Oregon Standoff

Blood, Delusions, and Corruption in the American West

"This country is now full of men and women with long-term personal experience of contemporary guerrilla insurrection."

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Shadowlands: Fear and Freedom at the Oregon Standoff, by Anthony McCann, Bloomsbury, 448 pages, $30

On January 2, 2016, Ammon Bundy and a few dozen armed militiamen seized control of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Harney County, Oregon. Their aim, they said, was to protest the imprisonment of Steven and Dwight Hammond, two ranchers convicted of committing arson on public property. More broadly, they had a host of complaints about the federal government's ownership and management of Western lands.

But Anthony McCann sees a kaleidoscope of deeper meanings in the 2016 standoff—crises of work, race, manhood, and history swirling together in a "whacked out American story." McCann, a professional poet, admits that his natural allegiances going in to the story were more with the liberal-progressive side, although he doesn't seem the type even before diving into the story to get quite as radical as those who crudely mocked the Malheur militants (by, for example, mailing them plastic penises) or wished them grievous harm. In Shadowlands, his nuanced account of the occupation and its aftermath, he treats the occupiers and the loose "patriot" movement surrounding them mostly fairly. Meanwhile, the feds' behavior frequently appalls him.

An occupier offers one of the story's blunter morals when he tells McCann, "The government might kill you if you tried to form a commune." McCann concedes the point. The "experience at Malheur," he writes, "seemed to bear this out."

The government's case against the Hammonds revolved around two occasions when the ranchers set fires on public lands. The Hammonds insist that they set the first fire to control invasive plants and the second to keep a wildfire from reaching their property. The government insisted the first fire was actually meant to hide evidence of illegal deer hunting and that the Hammonds had a record of threatening federal agents. Many Westerners believed the Hammonds, and a judge deliberately gave them a shorter sentence than the legal mandatory minimum. They were already out of jail when an appeals court overturned that decision, ordering them back into custody to serve additional time.

The Hammonds would eventually receive a presidential pardon from Trump (something he has only done 10 times, nearly always for people seen as key parts of his political and ideological coalitions). But that didn't happen until July 2018. As the ranchers returned to their cells in late 2015, many militia types gathered in the nearby town of Burns, Oregon, to protest the revised sentence. They were angry, but most of them did not support Ammon Bundy's plan—divinely inspired, he insisted—to occupy the Malheur headquarters and turn it, possibly for many years, into a mutual-aid commune for ranchers and for anyone else who wanted to help recreate true American freedom via a thinly conceived effort to "unwind" all federal land ownership.

Ammon, a Nevada native, had never been to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge before. He was a son of Cliven Bundy, the 21st century's leading crusty symbol of sagebrush rebellion. The Bundys had been at the center of an earlier land-use drama stemming from their refusal to pay federal grazing fees; it came to a head in 2014, when the family fought the government's attempts to take their cattle as a penalty. When a YouTube video showed a Bureau of Land Management agent tackling Ammon's aunt and then tasing Ammon when he tried to intervene, the footage inspired sympathizers across the nation to assemble at the Bundys' Nevada ranch. Many of those new arrivals were armed. The government then appeared to give up its plan to take the Bundy's cattle.

In fact, the feds were merely biding their time: In 2016 they arrested the Bundys and some of their allies. But before then, the Bundyites were ecstatic with the feeling of having made tyrants blink. Chasing the dragon of that feeling led many of their fans to follow Ammon to Malheur—though many of the people who ended up there had personal motives with little if any connection to the Bundys. Some, McCann reports, had a vague sense of liberties curtailed. Others were conspiracy theorists. A few, he argues, just seemed to be suffering from a crisis of the modern American man unmoored from meaningful work or community.

The occupiers included old hippies, Mormons, disillusioned veterans, libertarians protesting police brutality, Ren Faire diehards, a man who believed literal angels had led him to the refuge, and only one practicing rancher. (Even Ammon before this Malheur adventure had relocated to Idaho and was running a truck maintenance business.) They also included several federal provocateurs and informers, including the militant who seemed most obsessed with weapons training.

McCann provides plenty of perspectives from locals who thought their uninvited visitors were an aggravating and sometimes scary nuisance. But with an impressive act of imaginative sympathy, McCann also sees and describes an admirable humanity in the rebels, even as he finds many of their ideas perplexing, absurd, or dangerous.

Such ideas include the notion, derived from the radical right-wing group Posse Comitatus, that the sheriff is the sole legitimate vector of political authority over the people; an interpretation of the "enclave clause" of the Constitution in which it bars most federal land ownership; jury nullification (a power McCann concludes is real and important, yet also best kept mostly mum about); and Ammon's brother's belief in the dizzyingly baroque legal doctrines of the "sovereign citizens," who deny that the federal government has any authority over actual living human beings and who file a lot of nonsensical paperwork to that effect.

The moment in the Malheur story that bears the most emotional weight is the murder by Oregon state troopers of LaVoy Finicum, but it gets strangely short shrift in a book that can get very emotional at times about distant buttes and surging mountain weather. Police blocked a road that Finicum and other occupiers were driving on to meet a sympathetic sheriff in a neighboring county. He pulled over abruptly at the side of the road and got out of the truck, at which point FBI agents started shooting; state troopers then killed him as he stumbled about in the snow.

McCann doesn't discuss the ensuing indictment of an FBI agent for lying about firing on Finicum. McCann does note that at times the public rhetoric of the occupiers could make them feel like a death cult. It is, he writes, "disorienting to recognize how, in writing this book, I've become entirely used to watching people publicly declare their readiness, even eagerness, to die."

McCann recounts at length the Northern Paiute Indians' history in the Great Basin containing the Malheur refuge, including the 1880s trail of tears they followed as they were driven from their ancestral lands. The occupiers awkwardly attempted to pal up to the Paiute, but the tribe would have none of it. The tribal council's sergeant-at-arms, Jarvis Kennedy, tells McCann that although some supporters of the occupation tried to bond with him over their support for the Standing Rock pipeline protests happening during the first trial of Malheur occupiers, he hoped to "see 'em hang." The occupiers may have felt a kinship with the displaced Indians, but for Kennedy they were simply re-enacting the tribe's displacement as farce.

In the end, no occupier was hung, literally or figuratively. Some pleaded guilty before trial, but in the first group trial, not a single conviction was won.

The government wanted to hit the seven occupiers on trial with a felony charge for standing around armed in a federal building. So instead of the easier-to-prove trespassing, the defendants faced the trickier charge of conspiracy to intimidate federal employees. This required delving into the intent of the men and woman on trial. McCann notes that he "had no desire to see federal power grow more comfortable with deciding what protest activity was unlawful conspiracy to intimidate." It didn't help the government that not a single named federal agent claimed to have been intimidated.

McCann thinks the occupiers' vision of devolved control over federally owned land would lead to a corporate hellscape in which no American would ever set foot in nature again. But for all of McCann's disagreements with the occupiers' ideas, he was repelled by the police corruption exposed in the later trial of the Bundyites for their original 2014 stand in Nevada. As he writes, the government "willfully withheld substantial evidence that the Bundys had been, at least partly, telling the truth" about federal agents' "surveillance, snipers, and provocations." The government also tried to hide four separate assessments, "none of which characterized the Bundys as a threat." (Environmentalist fears about Bundy cattle harming desert tortoises also turned out to be undocumented.) A judge threw the case out in January 2018, citing "flagrant prosecutorial misconduct."

The public conversation around the Malheur occupation made McCann feel that, "beyond a common allegiance to the Dollar and the Pentagon, 'We' were little more than a bunch of people who hated each other." It's possible this book could help some Americans see past that hate and begin to understand one another. But another of McCann's comments casts a darker shadow: Noting that not just the Malheur occupation but America at large is rife with veterans of our forever war in the Middle East, he observes that "this country is now full of men and women with long-term personal experience of contemporary guerrilla insurrection."

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  1. Ren Fair diehards?

    WTF?

    1. Somebody’s unfamiliar with Rule 34.

    2. “Ren Fair diehards? WTF?”

      Yeah, that one through me for a loop at first reading. On the other hand, I have met a handful of folks at Ren Faires, over the years, who, at least in spirit, really would like to recreate the Middle Ages, or, more accurately, their “interpretation” of the Middle Ages.

      1. Middle Ages with electricity, running water, central heat, internet, cars, etc.

        1. Well, of course. And of course, they actually bathe more than twice a year, too. But they certainly are more fun than most “county fairs.” I mean, anytime one can get 18 different flavors of mead, it can’t be all bad.

          My main beef is the damned “Norsemen” with the horned helmets. Silliness.

        2. electricity, running water, central heat, internet, cars, etc.

          And where they’re on top of the social order.

    3. The tribal council’s sergeant-at-arms, Jarvis Kennedy… hoped to “see ’em hang.”

      Tolerant and inclusive alert!

  2. Sounds like this might be an interesting book, as long as you look at it as a narrative rather than straight factual reporting. But then, reporters tend to miss the forest for the trees and good writers have a way of getting to the truth of things. Plus, if all you know about the event is what you read in the papers, Gell-Mann is a thing. (I am somewhat concerned about that “surging mountain weather”, though – there’s only so much purple prose one can take.)

    1. It was a dark and stormy night. His deep, dark skylark-blue eyes drank her salacious curves in hungrily, but his heart was freshly-driven-snow-pure and geographic-north true, and his jaw was manly and square.

      1. And you’re Whihn and should fuck off then die.

        1. It was a dark, endless night of the Tulpa. The black hole inside Tulpa’s brain lusted hungrily at all energy and matter in the entire Universe. Too bad for Tulpa’s black hole, the Hawking radiation slowly, tortuously stole back into the outside Universe, that which Tulpa mistakenly thought that Tulpa has forever conquered. Over several billion times the current life of the Universe, the black hole known as Tulpa is destined to eventually “poof” off into nothingness, in a final burst of Hawking radiation. Intelligent beings everywhere will celebrate!

          1. “SQRLSY One
            August.28.2019 at 5:13 pm
            And the “legitimate public purpose” is???

            I know how to treat others the way that I would like to be treated. It’s that simple. “Others” includes those that evil people like to call illegal sub-humans, and so forth”

            I guess that means,you want people to treat you like an animal, esel!!!

            Ahahahahaj you’re a sad fucking hypocrite AND you USED THE WRONG WORD ahahahahahahajaja dein deutsch ist zum kotzen ESEL AHAHAHAHAHAHAJA

            1. I do consistently treat others the way that I’d like to be treated, if I were in their shoes, arrogant asshole. If I always acted like an arrogant asshole, I dearly wish that someone would take the trouble to point that out to me.

              So Tulpa… You would gather more happiness if you stopped acting like an arrogant asshole. Try it some time!

              1. “I do consistently treat others the way that I’d like to be treated, if I were in their shoes, arrogant asshole”

                So you want me to call you an arrogant asshole, you arrogant asshole?

                Ok, you’re an arrogant hypocritical, lying asshole. Remember, you asked for it.

                1. Oh and also, you’re evil and satan.

      2. “Fressen”

        And you used the wrong word ahhahahaahahahahahahaha retard ahahahahahahah god you’re fucking stupid ahahahahahaha

        1. People essen. Animals like Tulpa fressen, instead. Literate Germans everywhere know this!

          Fressen Sie bitte meine nackt grosse schlange.

          1. AND YOU WERW TALKING TO A PERSON AHAHAHAHAAJ YOU FUCKING MORON AAHAHAH YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU USED THE WRONG WORD ahahahhaja

            JUST LIKE I SAID

            Ahahahaahhaahajajaj i win again

          2. “Literate Germans everywhere know this!”

            Exactly!! THAT’S WHY I CORRECTED YOU AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

            “Fressen Sie”

            Ahahahahahahahha you’re STILL GETTING IT WRONG!!!

            THANKS FOR ADMITTING I’M YOUR SOCIAL BETTER WITH “SIE” THOUGH
            AHAHAAHAHAHAHHAA

            DU BIST EIN ESEL AHAHAHAHAHAJAJAJ

            1. HE USED SIE AHAHAAHHA HE KNOWS HIS PLACE REFLEXIVELY AHAHAHAHAAHAJ HE KNOWS I’M his BETTER AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

              1. You’re wrong like usual, asshole! Dear friends and close relatives in German are address as “du”… In public, strangers (whether they are hotel maids or Top Men politicians) are Sie or Ze… It is NOT your “social superiority” here that is at issue, you arrogant uber-snob you!

                From The Google (who knows all and sees all).

                You must say “Sie” to everybody, unless it is a friend, a child or a family member.

                In german language, like in any other language a pronoun is used to signify formal/informal ways to address a person. The difference between Du and Sie is just the way of addressing a person informally versus formally. ‘Du’ denotes the informal way.Nov 13, 2018

                1. “Dear friends and close relatives in German are address as “du”… In public, strangers (whether they are hotel maids or Top Men politicians) are Sie or Ze… It is NOT your “social superiority” here that is at issue, you arrogant uber-snob you!”

                  Ahahahahahahahha KEEP PROVING YOU KNOW DICK ABOUT GERMAN AHAHAHAHAHAJAHAHAHA

                  Du is INFORMAL, SIE is FORMAL and a sign of higher station or respect AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH THAT’S WHY YOU GOT FRESSEN WRONG YOU DON’T ACTUALLY KNOW GERMAN AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJ

                2. “Du’ denotes the informal way.Nov 13, 2018”

                  Ahahahahah and YOU ADDRESSED ME FORMALLY, LIKE I SAID AHAHAJA YOU PROVED MY POINT YOU KNOW YOUR PLACE AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

                  1. AHAHAHAHAH HE CLAIMS,HE USED FRESSEN ON PURPOSE AND THAT IT WASN’T A FUCKUP

                    BUT THEN HE USES “Sie” AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

                3. No SQRLSY you have it wrong. You would only use “Sie” if you didn’t know him. It looks like you do know him or at least have some background so when you used “Sie” you treated him like your boss or one of your older relatives that you’re showing respect to. It isn’t simply a more formal version of “You” like you’re trying to say.

                  1. AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH HE’LL NEVER ADMIT IT AHAHAHAHAJAJAAJ

                  2. https://www.dw.com/en/the-du-sie-dilemma-in-german/a-16494631
                    “For those learning German, choosing between the informal “du” and the formal “Sie” to address someone can be tricky. But even for native German speakers, it’s getting harder to decide – after all, language changes.”

                    “A boss may say to an employee: “Markus, könnten Sie bitte…?” (“Markus, could you [formal, second person singular] please…”) ”

                    So you see, a socially superior uber-snob can (and does) speak formally to a low-life vermin… Even German uber-beings are allowed to stoop so low!

                    1. “A boss may say to an employee:”

                      Ahahahaahahahy you admit he was right ahahahahahhaj

                      “when you used “Sie” you treated him like your boss or one of your older relatives that you’re showing respect to”

                      AHAHAHAAHAHAHH YOU PROVED HIM RIGHT AHAHAHAHH,AND ME TOO HOW FUCKING STUPID ARE YOU AHAHAHHAH

                    2. “So you see, a socially superior”

                      Ahahahahahah YOU’RE SO EMBARASSED BY BEING WRONG THAT YOU’RE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF AHAHAHAHAHAAHA

                    3. Yes SQRSLY, that was my point. By choosing “Sie” when he was using “du” you assigned him superior social status.

                      What are you having trouble with?

                    4. My God, you can’t even READ! READ what I have posted, moron!

                      You’re not even ashamed to admit that you’re so stupid and-or uneducated that you can’t even READ?

                    5. Ahahahahahahahhe doesn’t understand how he fucked up ahahahahahahja

                      IT’S ALMOST LIKE WE’RE SPEAKING GERMAN WHICH HE ALSO DOESN’T UNDERSTAND AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHA

                    6. I did read. You said

                      “I know how to treat others the way that I would like to be treated. It’s that simple.”

                      And then proceeded to make excuses for why it isn’t simple.

                      That was before you posted proof that you still don’t understand why you choosing to use “Sie” assigns me higher social status.

                      Oh, and that stupid fucking link? YOU need to read it. Because you STILL don’t understand what you got wrong ahahahahajaj

                    7. Ahahahahahah

                      YOU SAD PIECE OF SHIT YOU TRUNCATED THE PARAGRAPH YOU QUOTED BECAUSE IT PROVES YOU WRONG!!!! WHAT KIND OF SAD SHITBAG DOES THAT!!!

                      A boss may say to an employee: “Markus, könnten Sie bitte…?” (“Markus, could you [formal, second person singular] please…”) This is called the “Hamburger du” form and is often found in asymetrical relationships or hierarchies, such as among bosses and their subordinates. But the employee should under no circumstances respond in the same way: He or she is always to address their superior with “Sie”

                      Ahahahahahaahj YOU SAD LYING PIECE OF SHIT I CAUGHT YOU AGAIN AHAHAHAHAJAJAJ

          3. “SQRLSY One
            September.15.2019 at 11:37 am
            People essen. Animals like Tulpa fressen, instead”

            I’ll take pretending you knew it was wrong but did it on purpose (he wasn’t talking to me when he fucked up) for 1000 Alex.

            1. Those who act childish deserve to be called childish. Those who behave like animals shitting in the barnyard… Which includes threadshitters of all kinds… deserve to be called animals.

              You don’t want to be called an animal? Then stop acting like one!

              1. HAHAHAHAH JUST BECAUSE YOUR DOMME TELLS YOU TO “frisst die scheiße ” doesn’t mean it is grammatically correct ahahahhaha

                ““SQRLSY One
                August.28.2019 at 5:13 pm
                And the “legitimate public purpose” is???

                I know how to treat others the way that I would like to be treated. It’s that simple. “Others” includes those that evil people like to call illegal sub-humans, and so forth

                Ahhaahhaahahhaahhahahah YOU’RE A SAD LYING HYPOCRITE AND I CAUGHT YOU AHAHAHAH YOU DIDN’T KNOW IT WAS WRONG BEFORE I CORRECTED YOU, AND NOW YOU’RE FURIOUSLY TRYING TO AVOID THE FACT THAT YOUR WORDS WERE LIES AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJ

                (ps you weren’t talkomg to me when you got “fressen” wrong, so even your weak ass hypocrisy doesn’t work)

                1. Please go to Germany then, you uber-expert in everything… Germany needs you a LOT more than we do! Go tell the Germans your (wrong) ways of speaking German! Heil Tulpa!

                  Language is constantly evolving anyway… I am SURE that You can convince the Germans to come over to YOUR way of speaking German!

                  1. “Language is constantly evolving anyway”

                    AHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH YOU WERE WRONG BUT LANGUAGE “EVOLVES” AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

                    YOU’RE SUCH A SAD ARROGANT LYING EVIL SATANIC HYPOCRITE AHAHAHAHAJ (remember you aseld for that)

                    AhaAhahahahahjaha YOU WERE WRONG AND JUST SPENT HOURS MAKKMG A FOOL OF YOURSELF TRYING TO AVOID ADMITTING IT AND THEN WE GET “Language is constantly evolving anyway” AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

                    YOU SAD FUCKING HYPOCRITE AHAHAHAJAJAJA

                    1. shorter SQRAZY “I WASN’T WRONG LANGUAGE EVOLVES”

                      AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAJAH

                  2. *Go tell the Germans your (wrong) ways of speaking German!*

                    “Fressen” is wrong when addressing a human. Even as an insult. It doesn’t convey that you are likening them to an animal the way you are trying to do. Instead it looks like you are a second language German speaker trying to be clever but coming off as an elementary level German speaker.

                    1. My German teacher told me that to accuse a human of “fressing” was a way to insult their table manners.

                    2. AND said teacher grew up in Germany! Speaking German as a first language.

                    3. Ahahahahahah

                      YOU SAD PIECE OF SHIT YOU TRUNCATED THE PARAGRAPH YOU QUOTED BECAUSE IT PROVES YOU WRONG!!!! WHAT KIND OF SAD SHITBAG DOES THAT!!!

                      A boss may say to an employee: “Markus, könnten Sie bitte…?” (“Markus, could you [formal, second person singular] please…”) This is called the “Hamburger du” form and is often found in asymetrical relationships or hierarchies, such as among bosses and their subordinates. But the employee should under no circumstances respond in the same way: He or she is always to address their superior with “Sie”

                      Ahahahahahaahj YOU SAD LYING PIECE OF SHIT I CAUGHT YOU AGAIN AHAHAHAHAJAJAJ

                    4. I’m a 62 year old German. From Germany. Freiburg to be precise.

                      If your goal is to continue making mistakes and speaking like a fool then by all meams discard my advice.

                    5. He cut off thr part that proves him wrong, HE DOESN’T SPEAK GERMAN AT ALL AHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAJAJA

                      WHAT A SAD LYING SHITBAG TO CUT OFF THE PART THAT PROVES HIM WRONG AHAHAHAHAAJAJ

                    6. Tulpa, you really ARE a moron! Sie is formal and du is informal!

                      Once again… Try to READ now…

                      A boss may say to an employee: “Markus, könnten Sie bitte…?” (“Markus, could you [formal, second person singular] please…”)

                      Uber-superior boss-dude using SIE, formal!

                      As an underling, don’t use “du” unless specifically invited to do so!

                    7. Ahahahaha you STILL DONT UNDERSTAND THAT YOU KEEP PROVIMG MY POINT

                      YOU CHOSE TO USE SIE

                      I USED DU

                      YOU ADMITTED I WAS YOUR SOCIAL BETTER BY DOING THAT

                      AHAHAHAH YOU FUCKING RETARD YOU CAN’T SPEAK GERMAN, YOU JUST REPEAT IT AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

                    8. Ahahahaha you STILL DONT UNDERSTAND THAT YOU KEEP PROVIMG MY POINT

                      YOU CHOSE TO USE SIE

                      I USED DU

                      YOU ADMITTED I WAS YOUR SOCIAL BETTER BY DOING THAT

                      AHAHAHAH YOU FUCKING RETARD YOU CAN’T SPEAK GERMAN, YOU JUST REPEAT IT AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

                    9. Ahahaahahah I CAN’T BELEIVE YOU’RE STILL SALTY BECAUSE AI POIMTED OUT YIUR GERMAN SUCKS AND THAT YOU’RE A LYING HYPOCRITE AHAHAJAJ

                      “LANGUAGE EVOLVES” HE SAID AS HE WAS WRONG AHAHAHAHAHAHA

                    10. Um, what’s going on I didn’t post that.

                    11. Tulpa is correct SQLRSY. You assigned yourself a lower social status by using “Sie” instead of “du” while he was using “du”

                    12. No! I don’t care what any of you say Tulpa is Satanic and evil! Satan doesn’t rule me and cannot win!

                    13. Well I got bad news Whihno, you handed me this win when you edited out the part that made you wrong.

                      And then of course, there’s,your sad fucking lie that you “know how to treat others the way that I would like to be treated. It’s that simple. ”

                      Everyone can see how much of a sad fucking liar you are.

                    14. Oh wait, someone is having fun with this now. Ok.

                    15. Die Tötmacher
                      September.15.2019 at 2:08 pm
                      Ahahahaha you STILL DONT UNDERSTAND THAT YOU KEEP PROVIMG MY POINT

                      Die Tötmacher
                      is a lying shitweasel about being a German, and is obviously Tulpa! HOW STUPID do you think we are, stupid shitweasel?!?!

                      So I stand accused of addressing you politely with “Sie”, as good Germans do. You address me as “du”, without me giving you permission to do so! As you would expect a low-life animalistic shitweasel to do! So I am polite, and you are not… An accusation that I will proudly bear!

                    16. You were wrong and know it, we get it.

                      You admitted as much when you edited out the part that made you wrong.

                      And then of course, there’s the golden rule you lied about..m

                    17. “So I stand accused of addressing you politely with “Sie”, as good Germans do. You address me as “du”, without me giving you permission to do so! As you would expect a low-life animalistic shitweasel to do! So I am polite, and you are not… An accusation that I will proudly bear!”

                      Proud or not means fuckall, you admitted you were a lower social station. We can all see how you suddenly tacked away from pretending you weren’t wrong.

                      “As you would expect a low-life animalistic shitweasel to do”

                      You mean like you did with “fressen” to a person you didn’t know?

                      Yeah. You can’t stop being a hypocrite. Who knows he is beneath me.

                    18. SQRLSY One
                      September.15.2019 at 2:17 pm
                      No! I don’t care what any of you say Tulpa is Satanic and evil! Satan doesn’t rule me and cannot win!

                      I didn’t post that! Tulpa is hacking us again! He-she-it is inserting invisible control characters as a method of stealing our identities!

                    19. “without me giving you permission to do so!”

                      You’re not my boss fucktard, and we aren’t strangers. You keep proving you know dick about German.

                      God damn, it’s like you don’t read your own links, oh wait, you DO you just EDIT OUT THE PARTS THAT PROVE YOU WRONG VAHAHAJAJAAJA

                    20. “He-she-it is inserting invisible control characters as a method of stealing our identities!”

                      Oh jesus, sorry local mental hospital, I broke Whihno again.

                      Meds Whihn. Take them.

                      PS I’m happy I had the opportumity to point out how shitty your German is. Before I broke you that is.

                  3. “Tulpa is hacking us again! He-she-it is inserting invisible control characters as a method of stealing our identities!”

                    So you’re saying you’re actually insane.

                    1. Tulpoopy stole my precious fluids! Sie ist meine meister!!!

                    2. Thank you. He thinks it’s you which makes it even better.

                    3. He also thinks he knows German though, so we can see that what he thinks isn’t worth much.

                    4. SQRLSY One
                      September.15.2019 at 2:49 pm
                      Thank you. He thinks it’s you which makes it even better.

                      I did not post the above… Tulpa the identity thief is at it again!

                    5. lol none of the other Tulpas in this thread are me nice job spoofer credit where it’s due

                    6. “I did not post the above”

                      Like anyone cares you crazy old fuck.

    2. You may be right. This part bothers me:

      The moment in the Malheur story that bears the most emotional weight is the murder by Oregon state troopers of LaVoy Finicum, but it gets strangely short shrift

      What else gets short shrift? There’s only so much I want to read about corrupt government (but I repeat myself), and I’d hate to put much effort into this if I’d only end up with a partial account and even less interest in a later more complete book on the subject.

  3. Past reason article with some interesting takes

    https://reason.com/1995/06/01/storm-over-the-rockies/

  4. “this country is now full of men and women with long-term personal experience of contemporary guerrilla insurrection.”

    As opposed to the late 1960s and early 1970s, when we were coming back from Viet Nam in big bunches?

    1. To the extent that the Military was dealing with guerrilla insurrection in Vietnam, it is my impression that it was doing so badly. Individual soldiers and small units may have done quite well, but the Pentagon Brass were learning nothing. I think our successes in the Middle East (in spite of muddle headed or flat out idiotic political decisions) come in part from the career soldiers whose experience in Vietnam lead to changes in how the Brass made plans for this sort of thing.

      At least, that’s my impression. But I have never served in the military, and so many of the historical accounts of the Vietnam military actions are Far Left hogwash that I find it hard to read up on the subject.

      1. The lessons weren’t learned very well. When the insurgency heated up in Iraq military brass copied many of the same mistakes made in Vietnam. Drive the insurgents out of village, return to a centrally fortified position. Insurgents move back in. Rinse, lather and repeat. The Marines and David Petreaus changed the tactics to take a village, leave forces there and drive the insurgents from the next village. Train the locals to police their own villages and give them ownership in policing it. We wanted to avoid looking like occupiers (which is stupid) so we never occupied anything. To a degree we are still using a modification of the original Vietnam style of strategy in Afghanistan.

    2. There’s a significant cultural difference now. Back then they called us baby killers. Now they thinknua for our service.

      In the 60-79’s even if you aligned with someone ideologically your time in uniform was a black mark against your character. Now those with these experiences are much more likely to be idoliized by or sympathetic with those with grievances against the government.

      There’s also very little resistance to the power of government on any ideological ‘side’ now. Both the left and right seek powerful and intrusive government. The last thing they want is making an enemny of the people who have living memory of where that leads and the abilities to resist.

  5. The battle over public lands suffers from an overabundance of horses’ asses on both sides. The Ranchers and allies are frequently somewhat sketchy characters, which doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get better treatments from the Government. The Government’s side all too frequently includes people so sure of their righteousness that their actions make the loons surrounding the Ranchers look like angels.

    The core fact is, the Government owns entirely too much land, and manages it poorly. Certainly, it should be discouraged from acquiring more. An argument exists, and not wholly on the fringe, that private ownership of most current public lands would serve the ecology better.

    And there go the Greens’ heads like so many popcorn kernels.

    1. ” that private ownership of most current public lands would serve the ecology better.”

      Not necessarily. Let’s say we sold Yellowstone park to the Chinese. Within a few years they’d harvest every last grizzly bear gall bladder, killing the poor bears in the process.

        1. By the way “Let’s say we sold Yellowstone park to the Chinese. Within a few years they’d harvest every last grizzly bear gall bladder, killing the poor bears in the process.”

          That’s,deeply racist. And dumb, since it didn’t happen in africa.

          1. ” And dumb, since it didn’t happen in africa.”

            The Chinese killed the last African grizzly years ago.

        2. I agree, Tulpa. I’m far too busy fighting for two week old fetuses and making rape victims give birth to their rape babies to care about a bunch of stupid grizzlies.

        3. ” Who cares.”

          C. S. P. Schofield cares. The one who wants to ‘serve the ecology better.’

          1. Dumb beyond measure. Fuck off.

  6. “And there go the Greens’ heads like so many popcorn kernels.”
    Nice analogy LOL.

  7. Black Cat Dead KhumPhiang

  8. OT:
    After whiffing on “THE RUSSKIS!!!!”, and “OBSTRUCTION!!!!!”,
    the NYT is making a valiant effort at a 3rd strike, pimping a recession with every bit of hint and innuendo they can get away with (and to the lefty imbeciles, that’s quite a bit):

    “Recession or Slowdown? Why You Should Care About the Difference”
    […]
    “The United States is on recession watch as market signals flash red. Manufacturing is straining under President Trump’s trade war, business investment is slowing and consumer confidence is showing cracks….”
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/recession-or-slowdown-why-you-should-care-about-the-difference/ar-AAHf5d3

  9. And Bloomberg piles on! Can they be far behind Krugman?

    “Recession Already Grips Corners of U.S., Menacing Trump’s 2020 Bid”
    […]
    “The moment usually comes during Greg Petras’s commute through the rolling hills and cornfields of southern Wisconsin. Somewhere between his home near Madison and the factory he runs on the edge of the small town of Brodhead, the news will turn to the trade wars and Donald Trump will again claim that China is bearing the cost of his tariffs. That’s when Petras loses it.
    “It’s just an outright lie, and he knows it,” says Petras, president of Kuhn North America, which employs some 600 people at its farm-equipment factory in Wisconsin. For Kuhn, Trump’s trade war has produced a toxic mix of rising costs and falling revenues. “You’re slamming your fist on the steering wheel and saying ‘Why would you tell people this?’”
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-09-09/a-manufacturing-recession-could-cost-trump-a-second-term?utm_source=pocket-newtab

    The Green New Deal will make America great again!

  10. If only teh government would treat antifa like they treat right wing protesters. i guarantee Antifa would not be a thing for long or would the media say those dead antifa had it coming

  11. An occupier offers one of the story’s blunter morals when he tells McCann, “The government might kill you if you tried to form a commune.” McCann concedes the point. The “experience at Malheur,” he writes, “seemed to bear this out.”

    Lol, wut?

    Look, if you want to argue that the government doesn’t like communes, go for it.

    But in this story, they were on government land, in government buildings, preventing government employees from going to work. Government hostility to communes has nothing to do with this case.

    1. There’s no such thing as “government land” – it is public land, owned by the public.

  12. He pulled over abruptly at the side of the road and got out of the truck, at which point FBI agents started shooting; state troopers then killed him as he stumbled about in the snow.

    this was the SECOND time he and the passengers in his truck had been fired upon. The earlier one was a few miles back up that same road. As the bullets began to fly, LaVoy took off, mainly to protect the five innocents in the truck from the gunfire. At the second roadblock, they had already begun firing upon him as the truck came near enough. The roadblock had little warning, and on slippery snow one does not stop on a dime….. he exited the truck mainly to draw the fire away from his passengers. He was NOT armed, the nine mm semi automatic pistol attributed to him was not recognised by any of his family members or closest friends.. he was a wheelgun guy. Other testimony revealed that he and the others had deliverately chosen to take this trip unarmed. All had left their weapons back at the Reserve. WHY did Kate Brown authorise this excessive use of force ? What crime had he committed that warranted a full on tactical roadblock, Oregon State Police wiht RIFLES, as if they were out bear hunting?

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