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Let Daylight Saving Time Die Already

Several states have broken free of the government requirement, with more on the way.

|||Vladimir Nikulin/Dreamstime.comVladimir Nikulin/Dreamstime.comEveryone not named Franklin D. Roosevelt hates Daylight Saving Time. The constant back and forth is confusing, especially for those who have an early Sunday morning commitment. The Standard Time Act of 1918 gave the federal government power to oversee national time zones. That power was extended with the passage of the Uniform Time Act of 1966, which allows the Department of Transportation (DOT) to set Daylight Saving Time for the entire country. Why DOT? Because "time standards are important for many modes of transportation," or something like that. Despite decades of observance, however, more and more Americans are rebelling against the pointless concept.

Arizona, Hawaii, and territories like American Samoa and Puerto Rico have broken free of oppressive time changes. If a state wishes to follow suit, including those who choose to keep their state in the Daylight Saving Time zone year-round, it must seek approval from DOT.

In March, Florida signed off on the appropriately named Sunshine Protection Act. But thanks to the federal government, residents must wait on Congress to change federal law in their favor. They, too, will begrudgingly observe the time change this year.

Californians hoping to ditch the practice are planning to vote yes on Proposition 7, yet must similarly wait for congressional approval. Massachusetts is also considering a change to its laws, with more states following suit. The federal government still reserves the ability to deny a state's request.

As more states begin to rebel against changing their clocks twice a year, an important question remains: Why do we still do this inane practice?

The century-old justifications related to farming, war, and light bulb conservation no longer apply in the modern world. We do this simply because we've always done it, except, of course, we haven't always done it. In the case of Massachusetts, actual harm results from the practice. As you wind your clock back this weekend, and then find yourself gassed earlier than you should be come Monday afternoon, blame Washington, D.C.

Photo Credit: Vladimir Nikulin/Dreamstime.com

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  • Fist of Etiquette||

    NO.

    Daylight Saving Time is the only time I recognize. After this weekend when we revert back to the government approved, focus group tested "standard" time will begin the literal dark ages for our once great country. In just a few months after I will be driving home after work LITERALLY IN THE DARK. That's not a metaphor, people. That's what's actually going to happen.

  • AlmightyJB||

    You are literally Hitler. You just want everyone to have get up an hour early so they'll be sleep deprived and too tired to realize your evil plans.

  • sharmota4zeb||

    I'm Jewish. I have to wait for the sun to rise so I can pray before I do anything important. Candle lighting time doesn't jump an hour, the hands on the clock do. Oh, and my ancestors didn't cross a border, the border crossed us. Or is that, we did land on Rome, Rome landed on us.

  • Vernon Depner||

    God can't hear your prayers before sunrise?

  • JesseAz||

    You want to talk to God before his coffee?? I sure as fuck don't.

  • Vernon Depner||

    We have a strained relationship 24—7.

  • Echospinner||

    Sharmota brings up a great point

    The ancient Hebrew calendar, there are others, used the sun and moon, The day of the week was defined as sunset. After sunset it is a new day. The month was determined by the new moon.

    That worked for a long time.

    Daylight Savings Time is really about that. Day is when you do stuff. Night is for home and sleep. The sun and moon.

    I am a night owl. So I have different perspective.

    Whatever schedule you are on switching even an hour or two is a problem. Circadian rhythm.

    What time is it on Mars?

  • CptNerd||

    We night owls are the ones who kept the fires burning overnight and chased away the nocturnal predators. The factories were able to run 24/7 thanks to those of us who could handle third shift work.

  • Juice||

    Day is when you do stuff. Night is for home and sleep.

    Only for boring people.

  • Paloma||

    ^^^^100%

  • CE||

    so people who live farther north are more productive in the summer and dominate the globe -- we finally figured it out.

  • CE||

    We should all live on Greenwich Mean Time, except it's racist.

  • KWlib||

    All religions are merely extensions of caveman superstitions.

    Become a modern human and recognize that 'god' does not exist, except in your mind.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    What a stunted little mind you have. Typical atheist. A little man with a little man's ideas and dreams.

  • CE||

    then study quantum physics and find out you're not so certain

  • Echospinner||

    The old conundrum is what time do you light Shabbat candles in the arctic circle?

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    I don't know about the arctic, but in the antarctic, one lights shoggoth candles.

  • Echospinner||

    Good idea. I hear shoggoths hate candles.

  • Vince Smith||

    Yes. There is no "sunset" in parts of the Arctic Circle for Chanukah because it's dark the entire time. Lol. And of course, it's light 24 hours a day in Antarctica, so also no sunset.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    What if you have a house with all four sides facing south?

  • Vernon Depner||

    Then you must be Santa, and he's not Jewish anyway.

  • CE||

    If God had meant for people to live in the Arctic Circle, he wouldn't have made it so cold.

  • JesseAz||

    Arizona is asking why what DSL is. Standard time for life bro.

  • JesseAz||

    DST... awful awful autocorrect.

  • Vince Smith||

    It gets so uncomfortably hot during the summer in Arizona that they actually prefer having the sun set earlier. That's why they have no DST. Also, it saves on air conditioning. Hawai'i has no DST because it's too close to the equator, and thus the length of the day never changes by much during the year.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    They caved for MLK Day. They'll cave for this.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    DSL has always meant dick sucking lips to me.

  • crufus||

    Except that the Native American reservations do observe DST in Arizona.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Only the Navajo in the NW. The Hopi, which is entirely within the Navajo Res, do not. And neither do the other reservations like the Tohono O'odham.

  • vek||

    What a bunch of savages!

    The Navajo should conquer and subjugate them, and force them to use DST!

  • CE||

    DSL is what you had before wifi.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    Carl Watner had a great article in the Voluntaryist about how the railroads standardized time without any government involvement. Keep the government out of time management.

  • Vince Smith||

    I don't know. Doesn't there have to be an official time so that people don't get confused? Who else can set an official time besides government? I've also heard some argue that the feds have power over DST because of "weights and measures."

  • Vince Smith||

    We tried year round DST once, and people complained about driving kids to school in the dark in December. The current system is fine and isn't changing.

  • Muzzled Woodchipper||

    I'm driving my kids to school in the dark NOW. Have been for 3 weeks or so. It's not really light here until 815 or later. That's bullshit. Far more bullshit than getting home in the dark at 5.30. I could have avoided the morning darkness had the government not docked around with the time during the GWB years when they extended Daylight Savings a decade ago or so.

  • Slocum||

    Who cares about driving to school in the dark? The time kids need some light is for after school activities. When I was a kid, we lived on the far eastern edge of a time zone (Chicago). We could barely get home from school in the dead of winter before it was dark. That really sucked. It's much better here in Michigan on the western side of the eastern time zone. Better in the summer, too. Nobody needs light at 5 AM, but still having light at 10:30 is glorious. I'd be fine with getting rid of the time change as long as we keep daylight time year round.

  • ||

    Yup, totally agree. Daylight saving time (the summer schedule) should be locked in all year. I believe that is the eventual plan for the California initiative we're voting on.

  • Vince Smith||

    Designgauge, California needs congressional permission and isn't about to get it. Prop 7 is a waste of time.

  • Get To Da Chippah||

    Nobody needs light at 5 AM

    Unless your driver's license is daylight hours only and you need to be at work around then.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    AMEN!

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    DST is a good thing. Case closed.

  • Vince Smith||

    Slocum, DST is good for summer but bad for winter. Therefore, I support the current system.

  • Vince Smith||

    Slocum, I agree that DST is good for the summer, but it is not good for winter. Just keep the current system. We are supposed to change the batteries in our smoke alarms twice a year, so the clock change is useful in that respect (although it's about 8 months DST and 4 months Standard as opposed to 6/6).

  • Steve-O||

    Current system blows. If you want to adjust your own personal sleeping schedule, no one's stopping you. You can change the time on your alarm clock without forcing 320 million other people to do the same.

  • CE||

    My smoke alarms have 10-year batteries now, modernize.

  • CE||

    As usual, giant space mirrors is the answer. We should all get 16 hours of sunshine per day.

  • VinniUSMC||

    Living in West Michigan, having light until 10:30p is actually the #1 reason why I want Michigan to remain on standard time year round. We are in a peculiar spot within the time zones. We are so very far to the west of our time zone, compared to most of the other contiguous states. It's annoying.

  • Vince Smith||

    On June 21, the sun sets at 9:25 p.m in Grand Rapids, which is western Michigan. There's no way it could still be light out at 10:30, not even twilight.

  • DaveSs||

    @Vince
    If you've never been in a Northern area far to the west in its time zone, you'd be surprised just how late it remains light out.

    I spent Independence Day in Munising Mi last summer in the upper peninsula.

    Sunset was at 9:42 PM
    At 10:15PM I could still easily read print.
    It was 11PM before it was finally dark enough to start the fireworks display.

  • VinniUSMC||

    Vince, you have no idea what you're talking about. I've lived in West Michigan for 27 of my 36 years of life. During the summer it is too light out until well past 10. We can't even start 4th of July fireworks until roughly 10:30p.

  • WoodChipperBob||

    @Vince - rather than making a bare assertion and getting it wrong, you could look it up. When you do, you'll find that twilight lasts a lot longer than you think it does. Here's a website for you...

    https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/grand-rapids

  • billstewart||

    Driving the kids to school in the dark? I had to walk to high school in the dark* when they were doing that, which was less safe and extra-cold. But that's also because school starts too early, especially for teenagers who need to sleep later. We should have standard time year round, noon happens at 12:00, and if you want to get up early in the summer, you can.

    (*No, it wasn't uphill both ways in the snow; it was downhill to school and uphill back home, and we didn't get much snow that year.)

  • Vince Smith||

    Sorry, mate, but most prefer the late sunsets during the summer with DST. Year round Standard Time is a dumb idea.

    Secondly, Standard Time eliminates the problem of driving kids to school in the dark, so I'm not sure why you're trying to argue that going to school in the dark is okay.

    Thirdly, it's pointless to have daylight before 5 a.m. when nobody is up. That's why DST makes sense in the summer. It's better to have that daylight in the evening hours than while everyone is in bed.

  • Ron||

    When i was a kid we walked to school in teh dark and walked home in the dark. it was no big deal

  • CE||

    Just take your kids out of school already. Multiple problems solved.

  • Fk_Censorship||

    Then privatize schools. Problem solved.

  • Juice||

    I agree. DST is the one to keep. Get rid of "standard" time.

  • billstewart||

    If you want to get out of bed early in the summer, you don't need to make us all change our clocks to pretend you're not doing so. Just get out of bed.

  • Vince Smith||

    billstewart, quit whining.

  • CE||

    pay your taxes and shut up?

  • Vince Smith||

    DST doesn't work in the winter. It was tried once, and people complained about dropping kids off at school in the dark. There's no daylight to save during winter.

  • Benitacanova||

    Sure there is, it's called afternoon.

  • CE||

    let's set the clocks 2 hours ahead, even better.

  • kynodog||

    I have to agree that the hour change is disruptive. I also agree with the point about doing day things in the daylight. I suggest the time change be done a minute at a time, spread out over 6 months. This would satisfy both concerns.

  • LynchPin1477||

    Everyone not named Franklin D. Roosevelt hates Daylight Saving Time

    False. I like DST.

    The constant back and forth is confusing, especially for those who have an early Sunday morning commitment.

    It's not constant! It's only twice a year and since most people use smartphones as time keeping devices, it happens automatically. If you don't have a networked timepiece it really isn't that hard to remember. I think I've maybe screwed it up once in my life.

    You probably want us to give up US customary units and switch to the metric system, too. Commie.

  • Vernon Depner||

    Metric sucks. Our system is superior.

  • LynchPin1477||

    US customary units are adhere closer to emergent, decentralized units. Metric is a centrally planned system. US customary units are Hayekian and therefore the only natural units for libertarians.

    (And yes, I realize that NIST is a thing)

  • Vernon Depner||

    That's not how I would put it, but, yeah, that's right. Our traditional measures evolved because they were actually useful in real world situations. Metric units are arbitrary and unwieldy.

  • LynchPin1477||

    I was being a bit tongue in cheek.

  • Bronze Khopesh||

    Is a 'bit' metric or standard?

  • LynchPin1477||

    It's objectivist, since base-2 reduces everything to being true or false with no room for nuance.

  • Bronze Khopesh||

    I'll give you an A is A for that.

  • Vernon Depner||

    Again, you're right, but saying it oddly. Basing units on powers of 2 in traditional measures makes easy and sensible divisions, even without measuring devices. It's easy to divide something in half by eyeball fairly accurately. Divide a gallon twice and you've got quarts. Divide a pound three times and you've got ounces. Trying to divide something into ten equal piles would be very difficult.

  • IceTrey||

    Metric is base ten so all you have to do is move the decimal point.

  • Greg F||

    Metric is base ten so all you have to do is move the decimal point.


    Day = 24 hours = 1440 minutes = 86400 seconds. Not exactly base 10.

  • Dan S.||

    Divide a pound three times and you've got ounces.

    Four times, actually. And since other systems had different numbers of ounces in a pound (a troy pound was 12 troy ounces), that is probably coincidence.

    The gallon was originally defined by tax laws. The U.S. gallon of 231 cubic inches was the wine gallon; other liquids used different size gallons. The British Imperial gallon, a bit larger than the U.S. version, is (I think) the one that was used for distilled spirits. And of course, all are now defined in terms of metric units. A "foot" may seem like a natural unit, but (almost) no one really has a foot that big. And since a meter differs by less than 10% from a yard, it's hard to see how one is natural and the other isn't.

  • Vernon Depner||

    And yet, you were correct. It's not unusual for people to hit on the truth when they think they're joking.

  • LynchPin1477||

    Oh, I also knew I was I correct.

  • IceTrey||

    No they aren't. The meter is one ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the North Pole. A kilogram is a litre of water at it's freezing point. Now they are based on constants but they aren't arbitrary.

  • DaveSs||

    "The meter is one ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the North Pole"

    That too is an arbitrary definition, it could just as easily have been decided that the meter is 1/1000th the distance between two particular locations in Paris.
    Its flawed as well since the NP-Equator distance varies slightly depending on where you take your measurements (obviously not a problem now as it is defined based on c in a vacuum)

  • Dan S.||

    the NP-Equator distance varies slightly depending on where you take your measurements

    The meridian that passes through Paris was specified in the original definition. Whether a specific spot in Paris was ever mentioned, I don't know.

  • LynchPin1477||

    False. A meter is the distance light travels in a second. And a second is defined as the time it takes to say "one Mississippi".

  • Vince Smith||

    LynchPin1477, light travels 300,000,000 meters a second, not 1 meter a second. Smh.

  • VinniUSMC||

    A meter is currently defined by a constant, the distance light travels in 1/299,792,458 of a second.

    It was defined in a variety of differing methods up until it's current definition in 1983.

    The inch is currently defined as 2.54cm. Thereby meaning that even when you measure in inches, you are still bound to the SI units.

  • Vernon Depner||

    "Arbitrary" does not mean "undefined".

  • TangoDelta||

    Most things are arbitrary. There could just as easily be 27.5 hours in a day that automatically incorporates the occasional leap second. Sure somebody could have decided to divide both day and night by twelve but they could have done 13.75 if they had really wanted to. The hand, foot, cubit, etc. are all arbitrary but some hang on because they are convenient for approximate measure as one can use their body. We could just as easily define one foot as 1.791 deci-Smoots.

  • Oli||

    If your measures are actually useful in real world situations, why do they suck so much?

  • Vernon Depner||

    Apparently you dislike real world situations. That's a common problem these days.

  • Brian.bs||

    OK, I get the problems with a centralized system, but then so is the "American" system. I also have to point out, if you want to use the old British system (which you seem to be): you got the gallon wrong (3.8 l vs 4.2); you got the ounce wrong; and how many feet are in a furlong, anyway. Not to mention rods and chains. Even the temperature is fucked up 0 F was thought to be the coldest temperature possible (as a Canadian I'm very familiar that THAT is wrong); oh, and 100 F was blood temperature. Except Fahrenheit measured that when he had a fever. Oh yes, what a great system! How about a simple, logical system, like the rest of the world uses. But hey - use whatever you want, but a common system makes communication simpler.....

  • Greg F||

    Even the temperature is fucked up 0 F was thought to be the coldest temperature possible ...


    Well ... no.

    How about a simple, logical system, like the rest of the world uses.


    The rest of the world also thinks free speech should be optional. Temperature is a measure of the average kinetic energy which on the Celsius scale is -273 for 0 kinetic energy. If you want a logical system then switch to the Kelvin scale where 0 kinetic energy equals 0 degrees Kelvin.

  • VinniUSMC||

    Kelvin and Celsius have different 0 points (absolute zero is -273.15 C), but the divisions are the same size, whereas F is bonkers.

    Metric is far superior to standard (US Customary) units. Also, all "standard" units are currently defined by SI units anyways, so it doesn't matter whether you are using standard units. They're still defined by SI units, most of which are now defined by constants, rather than some physical standard.

  • CE||

    People aren't calculators. No one is very good at estimating what one-tenth of something is. Everyone can estimate one-half or one-quarter.

  • VinniUSMC||

    Estimating 1/10th of something is not any harder than estimating 1/2 or 1/4 of something, and probably easier than estimating 1/3rd of something.

    People are also notoriously bad at estimating 1/2 of something. Especially if they have any skin in the game.

  • JesseAz||

    My automatic watch auto updates to DST... which means I overpaid for my watch since I"m in Arizona :(

  • vek||

    Now don't get me wrong, I do hate the metric system on principle. It's all part of an evil French plot to conquer the world most likely!

    That said, I think they both have their merits. I kind of agree that Imperial/US measurements almost seem to be easier to apply in a lot of real world circumstances, but that metric is easier for doing "on paper" or lots of math related to it on account of being base 10.

    Metric is probably better overall... But I say fuck that shit, just because those pussy Europeans use it! And the rest of the world, which is even WORSE than the Europeans!

  • Bronze Khopesh||

  • Vernon Depner||

    Get rid of Daylight time, but move the border of the Central time zone further to the east. It sucks having daylight until 10:00 pm in the summer. We call it "Nightlife Losing Time" around here.

  • Slocum||

    What!? Why do you want it to be dark earlier? What 'nightlife' activities can't you do during twilight?

  • Vernon Depner||

    Fireworks and sparklers; Capture the Flag; Ghost in the Graveyard; Flashlight Tag; show movies outdoors; campfires; bonfires; stargazing; watching meteor showers; watching for satellites; catch nightcrawlers for bait; play with any toys that light up or glow in the dark; night hikes; raccoon hunting; night fishing; tell ghost stories; catch lightning bugs; drive-in movies; just enjoy being outdoors after the sun is down and it's not too hot like in the daytime. You must have had a boring urban childhood.

  • Vince Smith||

    Quit whining.

  • Steve-O||

    DST is gay, just like you.

  • vek||

    Or you could just be a man and stay up past 10 PM? I'm a night owl, so 10 seems suuuper early to me anyway... But staying up an extra hour to go do night time activities is not a big deal either way.

  • Vernon Depner||

    Unless you have responsibilities and have to get up in the morning.

  • harpac||

    Well said!

  • Juice||

    Nah what sucks is when the sun sets at 4:45 pm. That's some bullshit right there.

  • Vince Smith||

    So you'd rather have the sun set at 5:45 but have it rise at 8:30 while kids are in school?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    HOW WILL PEOPLE KNOW WHEN IT'S TIME TO CHANGE THE BATTERIES IN THEIR SMOKE DETECTORS??? REASON LITERALLY WANTS PEOPLE TO DIE IN A FIRE.

  • Vince Smith||

    I never change the batteries in mine, even with DST. LOL.

  • vek||

    What smoke detectors? I took those things down years ago! They went off when I cooked steaks correctly (AKA put good char on 'em), so out they went. I can see why they're a good idea in big buildings, but come on man... If you don't wake up when your house is on fire, you should probably die. Carbon Monoxide detectors are probably more useful.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Steaks should be grilled out of doors.

  • Echospinner||

    Yup.

    Only just keep it on DST if that I see what people want.

    And switch to metrics

  • AlmightyJB||

    I hate DST. It's the worst.

  • Tony||

    The utter hell that comes in the spring is not worth the extra hour at the club we get in the fall, especially considering I don't go clubbing much anymore and will probably be in an ambien stupor when the clocks switch.

  • TuIpa||

    "ambien "

    Have you tried taking it all at once?

    Wait, sorry, I forgot who I was talking to," taking it all at once" is your legal name.

  • Tony||

    Have you ever tried caring about or being cared about by another human being?

  • perlchpr||

    Yes.

    It ended in pain.

  • ||

    Have you ever tried caring about or being cared about by another human being?

    Why - are you curious what it's like?

  • TuIpa||

    Stop trying to get a date from me, I am above your station and I don't date trailer trash like you.

    Now take your Ambien.

  • JesseAz||

    What if Tony and Arthur merged into one human... would they be close to your station?

  • Tony||

    Note the subject's inability to even comprehend the question.

  • LynchPin1477||

    I'm also in favor of a one-time shift of the entire calendar one month forward to better align holidays with the climate (as defined wherever I am living at the moment). It doesn't snow enough on Christmas anymore, dammit!

  • Vernon Depner||

    I'm in favor of a calendar with 13 months of 28 days, with each year beginning with a New Year Day which is neither of day of a month nor a day of the week. (In leap years, a Leap Day would follow, which is also neither a day of a month nor a day of the week.) Then, every month would be identical, with exactly four weeks. You would never need to look at a calendar—if it was the second Monday of the month, it would always be the 9th.

  • The Last American Hero||

    But it would encourage the patriarchy by allowing men to better understand their lady's calendar.

  • CptNerd||

    Obviously a simpler method would be metric time, then you would just move the decimal point.

  • Vernon Depner||

    Sure. Just have years of 100 days, and ten months with ten days. Ignore the rising and setting of the sun, just as metric measurements ignore the common sense and usefulness of traditional units of measure.

  • vek||

    Metric days, months etc are ridiculous on account of the sun and our orbit... BUT there is NO REASON base 10 time wouldn't be AWESOME.

    The only reason we have the current 12/24 hour thing is because of those cunts in ancient Babylon and their gay base 12 numbering system anyway!

    10 hour days with 100 minutes each would only be about 40% off from a current minute. The number of seconds would actually be even closer, only about 14% off from a current second!

    It would be a bitch and a half for a few decades... But it WOULD be a better system.

  • Vernon Depner||

    I thought the Babylonians used base 60 numbers.

  • mpercy||

    Because 60 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, and 30. Made fractions of piles of 60 things a lot easier most of the time.

  • vek||

    Derp. Yeah, that was it. But it is 12 because they used 12s a lot of the time, on account of 60 dividing easily into 12s. It's something a teacher babbled about in school something like 20 years ago!

  • PeteRR||

    How about 12 - 30 day months with a 5 or 6 day Saturnalia celebration each year.

  • Vernon Depner||

    Then you're back to having the dates on different days of the month again.

  • CE||

    now this is an idea we should all get behind

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Arizona doesn't have it. Only Arizona (And our Hopi friends on the reservation, damn those Navajo traitors) is brave enough to stand against the stupidity of DST.

  • Arizona_Guy||

    Bingo. DST is an abomination, like low-carb beer.

  • The Last American Hero||

    Splitters.

  • Rat on a train||

    Arizona, Hawaii, and territories like American Samoa and Puerto Rico
    Why isn't Alaska on that list? Does Fairbanks really need sunset after midnight?

  • Remember to keep it all polit||

    *Territories* covers Alaska, thankyouverymuch. One of these days it may aspire to statehood, but not now, not soon.

  • Agammamon||

    Wait, I'm confused - I though Obama said Alaska was the 52nd state
    .

  • mpercy||

    Many people will say that Obama said there were 57 states.

    Actually, Obama seemed to think--at least for a few seconds--that there were 60 states.

    "It is wonderful to be back in Oregon. Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states. I think one left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit, but my staff would not justify it."

    Been in 57 states. [57]

    One left to go. [58]

    Alaska and Hawaii not allowed to go/not justified [60].

    I'm pretty sure he just misspoke, but at least let's get the math straight.

  • No Longer Amused||

    It's one more way in which the government informs you that you are powerless to stop their inane and meaningless intrusions into your life for no reason at all.

  • Vince Smith||

    Time in and of itself is a government intrusion. There is an official civil time determined by the government even without the issue of DST.

  • Steve-O||

    If I'm not mistaken, time exists independent of government.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    Before government got involved the measure of time was high noon. Halfway between sunup and sundown. Any town or organized community had a guy that kept track and rang the noon bell, whistle or siren. Time tracked the sun and was different in every town. The little village near my house still has a noon siren. The idea that noon could happen at the same time across hundreds of miles was, and is, pretty radical. There is only one high noon wherever you may be.

  • TuIpa||

    "The constant back and forth is confusing, especially for those who have an early Sunday morning commitment. "

    So you're saying you have far too many chromosomes.

  • CE||

    Sunday is a day of rest. And football.

  • DiegoF||

    Fake News! These states do not need Congressional approval because they are "trying to abolish DST"; they need it because they are trying to change time zones! Of course I am sure most commenters here will not care and think both are none of Congress's business anyway. But accuracy is accuracy and this is a sloppy-ass report.

    If you wish--and this is how the change is described to the public of these states--the states are not trying to "abolish DST"; quite the opposite, they are trying to have it year round. I am strongly opposed to DST, and I consider this "year round DST" to be an abomination. Indiana, for its part, should be in Central or should not have DST. These new states want to put themselves in wildly inappropriate time zones; Florida is the most preposterous offender. It is well to the west of the Northeast; no part of it is much to the east of Michigan and part of it is in Central! Yet Florida, with its capital a short drive away from the same time zone as the parts of Texas bordering New Mexico, wants to be in the time zone now occupied only by the Canadian Maritimes.

  • DiegoF||

    Amendment: Actually the report is a lot clearer on this matter than I thought. Still does not properly point out just what these states are trying to do--namely, putting themselves on year round DST not abolishing it at all. (Or, if you will, changing time zones.)

  • DiegoF||

    Also I may have overstated my passion for abolishing DST. DST is like the DH. Arizona, Hawaii, American Samoa, and my beloved Puerto Rico, as well as the months we still have left free of this ever-advancing abomination are my National League. They give me hope and strength, and as long as they are around I feel it cannot be that bad. But now, after decades of grumbling against these respective innovations, and when the case against them is in fact stronger than ever, they suddenly look more entrenched than ever! Indiana was the (equally baffling) shift of high schools, minors, and most leagues worldwide to the DH. And now the grumbling against the respective principles has changed to grumbling about "uniformity." So now people who think it's silly to have biannual clock changes, or two "leagues" (actually conferences, stripped of baseball's characteristically pretentious nomenclature, just as "managers" are actually head coaches--dressed up as players for some reason) playing different games, think we solve this by making the abomination universal. Resist!

  • DiegoF||

    Good news! It seems Rubio is making a pro forma attempt to represent his state but does not expect it to go anywhere in Congress. You crack that whip, you beautiful central government!

  • Paloma||

    Why not just decide work days are from 7am to 4pm. Then you don't need to mess with DST.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    With government mandated Siesta at 1:00.

  • Agammamon||

    they need it because they are trying to change time zones!

    OK - but then that just shifts the question to why they would need Congressional Approval (which they don't, they need DOT approval) to shift time-zones? Why would it be any business of Congress what time zone a state was in? And, practically, is there anything Congress could do if they just up and said 'fuck it' and did it anyway?

  • DiegoF||

    I think the change is asinine, but I'd almost consider it worth it if the scenario you describe plays out. The state votes to change; the Federal government refuses. Let two time systems then commence; the Federal government can use their time for their purposes, the state for theirs. I feel a similar way over the dumb renaming of Mt. McKinley. Alaska called it Denali the whole time; let that be its "state government" name, with all signage they control saying so, and McKinley be its "Federal government" one, and private mapmakers calling it whatever they want.

    One problem with your scenario I will admit is that citizens today rely heavily on Federal government offices, and also for example all banks (and there is no such thing as "local banking" in this country) have some significance for "banking hours" (regardless of their branch lobby hours) which is going to follow the Federal government. Florida residents may find all this very inconvenient for their day. Additionally most current contractual language involving Florida businesses likely is indexed to "local time" with the assumption that there is only one.

  • DiegoF||

    ...There may be a way to cope with all of this yet. Florida should seek guidance from Indiana, whose residents and businesses had experience dealing as a matter of daily life (before the recent EDT abomination) with both "fast time" and "slow time" at any given time of year. Some counties even unilaterally changed their "official" time without Federal (and therefore, officially state) recognition, and their residents and businesses used that time as their primary one. And my understanding is that Labradorians almost uniformly use Newfoundland time in practice, even though they are officially Atlantic; some other Canadian locales at the border of Eastern and Atlantic do the same.

  • DiegoF||

    Addendum: Forgot to mention that there may be Federal labor regulations indexed to "local time" as well. And perhaps businesses and customers making transactions overnight (perhaps interstate but even intra-, given the well-known generous reach of the Federal government) will run into lots of problems regarding what day they did something. What a (potential) mess; perhaps even Indiana's rather recent experience would have been unsustainable in today's far more interlinked (e.g. ecommerce) business environment.

    Perhaps time is something like weights and measures, where we probably could set up society to function on decentralized and private standards with a much more limited role for government ones; but getting from here to there is in practice possible only with a commitment from the currently dominant central authority; for any lesser party to try unilaterally to change things is not feasible.

    I try to gently get people thinking casually in less unnecessarily statist terms--for instance, thinking not in terms of "national" holidays as they have in Europe, but that in this country we only have "Federal holidays," affecting the operations of government offices and banking, and "state holidays," affecting those government offices. There are no official holidays for private businesses or individuals. But people don't really think that way.

  • DiegoF||

    Brief further addendum: In a few decades, technology will probably obviate the practical need for time zones at all, finally bringing the age of "railroad-driven time" to a close. Just as technology will bring such "textbook" market assumptions as perfect competition, perfect information, etc. (along with even more ambitious conditions like currency competition) more into practical implementation than ever! But by that time, ever advancing statism will have probably brought our sociopolitical culture further away from taking any advantage of those potentials than ever.

  • Agammamon||

    "These new states want to put themselves in wildly inappropriate time zones;"

    Inappropriate by who's standards?

  • DiegoF||

    By the physics of planet Earth. I conceded that in terms of political ideology I probably should say that the states get to choose to be on Hong Kong time if they feel like passing that law.

  • Agammamon||

    Are you saying that there is a specific clock reading that is physically required to coincide with sunrise?

  • DiegoF||

    I am saying that there is such a thing as solar time. I did not innovate this physical reality, nor the ancient historical fact of such concepts as "noon" and "midnight" referring to the midpoints between sunrise and sunset and vice versa respectively, long before the first train or telegraph line ever created the favorable circumstances for standardization.

    Of course we can call it "midnight" in Manhattan when the sun sets over New Jersey if we wish; words are just words, and their working definitions always reflect the practicalities of social circumstance as much as anything. I discussed with one commenter here the possibility of everyone across the globe moving toward describing their business and social interactions in terms of UTC. China has long implemented a local version of this, adjusting local practices to one enormous time zone.

    This is a viable practice, whose time may come, because crucially it involves an explicit awareness of a new concept of time standardization. It's the most "naturally" libertarian-friendly arrangement--its viability, as with so many other such developments, enhanced by the rise of technology. Every party decides what hours to keep, with government deciding only the hours of its own offices and not determining norms of such great social weight for the rest of society; the invisible hand will guide every locality to center its social and business life around the most efficient schedule.

  • DiegoF||

    ...Without a commitment to this explicit change of system, however, the fact remains that government is in the driver's seat so they might as well do it right. And the fact remains that mean solar midnight is almost exactly EST midnight right in Philadelphia, the geographic center of the time zone. Maine alone would be a halfway reasonable candidate for a switch to Atlantic; even then, it would be moving further away from solar time. Massachusetts in Atlantic is absurd; Florida, at its easternmost point nearly as close to Chicago as to New York, is insane. That is what I meant (at least as far as the physics goes).

  • DiegoF||

    (BTW if I were to found a seastead I'd certainly use Zulu for all government offices! Defence would be our primary function anyway so hardly an unnatural choice there. Spread the word!)

  • Praveen R.||

    It's the dumbest thing for sure. Why can't people just wake up earlier or later depending on the season? And our economy has become a virtual 24 hour economy. More people stay up later these days.

    So when they turn back clocks and a guy gets murdered at 1:30am. Is it the first instance of 1:30 am or when they change the clock back and then hit 1:30 again? How do they report that?

  • DiegoF||

    Also what happens if you feed your mogwai at one time or the other. (When can you start feeding them again in the morning anyway?) I think a laundry list of issues like this was actually brought up but not answered at one point.

  • CLM1227||

    Feeding a newborn ever 2-3 hours... some moms set alarms...

  • The Last American Hero||

    Both times are after midnight, so you are screwed either way.

    You may feed them after dawn.

  • CLM1227||

    1:30 ST, 1:30 DST :p

    Like BC and AD, AM and PM.

  • DiegoF||

    Or Julian and Gregorian (Old Style and New Style).

  • DaveSs||

    Why can't people just wake up earlier or later depending on the season?

    That would then mean changing all the signs at shops, and work shifts, and whatnot.

    It would be eminently more confusing.

  • DaveSs||

    Why can't people just wake up earlier or later depending on the season?

    That would then mean changing all the signs at shops, and work shifts, and whatnot.

    It would be eminently more confusing.

  • Agammamon||

    No it wouldn't. Tons of shops have seasonal hours. How much harder could it be to change one sign in your shop compared to changing one clock?

  • vek||

    Well, since all clocks are designed to be set... Possibly a lot harder if you have a "fancy" sign of some sort. Or really easy for other designs of signs. It would depend.

  • Vince Smith||

    Praveen, one is 1:30 a.m. DST, and the other is 1:30 a.m. Standard Time. That's how we know the difference.

  • perlchpr||

    Hrm. I'd be for ditching it, except, if it actually harms MA, then we should keep it.

    Yes, I'm petty.

  • perlchpr||

    Oh, damn. I read the MA link. It's just that the people of MA are too stupid to understand that the numbers they attach to things won't actually affect the amount of actual daylight at all.

  • NoVaNick||

    e people of MA are too stupid

    Yep-I read the article and they say they want to move 1 hr forward to attract Millennials, who prefer more daylight. Having lived there for my first 25 years, I knew Mass. politicians were retarded, but not that retarded. Glad I left.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    What's water fluoridation, chopped liver?

  • The Last American Hero||

    Compared the ability of government to control time, the mind control effects of fluoride pale in comparison. The fluoridation also doesn't work very well, since people are bitching about DST rather than quietly comply.

  • Rat on a train||

    communist plot
    POE

  • vek||

    You know it REALLY was used in concentration camps right? Because it REALLY DOES make people more docile? And its dental health effects are largely bunk when in the water supply, vs more concentrated in tooth paste etc.

    It isn't going to kill anybody, but it's not actually a very good thing, and we waste a ton of money putting it in water...

  • rrgg||

    DST matters for people in the north where the number of hours of daylight changes a lot. Southerners are oblivious to this. Without it kids in the winter would go to school in the dark and there's be more morning accidents.

  • Vernon Depner||

    You've got it backwards. We go OFF of Daylight Savings Time in the winter.

  • Muzzled Woodchipper||

    My kids have been going to school in the dark for about 3 weeks now. Doesn't get light until 8.15 or later.

    That's why DST sucks donk.

  • Vince Smith||

    But at least we don't have DST in December and January. DST is good during the summer with the late sunsets.

  • Agammamon||

    Then just get up earlier/later.

  • Agammamon||

    You guys talk as if *government is important in deciding when people get out of bed in the morning*. Its insane.

  • vek||

    I think the point is that it's easier to change the time on paper, versus adjusting every schedule, posted time, etc in the entire universe... Which is what "getting up earlier" would entail.

    And yeah, up north it makes a lot more difference when the time changes. In Washington we have a big swing with the seasons, growing up in California you hardly even noticed it.

  • CE||

    DST doesn't change the number of hours of daylight, at all.

  • Ben_||

    I like DST. We should keep it all year round.

  • NoVaNick||

    Yes, springing forward kills me, I am cognitively useless for the first week or so after the time change. Keeping it year round would eliminate that at least.

  • vek||

    Seriously? Going to be an hour earlier or later REALLY screws you up?

    You must have weak genes man... A swing of a mere hour, even from day to day and being all over the map, does nothing to me.

  • Deep Lurker||

    If we're going to have Daylight Saving Time, it should only be in effect when there is enough daylight to be worth saving: More than 12 hours. I could go with eliminating DST entirely, but I think I'd prefer limiting it to starting it on the first Sunday in April (after the Spring Equinox) and ending it on the second Sunday in September (before the Fall Equinox).

    The current DST system is a bad one, and the idea of making DST a year-round thing is even worse.

  • perlchpr||

    I don't actually care what numbers they attach to the amount of time after midnight, I just want it to stay the same.

    Seriously, who gives a fuck if they just declare it to suddenly be 0400. The important part is that the length of hours be consistent. As far as I'm concerned they could get rid of time zones altogether and just use Zulu time everywhere on the planet.

  • Slocum||

    "If we're going to have Daylight Saving Time, it should only be in effect when there is enough daylight to be worth saving"

    I disagree completely -- in the winter, light is a scarce resource and should be allocated to hours when it's most useful. Most people find after-school/after-work light more useful than light before work or school.

    In fact, when I've traveled to places in the tropics, I've often thought they need at least an hour of daylight savings time. 7AM to 7PM daylight would be better than 6-6. Nobody needs sun at 6AM -- but an extra hour of light in the evening would be useful.

  • I'm Not Sure||

    There is about an hour difference in sunrise/sunset time between the eastern and western sides of the Central time zone in December. Keeping DST or not won't change this, so somebody is going to be unhappy no matter what you do.

  • DaveSs||

    Everyone not named Franklin D. Roosevelt hates Daylight Saving Time.
    I LOVE IT.
    Especially in March when suddenly the sun stops setting at 5:30PM and magically shifts to 6:30 PM, and eventually in the summer sets for a whole 7 weeks sometime after 8:30PM.

    More outdoor fun, and you don't have to go beg the boss to let you shift your work hours by one.

    The constant back and forth is confusing,
    Adding and subtracting by one is confusing?
    Luckily most of the clocks we care about these days do the calculus level math of +1 and -1 for us while we sleep.

  • Vernon Depner||

    But some "outdoor fun" requires darkness. Where I live, it doesn't get fully dark until almost 10:00 pm in the middle of summer. The kids have to stay up until almost midnight to see the Fourth of July fireworks or to properly enjoy a campfire. It sucks.

  • DaveSs||

    I have to admit, I did I find that annoying when we went to Munising this year for Independence Day (excellent place to watch fireworks btw)

    But then its only one night really.

  • Muzzled Woodchipper||

    This. Having light until 10+ is bullshit.

  • Slocum||

    Having light late is *awesome*. Go to Alaska or Iceland in the summer sometime. It's fantastic. You can do whatever you want whenever you want. The only (minor) drawback is needing blackout shades when you sleep.

  • vek||

    As someone who lives in Washington, I disagree. It's sweet when it's light out until that late in the summer. You can do outdoor stuff until super late, and go do your drinkin' later once it's dark!

  • Oli||

    No mention of the recent remarkably direct democratic decision of the EU to get rid of DST?

  • Colossal Douchebag||

    This article and commentary are the best argument I've seen for keeping U.S. time standards under federal control.

    And I hate federal control of anything.

    The DOT calls the time schedule because regular time is important for transportation. In other words, it's important to be able to figure out what time it is somewhere else. Ever think about how easy that is in the U.S. today?

    If you guys had your way we'd have 500 different time zones in the U.S. next week, and no one would have the slightest idea when their flight was actually landing in Denver. No thanks.

  • Agammamon||

    You know when it took off. You know where you're going. You can find the time difference and add it in. Its not rocket science, its automated, and its being done *right now anyway* - its just a matter of adding in some more time zones if necessary.

    As for 'Federal control' - seriously, how much control does the Federal government have if trucking company A decides their company clocks will be set 15 minutes ahead? Or if the state government says that the state government's time will be 1 hour different?

    And how do you think 'transportation' through places like my own home of Arizona work? Do you think half the year everything is all higgeldy-piggedly because we're now at the same time as Pacific and out of whack with Mountain?

  • vek||

    As someone who sees the virtues in decentralization in most things... This one is truly retarded.

    The fact is, having tons of time zones is a stupid idea. It's retarded. But it would likely happen. Sometimes just having consistency is worth minor gripes that will always come with any standard. I think this is one of those.

    The only way "free market time" would conceivably be "better" than a mandated one, is if it ended up EXACTLY like what we use now... Which is to say a couple simple, and consistent time zones... Which would negate the ENTIRE POINT of decentralizing it in the first place.

    Privatize the roads? Sure! End public schools? Sweet! But let the time zones stay mandated, because it really doesn't make shit all of a difference either way, except to whiny bitches apparently...

  • JeremyR||

    Sorry, as a person who actually enjoys being outside in the summer, I much prefer it staying light until 9 pm, as opposed to having it start becoming daylight at 3:30 am in the morning

  • Agammamon||

    Uhm, get up earlier. You get the same amount of light each way. That's all DST does anyway.

  • Vince Smith||

    No. "Get up earlier" is a stupid statement, especially since the work day does NOT change hours.

  • JSR2||

    I've designed software for embedded systems that handles DST. Doomsday algorithm and all. Interesting problem but doable. The absolute worst part is that the schedule for the switchovers between DST and standard time keep changing! Hates DST! HATES IT!

  • Colossal Douchebag||

    I've worked in the utilities industry. It's a real joy to trade electricity for 24 hours on each of 363 days, but 25 hours for one and 23 hours for another. The number of things it fucks up at a software level is uncountable. But it's still better than anarchy.

  • Fk_Censorship||

    Then you've got the 366th day once every four years. That sounds like a nightmare, as well. That terrible Julius and his astronomers!

  • xsnake||

    Davis sober when he penned this gem?

  • DaveSs||

    I've said it before:

    The reason people have such a shit fit about the two days of the year that we switch time a bit is because the costs are realized on that Second Sunday in March and first Sunday in November.

    The benefits of a later apparent sunset are realized in mid spring, throughout summer, and into mid autumn, as well as (to a lesser extent) mid winter.

  • DaveSs||

    When I say mid winter, what I mean is mid December through mid January.

  • Muzzled Woodchipper||

    Yes.

    DST was extended by 6 weeks, 3 weeks on either side, about a decade or more ago under GWB, with the reason being we needed more daylight to avoid power usage.

  • Vince Smith||

    It was only extended one week into the fall.

  • I'm Not Sure||

    Some people want more light in the evening so they can do stuff after work and others want more light in the morning so their kids don't have to go to school in the dark. Until these two groups come to some sort of agreement, a discussion of having DST vs. not having it is kind of a waste of time, it would seem.

  • DaveSs||

    An excellent blog post/web app showing how DST as currently practiced gives both ends of that spectrum the most of what they want. Earlier sunrise in Winter, and later sunsets the rest of the year.

    http://andywoodruff.com/blog/w.....o-love-it/

  • NoVaNick||

    Its already rather dark when my kids go to school, but still light when we pick them up from the after school program around 5:30. I don't think they care about it being darker in the morning, but like having more light at the end of the day.

  • Vince Smith||

    Not true. Year round DST was tried one year, and people complained about school in the dark.

  • Vince Smith||

    We have the agreement, I'm Not Sure. The current system is a compromise. We have DST in the summer and ST in the winter. Both sides get their way at least part of the year.

  • PapayaSF||

    Off-topic announcement: Saturday evening November 3rd there will be a H&R/Reasonoids meetup in San Francisco. If you'd like to attend, email me at my handle at gmail.com for more info.

  • Vince Smith||

    1. This is not really a libertarian issue.
    2. I like DST. Late sunsets during the summer are great. Who wants the sun up before 5 a.m.?
    3. The people for year round DST are just as wrong as the a time-DST people. Sunrise would be after 9 a.m. in parts of the country in December if we switched to having DST all year.

  • Echospinner||

    Sorry that sunrise not happening at the same clock time is inconvenient for you. None of us control the rotation of the planet.

    It is a libertarian issue when the government forces us to reset our clocks.

    Who put the government in charge of time?

  • Juice||

    None of us control the rotation tilt of the planet.

  • Vince Smith||

    But you support the states controlling the clocks. That's still government. Obviously the government has control over the clocks. It's not up to each individual to determine what time it is. Lol.

  • Vince Smith||

    DST is better during the summer. Standard is better during the winter. The system is fine. I am used to AZ and HI being different, but we don't need other states going rogue and making everything confusing. Year round DST is illegal, btw.

  • Agammamon||

    . . . it must seek approval from DOT.

    Like, how does that work? Will the DOT's SWAT teams break down the doors to state government buildings and forcibly change the time on all the clocks inside?

  • Phillip||

    We need some egghead to tell us if DST is contributing to man made global climate change! Also, it is racist/sexist/homophobic/etc.? These are the important questions!

  • crufus||

    DST is a pain for computer system job scheduling. If you have a job scheduled to start at 1:30 am on Sunday, you may be surprised to find the it runs twice after the system time goes from 2:00 am back to 1:00 am during the fall time change. Or a job scheduled to start at 2:30 am does not run at all when the time skips ahead from 2:00 am to 3:00 am during the spring time change.

    Doesn't sound so bad unless you an managing jobs on hundreds of computers. You may be able to avoid the issue by not scheduling any jobs to start between 00:59:59 am and 3:00 am, but many systems are just too busy to give up a two hour processing window.

    Also, if you are time stamping when something happened, how do you know which of the two 1:30 am's something happened on during the fall time change? It's a good reason to record all time stamps in UTC time, but that has it's own challenges when you want to convert it back to the local time.

  • DaveSs||

    Get better scheduling software

    Scheduling software should sleep for 1 hour at fall back. Then it won't re-run. (This does not present a downtime in your window because its repeating)

    In spring forward, the software should at 3AM execute every job that begins from 2AM to 2:59AM. This potentially is more of a problem as you are now consuming extra resources with simultaneous jobs.

    Presentation layers convert to local

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    I don't care which system is used, but it should be uniform and constant. No more switching back and forth.

  • Vince Smith||

    Just admit you're too lazy to set your clocks.

  • frankania||

    My plan would be to have the WHOLE WORLD use GMT with numbers 0000 to 2400...then each traditional time zone could declare what number is dawn, noon, eve, etc. No confusion...Every moment of time would be the exact same number for all humans.

  • DiegoF||

    That is probably--clearly, even, I think--the system that would be used if we could design timekeeping from scratch for the world we live in today. What we have instead is encrustations that are the baggage of history. But it would probably be too much of a cultural adjustment to make fully at this point, from where I stand. We may inch that way in part in future decades, though, who knows? At least a concurrent awareness of Zulu time may become a commonplace for ordinary citizens of the future.

  • crufus||

    All modern computer operating systems and GPS use UTC time (not GMT but similar) internally, so we are close.
    Computers convert time to the local time zone for display purposes, but the internal time is UTC.

    The US military uses already uses ZULU time (another name for UTC). It's helpful to prevent airstrikes from arriving an hour early or late because of time zone confusion.

    Dawn, noon, and evening are determined by the sun, not the local time zone.

  • lafe.long||

    Obvious solution: change the clocks by 1/2 hour, then leave them alone.

  • OldGuy||

    If I could save time in a bottle
    The first thing that I'd like to do
    Is to save every day
    'Til eternity passes away
    --Jim Croce

    It's astounding;
    Time is fleeting;
    Madness takes its toll
    --Richard O'Brien

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
    Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
    --Roger Waters

  • Vernon Depner||

    We gonna pitch a wang dang doodle all night long—Wille Dixon

  • Juice||

    No Steve Miller?

  • Eddy||

    Diddly-DUM, diddly-DUM, Diddly-DUM, diddly-DUM, Diddly-DUM, diddly-DUM, Diddly-DUM, WOOOO-OOOOO!
    --Dr. Who Theme

  • Eddy||

    Time goes by so slowly
    And time can do so much
    --The Righteous Brothers

  • Eddy||

    Sunrise, sunset, Sunrise, sunset
    Swiftly flow the days
    Seedlings turn overnight to sunflowers
    Blossoming even as we gaze
    Sunrise, sunset, Sunrise, sunset
    Swiftly fly the years
    One season following another
    Laden with happiness and tears

  • Eddy||

    'Cause I've had the time of my life
    And I owe it all to you

  • Eddy||

  • Eddy||

  • Eddy||

  • Eddy||

    Speaking of things that are too short...

    Hey, how did that NSFW stuff get in here?

  • Echospinner||

    No zombies?

    It's the time of the season
    When love runs high
    And this time, give it to me easy
    And let me try with pleasured hands
    To take you in the sun to (promised lands)
    To show you every one
    It's the time of the season for loving
    What's your name?
    Who's your daddy?
    (He rich) Is he rich like me?
    Has he taken, any time (any time)
    (To show) to show you what you need to live

  • vek||

    Seriously?

    I never get why people get so peeved about the time change. It more or less makes sense. It puts MOST peoples schedules more in line with sunlight hours... How is that a bad thing? For any particular jobs where it messes anything up, they are free to shift their start times by an hour to adjust...

    I mean it wouldn't be the end of the world if we ended it, but it's definitely not massively harmful, and IMO is still slightly useful.

  • OldGuy||

    I think this is just another in a long line of writer has looming deadline and doesn't have anything to write about.

    Sunrise and sunset change throughout the year when compared to an arbitrary artificial measure (our clocks). This just points out the imperfect nature of our time measurement and reminds us that the universe is laughing at us. I choose to celebrate twice a year by laughing with the universe (especially as I go around the house changing clocks).

    We are a silly species.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    No problem ditching the change, so long as DST is the standard.

    Mornings are for sleeping. It may as well be dark. Sun in the evening when it's useful.

    WHY DO YOU HATE THE SUNSHINE, ZURI?

  • Vince Smith||

    America is going to stick with the current system. DST has problems during the winter with kids going to school in the dark, which is dangerous.

  • Naaman Brown||

    The switch from Standard Time to Daylight Saving Time inflicts a week or so of government mandated jet lag on vast numbers of the public.

    It is cruel and unusual punishment inflicted with a total disregard for due process.

    12:00 moon should be High Noon year around. It's only natural.

    You want more daylight, adjust your schedule. Quit messin with the clocks.

  • Vince Smith||

    For 12:00 to be high noon in all places, we'd have to get rid of time zones and give each city its own time (which we had back in the 1800s). So what you're arguing for is absurd. 12:00 is not always high noon even during Standard Time, and high noon actually changes throughout the year because of earth's irregular orbit, which is not a perfect circle.

  • OldGuy||

    taken to it's extreme, high noon would be different (theoretically measurable) for my neighbor and me...we are at different longitudes after all

  • vek||

    People who bitch about an hour difference either way as far as sleep are pussies. Seriously, it's not that bad. Who the heck falls asleep at EXACTLY any time on the regular anyway? Work early? Okay, maybe you crash between 9PM and 10PM regularly... But it's not like you go to sleep at EXACTLY 9:38PM EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. Even if somebody was such a freak that they laid down at EXACTLY the same time every night, when they actually fell asleep for real would still end up varying.

    So that whole stupid argument about how HORRIBLE it is to shift your sleep by an hour... Give it up.

  • OldGuy||

    bingo

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    People who bitch about an hour difference either way as far as sleep are pussies.

    Well, vek, these 'pussies' are driving to work an hour different than what they expect, are unexpectedly tired, and they get into car wrecks with "real manly men" like yourself.

  • vek||

    Because they're not smart enough to go to sleep an hour earlier than the night before?

    Even if you go an hour short on sleep... I have never felt dead tired from that in my life. Sleep 3 hours? Sure I'm beat to hell! But 7 instead of 8... At best I'm meh, but not falling asleep walking.

    The effect exists, but I'm just saying that it's not nearly as severe as all these whiners are making it out to be.

  • CE||

    Arizona, Hawaii, and territories like American Samoa and Puerto Rico have broken free of oppressive time changes.

    Maybe that's because the University of American Samoa produces great lawyers....

  • CE||

    Even better answer: everyone uses GMT, and local businesses set their own opening and closing times and work shift hours, adjusting seasonally as needed.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Wow what an amazing idea. It's decentralized and individualized... dare I say it is libertarian

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    This is absurd. The state is mandating that we all change our clocks twice a year based on pseudo-scientific bullshit, and we have commenters here DEFENDING it. I can't even.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Here is a link to a bunch of studies that discusses the pros and cons of DST:

    http://sciencebasedmedicine.or.....ving-time/

    The energy savings are negligible at best. And the costs associated with people being forced to change their sleeping habits twice a year are real.

    The state is actually HARMING people with mandated DST.

  • Nuwanda||

    Just adding another entry to my list of libertarian types: sunshine-libertarian.

    Oops, better add anarcho-sunshine-libertarian, and left-sunshine-libertarian.

  • dew||

    "The century-old justifications related to farming"

    If the author had spent 10 minutes researching the subject before writing the article, he could have found there were never justifications related to farming. In fact the exact opposite - the very first attempt to implement daylight savings time (the British parliament in the early 20th century) was killed by farmers objecting.

  • tlapp||

    An idiotic idea from the start, FDR was the source of a lot of idiocy but then again he thought he and the government should make all decisions.

  • Vince Smith||

    One good thing about setting the clocks is that it's good for checking the accuracy of your clocks. There is quite some clock drift after a few months. If not for setting our clocks twice a year, a lot of us would let them continue to drift.

  • majil||

    I live in AZ ,we do not do this nonsense we opted out , ,clocks don't change .

  • GA958632||

    I'll wager your position on the DST switch is directly related to where you live:

    - Northern latitudes and eastern edge of the time zone? "DST all year, baby!"
    - Southern latitudes and western edge of the time zone? "Standard Time all year, baby!"
    - Central latitudes and middle of the time zone? "What are all you people blathering on about twice a year..?"

  • Curiouser George||

    Everyone hates it? Nice unsubstantiated claim to lead off an article. You should write for the Guardian or the Post.

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