Campus Free Speech

Survey: 59% of Republicans Now Think College Is Bad for America

Republicans and right-leaning independents have turned rapidly against higher ed.

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Only half of all Americans now have a positive view of colleges and universities, according to a new survey from Pew Research. The number of people who take a negative view has increased from 26 percent in 2012 to 38 percent in 2019.

The change largely reflects a growing dissatisfaction on the right with the culture of college campuses. The percentage of Republicans who see value in higher education has collapsed in recent years, from 53 percent in 2012 to just 33 percent in 2019.*

According to Pew:

Roughly eight-in-ten Republicans (79%) say professors bringing their political and social views into the classroom is a major reason why the higher education system is headed in the wrong direction (only 17% of Democrats say the same). And three-quarters of Republicans (vs. 31% of Democrats) point to too much concern about protecting students from views they might find offensive as a major reason for their views. In addition, Republicans are more likely than Democrats to say students not getting the skills they need to succeed in the workplace is a major reason why the higher education system is headed in the wrong direction (73% vs. 56%).

Democrats who take a negative view of higher ed are most likely to cite rising costs as the issue.

I do not think "professors bringer their political and social views into the classroom" is a significant issue, or even necessarily a bad thing: Professors should feel free to express their opinions, even if these opinions are controversial or make some students uncomfortable. And while the ideological composition of academia is heavily tilted toward progressivism, there's little evidence that progressive professors tend to be biased against non-progressive students.

Those concerns aside, the issues being raised by both Republican and Democratic survey respondents are valid. It's reasonable to question a system that takes young people out of the workforce at a pivotal time in their lives, saddles them with tons of debt, obliges them to learn a bunch of things they are likely to forget, gives them delusional ideas about the degree of protection from harmful speech to which they are entitled, and then churns out graduates who are overqualified for the jobs they find.

Higher-education leaders need to be cognizant of the public's concerns. The majority of people—Republicans and Democrats; whites, blacks, Asians, and Hispanics—do not believe race should be a factor in admissions decisions, and yet some of the most elite institutional educations in the country have defiantly maintained such a practice.

Colleges and universities are not the only major institution suffering a crisis of public confidence, of course: Pew also found that Americans increasingly take a negative view of tech companies, churches, and the media. (Banks and labor unions, on the other hand, are enjoying a relative resurgence in popularity.)

"The partisan gaps underlying these views are reflective of our politics more broadly," writes Pew. "But views on the nation's educational institutions have not traditionally been politicized. Higher education faces a host of challenges in the future—controlling costs amid increased fiscal pressures, ensuring that graduates are prepared for the jobs of the future, adapting to changing technology and responding to the country's changing demographics. Ideological battles waged over the climate and culture on college campuses may make addressing these broader issues more difficult."

Pew writes as if these "ideological" concerns are entirely unfounded. This seems wrong to me. I'll turn again to Harvard, which recently removed a law professor as faculty dean because some leftist students decided his principled defense of Harvey Weinstein's right to effective legal counsel would make the campus an unsafe place. The ACLU accused Harvard of "sacrificing principles central to our legal system."

Disciplining Sullivan was an extremely bad decision. If it prompted some number of Americans to take an increasingly view of negative higher education—citing concerns that administrators are coddling students and failing to prepare them for real life—could you really blame them?

Update: This figure has been corrected.

NEXT: NYPD Officer Daniel Pantaleo Is Fired 5 Years After Placing Eric Garner in a Chokehold

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  1. Look at what the majority of majors are these days and argue it is good. Most of the majors wont pay for themselves. Parts of colleges are great (engineering and hard sciences). Parts of colleges are fucking terrible (sociology and grievance studies). There are now 2 dozen colleges that offer a major on social justice. That shit isnt good for anybody. Grade inflation is rampant making college degrees no longer proof of learning.

    1. Robby… you paraphrase terribly.

      “The percentage of Republicans who see value in higher education has collapsed in recent years, from 53 percent in 2012 to just 23 percent in 2019.

      According to Pew:

      Roughly eight-in-ten Republicans (79%) say professors bringing their political and social views into the classroom is a major reason why the higher education system is headed in the wrong direction (only 17% of Democrats say the same).”

      Those ideas are completely separate. You can view professors bringing in politics as bad while still believing there is some value. What a shit article robby.

      1. Yep, pretty terrible

        1. YOU’RE PRETTY TERRIBLE!

          *runs out of room crying*

          1. You’re pretty when you’re terrible.

            1. Clearly, college is bad for America. In some instances, far from being taught to treat respectable individuals in a seemly manner, the students have been known even to subject their professors to inappropriate mockery. What does that bode for our society at large? Hopefully, the prurient youth of our nation will somehow yet be brought to understand that actions have consequences. In the meantime, steps should rapidly be taken to prevent college students from viewing any form of objectionable material that has the potential of subverting morality, including above all the documentation of America’s leading criminal “satire” case at:

              https://raphaelgolbtrial.wordpress.com/

        2. This is not sloppy writing, it’s not poor writing, it is mendacity. The problem is not with higher education, it is with what monstrosity has usurped higher education.

      2. That’s not a paraphrase – that’s pulling two entirely different statistics out of the original report. The first is a paraphrase of the general conclusion, the second is a quote of a specific example explaining why.

    2. It all depends on what “college” means. If “college” just means higher education in useful things (or even less than useful, but paid for by the customer), then I doubt most Republicans have a problem with it. On the other hand, if “college” means the cartel of educational institutions that feed at the federal trough, serve as ultra-overpriced and unnecessary gatekeepers to good career, and seek to spread their ideology instead of providing a valuable service to their customers…well, yeah, it seems bad.

      I am not convinced that “safe spaces” itself is much more than a very loud minority. But even if they aren’t, I don’t want a cartel of government-supported gatekeepers deciding who gets good careers.

      1. The very loud minority has effective control of the administrators.

        1. How many college now require a women’s studies course for every major as a graduation requirement?

          1. None that I could find… did you look before spouting nonsense?

      2. Not sure if it’s the students driving this. I suspect its the administrators and certain faculty that cooked up safe spaces and triggering nonsense. The students respond to what is expected of them. I don’t hear much of this going on in high schools although HS students are heavily steeped in “RAACIIISSMM” training. I don’t know if they get a cookie or gold star every time they sniff out racists/witches. We have turned out the “Great White Racist Hunter” generation though.

    3. Too many people go to college. Higher education is great if that’s your thing. But we don’t need to encourage every high school graduate to get a 4 year liberal arts education. Encouraging education beyond high school is good. But it’s been done terribly with way too much emphasis on traditional Universities, which were never meant to train a workforce, but rather the children of the upper classes and the next generation of academics.

      1. You’re not wrong. But here’s the trick… how do you argue that it’s good for Trump, and Bush, and other Republican political leaders to send their kids to college, but you, Joe the Plumber, shouldn’t aspire to that?

        Make it a symbol of the “upper class”, and of course everyone wants in on it.

        So if you want to stop so many folks from going to college, you have to stop it from being that symbol.

        1. You’re not wrong. But here’s the trick… how do you argue that it’s good for Trump, and Bush, and other Republican political leaders to send their kids to college, but you, Joe the Plumber, shouldn’t aspire to that?

          Show them that you can out earn many college graduates without crushing debt. Also explain to them, carefully, that you don’t need a college degree to drive a pedicab.

          1. Or make a latte.

          2. So you’re fundamentally misunderstanding what folks want for their kids.

            1. I’ll tell you what I want for my (grand)kids: a skill to earn a living that has a future and growth opportunity but does not burden them with a debt that they must spend decades to pay off at the wages it will help them earn.

            2. “So you’re fundamentally misunderstanding what folks want for their kids.”

              Folks, you can turn the page, or you can donate a buck or so to help EE hire some help to drag those strawmen around!

            3. Preach it EE, tell us all what we want for our kids.

          3. Or, given what is available free on the internet, get a classical liberal education.

        2. I don’t so much want to stop anyone from doing anything as to get rid of the subsidies and incentives that lead so many to get fairly useless educations at great expense.
          I fear that not much will change until we see a higher education bubble pop and lots of schools go out of business. The schools are all in on it. Their whole business model depends on everyone being told that going to college is great for everyone and don’t worry about the debt.

          1. And so long as it’s a symbol of the “upper class”, that bubble won’t pop.

            In case you forgot, rich folk are very good at finding ways to get other people to pay for their largess.

            1. “And so long as it’s a symbol of the “upper class”, that bubble won’t pop.
              In case you forgot, rich folk are very good at finding ways to get other people to pay for their largess.”

              Now that you’ve attempted to make it non-falsifiable, we can ignore your nonsense.

          2. The business model also depends on government backed students loans guaranteed to meet need, which drives excessive spending on internal upgrades which raise the cost of tuition.

        3. Problem is K-12 is leaving so many miseducated or uneducated and that’s been going on for a long time. 30 years ago a neighbor was going to college, I asked what she was taking. “Remedial English” she told me. Nobody noticed in 12 years,

          1. “In 100 years we have gone from teaching Latin and Greek in high school to teaching Remedial English in college.”
            …Joseph Sobran

          2. “30 years ago a neighbor was going to college, I asked what she was taking. “Remedial English” she told me. Nobody noticed in 12 years.

            “College English,” or, as we call it in the Ed Biz — “Standard Edited English” — is a form of written English which, outside of a small minority of writers, exists nearly totally inside the educational system. It’s usefulness, even within the system, is widely questioned.

            The first “remedial English course” was taught at Stanford University, IIRC, in 1908. It was supposed to be a temporary class until the High Schools “caught up” teaching students. I guess we have a ways to go….

            The head of the English Department at my Alma Mater once told me that the main reason the Department exists is not to teach people literature, or critical thinking processes, but rather to ensure that the students SOUND like they went to college.

        4. “how do you argue that it’s good for Trump, and Bush, and other Republican political leaders to send their kids to college, but you, Joe the Plumber, shouldn’t aspire to that?”

          1) If Trump wants to spend money for his kid to waste 4 years, why would I care? Nobody said it’s “good”.
          2) Screw ‘symbolism’. I seems lefty ‘feelz’ are beginning to be seen for the hogwash they are.

        5. Essentially, what we need is directed education. A lot of people go to college simply because they are supposed to, without a specific goal. This is why there are so many more undeclared liberal arts or psychology majors than engineers. If you want to be an engineer, you start out in the engineering school. If you want to be an accountant, you start in the management school. People who don’t know what they want to do settle down in one of the “easy” majors. That’s where the waste is.

          We graduate about ten times as many music majors as the economy can take. After all, there are just a handful of jobs for professional bassoonists in even a major city. We graduate a hundred times as many psychology majors as we need, to the point that anything short of a doctorate is useless at gaining any work in the field.

          Those are the people who need to not go to college.

          And speaking about Joe the plumber. The craftsmen at my job make as much or more than the engineers even without a college degree. They were paid for their apprenticeships and are as a whole far more fulfilled than many of my former college friends.

      2. Yup Zeb.

        Plumbers dont need to go to college and that is A-Okay.

        Engineers probably need an advanced degree and that is A-Okay.

        1. If plumbers benefited from college rest assured more would go.

          Not like they can’t afford it.

        2. I don’t know about all engineers, but for software engineering that is totally wrong and I’m living proof. I dropped out of college studying computer science after 2 and a half years for full time work and have been making a six figure salary since before turning 30 (in Texas, not in wage inflated California). My experience is the crap they teach you in college is 90% theoretical and 10% useful for making practical software. My experience shows the exact opposite, the higher educated you are the more worthless you are for writing quality software and the more prone you are to making obvious rookie mistakes. As for fresh computer science bachelors graduates, they aren’t far from providing less value than the cost to micromanage, mentor and babysit them.

          1. I certainly would not disagree with you — college was not intended to be job training, and “making practical software” doesn’t need much of what college will offer. I am also proof: I learned Fortran, Lisp, Cobal and other programming languages as a high school student in the mid-1960s. By the time I got to college I was programming the physics department’s mainframe to solve homework problems. But I also remember two summer at MIT working on Project MAC, the first multi-user machine, where the serious electrical engineers were working at a level that they could not have achieved without fairly advanced education — those of us who could program couldn’t come close building the machine.

            Programming is a skill that can be taught, like plumbing, without any college — if that’s the level you like working at, go for it. Like plumbing, it pays well, and is steady work. College serves a different purpose.

      3. Well, there was also a time when HS diplomas meant basic literacy and competency in math. That is no longer a guarantee

        1. It amazes me when I hear about the standards for high school. Hell, even when I was in school it was kind of pathetic. I think it was in 6th grade I tested as “post high school” in reading and writing ability. I wasn’t that smart in 6th grade. How fucking dumb is everyone else?

          1. At my daughter’s charter school they take the state mandated high school graduation exams in 7th grade. Her school at 7th grade passes at a much higher rate than the state average for public school. The exam is a joke.

        2. That was a LONG time ago.
          My first job out of college (technical degree; 1970) was working on the first automated candidate-to-job matching system for the Department of Labor. As we reviewed all of the paper job listings created by the state workers, to prepare them for a consistent format, one of the changes we made was to the ‘education required’ text box. We replaced “high school education” with “able to read and write” because the grade inflation and social promotion policies at the time had shown there was in fact a difference.

        3. There was also a time when a HS diploma also signified an ability to show up for work every day, on time, dressed and sober.

          Now (as Caplan points out) employers use a college degree as an indicator for at least some of those employee attributes (but can still be wrong).

          1. Not disagreeing with you, but there’s something more than a little ironic at using college attendance as a proxy for being able “to show up for work every day, on time, dressed and sober.”

            1. I was 1/4 at best

    4. This is a classic “ask a stupid question” scenario.

      There is no value in various SJW “-studies” fields. There is little value in modern Liberal Arts programs that devalue the classics, there is little value in Ed schools relative to the (basic, expensive) credentialling they offer vs the benefit to society it delivers. In fact, there is a lot of harm spread by many of the fields, all while producing entitled, indebted, useless graduates.

      There is of course much good in most Business programs, and undeniable necessity in STEM programs.

      1. There is serious value in SJW degrees if you are interested in raw power over your fellow man.
        Those degrees get you into the ‘good ol person’ club where you have the contacts to get hired in HR, and determine who does and does not get a job. That way you can populate a company with socialists who will whine and cry and stamp their feet until the corporation refuses to do business with the US government, or agrees to perform spying for foreign companies (at least on their own people).
        You will have the power to determine what words, and therefore what thoughts, can be openly expressed.
        As Elsworth said; why divide and conquer when you can unite and rule.

        1. “There is serious value in SJW degrees if you are interested in raw power over your fellow man.”

          It wouldn’t hurt if you are looking for a job in Hollywood, a place with highly paid jobs, but notorious for being rife with Jews, Leftists, and other disreputable types.

          1. “It wouldn’t hurt if you are looking for a job in Hollywood, a place with highly paid jobs, but notorious for being rife with Jews, Leftists, and other disreputable types.”

            Why are you wasting bandwidth with your tripe?
            Fuck off.

            1. “Why are you wasting bandwidth with your tripe?”

              I disagreed with the original comment. Next question.

          2. the anti-semite says what?

            1. “the anti-semite says what?”

              Who cares. Ignore the idiots.

    5. The majority of people—Republicans and Democrats; whites, blacks, Asians, and Hispanics—do not believe race should be a factor in admissions decisions, and yet some of the most elite institutional educations in the country have defiantly maintained such a practice.

      Yes, there are many racist institutions who admit wholly unqualified applicants – as long as they’re female, black, or some other “minority”.

  2. I do not think “professors bringer their political and social views into the classroom” is a significant issue, or even necessarily a bad thing:

    Of course you don’t Robby. But that’s because you’re an idiot.

    If I’m paying you to teach me 16 century French romantic poetry, I don’t want you wasting half of each class shrieking about how bad the orange man is.

    If I’m paying you for an MBA, I don’t want my time wasted by having to comply with SJW requirements.

    There is so much useless, indoctrinatory garbage that one is forced to pay for these days to get even the simplest degree that college is fast becoming not just not worth it, but an actual detriment.

    1. Of course, this is typical Robby deflection. The objection is not the professor bring in his own opinion, it is to the professor denying everyone the right to have a different opinion.

    2. If I’m paying you to teach me 16 century French romantic poetry, I don’t want you wasting half of each class shrieking about how bad the orange man is.

      Orange man aside, your 16th Century French romantic poetry degree is pretty shitty if the content changes every 4 yrs. and is largely based on the professor(s) teaching. Obviously, there’s going to be some diversity between things like Austrian schools and Keynesian schools, but the very basis of teaching objective facts and history inherent to either system means Austrian schools shouldn’t adopt Keynesian ethics every other Presidential term.

      Unless Trump burns every last piece of 16th Century French romantic poetry, it’s overwhelmingly going to be the same poetry before and after his term.

      1. If Trump burns every last piece of 16th century French romantic poetry, I’m pretty sure he’ll win the next election on that alone.

        1. I think there’s one Trump, who’s President, and another Trump who lives only in your head.

        2. oh stop your affectation, dullard

      2. Unless Trump burns every last piece of 16th Century French romantic poetry, it’s overwhelmingly going to be the same poetry before and after his term.

        Absolutely.

        But you won’t know that.

        Because, instead of teaching you anything useful about 16th Century French romantic poetry, the professor spends the classes railing against Trump and capitalism.

      3. “16th Century French romantic poetry,”

        There is no such thing. This teacher you are paying is certainly a charlatan, most likely a Democrat. 19th century English romantic poetry is the way to go. Wilhelm Blake, and a whole slew of others are there waiting for you. But no, you think you know otherwise, right?

    3. I’ll teach you all the Romantic 16th century French poetry you’ll ever need to know.

      There. Get it? There is no such thing. This teacher you are paying is certainly a charlatan, most likely a Democrat. 19th century English romantic poetry is the way to go. Wilhelm Blake, and a whole slew of others are there waiting for you.

  3. It matters a great deal if professors are promoting controversial ideas that are, with rare exceptions, controversial in the same way. And also if those same professors work to suppress ideas on campus that they find uncomfortable.

    As to the idea that college is too expensive for what real skills are learned or the value of the credential obtained, are they wrong?

  4. As the old saw goes, the point is not why Americans are anti-intellectual, but why intellectuals are anti-American.

  5. College isn’t bad for America.
    Being indoctrinated by a bunch of clueless, over-educated idiotic progressive bullies who engage in suppression of free speech and ignoring a student’s due process rights in academia is bad for America.

    1. +1000

      Same for journalism:
      Journalism isn’t bad for America (if Journalists simply reported facts).
      Being indoctrinated by a bunch of clueless, over-educated idiotic progressive bullies who engage in suppression of free speech and propaganda is bad for America.

      1. When I was in college almost 25 yrs. ago, we were already being lectured on the value of science and engineering degrees and that we, as a nation, were producing something like 30 journalism graduates for every open journalism position.

        I wish I could say that I was smart enough to know then what it was going to lead to but I don’t think any of us is, to this day, are fully aware of the effects of that slow motion train wreck.

        1. When I was in college more than 60 yrs. ago, we were able to learn interesting material, and gain useful experience from part time work that more than covered our costs. We also found that we could prosper on our own, and at graduation moved away and never looked back.
          I wish I could say that I was smart enough to know then what the future held in store, but things worked out anyway.

    2. Over educated is not the correct term. Over credentialed is. They can get worthless degrees to their hearts content, it doesn’t make them educated.

      1. The BS degree: Well, we all know what BS stands for.
        The MS degree: That stands for “More of the Same.”
        The PhD degree: Stands for “Piled Higher and Deeper.”

        Personally, I stopped at the “M” level.

  6. Should this surprise anyone? Colleges and universities have been functioning as Leftist seminaries for some time now. Students on the Right get brought up on “hate speech” charges for challenging Leftist political dogmas. Leftist professors conspire to keep moderate and Right leaning academics from getting jobs. The Left has made it impossible to have any meaningful discussions or debates on public policy at the vast majority of our institutions.

    The self-described progressive Left is totalitarian, there is just no getting around it. It was bad enough when I earned my degree in 1984. It’s only gotten worse since.

  7. Yeah, and Santorum said that universities were the enemy of Republicans.

    I’ll believe that Republicans really believe this stuff when they stop sending their kids to them. Stated values vs. revealed values and all that jazz.

    1. That is like saying you will believe Russians saw the NKVD as the enemy when they stopped doing what the party told them. Knowing that the universities hate Republicans doesn’t change the necessity and advantages of having a college degree.

      1. For me (getting ready to send my daughter to college) I see it as a kind of Pascal’s Wager.

        I am setting limits though. I’m not spending $100,000 for a French Literature or English Degree.

        1. Some people can do really well without a college degree. If your daughter is cut out to be a welder or a computer geek or an auto mechanic or a long haul truck driver, more power to her skipping college. If not, then she likely has to go to college. And yeah, no 100K “have fun reading shit you have the rest of your life to read” degrees.

          1. Yup. Professionals like nurses and paralegals can make bank.

            Minimal education.

            1. Nursing is a four year BA program for RN. If you want to go into Nurse Practitioner, Midwife, or Anesthesia it is a masters program.

              There are some associate degree programs however the good jobs are RN or more advanced.

              It is a great field because the demand is very high and you can make good money especially with advanced training but not really a minimal training job. Paralegal is a good one with less requirements.

              1. A BS RN is a four year higher ed proposition. An RN is two years tech school in most states. The vast majority of RNs are of the two year (or less ) variety.

            2. And another option is Physician Assistant, PA. That takes about 4 years. You can make very good money and a rewarding job with high demand.

          2. Which is why it is a good idea for a lot of young people to take a year or two off before deciding on college or a trade. Most are not ready for it.

            Get a real job. You can live at home and save up for stuff or take a trip somewhere.

      2. I see your “do what I say, not what I do”, and raise you “practice what you preach” and “put your money where your mouth is”.

        Claiming the shrimp is terrible, as you shovel more onto your plate, just isn’t convincing.

        1. When eating the shrimp is required to get a job, you shovel it in

    2. Stated values vs. revealed values and all that jazz.

      Except this ignores the shifting sands beneath Republicans’ (everyone’s) feet.

      Borrowing from your shrimp example below, you’re right that claiming it’s terrible while shoveling it on to your plate is counterintuitive, but if you look at the larger context (failure of public education, expanded credentialism, compulsory equality in employment standards) they’re shoveling the terrible shrimp onto their plate because all the other food is being taken off the table.

      You’re practically faulting Republicans for not racing to the bottom as fast as you think they should.

  8. Camille Paglia doesn’t think much of it, and she’s a sitting professor in the very institution.

  9. This is from the link about the study concerning liberal professors punishing conservative students.

    Now, years later, having published a book and over a dozen articles on the topic, he concludes that college campuses, “are not a hotbed of ideological discrimination. There are challenges for any minority in the academy, and that includes political minorities and racial minorities,” Woessner says, and those challenges can lead some conservative students to “lay low.” But there’s just no evidence that college professors—who do indeed trend liberal in many departments—routinely discriminate against conservative students.

    So, we admit that conservatives intentionally conceal their beliefs. And the best we can say is college professors do not “routinely discriminate against conservative students”. Can they equivocate anymore?

    Then there is this gem

    Though this broader finding is important, Woessner’s latest work has suggested some narrow correlations between ideology and grades that are worth considering. Students opposed to legalized abortion, for example, enter college with narrowly higher GPAs than pro-choice students, but lose most of that advantage over four years. Is this a sign that professors are discriminating against right-wing students? Probably not, according to the study: The authors argue that high school may play more to the strengths of conservative students, who often prefer a straightforward, right-or-wrong assessment style. Liberal students, the authors conjecture, fare better in the qualitative work prioritized in higher education, especially in the humanities.

    There is evidence of discrimination but it can’t be true because liberal students are just smarter.

    It gets better

    Over the phone, Woessner stresses that, in the end, he and his co-authors had “to engage in speculation, trying to map our possible explanation ranging from discrimination to skills to interests. [Conservative students] may be not as engaged” when it comes to the humanities, whereas “liberal students are much less happy with their math classes.”

    So the evidence shows conservative students do worse in the subjectively graded fields of the humanities. But that couldn’t possibly be because of political bias because REASONS or something.

    I know Robby isn’t bright but it would be nice if he would stop assuming his readers are as dumb and sloppy as he seems to be.

  10. Democrats who take a negative view of higher ed are most likely to cite rising costs as the issue.

    Republicans: This food is terrible!
    Democrats: Yeah, and such small portions!

  11. Poor Ricky Robby.

    Conservatives and Republicans likely think that attending Socialist Academia is bad for you and to be prepared if you do.

    That and not everyone needs to go into debt to get an education. You can get a fantastic education online and at the library. You don’t need an Undergraduate Degree to repair cars or serve in the Army.

    1. And a stint in the military can produce a debt free degree – – – – – –

    1. I always thought most big private universities are funded forever but maybe not if they still as Alumni for money.

      1. I continue to be surprised, but not surprised, at the number of iterations of simply asking people for money as a viable business model.

    2. That’s pretty good. I’ve quite enjoyed telling my college that I’ve given them quite enough money already, thank you very much.

        1. I never understood why so many people who couldn’t decide what to do went for English majors. So much reading and bullshit. If you have any aptitude for it, do a math major. It’s pretty easy if you half-ass it and it might actually be useful.

          1. “I never understood why so many people who couldn’t decide what to do went for English majors. ”

            Have you ever studied French, Russian, Chinese, Arabic or Japanese? Studying these languages at college will take up huge amounts of time. Studying the language and literature of a native language is easier and less time consuming. Native speakers of English have some knowledge of English morphophonemics and Shakespeare baked in to some degree. They are at a complete loss when it comes to Chinese resultative compounds or the Red Tower, a noted piece of classical Chinese literature.

            Math is a little abstract for many. Language and literature is about as down to earth as you can get.

            1. Math is not abstract, math is universal. It is perhaps the one universal language.

              1. Have you ever seen a one, a zero or a square root of negative one? How about a partial differential equation?

                Abstract simply means the opposite of concrete, something that can be directly perceived. It has nothing to do with universality.

    3. Here’s Marcin Jakubowski’s TED Talk where he flat out says his Ph.D. in Fusion Energy is/was “utterly useless”.

  12. Stupid people dislike smart people, what else is new?

    Not everyone that goes to college is a winner but those who look down on higher ed generally are the bottom of the barrel.

    1. So, you never got into college and with you had I take it?

    2. wearingit
      August.19.2019 at 4:12 pm
      “Stupid people dislike smart people, what else is new?”
      And smart people dislike lying asshole lefties like you; get used to it.

      “Not everyone that goes to college is a winner but those who look down on higher ed generally are the bottom of the barrel.”
      Lefty claim, typically to be taken on the ‘authority” of lying lefty.
      Fuck off.

  13. Obviously you clingers don’t care for edumacation. I can’t wait until all of you left-behinders with so-called small business jobs, and whatever other else kind of jobs you can finagle, get replaced by woke sociology majors who with their superior intelligence will know how to put you in your place.

    1. Good Rev impression, but you could do better. Add something about how we all belong to the society of smelly racist inbred wrongthinkers who shop at Walmart

    2. Don’t forget his inventory of Hillsdale, Grove City, etc as right wing colleges that teach creationism instead of science or some other similar routine.

  14. It’s another example of “lumpitis” — same as with government in general, K-12 schools, and big conglomerates in the business world. Cable TV is an excellent well-known example in the business world; Netflix is the same model but so much cheaper that few complain. Sometimes huge is fine — Amazon, for example, is almost entirely a huge store, with only their house brand (“Basic”, I think) diverging slightly, and their store credit card.

    If parents and students had to actually pay for all this things, itemized and separated, instead of one lump sum, the social pseudo sciences, the grievance majors, the remedial indoctrination courses would all disappear.

    If people could pay for just the government they wanted, a lot of useless stuff would disappear.

    College, as it is now, is a waste. Yes, STEM is still worth something, but the more they lard them up with remedial indoctrination, the less time students will have for the real courses, and that devalues degrees from those colleges. They will eventually reap what they sow.

    1. Lots of knowledge is still worth something. The question is whether spending four years of your life in college is the best way to obtain that. And I think in most cases, even in stem, it is not.

      1. Yeah, academia has it’s place. It wouldn’t be good if there were no universities. We should have people studying literature and history and the humanities and social sciences. But every bored 19 year old looking for a major shouldn’t be told to just study whatever they want. If you aren’t sure what you want to do with your life, at least learn something useful.

        1. I was a liberal arts major in college. I love the liberal arts. But, I see it more as a lifetime project. I have learned more since college than I ever did in it. For that reason I wish I had majored in something more technical. I would still have had my love of the liberal arts. I just would have learned something in college I wouldn’t have learned on my own.

          1. Check out the 1% over here.

            I went to the school of Hard Knocks and have a PhD in the streets.

          2. Me too. And now I’m an engineer. Go figure. Probably would have been easier to get where I am if I had studied engineering. But I have a lot of knowledge and skills that the guys out of engineering school just don’t have (and they know lots of things I don’t) so I’m pretty good with my choices. I think it helped me that I was already a very practical person who knew how to do things before college. I didn’t expect that college would give me everything I needed to know for a career and I didn’t need it to.

  15. I’d argue that half the issue is that colleges are still running off the old 16/1700s idea that college should be about making a “well-rounded gentleman”, where the student needs to know all the things. I’d argue with the amount of tech that’s grown, college degrees should only focus on what’s relevant, ie, learn the classics if you’re an English Major, but if you’re a Physics major, only learn things that are relevant to your course of study. You don’t need history, english, and a foreign language for that shit. Boil down the degree into two years instead of four, and cut the cost.

    Obviously not going to happen as long as Uncle Sam is footing the bill (and the credit for any loans), but a man can dream.

    1. As I said above, making the “well rounded gentleman” used to be the purpose of college (after it’s primary purpose stopped being to study theology). We need a new type of institution that isn’t still based on the model that was there to educate the upper classes and future academics.

      1. I’m going to go slightly heretical here and say that there’s nothing wrong with that type of education for those who want it. I don’t see a problem with a line of study that would make you a “Man of Letters” who’s knowledgeable on a wide-ranging set of subjects from history to philosophy to music and with the ability to speak and write in complete sentences using The Queen’s English. But I don’t see a lot of evidence that the colleges are churning those out in any number.

        1. In fact they do the exact opposite: convince people only one subject is relevant.

        2. I definitely agree that there isn’t anything wrong with that kind of education. That’s pretty much the kind of education I got, and I’m happy with how it all turned out. Just don’t expect other people to pay for it involuntarily. And it shouldn’t be the model for all higher education

          1. Your Peter and Christopher Hitchens and Douglas Murrays are vanishingly rare. And they’re mainly British anyways…

        3. Same as Zeb, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it if you want to pay the extra cash, but it’s just not necessary, nor should we be paying as much as we do.

    2. I’d argue that half the issue is that colleges are still running off the old 16/1700s idea that college should be about making a “well-rounded gentleman”,

      They don’t even do that particularly well.

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    1. In a nutshell why college is increasingly irrelevant.

  17. college is for sports. go Wildcats!

    1. I thought it was for panty raids on the Chi Omegas!

      1. lol. of course beer & boobs. i miss chi-o’s

      1. Kansas State, but the joke is all teams are the Wildcats

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XItRcMuraCI

  18. there’s little evidence that progressive professors tend to be biased against non-progressive students.

    This is a pathetically bad study.

    “Is this a sign that professors are discriminating against right-wing students? Probably not, according to the study: The authors argue that high school may play more to the strengths of conservative students, who often prefer a straightforward, right-or-wrong assessment style. Liberal students, the authors conjecture, fare better in the qualitative work prioritized in higher education, especially in the humanities.”

    To summarize the authors used their own unsupported stereotypes to explain differences and conclude everything is fine. By it fit Soave’s need so a garbage “study” becomes fact.

  19. Academic bias is not bad? WTF?

    In more objective fields, e.g. “hard” (as in, most students can’t pass these classes) sciences, even objective methods are skewed by bias in the selection of topics for instruction and research.

    In less objective fields, any pretense has been abandoned in favor of overt activism. Sociology should be the STUDY of human systems, not the promotion of certain political agenda.

    1. The corruption of the social sciences really bugs me. There is a lot of really interesting and important stuff to be studied in those fields. But it seems to have been almost entirely taken over by a particular ideology.

  20. “there’s little evidence that progressive professors tend to be biased against non-progressive students”

    Or, you know, the really obvious one that all of us who recently went through college know; that you can’t get a good grade when you violate dogma and you won’t get very far in a class constantly fighting everything they teach you.

    I took a Sociology class once and tried to put up with it for as a long as possible. After I had enough of the repeated assaults on my identity, I stopped going. I wasn’t going to argue every single fucking day that I’m not evil for being born rich or looking white by their standards of whiteness. Instead of dropping the class, I stayed in it and protest failed because students failing looks bad on part of the professor. Needless to say, she was an adjunct and I didn’t see her back at the school after that point. I talked to my counselor (who is also the dept. chair for economics) and she talked about how students regularly complained to her about those types of classes, especially African American history related ones.

    At one point when GamerGate was still a thing (regrettably), we actually watched an Anita Sarkeesian video in class. Of course, as the most avid loser in the class, I thoroughly debunked everything she offered as evidence of sexism in gaming. She gave countless bullshit examples, like being able to maim women in F3/NV. You can literally explode anyone in that game and there’s even a perk that comically exploits this (Bloody Mess). She also showed an absurd example of her playing Hitman and murdering strippers. You literally see her score decrease in the video because it’s a fucking stealth game and she was making a mess, but apparently that’s sexist because it’s technically something you can do. Needless to say, that didn’t go over well at all and that was the point I stopped going to that class.

    Also, that’s where I had the joy of experiencing Tim Wise for the first time. Fuck that spineless cuck.

    1. we actually watched an Anita Sarkeesian video

      LOL

      1. inorite? She’s a literal scam artist who got hundreds of thousands of whiteknightbux to buy video games she didn’t even play. She even stole footage from other YT channels when the scam was up and she had to put something out for content.

      2. One wonders if he lost SAN points.

    2. My only C in college was a traditions 103 course.taught by an activist. I got a 97% test average, graded by T.A.s, but often butted heads during class w the prof. Thinking I got an A I was shocked at the C. I emailed a T.A. and was told the professor changed the grading scheme half way through the course to make class participation 30% of the final grade for which I got almost no credit. T.A. had already complained to the department head. Professor went on sabbatical the next semester and remained there for 2 years.

      1. I never encountered anything that bad, but I was always cautious about what I said. In many learning environments, I felt like I was walking through a minefield. The funniest part of it is that as a relatively conservative person, I had no qualms with taking a reading course about lgbt+ issues in Japan, but you would never see those sorts of people in a business or econ class. I think it says volumes about who is actually tolerant and who is close minded.

  21. Popular contempt for colleges and universities, contempt for judges and bureaucrats, contempt for corporate media, contempt for Congress; things really are getting better.

  22. “there’s little evidence that progressive professors tend to be biased against non-progressive students.”

    Hyperlink in the sentence links to an article about a study that failed to find evidence of professors deliberately giving conservative students bad grades. Which… is hardly the only possible way that bias could manifest.

    1. “there is little evidence” means “we dismiss the evidence that exists”

      1. Or:
        “We really didn’t look too hard”.

    2. “Which… is hardly the only possible way that bias could manifest.”

      Isn’t academia carrying on and on these days about “implicit bias?”

  23. Hilariously, the political extremes continue to be inept at logical analysis of an issue.

    It really is pretty simple. It is absolutely necessary for certain career paths. If you are on one of those paths, it is fine. If your child comes to you and presents that they want to major in some BS with no career path, it’s on you to tell them they are wasting their time, and your money on a degree that will fastrack them to being a barista.

    The far right has this anti-intellectual garbage movement that college isn’t necessary (and to their credit, at least somewhat, there are some good jobs where you don’t need it). “If you go to college they will try and indoctrinate you ” and they list the extreme uber liberal media examples as what college is.

    The far left pushes it as absolutely necessary and love to especially break down voters into non-college educated vs educated so they can claim intellectual superiority, despite some majors being exercises in woke-ness, money pit wastes of 4 years.

    Of course the answer lies between the two retard enclaves. There are tons of colleges where you get a great experience, learn useful things, and can use it as a foundation for further learning. Especially reasonably priced state colleges (go PSU!). And you go, hear opinions from a variety of people that aren’t from your hometown, and take what you want away from it. Parents who have children that fall for some BS a liberal professor sells them or decides to major in gender studies really only have themselves to blame for their shitty parenting and inability to raise a competent child.

  24. Ignorance is strength? Where else have I heard that?

    1. From people who spent four years learning stuff that wasn’t true.

    2. Esmeralda Overdrive
      August.19.2019 at 7:09 pm
      “Ignorance is strength? Where else have I heard that?”

      Being that you’re a fucking lefty ignoramus, you’ve heard it often, but more importantly, act as if it’s true.
      Lefties are nothing if not ignorant.

      1. What is it that scares you, Sevo?

        The sad fact is that, in the Marketplace of Ideas, you’re losing. That’s all. No conspiracies needed at all. But the prospect of looking at what you’re selling and how you’re selling and wonder “How can I make my product better” or “How can I sell it better” frightens you so badly that you’re willing – against even your own alleged principles – to burn the marketplace down. Even if you’re still inside. The very prospect that your knowledge is either inaccurate or incomplete shakes you to the core. Why?

        1. Esmeralda Overdrive
          August.19.2019 at 10:18 pm
          “What is it that scares you, Sevo?”
          Nothing like pathetic pieces of shit like you, you pathetic piece of shit.
          —————————-
          “The sad fact is that, in the Marketplace of Ideas, you’re losing. That’s all.”
          Lefty shitbags love to make claims absent evidence, lefty shitbag.
          ——————————-
          “No conspiracies needed at all. But the prospect of looking at what you’re selling and how you’re selling and wonder “How can I make my product better” or “How can I sell it better” frightens you so badly that you’re willing – against even your own alleged principles – to burn the marketplace down. Even if you’re still inside. The very prospect that your knowledge is either inaccurate or incomplete shakes you to the core. Why?”
          Sorry, lefty fuckface, that idiotic word salad isn’t worth shit, and I doubt even you have any idea what it means. I run a company which its very successful in selling high-end products world-wide.
          Stuff it up your ass; I’m sure you’re ‘successful in mixing coffee drinks.
          Oh, and ‘conspiracies’? You should stop listening to the voices in your head.

  25. One of the best profs I had in college was what you would call a radical feminist. She taught a certain branch of literature and a few other things.

    Thing is she was an actual academic. There was no preachy bullshit. You had to read the reading list. You had to think and write with logic and analysis. She had a nice way of letting you know when you were bullshitting.

    Years later I called her because I wanted to make a donation to the small department. She “that is nice. What I really want is for you to write a letter about your experiences here and how it helped you in your career so I can read it to my class”

    10 years later she gives me a writing assignment. And you can’t say no to her. Ha

    Guess they don’t make ‘em like that anymore.

  26. Let me know when Republicans stop electing college educated representatives.

    1. “Let me know when Republicans stop electing college educated representatives.”

      Why are you wasting bandwidth with your pathetic sophistry?
      Fuck off and die.

      1. “Why are you wasting bandwidth with your pathetic sophistry?”

        To point out what I thought was an obvious case of cognitive dissonance. What about you?

        1. “To point out what I thought was an obvious case of cognitive dissonance.”
          So no reason at all.
          Fuck off.

                1. Fuck off; it’s all you have to offer.

                    1. Go die in a fire, shitfucker.

                    2. Pretentious jackass shows off his high school education and impresses nobody. Fuck off, you inane douche.

  27. “Roughly eight-in-ten Republicans (79%) say professors bringing their political and social views into the classroom is a major reason why the higher education system is headed in the wrong direction (only 17% of Democrats say the same). And three-quarters of Republicans (vs. 31% of Democrats) point to too much concern about protecting students from views they might find offensive as a major reason for their views. In addition, Republicans are more likely than Democrats to say students not getting the skills they need to succeed in the workplace is a major reason why the higher education system is headed in the wrong direction (73% vs. 56%).”
    Bigoted asshole is gonna have a hard time with that! If that’s limited to Rs (and not independents), it says the Rs have things pretty sell doped-out and the Ds are as cluically-challenged as ever. As in:
    “Democrats who take a negative view of higher ed are most likely to cite rising costs as the issue.”
    And, the cause of that rise (‘FREE SHIT!’) never occurs to them.

    1. “Republicans are more likely than Democrats to say students not getting the skills they need to succeed in the workplace is a major reason why the higher education system is headed in the wrong direction (73% vs. 56%).”

      Why should it be incumbent on colleges to provide the work place with skilled workers? If a work place needs to workers with certain skills, what’s to stop them from taking matters in hand and doing the necessary educating themselves? They don’t need to require students to study secondary subjects, grant degrees, field sports teams or any of that. Just private business privately educating their workforce and saving the whole society a raft of higher education headaches.

      1. OK, folks, you get to vote: Bullshit? Idiocy? Sophistry?:

        “Why should it be incumbent on colleges to provide the work place with skilled workers? If a work place needs to workers with certain skills, what’s to stop them from taking matters in hand and doing the necessary educating themselves?”
        Now you might think this is typical lefty whining about ‘evil business’, and it could be, but to ignore the fact that it is not the *businesses* who hope the kids learn enough to get a job, but the parents, moves it over into pure idiocy.
        Hint, you pathetic piece of shit: Companies will find people who’ve learned something somehow.

        “They don’t need to require students to study secondary subjects, grant degrees, field sports teams or any of that. Just private business privately educating their workforce and saving the whole society a raft of higher education headaches.”
        And, further idiocy, the parents are paying for the kids to learn something, and then the stock-holders of the company should also pay for what the parents didn’t get.
        Now I hold that this sort of inanity does not come easily; it takes YEARS of practice to post this sort of drivel.
        Fuck off, trueman; you’re an embarrassment to the human race.

        1. ” Companies will find people who’ve learned something somehow.”

          I don’t understand Republican hostility to on the job learning. If schools can teach students the necessary skills, why not the companies who require them in the first place? \

          1. “I don’t understand Republican hostility to on the job learning.”

            When you couch the question in idiotic terms based on a strawman, it’s really hard to find an answer!
            I could explain it to you, but given that your are a pathetically ignorant PoS, I’d rather leave you that way. You deserve it.

            1. If schools can teach students the necessary skills, why not the companies who require them in the first place? What is it about job skills that they can be acquired in college but not on the job?

              1. OK, folks, your vote. Anyone see how this pile of bullshit responds to the comment?

                “If schools can teach students the necessary skills, why not the companies who require them in the first place? What is it about job skills that they can be acquired in college but not on the job?”

                I thought not.
                Fuck off, trueman.

                1. Just answer my question. I will the fuck off then.

                  1. “Just answer my question. I will the fuck off then.”

                    Your “question” is nothing of the sort; it’s an attempt at misdirection. It deserves this ‘answer’:
                    Fuck off, you pathetic piece of shit.
                    (I have no doubt that your stupidity is such that you are surprised by that; stupid is as stupid does)

                    1. This ankle biter is an intellectual coward.

                    2. Fuck off and die, shithead mtrueman.

  28. It seems the Pew questions are about colleges and universities *in general.* In my quick glance at the link, I didn’t see questions broken down into categories like “what is your view of higher education in the hard sciences” or “what is your view of higher education in the social sciences” or “do you think STEM education is necessary? Do you think it should include instruction at a residential college?”

    So Democratic respondents get to give virtue-signalling answers in favor of “higher education” (if some education is good, a lot of education is better!), letting innocence-by-association and political prejudice do the rest.

    1. Also, I don’t think this is what most people mean by the hard sciences:

      https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674055209

    2. “…In my quick glance at the link, I didn’t see questions broken down into categories like “what is your view of higher education in the hard sciences” or “what is your view of higher education in the social sciences” or “do you think STEM education is necessary? Do you think it should include instruction at a residential college?””

      Shame on me, I didn’t do that, and by now, it should be obvious that ‘the poll’ is likely to be a ‘push-poll’ in some regard or other:
      I wouldn’t be surprised with “Are you not a D, and why do you hate college?”

      1. This might not be a party-style push-poll, it simply seems to ask more simplistic questions than a more…scientific (if I may use the term) survey would have used.

        Or it’s just designed to measure the “political mood,” not looking for constructive answers about what the public thinks about a complex issue.

        1. OK, I see questions about the usefulness of college degrees for getting better jobs, but it’s still not broken down based on whether you’re talking about the study of engineering or underwater basketweaving.

        2. “This might not be a party-style push-poll, it simply seems to ask more simplistic questions than a more…scientific (if I may use the term) survey would have used.”

          Could well be, but it’s certainly being used to push ‘party/identity values’.
          The question then becomes:
          1) Stupidity?
          2) Cupidity?

  29. 59% of Republicans Now Think College Is Bad for America
    Well duh………. Republicans aren’t communist so why would they support a communist/socialized education system.

    Where is it in the Constitution again the “power” to educate everyone?!?! Oh yeah, Karl Marx Manifesto.

  30. I don’t thing there should be grades in college. It should be pass/fail. If the college want to give honors based on performance at the recommendation of the faculty that would be fine.

    1. “I don’t thing there should be grades in college.”

      Of course not! All the students should play T-ball and get ‘participation” awards!
      Care to tell us how folks in your business are awarded promotions or raises? I’ll bet it has to do with ‘voting’!

      1. Nope. I get paid for production.

        But enough about me.

        Grades in college.

        Grades become arbitrary and useless in higher education. The idea of a pass/fail system which occurs in some of the most respected institutions is that there is a rigid standard. It does not eliminate testing or evaluation of any kind. It means that the student must complete the work to a certain standard.

        The university should not be stuck as a jobs program nor an extension of high school or babysitting service. You stay in or drop out.

        ABCDF is kid stuff.

  31. Of course, not only can some college courses be instructive in and of themselves, but there’s also the fact that many employers weed out the non-college-educated, since a narrow employment skills test might be considered racist or something. Not to mention that higher education has become so common and comparatively easy that there’s a strike against someone who doesn’t bother to get a college degree. And the networking of people whose degrees help them get hired going on to make their own hiring decisions, etc.

    1. “Of course, not only can some college courses be instructive in and of themselves, but there’s also the fact that many employers weed out the non-college-educated, since a narrow employment skills test might be considered racist or something.”
      Sort of like the ‘equal pay’ bullshit, relying on a documented standard in the file and ignoring any subjective decision makes the legal department happy.

      “Not to mention that higher education has become so common and comparatively easy that there’s a strike against someone who doesn’t bother to get a college degree. And the networking of people whose degrees help them get hired going on to make their own hiring decisions, etc.”
      Certainly, if you want a career with Ernst & Young, you are going to need a MBA. “Salary men” (in the Japanese vernacular) will go nowhere without it.
      But those are ‘legacy’ careers; the edge never has required degrees, just performance.
      Without going into too much detail, the ‘tradesman’ who lives down the street owns quite a bit of SF property, sent his kid to a private school (wasting the money), and if he doesn’t have a large 6-figure income, is (like Buffett) doing clever work with his accountant.
      Degrees are required for specific jobs, NOT for making money.

    2. ” there’s a strike against someone who doesn’t bother to get a college degree.”

      Surely not among Republicans, who have seen through this whole college education fraud. Why would spending 4 years not being subjected to communist indoctrination be seen as a disadvantage?

      1. I won’t abuse you like poor sevo does, but you *do* sound silly.

        As I alluded to above, I’d love to see the results of a poll with more precisely-framed questions, like “is STEM education important?” and “is it a good thing for universities to teach STEM subjects?”

        And even in the subjects where a college degree is not *inherently* necessary, the signalling and networking benefits may for certain careers be important enough to ignore the leftist claptrap.

        So please ease up on the straw men.

        1. …now, in the field of politics *as such,* university-based intellectuals, and student “activists,” are IMHO having something of a negative effect.

          They wouldn’t be getting these geysers of federal $$$ except through the innocence-by-association effect of being on the same physical premises as scientific laboratories, medical students learning anatomy, etc.

          Even the scientists, bless their hearts, when they wander outside their own field, are not necessarily good guides to politics. Nor are they 100% impartial if education funding is the political issue under discussion.

          1. “Even the scientists, bless their hearts, when they wander outside their own field, are not necessarily good guides to politics.”

            Who is? I heard some scientists don’t even vote Republican!

        2. “I won’t abuse you like poor sevo does, but you *do* sound silly.”
          Why not? That lying piece of shit deserves every bit of abuse s/he gets.

          1. Oh, and I’m not “poor” sevo; those who accept crap like trueman posts are “poor”, eddy.

            1. I mean the energy it takes to be mad at people on the Internet – even if we assume they’re all silly or foolish.

              There are a couple of folks it’s hard *not* to be mad at. But that’s not because of their substantive positions but because of their attitude to everyone else.

              Then there are ones who are often wrong and don’t seem to read carefully the stuff they’re responding to. I can’t read their minds and be certain they’re being malicious – why not just assume they’re being careless and react accordingly?

              1. With you there.

                For some folks it is a game.

                Do not understand it but the person gets something out of it. Try and get the other to give you another squirrel fucker post whatever this is fun.

              2. Eddy
                August.20.2019 at 2:59 am
                “I mean the energy it takes to be mad at people on the Internet – even if we assume they’re all silly or foolish.”

                Dunno how much energy you use to push keys and laugh at people, but it’s not much at this end.
                Including laughing at Es (below).

        3. “I won’t abuse you like poor sevo does, but you *do* sound silly.”

          Of course I sound silly. Most Republicans think universities are bad for America. You try to mitigate the silliness by clinging to the chance that Republicans have some warm feelings towards the STEM subjects. Maybe they do. It would make sense. The old communists loved their STEM even more than we do, and they hated subjects like sociology so much that they couldn’t bring themselves to use the name, changing it to the more acceptable ‘social studies.’ I think it’s silly that Republicans are aping the bolsheviks in their anti-intellectualism.

          My antidote to this concern over the harm caused to America by her colleges and scholars is to change job interviews. At the moment, it’s illegal for job interviewers to ask prospective employees about their pregnancy status or plans to have children, their religion and a host of other personal areas. My idea: include education background in the list of forbidden questions. Employers can probe and test on abilities and such, but your educational background is your business, not the employer’s. It will motivate young people to educate themselves in a more appropriate manner, and not to please employers. You and Sevo will find this silly too, no doubt, but I like it.

          1. I’ve got to admit, I didn’t expect you’d indulge in Red-baiting.

            Also, let’s just say (speaking only for myself here) that you haven’t fully captured the nuances of my remarks. Which is a polite way of saying that you have been straw-manning like mad.

            1. I’m not red-baiting, just pointing out that your love of STEM and distrust of humanities is nothing new, and has been shared by narrow minded dogmatists in the past. The Bolsheviks for example.

              Perhaps you believe that legitimate STEM students and professors are not harming America. Hats off to your sober and level headed approach. If you believe that non-STEM students harm America, please join me in calling upon Republicans not to vote for non-STEM representatives, senators, presidents and supreme court judges.

              1. Silly.

                “distrust of humanities”

                You mean the traditional humanities subjects (other than grievance studies)? More power to them! May they be taught by only the best instructors.

                I guess where we differ is your apparent assumption that the people teaching the humanities are all totally awesome without any censor-y, indoctrination-minded exceptions.

                1. “I guess where we differ is your apparent assumption that the people teaching the humanities are all totally awesome without any censor-y, indoctrination-minded exceptions.”

                  It’s true I don’t have any axe to grind against my college professors or even the teachers that came before. Some of these professors include non-STEM subjects like linguistics, psychology, philosophy etc. The idea that I should is bizarre to me and kind of baffling.

                  “You mean the traditional humanities subjects (other than grievance studies)? ”

                  I guess you mean feminism, queer and ethnic studies, by grievance studies. These are the obvious candidates for colleges harming America. I haven’t studied these fields directly, but I don’t think there is a single traditional humanities subject that hasn’t been influenced by them. The study of law for example. (Pet) Animal wills and rights etc are all the rage in today’s law schools. If you want to study traditional humanities in the way they’ve traditionally been studied, you’ll need a time machine.

                  1. “If you want to study traditional humanities in the way they’ve traditionally been studied, you’ll need a time machine.”

                    Or some good books and a good language teacher.

                    1. And I guess I forgot which side you’re defending – are you defending the humanities as traditionally taught, or only with the SJW additions?

                    2. “Or some good books and a good language teacher.”

                      Good old books. So maybe a time machine isn’t necessary after all. You want an antiquarian book store. I doubt you can find a humanities text book written in the last decade or so that doesn’t take your grievance studies into account, or harm America for that matter.

                    3. “And I guess I forgot which side you’re defending”

                      I just don’t get worked up over feminism, queer studies etc. Frankly I don’t see what the fuss is. I wouldn’t call myself a defender, because I don’t have a lot of familiarity with the humanities aside from languages and literature which I have always loved. Economics, anthropology and the like have always left me cold, and I am suspicious of their aping the sciences.’

                    4. I warned you; suffer fools and fools will ablige.

          2. mtrueman
            August.20.2019 at 11:11 am
            “Of course I sound silly….”

            It’s not that you ‘sound silly’; it’s that you’re a fucking bullshiter and ignoramus.

            1. His pretentious posturing is fucking insufferable, but people like him who act like they’re the most educated soul in the room are good for comic relief.

              1. Tell us more about your problems with the 16th century french romantic poetry teacher.

                1. Fuck off and die you pretentious pseudo intellectual lowbrow dicknocker.

  32. You’re out of your depth on this one, Robby, so stop it with the equivocation.

    I finally quit the higher education business because bolshevism is pervasive. Yes, I have seen students suffer discrimination for not obeying orthodoxy.

    The same goes for faculty. It’s a culture of fear where non-leftist thought is punished. When capitalism is viewed with contempt in the business school (as became my case), there is no hope.

  33. “Republicans and right-leaning independents have turned rapidly against higher ed.”

    And not before time, either.

    Look, IF you are a scholar by avocation, then by all means get a degree in whatever humanities subject is your passion and go to it. You may have an uphill fight against the entrenched Progressive Left idiocy that now dominates the humanities in far too many colleges, but having a degree will be worth your while.

    If you AREN’T a scholar by avocation, then getting a degree in history, or english literature, or what-have-you is a colossal waste of time and money. With some exceptions, a humanities degree qualifies you to study for the next higher degree. Period.

    Colleges are offering far too many degrees that have no value, and which are not academic subjects by nature.

    Remember the Shmoo from the early Occupy protests who lamented that he was $30,000 in debt for a Masters Degree in Puppetry? Society had taught him that anything you want to do, first you need to get a college degree. It never occurred to him that the way to become a puppeteer was to go to Los Angeles and get a job fetching coffee for Jim Henson Studios. And the college he gave all that money committed fraud. A MASTERS DEGREE in puppetry? You have to wonder if any of his instructors had even a twinge of conscience.

    My Father was a Professor. But my Father was a scholar by avocation. He loved to research. He loved to teach. He belonged on a campus, somewhere.

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  35. I do not think “professors bringer their political and social views into the classroom” is a significant issue, or even necessarily a bad thing:

    Shorter Fruitsushi: “Propaganda good”

  36. The result in percentage value is maybe due to the lack of knowledge in choosing the right college or course. There are many websites out there which provide a good piece of information on courses, colleges and universities based on the rankings, placements and student reviews. It is actually good to go for such websites rather than making a decision on higher education on their own.

  37. It all boils down to this for me.

    The least educated people I’ve ever met tended to be college graduates. Morons at least KNOW they’re not educated in a lot of things and don’t opine on shit they know little about.

  38. And while the ideological composition of academia is heavily tilted toward progressivism, there’s little evidence that progressive professors tend to be biased against non-progressive students.

    How does Reason support the statement above? With an article about a study that found that conservative students are not discriminated when it comes to grading.

    Duh. Of course they aren’t. Now, when it comes to which speakers they want to have on campus? The amount of fees they are charged? Their ability to speak up and be heard in the classroom? Their ability to form student groups free from harassment? Ability to distribute newspapers and other printed and digital material on campus?

    Reason, once again proving that its become a shallow rag that is only useful due to a handful of commenters.

    1. Exams at least used to be graded blindly.

      Hence the joke where a student insults the professor while turning in his exam, and the professor gets mad.

      Student says, “do you know who I am?”

      Prof says, “no.”

      “Thank goodness,” says the student, as he leaves his exam in the middle of the pile and gets out of there.

    2. Shit, I butted heads with a ton of my teachers in high school AND college because they would spout of commie nonsense and I didn’t stand for it.

      I call total bullshit that there is no bias. One of those teachers in fact DID fuck me on one of my finals too, and I wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised if it was because of a personal dislike of me because of the few times politics came up. I didn’t care enough to make a stink about it because my overall grade for that class was still okay, and I generally got straight As anyway… But how many times does that sort of thing happen to people? Knocking their GPA down by .1 or .2 or more? I’d bet a lot.

  39. The percentage of Republicans who see value in higher education has collapsed in recent years, from 53 percent in 2012 to just 23 percent in 2019.

    Might have something to do with colleges being cesspools of Marxism.

  40. College is too expensive for you normals who can’t get a decent SAT score. Acknowledged.

    But if a political party is telling you that being educated is bad for you, you might want to run far, far away from that political party. Just historically speaking.

    Why don’t they want you educated?

    1. One can be ‘educated’ but not intelligent. Case in point, Tony.

      1. True, but if one is not educated, one is more likely to think one is intelligent than to actually be intelligent. Case in point, the president.

        1. Didn’t he graduate from Penn? Wouldn’t that make him “educated” in your eyes?

    2. Tony
      August.20.2019 at 1:14 pm
      “College is too expensive for you normals who can’t get a decent SAT score. Acknowledged.”

      And whatever degree you got was worthless to whomever paid for it; stupid is as stupid does, and you *are* the poster-boy for it.
      Fuck off, shitbag.

      1. My degree was useful to the extent that I get paid a lot of money to delegate things while my high-school-educated-only friend has to sit on a phone talking to assholes all day. And my majors were in liberal arts fields. Who’s the fucking idiot again?

        1. You are. In addition to being a retarded faggot who thinks his degree from bumblefuck community college is some mark of superior intellect.

    3. HAHAHAHA oh look Hicksville OK’s smartest inbred ever to finish a picture book is posturing as the “educated” one. What a fucking tool you are, you rube.

      1. I didn’t mean to insult you.

        Why don’t Republicans want you educated? Or are you already too far gone to assess that question?

        1. And you attended what school exactly, rube? Wherever it was I’m sure they’re proud of teaching a backwoods Okie twit like you how to color inside the lines.

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  42. The only reason these snowflakes are melting is because they’re not being coddled and being told exactly what they are. It also shows here in the comment section from Koch owned (un)Reason magazine–anti-intellectualism is alive and well.

    It’s how Trump was able to get into office.

  43. Interesting that the percentage “against higher ed” are about the same as the number of stupid people on the Bell curve.

    1. I don’t think it has anything to do with people being against ACTUAL higher education… More to do with people against communist indoctrination and/or handing out degrees for nonsense subjects that shouldn’t even exist.

      I dare you to find me somebody who is against somebody becoming a doctor, aerospace engineer, architect, etc. You won’t find them. People who think Gender Studies degrees are useless… You’ll find a lot of those, and for good reason.

  44. the intellectual vacuity in the social science majors right now is stunning….it is not just the case that the faculties are far Left or Marxists…that has been the case for a long time…but now the topics chosen as classes are absurd…you can take an undergraduate course of study and barely touch locke, mill, hume, certainly not someone like Burke….overall historical understanding of political, military, constitutional, etc (except for disaffected groups) development in the West or the US has been nearly eliminated even though it is those factors which created the world these idiot professors live in…the course load is largely reiterations of the same classes on power, social movements, “marginal” groups, environmentalism, international environmentalism, race and environmentalism, race and gender and environmentalism, etc, etc…you could major in poli sci at a top 20 school get a 3.85gpa because these classes are so easy get into a law school and never even meet the last 600 years of English history and impact on US law, understand the impact of the Military Revolution on western history, understand the rise of city states, or have the any notion of the 50 years leading to WW1 expect maybe the potential peace impact of women, in your undergrad course load….these departments are just blobs of inherent, pop issue classes and intellectually discordant offerings where any cohenert historical, critical thinking has been removed

    1. and don’t forget classes on the forced immigrant experience….

    2. It’s sad. I never ended up doing the full university degree thing because I just went into business for myself… But I am FAR more educated about almost EVERY subject than anybody I ever meet with a uni degree.

      Obviously hard science majors know more about their field than I do… Because those are actually still fairly rigorous… But I’ve actually shit all over history majors on history! Like WTF! I schooled an economics major on a lot of economic concepts too. They at least seemed interested, but they’d never even HEARD about a lot of the concepts Austrians talk about.

      And when you talk about history/politics/economics with people who didn’t study those things they’re even more ignorant, which you wouldn’t think they would be since most degrees require a lot of the basic foundational stuff to be studied… It’s insane.

  45. Political affiliation has nothing to do with whether college is good anymore. Look at Harvard Law School. The actual administration got rid of a law professor because he planned to defend Harvey Weinstein in court. F—ing Harvard LAW School is teaching that no one has a right to a fair trial any longer. Doesn’t matter that it’s Weinstein who was accused. It could even be Jeffrey Dahmer: anyone accused of a crime has a right to a fair trial. For Harvard to reject something so basic means that Harvard is a total waste of time and money.
    If I pay big bucks to learn about law, I expect to be taught about law, which includes learning why things like a right to legal representation, to mount a defence against accusations, and the right to not be tried and found guilty in the press—no need for a trial—are IMPORTANT.

    1. I think that wasn’t the law school but an undergrad residence hall where the professor was the hall monitor, or whatever you call the live-in faculty.

  46. Seriously, conservatives and libertarians REALLY need to try to get into higher ed more in the future… The takeover of education is largely responsible for why our politics has gone so hard left in recent years.

    1. They have to believe in the veracity of facts though.

      1. And they do… The left are the ones that believe somebody with a dick can be a woman, or that men and women have equal skills/traits, the words are literally physical violence, on and on and on. The left of 2019 are MORE religious zealots than the right is, their religion is just a lot lamer than even Christianity at this point!

        If you’re talking about climate hysteria… I believe the climate is changing… Carbon is probably adding to it to some degree… What degree that is is not really known with any degree of accuracy. Everybody that says it is is just spewing propaganda.

  47. Lots of knowledge is still worth something. The question is whether spending four years of your life in college is the best way to obtain that. And I think in most cases, even in stem, it is not.

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  49. My mom was an English professor at a state university. She put in a lot of hours in her research and teaching and truly loved her work, but her biggest complaint was the students who did not know how to write a full sentence or use proper grammar, things they should have learned by middle school or high school at the very least. So college is now necessary because education in general has been dumbed down to the point that a bachelors degree is the equivalent of a high school diploma from 50 years ago. You can either try to make high school more rigorous or you can add another two or fours years onto it so kids learn basic skills to be functioning adults. You shouldn’t make kids who might be happier working in a trade or joining the military go to college because it sounds good.

    1. “but her biggest complaint was the students who did not know how to write a full sentence or use proper grammar, things they should have learned by middle school or high school at the very least.”

      Maybe the students lacked an edit button.

  50. Republicans and right leaning independents are stupid.

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