Food Freedom

Why Raw Butter Producers Are Suing the FDA

Raw butterists are understandably salty about a prohibition on interstate commerce.

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Late last month, the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund (FTCLDF)—a nonprofit membership organization that advocates on behalf of independent farmers, artisanal food producers, and their consumers, and that counts me as a board member—sued the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to overturn the agency's wrongheaded, illegal, decades-old ban on the interstate shipment and sale of raw (unpasteurized) butter. The Raw Milk Institute, Weston A. Price Foundation, and FTCLDF helped to fund the lawsuit.

FTCLDF filed suit along with Mark McAfee, a California member who founded Organic Pastures Dairy Company, which sells raw butter in California and which would sell outside the state—if only the FDA allowed them to do so. As the lawsuit notes, FTCLDF members across the country are in the same boat as Organic Pastures; they want to sell raw butter across state lines but cannot do so legally thanks only to the FDA.

The suit, filed in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C., asks the court to compel the FDA to amend its regulations, which currently prohibit the "transportation of unpasteurized 'milk or milk products' across state lines, to explicitly exclude unpasteurized butter from the prohibition." It also seeks to force the FDA to excise butter from its definition of "milk products." As the lawsuit notes, Congress has already done this last thing. 

Congress, via the Food, Drug, & Cosmetic Act (FDCA), precluded the FDA from adopting regulations to define butter. That's due in part to the fact Congress itself codified the definition of butter nearly a century ago as a "food product… made exclusively from milk or cream, or both, with or without common salt, and with or without additional coloring matter, and containing not less than 80 per centum by weight of milk fat." 

Though that definition explicitly excludes any pasteurization requirements, the FDA ban on interstate shipment of raw butter has been in place since 1987, when a federal court ordered the FDA to prohibit the interstate shipment or sale of unpasteurized fluid milk and cream.

FTCLDF filed the lawsuit last month only after the FDA ignored a petition the group filed in 2016, asking the agency to lift its ban. In the lawsuit, the group argues the FDA's raw-butter ban is "inconsistent both with Congress' intent and with the FDA's own positions regarding the relative safety of raw butter and other manufactured products created from raw milk." And it argues "the FDA contravened both the FDCA and legal precedent" in establishing the raw-butter ban.

Why do some consumers prefer raw butter? Many consumers who choose raw butter do so because they believe it conveys health benefits that pasteurized butter does not. Others do so because they find raw butter to be "absolutely delicious." Big-wave surfing legend Laird Hamilton is among raw butter's devotees.

While food-safety zealots tend to freak out at any mention of unpasteurized dairy products—fluid, butter, or cheese—they might want to chill out a bit when it comes to butter. For starters, pathogens don't grow well in butter. A European study published earlier this year found that "the chance of growth of Listeria monocytogenes in raw milk homestead butter is small." (Unpasteurized butter is common in many countries, including those in Europe.)

The FTCLDF suit cites numerous studies—including research by the FDA itself—that supports the contention raw butter is not a good medium for pathogenic growth. It also cites the federal government's own data, which suggests "at most–one" reported case of foodborne illness has occurred in recent decades as a result of consuming unpasteurized butter. That illness, in Utah in 2007, was caused by consuming homemade (rather than commercially sold) butter.

Not surprisingly, foodborne illnesses caused by raw butter are virtually unknown. For example, the suit notes there have been no cases of foodborne illness traced to raw butter from McAfee's dairy, Organic Pastures, which has sold more than 2 million pounds of raw butter in California since 2001.

This isn't rocket science.

"This decision should have been a no-brainer for the FDA,"" says Joe Ramagli, FTCLDF's board president and a dairy farmer, in an email to me this week. "We aren't asking them to do anything inconsistent with previous rulings on the matter. Butter is not milk nor cream, the processing involved changes its composition making it less risky as a raw product and should therefore be regulated differently."

Both science and the law dictate that the FDA lift its ban on the interstate shipment and sale of raw butter. Hopefully, FTCLDF's lawsuit will help make that a reality.

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  1. The federal regulation stems from a December, 1986, U.S. District Court judgment. The court ordered the ban in the aftermath of a suit filed by the Washington-based Public Citizen’s Health Research Group that sought a prohibition of raw milk and raw milk products. Public Citizen’s Dr. Sidney Wolfe said the ruling was long overdue.

    Any idea who funded that lawsuit? Was it by any chance the FDA? Because this sounds suspiciously like the bullshit EPA “lawsuits” where when they’re not actually sure they have the authority to do something, they can skip the APA notice and comment due process requirement that would allow an affected party to challenge their authority and instead fund friendly lawsuits that “require” them to do whatever it is they wanted to do all along. And we all know Public Citizen is the Nader watermelon group pushing their commie bullshit under the guise of public health.

    1. I was wondering about that suit myself.

      1. While Public Citizen v Heckler does not appear to be an example of a friendly lawsuit, it is interesting that the lawsuit involved raw milk and raw milk regulation, the order of the court mysteriously changed raw milk into raw milk and raw milk products.

    2. Public Citizen has their own fundraising.

    3. Just want to add a data point—-myself/my family are raw milk consumers. Raw cheese too. Its great. Never an issue with raw dairy health wise. For the love of Pete, get the nanny state out of this!

  2. It seems like a no-brainer as described here. Congress defined butter and left out any pasteurization requirement. A court ruled that milk and cream have to be pasteurized to be shipped interstate. The FDA overreached and banned non-pasteurized butter shipments too.

    It’s easy to blame that court ruling, or the FDA decision. The bigger root problem is government, as usual, using its “police power” to just do whatever it damn well pleases. It should not even be regulating this stuff in the first place. It’s one thing to inspect farms and processing plants for sanitation, proper refrigeration, etc; although that is nothing that requires government — private certification companies would probably get better results because they could make their certifications legally binding and criminal for fraud. But to outright ban products is too far.

  3. Can we talk about something more interesting? Like whether Dear Leader raped a 13 year old and why Evangelicals continue to support him? This article is boring. Thanks!

    The parties were held at a New York City residence that was being used by Defendant Jeffrey Epstein. Each of the parties had other minor females and a number of guests of Mr. Epstein, including Defendant Donald Trump at four of the parties I attended. I understood that both Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein knew I was 13 years old.

    Defendant Trump had sexual contact with me at four different parties in the summer of 1994. On the fourth and fnial sexual encounter with Defendant Trump, Defendant Trump tied me to a bed, exposed himself to me, and then proceeded to forcibly rape me. During the course of this savage sexual attack, I loudly pleaded with Defendant Trump to stop but he did not. Defendant Trump responded to my pleas by violently striking me in the face with his open hand and screaming that he would do whatever he wanted,

    Immediately following this rape, Defendant Trump threatened me that, were I ever to reveal any of the details of Defendant Trump’s sexual and physical abuse of me, my family and I wold be physically harmed if not killed.

    1. I’m sorry that happened to you. No wonder you’re so weirdly fixated on Trump. Have you considered therapy?

      1. Hot!

        The filing also included a statement from “Tiffany Doe” (i.e., the woman referenced in plaintiff’s statement above who brought her to the parties) attesting that:

        I personally witnessed four sexual encounters that the Plaintiff was forced to have with Mr. Trump during this period, including the fourth of these encounters where Mr. Trump forcibly raped her despite her pleas to stop.

        I personally witnessed the one occasion where Mr. Trump forced the Plaintiff and a 12-year-old female named Maria [to] perform oral sex on Mr. Trump and witnessed his physical abuse of both minors when they finished the act.

        It was my job to personally witness and supervise encounters between the underage girls that Mr. Epstein hired and his guests.

        1. Are Christians into this shit? Man, i’m Glad I stopped believing in God around the age of 12– which, come to think of it, is about the age at which Evangelicals start to attempt to have sex with you. Whew! Dodged a bullet.

        2. It was her job? Doesn’t that make her a criminal? Why would anyone believe criminal?

          1. It definitely makes Dear Leader a criminal— that’s for sure. People are spending their lives in prison for less than what he did. But because he has money and lies with impunity he’s POTUS. YAY! Vhat a country!

            1. Why would to take the word of someone who admits to participating in the rape of children?

              1. And take the word of Dear Leader instead? Rube, I have corrective farm near Pyongyang I sell you real cheap. You interested. Ok, you pay me bitcoin and I give you two yaks and tractor. You sound like type maybe make good deal with.

                1. The person making the accusation is responsible for proving it. You don’t believe in innocent until proven guilty? It’s weird that you don’t believe Trump because he’s a rapist but you believe someone who has admitted abetting rape.

                  1. It’s pretty funny how you are using sophistry to excuse the numerous sexual assaults committed by Dear Leader. You are pretty dirty and disgusting. Check yourself, ok?

                    1. LeaveTrumpAloneLibertarian
                      November.9.2019 at 5:20 pm
                      “It’s pretty funny how you are using sophistry to excuse the numerous sexual assaults committed by Dear Leader. ”

                      Pretty funny a low-life scumbag like you lying about other people’s actions.]
                      Fuck off and die, liar.

                    2. Alleged sexual assaults. Why do you hate American jurisprudence?

                    3. Hey look, Trumpian intentionally conflates the standards by which you vote for a POTUS with that with which you send somebody to jail as a rapist, incident #565,432,890. I’ll inform Bill Clinton, Trumpian. He’ll be glad to hear it. You’re disgusting, did you know that?

          2. Criminals should not be believed at any cost. You are right

    2. LeaveTrumpAloneLibertarian
      November.9.2019 at 10:50 am
      “Can we talk about something more interesting? Like whether Dear Leader raped a 13 year old and why Evangelicals continue to support him? …”

      We can certainly laugh at your idiocy and lies, scumbag.

  4. In Ukraine, people milk their cows in the morning, put the milk in used water bottles and sit out along sidewalks and sell it. They also have butter and smetana (a mild sour cream) as well as a farmer type cheese. I’m sure that was yesterday’s milk that didn’t sell. Women like this at times literally line the sidewalks in various parts of every city and town.

    They don’t use refrigeration and I don’t think they sterilize anything. No one seems to get sick eating all this raw, warm, unsterilized diary including Americans eating it for the first time. No gets sick eating raw, unrefrigerated pork fat either.

    1. You forgot to add that fresh milk is delicious and contains significant amounts of beneficial bacteria and antibodies (human milk does too, and I understand that’s a thing for some people, bu I suspect there’s a scalability problem there, especially in the MeToo era…)

      1. And raw milk is so much more delicious. It’s like real food instead of just white water.

        Scalability is the problem of the big corporations not the product itself. They buy milk from one part of the country, ship to another, process it and send it to another part of the country and the consumer gets it a week or two later.

        That’s why they needed these laws- to protect their inferior product that unless handled expertly would make people sick or kill them. As long as they applied the problem to the milk and not their business model, then they could convince people (especially legislators) that the local guy selling raw milk was a danger, they wouldn’t get a corner on the market. Now the local guy has to sell to big milk corporations at a low price and has to have a factory farm to make money. I paid $8 a gallon for raw milk in Texas. No corporation is going to pay that.

    2. Well, it helps that herdsmen are better-educated and have more tools to deal with brucellosis(sp?) and tuberculosis these days. Doctors once didn’t know better than to wash their hands between patients, it frequently didn’t end well, and yet we don’t boil the hands of every doctor these days to compensate.

      Americans seem to think healthy milk magically turns to poison after a few hours on the counter, or beyond the best-sell-by date. It’s taken real effort to teach my children that there’s sweet milk – good for drinking and fresh uses – and then there’s sour milk – good for cooking – and that sour milk hasn’t gone “bad”. It’s just better for pancakes and biscuits than for pouring over breakfast cereal, but there’s nothing wrong with it. What can I say. Marketing often works better than cognition.

  5. “It also cites the federal government’s own data, which suggests “at most–one” reported case of foodborne illness has occurred in recent decades as a result of consuming unpasteurized butter. That illness, in Utah in 2007, was caused by consuming homemade (rather than commercially sold) butter.”

    So what is more important is for the FDA to instigate a ban on home-made butter (and pretty much all home-made food).

    1. There can be no exceptions. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

  6. Breaking — The Wall Street Journal reports that Rudy Giuliani’s associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, who have since been charged with violating US election law, told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s predecessor Petro Poroshenko that he could get a state visit to Washington in exchange for the investigations Trump later pushed on Zelensky.

    1. #TrumpUkraine is the tipping point. The walls are closing in. It’s the beginning of the end.

      Of course Democrats should have immediately impeached once Mueller proved that Russians are controlling our government.

      #Impeach
      #Resist

      1. Jesus Christ Trumpian, how many indictments are there out there for Republicans in government?

        SAN DIEGO — A federal judge Monday set a Sept. 10, 2019, trial date for recently re-elected Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Alpine, and his wife, who were indicted in August on charges they spent more than $250,000 in campaign funds on personal expenses.

        Emphasis mine, bot. Ahahahaha… Jesus Christ, you can literally get rubes to vote for a criminal if said criminal promises to build da wall.

        1. Exactly. If Hillary had supported the wall she would have won.

          1. No, Democrats are moving in my direction, GOPer. They’ve found out that no matter how much they pander to racists and idiots those racists and idiots aren’t going to vote for them. Obama was terrible on immigration and the fact that Democrats are now willing to call him out on his pandering bullshit is a vote in their favor. The only people we should be deporting are these fascist assholes. Why don’t they move to Russia so they can be ruled by a real fascist. It’s what they want so we should give it to them. Nazis out!

            1. “No, Democrats are moving in my direction, GOPer.”

              So they’re all going to skip on their mortgages, scumbag?

              1. I just want to be more like Dear Leader, but when it comes to skipping out on his obligations it’s him, 4 and me, 0.25. {Sad face} Maybe I can be more like him though and go out and rape a 13 yo and then get elected President of the greatest country. Let’s hope. That sounds like fun.

                1. LeaveTrumpAloneLibertarian
                  November.9.2019 at 2:27 pm
                  ‘I just want to be more like Dear Leader, but when it comes to skipping out on his obligations it’s him, 4 and me, 0.25. {Sad face}”

                  Right.
                  Running a business and finding it bankrupt is *exactly* the same as skipping out on a mortgage.’
                  Fuck off and die, scumbag.

                  1. Should we go through the list of times that Dear Leader shafted someone who worked for him? It’s pretty long.

                    1. “Should we go through the list of times that Dear Leader shafted someone who worked for him? It’s pretty long.”

                      Go ahead, scumbag, I’m sure you have many, many lies.

                    2. Hey! Scumbag! Where’s that ‘long list’?
                      Called on your lies once again, low-life scumbag?
                      Get used to being called on your bullshit; you’re a fucking lefty ignoramus and it’s going to be that way until you die.
                      BTW, the world will be a better, more honest and more intelligent place if that’s soon.

            2. What are you talking about? Hillary won the popular vote.

              1. Which one? There were 50 of them.

                1. Actually there were 0 because no one votes for the President except the electors.

      2. Agreed. Everyone involved in the creation of the foreign sourced Steele dossier full of Russian disinfo should be immediately impeached.

    2. Why wouldn’t the head of the Executive want to investigate possible corruption by a sitting VP? That’s his job.

      1. Gee, it’s almost as if he should have gone to the FBI. It’s funny, isn’t it, that Trump can’t seem to name any other instance of corruption in Ukraine— notoriously corrupt since the fall of the Evil Soviet Union— other than one involving a Biden? Hmmm.

        1. LeaveTrumpAloneLibertarian
          November.9.2019 at 1:54 pm
          “Gee, it’s almost as if he should have gone to the FBI. ”

          Gee, it’s almost like you have a raging TDS affliction.
          Fuck off and die, scumbag.

        2. Well he only has jurisdiction over Americans.

          1. Hunter Biden isn’t an American?

            1. He is which is why Trump wants to investigate him like I said.

              1. For what? Diddling a child like he did?

                1. LeaveTrumpAloneLibertarian
                  November.9.2019 at 4:13 pm
                  “For what? Diddling a child like he did?”

                  Were you busted for screwing those sheep?

  7. If FDA’s not following the statute, get an injunction.

    1. Thanks to Auer and Chevron, the FDA *is* following the statute. Or at least their interpretation of the intent of the statute, which is the same thing. If they pass a regulation saying you can’t sell raw pork out of the trunk of your car and then later decide the intent of the rule is to stop people from selling any kind of meat out of any unapproved container, then they can just decide that, for the purposes of interpreting the rule, “raw” includes cooked, cured, pickled, and salted, “pork” included beef, lamb, poultry and fish, and “the trunk of your car” includes bicycle baskets, truck beds, suitcases and wheelbarrows.

      And people will be fine with that, because, duh, of course you shouldn’t be buying fresh deer haunches from some random pushcart guy and never mind that that’s not what the law says – it’s what the law should say and that’s close enough.

      1. This. People appear to need to be told that if the answer to the rules is “Oh, it’s easy, just do this,” the people paid to herd rules will feel quite differently.

  8. Guys,

    Let’s not fight. We’re more alike than different. I, too, thought about voting for Dear Leader {for fun}, but couldn’t get past the idea that he is a probable child rapist. How did Evangelicals like you that love children so much get beyond what i’s sure you’ll recognize as a disgusting act and nevertheless cast a vote for a child rapist? I voted for the most normal person running who— obviously— was Jill Stein. I’m a normal person so I didn’t vote for a plutocratic kiddie diddler or a war criminal. Nono.

      1. If voting changed anything they’d make it illegal, right?

        1. Exactly. You participated in a fraud. Grifter!

          1. Listen, if what you are saying is that we should confiscate the property of these billionaire leaches without some bought-and-paid for election I hear you.

            1. LeaveTrumpAloneLibertarian
              November.9.2019 at 3:14 pm
              “Listen, if what you are saying is that we should confiscate the property of these billionaire leaches without some bought-and-paid for election I hear you.”

              Naah.
              He’s saying you’re a scumbag who should fuck off and die someplace where we can’t smell you.

          2. Ok, i’m an imperfect human being for participating in this whole fraud, I know. But how much credit do I get for not voting for a child rapist like Dear Leader?

            1. LeaveTrumpAloneLibertarian
              November.9.2019 at 4:10 pm
              “Ok, i’m an imperfect human being for participating in this whole fraud, I know.”
              No, you’re a low-life scumbag.

              “But how much credit do I get for not voting for a child rapist like Dear Leader?”
              And a liar besides.
              Fuck off and die.

    1. LeaveTrumpAloneLibertarian
      November.9.2019 at 2:40 pm
      “Guys,
      Let’s not fight. We’re more alike than different. I, too, thought about voting for Dear Leader {for fun}, but couldn’t get past the idea that he is a probable child rapist….”

      So you invented a lie and now we’re supposed to find you slightly better than what’s at the bottom of a septic tank?
      Fuck off and die.

      1. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

        1. LeaveTrumpAloneLibertarian
          November.9.2019 at 9:22 pm
          “If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting”

          Use some bolding with your caps when you make stoooopid statements, low-life, lying scumbag.
          Oh, and fuck off and die some place where we can’t smell you.

  9. Ironic that one of the plaintiffs is from CA, which won’t allow milk to be imported across its borders.
    Guess it depend on whose ox is being gored.

    1. I think that’s against federal law.

  10. Plaintiff was enticed by promises of money and a modeling career to attend a series of parties, with other similarly situated minor females, held at a New York City residence that was being used by Defendant Jeffrey Epstein. At least four of the parties were attended by Defendant Trump. Exhs. A and B. On information and belief, by this time in 1994, Defendant

    4 Trump had known Defendant Epstein for seven years (
    New York,
    10/28/02), and knew that Plaintiff was then just 13 years old. Exhs. A and B.10.

    Defendant Trump initiated sexual contact with Plaintiff at four different parties. On the fourth and final sexual encounter with Defendant Trump, Defendant Trump tied Plaintiff to a bed, exposed himself to Plaintiff, and then proceeded to forcibly rape Plaintiff. During the course of this savage sexual attack, Plaintiff loudly pleaded with Defendant Trump to stop but with no effect. Defendant Trump responded to
    Plaintiff’s
    pleas by violently striking Plaintiff in the face with his open hand and screaming that he would do whatever he wanted. Exhs. A and B. 11.

    Immediately following this rape, Defendant Trump threatened Plaintiff that, were she ever to reveal any of the details of the sexual and physical abuse of her by Defendant Trump, Plaintiff and her family would be physically harmed if not killed. Exhs. A and B. 12.

    Defendant Epstein had sexual contact with Plaintiff at two of the parties. The second sexual encounter with Defendant Epstein took place after Plaintiff had been raped by Defendant Trump. Defendant Epstein forced himself upon Plaintiff and proceeded to rape her anally and vaginally despite her loud pleas to stop. Defendant Epstein then attempted to strike Plaintiff about the head with his closed fists while he angrily screamed at Plaintiff that he, Defendant Epstein, rather than Defendant Trump, should have been the one who took
    Plaintiff’s
    virginity, before Plaintiff finally managed to break away from Defendant Epstein. Exhs. A and B. 13.

  11. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

    Jessica Leeds alleged that Trump groped her on an airplane in the late-1970s, which the president has repeatedly denied.

    Leeds went public in a New York Times article Oct. 12, 2016 – discussing an alleged decades-old interaction with Trump — four days after the release of a 2005 “Access Hollywood” recording in which he described women in vulgar terms. The Times article appeared three days after the second presidential debate, during which Trump denied ever kissing or groping women without consent.

    Leeds has since reiterated her accusations to ABC News and has repeated it publicly, including at a news conference in December 2017 alongside two other accusers, calling on Congress to investigate the allegations against Trump.

  12. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

    Kristin Anderson told The Washington Post that Trump put his hand up her skirt to her underwear in the early 1990s.

    After the story’s publication, ABC News spoke to a friend of Anderson, Brad Trent, who said he heard the account from Anderson the same year of the alleged incident. Trent told ABC News that Anderson had told him she was sitting next to Trump at the old China Club bar in New York where he slid his hand up her thigh and “grabbed her p—-.”

  13. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

    Jill Harth said she had dinner with Trump and her then-boyfriend, George Houraney, in 1992 when Trump allegedly tried to put his hands between her legs. She alleged he also tried to kiss her during a tour of his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida a month later when she and Houraney were there to celebrate solidifying a business contract.

    Harth filed a lawsuit in 1997 alleging that Trump groped her and sexually harassed her, but she withdrew the suit, she says, as a condition of settling a separate financial dispute with him.

  14. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

    Cathy Heller first spoke to The Guardian newspaper about an alleged incident she said happened at a Mother’s Day brunch at Mar-a-Lago. She repeated her claims to ABC News and said she believes it happened in 1997.

    She put her hand out to say hello to Trump and he grabbed her unexpectedly and started to kiss her on the lips, Heller told ABC News. She said she pulled away and he said, “Oh, come on.” She said no but he grabbed her again and got near her lips, Heller told ABC News. She said this happened in front of her family.

  15. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

    Temple Taggart was the 21-year-old Miss Utah when she participated in the Miss USA contest in 1997. She said Trump, who owned the pageant at the time, kissed her “directly on the lips.”

    She first shared her story with The New York Times in May 2016, and Taggart, who now uses her married name of McDowell, reiterated her claims to ABC News through her lawyer, Gloria Allred. Trump denied the allegations to the Times, saying he is reluctant to kiss strangers on the lips.

  16. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

    Karena Virginia, a New York-area yoga instructor, said Trump approached her in 1998 outside the U.S. Open tennis tournament in New York while she was awaiting a car service, made unseemly comments about her appearance, grabbed her arm and groped her breast.

    “He then walked up to me and reached his right arm and grabbed my right arm,” she said at a news conference in October 2016. “Then his hand touched the right inside of my breast.”

    Virginia, who was 27 at the time of the alleged incident, said she flinched, and Trump said, “Don’t you know who I am?”

  17. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

    Bridget Sullivan, who was crowned Miss New Hampshire 2000, spoke publicly during the presidential campaign about how Trump came into the Miss Universe changing room while the contestants were naked.

    “The time that he walked through the dressing rooms was really shocking. We were all naked,” she told Buzzfeed in May 2016.

    CNN released recordings of a 2005 interview that Trump gave to radio host Howard Stern in which he talked about going backstage at pageants when the contestants were naked.

    No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it. … ‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that,” Trump said in the recording.

    {Emphasis mine}

    1. So Gal Godot was a contestant in some of those beauty contests. I recall in an interview she said something like if anything inappropriate had happened with her he would have been flat on his back and immobile before he knew it. She was a combat instructor in IDF. I tend to believe her.

  18. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

    Former Miss Arizona Tasha Dixon says Trump walked into a dress rehearsal for a pageant in 2001 while the contestants were “half-naked’ and the women were told to “fawn all over him,” according to an interview Dixon gave to CBS Los Angeles station KCAL-TV in October of 2016.

    Dixon, who says she was 18 at the time, said Trump came “strolling right in” during a dress rehearsal for the Miss USA pageant in 2001. She said it was the contestants’ introduction to Trump and that the women were naked or half-naked, in a “very physically vulnerable position.”

    Dixon said she decided to speak out after hearing an old audio recording of Trump’s talking to Howard Stern about going backstage at pageants while contestants were naked or getting dressed.

  19. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

    Mindy McGillivray told The Palm Beach Post in October 2016 that Trump grabbed her rear end while she was working as a photographer’s assistant at a 2003 event at Mar-a-Lago.

    The photographer, Ken Davidoff, told the paper he vividly remembers McGillivray immediately pulling him aside to say that, “Donald just grabbed my a–.”

  20. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

    Rachel Crooks, a secretary who worked in Trump’s building, told The New York Times that when she first met Trump in 2005, he shook her hand, then kissed her on the cheeks and then on the lips, while outside an elevator at Trump Tower in New York City. Crooks says she immediately told her sister in Ohio about the encounter with Trump.

    Shortly after The New York Times story was published in October 2016, ABC News reached Crooks’ sister Brianne Webb, who, as reported in the Times article, told ABC News that she was the first person her sister called after the alleged incident. Crooks was very upset, Webb said, and worked up about just meeting Trump and having him allegedly kiss her directly on the mouth. Webb also said Crooks never went to the authorities.

  21. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting


    Adult film star Jessica Drake said Trump kissed her and two other women without their consent 10 years ago.

    During an Oct. 22, 2016, news conference alongside her attorney Gloria Allred, the accuser provided a picture of her with Trump.

    The Trump campaign called her allegations “totally false and ridiculous” and directly addressed the picture in a statement, saying “The picture is one of thousands taken out of respect for people asking to have their picture taken with Mr. Trump.”

    Drake said she met Trump at a 2006 golf tournament in Lake Tahoe and walked the course with him during the competition. She then was invited up to his hotel suite and brought two other women with her because “I didn’t feel right going alone,” Drake said during the news conference.

    “When we entered the room, he grabbed each of us tightly in a hug and kissed each one of us without asking permission,” Drake said.

    She went on to say that after she and the other women left, she received a call from Trump asking her to come back and have dinner with him.

    “Donald then asked me ‘What do you want? How much?'” Drake said.

    Uggg! Yuck!

  22. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

    During the presidential campaign, Zervos, who was a competitor on the fifth season of “The Apprentice,” came forward to allege that Trump abused his role as a potential employer, kissing her twice during a meeting at Trump Tower in New York, and later groping and kissing her in a California hotel room. Zervos said she did not report the alleged incidents to the authorities at the time.

    “He grabbed my shoulder and began kissing me again aggressively and placed his hand on my breast,” Zervos said at an October 2016 news conference.

    Zervos has since filed a lawsuit against Trump for alleged defamation after he called her and the other women accusing him liars. The suit was filed in state court in New York, three days before Trump’s inauguration.

    In the lawsuit, Zervos’ attorney wrote that while Trump said Zervos was lying, “it was Donald Trump who was lying when he falsely denied his predatory misconduct with Summer Zervos, and derided her for perpetrating a ‘hoax’ and making up a ‘phony’ story to get attention.”

    In March 2019, an appellate court in New York rejected Trump’s legal team’s argument that a sitting president cannot be sued .

    His attorney Marc Kasowitz responded with a statement saying that Trump would be appealing to the state’s highest court.

    Yeah, and probably after that to the Supreme Court. I wonder how that’ll go.

  23. If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

    In a New York magazine article posted June 21, 2019, advice columnist E. Jean Carroll accused Trump of sexually assaulting her in a Bergdorf Goodman dressing room 23 years ago. The article features an excerpt from Carroll’s forthcoming book “What Do We Need Men For” which is set to be released July 2.

    In response to Carroll’s allegations, Trump issued a statement hours after the article posted, vehemently denying her claims, and said that he never even met Carroll. “She is trying to sell a new book—that should indicate her motivation. It should be sold in the fiction section. Shame on those who make up false stories of assault to try to get publicity for themselves, or sell a book, or carry out a political agenda.”

    New York Magazine, in the online article, included a photo provided by Carroll which shows Carroll, Donald Trump and his then-wife Ivana, and Carroll’s then husband, television news anchor John Johnson, attending an NBC party around 1987.

    ABC News has obtained an advance copy of the book, in which Carroll, now 75, detailed the alleged assault in four pages, writing she ran into Trump at the revolving door entrance of the high end department store’s entrance sometime during the fall of 1995 or spring of 1996. She claims he said to her “Hey, you’re that Advice Lady” and then asked her advice on buying a present for “a girl.” She writes the two ended up in the lingerie department where Carroll claims he asked her to try on a see-through bodysuit. Inside the dressing room, Carroll alleges that Trump lunged at her, pushed her against the wall, placed his mouth on her lips, and reached under her coatdress and pulled down her tights. In Carroll’s own words, she alleges: “The next moment, still wearing correct business attire, shirt, tie, suit jacket, overcoat, he opens the overcoat, unzips his pants, and, forcing his fingers around my private area, then thrusts his penis halfway- or completely, I’m not certain- inside me. It turns into a colossal struggle.”

    Carroll said she never reported the incident to the police, but that she confided in two friends, contemporaneously.

    ABC News reached both of Carroll’s friends who asked that their names not be used but corroborated that what she told them at the time of the alleged incident is what she described in her book.

    1. Roughly 1/2 of the posts here so far are yours!

      I agree with you that Trump is a scumbucket… And so are the voters who voted for him in the PRIMARIES! Hillary had troubles of her own… I can VERY easily forgive Trump voters for voting for him instead of Hillary in the general elections… But NOT the primaries! Trump’s total lack of character was already apparent at that time!

      For the “TLDR” readers out there, who might not have seen my MINI sarcastic tirade yet… Here is a SHORTER (much shorter than your 30-something posts) on WHY Trump is BAD news… And so, too, are LOTS of people who voted for him for the WRONG reasons, especially in the primaries!

      Orange Man bad?!? He BAD, all right! He SOOO BAD, He be GOOD! He be GREAT! He Make America Great Again!

      We KNOW He can Make America Great Again, because, as a bad-ass businessman, He Made Himself and His Family Great Again! He Pussy Grabber in Chief!

      See The Atlantic article by using the below search-string in quotes:
      “The Many Scandals of Donald Trump: A Cheat Sheet”

      He pussy-grab His creditors in 7 bankruptcies, His illegal sub-human workers ripped off of pay on His building projects, and His “students” in His fake Get-Rich-like-Me realty schools, and so on. So, He has a GREAT record of ripping others off! So SURELY He can rip off other nations, other ethnic groups, etc., in trade wars and border wars, for the benefit of ALL of us!!!

      All Hail to THE Pussy Grabber in Chief!!!

      Most of all, HAIL the Chief, for having revoked karma! What comes around, will no longer go around!!! The Donald has figured out that all of the un-Americans are SOOO stupid, that we can pussy-grab them all day, every day, and they will NEVER think of pussy-grabbing us right back!

      Orange Man Bad-Ass Pussy-Grabber all right!

      1. I know… i’m On a roll. Can’t we get one Republican who isn’t a rapey and slimy piece of crap like Trump or a war criminal like Bush? No one comes to mind. Justin Amash maybe, but he left.

        1. Yea verily… Rand Paul has been a let-down as well… Blind party loyalty is a HUGE problem! Some states planning to skip having a Republican primary (going straight to nominating Der TrumpfenFuhrer) is leaving me feeling pretty hopeless as well…

    2. If you repeat lies, you’re a low-life scumbag.

      1. THESE BITCHES ARE ALL LYING!!! How Clintonian— and disgusting.

        1. LeaveTrumpAloneLibertarian
          November.9.2019 at 6:59 pm
          “THESE BITCHES ARE ALL LYING!!! How Clintonian— and disgusting.”

          Gee, called on your bullshit and we get caps. Trying to out-Hihn Hihn, you low-life lying scumbag?

  24. Reason would be fine with selling franken-margarine as “raw butter” so long as there was an abstract picture of corn or some commodity oil seed on the packaging. They could call it something like “just raw butter”, “impossible raw butter” or “beyond raw butter”.

  25. I think that’s against federal law.

  26. Margarine was banned by several states back in the Tiddy Roosevelt-Howard Taft administration. Honey producers wanted to ban glucose and beet growers wanted men with guns to shut down saccharin plants. The 1906 Pure Food law became enforceable in 1907 and fanatics now had the weapon to also prohibit beer and The Demon Rum. A crackdown on ice houses ensued and all of a sudden the Panic of 1907 resulted after money fled banks & brokerages to escape fines and confiscation.

  27. On this topic, does anyone here know the definition or metrics of a “round of butter”?

  28. All these rules to protect me yet I go to my local farm stand and buy goods, I grow some in my back yard as well. No FDA inspections. Yet here I am in good health. What exactly does the FDA do?

  29. I understand that death from listeria is extremely painful for the young or elderly people it is most likely to effect. I suppose that dying for commercial reasons is the ultimate form of freedom.

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