FUCK THE LOUSY FRENCH PACIFISTS AND THE CANADIANS WHO IDOLIZE THEM. DONT' LIKE WHAT I GOT TO SAY? WELL FUCK OFF AND DIE YOU CANADAKSTANI HIPPIES, YOU DONT' DESERVE THE FREEDOM YOU ENJOY AT OUR EXPENSE. I SEE YOUR HAVING YOURSELFS A LITTLE RINKY DINK ELECTION - HOW MANY PARTYS DO YOU HAVE IN YOUR HOUSE OF REPRESANTITIVES, ANYWAY? 6? 7? ALL YOU NEED IS 2 PARTYS, YOU DUMBASSES. I STILL CANT' BELEIVE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE A 'LIBERAL' PARTY UP NORTH. HELL, I CANT' BELEIVE YOU STUPID HIPPIES ELECTED A GOVERNMENT OF LIBERALS. LIKE I HEARD MORE THAN ONCE, WE ALL GET THE GOVERNMANT WE DESERVE, SO FOR A BUCH OF PACIFISTS LIKE YOU GUYS I GUESS ITS' NO WONDER.

  • ||

    It amazes me how many stupid people live in Canada and America Both. I am a Citizen of the US, I was born here (I'm sorry, but for some reason, God did not give me a choice of where I wanted to be born) - I have made a life here because this is where I live. Funny, how A Canadian can stereotype ALL AMERICANS. Funny, how an American can STEREOTYPE ALL CANADIANS!!!! Gimme a Break!!!

    I bet you will find as many Canadians in Support of the USA as you will find that don't support the USA. You will also find as many Americans that Support the USA and just as many that don't.

    The reality is, MOST EVERYONE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO BASH THE OTHER COUNTRY IS SIMPLY STUPID because WHO GIVES A FLYING RIP WHERE SOMEONE LIVES.

    Where someone lives has nothing to do with who they are as a human being, how they think, how they feel, etc.

    So, stop the bashing both ways, it's reminds me of my 5 and 6 year old.

    You are. No, you are. Takes one to know one. Na na na na na nah!!!! - I'm gonna tell Dad on you. If you do, I'm gonna break your barbie doll. No you won't because Dad will spank you.

    Just listen to yourselves and grow up!!!!

  • ||

    It amazes me how many stupid people live in Canada and America Both. I am a Citizen of the US, I was born here (I'm sorry, but for some reason, God did not give me a choice of where I wanted to be born) - I have made a life here because this is where I live. Funny, how A Canadian can stereotype ALL AMERICANS. Funny, how an American can STEREOTYPE ALL CANADIANS!!!! Gimme a Break!!!

    I bet you will find as many Canadians in Support of the USA as you will find that don't support the USA. You will also find as many Americans that Support the USA and just as many that don't.

    The reality is, MOST EVERYONE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO BASH THE OTHER COUNTRY IS SIMPLY STUPID because WHO GIVES A FLYING RIP WHERE SOMEONE LIVES.

    Where someone lives has nothing to do with who they are as a human being, how they think, how they feel, etc.

    So, stop the bashing both ways, it's reminds me of my 5 and 6 year old.

    You are. No, you are. Takes one to know one. Na na na na na nah!!!! - I'm gonna tell Dad on you. If you do, I'm gonna break your barbie doll. No you won't because Dad will spank you.

    Just listen to yourselves and grow up!!!!

  • ||

    post it note..:

    some recent polls show 80% of Canadians dont like Bush and his ideas / policies
    About 70% of Australians feel the same, and almost 90% of New Zealanders.
    Pity that the same amount of voting Americians dont feel that way. then come November we all may be better off, and have a safer future without the warmonger in office.

    btw... Marmaduck.. get a life, get an education, get a grip, and fuck off. since when do we have anything at your expence.. apart from a good laugh.

  • ||

    Good afternoon All.

    I am an Iranian-Canadian. I lived in USA for 4 years and I am living in Canada now ( 6 years ). If i had to compare both countries i would have to say and i think most people would agree that Americans are a bit too self absorbed and ignorant. Education level is really low in USA, there is not much health care for regular middle class and the poor. I do not blame americans for being like that. Its not thier fault. They are beeing fed wrong informarion 24/7 by CNN, MSNBC, CBS and so on. I really do feel sorry for americans. They need to see all 3 sides of the pyramid before making a judgement. I would recommend Canada over USA anytime. Also, i would have to say Americans are very nice people. I have nothing against them, Its thier lack of intellegence and education that causes them to act the way they do. according to CNN , 5% of americans do not even know where New York is. Most of americans are not familiar to the rest of the world. They only know of only one country and that is America. And If USA ever attacks Canada, they be attacked and sanctioned by all countries in the UN. Even Britin would help Canada. Please do not waste your times and argue over something that Will never happen. Its easy to hate each other but we should learn to get along and live together. Both Canada and USA are great countries but Canada is better for a family to live or to retire. Thank you all and may god bless both Canada and USA.

  • ||

    Oh Reza, I truly hope it is something that Will Never Happen, but let's just say that I am ill at ease, what with America's willing drift away from the Rule of Law these last three years. Bush gives his people what he assumes they want - mostly, vengeance, violence, and vindictiveness. It all amounts to Bread and Circuses to keep the plebs amused, at least in his mind, but it has brought America to the brink of Despotism, and that sends a chill through me.
    I have no reason to fear a just, equitable, Democratic America - but I have grave misgivings about the apparent Republican vision of the 21st century United States. If America can flout the UN with impugnity when it suits them, bend the truth (or manufacture truth) to justify invading, occupying, and dictating the systems of government to the people of foreign, sovereign lands, then who is to say they might not do it again, and again, and again?
    It pays not to be an 'American Interest', Reza - and although relations have been frosty between our two nations of late, we still qualify as America's single greatest 'Interest', if only for our resources.

  • ||

    Canada couldn`t resist an American invasion. Last year Denmark invaded Canada and the Canadian government still hasn`t done anything about it. A homosexual mexican didn`t qualify for refugee status in Canada - he wasn`t effeminate enough. Had he lisped the board would have given him a Canadian passport!Canada is a horrible little country. It`s citizens are obese and ignorant. It`s also incredibly parochial - Canadians like to talk foreign affairs but very few could find Pakistan, North Korea, South Korea, or India on a map. Canadians are also ignorant about their own country - more Canadians know that George W Bush is president of the USA than know that Paul Martin was/is Prime Minister. paul Martin gave a speech in which he talked about the brave Canadians who stormed the beaches of Norway on D-Day. He made that mistake three times over the course of his speech.It`s such an awful country. This is one Canadian who would happiuly collaborate with any American government that invaded our little bog of a country.

  • ||

    Canada couldn`t resist an American invasion. Last year Denmark invaded Canada and the Canadian government still hasn`t done anything about it. A homosexual mexican didn`t qualify for refugee status in Canada - he wasn`t effeminate enough. Had he lisped the board would have given him a Canadian passport!Canada is a horrible little country. It`s citizens are obese and ignorant. It`s also incredibly parochial - Canadians like to talk foreign affairs but very few could find Pakistan, North Korea, South Korea, or India on a map. Canadians are also ignorant about their own country - more Canadians know that George W Bush is president of the USA than know that Paul Martin was/is Prime Minister. paul Martin gave a speech in which he talked about the brave Canadians who stormed the beaches of Norway on D-Day. He made that mistake three times over the course of his speech.It`s such an awful country. This is one Canadian who would happiuly collaborate with any American government that invaded our little bog of a country.

  • ||

    Canada couldn`t resist an American invasion. Last year Denmark invaded Canada and the Canadian government still hasn`t done anything about it. A homosexual mexican didn`t qualify for refugee status in Canada - he wasn`t effeminate enough. Had he lisped the board would have given him a Canadian passport!Canada is a horrible little country. It`s citizens are obese and ignorant. It`s also incredibly parochial - Canadians like to talk foreign affairs but very few could find Pakistan, North Korea, South Korea, or India on a map. Canadians are also ignorant about their own country - more Canadians know that George W Bush is president of the USA than know that Paul Martin was/is Prime Minister. paul Martin gave a speech in which he talked about the brave Canadians who stormed the beaches of Norway on D-Day. He made that mistake three times over the course of his speech.It`s such an awful country. This is one Canadian who would happiuly collaborate with any American government that invaded our little bog of a country.

  • ||

    I`m teaching in Asia right now. The students don`t know much about Canada. The Canadian ex-pats teaching them don`t know much about Canada either. Ireland contributes as many soldiers for peacekeeping (on a per capita basis) overseas as Canada does and is less smug about it. Both Australia and the United Kingdom took more casualities from `friendly fire` by the USA and spent less time moaning about it than Canada.

  • ||

    *squinches his eyes shut tight*

    *face set in a mild grimace*

    *bead of perspiration on his brow*

    *F-F-A-A-A-R-T-S*

    "I assure you, Ray, 10 or 20 years from now History will look most unkindly upon the usurption of political power and subsequent machinations, manipulations and rampant paranoia of Messrs Bush & Cheney. Assuming there'll be anyone in a position to write History in 10 or 20 years. Or to read it."

    "And now I must fart again."

    *frampf*

  • ||

    7 friends and I are going up to Canada this week for the F1 race in Montreal. Should be a great time. We're not going to have much time up there with the race, drinking Molson and banging Montreal chicks, but I suppose if we have a few spare minutes we might be able to fit in conquering the country too, but only if we get bored. One of my friends has even volunteered to be the governor of what would then be the 51st state, but he's a drunk so he may be overqualified. Anyway, we'll let you know how it goes.

  • ||

    "We are our own country, we are sovereign, and we will determine our leadership" then why dont you let that apply to other countries throughout the world.. including the 68 countries the US has intervened in one way or another since the end of WWII ?? christ.. the CIA even interfeared with 1972 fedral elections in Australia...
    One thing about Reagan, he never led a country to war based on lies and false pretenced. Bush will never bee seen in the same ilk as Reagan, so dont hold your hopes too high. The guy is a looser and will be kicked out.
    I think you'll find, as i have, most Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders are proud of their countries, they are just a little more humble than the average Americian, and dont need to wave a flag and sing the national anthem every day to prove thier patriotism. I think that is a good thing. Yeah, Americian patriotism is a joke Ray.. because it borders on fanaticism... similar to the regiems you constantly overthrow.
    The ony people who look foolish Ray, are the Neocons who manufactured a war, the voting public who allowed them to do it, and went along for the ride.

    "Britain is much more an ally of the US then they are of Canada. We saved them from Nazi invasion in WWII. Then we forgave their rebuilding debt. Then we helped them occupy West Germany" ??? what the fuck... I seem to remember history went a little like... you didnt want to get involved when the Battle of Britian was raging, and by the time of Pearl Harbour, Germany was deeply entrenched and committed to the Eastern Front against the Russians, so that a seaborne invasion of the British Isles would have been a military faliure, with or without US help. all you did up until 7/12/41 was give them a few WWI destroyers.
    When Russia went on the offencive after Stalingrad that was the beginning of the end. So saying that WWII was won solely by the US is blowing your trumpet a bit much dont you think Ray... but americans are good at that though.

    "Come 6/30 when Iraq will be truly sovereign", what like Germany, Japan, Korea, Cuba, Panama etc etc etc etc etc with god knows how many American troops stationed there ??
    Yeah Right.. soverign my arse.. just a military base to extend military influence throughout the middle east.. that just happens to have huge oil reserves. shit Ray.. well i suppose why not.. they got your oil hey ??!!!!.

  • ||

    Damn Ray, what does it take to get through your ego? Am I being too subtle? Fine then, fuck civil.

    AMERICA'S SOLOUTIONS OF THE PAST ARE THE FUCKING PROBLEMS YOUR COUNTRY IS INCITING SLAUGHTER OVER AS I TYPE!

    GOD FUCKING DAMN. People ask why we bring this shit up. Do you have your answer? The mentality of the U.S. hasn't changed in centuries. That's why it's brought up. This self-important, morally bankrupt, shitforbrains ideology can't even be pinpointed, it exists in business, it exists in military practices, it exists in the attitudes of the American populace. All to some extent. I don't say Americans are moronic murderers to the man, but I do say the moronic murderers seem to be able to do what they want and get other people to do it too while pinning medals on themselves. And they can shut up anyone with beef. The world got beef god damn it! Just as you probably know I can't point to a specific person or group and say removing them could fix everything, it's impossible to do the same with terrorists and terrorism. The soloution? Pain by assossiation.

    British could attack from Canada? Invade Canada.
    Soviet Union has power and a man who stole the reigns from the good intentioned is at the helm? Kill everyone that 'might' take their side. Doesn't matter who they might be. Good people who want to stop being ground beneath the upper class in the name of competative market? (The system you praise Ray. Rather than go for better quality or price on their own dime the soloution is most likely to cut costs, corners, quality, or employee benefits to achieve dominance of the market or a more enticing price at the same profit per sale. Back to the dumb assed sayings of yesteryear, carried over to today, which are the REAL problem you'd rather not look at.) Decent people who want to try another way of doing things? Formerly oppressed people who had just shrugged off decades of horrifying rule? (The overthrow of the Russian Czar for example, the beginning of the new government, created by those who knew and never again wished to experience the pain of having nothing while another could essentially own you while living off your sweat and blood, before the mass dissapearing acts and shady manuevering of Stalin.) The saying, which discounted the possibility that not everyone in Russia ate babies, was 'Better dead, then Red.' Who was willing to do such a thing as not only kill everyone who supported the alternative lifestyle, but watch to make sure nobody even thinks about 'going red' ever again? Augusto Pinochet, Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, do any of these people sound familiar? You're trying to KILL them today. They fought your war guided by your hands as not to provide anything to piss off Stalin, the ACTUAL bastard you never confronted. He turned the former communist government into what is nigh-indistinguishable from facism. It's wasn't even the same as the communism you were KILLING people and putting GENOCIDAL ASSHOLES in charge to quell. Genocidal assholes who bit the hand that guided them.

    Now it's terrorists, nevermind WHY they hate you so much, since it must be something GOOD that you do. Your soloution to terrorists? KILL! That's the damn soloution. Carpet bomb cities, disregard affiliation, and put another fucking Hussein in charge while leaving any attempt to help bystanders pull the shrapnel from their homes and rebuilding to your allies where profit is not concerned and giving them hell for being leeches when it is. Or you wanna tell me that Iraq's a Democracy now? Your military isn't going to leave until whoever winds up in charge makes the descisions your military WANTS him to make without the guns being directly behind him. The first guy, selected by supporters of the coup, didn't do so well. While representatives claimed he had the support of the Iraqi majority publicly, there was a survey in which he barely fucking registered, how democratic is that?

    THAT'S what's been my problem, how many times to I have to SCREAM it?

    WHEN WILL YOU LEARN! LEARN YOU SON OF A BITCH!

    The Big Brother shit is what YOUR country has in place now to 'protect' itself. The patriot act allows complete access to everything anyone has ever done, gathered in any means, without their knowlege. You do everything to track Arabs, Muslims, and 'upstarts' like me except brand their friggin arms. Not just minorities or people in your own country either. Globally speaking, the Patriot Act is saying 'You don't have any rights until we say so' to everyone who comes in contact with it. Threats, refusal of service, or sanctions, depending on the situation, are all viable options through this invasion of your fucking rights.

    Why is it that you can grasp abstract concepts and still bounce the same message off your bulletproof skull while spewing out the same BULLSHIT over and over?

    'Take a look at yourselves, downing on others... inbred monarchs...Bark orders...'

    Blah blah blah, I'm the victim. I'll never do right by you.

    Nevermind that you KILL people for doing the things you do or having the things you have or just because you damn well FEEL like they and everyone they've ever cared about needs a bomb up the ass. We're fuckers cause we're trying to tell you what to do... How does trying to drive home the message that you're on a bullet-train to Hell and seem to be doing everything in your power to take the rest of the world with you equate to making demands with the threat of destruction, both open and veiled so thinly you'd swear you were looking through cling wrap, to acheive our means?

    YOU'RE GOING TO GET US ALL KILLED! DOING THE SAME RETARDED THING OVER AND OVER! You know what the definition of insanity was once described as? To do the same thing the same way over and over, and honestly expect a different result each time. Well guess whose country that describes? YAAFM!

    Yesterday Afghanastan, today Iraq, tomorrow another shot at Cuba, after that? Syria maybe? Korea? Attack Dictators you actually didn't put in power first? Attack monarchs because they might go despot? Drudge up fight against the communism ol Stalin had nothing to do with in any shape or form and attack China? or will you stick with the Muslim extremist angle and jsut attack Muslims in general? Anyone who doesn't believe in the same god as Bush?

    Anybody who doesn't make the 'right' descisions or doesn't live in the 'right' way is henceforth subject to 'correction' by the United States.

    It's not going to end. This 'soloution' and the forseeable countermeasures are more likely to spark armageddon in the next decade than even ease tension for a week. It's going to be the same damned problem, the same damned soloution, The same damned thing. Insanity.

    Welcome to terror folks. It's not the religious extremists overseas we need to worry about, it's the guys trying to direct our attention to them while they set up to club us over the back of the head and run things until we can be trusted. Or until we decide to stop letting ourselves be screwed over by those stupid enough to not just risk nuclear holocaust, but fire the first shot and believe it's the right thing to do.

  • ||

    Now this I find most illuminating, this was forwarded to me by a friend in deepest darkest Arkansas (I kid you not):

    Bush's Erratic Behavior Worries White House Aides


    By DOUG THOMPSON
    Publisher, Capitol Hill Blue
    Jun 4, 2004, 06:15


    President George W. Bush's increasingly erratic
    behavior and wide mood swings has the halls of
    the West Wing buzzing lately as aides privately
    express growing concern over their leader's state
    of mind.


    In meetings with top aides and administration
    officials, the President goes from quoting the
    Bible in one breath to obscene tantrums against
    the media, Democrats and others that he
    classifies as "enemies of the state."


    Worried White House aides paint a portrait of a
    man on the edge, increasingly wary of those who
    disagree with him and paranoid of a public that
    no longer trusts his policies in Iraq or at home.


    "It reminds me of the Nixon days," says a
    longtime GOP political consultant with contacts
    in the White House. "Everybody is an enemy;
    everybody is out to get him. That's the mood over
    there."


    In interviews with a number of White House
    staffers who were willing to talk off the record,
    a picture of an administration under siege has
    emerged, led by a man who declares his decisions
    to be "God's will" and then tells aides to "fuck
    over" anyone they consider to be an opponent of
    the administration.


    "We're at war, there's no doubt about it. What I
    don't know anymore is just who the enemy might
    be," says one troubled White House aide. "We seem
    to spend more time trying to destroy John Kerry
    than al Qaeda and our enemies list just keeps
    growing and growing."


    Aides say the President gets "hung up on minor
    details," micromanaging to the extreme while
    ignoring the bigger picture. He will spend hours
    personally reviewing and approving every attack
    ad against his Democratic opponent and then kiss
    off a meeting on economic issues.


    "This is what is killing us on Iraq," one aide
    says. "We lost focus. The President got hung up
    on the weapons of mass destruction and an
    unproven link to al Qaeda. We could have found
    other justifiable reasons for the war but the
    President insisted the focus stay on those two,
    tenuous items."


    Aides who raise questions quickly find themselves
    shut out of access to the President or other top
    advisors. Among top officials, Bush's inner
    circle is shrinking. Secretary of State Colin
    Powell has fallen out of favor because of his
    growing doubts about the administration's war
    against Iraq.


    The President's abrupt dismissal of CIA Directory
    George Tenet Wednesday night is, aides say, an
    example of how he works.


    "Tenet wanted to quit last year but the President
    got his back up and wouldn't hear of it," says an
    aide. "That would have been the opportune time to
    make a change, not in the middle of an election
    campaign but when the director challenged the
    President during the meeting Wednesday, the
    President cut him off by saying 'that's it
    George. I cannot abide disloyalty. I want your
    resignation and I want it now."


    Tenet was allowed to resign "voluntarily" and
    Bush informed his shocked staff of the decision
    Thursday morning. One aide says the President
    actually described the decision as "God's will."


    God may also be the reason Attorney General John
    Ashcroft, the administration's lightning rod
    because of his questionable actions that critics
    argue threatens freedoms granted by the
    Constitution, remains part of the power elite.
    West Wing staffers call Bush and Ashcroft "the
    Blues Brothers" because "they're on a mission
    from God."


    "The Attorney General is tight with the President
    because of religion," says one aide. "They both
    believe any action is justifiable in the name of
    God."


    But the President who says he rules at the behest
    of God can also tongue-lash those he perceives as
    disloyal, calling them "fucking assholes" in
    front of other staff, berating one cabinet
    official in front of others and labeling anyone
    who disagrees with him "unpatriotic" or
    "anti-American."


    "The mood here is that we're under siege, there's
    no doubt about it," says one troubled aide who
    admits he is looking for work elsewhere. "In this
    administration, you don't have to wear a turban
    or speak Farsi to be an enemy of the United
    States. All you have to do is disagree with the
    President."


    The White House did not respond to requests for
    comment on the record.


    � Copyright 2004 Capitol Hill Blue


    --

    Kinda doesn't surprise me, I figured things must be looking pretty spooky in that there Oval Office...I am surprised that this stuff is actually trickling out to the public, though.

    Looking forward to Fahrenheit 9/11.

    Gotta go.

  • ||

    Peace and Freedom, defending our freedom, liberty and justice..

    holy shit RAY STEPHENS we are all getting sick of the same dribble... you obviously cant read, and only listen to the false propaganda spewing from the oval office..

    Those who send your military into battle often use those phrases as false advertising, to garner support for much less noble causes.

    Bush chose to invade Panama in 1989 to drive out that notorious drug lord Manuel Noriega, restore democracy, and defend American life. (US American life that is) The ad was just for public consumption. Behind the scenes, Bush paid Noriega generously for years as a CIA operative. It didn't matter that he was a drug dealer until Panama wanted its independence from the US control they had known since 1903. Who died to continue US control? Over 3000 Panamanians died and 15,000 were left homeless after the bombing. Whose freedom was defended?

    Bush chose to invade Iraq because Hussein was linked to the 9/11 attacks, had chemical, biological and nuclear weapons at the ready, and was prepared to attack the US within 45 minutes (oh please show me the intercontental missiles) we needed to attack to defend our freedom. As those claims were discovered to be lies, the ads shifted to the need to remove that evil dictator who gassed thousands of Iranians and Kurdish Iraqis. However, behind the scenes lurked a different reality. Hussein had been recruited as a CIA operative, assisted and sustained by the US in his rise to power in Iraq, and given money, weapons and technical assistance-even the ingredients for the poisonous gasses he used on the Kurds and Iranians-by the Reagan-Bush administration represented by a smiling Donald Rumsfeld. As is often the pattern, it didn't matter that Hussein was a ruthless dictator as long as he worked for US, the US government aided and abetted him until they didn't need him anymore. Whose freedom was defended?

    The real thrust for the invasion, carefully hidden from public view, is the PNAC. In 1996/7, the neo-con think tank made up of Cheney, Libby, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Bolton, Perle and Jeb Bush, among others, produced a political game plan called Project for a New American Century. You heard of that Ray ??? or do you choose to ignore the facts and now the consequences.

    They produced list of goals that included the take-over of Iraq, regardless of the status of Saddam Hussein, to gain military ascendancy in the Middle East and control of Iraq's oil reserves. A subtext of PNAC, called Rebuilding America's Defenses, extended the goal to unchallengeable US global domination, supported by a quiet, accepting electorate at home. To achieve the needed level of (fear-driven) popular support, they actually stated, would require the equivalent of a new Pear Harbor. After such a cataclysmic event, the ensuing fear would make it easy to get popular support for anything that could be advertised as "defending our freedom."

    In Memorial Day speeches this year, Bush invoked the mantra that the valiant dead gave their lives in a war that started on 9/11 (our new Pearl Harbor), to defend freedom and the homeland against the threat of terrorism. To invade Iraq to defend against the threat of terrorism is as misleading as the rest of the "reasons" proposed. Before the US invaded, Iraq posed no terrorist threat to the rest of the world; and since the invasion, most of the armed resistance is aimed at getting the US and its cohorts, mercenaries, and corporations out of THEIR country. Let me say that again RAY ... THEIR COUNTRY.
    THEIR FUCKING COUNTRY

    Instead of defending freedom, ours or theirs, US government, now run by PNAC members, is imposing and extending control. The Iraqis know it, wary after past British occupation, and so does the rest of the world. If the world's most powerful force invades a country, kills over 11,000 people, quashes dissent, makes mass arrests without charges, violates the Geneva Conventions, allows the systemic abuse of prisoners, and imposes a constitution that will allow multiple permanent foreign bases and continued foreign corporate control of the country's natural resources, then that country-any country-will become a hotbed of dissent.

    The fact that troops are fighting in Iraq is not only NOT protecting US, but is one of the factors increasing hostility for the US worldwide. It is rousing more distrust and resentment, inspiring more people in more countries to join in the effort to bring down an arrogant bully.

    To date, 830 odd US service personnel have died, 100 odd from other compliant countries, and upwards of 11,000 Iraqis, most of them civilians. And whose freedom is being defended?

    ANSWER THAT RAY... WHOS FUCKING FREEDOM...????

    It's time that YOU people stand up and defend the lives of your military personnel from decision makers who would send them to die for their own power and wealth, disguised by the rhetoric of defending freedom.

    you make me sick with your justifications and mistruths, and admire the people who benefit from it.

  • ||

    I am goddamn sick of hearing that bullshit line.

    "Have you forgotten what it is that the US has done to allow you the freedom to spout out such dribble in the first place?"

    Hey, I've got a magic jacket that prevents drive-by shootings. I've never been targeted by a drive-by yet. And you should be thanking me for the progress in the fight against cancer. All my hard work thinking up of surgical approaches for removing cancer must the reason there are new testing methods. Just cuz you did the dance doesn't mean you made it rain.

    Just because that outside of the hideous chokes U.S. commerce has put on many of us we are almost free to do as we please, (as long as it's okay with the U.S. We've had 'warnings' about things like our indecision on pot.) doesn't mean it's a direct result of your country's action. The nations of the world are not as incapable of defending themselves as you love to imagine. You were one of a NUMBER of countries fighting in WWII, the last ones to join at that. Or did you not realize ALLIES didn't just refer to the US? I'm not sure how you protected us from the Soviets when your main actions were to spread paranoia throughout your own country while putting genocidal assholes in charge of others.

    Now that's out of the way, on to what you didn't read in my post.

    I spent a good deal of time INSULTING Stalin! Remember me calling him a bastard? Are you blind? Dyslexic? Or just TRYING to piss me off? The communism that sprouted in Chile among other places, and the knockoff of Fascism hammered out by Stalin after he took over the original party were two different forms of government entirely. Does everything have to be spelled out in LEAD for you to understand?

    What part of "Stalin fucked it up for everyone" didn't you get? The part where I implied I didn't like him or the changes he made when he came into power? I thought I stressed that pretty well. I'm starting to appreciate Marmaduke and his sorry ass posts. At least then he's forgivably dense. You on the other hand, understand everything except the point of a conversation.

    Where did you get the idea I thought everyone was decent? When I said NOT everyone who supported communist change eats babies and that there are people that it's wrong to shoot? That rather than a festering scum den the average home raided and sacked by soldiers in the name of 'freedom' was far more akin to a regular family's place of living? Kind of like yours but without stars or stripes. Or is anybody without your cursed flag in their homes less than human and therefore should be killed without remorse? This in mind, it's funny to see you go from saying 'innocent populace' to 'casualties of war, deal with it' in the same sentance without flinching.

    I'm going to try to avoid my sarcastic remarks and metaphors for just a second and be as blunt as I can.

    When you think of a soldier, killing whoever in the name of American interests, you see them killing a label, not a person. The daily lives of the people the U.S. government is constantly gearing up to kill or 'free' are never taken into consideration. They...are...labeled.

    When you think of communism being stamped out in Chile, you're picturing the rescue of the poor and oppressed from madmen to the tune of cheers.
    Military forces clashing on an open field while aid is snuck into town in the dead of night.

    The true image is closer to armed soldiers bursting into a house, driving tanks up the street. Rushed support and digging in to houses on both sides. The 'liberators' are most often found pillaging, burning, and destroying lives. Whether the family suddenly put on the decimated streets supported the party or just tried to live their lives, they are in danger and suffering.

    When you think of a communist country, you see an image of souless automatons drolling about their days with no hope, their every action planned for them by a ruthless few who do so for their own amusement.

    The reality, is pretty different, especially when you consider how different governments NOT controlled by Stalin were from the despotic hell you keep falling back on. Their day-to-day life wasn't different from yours. There, that to hard to imagine? The store still sells food and candy and toys. The houses were still houses. Jobs were normal jobs. Work, play, shop, home. Like yours might be.

    Happy times, sad times, neighbours. Like where you live. This isn't what crosses the minds of most people. They don't even look to see if there is suffering, if there is dissent, if there is oppression, if there is anything other than what those people wanted in their lives. Whether it was their choice or not. They see one thing.

    The label.

    You haven't made a Day of Infamy for someone else, you were just ridding the world of (insert something to help you sleep better at night.)

    Is it clear YET? And try not to rewrite the book while you read it this time. Cripes.

  • ||

    Why the heck would we invade Canada? The only reason, so far as I can see, would be to tax the Canuckians and plunder their stocks of flannel and bacon. Taxation is something Canadians support as a measure of social progress, so nothing would change; the bacon bits and flannel shirts are hardly worth the effort.



    I mean, it's not like Canada has anything America's interested in. And who would want millions of liberals as subjects? They don't have enough intelligence or self-respect to complain when you take everything they earn, so it's hardly satisfying to plunder them.

  • ||

    Well I guess you didn�t get my joke Chris. If you notice I put little quotes around the word �support� because I was being cynical. Apparently throwing a few insults about my ability to read instead made you feel better. The joke was intended to mean you would support the Soviets victory over the US in the cold war� sorry if you didn�t get it! But that is the impression I get from you. I was simply pointing out, from your point of view, who is actually more evil.

    Now DJ, this PNAC or whatever� I don�t know anything about it whether it is real or just some fabrication of the left. Either way I do believe Bush has many plans for this country he cannot carry out because of the insatiable ability of the left to basically hound him with insults. I want nothing more then a safe home to live in. I basically have it now, but we always have to be ready for the next threat. If you actually don�t think Fanatical Islamic Terrorists aren�t a threat, then I have a bridge to sell you. If they would stay in the Middle East killing each other I wouldn�t have as big of a problem, but when they come over here and attack us, we aren�t going to pull a Spain and cowardly back out when pushed a little bit.

    And Chris, about you little cleaver remarks about the jacket that stops all bullets and on and on� how pitiable. It reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where Lisa sells Homer a rock to keep lions away� do you actually think that is in anyway a comparison to the world today? I guess the millions of people, both American and not, who died in pas wars in the name of �freedom� to you might as well just stayed home. Hey, their magic jackets would have protected them from the Nazi�s right? I mean� what are the chances the Nazis would invade anyways? About as much as a giraffe walking across Siberia according to you and your little metaphor.

    I did a little research a while back to see what countries actually have soldier in Iraq and I was happily surprised. Most South Easter European countries have some in. England of course has a few... even South Korea. So it appears that this war is not entirely unilateral� saying that the definition of unilateral is ALONE!

    And finally, Slackamore Toadgrass, You have just said what I have stressed many times above. I do not want Canada or its people. Let them stay up there nice and cozy. Let the rich pour their money into taxes to take care of the lazy. Let the world protect them from any form of attack. Let their government erode away everything that makes them Canadians. The Canadian will be an endangered species in a few decades as their borders become crowded with people who have not come to live their, but change them.

  • ||

    US should definatly invade canada and you people saying we lost the war of 1812 your wrong NOT ONE CANADIAN SOLDIER SET FOOT IN AMERICA they were all British and we beat the british at the battle of new orleans so lets invade canada screw briton we can take them on too fear us the day will come
    BLAME CANADA!!!

    Posted by: THE DUECHTIN on May 21, 2003 04:29 PM



    WTF????!! all of those "British soldiers" were canadian volunteers jackass! Read a book then argue, you are living proof (unfortunatley) that Americans are stupid and don't know anything. You know nothing, if a war came you would prolly hide under your bed you Bum-Diver

  • ||

    US should definatly invade canada and you people saying we lost the war of 1812 your wrong NOT ONE CANADIAN SOLDIER SET FOOT IN AMERICA they were all British and we beat the british at the battle of new orleans so lets invade canada screw briton we can take them on too fear us the day will come
    BLAME CANADA!!!

    Posted by: THE DUECHTIN on May 21, 2003 04:29 PM



    WTF????!! all of those "British soldiers" were canadian volunteers jackass! Read a book then argue, you are living proof (unfortunatley) that Americans are stupid and don't know anything. You know nothing, if a war came you would prolly hide under your bed you Bum-Diver

  • ||

    US should definatly invade canada and you people saying we lost the war of 1812 your wrong NOT ONE CANADIAN SOLDIER SET FOOT IN AMERICA they were all British and we beat the british at the battle of new orleans so lets invade canada screw briton we can take them on too fear us the day will come
    BLAME CANADA!!!

    Posted by: THE DUECHTIN on May 21, 2003 04:29 PM



    WTF????!! all of those "British soldiers" were canadian volunteers jackass! Read a book then argue, you are living proof (unfortunatley) that Americans are stupid and don't know anything. You know nothing, if a war came you would prolly hide under your bed you Bum-Diver

  • ||

    DJ, Ray isn't really that ignorant, he's just programmed that way. Ray is a consumerite flesh-robot, and his world ends at the shorelines. The rest of the planet is an abstraction. You might as well berate a sea urchin for its' inability to discuss hydrodynamics.

    I consider Ray to be a valuable resource, an effective barometer of current trends in American gullibility. What's infuriating is that in trying to present Ray with opposing, or alternate points of view, it seems only to fuel further entrenchment of his own point of view, but he more than makes up for it with his highly entertaining posts.

    Good night,

    Xox.

  • ||

    cananda sucks ass cananda sucks ass im only twevle and i know that. you guys are mofos. just a question how many guys are in your army

  • ||

    cananda sucks ass cananda sucks ass im only twevle and i know that. you guys are mofos. just a question how many guys are in your army

  • ||

    THE USA NEVER WON A FAIR FIGHT SO SAYS A USA GENERAL,THEY GOTTA HAVE THE MOST WEAPONS AND MATERIAL OR THEY DON`T PLAY.INEPT COWBOYS IS A GOOD WAY TO DESCRIPE THEIR MILITARY.ONE ON ONE THEY GET THE SHIT KICKED OUTTA THEM.

  • ||

    come on Ray.. PNAC.. Project for the new american century... holy shit even people outside you country know this shit.... you vote these people into positions of power, and you have no fucking idea of their true agenda...

    HOW MANY TIMES DOES THE WORLD HAVE TO SCREAM THE SAME SHIT OUT ALOUD SO YOU, THE VOTING PUBLIC UNDERSTAND YOUR LEADERS TRUE FUCKING AGENDA.

    you think you know what is going on.. as you said in previous posts.. really you have no fucking idea. all you listen to is the same old rhetoric come election time, PEACE AND FREEDOM, DEFENDING THE FREEDOM, blah blah blah.

    Quote from their website..."The Project for the New American Century is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to a few fundamental propositions: that American leadership is good both for America and for the world; that such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle; and that too few political leaders today are making the case for global leadership."

    In other words... quote from another website...

    Project for the New American Century is a neo-conservative think-tank that promotes an ideology of total U.S. world domination through the use of force. The group embraces and disseminates an ideology of faith in force, U.S. supremacy, and rejection of the rule of law in international affairs. The group's core ideas are expressed in a September 2000 report produced for Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush, and Lewis Libby entitled Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century. The Sunday Herald referred to the report as a "blueprint for U.S. world domination."

    you blindly defend your leaders, usually with your ignorance .. your Quote RAY..."this PNAC or whatever… I don't know anything about it whether it is real or just some fabrication of the left"

    YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA whats happening in your country... how the fuck would you know what's happening throughout the world, apart from the selective drip feeding of propaganda you get from these same people...
    are you are truly that ignorant ???????
    i am fucking astounded.

  • Andrew [Bonde]||

    HEy you Canadiens are fags we should take over you dick heads. there wouldnt even be a freankn war, well kick ure asses me and my friends could take your whole us wanna be country. ull never be as good as the usa. o yea i hope we take you bitches down in world war three. sincery Bonde , stafford and frankie j

  • ||

    Why, there's twevle of them, I believe...but the rest of them are soldiers, or so we're told.

    Flesh-robots are funny. Too bad they're not programmed to laugh at themselves.

  • ||

    Ray Stephens,
    http://www.newamericancentury.org/

  • ||

    The way I see it, a "flesh-robot" is a human being unencumbered by the need to think critically. Ideally suited for a wide variety of environments, performing complex tasks, and capable of self-replication & self-repair, human beings as a group are, bar none, the most efficient & economical robotic workforce possible. Capitalists realize this; the best part is that the human robot is intrinsically without value, is eminently replaceable. In the Third World, anyway...but more so now, here in the West as well, more so each and every day.

    Remember how the future was gonna be ultra-cool, with people living in domed cities and wearing silver clothes, being catered to by chrome-plated robots with cutesy names? Wasn't that a great fantasy? Well, imagine the same future, but with people filling the role of the cutesy robots. Oh wait, that's not the future - that's the present. Where's my damn flying car, that's what I want to know.

    But those aren't the flesh-robots I speak of. They're just oppressed humans. Nothing special there, that's been the status quo for large chunks of our collective history. People exploiting people. Standard operating procedure. Or is it?

    I said before that a flesh-robot is unencumbered by the need for critical thought. They live, work, sleep, they consume, their time is spent variously occupied. Ray suggested earlier that I refer to people as 'flesh-robots' in order to denigrate them for having a point of view opposed to, or different than, my own - and further, that to oppose me is to imply ignorance of one's own ideology. Ugh, that reads horribly. Serves me right for trying to address Ray's statement, I've spent ten minutes trying to puzzle that one out.

    Anyway, I don't call them, or HIM, really, 'flesh-robots' because they aren't aware of their ideology - ideology is part of the problem! Ideology is just another layer of programming. I do mean to denigrate when I use the term, but believe me when I say I use it really in only the most wistful of ways. I derive no great pleasure in the tragicomic follies of a species collapsing in on itself.

    A flesh-robot can't conceive of any day being perceptibly different than any other day, apart from the usual socially-proscribed calendar events. The life they live is essentially static...structured, with layer upon layer of social programming subconsciously entreating to entrench the status quo.

    It is an idealistic image, a world unmarred by tragedy, a life unfettered by the concerns and needs and mistrust and hatred of others. It is America-As-Never-Was, a mythical time and place that never actually existed. This has created a certain quality of unrealistic expectation on the part of flesh-robots. An unrealistic expectation to be able to live life in a detached manner, unaware, the outside world merely an abstraction. To be free from having to consider life and their relationship with it. Free from considering the probable outcome of their actions. Free to simply be, unthinking, like some herd animal in a pasture. To be free from thought itself.

    "Thinking is hard"
    "Heh heh heh heh heh You said, 'hard'"
    "Oh yeah"

    -Beavis & Butthead.

  • ||

    Xox,
    "Where's my damn flying car, that's what I want to know"
    If you have half a million dollars and are willing to wait a few years, you can pre-order a flying car from http://www.moller.com/ .

  • ||

    It's not the car, it's the principle.

  • ||

    Thanks for the link, ???, but I actually prefer public transit. Setteragic is right, it's the principle...things were supposed to be all space-age and cool, for everybody.

  • ||

    I know, I just tought that it was funny. We still do not have achieved world peace, world prosperity, we still use gas, we don't have bases on mars, we have not established contact with aliens, but we are going to have flying cars. Yes, they are faster, but really, what's the point? For what they cost, you might as well buy a small plane.

  • ||

    Now that I can agree with. I've been asking, "Where's the flying cars" for four years. But then again, if you go by Back to the Future rules, you won't see them till 2015! ;) Nah just kidding. I prefer a small gas efficient car because gas is so damn expensive these days!

  • ||

    This is a response to " Canada Sucks Ass". okay there, first of all calm down. 2nd of all ur only 12. SHHHH go play ur game cube. 3rd of all. USA wont invade Canada. The only way that is ever gonna happen is IF USA was dyin out of thrist and lack of water and there was no more space for an american to live. both canada and usa are great countries. Yes most canadians do not like americans. I mean most people in the world do not like americans. Thats just the way it is and who cares which country is better. At the end we are all gonna be dead and none of these would even matter. one more thing, If USA ever invades Canada, i would find it really hard to immagine for them to live here. Its too cold and what good does a land have when its frozen for 8 months of the year ( Except BC south Coast ). I am a Canadian and i love canada. I also love america. It is just politics that sparks stupid conversations about invading countries. Lets stop arguin over who and where and when canada will be invaded and spend some time talkin about more important issues Like Education, Cancer, Violence. Things that make a difference in everyones life

  • ||

    June 17, 2004
    iranian.com

    Last Saturday (June 12) writer and film maker Mahin Bahrami was unable to attend the screening of her films at the iranian.com film festival in San Francisco because of harrassment by American customs officers at the U.S.-Canadian border. This is her description of what happened.

    I checked in at the airline counter and from there I was directed towards the United States Immigration and Paranoia entry point where a row of bored officers, guarded by their cubicles, signaled US bound travelers to come forward for inquiry. Pulling a small luggage with one hand and clutching my passport, ticket and a copy of the National Geographic with my other hand, I stepped forward to face the Freedom Fighting Automaton (FFA).

    In general, it is not recommended to exercise curiosity in the presence of an FFA, as I learnt soon after answering the questions regarding my occupation overseas. I was asked what I do in the Middle East to which I simply replied, "I write." I was then asked about the subject. I looked at the automaton's face and the first word that came to my mind was "Paranoia".

    Curious to see how his face would contort after hearing that word I decided to make it my answer. And well, as expected, the facial contortion turned out to be quite amusing, however, from that moment on everything started going downhill. The fact that I had been to the Middle East made me an instant criminal or at least contaminated by the Middle Eastern virus and therefore I was directed into the criminals' section for further interrogation.

    I opened the door with the "Customs" sign on it and was rudely ordered to stay outside until my name was called. So I did. Upon entering the interrogation room a second time I saw three officers behind their respective counters. An obese Black man, an obese Hispanic woman, and a White man from the Mid-West. I was pointed towards the Hispanic officer who slipped a form over the counter and ordered me to fill it out, outside.

    Annoyed by the paranoiac border procedure, I looked at my watch and was relieved to find that I had another two hours to be "insulted" before departure time. I then found myself in the challenging position of proving disassociation with the Axis of Evil. Without choice I stepped into their dehumanization tunnel and started answering their intruding questions one by one. I was a trapped traveler forced to reveal personal information ranging from parental to educational to physical data, on paper, to be viewed by strangers.

    Being a normal human I was naturally upset for the unexpected intrusion into my private life. My personal integrity would not allow me to sheepishly submit to the newly installed Big Brother screening procedure at the American customs depot. I left parts of the intrusion form blank and handed it back to the Hispanic woman. She seemed happy to please Big Brother as she dutifully began feeding its huge database more freshly caught raw human data.

    While Big Brother was devouring my humanity I began looking about curiously and observed the interrogation room. I noticed an electronic finger printing device and a webcam sitting next to each of the Freedom Fighting Klingons' computer. I took the liberty to ask if what they were doing was internationally legal.

    Lo and behold! As if I had insulted the Great Master of the Universe, the loyal guardians of the United States of Klingons stared at me with incredible awe mixed with anger. Demanding immediate submission and respect for Big Brother, the Mexican Klingon angrily replied: "The American Congress does not pass any laws unless it is internationally legal!"

    Right, she must have just learnt the word Congress last week in order to pass the American citizenship test, I thought to myself.

    I started looking about the room again and walked over to a side wall to read a large paranoiac declaration on the wall. As I was looking at the picture of the Great Master of Universe, Super Klingon himself, George W. Bush, and pictures of two other sub-Klingons on each side, I was ordered to stop exercising my human curiosity and return to the interrogation counter.

    Back in the tunnel, apparently Big Brother was not happy that I had not completed the intrusion form and demanded more personal information from my past and present life.

    Unable to endure the sub-human treatment I asked, "Is this how everyone is treated or is the treatment only reserved for the descendants of the Babylonian empire?" I don't think my question fit their room-temperature IQ level and so I dropped down five notches and stated: "It used to be quite easy to travel into the U.S. as a Canadian. It sure has changed since the last time I was here."

    As the Mexican Klingon continued squeezing more information out of me I began to feel nauseous. To calm myself down I took out my National Geographic magazine, laid it out on the counter and began reading it. Wondering how long the nonsense would drag on, I listened as she took it to the next level and began reciting a statement of oath. She essentially asked me to swear to a supernatural being that the personal information, unlawfully extracted from a helpless traveler and conveniently used to feed Big Brother's insatiable appetite, was pure and authentic.

    The next moment I was being lectured by the Klingon from the Mid-West sitting at the next counter. I was told that I was being disrespectful to Big Brother first by entering the room in a nonchalant manner, then by walking about curiously and not paying attention when the statement of oath was read and worst of all for not raising my hand. I explained to them that as a Canadian visitor, who grew up just 30 kilometers away, I and my family have crossed this border into the U.S. numerous times in the past and we have never been interrogated in this manner before.

    I said that I am merely observing and curious to know how things have changed. Finally I have never had to take an oath so I'm not familiar with the procedure. Then another Spanish speaking Klingon, who seemed to be the leader of the pack, appeared and gave me another lecture in support of the American Congress and their superiority in decision making. A few more of them entered the room, conversing in Spanish rather freely. Pretty soon I realized the place was being run by a bunch of Mexican immigrants-recently-turned-citizens.

    Things had definitely changed since I had left North America some five years ago. I could imagine Chinese Americans as border patrols. I could see Black Americans as border patrols. But the irony of Mexicans guarding the borders of the United States of America was too much to handle. I had flashes of Mexicans running across the freeway near the Tiajuana border and getting shot by white American border patrols. Putting myself in their shoes now it must have felt wonderful to shoot at instead of being shot at, for once.

    After another long waiting period I was ordered to take my luggage over to an inspection point and comply with the dissection procedure. As another Mexican inspector rummaged through my belongings and continued with the interrogation I started to wonder whether the three-day trip to the U.S. was worth the dehumanization process. I told the officer that I'm considering canceling my trip to California to which he replied, "Oh no. Don't do that." Assuming that he meant the silliness was about to end and that I would be permitted entry, I complied.

    In a few minutes I was told to pack up and go back to the interrogation room. By then I had missed my flight, however, I was assured that I would be able to take the next flight. The Mexican woman continued interrogating and feeding Big Brother.

    After three hours of questioning, inspection, waiting and complying with their stupidity, in addition to doing my best to convince them that I was of no threat to American lives nor jobs, they conveniently and audaciously concluded that I was unfit to enter the United States of America because I may steal their jobs. This is despite knowing that I had already lived in the U.S. as a Canadian employee in California a few years ago, working for reputable American corporations and that I left behind a successful American life because I couldn't tolerate their consumerism mentality.

    The purpose of my three-day visit was to visit a friend in the U.S. and I had only come back to Canada for a family reunion. I was due to go back to the Middle East within two weeks. Yet my reasoning and evidence was not satisfactory. Their irrationality and sub-human treatment of visitors made me decide never to seek entry to America until a sense of reason and humanity is brought back to that country.

    For as long as Americans continue living in a state of paranoia they will only succeed in isolating themselves from the rest of the world, promoting anti-Americanism and risking collapse from within. Their paranoiac behavior will only persuade rational individuals to boycott America in every way possible and live to tell others about their awful experiences. I am not sure when sanity will return to the American psyche but I will not hold my breath till then.

  • ||

    typical..
    what else would you expect from the United States of Paranoia ?

  • ||

    The following was taken from a book on 9/11

    before 9/11 the united states made me proud to be an american,after 9/11 canada made me proud to a human being.

    this was in reference to all the help canada provided to passengers of planes diverted to canada.we fed them,seen to thier medical needs,housed them and comforted their spirit.

  • ||

    now for the dick brain who said the usa won ww2 wrong,any general,even an idiot like patton would tell you the russians did.

    note: canadian trops were the only troops to take all their objectives on dday

  • ||

    I came across this marvellous ditty some time ago, but I thought I'd share the lyrics with you. I also found a wonderful flash video that someone made to accompany (a slightly edited version of) it.
    What's missing from the flash version is the verse adapted from 'Wig in a Box' from the movie 'Hedwig and the Angry Inch', but the video doesn't suffer too much from its' exclusion.
    Here's the link, anyway:

    http://www.bushflash.com/animation.html

    It's the topmost link on the page, clearly marked. I honestly enjoyed the Hell out of it. You may, too...!

    Here're the complete lyrics:

    The Idiot Son Of An Asshole (lyrics by NOFX)

    Not smart, a C student,
    And that's after buying his way into school,
    Beady eyes, kinda dyslexic,
    Can he read? No one's really quite sure,
    He signs stuff and he executes people,
    Maybe that's why, he doesn't have any friends,
    Cocaine and a little drunk driving,
    Doesn't matter, when you're the Commander-in-Chief!

    (REFRAIN)

    Idiot son of an asshole
    He's the idiot son of an asshole
    Idiot son of an asshole
    He's the idiot son of an asshole

    I put on some make-up - turn on the 8-Track,
    I'm putting the wig back on the shelf,
    Suddenly I'm the President of the United States,
    But then I wake up, and realize I'm still lame.

    He's too dumb to eat pretzels, apparently
    smart enough to fix an election,
    Moved boldly into the White House,
    but most people voted against him,
    He likes naps, He really likes naptime,
    A couple of naps and then a nap and then he's ready for bed,
    He may be from Bush descent, but he's always gonna be the Unpresident.

    Idiot son of an asshole
    He's the idiot son of an asshole
    Idiot son of an asshole
    He's the idiot son of an asshole
    Idiot son of an asshole
    He's the idiot son of an asshole

    He's our president!

  • ||

    for all of you that like to bad canadian soldiers,here what 12 guys can do.this is the same army the germans were not to crazy about fighting...enjoy

    FIREFIGHT AT THE MEDAK POCKET

    Ottawa will honour Canadians who took part in a little-known battle

    MICHAEL SNIDER with SEAN M. MALONEY



    In September, 1993, Canadian troops stationed in an area of Croatia known as Vojna Krajina engaged in a fierce battle with Croatian forces attacking a predominantly Serb enclave. The engagement, little known outside of military circles, was not publicized by the Canadian government, which was hesitant to draw attention to the increasing dangers the country's troops were facing abroad. But this December, Ottawa will finally honour the soldiers who took part in that firefight by presenting them with a unit commendation. Maclean's tells the story of the battle:

    PTE. SCOTT LeBLANC'S machine gun jackhammered against his shoulder as he fired at the Croatian troops dug in 150 metres away. Grenades exploded around him; bullets and orange tracer-fire screamed through the smoky air. The Croatians hammered the Canadians for 15 hours straight -- thinking the 30 soldiers from the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry would buckle and run like other UN peacekeepers had often done. But the Canadians, members of one of three platoons making up the Patricia's Charlie Company, held their ground. "They're trying to flank us," LeBlanc's section leader barked, sending a jolt of adrenalin through LeBlanc's exhausted body. Standing halfway out of his trench, the 19-year-old reservist swung his gun around and opened fire on the Croatians. "We could see muzzle flashes and threw everything we had at them," recalls LeBlanc, now a 28-year-old lieutenant who has just returned from Afghanistan. "After that, everything got real quiet."

    The fierce battle took place in September, 1993, about a year and a half after Canadian peacekeepers had first arrived in the former Yugoslavia. Vicious fighting and appalling acts of ethnic cleansing made their task of disarming and separating the various combatants nearly impossible. Especially volatile was one mountainous region of Croatia called Vojna Krajina, or Military Frontier, home to an isolated pocket of some 500,000 Serbs. Fiercely nationalistic, the Krajina Serbs began to drive out Croats. But on Sept. 9, Croatian Commander Rahim Ademi launched an attack to capture an area of Serb-controlled territory in Krajina called the Medak Pocket. The UN, fearing that 400 Serbs living in four unprotected villages in the area were at risk of being slaughtered by Croatian troops, ordered the Patricia's into the area -- and into the biggest firefight Canadian forces had been involved in since Korea.

    Five months into a six-month tour of duty, the Canadians were led by Lt.-Col. James Calvin, 41. The 875-man battle group was a patchwork of regular and reserve soldiers. In fact, 70 per cent of the front line soldiers were reservists -- a makeup that, Calvin says, could prove dangerous in a war zone. "Reservists are just as long on valour and courage," the now-retired Calvin told Maclean's from his home on Wolfe Island, Ont., near Kingston. "But you can't expect one to do the same things you expect from a regular soldier."

    Still, after four months in the region, Calvin considered his force seasoned, especially with his hand-picked group of platoon leaders, including reservist Lt. Tyrone Green. The morning of Sept. 9 started nicely enough for the Vancouver native in charge of 9 Platoon, Charlie Company, with sunshine poking through the cracks in the boarded windows of the platoon's quarters, a two-storey concrete building on the outskirts of the Serb-held town of Medak.

    But as Green dragged a razor across his chin, his morning shave was interrupted by incoming artillery shells. With soap still clinging to his face, Green, who is now a captain in charge of a Canadian Forces recruiting office in Vancouver, grabbed his helmet and raced to his M-113 armoured personnel carrier. At one point he was knocked down when a shell landed in a nearby ditch. He wasn't hurt, but four Canadians were injured in the shelling. "We counted 500 or more shells by the end of the first day," says Green. "About a dozen fell in our compound and one landed about 10 metres from the front door."

    Not knowing where the shells were coming from, Green sent Sgt. Rudy Bajema to establish an observation post. For the next five days, Bajema watched as the Medak Pocket was attacked by more than 2,500 Croat troops, backed by tanks, rocket launchers and artillery. The Serbs finally slowed the Croatian advance on Sept. 12, but it was not until they launched rockets into a suburb of Zagreb, Croatia's capital, that the Croats relented and accepted a UN ceasefire.

    Calvin, who didn't really expect the Croatians to live up to the agreement, ordered his troops to occupy the Croat positions. "We started taking fire almost immediately from the Croats," recalls LeBlanc. The battle raged for the next 15 hours. It was so intense that at night the light from burning buildings reflected off the soldiers' blue UN helmets, prompting them to wrap them in khaki-coloured T-shirts. Finally realizing the Canadians would not back down, the Croats sent word to Calvin that they wanted to talk. They had good reason to call a truce: the Canadians had killed 27 Croats while not taking a single casualty.

    Joined by Col. Michel Maisonneuve, a Canadian officer from the UN headquarters in Zagreb, Calvin met with Ademi at his headquarters in a town near the fighting. Ademi sat on one side of the table, blustering and yelling at the Canadians. "He looked like he was enjoying the role he was playing," says Calvin. "Emotions were very high and I was irate my men were getting shot at." But after an hour and a half, Ademi finally relented and promised to pull his troops out at noon the next day.

    The Croatian commander, however, was determined to terrorize the Serb civilians living in the area before he left. By 10 a.m. the next morning, a thick umbrella of smoke covered all four towns in the Medak Pocket as the Croats tried to kill or destroy everything in their wake. The Canadians witnessed scenes that still haunt many of them. "They could see what was happening from their foxholes," says Calvin. "My soldiers knew their role was to protect the weak and the innocent and they were absolutely incensed." But fearing the ceasefire agreement with Ademi would collapse if they advanced, the Canadians could do nothing but hold their ground.

    Finally, when the noon deadline passed, the Canadians raced ahead, but immediately encountered a company of Croat troops behind a barricade -- and supported by missiles launchers and an ominous Soviet-era T-72 tank. Calvin approached the senior Croat brigadier; their conversation quickly became heated. The large, bearded Croat ordered his men to cock their weapons and point them at the Canadians. "We knew they were stalling so they could clean up evidence of their ethnic cleansing," Calvin recalls.

    Calvin did not order his troops to fight, and instead tried another gambit. With the Medak attack almost a week old, the international media had converged on the area. As negotiations with his bearded counterpart deteriorated, Calvin held a news conference in front of the barricade and bluntly described the atrocities he believed were being committed by the Croatians. Realizing his country's reputation was in jeopardy, the Croat commander suddenly stepped aside. "The transformation was instantaneous," says Calvin. "He made a big show of removing the barriers."

    The Patricia's then pushed on. Every building in their path had been demolished and many were still smouldering. Corpses lay by the side of the road, some badly mutilated and others burned beyond recognition. "We knew it was going to be bad," says Green, "but the things we found there were worse than anything we expected."

    The Canadians documented everything they saw. Calvin's subsequent report helped convince the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia to issue an indictment in 2001 against Ademi, charging him with crimes against humanity. Made public one year ago, the report is a brutal list of murder and torture. Among the victims: Sara Krickovic, female, 71, throat cut; Pera Krajnovic, female, 86, burned to death; Andja Jovic, female, 74, beaten and shot. In all, the Patricia's found 16 mutilated corpses -- some with their eyes cut out.

    The soldiers rotated home four weeks later, but there was no hero's welcome. At the time, Canadians were focused on the disturbing revelations that a teenager named Shidane Arone had been tortured and killed by Canadian peacekeepers in Somalia. Kim Campbell's Conservative government was also facing a federal election and didn't want the increasing dangers Canadian troops were facing in the Balkans raised as an issue. "When we got back to Canada a couple of weeks later, the first thing I did was call home," says LeBlanc. "My folks hadn't heard anything about the battle."

    The force did receive high honours from the United Nations in 1994, when its members were given the United Nations Force Commanders' Commendation -- the first of its kind and only one of three ever awarded. And, this December, the Canadian government finally plans to honour the troops by presenting them with a unit commendation. But the honours only go so far. With vivid memories of the battle, many of the soldiers still suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome.

    As for Ademi, his case rests in legal limbo. After the indictment, he voluntarily turned himself over to the war crimes tribunal, proclaiming he had a clear conscience because "I did not order any atrocities." Last February, the UN granted him a provisional release on condition he return to The Hague when the trial proceeds, likely next year. Calvin may be called to testify. "Ademi should be called to account," he says. "No soldier should be able to get away with that."

  • ||

    must be the same 12 guys anyway fuck your undertrained forces.this is how the pros do it.

    It is interesting to note that the United states Government wanted to give this Canadian Army sniper team the Bronze Star for their combat action. But the Canadian Government thought it was not right to give an award for the taking of human lives, even during war. It's sad what has become of a once proud and respected military force the Canadian Army once was.

    Also read Bolt Actions Speak Louder Than Words on the same snipers.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Windsor Star
    Tuesday, March 19, 2002
    Top World Newsmaker
    C2

    Cool under fire, snipers don't miss

    Crack shots prove worth in rugged hills
    By Stephen Thorne
    The Canaduanb Press
    Bagram, Afghanistan


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Canada's sniper have ducked mortars and dodged bullets in eastern Afghanistan in the last two weeks. They were nearly shot to pieces by a US Apache helicopter gunship - it stopped firing just in the nick of time.

    They are said to have the highest number of confirmed kills of any regular army unit in the battle, although they deny it.

    And three of them, along with three US special forces soldiers, also rescued a company of American 101st Airborne Division pinned down by enemy fire on the first day of Operation Anaconda - the mission to find and destroy al-Qaida and Taliban forces in the rugged region south of Gardez.

    In an interview on a castle-shaped rock from which al-Qaida fighters gave them days of misery earlier this month, one of two detachments of Canada's snipers described an arduous first week of battle.

    Because of the job they do, the three youthful but cool professional sharpshooters want to be identified only by pseudonyms with their real ages, ranks and home towns.

    They landed at first light on March 2, on the first US helicopter flying in with troops from the fabled Screaming Eagles. The troops started taking small-arms fire at the top of the first ridge they hit.

    The Americans were pinned down but the three snipers and three special forces troops moved forward and sought high ground.

    From there, they began picking off al-Qaida fighters, who were shooting from behind rock piles. A one-hour firefight ensued.

    "As soon as we got rid of one guy, another one would come up, and another one," said Master Cpl. Alex, a multi-talented 30-year old raised in Ottawa and Halifax.

    Soon after that battle ended, another began. Troops from the 101st were able to move into blocking positions while the six engaged a determined enemy.

    "The six of us suppressed fire and neutralized the enemy - they were either dead or they ran away," said Alex. "Most of them were killed, as far as we could see."

    The snipers were in their element - free-ranging, aggressive, taking the initiative.

    But their talent for concealment nearly cost them their lives at the muzzles of an Apache helicopter that came in, guns blazing, chasing an enemy target just beyond them.

    Lying prone in their Britist desert fatigues with padded elbows, front torsos and legs, they were almost invisible against the dry valley floor.

    They heard the sound, looked back, saw the dirt spitting up in two rows - and rolled. The pilot must have seen them at the last moment because the strafing stopped less than a metre from their position.

    For the sake of speed, they were moving without their 50kg rucksacks and spare ammunition. But then they were running low and needed special optics equipment.

    Under fire, Cpl. Ed, 25. of Manuels, outside St. John's, Nfld., ran the 100 metres back down one side of the ridge and up the other - and then back with their gear in tow.

    They were 3,500 metres high. At such altitudes, the air was gaspingly thin even at a brisk walk. Altough extremely fit, Ed was nearly passing out after the two-way sprint, with AK-47 rounds nipping at his heels.

    But Ed, who's developed an uncanny Sean Connery imitation, didn't stop there. He grabbed his M-203 grenade launcher and started firing at the al-Qaida fighters who were giving them trouble from a nearby creek.

    "We don't know what happened," said Alex. "All we know is, their firing stopped."

    The snipers also helped extract American troops in trouble.

    Under cover of darkness, they and their US special forces comrades led soldiers of the Airborne out of the danger area, scouting ahead for enemy threats and bringing the Americans up a little at a time until they eventually linked up with friendly forces.

    At one point, the three Canadian snipers were pinned down by mortar fire in a dry riverbed. They were caught in the open. The rounds came as close as 10 metres.

    "They were bracketing us, walking them in," said Warren. "We'd move and they'd adjust fire. Eventually they ran out of rounds or they just gave up. I don't know."


    Canadian snipers Master Cpl. "Warren" left, Cpl. "Ed" center, and Master Cpl. "Alex" watch over Canadian troops in Afghanistan. Canadian Press photo: Stephen Thorne
    The snipers returned to base near Kabul March 11. Two days later the three were out again.

    This time they were part of Operation Harpoon, with Canadian troops on "the Whale," a mountain overlooking the Shah-e-Kot valley where al-Qaida were putting up stiff resistance.

    Operation Harpoon, carried out in conjunction with Operation Anaconda, consisted of 500 Canadian and 100 US troops, under command of Lt.-Col. Pat Stogran, who leads Canadian Forces in Afghanistan in the biggest ground offensive since the Korean War.

    Thursday, the snipers joined troops from the US 10th Mountain Division in a Canadian assault on the castle-like rock feature from which al-Qaida fire controllers had guided mortars into their former positions with the 101st.

    They took the rock with little resistance, killing several al-Qaida fighters and destroying an extensive cave complex.

    The operation showed that Canada "is capable of combat operations," Ed said.

    "I'm extremely happy to be here," said Alex. "It's not about grabbing oil or anything like that. It's something important."

    "Every time something happens, I just think Spet. 11 and all the people who were not involved in armed conflict and were hurt. Innocent people - firefighters, police, women and children - who died just because a man doesn't agree with the way another people live."

  • ||

    Canada is now officially screwed.

  • ||

    Tonight, I am a happy Canadian. It's been a long time since we've had a workable minority government situation - Clark's minority in '79 was untenable, because he chose to rule as a majority, with unsuprising results.

    I voted NDP, and although my own candidate came in second, the popular vote for the NDP doubled nationwide, and last I checked, we'd nearly doubled our seats in the Commons.

    So, what's it mean? No participation in that damn stupid 'missile defense shield' thingy your leaders dreamed up, for starters. Hopefully a large number of other good things, too. Wait and see.

  • ||

    yes,the quiet canadians,glad i`am not one.lol

  • ||

    I hear ya,but I am sick and tired of feeling quilty about being a white, english speaking middle class straight male who pays the way and is left unprotected by a government bent on taking away canadians ability to think.the work ethic has gone out the window in favour of social programs designed to turn a great nation into counrty of sheep.we have proven that we have balls time and time again,what is happening to my canada?

  • ||

    Kill all Canucks.I hate the evil,foul Canadians!Why do u faggots hate us for killing people,then sneak off to do it yourselves?U assholes in Canada and Europe are sore loser cause we kicked your fucking yellow asses when u faggot whores started WW2.So much for YOUR peacefull intentions.Euro-trash and Canadians are'nt worth shit except stealing jobs and inventions from AmericansU faggots are too dumb to beat us in a war.Why did u faggots in Canada/Europe invade USA in 1812?If you won like u claim,why did u run away?Why arent u ruling us.Sounds like u faggots are sore about losing Iraq.I know u loved Sadda but he's standing before the man in court,cause Americans were the only fuckers brave and smart enough to beat him.U evil yellow cowards around the world only hate Americans cause we beat u faggots down when u fucked with US.Dont pretend to be peacefull and non-violent when u get your ass kicked(well deservedy)by Yanks.FUCK ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE'NT AMERICAN.(especially u,RYAN,u punk faggot)If you're not American,your mother is a whore and u suck dod dick.Eat shit and die if u werent born in the USA!

  • ||

    Why dont u assholes in Canada stop pretending to be peacefull and nice?I know u asshole-faggots support many dictators like Castro and the British empire.U faggots up north didnt say shit when Soviets invaded Afghan and murdered 1 million,so fuck off!U faggots are 2 faced hypocrites.I know American soldiers who witnesses Canadian soldiers murdering unarmed Afghan civillians.I heard about torture by Canadians on Somalians.So if u ever try to block the knowledge of your inferior races lies and cowardly hypocrisy by scapegaoting Americans, I'll hunt u down and beat your faggot Canadian face open.The reason u whores in Canada join the rest of the world in hating Americans goes farther back then Iraq.Try the American revolution in which we beat your yellow little hypocrites system of monarchy and euro-trash privelege and beat u out of everything u helped the British steal.Canada does not rule N.America because America beat u and u faggots will allways hate us for THAT and only THAT.Dont pretend to admire human rights if u loser fuck-pigs in Canada helped the Brits invade Iraq in 1915 and sat quietly while they murdered 15000 Iraqis with poison gas(the 1st WOP's ever in Iraq)Canadians have supported many fascist govts. like GB and Cuba so,as far as I'm concerned;your whole shit-nation should be put on trial for war crimes and executed alongside Saddam(who u assholes never demonstrated against)Fuck-off,u Cnauck shit-eaters and hypocrites!

  • ||

    holy christ is this greg asshole for real??

  • ||

    some of this stuff IS STUPID...I invade Canada every summer and pass the Canadian invaders heading into the U.S...anyway there seems to be a lot of talk about U.S. being involved around the world and Iraq... No. 1 if I had the say so I would let Saddam go...the fucking Iraqis deserve him....no. 2...who give a shit how many nuclear weapons that little turd in North korea has....the President should make a statement similar to the one Kennedy did about any missles being fired at the U.S. froM Cuba...
    tell North kores and any others..that if you have atomic bombs...DON'T SELL THEM, GIVE THEM AWAY, OR LOSE ANY....because if a atomic weapon goes off in this country and we determine from which reactor it came from...WE WILL DELIVER A 20MEGATON STRIKE ON THAT COUNTRY....CASE CLOSED...ALSO next week our embassador to the U.N. will apologize for all pass interferences in others affairs...effective at midnight the next day...we will return ALL American troops from everywhere in the world...all foreign loan and give away money and food programs are cancelled...WE WILL NOT INTERFERE ANYMORE...and if anyone has some extra trucks...the U.N. will need them to move out....its about time we stuck with only our real freinds and let the rest of the world fuck off and die....

  • ||

    some of this stuff IS STUPID...I invade Canada every summer and pass the Canadian invaders heading into the U.S...anyway there seems to be a lot of talk about U.S. being involved around the world and Iraq... No. 1 if I had the say so I would let Saddam go...the fucking Iraqis deserve him....no. 2...who give a shit how many nuclear weapons that little turd in North korea has....the President should make a statement similar to the one Kennedy did about any missles being fired at the U.S. froM Cuba...
    tell North kores and any others..that if you have atomic bombs...DON'T SELL THEM, GIVE THEM AWAY, OR LOSE ANY....because if a atomic weapon goes off in this country and we determine from which reactor it came from...WE WILL DELIVER A 20MEGATON STRIKE ON THAT COUNTRY....CASE CLOSED...ALSO next week our embassador to the U.N. will apologize for all pass interferences in others affairs...effective at midnight the next day...we will return ALL American troops from everywhere in the world...all foreign loan and give away money and food programs are cancelled...WE WILL NOT INTERFERE ANYMORE...and if anyone has some extra trucks...the U.N. will need them to move out....its about time we stuck with only our real freinds and let the rest of the world fuck off and die....

  • ||

    It's times like these when I firmly believe...

    Monkeys evolved from humans, and NOT the other way around.

  • ||

    Yes JOHN REID,u fucking dumb-shit,I AM real.Too fucking bad for U assholes up north.(FAGGOT!)P.S.why are so many canuck-fucks so fat if youre allways mocking obese Yanks?That mad cow shit u idiots spawned should have frightened u off eating so much.

  • ||

    Frankly Reza I think Kerry might just be ugly enough to be America's Commander-In-Chief. Wow, an electoral race with even fewer palatable choices than we have here in the 'Great White North'...now that's what I call ugly.

    The troublesome part is that Michael Moore has been overheard saying he'll move to Canada if George W. Bush is re-elected this fall. Hoo boy. I may respect the guy's work and all, but I really wish he'd just stay south of the border. I don't think we'd be as much of a 'good fit' as he seems to think - and face it, he's a preachy media maven, while we're an extremely media-savvy culture. The gloss would soon wear thin, I fear.

    Who'll be the next Prez? Who cares, it's Coke, it's Pepsi, it's all sweet fizzy brown water. Both our countries need another half-dozen or so political parties(and we need proportional representation in Canada while we're at it)- at least then there'd be someone to speak on behalf of and represent the opinions of those who currently have no voice, such as the fiscal conservative/social progressives who have been sidelined by social conservatives.

  • ||

    Faggot this, faggot that.

    If someone hasn't already removed that filthy tongue of yours from the sewer it occupies they really should get to it. And cut off your grimy fingers. That way nobody has to put up with some two bit punk who I'm guessing has been arrested at least twice. I bet that's the source of your fixation. You got arrested for starting a fight with a twelve year old and became a prison bitch.

    The only way I would discount this scenario is if you told me you were twelve yourself. I took a few independant lessons in profiling. From your vulgarity, various complexes, and general tendancies, I'd place you in your mid-twenties with a lousy job, criminal record, and a sham former relationship. But hey, I'm new at this and I could be wrong.

    Either way it would be really nice not to listen to faggot this, faggot that, and bullshit threats from a guy who wouldn't survive two seconds voicing his opinions in a public place.

    Eat shit and die, not because you're an American, but because you are an annoying fucktard not even a mother could love.

  • ||

    Yes,faggot-Canuck-fucks,I AM convicted felon.And I HAVE had an anal relationship with your mother.And I HAD kicked in your fathers fag-face.And my country DID kick your ass.And,YES,(my bitch)I DO love the hero-pilot Schmidt.Thank GOD for his lovely ass.Anyone who kills a piece of shit Canadian should be given a medal,not a trial.Why not?U faggotassholes let murderers and terrorists off routinely with light sentences.Now YOUR kind eats shit.How does it taste,fuck-pigs?To add injury to insult;Did u hear about my baby-girl Tonya Harding?She beat a Canuk-pig almost to death in a boxing match Tues. in Canada.I love being American.Thank u Jesus 4 making me 1 of the master-race.DEATH TO CANADA!!!!!!!

  • ||

    Blah blah blah bla-fuckin' blah. Eek, we're being thwarted by an American terrorist with a brain in his sneaker.

    Speaking of Americans, was anybody else dumbfounded to hear that that sonofabitch murdering jet pilot Schmidt not only got off with a slap on the wrist (written reprimand + a $5000 fine), but that this arrogant fathead actually has the TEMERITY to have already launched an APPEAL? 12 men shot, 4 of them killed - and the audio transcripts clearly indicate this pilot not only blatantly disregarded direct orders, but bent the rules of engagement to satisfy his bruised ego and unbridled bloodlust.

    It's been a while since I've heard from Ray, he who made claims about the severity of American military justice - I'd be curious to know how he thinks this reflects on those claims. Five grand and a nasty letter? I'd be more frightened of the brain in Greg's shoe.

  • ||

    CANADA SHOULD NEVER GO TO WAR ALONG SIDE AMATEURS.THE US AIR FARCE IS FAMOUS FOR THIS SHIT.

  • ||

    Hey, what the Hell-? the last post I'm seeing is from early May...

  • ||

    ...and now I'm not even seeing my posted messages...this doesn't bode well...

  • ||

    ...and now I'm not even seeing my posted messages...this doesn't bode well...

  • ||

    what happened?

  • ||

    all our posts from the last month or more are, like, not here or something...

  • ||

    Why do u fucking stupid Canadians keep pretending to be horrified by US atrocities in Iraq when u whores kept your dumbshit mouths closed as Saddam slaughtered 200,000?Why did u assholes support Britain in its murderous imperialism around the world(including Iraq)Why do u dickheads trade with Despots like Castro.Fuck u all for hypocritically playing partisan for injustice against injustice if youre just a sorry -ass leftie loser who's shitting your diapers over your defeat in the attempt to own all of N.America and the justified ass-kicking your fucking stupid side received in the cold war.Long live Tonya Harding the Canadian killer.(as well as the heroic Canadian-killer Schmidt) Fuck u DJ,u stupid bitch asshole.

  • ||

    None of our business is a faggot,punk,bitch.If your asshole-nation is great,why did u whores lose your wars of aggression against us with the Brits?If u think Your crime rate is low u are an even lower -shit than u smell like(and I can smell u over the internet-cause youre Canuck-shit)A freind of mine was robbed the 1st night he was in your asshole nation.Statistically your murder rate is as high as the US.I saw a report on Canadian crime on AMERICAS MOST WANTED and there are rapists and shit-thieves all over your faggot-pile.U are a sick wog/nigger shit 3rd world pig and even if youre white youre a faggot loser bitch,like all leftie minority loving faggots.I hate your faggot guts for being a 2nd rate sore loser and bringing up dum shit about crime/medical care to cover the fact that youre inferior,like your race and nation.Where are your great inventions,faggot?Stop pretending to be as smart as us cause we got more Nobel prize winners per capita than your whorehouse.A Yank beat 1 of yours on JEOPARDY the other night.Doesnt that prove we're smarter?What about TONYA HARDING (Yank)beating blood/piss and shit out of 1 of your coward faggots in a boxing match? Doesnt that prove were physically superior?Olympics are coming and we kill your faggot-ass then,Canuck pig.As for my Mom blowing your dad;impossible.Shes not a whore like your Canadian women all are(Yo momma)

  • ||

    If u think Iraq was "defenseless",u prove that your kind is a fucking retarded,loser,asshole fucking faggot fool pig.I dont know if youre white,but if u are,u should be killed for bringing the race down even more pathetically than it has.If youre wog-gook-nig shit,u should die 4 being the inferior monkey-shit u all are.If US was beat so bad in V-Nam,why did we win Tet offensive(biggest battle in war)No nukes used there-it was close up urban warfare.Commies ate shit to tune of 400,ooo dead.We lost 58,000.Commies killed their own kind there,so we just helped out.U faggots in Canada still hate us for beating your faggot ass in 1866 when Irish Americans invaded and killed your dumb fuck troops who couldnt form battle formation to save their worthless lives(right0on)Death to anyone who's not American.If u want to fight me,come to USA.I live @8601 Lincoln Bl.Los Angeles,Ca rm.419.Comeon,faggot-gook-bitch.I want to finish your loser non American bitch ass.I'll probably be fucking your mother when u arrive(she's my sex slave)since she's not white American,she likes eating my shit and drinking my cum. All u assholes deserve the same.I'll maku YOU my slave too,when u bring your faggot-ass here,pig-bitch.

  • ||

    Gret, shut the fuk up u fucking white mother fucker, go grow ur penis, u need one thoes pills to enlarge your dick, i will come to you LA fagget city full of white mother fuckers who are too fucking stupid. FUK U AND UR FUCKING AMERICA. TET offensive my ass, IRAQ WAS DEFENSELESS U MOFO. u are an american , ur fucking IQ is less than a fucking cow bitch. U WANNA fuk my mother, thats okay, go ahead, ill come with my entire clan bitch. U WANT SOME OF Italian mafia up ur ass bitch. Ill fukin eat u alive, cut ur dick feed it to your mom cuz she needs dick even when its dead u son of a fuck. FUK u, FUK american. you americans are fucking useless pieces of shit. U can go and suck my dick u whtite TRASH. ur white, u dun deserve to talk. JUST SHUT THE FUK up u fucking Jew loving fucks. you think u can finish me bitch. Ill rape ur ass and give it to my brothers to chop ur head off like thoes pusssssy americans in iraq getting thier heads cut off. U americans are PUSSSIEs, u cant even FIGHt. U just get ur pistols and call it a fist fight. U wanna fuk wit me bitch, ill kick the living shit out of u u STUPID, DRUNKEN, yahoo, white mother fucking son of a american bitch. ALL u amercans need to suck dick and realize your women are alll whoreesss and love to give it up in the asssss. GO GET UR DICK enlarged WHITE BOY. YOU A WHITE BOY, JUST SHUT THE FUK UP U FUCKING PUNK ASS SON OF A BITCH. ILL KICK THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF U AND UR ENTIRE HOMOSEXUAL ARMY. NOBEL prize my ass, thats like fucking 1% of ur entire RETARDED population no IM NOT A USA WANNA Be, i rather go to a good scshool where there are no shootings and have free meidcare, not like your fuckign wastland where 40 million dont even have one u fucking retard. GET UR FUCKING FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE U TALK MOFO. see thats why i call u stupid, cuz u just say shit before you think u mother fucker. Eat shit and die white boy. and about BOXING, u come to canada bitch. WE KICKED THE FUCK OUT OF THE USA hockey team in olympics so SHUT THE FUCK UP. all the star players in NHL leauge in the states are MOSTLY CANADIANs so SHUT THE FUK UP u asss eattin, cum guzzlin, fruit cake. EVEN IRAN KICKED U gUYS in the ass during world cup 98. IRAN, a 3rd world nation kicked u and embaressed your entire white boy team in france. SO SHUT THE FUK UP u looooooser, go get a gun and shuve it up ur asss. hahahah, u wanna fight me u bitch. Ill kill u before u even make ur movvee fuck headddd. tough wanna be son of a bitch. FUK U asss face. DUN FUK WITH ITALIANS bitch or ill have ur fucking house on fire tomorrow morning.

  • ||

    Hey,Ryan,u dumb-shit faggot.Breaking news;ITALIANS ARE WHITE-but if u are 1,I'm positive they're hunting your gay ass right now to kill u,faggot.U have my address,girl.Come and fight me.Whatever your race,you're a stupid bitch,coward faggot.As for your education (scShool?)u should learn to spell SCHOOL before u brag about it(u idiot faggot retard non-white whatever piece of shit.Fine that youre not a USA WANNABEE but stop assuming I'd ever come to your asshole of a nation.If I hate u,why would I come there,ass-faggot?U and the other non-white piece of dumb shit REZA are deluded asshole faggot cowards and are ashamed that youre racially inferior because the women in your family are prostitutes and I've fucked and beaten both your mothers.They want me to tell u they enjoy working for me as dick-suckers in the nigger ghetto.I take all their pay and use the bitches as toilet paper,since that's what all dark-skinned faggots and non-Americans are.Canadians are stupid shit and will die in the olympics as Yanks burn your faggot maple leaf.Come to LA vagina faggot.I 'm waiting patiently for your faggot family(to enslave them all)

  • ||

    Hey,Ryan,u dumb-shit faggot.Breaking news;ITALIANS ARE WHITE-but if u are 1,I'm positive they're hunting your gay ass right now to kill u,faggot.U have my address,girl.Come and fight me.Whatever your race,you're a stupid bitch,coward faggot.As for your education (scShool?)u should learn to spell SCHOOL before u brag about it(u idiot faggot retard non-white whatever piece of shit.Fine that youre not a USA WANNABEE but stop assuming I'd ever come to your asshole of a nation.If I hate u,why would I come there,ass-faggot?U and the other non-white piece of dumb shit REZA are deluded asshole faggot cowards and are ashamed that youre racially inferior because the women in your family are prostitutes and I've fucked and beaten both your mothers.They want me to tell u they enjoy working for me as dick-suckers in the nigger ghetto.I take all their pay and use the bitches as toilet paper,since that's what all dark-skinned faggots and non-Americans are.Canadians are stupid shit and will die in the olympics as Yanks burn your faggot maple leaf.Come to LA vagina faggot.I 'm waiting patiently for your faggot family(to enslave them all)

  • ||

    Lol, wow greg. You really are full of hate. One more thing, Being racist is nothing to be proud of. That Idiot None of ur business is just full of hate, just like you. You may think that u are better than me or him or whoever you may think but learn something from your fellow americans to calm down. Why you so angry. Chill out. who gives a shit what someone else thing. Its an online discussion. Its just words budddy. One more thing.

    one more thing. American is not a race you retard. Its a nationality. one more thing. Im not white or Italian. When you cant make a smart argument shut the hell up and leave parents out of this you pussy. Good for you and LA. No one would come there anyways. Its too far and too gay. If you got something to say or want to beat me up, you can come to Toronto and we will see what you got. Being a tough wanna be by swearing at people isnt much tough.

    Good day you morron

  • ||

    Well I think somewhere along the line we've just shattered a stupidity limit. Congrats Greg, I didn't think anything would further sour my view of the human race on a whole.

    Honestly, you'd be beneath my overwhelming contempt if you didn't deserve it so much. I think I'm starting to miss Ray and his narrow view of the big picture.

    At least after he posts I don't feel I have to wash my brain. If you truly possess genetic superiority then humanity is royally screwed. Have a nice twenty-five-to-life.

    And none of ur business, you're sounding just like Greg. Don't lump everyone in the same pile. You'll wind up as bitter and miserable a human being as he is. I'd like to state that not all us white folk are so damned despicable.

  • ||

    Oh and Chris Doran, yes you're absolutely right, greg makes me pine for the plucky, if tunnel-visioned, Ray Stephens as well.

    Reza: 'gay' is not an appropriate description of Los Angeles. 'Shit-heap', 'armpit', or 'crumbling barrio-encrusted motorway festooned with crass billboards, peppered with stretch-elastic pant-clad crackwhores, taco stands, and "drive-thru" windows'would all be more suitable than 'gay'. I can't think of any other city I'd prefer to see slide into the Pacific. Now that would truly be no big loss at all.

    Good night.

  • ||

    Allright Now,u butt-fucking Canadian ass janitors;where shall I begin.I allready notarized the superiority of our race over your fucking faggot-land full of cowards and fools.Remember the per-capita nobel prize winners?Remember our inventions,as opposed to your pretense of technology and superiority.U whores have stolen everything u have from us.Even that "Cannot- fuck-canuck bitch who designed the worlds largest gun and sold it to Ghaddafi was a typical Canadian dumb-shit.He stole those plans from a Yankee design.IMAX is a reconfigured 65mm projection system(USA).U fucking faggots up there even tried to steal our pharmaceuticals and undercut us with your cheap-shit(of course-it's Canadian)dollar.Thank god the heroic idiot Bush kicked in your faggot ass on that one.He also beat your fucking face open with steel and lumber tariffs.So faggot XOX,fuck u and yours,punk-bitch.Anyone who quotes other,better writers is an asshole.I make up all my own dumb shit,and am proud of it.Your only form of superiority is on a keypad.I'd love to face u man to man and beat your shit out through your cranium.Oh,sorry,that's allready been done.Has Tonya Harding visited u and beat your bitch head in yet.God bless all Americans who deal violence and death on all Cnauck-pigs.God bless the hero Scmidt.And REZa u faggot.I all ready told u I dont do Canada,U stupid brown nigger

  • ||

    "He also beat your fucking face open with steel and lumber tariffs". Mmm, that's rich. The WTO and NAFTA have both ruled in our favour on those issues, so you can expect your illegal tariffs to dry up & blow away soon, buddy-boy. Most likely after your current dictator is ousted in November, unless he finds some illegal manner in which to illegally retain his illegal office. Note the use of the word, 'illegal'.

    How did the 'heroic idiot' Bush kick in our 'faggot ass' on our 'cheap-shit' Canadian dollar? Or on our supposed attempted theft(?) of your pharmaceuticals? Are you on meds, Greg? It sounds like it where I'm coming from. Anyway, if you don't like it, then drop out of NAFTA. Write your Congressman. Or join the Communist Party. Pinhead.

    You obviously missed Setteragic's extraordinarily verbose litany of Canadian inventions, social innovations, and contributions to the Arts & world culture. That post, and a number of others, were wiped out a short while ago, unfortunately. You might not be so smug if you knew more of what you're blathering on about.

    What's the deal with Tonya Harding? What are you on about? Isn't she the semi-talented figure skater last seen living in a trailer park? Why should I give a damn about some trailer-trash queen?

    You're absolutely right about Schmidt. He IS a hero, after all. A head-cheese hero, on white, topped with Cheez-Whiz and A1 sauce. It's just tasteless enough to catch on like wildfire down in Greg's barrio.

    So you really want to beat the crap out of me, eh? Well, go ahead then, buddy-boy. Beat the crap out of me. I wouldn't do a thing to stop you. I believe I'll quote my favourite author, (an American, by the way) who wrote that, "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent". So go right ahead, beat me senseless, and prove just how incapable you really are.

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    That was me just then, I forgot to add 'ox' to my name. Oops.

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    Youre right;violence must be 4 the incompetent:Canadians used it to kill some unarmed Afghans last yr.(a friend in the 10th mountain div. witnessed it)U also used it against us in 1812.U got ass-fucked.U assholes do violence to each other alot, though.Your murder rate is 1 of the highest in the industrialized west.(Not that I'm complaining-believe me,I want u assholes to kill each other)The main reason I hate Canadians is because they're the only assholes in the world who would post a website devoted to THEIR inventions.Talk about an inferiority complex.Well,I dont blame u for having one.After all,u ARE inferior.It just seems so cheap and pathetic when u have to try so hard,faggot.Funny,we Yankee doodle assholes never have to brag about OUR accomplishments.U assholes around the world know as well as we do that we're the master race. I must go.I have to get back to your mother now.She's sampling my cock.She wants u to stop molesting children.And tell that shit-colored pseudo nigger REZA to come to fight me anytime in LA.I need a new nig-slave to beat 4 fun.

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    "He is winding the watch of his wit; by and by it will strike."
    - Billy Shakespeare

    *sigh* Oh, Gregory. You're completely lacking in style or grace...never offend people with style (or lack thereof)when you can offend them with substance. If you want to butt heads, well - okay, then, you inbred knucklewalking mouthbreather - get ON with it, already. Present an argument, make a statement, say whatever you want, however you want. I don't give a fuckin'/goddamn/shit/etc. about the extraneous vulgarities you may or may not choose to employ in so doing, but please - give me something to work with, will you?

    Post after post, your particular brand of spiteful venom rambles to the brink of total incoherence, then falls in anyway. In other words, it's not persuasive. It fails in its' mission. I have not been moved to respond (until now, obviously).

    Bring it on, Mr. Yankee-ka-fuckin'-doodly-dandy candy-assed star-spangled-and-striped monkey spank! I promise not to criticize your appaling spelling or atrocious grammar, as I've lowered my expectations where writing and your countrymen are concerned. Frankly, I've lowered them for most everybody who posts here, irrespective of nationality.

    So, now: You want an argument? Make it already. Or piss off. You're getting stale.

    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
    Bertrand Russell

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    So, that's the main reason you hate Canadians? Because you found a website devoted to Canadian inventions? That's mighty slim reasoning, Gregory. That's like hating Italians because you found a site about restoring churches, it makes no sense at all. It certainly doesn't warrant your sustained spite and vitriol.

    What am I doing? Why am I giving this food tube of a man the satisfaction of a constructive, well-thought response to what amounts to talentless taunting on his part? Damned if I know, I do relish a good verbal brawl, but frankly, this amounts to a kindergarten slapfest. Maybe I'm a masochist. Yep. That'd explain a lot.

    My mother. Yeah, okay, my mother sampling your cock. Right. She'll have to find it first, sunshine. You don't make it easy...! And oh, yes, I'll stop molesting children just as soon as you stop beating your wife. And no, your left hand doesn't count as your wife.

    You are boring, sir, and I won't bother to respond to your weak, paranoiac, bitterly rascist diatribes any further. You are obviously the owner and operator of a diseased brain, and now I will once again quote, or at least paraphrase another of my favourite American authors: "Do not offer sympathy to the mentally ill. Tell them firmly, 'I am not paid to listen to this DRIVEL! You are a terminal fool'."

    And you are.

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    gregy... your such a moron, you cant even get your facts straight.. Canada's average murder rate is, and always has been lower that the US.
    The U.S. stands alone among the world's nations in the degree to which it grants citizens access to guns. It also has the world's highest rate of violent crime... last year over 10,000 of you fuckers in the US died because of gun related violence. dumb fuck's.. give em all guns i say, and plenty of ammo.. go to fucking town on each other.
    master race ?? yeah right. Gregy, your nothing but apathetic, paranoid, xenophobic, ignorant, gullible and stupid.
    If your vocabulary consisted of something more than "fuk u, punk bitch, dumb shit faggot" you would probably be worthwhile debating with in this forum. Seeing as your about as intelligent as a greased anvil, (which by the way has more intelligence than your current prez) you can go take a flying fuck as far as im concerned.
    Go grab your M-16 and shoot something, preferably yourself.

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    Don't shoot yourself, Gregory. Shoot Cheney.

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    good idea..
    Gregory.....shoot Cheney..
    then yourself.

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    Well, Cheney provides a more, uh, robust target, after all...Bush cuts a comparitively small figure. His head is tiny and wee as well, which would tend to make things more difficult. Except for those ears of his. Man, they're huge.

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    Would it really be worth it to take out Donny Rumsfeld? I don't know. He has the same look about him as a neighbour we had growing up, and that guy died of cirrhosis and emphysema before he turned 65. I give Rumsfeld less than five years before he goes tits up of his own accord. No Strom Thurmond, him.

    Besides, no small amount of pleasure comes from anticipation. Knowing that he, Cheney, Ashcroft, et al will all someday stop breathing helps put a smile on my face. Of them all, the prospect of Ashcroft going to meet his maker strikes me as the most amusing by far.

    You see, I firmly believe that one's "afterlife" is constructed from all the conscious and subconscous cues accrued over one's lifetime, i.e. if you innately know Reincarnation and Karma to be true, so shall it be, likewise Heaven, Hell and Purgatory, likewise Valhalla, etc. Ashcroft is a very publicly professed Christian - and chances are he truly thinks of himself that way. The beauty of it is that by the standards of his own belief system, he's-a gonna fry in the skillet o' Hades fer all Eternity! Hyuck hyuck hyuck. How fitting!

    The so-called "Religious Right" better take stock of their sinful, intolerant ways on this here Temporal Plane and get right with their God, 'cause THEIR God is a pretty damned VENGEFUL one, casting people into the 'Lake of Fire' and all that rot.

    I'm glad I'M not a Christian, I'll tell you what.

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    what about Rummy ??

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    Hell? No, but they'll wish they had.

    Cheney, Ashcroft, Bush, et al are Pharisees. Small-minded, closed-off, tight-assed, intolerant, tunnel-visioned fanatics who *really believe* that the end justifies the means when it comes to furthering the Kingdom of God(tm).

    When they kick-off they will indeed go to a heaven of their own making, together with all of the *other* tight-assed, intolerant, tunnel-visioned fanatics of the world. Not just the Christian ones mind you - all of them. Every Muslim who ever flew a plane into a building, every Hindu who ever set fire to a Muslim neighbor, every Jew who ever shot a Palestinian child in the name of Zionism, every crusader, every inquisitor, every witch-trial judge, most of the Puritans, Paul of Tarsus, Rasputin, Ayatollah Khomeini, Mayer Kahane, and every other self-deluded asshole who ever used the names of the gods to justify being extremely crappy to their neighbor.

    They're different brands but all the same flavour, so they'll all land in the same "paradise" where presumably they will spend the rest of eternity chewing each other's faces off.

    Hellfire would be preferable.

    Mrs. Xox

    "If God is truly just, I tremble for the fate of my country."

    - Thomas Jefferson

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    *farts*

    Amen.

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    I think the pigheadedness and bloodlust we've seen on the part of the Americans who post here has to be even more widespread than any of us think. True, the internet tends to have a higher-than-normal percentage of paranoid, twisted-up people (and twelve-year olds looking for cheap thrills)than you'd encounter in everyday life, but...it seems as though only one in ten Americans who post here have anything to say other than variations on, 'We're right, you're wrong', 'Nobody loves a Cop', and 'We're above the Law', laced with profanity.

    Of the remaining nine out of ten Americans who post, it would seem that the little things...like spelling, grammar, and verb tense- are beyond their grasp, and I find that rather bone-chilling.

    Life in the shadow of a Superpower is cold comfort at best, but living with the knowledge that the vast bulk of the citizenry of that Superpower operate at the intellectual level of junior-high students is utterly galling. These...peasants...know only one thing: They're No. 1! No dose of reality exists that is strong enough to rouse them from their somnambulant state. For the average American, all the troubling complexities of life have been boiled down, homogenized and filtered so that the outside world is comprised of 'good guys' (American interests who play ball and let America exploit them) and 'bad guys' (American interests who tell them to fuck right off). Whether or not these 'good guys' and 'bad guys' (American interests)are democracies is entirely beside the point.

    That the current American administration sees fit to forcibly exploit an American interest (Iraq) and claims to do so in the hopes of fostering democracy in that foreign nation frankly demands a redefinition of the term, 'democracy'. Post-revolutionary France was noted for what they termed, 'exporting revolution', i.e. fostering war in foreign lands with the express purpose of eradicating competing systems of government and supplanting them with variants of their then-new republican model. Everybody else in Europe, and the rest of the planet, knows this period as the 'Napoleonic Wars', and far from exporting revolution, Napoleon's forces raped, looted and pillaged their way across Europe.

    Were France's neighbours, then, keen to embrace republicanism? Hardly. They were keen to retain their sovereignty instead, and fought them like Hell where possible. Whether or not France in fact HAD a better system of governance, France, under Napoleon, had not the right to force others to live as they did- and the fact that France's real interests were the plunders of War only serves to underscore the moral bankruptcy of their actions.

    America under Bush & Cheney is comporting itself in precisely the same manner as France under Napoleon. History has a way of repeating, especially amongst those who remain ignorant of it. I surmise that history, as taught in the U.S., either focuses to too large an extent on American history, or is nowhere near comprehensive enough to provide the tools needed to avoid such repetition.

    Ironically, nearly all the countries France interefered with then are democracies or constitutional monarchies today. They arrived at their current systems of governance of their own accord, eventually. To really foster change is to flourish in your circumstances, and allow those all around to decide whether to emulate you.

    Forcing change may grant the enforcer short-term gain (plunder), but only serves to fuel long-term enmity, and a resentment toward the very system of governance being proferred.

    The long and the short of it is, 'No-one likes a smartass, particularly smartasses armed to the teeth who feel free to rob you blind and not only tell you how to live, but demand that you smile while doing so'.

    Over to you-

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    In the 1st place,I'm still trying to figure out what kind of stupid fucking ASSHOLE spells FUCK with out a c(FUK?)U shitheads talk about America's lack of education and u are the shittiest idiots I've never met.No wonder all Americans hate your fucking guts.After all;we got a website devoted to it.Actually;several more than that.REZA,DJ and XOX,as well as the other cowardly,whining sore losers in Canada and Europe are still faggoting off in their shitty diapers about RUMMY,CHENEY and BUSH cause u dickhoods have been beat down to shit by them and in the most expert way.Just like we killed your shit in 1812 and then 1866.But your peacefull heaven of a lying toilet initiated those imperialist wars in svc.of the filthy limeys,and no amount of gay-bitch bullshit about diplomacy,pacifism and Canadian pretend-shit about "humanism" can change that.U faggots taught the "Indians" to scalp people,offering them bounty for the hair of both Brits and Frogs during the French Indian conflict.Remember:that thing where u snuck up and stole your "nice liberal"country? Like I said before,u ass-clowns will murder,rape and steal,as evidenced in your (hidden)crime reports,but,if u get beat in the attempt,u run behind the dipshit English and cry "bully".Your hypocrisy rings clear as a bell when u despise Bush and co. and ignore Saddam's atrocities.Also your stupidity.But I guess we Yanks got our revenge in Afghanistan when the god-hero Schmidt murdered your faggot soldiers.And REZA,u bitch-ass brown nigger fuck-pig,I want u to fight me so I can tear u apart and make u my monkey-persian-nigger-slave.I need more than just your mother here.I need more shit to torture and beat besides her,u faggot Persian pig.DJ,u asswipe;keep lying to yourself and others,losers need comfort in their own cowardice and stupidity,like all Canadians.XOX,u fucking dog-pig;as small as my penis is,it does the job nicely on yo momma.She tells me so every day when I dick-whip her ugly cow face,even as she begs me for more torture.She likes selling her foul pussy for my profit.I put her on the st. where she belongs,like all Cnadian whore-pigs.(every woman in Canada)

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    ...calling Greg's mom: it's time you monitored your child's behaviour on-line...twelve-year-olds shouldn't comport themselves this badly without some form of parental comeuppance...

    ...and that's all I'm going to say. Might I suggest we all refrain from feeding into this food tube's ego trip, and just try riding out the storm? I know I can be very patient- I hope you'll all choose patience as well. This thread is, on the whole, too much fun to let some pinhead ruin it for us all.

    Seeya later,

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    I wish bean-o should weigh in on this one...

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    Reza,u ugly brown monkey.If u were'nt the typically dumb fucking Muslim shithead u are,it would penetrate your concrete skull that I will never come to Canada.I hate u all and your mad cow disease.I fBush was "wrong" to boycott your meat,as your PM says,why did u assholes spread disease to us? Are u stupid deliberately or not?I fits deliberate,then u are viol.int.law by using bio warfare,so Bush SHOULD bomb your faggot asses.And I'm still fucking your dumb Muslim bitch mother.Fuck all Persians.

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    Mrs. Xox, I was unaware that this era we live in is known as the 'Aeon of Horus'- my knowledge of Crowley is nonexistent. All things considered, you (and Crowley, I suppose) might just have it right, as gloomy as that may seem.

    I'll try maintaining an air of measured optimism, at least 'til the next American 'election'. Dep