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Aziz Ansari, Bad Sex, and the Dangers of 'Relying on Nonverbal Cues or Mind Reading'

Consent is sexy, but fear is a real mood-killer.

AnsariMario Anzuoni/REUTERS/NewscomCNN asked me to contribute to a roundup of comments on "how to date in 2018." The prompt was last week's news about actor Aziz Ansari, who was accused of mistreating a woman—ignoring her nonverbal protestations—during an intimate encounter at his apartment. As I wrote in the CNN piece:

What allegedly happened to "Grace" in Aziz Ansari's apartment was unpleasant, but almost nobody believes it was sexual assault. Most of the pundits who weighed in called it bad sex or worse, but not anything violent or criminal. Grace herself disagreed; she told Babe.net that "after a really long time," she came to view the experience as assault rather than mere awkwardness. Ansari released a statement that said he thought the encounter was "completely consensual."

It's not just the pundits. I was on Michael Smerconish's Sirius XM radio program last week when he revealed the results of a poll of his listeners, 95 percent of whom did not believe Ansari's behavior constituted sexual assault.

Differences of opinion seem especially pronounced between older and younger feminists. Matt Welch highlighted those differences—vis a vis a feud between HLN's Ashleigh Banfield and babe.net reporter Katie Way—in a recent Reason blog post.

I don't know the ages of the other participants in the CNN roundup, and I probably shouldn't try to guess from looking at their pictures. But opinions here seemed more mixed.

Jaclyn Friedman, an activist, wrote that she hopes the #MeToo movement will "scare men into finally paying attention to women as people, whether that means realizing that they probably don't want to be hit on at work, or finally paying attention to what their female partners are experiencing during sex....No more excuses about not being a mind reader or women who aren't forthright enough."

Katie Anthony, a feminist blogger, pushed the envelope even further:

You need to know that when you take her back to your apartment, there is a part of her that wonders if she's going to die there. Not every time, not every woman. But enough of us, and often.

The threat of harm is a flip of the coin with deadly stakes. A 2017 CDC report found that half of murdered women died at the hands of a current or former partner (or their family or friends). With this knowledge, we know we must say no; we also know that resistance could cost us our lives. Say no; go along. Be strong; be easy.

According to Anthony, women can't really just say no—the threat of violence is always around the corner. She even deployed a "coin flip" metaphor, wrongly implying there's a 50-50 chance that a date ends violently.

Roxanne Jones,* a founding editor of ESPN Magazine, took a much different position:

The biggest takeaway of the Aziz Ansari story is that women and girls have to learn to talk, out loud, about our sexuality. It's time to shed the Victorian-era notions still clinging to women—even those who call themselves feminists—that make it shameful to tell a man exactly what we want sexually, and how we want it.

It's dangerous to rely on non-verbal cues or mind reading to tell a guy you're OK with oral sex (giving and receiving) and making out on the couch but you do not want to go all the way, as did the woman who called herself "Grace" in the Babe.net story about her date with Ansari.

Speaking up is difficult but there is no better time than this #MeToo moment for women to find their voices, not just to expose real predators who sexually harass and assault women, but overly zealous men, as the Babe article portrays Ansari to be, who may think "yes" to a date at his place automatically means "yes" to sex....

I wrote a column in 2013 advising my college-age son to get a text message from women to indicate they had consensual sex. Just in case, as in the Ansari story, the woman goes home feeling violated because he failed to read her non-verbal cues. I got a lot of criticism for that piece but I still stand by it.

When it comes to dating in 2018, let's talk about sex. And if your partner doesn't think that's sexy, say goodbye.

Jones' suggestion that maybe college-aged males should require their partners to fill out some kind of consent form doesn't seem crazy to me. As I said in my own take for CNN:

Such caution is desperately needed on university campuses, where modern dating culture is defined by casual, alcohol-fueled hookups. Some of these incidents cross the line into rape, and should be dealt with harshly. But many others are messier, and guys are sometimes punished severely for conduct no worse than Ansari's. As an education reporter, I've covered case after case in which administrators wrongly expelled students—often young men of color—after a sexual partner complained about an imperfect encounter.

The University of Findlay, for instance, kicked out two athletes because a female student claimed they raped her—even though a number of witnesses, according to the lawsuit filed by the two athletes against the university over their expulsion, said they not only heard her give consent, but also recalled her bragging about the encounter afterward.

A spokesperson for the university told the Washington Examiner that they would "vigorously defend the process and our decision." The case is still pending.

Nowhere are the dangers of requiring affirmative consent as a legal standard—as opposed to just, say, teaching affirmative consent as a generally good thing to which people should aspire—more apparent than on college campuses, where poorly-trained bureaucrats routinely conflate messy sexual encounters with assaults. Women certainly shouldn't live in fear of men, but nor should men live in fear of women.

Correction: Roxanne Jones' last name was written incorrectly in a previous version of this article.

Photo Credit: Mario Anzuoni/REUTERS/Newscom

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  • Incomprehensible Bitching||

    This is the inspiration for my new dating App: "YesPleaseTryToGetInMyPantsWithoutAsking.com"

  • Cy||

    I don't know what everyone is so upset about. We're all doomed as soon as we get realistic sex bots.

  • TangoDelta||

    Doomed? Isn't that the essence of Utopia 1.0? Well, along with immortality, free money, and that kind of shit. I mean we'll never be able to feed a global population of 6 billion people.

    Wait, 7 what?

  • jelabarre||

    I don't know what everyone is so upset about. We're all doomed as soon as we get realistic sex bots.

    Mmmmm yes, my pink-haired Luka bot...

  • Cy||

    Has there ever been a movement that achieved what they wanted and everyone just hugged and went home? Will there be a day feminist declare victory? At what cost?

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    I had such a movement just this morning.

  • ||

    Has there ever been a movement that achieved what they wanted and everyone just hugged and went home?

    12-31-1999? 12-21-2012?

  • Crusty Juggler||

    6/14

  • Incomprehensible Bitching||

    Yes. That was WW2, provided by the Greatest Generation.

  • Tony||

    Maybe when people start going back to the apartment and get everything they want by just hugging and going home?

  • lap83||

    You need to know that when you take her back to your apartment, there is a part of her that wonders if she's going to die there. Not every time, not every woman. But enough of us, and often.

    Good lord, are they using the "gigs" section of craigslist for dating purposes?

  • Citizen X - #6||

    If that's your outlook on dating, well, there are still some nunneries around that might be a better fit.

  • Jalestra||

    What gets me is they are so absolutely terrified of this, that they go, alone, to his or her apartment.

    Seriously, I don't hang out with known serial killers are rabid dogs, if you seriously have to think this EVERY TIME 1. get therapy and plenty of it and 2. STOP GOING ALONE WITH THEM

    How do you put yourself alone with someone if you're worried they might kill you?

  • ||

    I seriously don't understand what positive outcome these people are hoping to achieve by convincing men that every single woman is terrified of being murdered by men they go on dates with. Because the most realistic outcome is encouraging a lot of men to just not bother.

    And if it really does worry you that much then maybe you just shouldn't be going home with men, or dating them in the first place.

  • silver.||

    I just don't bother. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • JuanQPublic||

    The only answer for such a paranoid view of romance is either better self-awareness and a realistic view of human nature, or creating a sterile, sexless, surveillance safe space for everyone. Many seem to be choosing the latter.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Welcome to the world of 'Demolition Man'. Minus John Spartan and Simon Phoenix.

  • Agnes||

    These women are really going over the top. Like really. But look, that doesn't mean that everyday, non femi-nazis aren't slightly cautious when going on dates with men they don't know. Every girl I know is always excited for her girlfriends to get a date but then says, text me his name and number and description of his car in case you go missing. It's a joke*...but it also isn't. Men are just now finding out that we've been doing this for years. And look, we're obviously not scared enough to not go out, but people are still terrified of flying on planes even though statistics prove they're much more likely to die in a car crash. Sexual assault and rape is terrifying so women take secret precautions.

    That being said....was Grace in any real danger other than giving into a self involved movement so that she, too, would have a tale of woe to share? No. That's the shitty thing about this movement. There is no calm dialogue between the sexes...it went from quiet to a screaming match. And god help the man or even woman that speaks otherwise.

  • Jalestra||

    Hehe, I've been saying that and even said it just above....

  • chemjeff||

    Hey, Robby. How's the hair?

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    More importantly, how is the book?

  • Cy||

    I'm surprised he has time to write, given all of the parties he has to attend.

  • chemjeff||

    Now now. Priorities!

  • Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid||

    You'll do great at CNN. Fit. Right. In.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    LOL!

  • Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid||

    I miss Robbo.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    I would prefer to be missing Shikha, Sheldon, and Chap-Man.

  • GILMORE™||

    You need to know that when you take her back to your apartment, there is a part of her that wonders if she's going to die there.

    Criminal violence against women has been in decline, along with all other forms of violent crime, for decades

    the risk of violent crime against women it is about as low in America as it has ever been anywhere in the world, ever in history.

    this sort of imagined, perpetual threat is what the term "hysteria" means. Its not just some sneer-term to gaslight female irrationality.

    it is worth noting that the same decline in victimization of women has occurred in other places in the world, like the UK, but where claims of rape have skyrocketed

    again: crime and violence down, claims up.

    the conviction rate of actual rapes has declined to the low single digits as a consequence. and idiot journalists cover *that* number, and act as tho that's the underlying problem: that police don't have enough power to convict all the invisible rapists.

  • GILMORE™||

    *perhaps adding insult to real-injury as well...

    the real potential victims of rape? are mostly poor minorities.

    yet we're expected to treat all these upper middle-class white girls complaints about catcalls, as tho they're one-step removed from gang-violation.

    college students are less at-risk than any other women in their age group

    of course you'll never see any honest examination of data in any of the hundreds of 'me too'-related journalistic pandering.

  • Bearded Spock||

    A similar dynamic is seen in the current hysteria about HPV and cancer: the groups with the highest risk for HPV-related cancers are minority women and gay men.

    Those fresh-faced upper-middle-class white college girls featured in the vaccine ads are the ones least likely to get HPV or cancer.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    That's why we have to protect them extra hard.

  • GILMORE™||

    "that's why they should dominate the discussion"

    - which should help you understand why middle-class white women use the grievances of others as their toolkit for personal advancement.

    iow, its not about actually dealing with 'rape'; its about using 'rape' as a cultural vehicle to bash white men over the head with and to achieve status and attention from their social-media peers.

    is that incredibly cynical? - that the motives of your average SJW isn't actually 'social justice' at all, but self-promotion?

    It would be, if it wasn't true. It has the rare virtue of being true.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    When I hear the Louis CK routine where he talks about the #1 threat to women is men, then does the bit about the woman in the car on her first date, asking where they're going and the man answers "To your death, statistically"

    *laughs*

    The whole bit just seems different now that I know the guy telling it liked to trap women in the room and force them to watch him masturbate.

  • ||

    She even deployed a "coin flip" metaphor, wrongly implying there's a 50-50 chance that a date ends violently.

    Robby, I commend you on your empathic abilities. As near as I can tell, she's saying you're just as likely to be murdered by your older brother as you are by some one-night stand, which doesn't really make much more sense.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    Fear is the mood killer. If only Grace had had Bene Gesserit training.

  • The Last American Hero||

    Maybe she did and Aziz was just trying to take the Gom Jabbar.

  • ||

    Staining his lips red by drinking the Juice of Sapho sounds more accurate.

  • The Last American Hero||

    Robby is nuts. Filling out a consent form won't solve jack. As he notes in his own article, chicks like Grace are retconning their sexual experiences. Does he really think Grace wouldn't have signed the form then claimed she felt pressured to or that she was threatened to sign it - or else?

    How about an app? Because it's sooo hard to claim someone grabbed your phone and forced your thumb onto the button. Even worse if somebody was actually physically overpowered and forced to "consent" via app.

    Or we could just teach girls not to just go back to a guy's apartment and suck his dick if you aren't that into him.

  • Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid||

    Some lessons need to be learned via trial by error.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    Yeah, this is the fundamental problem with affirmative consent. If the woman changes her mind after giving consent, she is fucked.

    However, there is one possible solution to this:
    "Alexa, withdraw consent!"
    "Ok. I have noted your consent withdrawal at 10:35 pm. Would you like me to call the police?"

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Like... proper fucked?

  • Cy||

    You like dags?

  • GeneralWeygand||

    *However, there is one possible solution to this:
    "Alexa, withdraw consent!"*

    Uncannily forseeable

  • rxc||

    The engineer's solution:

    Everyone who participates in the regulated activity (sex) needs to purchase a simple push-button device which controls a separate panel with a red light and a green light. During the regulated activity, each participant must hold down the button on the controller that illuminates the green light, which shall remain visible to the other party(ies) at all times. If, at any time, a participant releases this button, the green light goes off, and a red light comes on. Optionally, a siren could start to sound, to summon outside assistance. An alcohol detector could be included, and you would have to blow (into the device) periodically to ensure that your blood alcohol does not rise to the level that you are not competent to participate.

    These days, with Wifi and Bluetooth, I bet you could make the controller wireless and small enough to easily hold in one hand, leaving the other hand free for other activities…

    I bet the Chinese could get something set up in a few weeks, and have it in stores by Xmas!

  • Zeb||

    Or we could just teach girls not to just go back to a guy's apartment and suck his dick if you aren't that into him.

    I vote for that one. And don't get naked. If you get naked, he thinks you are going to fuck him.

  • Flinch||

    Hold the phone: ogling the full monte is... mind reading? No wonder a horde of todays college grads needed a shot of thorazine in the wake of an election being held. Is it just me... or has the business of thinking been supplanted by [Leninist sponsored] asymmetrical psychological warfare in today's universities, resulting in a tidal wave of mentally ill who cracked under the stress of trying to maintain schizophrenic logic as universal truths?

  • ||

    How about an app?

    An app?!?!? Have you seen the workplace culture and pay disparity that runs rampant through Silicon Valley? Might as well just use the rape.me app.

  • Tony||

    She seemed perfectly capable of shitcanning her first date when the famous guy showed up.

  • junyo||

    There is an app. And I watched a thread of 20-something females of my acquaintance discuss how horrible the app was, how part of rape culture it was, because it didn't insure "enthusiastic" consent, only let you withdraw consent as a timestamped action, and not after the fact, and how "douchebags" would probably rely on the app to stay out of trouble.

    And I thanked God I'm married, and not to a crazy person.

    Retconning is the exactly correct word. There's a class of female that wants to fuck around, and then evaluate the experience after the fact and decide if it was assault.

  • The_Hoser||

    In Grace's defence, the dick in question was (and is) attached to a celebrity.

  • buybuydandavis||

    "Filling out a consent form won't solve jack. "

    1) But I didn't feel safe not to fill out the consent form.
    2) I know I signed the form, but I changed my mind and didn't feel safe to say so.

    The "I didn't feel safe because penises are evil" card is played, there is no solution period.

  • Billy Bones||

    Personally, I'm sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for the old Virginia Slims ads to make a roaring comeback. "You've Come A Long Way, Baby". Well, apparently not if you're still fighting the same battles you were 50 years ago.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    As I said in my own take for CNN:

    LOL! The TreasonNN mask has officially slipped! LOL! LOL!

  • Billy Bones||

    I'm beginning to believe Charlie Sheen is 100% right. Hookers are the way to go.

  • Hugh Akston||

    It worked out pretty well for him

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    That was a quantity vs. quality issue.

    I think.

  • ||

    I'm beginning to believe Charlie Sheen is 100% right. Hookers are the way to go.

    For the two-fold reason that not only does the exchange of cash verify consent, it also grounds or caps the renegotiation process should buyer's/seller's remorse occur. You don't go in for a $500 dinner/sex combo, come out publicly shamed for being a bad date and still be out the $250 that she ate/drank.

  • The_Hoser||

    That's why I take 'em to Golden Corral.

  • Cy||

    Until they withdraw consent AND take your money!

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/ne.....581027.php

  • Crusty Juggler||

    fear is a real mood-killer.

    Not for some of us.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    IMHO the best way to garner consent is to demonstrate value to a woman, usually by flashing a wad of $100 bills and a magnum condom, to show her I have money and a monster dong.

  • Tony||

    Well, money and a magnum condom.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    Tony won't get fooled again.

  • Citizen X - #6||

    Fool him once, shame on you. Fool him fifty times... well, maybe this next one will be legit.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Well I suppose it's easy to go that route. If one cannot commit to using 'the DENNIS system'.

  • Cy||

    Damn! With planning like that you should run for senator.

  • JoeBlow123||

    "Look at those hands, are they small hands? And, he referred to my hands -- 'if they're small, something else must be small.' I guarantee you there's no problem. I guarantee."

    Good enough strategy for a President, good enough for a Senator.

  • Tony||

    Given the well-established phenomenon of humans misremembering things or recharacterizing them given time, it simply can't be good enough to say that it was sexual assault, but only upon reflection and talking with your friends. You should know if you were raped or not. And you should know if you're raping someone or not.

    And we might as well use this opportunity to test the hypothesis that one's sexual orientation is a choice. Guys, feel free to choose to be homosexual if this is proving too much for you. Bitches be crazy.

  • Citizen X - #6||

    So you're recruiting now, huh? I wondered why you kept coming back to Hit'n'Run.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    If sexual orientation were a choice, the species would either die out or become completely Baptist in a few generations.

  • ||

    Men identifying as lesbians is so played out that I'm pretty sure the notion was played out while lesbians were still in the closet.

  • ||

    At least personally, Kelly McGillis's choice of sexual orientation didn't change my orientation towards her one iota. I can only assume women like Tellulah Bankhead and Mercedes de Acosta had a similar (lack of) effect (or would have) well before the current era.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    it simply can't be good enough to say that it was sexual assault, but only upon reflection and talking with your friends.

    I have a friend whose son went through this very thing.

    Kicked out of school, lost tuition etc.

  • Tony||

    Even if someone crossed a line with me, it would have to be a very wide crossing in order for me to wish to ruin the person's life over it. I get the broad cultural thing, but I don't get individual cases of women acting like sociopaths. But then I've never been one to cry to authority figures, especially cops, who are more likely than anyone to fuck you without consent.

  • Brian||

    Tony:
    "But then I've never been one to cry to authority figures, especially cops, who are more likely than anyone to fuck you without consent."

    O RLY?

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Tony, the lack of self awareness in that comment is of truly monumental proportions.

  • Incomprehensible Bitching||

    Except for Hillary Clinton. She is dreamy.

  • Tony||

    I guess her problem was that she was the less emotional and needy of the two candidates.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    No Tony, it's because she is a vile cunt. Like you.

  • Dariush||

    Hey now, I don't know about Hillary being a cunt, she lacks depth and warmth.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Damn. Those are good points. And Tony is none of those things either.

  • Flinch||

    You just had to poke the bear and draw out the people with no sense of humor, IB. Nice work.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I take my cues from Lena Dunham, the voice of a generation of women. When she said Odell Beckham wronged her by not hitting on her, I took that to heart.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Are you going to make up for Beckham's oversight by hitting on her twice as hard?

  • JuanQPublic||

    Grace herself disagreed; she told Babe.net that "after a really long time," she came to view the experience as assault rather than mere awkwardness.

    "After a really long time" really seems to mean, "when it became politically/socially expedient."

  • My Dog Bites Better Than Yours||

    You know, it took Grace "a really long time" to figure out if she had been assaulted/raped. Yet, the guy "should know better", intuitively, at the time. So much for strong, powerful woman stereotype.

  • misthiocracy||

    Speech is not violence. As long as everything "Grace" reported is factually accurate/defensible, then it's fair game.

  • Tony||

    Fair game for what? How's this:

    "Ashley McCracken was the worst lay of my life. She was all teeth and stank like a dead fish in a dumpster. Worst of all, I prefer Coke and she ordered me a Pepsi."

    It's terrible manners to publicize bad sex to the entire planet. Keep it among your close friends. If you were raped, consider calling the authorities.

  • GeneralWeygand||

    "It's terrible manners to publicize bad sex to the entire planet"

    Amen to that

  • MaleMatters||

    I sincerely believe it all could have been so very different -- so much better -- between men and women. Maybe there's still hope. See:

    "How We Waded Into The Sexual Harassment Quagmire -- Taking the Long, Hard Path Out: One Man's View" http://malemattersusa.wordpres.....-quagmire/

    This may be the most thorough analysis you can find of what I think has for many decades been the sexes' most alienating and destructive behavioral difference. I believe this difference results in much of what is called sexual coercion of women.

  • Nuwanda||

    Consent is sexy, but fear is a real mood-killer

    The author has obviously never visited Mistress Domina's Danger Dungeon.

  • inoyu||

    The MeToo women don't feel powerless. The students don't feel that they are not safe. Blacks don't worry about being assassinated by a police officer when they leave the house. These gambits are about displacing authorities or leaders and taking their places.

  • I'm Not Sure||

    "You need to know that when you take her back to your apartment, there is a part of her that wonders if she's going to die there. Not every time, not every woman. But enough of us, and often."

    Going to die there? Often? Really? But you're still thinking about going to strange guys' apartments? What are you? Fucking retarded?

    If it's that dangerous, don't go. Problem solved. You're welcome.

  • JoeBlow123||

    "Risk getting murdered... also very horny. What to do, what to do.... Choices, choices...."

    If this was a real threat for men then there would be a lot of dead men.

  • TangoDelta||

    Looks like a teenzine put out by the folks the movie "Mean Girls" was based on. Is it relevant because they aren't yet of the age of consent?

  • Bubba Jones||

    The fundamental challenge is that women don't know what the fuck they want.

    "Grace" in hindsight was horrified by his horrible oral sex technique and felt violated by his repeated request to fuck her, but if he had just given her a back rub...

    There was a similar local case where a 17 year old took a man's sexual advances as a sign he loved her. Until he said "oh shit, we can't tell anyone"and then it became assault.

    Women don't judge you by your actions. They judge you by your perceived motivations. And women are batshit crazy so you have no control over their perceptions.

  • buybuydandavis||

    " felt violated by his repeated request to fuck her,"

    But he didn't get her consent to ask for consent first!

  • rxc||

    They are all crazy, each one of them, each in her own unique, individual way.

  • tgrondo||

    "Grace" thought she had a date with "Aizi" the TV/stand-up character, (male feminist)...when she realized it was all an act.....she was pissed! (so were her friends)

    If the real Aizi wasn't famous....no woman would give him the time of day...

  • tgrondo||

    Oops.....that's Aziz!!!!

  • Mcgoo95||

    As someone who has been continuously dumbfounded by women's non-verbal cues in this country, I would suggest they learn something from French women. At least with French women they let you know if they like you or not (non-verbally). Here, they expect you make some kind of awkward "move" without much to go on and then it will either work or you have just assaulted them. Feminism in this country has a long way to go.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Maybe this is illustrative of why men should be running everything.

  • Jimbo BTR||

    There is a really simple solution to this problem and it is NOT affirmative consent.

    The real solution is that all sexual encounters should be live-streamed to the web. Then we'll all know who consented and who didn't. No one will be able to make false claims after the fact without everyone knowing they are a god-damned liar.

  • buybuydandavis||

    "women can't really just say no—the threat of violence is always around the corner."

    The same could be said of almost any human encounter.

    We should all panic fire and shoot anyone that gets within 5 feet of us. "I felt threatened".

  • Mcgoo95||

    Works for the police..

  • IMissLiberty||

    Women have several brains, and each one can give different signals and advice. This is confusing to both the woman and those reading her. To be safe, all parties should wait until all her brains agree, before proceeding, because there's nothing worse than finding out that one of her brains was not on board. Mixed signals are a common problem, and an angry minority brain can cause a lot of problems later, whether it blames herself or the other party.
    Men have multiple brains, too (e.g., gut-brain, reptile brain, mammal brain, human brain), but they can't listen to them at the same time as well as women do. Usually one of them is in charge.

  • VinniUSMC||

    I thought we just had the big head and the little head, and only enough blood for one at a time.

    Well, and "the way to a man's heart is through his stomach".

  • Longtobefree||

    That is aiming a bit high - - - -

  • Longtobefree||

    We all know the current mantra "no means no".
    She never said no. She never meant 'no', because she stuck around naked doing sex.

    So now the new rules are "whatever I am doing, including engaging in sexual activity, means no"?
    I call bullshit.

    If she exists, this person is a walking example of why the Muslims might be right; she needs a male relative present at all times.

  • Tionico||

    There is a far easier solution to this whole made up mess. Simply keep ALL your clothes on until you are married to your spouse, and also simply don't get all physical until you ARE married.
    I know, I know, I can hear the shrieks of terror already. But the folks I know who live by this never have the sorts of questions, games, threats, fear, insecurities, self-worth issues, etc, everyone in these stories carries along with them. WHO SAYS men and women MUST behave like deer in rut when they are around each other? Men, treat married women as someone else's, and treat unmarried women honourably as you would your own sister. Women, stop flaunting your assets as though you are advertising a product for sale, Respect yourselves.This will avoid all the misunderstandings, regrets, threats of backlash when one of you decides, later, "I should not have done that and since HE did not stop me it's HIS fault." Waaa Waaaa Waaaaa Grow up. Upir existence is not dependent upon whether you "score" or "scored upon".

  • Flinch||

    Who says? That's what all the social programming magazines are written for - it is literally impossible for any woman to go to a grocery store and not be steamrolled by the relentless drumbeat of "look better/have great sex" in bold type of publications that really ought to pay the reader for damages. Row upon row of the exact same bilge. Anyone ever ask why it is women need continual reinforcement of sex in the media? They have their natural urges, so this really ought not be necessary. I would submit its a continuation of "free love" theory and one aspect of breaking culture by breaking the family that bicoastal progs in publishing are committed to. They throw in a good recipe or a story of British royalty from time to time, but that's just a distraction like those famous "articles" in Playboy that almost nobody ever read - it's disposable content to fluff up mass and charge a little extra and confuse the critics. It goes hand in glove with the Castro brothers and their assistance with drug distribution to the US.

  • josh||

    This seems like this should be posted:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRzs7v0do_Q

  • tgrondo||

    After reading the account of "Grace's" date, I couldn't help thinking...."Damn Aziz, get some style"!

    It sounds like he subscribes to the...Dog Humps Air, school of romance!

    Grace: But Aziz, I'm not finished with dinner.....

    Aziz: Close enough......Waiter....Check, please! (hump, hump)

    Aziz: Let's go to my place.....(hump, hump, hump)

    Grace: Ok.....Ah...that would be nice....

    Aziz: Great.....(hump, hump, hump)

    Grace: Aziz, you have a nice place.....

    Aziz: Kiss Me....(hump, hump,hump)

    Grace: Wait a minute....I'm not ready for that!

    Aziz: Hey, no prob....( hump) let's just chill....(hump).....wine? (hump, hump, hump)

  • Nuwanda||

    I wonder if was actually hump day.

  • XM||

    "Grace" wouldn't have been all excited to meet Ansari if he was a hard working employee at the Qwick e mart. If they were set up on a blind date and he treated her like a queen all night and then invited her to his home, she's would been all like "Oh look at the time, it's past my bedtime". Women size up men on the SPOT and measure the other's boyfriends (earnings, clothing, etc) in group settings.

    #Metoo acts as if they've inspired by a revelation, but we already know women are attracted to men with money and power. Just look at Melania and Trump, Weinstein and his ex - beauty and the beast, straight up. Some of the "victims" consented to a tryst with powerful people who are Richie Rich rich and perennially live in their own bubble. They kept things secret for year.

    Most guys aren't going to ask random women to star in nude films or masturbate to a plant before a non consenting woman. Unless you're a lawyer or look like Brad Pitt or something, most girls won't give you blowjobs on the very first date. But the feminists would pretend that this is a "man problem" in general, because it deflects blame from wealthy liberals. You can't have right wingers scoring points off transgression that occurs mostly on your side.

  • josh||

    ""Grace" wouldn't have been all excited to meet Ansari if he was a hard working employee at the Qwick e mart."

    Which is the bottom line. She wanted a famous boyfriend, and when he turned out to be a typical guy with bad technique, she decided it had to be sexual assault and found a "journalist" who thought it was her ticket upward, and they were shocked that most people didn't just fall in line and make them leaders of a movement or something like that.

  • Flinch||

    "Mind reading". Yes the phenomenon is problematic, as evidenced by my continued failure to convince my wife I can't read hers. Extrapolate that to large scale society if you dare. We treat each other well, but run into so many unnecessary arguments as a result.
    But to get closer to the story: most of us don't drink and drive, so why should anyone believe hooking up drunk is any less dangerous? If you want to party, then party. If you want to do something else, call Lyft and sleep on it, then see what tomorrow brings - thank yourself later. Everyone has a unique range that bridges sober to stupid - it might be one drink for some, five for others, and it's all greyscale with no hard line in the sand. So, it's best to make up your mind first if you are one of the party people: the time to think is usually before you drink.

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