Shikha Dalmia: 5 Reasons Why Low Skilled Immigrants are Good for the Economy

The Senate's "Gang of Eight" proposed immigration reform plan will likely take a look at how to make it easier for high-skilled immigrants to gain legal status in the United States. Reason Foundation senior analyst Shikha Dalmia gives five reasons why low-skilled immigrants are good for the economy too:

1. Americans are the Customers of Low-Skilled Immigrants

Most Americans are not competitors of low-skilled immigrants, they are actually their customers. They buy all kinds of services from them: House cleaning services, childcare services, landscaping services, home construction services. If Americans can spend less on these services, then they have more money in their pocket to spend elsewhere, which means more jobs created elsewhere in the economy.

2. Low-Skilled Immigrants are Mobile

Latino and other foreign workers don't have ties to the local community and they haven't invested in property so they can pick up their bags and leave at any point to wherever they are needed. They can go to where houses are built in Arizona or pick fruit in Florida, they can go wherever they want. They "grease the wheels" of the labor market, as Harvard economist George Borjas has put it.

3. Low-Skilled Immigrants are Good for Women

Low skilled immigrants increase the supply of high skilled workers and these high-skilled workers are often called women. Many professional women would be forced to spend much more time at home taking care of their children, cleaning, doing laundry if it were not for the presence of foreign nannies, Korean dry cleaners or Chinese takeout.

4. Low-Skilled Immigrants May Cost the Welfare State Less

A big fear about low-skilled immigrants is that because they are poor they impose a big cost on the welfare state. But the truth is that most of them don't even qualify for most means tests benefits that Americans do so they may actually be saving the welfare state money rather than costing it money. A CATO working paper from February 19, 2013 said, "Low-income non-citizen immigrants are generally less likely to receive public benefits than those who are native born."

5. Low Skilled Immigrants Create Jobs

 They create more jobs for Americans because they reduce the cost of a key import in production: labor. When labor costs go down, more businesses can form, when more businesses can form, there are more jobs for everyone--including Americans. The fact that there is someone else to do menial work like pulling weeds means that Americans can do relatively more value added work. For instance, their English speaking skills become more marketable in a diverse economy with lots of immigrants who don't speak English.

Dalmia appeared last month on Capitol Hill to talk about the importance of low skilled immigrants. If you would like to read more articles and videos from Reason on immigration click here.

Video is about 3 min. Produced by Paul Detrick. Shot by Sharif Matar.

Scroll down for downloadable versions and subscribe to Reason TV's YouTube Channel to receive automatic updates when new material goes live.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    So, we only want low skilled immigrants. Got it

  • Scarcity||

    Logic: you didn't build that. Clearly.

  • bon829||

    Start working at home with Google! It's by-far the best job Ive had. Last Monday I got a new Alfa Romeo from bringing in $7778. I started this 9 months ago and practically straight away started making more than $83 per hour. I work through this link, Mojo50.com

  • cavalier973||

    Sucker. I have my low-skilled immigrant laborers do all that for me. Then, I take all the money and give them a sandwich.

  • Jon Lester||

    Khimki Forest. You will care.

  • Gene||

    No, still don't care, but I laughed.

  • Jon Lester||

    I usually put that right after the initial spam.

  • Jon Lester||

    Thank you for looking.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: CampaignInYourPark,

    So, we only want low skilled immigrants. Got it


    Who is "we", you collectivist P.O.S.?

  • CampingInYourPark||

    RTFA and you'll find more than one "group" that is supposed to benefit from immigration then redirect your petty insults, prick

  • OldMexican||

    Re: CampingInYourPark,

    you'll find more than one "group" that is supposed to benefit from immigration


    I read the article and I still don't see your justification to be the self-appointed spokesperson for the collective, you collectivist piece of shit.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "I read the article and I still don't see your justification to be the self-appointed spokesperson for the collective, you collectivist piece of shit."

    I ban you from the collective of which I am the spokesperson, you traitorous bastard!

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "I read the article and I still don't see your justification to be the self-appointed spokesperson for the collective, you collectivist piece of shit."

    I'm going to go out on a limb, and guess your first language isn't American English.

    "So, we only want low skilled immigrants."
    This was my summary of blog post. It was not meant to throw anyone into a fit of rage. It was, in fact, not serious.

    "Got it"
    I guess you could interpret this as a command, but usually in this context it means: "I understand", or "entiendo".

    Neither of these remarks are those of a "spokesperson".

  • crystal415||

    Sadie. I see what you mean... Kelly`s bl0g is nice, on monday I got a brand new volvo from having made $8783 this last 5 weeks and-in excess of, ten-grand last munth. no-doubt about it, this really is the nicest-job I have ever had. I started this 6 months ago and almost immediately started to earn more than $77... per/hr. I follow the instructions here, fab22.com

  • grey||

    Not all immigrant prostitutes are low skill, just saying.

  • XM||

    Wait, construction and landscaping jobs are "low skilled" jobs?

    "Latino and other foreign workers don't have ties to the local community"

    Most immigrants are comfortably rooted in their ethnic enclaves. If they move, it's within their territories. Latinos are probably more mobile than others.

    What I'm reading is a case for more immigrants who can do manual labor, and Latinos fit certainly that bill. But even in CA, there aren't that many construction or fruit picking jobs. Most Latinos work in conventional retail or office jobs.

    If you're an immigrant struggling to pay bills, then another 5 million "low skill" immigrants coming to your city won't help you in the short term. You need better paying jobs or more hours. If you're in need for a cheap nanny or a n affordable landscaper, you're in a good position.

  • XM||

    Wait, construction and landscaping jobs are "low skilled" jobs?

    "Latino and other foreign workers don't have ties to the local community"

    Most immigrants are comfortably rooted in their ethnic enclaves. If they move, it's within their territories. Latinos are probably more mobile than others.

    What I'm reading is a case for more immigrants who can do manual labor, and Latinos fit certainly that bill. But even in CA, there aren't that many construction or fruit picking jobs. Most Latinos work in conventional retail or office jobs.

    If you're an immigrant struggling to pay bills, then another 5 million "low skill" immigrants coming to your city won't help you in the short term. You need better paying jobs or more hours. If you're in need for a cheap nanny or a n affordable landscaper, you're in a good position.

  • XM||

    Wait, construction and landscaping jobs are "low skilled" jobs?

    "Latino and other foreign workers don't have ties to the local community"

    Most immigrants are comfortably rooted in their ethnic enclaves. If they move, it's within their territories. Latinos are probably more mobile than others.

    What I'm reading is a case for more immigrants who can do manual labor, and Latinos fit certainly that bill. But even in CA, there aren't that many construction or fruit picking jobs. Most Latinos work in conventional retail or office jobs.

    If you're an immigrant struggling to pay bills, then another 5 million "low skill" immigrants coming to your city won't help you in the short term. You need better paying jobs or more hours. If you're in need for a cheap nanny or a n affordable landscaper, you're in a good position.

  • Gorilla tactics||

    THEY TOOK Y'ER JOBS!

  • Caleb Turberville||

    I think South Park's take on the pulse of American politics has been waning in recent years, but from about 2004 to 2005, they got scary good at depicting the American political landscape, especially with "Goobacks" and "Best Friends Forever."

  • ||

    I don't know, I'd like to think their November 7th, 2012 episode was ready to go with Cartman hiding ballots on behalf of Romney or Obama. It just depended on who actually won.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "1. Americans are the Customers of Low-Skilled Immigrants

    Most Americans are not competitors of low-skilled immigrants, they are actually their customers. They buy all kinds of services from them"

    Unless you're an low skilled worker, which is "most Americans"

    2. Low-Skilled Immigrants are Mobile

    What's the average American time spent at a given job...3 years? And sure, immigrants enjoy hauling their kids to new places every 2 months too. Not a problem.

    "3. Low-Skilled Immigrants are Good for Women

    Low skilled immigrants increase the supply of high skilled workers and these high-skilled workers are often called women. Many professional women would be forced to spend much more time at home..."

    Yes, because if a Latino doesn't do it you'd damn well better

    "4. Low-Skilled Immigrants May Cost the Welfare State Less

    A big fear about low-skilled immigrants is that because they are poor they impose a big cost on the welfare state."

    This is cured with one fell swoop of a functioning penis and corresponding woman parts.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: CampaignInYourPark,

    Unless you're an low skilled worker, which is "most Americans"


    "Most Americans"??? I don't see all crossroads filled with "most Americans" asking to work for food. Have you? I haven't.

    Yes, because if a Latino doesn't do it you'd damn well better


    The phenomenon is called "Comparative Advantage"

    Read it. Understand it. Then come back.

  • GW||

    "I don't see all crossroads filled with "most Americans" asking to work for food. Have you? I haven't."

    I haven't either. It's because they're sitting at home watching Jerry Springer collecting TANF and SNAP.

    So we could kill two birds with one stone here....

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "Re: CampaignInYourPark,

    Unless you're an low skilled worker, which is 'most Americans'

    'Most Americans'??? I don't see all crossroads filled with 'most Americans' asking to work for food. Have you? I haven't."

    No, and neither do you see all crossroads filled with "low skilled immigrants" asking to work for food either.
    And now maybe you will explain what the fuck that has to do with whether someone is a low skilled worker or not.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: CampaignInYourPark,

    No, and neither do you see all crossroads filled with "low skilled immigrants" asking to work for food either.


    A) because they're working and b) you missed the point entirely in your attempt to look cute. If you really believe that "most Americans" have low skills, then it is obvious the low-skill immigrants would drive the low-skill Americans to the crossroads with signs saying that they cna offer their labor for food.

    Either that, or you're simply another one of those imbeciles that make sweeping generalizations.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "A) because they're working and b) you missed the point entirely in your attempt to look cute. If you really believe that 'most Americans' have low skills, then it is obvious the low-skill immigrants would drive the low-skill Americans to the crossroads with signs saying that they cna offer their labor for food.
    Either that, or you're simply another one of those imbeciles that make sweeping generalizations."

    You mean a sweeping generalization like "Most Mexicans are hard workers"?
    Unless you haven't heard, there's a welfare state in America. People don't work for food. People don't have to work for food.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: CampingInYourPark,

    You mean a sweeping generalization like "Most Mexicans are hard workers"?


    Did I say that? Point out where I said that or go fuck yourself.

    Unless you haven't heard, there's a welfare state in America. People don't work for food.


    There's a welfare state all right, but again, you're missing the point: It is not a fact that low-skilled immigrants are taking the jobs of so-called "low-skill Americans". Even IF it were true these are low-skill Americans, just purely by comparative advantage the low-skill immigrants are more productive in their tasks than the low-skill Americans, who still possess the advantage of having some schooling and speaking English, making them more productive in other endeavors where pay is higher or jobs are less demanding. You prefer to believe that there's a DISPLACEMENT happening, but your paranoid fantasies are not anybody else's problem but yours.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "You prefer to believe that there's a DISPLACEMENT happening, but your paranoid fantasies are not anybody else's problem but yours."

    Did I say anything about displacement? Did I say that? Point to where I said that or go fuck yourself.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "Even IF it were true these are low-skill Americans, just purely by comparative advantage the low-skill immigrants are more productive in their tasks than the low-skill Americans, who still possess the advantage of having some schooling and speaking English, making them more productive in other endeavors where pay is higher or jobs are less demanding."

    I'm sorry, but having some schooling and speaking English is a pretty low bar, and you've defined skills to the point where longer fingernails are an asset. There are plenty of dumbass Americans here, that need to be picking oranges instead of watching Oprah. Absent the welfare state, they are COMPETITION

  • CampingInYourPark||

    Yes, because if a Latino doesn't do it you'd damn well better

    The phenomenon is called "Comparative Advantage"

    "Many professional women would be forced"

    That is called begging the question. Read it. Understand it. Then stop being a smug prick

  • Cytotoxic||

    Perhaps when you make a real cogent point and show some signs of intelligence. In the meantime you will be treated like a dipshit.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: CampaignInYourPark,

    "Many professional women would be forced"
    That is called begging the question. Read it. Understand it. Then stop being a smug prick


    You added that spurious women comment there. I didn't post or quoted that.

    I don't know what you think "begging the question" means. I am suggesting to you to understand the concept of "Comparative Advantage" before you start posting on economic matters that you can barely grasp.

    The fact is that it is less costly for a person to have a low-skilled individual perform the less productive tasks than it is for that same person to perform those tasks himself. That's Comparative Advantage. Read it. Understand it, then stop being an asshole.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you.

    I posted this:
    '3. Low-Skilled Immigrants are Good for Women

    Low skilled immigrants increase the supply of high skilled workers and these high-skilled workers are often called women. Many professional women would be forced to spend much more time at home...'

    Yes, because if a Latino doesn't do it you'd damn well better"

    Notice the last line quoted from the article.

    I didn't ADD anything. I quoted it, and responded to it, and you proceeded to go off on comparative advantage, which has nothing do to with being "forced" to take care of your kids.

    I'm done

  • OldMexican||

    Re: CampingInYourHead,

    Notice the last line quoted from the article


    AND? So you were talking about point 3. I was talking about Comparative Advantage and the fallacy of thinking that a person can do some things himself better.

    Again, where's the question-begging?

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "Again, where's the question-begging?"

    "Many professional women would be forced to spend much more time at home..."

    God damn. If you don't see it by now, then fuck it.

  • GW||

    I keep saying this over and over again: we do not have a shortage of low skill workers in this country. They graduate in droves from public high schools every May.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I keep saying this over and over again: we do not have a shortage of low skill workers in this country. They graduate in droves from public high schools high priced universities every May (with tons of debt).

    If you wanna be even more pessimistic ^

  • Virginian||

    But those people are too good to work as fruit pickers or construction workers. They have degrees. Advanced degrees. They deserve a stylish loft apartment in a major city and a well paying job with flexible hours.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    But those people are too good to work as fruit pickers or construction workers. They have degrees. Advanced degrees. They deserve a stylish loft apartment in a major city and a well paying job with flexible hours.

    Unfortunately this is exactly the attitude of many edumacated folks. I have a friend from grad school who said "I went to college so I didn't have to do manual labor" when asked about doing a particular job. And of course he complains about "income inequality" while he openly contends that "getting an education isn't about making economic decisions" and wonders why he doesn't get paid better while working as a part time instructor at a community college.

  • Cytotoxic||

    None of your 'points' fisks anything. Go back to Breitbart please.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "None of your 'points' fisks anything. Go back to Breitbart please."

    This from the resident Neo-con. Go fisk yourself, asswipe

  • Calidissident||

    Weren't you one of the Romney supporters here during election season?

  • Agammamon||

    You know - half of the comments you added here are incoherent.

  • OldMexican||

    Shikha Dalmia: 5 Reasons Why Low Skilled Immigrants are Good for the Economy


    There are only 2 good reasons and those are: Division of Labor, and Comparative Advantage.

    BOTH are good for the economy.

  • General Butt Naked||

    How about freedom of association, and letting a business owner hire whoever the hell he wants?

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Freedom is Good, but not necessarily Good for the Economy.* OldMexican was responding to Shikha's utilitarian economic argument.

    * Though usually it is.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: General Butt Naked,

    How about freedom of association, and letting a business owner hire whoever the hell he wants?


    That's a moral argument, not an economic one. It is correct, for sure, just not relevant to the question.

  • Enough About Palin||

    "Shikha Dalmia: 5 Reasons Why Low Skilled Immigrants are Good for the Economy"

    #1 The can write for Reason.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I love #1 The can's writings.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Damn, eat something woman. Don't they unchain you from your desk to eat?

  • Ice Nine||

    JB, BTW:

    AlmightyJB| 4.11.13 @ 5:55AM |#
    Right? You meant left didn't you?

    Ice Nine| 4.11.13 @ 12:21PM |#
    Only way to get to KC from SL when you're driving south is to turn right.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I wonder how many illegal immigrants are prostitutes?

  • General Butt Naked||

    They took our (blow) JERRRRRBSSBZ!onety!1!

  • Pro Libertate||

    That sounds backwards to me, though I do not partake, unlike The Fucking Steamroller®.

  • The Original Jason||

    We all know that women wouldn't voluntarily choose to sneak into the US to provide men with sexual services for pay, they had to have been coerced and are therefore "trafficked women".

  • The Original Jason||

    Reason #6 why low skilled immigrants are good for the economy: Employees, time, and money not spent chasing down people who came here to pick oranges, build houses, clean hotel rooms, watch children, etc., can be spent on chasing down people who came here to fly planes into building, set bombs off in parking garages, recruit soldiers to fight Americans in the Middle East...

  • CampingInYourPark||

    But, what about the multiplier effect? I was told any kind of economic activity was good stuff, productive or not.

    Also, what happens when the bombers start picking oranges?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Could somebody just write a script to self-generate a thousand comment immigration thread every day?

    Also, where's the Tin Shriek? Expunged* again?

    *About fucking time.

  • Wasteland Wanderer||

    I was going to say "At least American hasn't showed up yet" but then I read a little further.

  • Wasteland Wanderer||

    And it's at this point I realize I'm replaying to a ~10 month old thread.

    Goddamnit Reason, stop slacking! At least make a new post with the old content instead of just bumping it, FFS.

  • Wasteland Wanderer||

    *replying

  • ||

    I either agree with or find a compelling case to be made with all of those except #4.

    Sure, Hispanics may mooch less than other groups, but they have a very strong track record of voting for politicians who will expand that welfare state for those other groups even more. I currently don't see the Gang of 8 coming up with a plan that doesn't involve immediate or slightly delayed citizenship, so the use of welfare by non-citizen immigrants isn't really a point worth making the way things stand now.

  • Just Sayin'||

    If immigration is so good for the economy, can someone explain why countries with liberal immigration policies like the US and Western Europe are going down the crapper fast, while Asian countries like China and Japan, with extremely restrictive immigration policies are doing great?

    The yanked out of the ass statistics and the axiomatic economic nostrums are all very nice, but my own lyin' eyes are telling me that when it comes to allowing large-scale third-world immigration, there's not a single country on earth that can be called a success story.

  • ||

    Yeah Japan's economy is doing great! And there's no bubble about to crash in China!

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Good lord.

    1) China has over a billion people, and has spent years building ghost cities that no one will ever inhabit, just to keep up the illusion that GDP is rising.

    2) Japan only brings in enough revenue to pay for its social security program and national debt payments. That's it. The fact you even mentioned Japan shows that you should never try to explain economics here or anywhere else.

  • GW||

    "Low-income non-citizen immigrants are generally less likely to receive public benefits than those who are native born."

    This is similar to the "Crime rates for illegal immigrants are less than for the general population", and both statements are equally bullshit.

    First off, "non-citizen" is cherry picking since once they start having kids, that whole "not on welfare" business goes out the window, and the kids are citizens if they were born here. As citizens, the kids make the parents eligible for all sorts of stuff on their behalf (like WIC), and lots of local freebies don't care or ask about immigration status (like clinics). They get gubment money as long as the provide services.

    Secondly, the fact that their rates of receiving benefits or committing crimes are low isn't really relevant....they ADD to those totals regardless of the propensity relative to their demographic. So while low skill immigrants (illegal or not) may commit fewer murders or collect fewer benefits, if they weren't here *at all* none of that would take place. So if they weren't here, sure, the *rates* would go up, but the actual amounts would go DOWN, which is really what we want.

  • Chris Mallory||

    Air India is ready when you are Dalmia. Import your low skilled savages to your home nation, leave America alone.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    At this point, it must be mentioned that Chris Mallory sexually abuses his daughter.

  • ||

    What!? But he told she was "practically asking for it"! Are you saying I was lied to?

  • Sevo||

    That's not his daughter! That's his goat! (or did I confuse the two?)

  • JWatts||

    It might have been a Menage a Baa.

  • Jon Lester||

    Speak for yourself. This is a fine woman, in my view.

  • Sidd Finch||

    But the truth is that most of them don't even qualify for most means tests benefits that Americans do so they may actually be saving the welfare state money rather than costing it money.

    They use less welfare than broke ass Americans therefore ... they might be saving money? How the fuck is that supposed to work?

  • ||

    There's this thing people pay all the time called "taxes". You may have heard of it.

  • Sidd Finch||

    I hear about it exponentially more than low-income people.

  • Marla Singer||

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most low-skill workers don't come even close to having a net positive tax burden, even if they are here legally and/or are paying taxes other than sales taxes at all.

  • ||

    I'm sure glad low-skilled workers don't contribute ANYTHING to society! These comments are just like those idiotic Merkin claims to the same effect. As if certain sorts of labor have no value, and anyone below a certain wage is a detriment to society. It's ridiculous.

  • Marcus75||

    my buddy's step-mother makes $88/hour on the internet. She has been without work for 7 months but last month her pay check was $18477 just working on the internet for a few hours. Here's the site to read more http://www.wow92.com

  • Sevo||

    Marcus75| 4.11.13 @ 5:14PM |#
    "my buddy's step-mother makes $88/hour on the internet"

    You idiot! She makes that doing blow-jobs at truck stops!

  • buybuydandavis||

    If you're the demand side of low skilled labor, there's a benefit. If you're the supply side, there's a cost.

    As for low skilled people costing less in welfare, does that factor in converting all the illegals to legals, like Shikha wants to do? Does that factor in when they have children who will be US citizens? Does that factor in the futures of these low skilled immigrants, who more likely will be low skilled themselves?

    I don't think it passes the 3 seconds of though test to claim that countries are better off the more low skilled citizens that they have. Really? Maybe we should just close down all the schools to increase the supply of low skilled citizens. We don't need to import them, we can make them in America!

    Does Shikha ever do anything else but pimp for immigrants?

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "Maybe we should just close down all the schools to increase the supply of low skilled citizens."

    Or build more?

  • Sidd Finch||

    As for low skilled people costing less in welfare, does that factor in

    It doesn't factor in anything. Shikha just made it up, as is her wont.

  • KevinP||

    Does Shikha ever do anything else but pimp for immigrants?

    The answer is NO. Shikha is one of Reason's worst writers. No logic, no reason, just dogma.

    And the people she shills for vote for the big government tax and spend state at about 75%. This seems like a smart strategy to advance the libertarian agenda - import vast numbers of people who will take the agenda in the reverse direction.

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    "the people she shills for vote for the big government tax and spend state at about 75%. "

    Our economy needs low-skill immigrants, and I believe in freedom of movement, but the above is a fact that cannot be overlooked. The people whose freedom to cross borders and seek jobs we defend will almost certainly fuck the libertarian movement in return.

    I don't know why some libertarians ignore this.

  • Pi Guy||

    Libertarians don't ignore this it all. They just have a better understanding than you what the word "freedom" actually means.

    Liberty. It's the root word in libertarian.

  • Mike M.||

    Does Shikha ever do anything else but pimp for immigrants?

    Yes: she also pimps for bloodthirsty radical Islamic jihadists.

  • XM||

    What will happen if more and more of these low skilled (let's say undocumented) immigrants are given the right to vote, join an union, and further bolster the side that demands living wages and benefits?

    Shikha is also down with making it easier for companies to higher SKILLED workers from abroad. Libertarians are fine with outsourcing.

    I often wonder if we're discussing the concept of economic liberty strictly within a vacuum. In my mind, a true open borders society will be an EPIC disaster, especially in this country. The elite colleges are already recruiting from abroad. I know some Indian tech folks, and the dopey American kids from ITT Tech has no chance of getting hired anywhere if they flood the job market.

    In 20 years we could very well resemble something like Australia, where min wage is like 15 dollars and inflation is the name of the game. I'm for amnesty, but I'm not in favor of going out of our way to accept socialist - lite immigrants who will hurt the nation in the long run.

  • ||

    Libertarians are fine with outsourcing.

    Uh. Yes.

  • Calidissident||

    Australia has an overall freer economy than the US

  • Skip||

    Can't we just go back to the 80s when we made our lazy white children do this crap work?

  • Mr Whipple||

    +1

  • Mr Whipple||

    You can't even get kids to take the garbage out.

  • Sevo||

    Or to get off your lawn.

  • Old Johnnie Goggabie||

    No. It's not a free country until all the white people have been driven out.

  • Pi Guy||

    Because, as we all know, whites are the only real people.

  • Ornithorhynchus||

    Immigration is also great for the economies of the countries they left. By reducing the labour supply back home, they help to raise wages (or at least prevent them from dropping), which can help raise the standard of living. Also, the money they send back to their families is invested in the local markets, producing economic growth. It's been demonstrated again and again in economic studies that immigration is the most successful form of foreign aid in existence.
    Immigration is partly responsible for the huge booms in China, India, and Turkey, has produced much of the developement in Mexico, and has kept countries like Egypt from being even worse disasters than they are already.
    Immigration reduces the gap between rich and poor countries, and it leads to more trade, which makes everyone richer.

  • Acosmist||

    "Latino and other foreign workers don't have ties to the local community and they haven't invested in property so they can pick up their bags and leave at any point to wherever they are needed. They can go to where houses are built in Arizona or pick fruit in Florida, they can go wherever they want."

    Holy crap that's awful.

    "Our helots go wherever you need them!" -selling point, apparently

  • Mr Whipple||

    Those dammed mexeecanz. I know when I walk by a bunch of them and there speakin that spanglish shit their talking about me and laffing at me.

    Go back to mexoko!

  • minarchist||

    http://www.judicialwatch.org/b.....t-welfare/

    The large majority of illegal immigrants are not net contributors but are on welfare. As a general rule, libertarians and free-market advocates should support the free movement of capital, trade and labor across borders. But an open border is incompatible with the welfare state. Let's fix that first.

  • ||

    Census Bureau data reveals that most U.S. families headed by illegal immigrants use taxpayer-funded welfare programs on behalf of their American-born anchor babies.

    Ok, American citizens /=/ illegal immigrants. The immigrants themselves are not eligible for most welfare. And any organization that believes the parents of American-born children don't get deported has next to no credibility on the subject. As a libertarian, restriction of rights is incompatible with libertarianism. Let's fix that first.

  • DenverJay||

    This article is crap. If you want to argue in favor of more immigration/amnesty on moral grounds, then do so. I may listen. But:

    1. "illegals do work citizens won't" BS! Illegals do work for wages that Citizens can't live on. Citizens are raising families and trying to buy homes, not living ten guys in a one bedroom apartment, sending most of their cash back home. That cash is a huge amount of capital removed from our economy. Back in the early '90s I was making $10 per hr in Colo Spgs, a living wage for a young single guy in that time and place, doing landscaping. Now, illegals are doing the same work for less money. I worked construction in the late '90s, applied for and got a decent paying job. Now, a citizen can't get work on a crew because all the jobs are given to friends and relatives of the illegals already working on the crew.

    2. "Frees up women and citizens for better jobs" BS! For instance, in Denver there are many telemarketer and customer service jobs because of the central location (time zones and such). A citizen who speaks only English will have a much harder time getting one of these jobs vs a bilingual child of illegal Mexicans.

    3. Open borders is part of a Utopian world where the economy is roughly free on both sides. When you have USA on one side, and Mexico on the other, the benefit to the USA is hard to find. Yes, the prices on some items fall, but if you don't even have a job, or if your job pays less than it should, you can't buy stuff anyways.

  • Pi Guy||

    1. People don't build houses to create jobs for anyone. They build houses in the hopes of charging more in the sale than the cost of building it. The less they pay in labor, the more they can earn. Why do you hate builders so much?

    Plus, if the houses cost less, they're more affordable to those people whom you claim are struggling to, you know, buy a house.

    Advantage: American people.

  • Pi Guy||

    2. Those telemarketers aren't in Mexico, you putz. They're in countries on the other side of the world. Because, when it's night here, it's day there. Since working overnight is a "shitty job" for pure Americans, they find people who are actually awake and don't have to pay overtime or sweeten the pot by offering higher wages to domestic workers to woo them into working those shifts.

    So it costs less for you to have 24-hour support when your computer breaks or you find a phantom charge on your credit card when you're reading your statement at 1130 on a Friday night that you'd like to resolve immediately.

    Advantage: American people.

  • Pi Guy||

    3. Your job pays less than it should? You, who judging by the jobs you claim to have worked where you worked for someone else - who, by the way, also has a family to feed - think that you should be the one decide how much your employer should be forced to pay you?

    Note that immigration here has slowed - some evidence exists that demonstrates that it has reversed, in fact - because we still have an economy where jobs still exist in the first place. We're still turning a profit. There are no jobs to be had in Mexico because they are less free by every measure than is the US. There are jobs here. People just won't do them because they feel that they deserve more than employers - you know, the people who create jobs - are willing to pay.

    But, when the price of labor is decreased, the cost of the product or service goes down and more people can afford to purchase them. YOU might not be able to, but I can buy more of them. So can others with jobs. You're not the only possible point of sale for every person living here.

    Advantage: American people.

  • donettagreenhill||

    my roomate's aunt made $12811 the previous month. she been working on the laptop and moved in a $381500 house. All she did was get blessed and put into work the advice made clear on this site and go to home tab for more detail--- http://goo.gl/imRPf

  • Conrad97||

    Daniel. you think Lois`s bl0g is super... last tuesday I got a gorgeous Citroën DS when I got my check for $4831 this - 4 weeks past and-just over, ten thousand this past month. with-out any question its my favourite work I have ever done. I started this six months/ago and right away startad bringin in minimum $72, per-hr. I use details from here,, http://www.wow92.com

  • Dona Marina||

    What a crock of shit.

    1) "Most Americans are not competitors of low-skilled immigrants, they are actually their customers"
    So, dipshit, it's ok to steal jobs from 10-20 million Americans just so illegals don't steal jobs from "most" Americans?
    What affect does illegal immigration have on blacks and poor whites?

    2) "Latino and other foreign workers don't have ties to the local community and they haven't invested in property so they can pick up their bags and leave at any point to wherever they are needed."
    Dipshit, I've lived in this country for 65 years. How long have you lived here?
    This country and migrant workers had an unwritten agreement for a century - Come pick our crops and then go home.
    This agreement worked fine until the 1970s when the migrants decided to stay and not go home. They didn't stay here and remain nationally migrant, they established little Tiajuanas all over our country and continue to stay there.

    3) "Many professional women would be forced to spend much more time at home taking care of their children, cleaning, doing laundry if it were not for the presence of foreign nannies, Korean dry cleaners or Chinese takeout."
    Dipshit, you're really scrapping the bottom of the barrel here.
    You're saying our women would be better off NOT spending more time taking care of their own children? Does that make our society/country better off?
    (cont’d)

  • Dona Marina||

    (cont’d)
    Giving fast food work to illegals and taking it away from our high school students helps our country?
    Aren’t you a racist for linking Chinese to Chinese food and Koreans to the dry cleaning industry?

    4) "But the truth is that most of them don't even qualify for most means tests benefits that Americans do so they may actually be saving the welfare state money rather than costing it money."
    Dipshit, you're really ignorant. With a qualifying Anchor Baby, illegals currently qualify for ALL American public benefits.
    Not only that, illegals on welfare don't have to participate in mandatory job requirements because it is illegal for them to work in our country.

    5) "They create more jobs for Americans because they reduce the cost of a key import in production: labor."
    Dipshit, you are stupid. You are referring to supply and demand forces in our labor market. When illegals work for less, they drive down wages for other workers in the same field. When you add the current crop of 12-20 million illegals to our labor force, you are not only stealing American jobs, you are driving down the market forces which support American wages.

    Dipshit Shikha, I can't believe anyone takes your bullshit seriously, let alone pays you to come up with it.

  • Baron Von Weinermobile||

    Durp Durp! Dona Maria, Keep your jingoistic bullshit to yourself. Americans don't own jobs. As a business owner I will hire whoever the fuck I want. What makes you think I give a shit about other Americans simply because they were born on this side of some imaginary line? I hire people based upon who is a better worker. period. I don't care what country they come from. And you know what? I like little Tijuanas! Sure beats Des Moines or Peoria.

  • Aaron867||

    Eli. you think Lee`s report is really great, I just purchased a top of the range Ariel Atom when I got my check for $7837 this-past/five weeks and-in excess of, 10 grand last-month. with-out any doubt it's the most rewarding I have ever had. I actually started 8-months ago and pretty much straight away startad making at least $85 per hour. I use this great link, http://www.wow92.com

  • Federale||

    They also drive down wages of Americans who cannot be part of the middle or upper classes because of low IQ.

    End the welfare state before you talk about immigration.

  • Sevo||

    WATCH OUT! Recycled article.
    Is this a move toward 'sustainable' Reason articles? So the editors don't have to wear out the brain cells to keep the pages filled?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    "Ha ha, those clowns in Congress, am I right?"

    "Wow, how does Reason stay so up to date?"

    (Apologies to the Simpsons)

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Goddammit! I just read 89 comments for nothing. Who's running the asylum this weekend?

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    Some people get upset when I suggest that a significant (but vocal) minority of posters here are better classified as conservatives who like to hang out with or identify as libertarians (especially during a Democrat administration). I submit that these immigration threads give me a fair amount of 'ammo' for my argument. The freedom of movement of labor and freedom of association involved with immigration is as much commanding of libertarian respect as other freedoms that conservatives are fine with (and contrastingly with which most people, interestingly, here agree with), in fact an immigration question was one of the few on the original Nolan chart. To see so many 'libertarians' backing off that stance in these discussions, I submit, shows there is indeed something up that tree which I have barked towards a few times.

  • Sevo||

    So are you the keeper of the True Scotsman scorecard?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    You keep it all the time, jackass.

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug|1.25.14 @ 8:04PM|#
    "You keep it all the time, jackass."

    Gee, and we get the one lefty asshole claimant to gripe about being excluded!
    It'd help if you didn't spend your time licking Obo's ass clean after he shits.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    You are such a vile little man.

    Loosen up!

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug|1.25.14 @ 8:17PM|#
    "You are such a vile little man.
    Loosen up!"

    Yeah, it's all just a joke when you hand out your crap, right?

  • Almanian (yeah, I said it)||

    SOCONS, ASSEMBLE!

  • General Butt Naked||

    ABORTION MAN, REPORTING FOR DUTY!!!

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    CAPTAIN QUEERSEX, READY FOR ACTION!!!

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    LEGAL DRUG GUY, LOCKED AND LOADED!!!

  • ||

    This sounds like a great party. Can I join? Oh, and I'm bringing Warty with me.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    At least the general seemed to understand the logic of his own joke, unlike Francisco and the Serious Man. Sheesh.

  • Tony||

    You're right and they're delusional if they disagree. There's a pretense of free-thinking independent mindedness here, but liberals are always enemy #1 despite them not being the theocratic xenophobic anti-intellectual genital police in the room. There are fewer things easier than trapping the Reason set into a whiny defense of this or that Republican.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Tennis lightyear woodsman booby hatch kimono coconut palm industrial.

  • Tony||

    As if your intentional gibberish is meaningfully distinguishable from your deepest thoughts.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Holy shit. That might be the first time you've ever gotten anything said here.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Posters here no doubt lean anti-tax as their form of "liberty" and support the GOP although the difference in the two parties on taxes is trivial.

    SoCons are certainly more anti-liberty than a liberal Democrat who prefers a 36% marginal tax rate over a 35% one espoused by some Bible-beating, war-mongering Republican.

  • Cytotoxic||

    HUR DUR MAH STRAWMEN

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    Yeah, warmongering. Like Korea, Vietnam, Kosovo, and the bombing of Libya. Fucking Republicans!

    ...oh, wait. Nevermind.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    How about Democrats who drone Americans without due process, and those who support those democrats? How about democrats who are currently licking NSA ass in a bid to shield their Dear Leader? And the supporters of police and prison guard unions that actively lobby for shitty fuck laws?

    SoCons sucks ass. But stop pretending that democrats are a single goddamn bit better.

    And please, shut the fuck up.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    I would qualify that. Not all of them are 'easy to trap into a whiny defense of this or that Republican.' And yes, for most liberals are always enemy #1, but I actually agree that at the national level the left is currently more of a threat to liberty than the right. Having said that, I agree that it is disappointing how many posters here get upset about criticizing the 'theocratic xenophobic anti-intellectual genital police,' but then, as I have said repeatedly, anyone with any time hanging around libertarians knows that, especially during a Democrat administration, a number of conservatives will hang around. The remarkable thing is how much those that seem more like actual libertarians here seem to put up with it.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    So is the left "more of a threat to liberty" than the right due to a particular policy position or just because of White House occupancy?

    If the former, which policy position?

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    If the former, which policy position?

    Please. I realize that someone who fellates Obama with the frequency and intensity you do would be clueless about this, but it's not hard to spot.

    About the only area where the left isn't a threat to liberty is the area between someone's sternum and their knees. Everywhere else they're demanding taxes so everyone can have a government bureaucrat wipe their ass for them.

  • Agammamon||

    So is the left "more of a threat to liberty" than the right due to a particular policy position or just because of White House occupancy?

    If the former, which policy position?

    Yes. Policy positions - increased welfare, 'national' curricula, primacy of the federal government in all things, weapon ownership, High Speed Rail specifically and light rail in general, mandatory recycling, plastic bag bans, increasing the minimum wage, universal 'healthcare, public sector unions, mandatory negotiation with public sector unions, 'card check' union formation.

    Just a few specific policies showing how the left-liberals are greater danger than the so-cons from more than just their current control of the executive and the senate.

    I ain't saying life under socon control would be great, but mostly they seem to be worried about what I watch on tv, how often I go to church, and stopping abortion - if you're gay things will really suck but they aren't as universally oppressive as the left-liberals are.

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    Tony, you are delusional. During the Bush administration you could drown in the anti-GOP comment threads here. What kind of dumb ass can't tell that a liberal administration is going to take most of the hits during their tenure in looting the country.

    Besides, so-cons get shat upon here, so spare us the false indignation just because your side is made up of thugs and thieves and we call you on it.

    What bothers you and Obama's But Plug is not that we shill for the GOP, but that we don't. And since you have no response to a philosophical position that embraces liberty, free markets, non-aggression, and rational selfishness, your only recourse is to yell "Republican shill!" as loud as you can.

    You have no business calling anyone "anti-intellectual."

  • Calidissident||

    To be fair, I'm pretty sure American (if you're unfamiliar with him, he's a racist troll that comes here to talk about how libertarians are wrong because blacks and Hispanics are stupid. Or something) showed up multiple times in this thread.

  • Virginian||

    Well I consider immigration to be one of those competing liberties things, like abortion.

    We do have a welfare state. In my ideal world, we'd have both open borders and no welfare state. In the real world, you might have to pick one or the other. Emphasis on the might right there.

    Personally I think a market solution is best. I think you should be able to purchase American citizenship for 50 troy ounces of gold. We'd simultaneously restore sound currency and we'd get a lot of the wealthy and productive of other nations to come here.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    "Well I consider immigration to be one of those competing liberties things, like abortion."

    All 'slavers' argue this way. Those who support the NSA, rendition, torture and other WOT say 'look, ideally we would have none of this, and no threats to our safety and liberty, but there are illiberal terrorists out there who want to kill us and make us live under Sharia law, so we just have to pick one.' Likewise supporters of the WOD say 'look, the reality is that we have this welfare state and if we do not fight drug use we will have addicts on welfare.' In fact, I recently posted Phyllis Schafly writing about how we should support the minimum wage because the welfare state is, alas, here to stay, and the more people working a minimum wage the fewer will need to be on welfare.

    You do not trade one liberty for another, you fight restrictions on both.

  • Virginian||

    Uh, you are assuming I'm opposed to increased immigration. It's not immigration I'm opposed to, it's citizenship. There's enough socialist voters as it is, I don't think there needs to be anymore.

    Of course if I was in charge voting would be something you paid to do, not something every mouth breathing retard who managed to sit through 12 years of public school was allowed to do.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    I look at it differently. The government does not get to tell me, or other adults, what to do and not let that person have a say in it.

    I am not against a reasonable residency requirement for citizenship, but every plan I have seen about this has had that (requiring something like 7 years of being in the nation before one could apply).

  • Virginian||

    Well in my ideal polity we'd have a strongly written Articles of Confederation style setup, with government empowered only to act in the common defense, funded entirely by user fees for emergency services and by the aforementioned poll taxes. No taxation of non-voters, no central bank, military forces split evenly between central and local control.

    If you've read Freehold by Michael Z Williamson, that's basically it.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    Interesting. How would property be defended, contracts enforced, fraud be dealt with?

  • ||

    Interesting. How would property be defended, contracts enforced, fraud be dealt with?

    Ummm... the exact same way they are now? By local governments, local courts, local police, etc etc. You do realize they still had state governments under the Articles of Confederation, right?

  • Almanian (yeah, I said it)||

    I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you.

    Too late! You did.

  • Rich||

    The White House is planning a -- I'm not making this up -- Big Block of Cheese Day in which you can "get your questions answered in real time".

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Ah the 90s, those were the good ol' days. When Josiah Bartlett was president and the people in Washington were fundamentally good rather than self-aggrandizing scumbags.

    There's something comically perverse that the most imperious and paranoid administration in decades is attempting to channel Aaron Sorkin's do-gooder image of the political elite.

  • Sevo||

    Yes, I'm sure the answers will be worthy of careful consideration:
    "The indications are NO"
    "Very certain"
    "The signs say YES".

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    I found a Mental Floss article on Jackson's giant cheese. Apparently it left a stench which lasted into the next administration. Full metaphor alert!

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Oh, and the supporters of Thomas Jefferson thought of the idea first:

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki.....oth_Cheese

  • ||

    In 1837, you got cheese and a chance to mingle. In 2014, you get to have your questions, IP address and MAC address archived.

  • Sevo||

    Plus, some asshole like Tony will waste your time telling you how great Obo is while picking your pocket and using the money to buy low-info votes!

  • seguin||

    "Mr. President, your constituents think you're becoming increasingly detached from reality."

    "I know how to fix this! I saw it work on TV once!"

  • lap83||

    "Why we need fewer Justin Beibers and more low skilled immigrants"

    How would the person who wrote this headline feel about an argument from the opposing side that went, "Why we need fewer Mexican drug dealing welfare queens and more high skilled immigrants"

    A fallacy is a fallacy is a fallacy.

  • Calidissident||

    I don't think the headline is meant to be taken seriously. It's just capitalizing on Beiber's recent infamy and taking a shot at him for it.

  • Sevo||

    ..."taking a shot at him for it."

    And amateur talent hunt! With real bullets!

  • Agammamon||

    Oh no, we need *more* Mexican drug-dealing welfare queens!

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Rand Paul profile in NYT

    Coming of age in America’s first family of libertarianism, Rand Paul was steeped in a narrow, rightward strain of the ideology, according to interviews, documents, and a review of speeches, articles and books

    Some of its adherents have formulated provocative theories on race, class and American history, and routinely voice beliefs that go far beyond the antiwar, anti-big-government, pro-civil-liberties message of the broader movement that has attracted legions of college students, Silicon Valley entrepreneurs and Tea Party activists.

    That worldview, often called “paleolibertarianism,” emerges from the Ludwig von Mises Institute in Alabama, started with money raised by the senior Mr. Paul. It is named for the Austrian émigré who became an intellectual godfather of modern libertarian economic thinking, devoted to an unrestricted free market.

    Some scholars affiliated with the Mises Institute have combined dark biblical prophecy with apocalyptic warnings that the nation is plunging toward economic collapse and cultural ruin. Others have championed the Confederacy. One economist, while faulting slavery because it was involuntary, suggested in an interview that the daily life of the enslaved was “not so bad — you pick cotton and sing songs”

    The Rand narrative for the next two years

  • Sevo||

    Yep, no bias in that clip. Just a clear statement of his views minus any hint of prejudice!

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    BUY YER GOLD NOW BOYS BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    New York Times Editor's Picks for Comments:

    Michael Birmingham 1 hour ago
    Libertarianism's appeal has always been its promotion of the self over society and a simplistic--if not vapid--view of the complexities of the real world. I very much doubt whether a true believer like Rand Paul will do anything to broaden the appeal of an ideology that simply cannot account for or cope with a three dimensional world.

    Reply 24Recommend

    Wasn't there a time, long, long, ago, where 'liberalism' meant being an individual? Right? I mean wasn't there a whole "don't follow the crowd" aspect to it? Was that ever real?

    Elias Zuniga Long Beach, CA 1 hour ago
    Only in American can a member of arguably the most powerful legislative body in the federal government, the U.S. Senate, argue against a powerful federal government and be taken seriously.

    Libertarianism is dead. We are interconnected and dependent on each other in crucial and fundamental ways, from public roads to drinking water to the air we breathe to electricity.

    Was it ever alive? Is he one of those persons who thinks the Bush years were a libertarian paradise?

    Ricky Barnacle is a trusted commenter Seaside 2 hours ago
    "Libertarianism", a bizarre not-even-a-theory invented by a lovelorn third-rate novelist and failed screenwriter.

    You want true libertarianism Mr. Rand? Move to Somalia. Please.

    Ayn Rand invocation and a Somalia thrown in. Nice one.

  • Sevo||

    ..."of the self over society"...
    What a SHAME!
    There was the article last week describing how lefties are abysmally ignorant of those who don't share the lefty religion; the comments make that clear.

  • ||

    Libertarianism's appeal has always been its promotion of the self over society and a simplistic--if not vapid--view of the complexities of the real world

    So...much...projection...can't...breathe...

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    And the kinds of comments are not crazy people eating out of trash dumpsters. They are teaching our kids and running the media and in many cases donning the mantle of public intellectual.

    Good Goddamn I hate the fucking masses, especially the "educated" portion of the mob.

    They are incapable of reasoned disagreement. They are compelled to spew shit and use the same buzzwords. They are like Stepford Wives, only not louder and not fuckable.

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    "only louder and not fuckable."

    Too much to drink at dinner.

    A nice New York Strip and two martinis.

    I enjoyed this while millions starve.

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    "only louder and not fuckable."

    Too much to drink at dinner.

    A nice New York Strip and two martinis.

    I enjoyed this while millions starve.

  • General Butt Naked||

    There's a lot of vitriol about plagiarism, but I doubt those same people spend MLK day internet commenting about the civil rights hero's stolen doctoral thesis.

  • ||

    There's no such thing as plagiarism, intellectual property is a dirty, filthy myth straight from hell. MLK was merely expressing his libertarian freedom to take the exact same words somebody else used, arrange them in the exact same way as they did, to convey the exact same meaning they wished to convey. It deprived the originator of nothing. Ideas are just out there in the ether, anybody can have one at the same time as somebody else.

  • Calidissident||

    Is Rand Paul seriously going to be blamed for the words and actions of people his dad hung around?

  • Sevo||

    If the NYT detects the least bit of threat to some low-watt Dem, Paul will be blamed for any super-nova that occurred in the last two centuries plus any birth defect ever.

  • ||

    Absofuckinglutely.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Seriously. They'll exhume the corpses of Ayn Rand, Murray Rothbard, and Lysander Spooner if they have to.

  • ||

    Have you noticed that Spooner is never referenced in the way Rand or Mises is? Because pretty much everything Spooner had to say is impossible to twist or distort.

    Also, here's a kicker: I joined a USTA team and was talking to another guy who joined it. Turned out he was a political philosophy professor at UW. I asked "so what do you think of Lysander Spooner?"

    His answer, for realz: "Who? I've never heard of him." Amazing.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    I imagine that's because Spooner figured out a way to consistently oppose slavery while supporting the right to secession, which essentially defuses the racism associated with it.

    I'm actually glad Spooner was cited in the New York Times article. The history of the American Letter Mail Company in of itself is a powerful example of how government monopolizes services by abolishing competition that might perform it better.

  • ||

    Well, that's the interesting thing about Spooner; he's basically impossible to smear. He was on the right side of virtually every issue of the day.

    No wonder he's utterly ignored in schools and why political philosophy professors have never heard of him.

  • ||

    Have you asked him about Spencer?

  • ||

    The only person who really appreciates Spenser is Hawk.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Dang, I forgot about those books. Used to read 'em as a kid.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    This is a good thing, it means the NYT and those they represent see Rand as an actual threat. They should.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Some scholars affiliated with the Mises Institute Marxism have combined dark biblical prophecy with apocalyptic warnings that the nation is plunging toward economic collapse and cultural ruin.

  • MJGreen||

    Some of its adherents have formulated provocative theories on race, class and American history

    Totally unique to American libertarianism.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Hello Class, Your Professor Is on Food Stamps

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....45217.html

    DIEBT = Double Income, EBT card.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    A SWPL striver poor sets up shop with a degree pretty much everyone acknowledges is completely worthless except outside the university, has two kids she and her husband clearly can't afford, and we're supposed to feel sorry for them?

    Fuck you, you dumb strivers.

    Growing up, I always thought teaching at a university was a "good" job, with security and respect. But in my experience, the bulk of adjunct professors are underpaid, receive no benefits, have no job security, and get very little respect. The majority of college classes nationwide are taught by adjuncts.

    Brought to you courtesy of our government, which provides universities with millions in free tuition every year, and the universities themselves, which decided paying a bunch of resentful third-tier trash clerks and deans rather than professors was more "fair" and "inclusive."

    Funny how the people who rail the most against elitism are demanding that they be part of the protected class now that it's their biscuit getting baked.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    This will shock you but I actually agree.

  • Agammamon||

    The question I most wanted to ask my caseworker was how two educated, hard working people ended up at his desk. What could I have done differently to avoid sitting here in this plastic chair telling a stranger that I needed money for food? Is it because Alex and I got married and had a family before we had careers or a nest egg? Are babies only for the well-off?

    1. You got there because you got a useless degree and persist (despite all evidence to the contrary) to scrounge work as an 'adjunct professor' rather than going out and getting a reliable job as, say, a secretary or PA. Sure it pays less per hour, but you have guaranteed work *all year* rather than $4000 for 3+ months of work. Oh, and you and your husband took on too much debt by buying property (that you couldn't really afford) and are spending the equivalent of a mortgage building the damn house, instead of renting a cheap place and putting money away to cover those expenses later.

    Yes, its because you decided to raise a family before you had a career or nest egg. No, families aren't just for the well-off, but if you want to have a family *and* be well-off, then you need to hold off on the children until you have the disposable income to take care of them.

    Fucking morons.

  • Agammamon||

    But in my experience, the bulk of adjunct professors are underpaid, receive no benefits, have no job security, and get very little respect.

    Which you would have noticed (having, you know, *attended* college) if you paid attention to what the people in your desired career field *actually* did for a living. And having noticed that, you might have decided that that wasn't for you and then FUCKING CHANGED MAJORS.

  • Tony||

    I just have to say, if I were as young and had as much money as JB, I would be dead by now.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    We can't do anything about your age, but we can take up a collection in the hope you kill yourself.

    How about it?

  • Tony||

    You are welcome to buy as much booze and weed for me as you want, and we can see what happens.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    I need a guarantee.

  • Sevo||

    Do NOT take any guarantee from Tony.
    Tony is a psychopathic liar; if he says the sun rises in the East, look West tomorrow morning.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Considering that alcohol kills more people than firearms every year, that's a pretty good bet. :D

  • Agammamon||

    No weed, bath salts. At the very least, spice.

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    YOU GET THE BIEBER YOU NEED, NOT THE BIEBER YOU DESERVE

  • Teller||

    Most Americans are not competitors of low-skilled immigrants, they are actually their customers. They buy all kinds of services from them: House cleaning services, childcare services, landscaping services, home construction services. If Americans can spend less on these services, then they have more money in their pocket to spend elsewhere, which means more jobs created elsewhere in the economy.

    Yeah, "most" Americans have illegal aliens cleaning their houses, mowing their lawns, and taking care of their children. Talk about "out of touch."

    Low skilled immigrants increase the supply of high skilled workers and these high-skilled workers are often called women.

    That explains why women make so much more money than men.

  • Teller||

    But the truth is that most of them don't even qualify for most means tests benefits that Americans do so they may actually be saving the welfare state money rather than costing it money. A CATO working paper from February 19, 2013 said, "Low-income non-citizen immigrants are generally less likely to receive public benefits than those who are native born."

    This is why we should give them citizenship, so they can qualify for welfare.

    They create more jobs for Americans because they reduce the cost of a key import in production: labor. When labor costs go down, more businesses can form, when more businesses can form, there are more jobs for everyone--including Americans. The fact that there is someone else to do menial work like pulling weeds means that Americans can do relatively more value added work. For instance, their English speaking skills become more marketable in a diverse economy with lots of immigrants who don't speak English.

    Americans just love it when the cost of their labor goes down. It is much, much easier to do business with someone when they can't speak your language.

  • Cytotoxic||

    HUR DUR RTFA it's made clear that they use welfare less than natives.

    Americans just love it when the cost of their labor goes down. It is much, much easier to do business with someone when they can't speak your language.

    Stupid nativist is stupid. They'll learn English and we'll learn Spanish.

  • Teller||

    They'll learn English and we'll learn Spanish.

    Americans are dying to have to learn another language. They just can't stop thanking you for this wonderful development.

  • Cytotoxic||

    You don't have to any more than I and my fellow English Canadians have to learn French-and actually a whole lot less. Not that learning basic Spanish is a heavy burden for anyone but a whiny little bitch like you.

  • Agammamon||

    Nobody's forcing anyone to learn another language.

    You know, it might be personal bias and ne being a race-traitor and all, but I don't find it all that difficult to do business with people who speak only Spanish where I live - even though my grasp of Spanish is limited to counting to 100 and curse words.

  • Calidissident||

    "That explains why women make so much more money than men."

    Huh? I think you clearly didn't get the point of that line, because your retort makes no sense.

  • Teller||

    If women are so "high skilled" why do they make less than men?

    Many professional women would be forced to spend much more time at home taking care of their children, cleaning, doing laundry if it were not for the presence of foreign nannies, Korean dry cleaners or Chinese takeout.

    Why can't the man do it? And what percentage of women can afford a Korean dry cleaner? My response to those who can: CRY ME A RIVER.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    If women are so "high skilled" why do they make less than men?

    They don't.

  • Agammamon||

    Well, women *in general* sort of do. Unfortunately the numbers for women's income get dragged down by young, healthy women who leave the workforce in droves during their fertile years.

    No-one is going to pay full price to train an employee who might decide to take a 6 months to 6 year break to have and raise children.

    When compared to older women and lesbians (the one's who actually work, not the womyn's studies majors), women tend to make as much in some cases, more than their male counterparts.

  • Calidissident||

    "If women are so "high skilled" why do they make less than men?"

    Your question has absolutely no relevance to the sentence quoted. The fact you think it does shows that your reading comprehension is subpar.

    "Why can't the man do it?"

    Who says he can't? But why should he be forced to? Same for the women. Who are you to dictate how other people run their lives?

    "My response to those who can: CRY ME A RIVER."

    Yeah, we get it, evil rich people must pay so you can control others.

  • Teller||

    Who says he can't? But why should he be forced to? Same for the women. Who are you to dictate how other people run their lives?

    Who are you to dictate that some people make so much more than others?

    Yeah, we get it, evil rich people must pay so you can control others.

    I want to put control back into the hands of the people, not the one percent. A man who has no money has no power, no control.

  • Sevo||

    Teller|1.25.14 @ 9:19PM|#
    "Who are you to dictate that some people make so much more than others?
    [...]
    I want to put control back into the hands of the people, not the one percent. A man who has no money has no power, no control."

    Dunno. Now I'm leaning toward sock

  • Irish||

    Wow. You're an angry and pathetic human being throwing a petulant little temper tantrum aren't you?

    I've got a web site that might be more your speed.

    At the site I linked, everyone is a deranged mental case who thinks rich people should be murdered and spends all of their lives in a state of impotent and pathetic rage. I think you'd fit right in.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Yeah, "most" Americans have illegal aliens cleaning their houses, mowing their lawns, and taking care of their children. Talk about "out of touch."

    Don't most Americans have orphans for that?

  • ||

    "Yeah, "most" Americans have illegal aliens cleaning their houses, mowing their lawns, and taking care of their children. Talk about "out of touch."

    I don't understand this sentence. Maybe because I'm a Canuckian but my parents always had people cut their lawn and remove the snow and such. Mind you, these were good, upstanding French-Canadians or I-talians who sometimes employed Mexicans. I reckon the next wave of immigrants will take up landscaping. Good honest work.

    Why is this 'out of touch?'

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Tony, Shitstopper and Bo on one thread. Tulpa would round this thing out.

  • Tony||

    Into that well-balanced assemblage of four rational thinkers and 20 libertarian shit-for-brains? Or is it shits-for-brain?

  • Teller||

    Most Americans are not competitors of low-skilled immigrants.

    No facts to back this claim up. How many Americans have "skills?" Probably 40% of the country.

  • Virginian||

  • Baron Von Weinermobile||

    Tell me again why I should care about Americans.

  • Teller||

    According to libertarians, Justin Bieber having millions of dollars "proves" that he somehow created that much wealth and he "deserves" it. And the illegal alien who cleans his house deserves a shit wage with no health benefits. And then they wonder why the illegals(not to mention everyone else) hate them so much.

  • ||

    U mad, bro?

  • Teller||

    Little bit:

    ....................../´¯/)
    ....................,/¯../
    .................../..../
    ............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
    ........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
    ........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
    .........\.................'...../
    ..........''...\.......... _.·´
    ............\..............(
    ..............\.............\...

  • ||

    Look, I realize that it chaps your ass that the Bieb gets tons of money and pussy yet looks like a 16-year-old lesbian, but you've got to lighten up. Things will go your way one day. Just lose 150 lbs and get plastic surgery and radically transform your personality, and you might even get a date. It's worth a shot.

  • Teller||

    you might even get a date.

    You are using that as an insult against someone who is NOT a libertarian?

  • ||

    You're right, I'm sorry. I should have said "you might even get a chance to ask for a date". I was underestimating how pathetic you are.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Point won on that.

  • Irish||

    Hi, American!

    I can't believe I missed that it was you at first. I'm normally so good at spotting our resident chinless sister fucker, but I somehow missed the signs this time.

    The fact that you fell back on your "Libertarians are all virgins" insult was a pretty big tell that it was you though.

  • Agammamon||

    Hey, hey, hey - how do you know he's chinless?

  • Calidissident||

    We all know that white nationalists who spend years trolling a libertarian website for hours on end after getting banned countless times are major pussy magnets.

  • Irish||

    My favorite part about American is that he's basically the worst sort of progressive while also despising brown people.

    He's like a mix of all the worst ideas humanity has ever had.

  • ||

    So he's basically Michael Bay.

  • Teller||

    I'm not "American" and I'm not a progressive. I'm a conservative.

  • Sevo||

    Teller|1.25.14 @ 9:21PM|#
    "I'm not "American" and I'm not a progressive. I'm a conservative."

    No, you're an ignorant asshole.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Ohhhhh! A conservative who believes in wealth redistribution. Yeah, you're a regular Ronald Reagan.

  • Teller||

    Ronald Reagan, who I don't admire, supported an economic system that still redistributed wealth. Many conservatives have supported wealth redistribution in the era before Reagan. If you look at what conservative voters want re medicare and such you will find that they support a limited amount of wealth redistribution.

  • Sevo||

    Teller|1.25.14 @ 9:48PM|#
    "Ronald Reagan, who I don't admire, supported an economic system that still redistributed wealth. Many conservatives have supported wealth redistribution in the era before Reagan. If you look at what conservative voters want re medicare and such you will find that they support a limited amount of wealth redistribution."

    OK, so is this just a sock trolling for responses?
    The claims are becoming so contradictory it's either that or someone barely bright enough to poke a keyboard.
    I'm voting really, really stupid at this point.

  • Baron Von Weinermobile||

    Why should I care about any of those? Or you?

  • Irish||

    Wow. You really are mentally ill, aren't you?

  • Sevo||

    Oh, how clever.

  • Virginian||

  • Irish||

    And the illegal alien who cleans his house deserves a shit wage with no health benefits.

    Justin Bieber has a skill people will pay for. The illegal immigrant is very low skilled and therefore can't make much money since millions of people can do his job.

    Thankfully, in a free society, he and his children can learn new skills to raise their wages and improve their lives. By moving here, they've already improved their lives relative to how they were in Mexico.

    If you tried to artificially raise the wage immigrant house cleaners needed to be paid, do you know what would happen? People would clean their own houses and all of those immigrants would be unemployed. They would no longer be able to learn skills and improve their lives and would be forced into a life of poverty and deprivation, possibly forever.

    Then again, that's how you create good Democratic voters, isn't it? By making them poor forever and dependent on government.

  • Teller||

    Justin Bieber has a skill people will pay for. The illegal immigrant is very low skilled and therefore can't make much money since millions of people can do his job.

    Agreed. The essential question: what the fuck is fair about that?

    Thankfully, in a free society, he and his children can learn new skills to raise their wages and improve their lives.

    We are seeing a huge number of Hispanic nuclear physicists, the children of immigrants are becoming "like us." Same for the Blacks, they are well-known for their upward mobility. In actuality, the fact is that the immigrant will probably be stuck in a 12$ an hour job for the rest of his life. Over the past forty years real wages for workers have stagnated while the wealth of the one percent has growth enormously.

  • ||

    what the fuck is fair about that

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...what does "fair" have to do with anything? This is real life, not your dream episode of My Little Pony.

  • Teller||

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...what does "fair" have to do with anything? This is real life, not your dream episode of My Little Pony.

    You think you are clever. You're not. Thieves have been saying a variant of this since the beginning of time.

  • ||

    And whiny little bitches like you have been squalling about "fairness" since before the beginning of time.

    What's the greatest hallmark of a loser? The phrase "it's not fair".

  • Teller||

    You wouldn't last an hour on the African Savanna, Mr. Winner.

  • ||

    What's the second greatest hallmark of being a loser? Being you.

  • Cytotoxic||

    You wouldn't last an hour on the African Savanna

    We got an implicit Internet Tuffgai! He's put that savanna in its place with his WHITENESS.

  • Sevo||

    "You think you are clever. You're not. Thieves have been saying a variant of this since the beginning of time."

    A variant of your stupidity? It's possible, but irrelevant.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Over the past forty years real wages for workers have stagnated while the wealth of the one percent has growth enormously.

    Lies.

  • Irish||

    Agreed. The essential question: what the fuck is fair about that?

    What's your solution? Make everyone pay house keepers a million dollars a year? Yeah, I'm sure people would still hire them no matter what the cost!

    You're an economic genius!

    We are seeing a huge number of Hispanic nuclear physicists, the children of immigrants are becoming "like us." Same for the Blacks, they are well-known for their upward mobility. In actuality, the fact is that the immigrant will probably be stuck in a 12$ an hour job for the rest of his life. Over the past forty years real wages for workers have stagnated while the wealth of the one percent has growth enormously.

    Nice talking point. Bonus points for 'one percent.' Unfortunately, it's actually a provable lie. Low income people today can afford MUCH more than they could even 20 years ago thanks to increases in efficiency that have occurred due to technology. Not even getting into the fact that America still has very high rates of income mobility.

    The real mean household income in the bottom quintile increased by 25 percent. This means the poor became richer as well. This measure shows that Americans in the lowest quintile could afford more goods and services in 2009 than in 1967.

  • Teller||

    What's your solution? Make everyone pay house keepers a million dollars a year? Yeah, I'm sure people would still hire them no matter what the cost!

    No DN, the solution is for the Mexicans to stay in Mexico, and you can get off your lazy ass and clean your own house. For the workers remaining, we raise the minimum wage. Countries in Europe have much higher minimum wages without mass unemployment. And if you do have mass unemployment, you know what will have to be done? The government will have to handle it.

  • Sevo||

    Teller|1.25.14 @ 9:13PM|#
    "No DN, the solution is for the Mexicans to stay in Mexico, and you can get off your lazy ass and clean your own house."
    Fuck you. Get your ass over here and mow that lawn! I can tell people what to do just as easily as some imbecile.

    "For the workers remaining, we raise the minimum wage. Countries in Europe have much higher minimum wages without mass unemployment. And if you do have mass unemployment, you know what will have to be done? The government will have to handle it."
    Ha, and ha, asshole. Go peddle your crap with the kozkids.

  • ||

    Countries in Europe have much higher minimum wages without mass unemployment.

    Yeah, like in Spain or Portugal.

  • Teller||

    Or Sweden or Germany.

  • Sevo||

    Teller|1.25.14 @ 9:44PM|#
    "Or Sweden or Germany."
    So you claim two of the Euro 28; care to give us a comparison to others? I'd love to laugh at more of your stupidity.

  • Irish||

    The countries in Europe with higher minimum wages that don't have lots of unemployment are ones with very few low skilled laborers.

    If you're Sweden and have a population that's been basically stagnant for decades and everyone is of decent education, then a higher minimum wage won't result in more unemployment because most people will be able to make above that wage already.

    If you have lots of people who, say, haven't graduated high school, a high minimum wage would result in mass unemployment.

    This is why a high minimum wage doesn't result in unemployment in Sweden but results in unemployment in Spain. The Swedes are far better educated and higher skilled.

    You'd know this if you weren't an idiot and understood how labor pricing works.

  • Teller||

    The countries in Europe with higher minimum wages that don't have lots of unemployment are ones with very few low skilled laborers.

    Gee, wonder how that happened. No fucking idea.

    This is why a high minimum wage doesn't result in unemployment in Sweden but results in unemployment in Spain.

    Yeah, that recession thing has nothing to do with it.

  • Calidissident||

    I was unaware that the recession only happened in Spain. Or that the recession explains Spain having a 30% unemployment rate 5-6 years after the recession started

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Yeah, that recession thing has nothing to do with it

    The recession hit pretty much the whole continent, dummy. Maybe you can put on that thinking cap of yours and enlighten us as to why some countries in Europe recovered faster than others.

  • Irish||

    Maybe you can put on that thinking cap of yours and enlighten us as to why some countries in Europe recovered faster than others.

    Or why some countries, such as France, have actually gotten far worse since the recession 'ended.'

  • Cytotoxic||

    the solution is for the Mexicans to stay in Mexico

    Alternatively, you can fuck yourself and I'll whomever I want to clean my house whenever I want.

  • Baron Von Weinermobile||

    Dude, have you ever been to Europe? Hardly a model for anything except dysfunctional economic policies and endemic racism.

  • Agammamon||

    Countries in Europe have much higher minimum wages without mass unemployment.

    Uh, which countries would those be? Greece? France? Italy? Spain?

  • Calidissident||

    Yeah, American, we all know that white supremacists are just loved by society. That's why you hide your views behind an Internet handle while keeping your mouth shut in public.

  • Irish||

    This isn't American. It's fairly obvious that it's a run of the mill mentally ill progressive who is crying into his soup about mean rich people not paying him $100,000 a year to write his inane blog posts.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Oops!

  • Irish||

    Never mind! It's American!

  • Teller||

    I'm actually pretty open about my pro-White views. None of my friends have any problem with it. The problem is that a hostile elite rules he society, trying to destroy White America while hiding itself behind communities that are usually something like 95% White.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Well, I'll give you credit. There's not many racist pigs who will stand up and admit they are a racist pig.

    For a shitbag, you have balls.

  • Teller||

    A lot more people are "racist" than you would think based on the ideas that dominate politics. In my Southern City I would estimate that half the population is full-fledged pro-White and only a small minority is explicitly anti-White. Even the Jews that I have known have been pro-White. I have known "anti-racist" people before and they have used the term "racist" but I usually just shrugged it off.

  • Sevo||

    Teller|1.25.14 @ 9:26PM|#
    ..."I have known "anti-racist" people before and they have used the term "racist" but I usually just shrugged it off."

    So you're a racist and proud of it? Good to know.
    Go fuck yourself.

  • Calidissident||

    Oh so you live in the South again now? Did you just move again? It has to have been difficult to move from New York to Alabama to California to Japan to Israel to every other place you've claimed to have lived to whatever Southern city you're in now in the span of a year and a half.

  • Teller||

    What are you talking about?

  • Calidissident||

    We know it's you dumbass. You didn't even dispute it. You've claimed under past handles to have lived in New York, California, Japan, Israel, and Alabama, and probably more, since those are just the ones I remember.

  • Cytotoxic||

    U mad & ur tears r yummy.

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    "And then they wonder why the illegals(not to mention everyone else) hate them so much."

    1. We don't wonder.

    2. Average illegal wouldn't know a libertarian if one bit him on the balls.

    3. You are paid what the market will bear. Making songs that a billion preteens will buy is always going to pay more than cleaning toilets.

    4. If you don't like #3, fuck off.

    5. When illegals don't get the "shit" jobs because of do gooders like yourself, they are reduced to crime of sucking dick for a living. You decide what's better.

  • Sevo||

    6. VERY concise response!

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Did the masses pay him those millions of dollars voluntarily in exchange for seeing him shake his skinny little white ass?

    Then he fucking deserves every goddamn penny.

  • ||

    No one said that. False equivalence.

  • Mickey Rat||

    " And the illegal alien who cleans his house deserves a shit wage with no health benefits."

    The "shit" wage and no benefits is the illegal immigrant's comparative advantage.

  • Teller||

    They "grease the wheels" of the labor market, as Harvard economist George Borjas has put it.

    You do know are citing an economist who has consistently advocated reducing immigration rates?

    http://cis.org/Borjas

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    Because nothing says "hockey" like playing outside in Southern California.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Overnight low of 60 tonight. But Vin Scully gets to say "It's tiiimmmee for Kings hockey!" so that alone justifies it.

  • ||

    I'm cool with it.

  • Irish||

    Teller may be a moron who is drooling all over himself upthread, but one of his points is accurate. Saying that American laborers don't compete with low-skilled immigrants is a blatant lie. They might not compete with low skill immigrants at the wages those immigrants are willing to work but it's possible they would be doing those jobs in a tighter labor market.

    That's not even getting into the fact that a lot of poor immigrants work at restaurants and fast food places which are places that low-skill Americans would be looking to work. At the very least a high amount of immigration will result in lower wages in those jobs due to supply and demand. It's possible that lower prices will make up for the lower wages, but pretending that wage shift won't happen is mendacious.

    You can still reasonably argue in favor of high levels of immigration, but just pretending despite all evidence that low-skill American workers aren't competing with immigrants does no one any favors. It's a lie and an obvious one.

  • Teller||

    It's possible that lower prices will make up for the lower wages,

    They won't. What increasing the supply of labor will do is redistribute income from the laborers to consumers and capitalists. The capitalists who hire the laborers will benefit, as will the consumers, at the expense of the worker. Libertarians claim that everyone can benefit because of "economic growth" but according to the economist George Borjas all the increased growth that goes into the economy is captured by the immigrants themselves. What it does do is redistribute income from labor to capital and consumers.

  • Irish||

    You're an idiot. Labor and consumers are the same group of people.

    Is there a magic group of laborers that don't buy anything?

  • Teller||

    No, but the amount they save is more than offset by the amount that is taken from them in the form of lower wages. The consumers who benefit but aren't laborers, where does their benefit come from? The laborers pocket.

  • Sevo||

    Teller|1.25.14 @ 9:27PM|#
    "No, but the amount they save is more than offset by the amount that is taken from them in the form of lower wages."

    Assertion posing as argument. Typical brain-dead effort.

  • Teller||

    Read Borjas.

  • Sevo||

    Teller|1.25.14 @ 9:42PM|#
    "Read Borjas."

    No, asshole, prove your claim or STFU. It's not my job to research your idiocy.

  • Teller||

    I provided a fucking link. Unfortunately t's not something you can "prove" in a two sentence "clever" comment that is the general form of argument on this website.

  • Sevo||

    Teller|1.25.14 @ 9:53PM|#
    "I provided a fucking link."

    Yeah, and look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
    So did I!

  • Teller||

    "Racism" is not an argument.

  • Sevo||

    Teller|1.25.14 @ 10:03PM|#
    "Racism" is not an argument."

    And here I thought you were incapable of learning ANYTHING!

  • General Butt Naked||

    Oh snap.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Oh snap.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Oh snap.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Jesus fucking christ, trying to comment on a tablet is fucking hard. i tap this bitch like 50 times...and nothing....

    then all of a sudden my post has made identical post babies

  • Cytotoxic||

    Doesn't matter how many links you provide, Singapore still exists. It is still massively wealthy in large part to very open immigration. PWND

  • Malkavian||

    The consumers who benefit but aren't laborers

    Um, yes we are. Who do you think shops for low cost goods and services? Bill Gates? Or people with limited paycheck?

  • mad libertarian guy||

    the amount that is taken from them in the form of lower wages

    Not giving is taking!!

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    A racist prog...go figure.

  • General Butt Naked||

    To some people around here that haven't been in certain areas of the country a racist prog may seem strange to them, but growing up in SW PA has shown me the commonness of this variance of statist.

    A lot of this region, especially older people, are vociferously pro-union, pro-democrat, anti-rich and hate minorities and gays with a passion.

  • SusanM||

    Try SE PA. Same shit. With the added bonus in both places that minorities hate the gays just as much.

  • Sevo||

    Francisco d Anconia|1.25.14 @ 9:16PM|#
    "A racist prog...go figure."

    Not uncommon. Hey, look at Obo; he regularly qualifies comments by race, but of course it is *pro* one race or the other, so it's not racist - racist, right?

  • Calidissident||

    This shouldn't be surprising. The "right-wing" in Europe, for example, is basically a bunch of xenophobic nationalist socialists as opposed to multicultural socialists. American, while masquerading as a capitalist conservative, has been pretty clearly of socially conservative "socialism for white people" variety.

  • ||

    Someone who uses the word/phrase 'the capitalist' is a pinko-commie.

  • Sevo||

    "At the very least a high amount of immigration will result in lower wages in those jobs due to supply and demand."
    Yes, but I'd like to see something that said the pressure meant X difference. It seems the want ads suggest the employers are still having to compete for help in that industry.

    "It's possible that lower prices will make up for the lower wages, but pretending that wage shift won't happen is mendacious."
    Maybe someone made that claim, but most of the commenters here (with notable exceptions) aren't going to ignore the 'hidden'.

  • Warrren||

    I need a low-skilled immigrant...in my pants!

  • Lady Bertrum||

    illegals: doing another job Americans won't.

  • ||

    ZING

  • Warrren||

    Wow, that guy just got burned! I'd hate to be in his shoes!

  • seguin||

    I'd really hate to be me right now.

    *gulp*

  • Teller||

    Yet another reason why Hispanics hate people like you.

  • Irish||

    Given that you're the one arguing that Hispanics should go back where they came from, I'm not sure how you can claim they hate anyone else.

  • Teller||

    I need a low-skilled immigrant...in my pants!

    I don't want them to conquer my country. I'm sure they wouldn't be happy if A Mexican hostile elite decided that it would be a wonderful idea if they imported fifty million Black Africans to make native Mexicans into a minority in their country. But I am only trying to preserve my nation, I am not trying to exploit the Mexican, the way the individual who wrote that comment clearly is.

  • Warrren||

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

  • Sevo||

    Teller|1.25.14 @ 9:35PM|#
    "I don't want them to conquer my country."

    I wouldn't want "them" do "conquer" your country either. I'd rather them come to the US and benefit us.
    Which country is "your" country?

  • Calidissident||

    "I'm sure they wouldn't be happy if A Mexican hostile elite decided that it would be a wonderful idea if they imported fifty million Black Africans to make native Mexicans into a minority in their country. "

    Someone has no idea how many people live in Mexico.

  • Teller||

    Someone has no idea how many people live in Mexico.

    Two words: fertility rate

  • Calidissident||

    But I thought all Mexicans had 15 kids? How are they going to be outbred?

  • Teller||

    Black Africans have on average 38 kids. The Mexicans simply can't compete.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Black Africans have on average 38 kids.

    LOL

    I don't want them to conquer my country.

    No one's 'conquering' anything, and it's not 'your' country. It's not a club you don't get to decide who loves in it. It belongs to capitalism.

  • Teller||

    "Ourselves and our posterity" not transnational financiers.

  • Sevo||

    Teller|1.25.14 @ 9:57PM|#
    "Two words: fertility rate"

    Yeah, damn Kennedys

  • Irish||

    Example:

    I'm actually pretty open about my pro-White views. None of my friends have any problem with it. The problem is that a hostile elite rules he society, trying to destroy White America while hiding itself behind communities that are usually something like 95% White.

    Yeah, I'm sure Hispanics just love being told that they're a heathen horde sweeping away America's noble white heritage. Clearly they'd just love you.

    I especially love this:

    I'm actually pretty open about my pro-White views. None of my friends have any problem with it.

    "Come on, guys! My racist friends are okay with my racism!"

  • ||

    "No one I know voted for Nixon."

  • Warrren||

    I guess my wife and kids hate me then. Well, they probably do but not for racial reasons!

    As for other Hispanics I'll need a list of names so I can talk to them individually.

  • Irish||

    And American tries his other method of argumentation: Creating a second sock puppet to say racist shit while hoping we don't realize what he's doing.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    It is amazing that people like him have such a pathetic life that this is how they spend their time.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Damn, I thought he was getting too old for this shit.

  • ||

  • Warrren||

    There's no reason for that sort of obscenity!

  • Sevo||

    Griggs '07|1.25.14 @ 9:17PM|#
    "I didn't bother to read the article..."

    AwRIGHT! We have the finalist in the "I'm a stupid shit and proud!" competition!
    Way to GO, Griggs! We're more than happy to laugh in the face of such imbeciles!

  • Sevo||

    Griggs '07|1.25.14 @ 9:33PM|#
    "Sucker. Shit, that was too easy."
    OK, you post stupid shit and then claim that some of your stupid shit is a joke?
    Well, the joke is the shit leaking out of your mouth after you eat it, sucker.

  • Sevo||

    Griggs '07|1.25.14 @ 9:49PM|#
    "I dangle some over-the-top Grade C racist drivel that wouldn't fool a Special Ed bus driver and the local peckerheads hit the bait like it's a 16-year-old blind nymphomaniac. Priceless! You're a sad sack of shit, Sevo. Just end it."

    Yes, you post stupidity and we're supposed to select what it more stupid than the other?
    Just end it, asshole.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Marie alert code: yellow

  • Calidissident||

    Well, when you're impersonating someone as stupid as American, you can't really make fun of other people for not realizing that it wasn't really him.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

  • Sevo||

    Maybe Epi got it but that's only one more 'epigram'

  • Calidissident||

    American, you have said a lot of stupid things on here, but I think this takes the cake:

    "I didn't bother to read the article but I agree anyway that America and even parts of America that used to be American like SE Florida totally need more really loud and unbearably crappy Mexican music blaring out of these sorely needed low skilled immigrants' open patio doors while Pedro ..."

    1) The first part of that makes absolutely no fucking sense - America and the parts of America that used to American? What? Were you getting lobotomized while typing that?
    2) I should show this to my Cuban friend who would laugh his ass off at some idiot who thinks Southeastern Florida is overrun with Mexicans.

  • Irish||

    Wait...at a time when another racist is saying racist shit, you posted your own racist shit. You then applaud yourself for your genius when we can't tell you from the other racist.

    Okay.

  • Sevo||

    Irish|1.25.14 @ 9:48PM|#
    "Wait...at a time when another racist is saying racist shit, you posted your own racist shit. You then applaud yourself for your genius when we can't tell you from the other racist."

    My GOODNESS! I'm impressed! Why, one racist posted racist comments and the one who claims to be other than racist posted racist comments!
    How CLEVER! I can't tell the difference!

  • Calidissident||

    Especially stupid given American's history of creating a second handle to agree with his first one.

  • ||

    Dammit. Tried to reply to Teller's ASCII art and reason foiled me again.

  • Warrren||

    The squirrels only let ASCIIhols post that stuff.

  • ||

    The squirrels are racist.

  • Hyperion||

    Only the white squirrels.

  • Teller||

    Please comment in English

    And already million's of "Americans" speak only Spanish! They aren't allowed to post on Reason.com evidently!

  • Calidissident||

    I think this is more of Reason someone being unaware that we do not write English in the "English script." People post comments here in Spanish, French, German, etc. all the time. If anything, it discriminates against Russians, Arabs, Persians, Asians, etc.

  • Hyperion||

    If you're going to reside in another country, you should learn the language and not expect the natives of that country to cater to your laziness.

    That being said, there are lots of people who were born in the US and have lived here all their life and don't speak anything resembling any official language. For instance, most people in the inner city of Baltimore.

  • Teller||

    That being said, there are lots of people who were born in the US and have lived here all their life and don't speak anything resembling any official language. For instance, most people in the inner city of Baltimore.

    One funny experience: read the Reason comments in Gizoogle

    http://www.gizoogle.net/index......is+Shiznit

  • Teller||

    "Most Gangstas is not competitorz of low-skilled immigrants, they is straight-up they hustlas. They loot all kindz of skillz from them: Doggy Den cleanin skillz, childcare skillz, landscaping skillz, home construction skillz. If Gangstas can spend less on these skillz, then they have mo' scrilla up in they pocket to spend elsewhere, which means mo' thangs pimped elsewhere up in the economy."

  • Hyperion||

    Not sure if you realize that my comment was a 2 way thing. IOW, if I move to Mexico to live, I should learn Spanish, and not expect them to bend over backwards to please me.

  • Agammamon||

    I disagree - about having to learn the language of the country you live in, not about others not bending over backwards to accommodate you.

    I'm a free man and I'll speak any language I want. You're a free man, and you'll speak any language I want. If we want to do business with each other, we'll come to an accommodation. That accommodation may mean I learn your language, it may mean you 'll learn mine, it may mean (as it has so often in the past) that we'll both learn a little of each others and throw in some pidgin to create a trade language.

    English is the language spoken by the majority her in the US, but the US has no 'official' language - it would be inappropriate for a nation of free people to have one. Its too limiting - if everyone in the country decides, forty years from now, that Russian is to be the lingua fraca, who's the government to tell them no?

  • ||

    Are you going to make the puppets dance? Because we've never heard that one before.

  • Sevo||

    Griggs '07|1.25.14 @ 9:36PM|#
    "For my next trick I'll impersonate Tulpa and see if the fuckwits nibble..."

    My goodness! What a genius! Posting stupid statements on the internet and claiming VICTORY when people can't tell one stupid statement from another!
    OK, folks, put your hands together for the 14 YO idjit!

  • Hyperion||

    You're a boring troll.

  • Sevo||

    Griggs '07|1.25.14 @ 9:52PM|#
    "Sad asshole."

    Yes, we've noticed

  • Hyperion||

    Why We Need Fewer Justin Biebers and More Low Skilled Immigrants

    I thought that Justin Bieber was a low skilled immigrant? OH!!!!, now I get it, there's a diff between low skilled and NO skills.

  • Killaz||

    "What the f*** did I do? Why did you stop me?" Bieber asked the police officer according to CNN.com.

    Driving while possessing a car a cop can't afford. Use to be my more upscale friends ran into that problem regularly. Not so much so now cop salaries are more upper middle than working class.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Haven't I seen this post before?

  • Hyperion||

    You've seen all of the posts here before. We all have.

    Chrome and Reasonable will not save you, my friend. Our new squirrel overlords have assumed control. Resistance is futile.

  • Killaz||

    This is the new, improved version. It's also in the right thread this time, which makes it not only new, improved, but borders on immaculate even.

  • Agammamon||

    More along the lines of 'we know your license is suspended so we've been watching you because we also know that you have absolutely no sense of self-restraint, decorum, or shame and its only a matter of (a short) time before you drove, fast and recklessly'.

  • Killaz||

    More along the lines of 'we know your license is suspended so we've been watching you because we also know that you have absolutely no sense of self-restraint, decorum, or shame and its only a matter of (a short) time before you drove, fast and recklessly while in possession of a car beyond what a cop can afford.

    Jeez, get the straw out of your hair. You make it sound like cops give a shit about the possible moral underpinnings of the laws they enforce. Disabuse yourself of that notion. They don't. It is always about power as a means of expressing their animus to their fellow man.

  • ||

  • ||

    The Biebster is the Canuck WMD we'll keep striking you with until you sign the Keystone XL deal.

  • Hyperion||

    Brian Adams only came to bring omens of the one who was to come.... The BIEBSTER! SEIG HEIL DER BIEBSTER!

  • ||

    Um, that's BRYAN.

  • Hyperion||

    Oh, WTF, he's a damn Canuck, stop showing him so much respect by insisting that we spell his name right.

  • ||

    Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na Cuts like a knife!

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    The Canadian Libertarian Facebook page posted this about drunk driving. Lambasted by the commenters. It was a pretty dumb post.

    Free Justin Bieber! Drop all charges! Another victim of State aggression - this time superstar Justin Bieber. Do you think the Biebs should have been arrested? Add your thoughts in the Comments. For an interesting blog on this - check out http://www.christophercantwell.....in-bieber/ Share and Like.
  • Sevo||

    OK, as the holder of the "True Scotsman" scorecard, I call FAIL!

  • Reason Cleaning Staff||

    **peers in**

    Oh I am so not cleaning this up.

  • General Butt Naked||

    You guys see that troy industries has gotten into the scumbag leo business?

    Won't be buying anymore of their shit.

  • General Butt Naked||

    You guys see that troy industries has gotten into the scumbag leo business?

    Won't be buying anymore of their shit.

  • Redmanfms||

    Won't be buying anymore of their shit.

    Troy has made "shit" for years and I didn't buy any of it just for that reason, but this adds another.

    Also, holy shit, people actually still frequent barfcom?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Reason needs to stop this recycling threads bullshit.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Yeah, they can re-post the story but scrap the 8 month old comments for the re-post.

  • ||

    Is this another 'Reason' why there are no women libertarians?

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Its part of the Reason patriarchy

  • ||

    Bieber is what happens when white trash meets lotsa cash.

  • Hyperion||

    Canuckistan has white trash? How does that work? Do they live in tin igloos?

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Many Canadians like to believe our white trash are far superior to the typical bible belt trash type. But that is because a lot of Canadians think everyone in the US south is a fat ignorant religious gun hoarding creationist believing white trash. And that they are 'Merican so automatically they are worse.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    everyone in the US south is a fat ignorant religious gun hoarding creationist believing white trash.

    Um...well...actually...

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    But Shreek lives in Georgia!

  • Hyperion||

    Where he gets butt raped daily by roving hordes bible totin, Obama hatin, gun crazed christfags.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Listen, and understand. That Christfag is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until Shreek is dead.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    Canada has Newfoundland and Newfoundland is white trash turned up to 11.

  • ||

    Trailer Park Boys is based in Nova Scotia.

    We gots white trash.

    Italian immigrants (in retaliation for being called wops I guess) called them 'Mangia cakes' because they seem to eat a lot of cake.

  • Hyperion||

    Canuckistan is even more stange than I imagined.

  • ||

    You should view or visit it on mushrooms. Even freakier.

  • Hyperion||

    I was once in Canuckistan as a child and I nearly visited recently, and will soon(Toronto). I mean, when things thaw out from all this global warming.

    I will make sure I am fully shroomed up before I arrive. Do the Canuckistanian version of CBP has a problem with that? Do I just act like Bieber?

  • ||

    Act more like William Shatner...or Rob Ford.

  • Hyperion||

    Act more like William Shatner

    CBP of Canuckistan: Where are you going, Murikan?

    Me: I came to get some VC bud, this is VC, right?

    CBP of Canuckistan: What? This is Toronto... What's wrong with your eyes?

    Me: What is this, some type of 20th century picture box?

    CBP of Canuckistan: What???

    Me: Look over there, it's Quinn the Eskimo!!! Runz......

    CBP of Canuckistan: GET HIM!!!

    To be continued...

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    THIS IS EVERY EPISODE OF BORDER SECURITY EVER

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    White trash are everywhere.

    It's not rocket surgery.

  • Hyperion||

    They're just jealous cause you can't fit as much Walmart stuff into a tin igloo as you can a double wide.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    It's a problem we are working on, OK? The new Double Wide 'Gloo is just around the corner.

  • Hyperion||

    Oh, fuck me, is there an IPO yet?

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    So has anyone been watching True Detective on HBO?

    I'm diggin it.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    I have. I'm really liking it. I don't watch too many TV shows because I have Reason to entertain me, but this is definitely becoming one of the ones I will watch every week a new episode comes out.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    I think both Woody and McConaughey are killing it. McConaughey must have lost 30 lbs for the part and he's pulling off the "freak" role wonderfully. Phenomenal acting. Didn't know he had it in him.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    He has his moments. When he plays a lawyer he usually kills it. I thought he was great in the Lincoln Lawyer and A Time To Kill.

  • ||

    No but will have to. I 'ear good tings. Sunday nights I believe?

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Very good so far. Great cast, great atmosphere, and it knows how to keep you involved and watching.

    And to top it off they added Alexandra Daddario's bare breasts into the mix. What more could you want?

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    they added Alexandra Daddario's bare breasts into the mix

    Some would say those are perfect breasts.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    And now True Detective is dog-whistle for Alexandra Daddario's breasts.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    It's a damn shame she was passed over for the lead role in 'Fifty Shades of Grey'.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    I don't know much about the book, but she seems like the type who would be perfect for what I think the female lead in those books would be like.

  • Hyperion||

    There's no damn such thing as perfect breast, or ass, or anything. It's that they're all different that makes life good.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    ^Words of wisdom.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Judge for yourself: sexy scene in question is embedded in this article

    Although on principle I agree with your statement, within reason. Not all breasts are created equal.

  • Hyperion||

    Not all breasts are created equal.

    And that's why breasts are so fascinating.

    I've seen many that are great, but none that are the best.

  • Francisco d Anconia||

    Breasts are boring. More than a mouthful is a waste.

    I'm an ass man.

    I know this because everywhere I go people tell me, "FdA, you're an ass, man."

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Kind of true. Largest I've ever personally encountered were 38GG, all natural.

    Breathtaking at first but a man could suffocate in them. Too much.

  • Hyperion||

    I'm an ass man also. Breasts are sort of optional, but I do like at least a C cup.

  • ||

    Diversity rules.

  • ||

    Great body, but the breasts... meh, I'll pass.

  • William of Purple||

    Blue eyes + Dark hair = perfection.

  • Killaz||

    I get the Bieber hate, I participated in the Bieber hate, but there is so much of it now, that I may have to become a fan.

  • Almanian (yeah, I said it)||

    The Supercross race tonight was excellent - Villopoto back to winning ways, Stewart resurgent in second, Reed WAY cool in third.

    I cannot wait for motorcycle roadracing to start.

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

  • Mickey Rat||

    "First Super Bowl to be held in open-air stadium set to be hit by freezing cold."

    I think they left some important qualifiers out of that sentence.

  • Dweebston||

    Writer discovers douchebags act like douchebags, stretches paper-thin premise over twelve hundred word essay to sum up why we are all Lena Dunham.

    So why is Lena Dunham naked? To remind the high schooler that there are all kinds of bodies out there.

    Who is it in mythical feminist fatshaming douchebro land that has the sort of image problems they ascribe to Joan Everywoman? Who is this woman so set upon by the forces of douchebro culture and their media lapdogs that she Just Can't because the douchebroness is too much? Because the more I read about this person the more she sounds like the kids who are vaping marijuana because Channel 4 sez so.

  • royalphoenix||

    This "thing" doesn't know what the hell she is talking about. Let her scrub her own shitter. peace

  • Flemur||

    2 + 3 + 4 + 5 = the reasons the countries they're fleeing are so wonderful.

    Let's have a wonderful country, too!

  • Azathoth!!||

    Most Americans are not competitors of low-skilled immigrants, they are actually their customers. They buy all kinds of services from them: House cleaning services, childcare services, landscaping services, home construction services.

    Most Americans don't buy housecleaning, childcare, and lanscaping services at all. Most Americans do these things themselves. When it comes to construction services, most American hire a contractor--they don't, despite the scenes' prevalence in film and TV, head down to the Home Depot to pick up random Mexicans.

    Well-to-do Americans, upper middle class and above, are the ones who sometimes do these things. I bet no one you know voted for Nixon.

  • pob||

    like Dorothy answered I didnt even know that any one able to profit $6158 in four weeks on the computer. pop over here W­ o­ r­ k­ s­ 7­ 7­ .­ C­ O­ M­

  • pob||

    my buddy's step-mother makes $88 an hour on the internet. She has been unemployed for 9 months but last month her income was $20319 just working on the internet for a few hours. hop over to this website W­ o­ r­ k­ s­ 7­ 7­ .­ C­ O­ M­

Click here to follow Reason on Instagram

GET REASON MAGAZINE

Get Reason's print or digital edition before it’s posted online

  • Video Game Nation: How gaming is making America freer – and more fun.
  • Matt Welch: How the left turned against free speech.
  • Nothing Left to Cut? Congress can’t live within their means.
  • And much more.

SUBSCRIBE