At Last, Saving America from Construction Workers Isn't Something We're Just Talking About

Cops in Panama Beach, Fla, say nay to Aztlan-symp naysayers (like me) who think that it is neither appropriate nor possible to arrest all illegal workers in the U.S. of A:

The sheriff's department has developed a remarkably effective — and controversial — way of catching illegal immigrants: Deputies in patrol cars pull up to a construction site in force, and watch and see who runs.

Those who take off are chased down and arrested on charges such as trespassing, for cutting through someone else's property, or loitering, for hiding out in someone's yard, or reckless driving, for speeding off in a car.

U.S. immigration authorities are then given the names of those believed to be in this country illegally.

"It's not wrong for them to run, but it's not wrong for us to chase them either," said Sheriff Frank McKeithen......

Illegal immigrants are leaving town. And builders are worried the crackdown will deprive them of the labor they need to take part in a building boom in which Panama City's Beach cheap spring-break motels are being torn down and replaced with high-rise condos.

[Link via the incredibly valuable Rational Review .]

Comments

Fluffy | June 28, 2007, 7:19pm | #

Isn't this one of those strategies that only can work until someone writes an article about it?

After all, the contractor can just tell his guys, "If the cops come, don't run. We won't let them on to the property."

If some deputy wants to check the immigration status of someone working on my house, he better show me a warrant before he so much as pulls into the driveway.

NoStar | June 28, 2007, 7:30pm | #

The contractors should tell their people to stay put alright, but they should also hire a half dozen "runners" with both speed and impeccable papers.

A few wasted morning chasing legals will lessen their fondness for this tactic. As the Man said, "It's not wrong for them to run."

wayne | June 28, 2007, 7:38pm | #

What the cops should do, in addition to chasing down the runners, is to audit the books of the contractors to see if they are paying social security taxes and workmen's compensation on their "runners".

Send a few of those greedy fucks to jail and I suspect that the rest would have a lessened appetite for the fleet of foot.

TLB | June 28, 2007, 7:42pm | #

Now (for the grown-ups):

1. No one of ant stature is calling for the arrest of all IllegalAliens.

2. The fact that there are millions of people here who we could arrest and deport if necessary but who we cannot due to fears over what might happen is the definition of being invaded. We have lost control over our country. That argument holds even if you oppose MassDeportations. Who has brought us to this position?

3. A government-funded group earlier passed out booklets urging IllegalAliens not to run in such cases. Perhaps Reason could collaborate with them to pass out their booklets in Fla.

J sub D | June 28, 2007, 7:45pm | #

The Mexican American Legal Defense Fund is investigating the arrests because "the intimidation factor is of great concern,"
I can't get too worked up over illegal immigrants getting intimidated by the police. It's been my experience that most lawbreakers are intimidated by the police. The whole damned immigration system is broken and congress doesn't have the guts to fix it.

IMHO the reason the GWB reform proposal failed is because the "amnesty for those that are here and we'll stop any more illegals from coming across/working" line been used before. A lot of people subscribe to the old saw, Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ...

highnumber | June 28, 2007, 7:48pm | #

1. No one of ant stature is calling for the arrest of all IllegalAliens.

Not sure where you got that from, but I'm pretty sure they were referring to IntellectualStature, not PhysicalStature. That may be what confused you, LonelyWhacker.

libertreee | June 28, 2007, 7:50pm | #

I caught nativist Senator Jeff Sessions on C-Span Washington Journal call in this AM. The airwaves were full of good ol' boys whining that these mexicans and salvadorans were out competing them for construction jobs. I used to get $23 bucks an hour and now I gots to work for $12.

Sessions of course was tea and symphony. Not a word about the right of employers to hire cheaper labor, or the rights of consumers to cheaper housing...

wayne | June 28, 2007, 7:54pm | #

"Sessions of course was tea and symphony. Not a word about the right of employers to hire cheaper labor, or the rights of consumers to cheaper housing..."

It's "tea and sympathy", but no matter.

Employers have every right to hire cheap Salvadoran labor... in El Salvador.

Where exactly is this "cheaper housing" you speak of?

cecil | June 28, 2007, 7:57pm | #

TLB - "we have lost control over our country"?

who is your "we"?

By "we" , I can only assume you mean to say "those of us who are currently American citizens", unless you are a full blooded native American, you should be careful about making such broad pronouncements of ownership, lest you be considered a hypocrite.

Of course, there must be respect for the rule of law, but the market at work is a beautiful thing, no? The immigrant labor force is not an invading army dude.

Personally, I am much more concerned that Americans have lost control of their government.

M | June 28, 2007, 8:01pm | #

tea and simperthy
tea and sycophancy
tea and sin-for-fee

endless possibilities I think-I-see

shecky | June 28, 2007, 8:05pm | #

Where exactly is this "cheaper housing" you speak of?

Ask the Panama Beach cops.

wayne | June 28, 2007, 8:09pm | #

"Ask the Panama Beach cops."

The Panama Beach Cops did not post here.

Panama Beach Cop | June 28, 2007, 8:13pm | #

...* pant, pant * ...you don't need... * pant, pant * ...cheaper hous- * pant, pant, pant * -ing when yer earning good... * pant, pant *...

TrickyVic | June 28, 2007, 8:21pm | #

"""Those who take off are chased down and arrested on charges such as trespassing, for cutting through someone else's property, or loitering, for hiding out in someone's yard, or reckless driving, for speeding off in a car."""

I think the sheriff is going to be disappointed when he calls the feds and they will refuse to pick them up. He is filling his own jail, if any of the charges stick. The feds are rarely interested in picking up illegals from local law enforcement. I think their resources are stretched thin and they don't like locals trying to work their jurisdiction, regardless if the local PD believes they are doing the right thing.

sage | June 28, 2007, 8:26pm | #

I seem to remember reading about a setup the cops were using in New Mexico (or some other border state). They had a sign up that said "Drug Checkpoint Ahead." The cops would watch cars drive by the sign for any cars that would pull over or show some other "suspicious" behaviour. They would then stop the cars and search them.

I also seem to remember it being declared illegal by some court. Isn't this kind of case similar?

jw | June 28, 2007, 8:36pm | #

I don't know where the rest of y'all live, but in Texas (where I live) it is at least a misdemeanor to run from the police - even for lawful citizens and residents. People get charged with it quite often when the cops want to "throw the book" at someone.

MexicanGovernment | June 28, 2007, 8:44pm | #

2. The fact that there are millions of people here who we could arrest and deport if necessary but who we cannot due to fears over what might happen is the definition of being invaded. We have lost control over our country. That argument holds even if you oppose MassDeportations. Who has brought us to this position?

We did! Along with the FiveJewishBankers. You cannot StopUs now!

libertreee | June 28, 2007, 9:33pm | #

Employers have every right to hire cheap Salvadoran labor... in El Salvador.

Where exactly is this "cheaper housing" you speak of? Wayne

I am sympathetic about the symphony mistake.

So, you are saying that everyone should be guaranteed the wage they earn today for the rest of their lives? That no one should be able to compete against your wage, and employers should be forced to pay you what you want, when someone else is willing to do your job as well for less?

Instead of Salvadorans, picture black men circa WWII going around the country in buses looking for work and quite willing to undercut the good ol' boys wages to get it. They are the reason we have Davis Bacon laws today.

Better yet, remember the 19th century Chinese, who were willing to build the railroads for less than the Irish, and sometimes paid for it by being lynched or burned out.

If labor costs for any production go down, sooner rather than later, prices will go down.

Unless the FED is inflating the heck out it, which has been happening in real estate for the last 15 years.

BrownPeople | June 28, 2007, 9:50pm | #

Wee want SexWithYourBlondWomen! Wee want to MakeBabeesWithThem and TakeOverYourSouthwest! Wee are the BrownMenace, and wee are ComingForYou, SeñorLonewacko!

Anonymo the Anonymous | June 28, 2007, 10:00pm | #

The fact that there are millions of people here who we could arrest and deport if necessary but who we cannot due to fears over what might happen is the definition of being invaded.

Sure. Minus the weapons, violence, chain of command from a foreign power and intent to do something other than engage in commerce. Besides that, this is like the Blitzkrieg all over again.

White People | June 28, 2007, 10:06pm | #

BrownPeople | June 28, 2007, 9:50pm | #

Wee want SexWithYourBlondWomen! Wee want to MakeBabeesWithThem and TakeOverYourSouthwest! Wee are the BrownMenace, and wee are ComingForYou, SeñorLonewacko!

We're so sorry, Brown People, but you cannot have our blond women. You see, they have all been promised to the Black People.

thoreau | June 28, 2007, 10:14pm | #

First, I agree with MikeP.

Second, I remain firmly in control of my property, and no Mexican has entered it without my permission. However, I am not in control of the restaurant kitchens in my area, and I have been unable to stop Mexicans from entering. Fortunately, I don't own those restaurant kitchens, so it doesn't really matter that I can't control them. In fact, it's probably better that I don't control them.

bromo98 | June 28, 2007, 10:43pm | #

Panama Beach Cop wins the thread.

jb | June 28, 2007, 11:50pm | #

The Brown People can have sex with our women if I get to date the ensuing daughters. Whoo, smoking hot!

TLB | June 29, 2007, 12:06am | #

Like I said above, this comment is just for the grown-ups.

Let's say every U.S. citizen wanted all IllegalAliens to be deported. Could we do it? If we tried, what would happen? The military has ContingencyPlans for a wide range of scenarios, and I would be extremely surprised to learn that that's not among them. I would also be extremely surprised to learn that those plans don't highlight the extremely high possibility that massive violence would result, with IllegalAliens being able to hold large parts of several large cities.

Those are the kinds things that patriotic adults have to worry about, and that leaves most Reason contributors and commenters out on both counts.

Alice Bowie | June 29, 2007, 12:14am | #

TLB,

I think u can deal with the illegal Aliens and have all of them leave on their own if u simply start arresting them. We should use a WHITE ONLY police unit (using hispanics and blacks probably wouldn't work).

Violence may errupt. But when it does...more people will support the deportation of these mexicans an guatemalens. Martial law will take place...and yes, some will die. But I assure you, they will get the message...and leave.

dhex | June 29, 2007, 12:22am | #

back in the kiddie pool, the water's fine.

papa wacko, tell us the story about PrinceCharming again? and how he defeats the evil PrinceCharmento!

Anonymo the Anonymous | June 29, 2007, 12:30am | #

...and that leaves most Reason contributors and commenters out on both counts.

Then why the fuck are you posting here? Your wisdom is obviously wasted.

Hugh Akston | June 29, 2007, 12:34am | #

J sub D: It's been my experience that most lawbreakers are intimidated by the police.

It has been my experience that most people break the law a half dozen times in the course of a week; jaywalking, failing to signal when changing lanes, not wearing a bike helmet in the shower, etc.

These "lawbreakers" are indeed intimidated by the cops, because they are generally good people who don't want an arrest record and fines to set them back. Especially over something stupid like failing to fill out the proper forms when moving from place to place.

Criminals—that is, people who routinely harm others in order to get what they want—do not seem intimidated by the cops enough to keep them from jacking cars, stealing stereos, mugging, raping etc. Indeed, some of them make careers out of bouncing in and out of jail.

Eddie Murphy's Dad | June 29, 2007, 2:06am | #

If I have to beg and plead to the symphony, I don't mind cause you mean that much to ME.

JKP | June 29, 2007, 7:35am | #

Hey -- isn't there some sort of war going on? Like where these dudes from the Middle East try to sneak into this country and try to kill people and blow things up? I mean, I'm just asking, because it seems like people keep talking about it and junk.

parse | June 29, 2007, 7:50am | #

Let's say every U.S. citizen wanted all IllegalAliens to be deported. Could we do it

I asume if every U.S. citizen wanted IllegalAlients to be deported, no U.S. citizen would be hiring them. And then I don't think we'd have to worry about deporting them--they would leave on their own. They're not here to see the sights.

Tsu Dho Nihm | June 29, 2007, 8:24am | #

This tactic reminds me of a scene in Full Metal Jacket:

Door Gunner: Git some! Git some! Git some, yeah, yeah, yeah! Anyone that runs, is a VC. Anyone that stands still, is a well-disciplined VC! You guys oughta do a story about me sometime!
Private Joker: Why should we do a story about you?
Door Gunner: 'Cuz I'm so fuckin' good! I done got me 157 dead gooks killed. Plus 50 water buffalo too! Them's all confirmed!
Private Joker: Any women or children?
Door Gunner: Sometimes!
Private Joker: How can you shoot women or children?
Door Gunner: Easy! Ya just don't lead 'em so much! Ain't war hell?

jimmy smith | June 29, 2007, 8:25am | #

We can't call in the army, since they are already somewhere else, dukin' it out with some other brown people AND many in the army are brown people themselves (legal and otherwise) that there may be a little empathy shown towards their newly arrived cousins.


(slumps off to work outside since there is no cheap labor available)

Reinmoose | June 29, 2007, 8:31am | #

I'd just like to say that the police of Panama City, FL are a bunch of ass holes

MikeP | June 29, 2007, 8:55am | #

Like where these dudes from the Middle East try to sneak into this country and try to kill people and blow things up?

Indeed. So wouldn't it be nice if the masses of harmless people who are coming to the US solely to live and work could migrate legally through well known entry points on largely unrestricted visas?

You then have a pretty good idea that those who dodge the legal immigration system may well intend the US harm. Picking the terrorists out of 5,000 illegal immigrants who could enter legally absent some actual reason is a much simpler problem than picking the terrorists out of 500,000 illegal immigrants who are entering illegally simply because there is no way to do it legally.

Panama City Cops | June 29, 2007, 8:56am | #

I'd rather be an ass hole than the whole ass! Ooh! Facial Reinmoose! Total facial!

Jennifer | June 29, 2007, 8:56am | #

Whymust those goddamnedillegals steal the spacebarsfrom the computersof hardworkingAmericans?

thoreau | June 29, 2007, 9:02am | #

JenniferWins theThread.

MikeP | June 29, 2007, 9:11am | #

I agree with thoreau.

Panama Beach Cop | June 28, 2007, 8:13pm | June 29, 2007, 9:23am | #

New guy stole my badge.

Taktix® | June 29, 2007, 9:56am | #

Funny, since on this side of the state (South Florida), the tone toward illegals is far different.

Strange place this Florida is...

joe | June 29, 2007, 9:59am | #

Hey -- isn't there some sort of war going on? Like where these dudes from the Middle East try to sneak into this country and try to kill people and blow things up?

Yes, there is. Which is why it is so kind of immigration prohibitionists like yourself to make sure that there will be well-established, professional black markets in human smuggling, false documents, and underground financial transactions available throughout America.

We actually do need borders and customs agents to stop terrorists from coming into the country to blow people up. Thank you ever so much for making sure they will continue to be diverted into the essential mission of saving people like you from the horrific trauma of having to hear somebody speaking Spanish in the grocery store.

LarryA | June 29, 2007, 10:38am | #

The fact that there are millions of people here who we could arrest and deport if necessary but who we cannot due to fears over what might happen is the definition of being invaded.

Actually, it's the fear of large business shutdowns due to a lack of labor. We're already seeing shortages in produce fields, with farmers cutting back on planting because they won't be able to harvest.

I hope the Panama Beach initiative works spectacularly, and the AARP folks waiting for their condos to be completed have to live in the cheap spring-break hotels.

Then we'll have us a revolution.

wayne | June 29, 2007, 10:49am | #

Mike,

"You then have a pretty good idea that those who dodge the legal immigration system may well intend the US harm. Picking the terrorists out of 5,000 illegal immigrants who could enter legally absent some actual reason is a much simpler problem than picking the terrorists out of 500,000 illegal immigrants who are entering illegally simply because there is no way to do it legally."

You and Thoreau need to step out of your circle jerk long enough to craft a logically coherent sentence. :-)

Note the smiley face at the end. That means that I still love you and T, even though your immigration ideas are idiotic :-). [note the second smiley face].

XaabaZu | June 29, 2007, 10:51am | #

OMG, joe, you are absolutely correct. Just the other day I heard someone speaking Spanish in my grocery store, and the monocle popped out of my eye and shattered on the floor. I was astonished!

MikeP | June 29, 2007, 11:07am | #

Yeah, wayne, the sentence required a few qualifiers to be a thorough statement. Sorry.

Use joe's sentences if you like.

Davek | June 29, 2007, 12:21pm | #

Just you wait... Soon China and India will be rich enough that none of them will be interested in migrating, and then other countries will get rich, too, and they won't come process food or mow lawns, and then we'll be sorry. We will wail and gnash our teeth and cry, "Why, Oh, why didn't we get as many brown people as we could back when it was easy?"
Then we will need to build robots to do all that, and you all know how that's going to end.

Kwix | June 29, 2007, 2:21pm | #

Indeed Davek, indeed.

Skynet.

ChicagoTom | June 29, 2007, 2:49pm | #

The contractors should tell their people to stay put alright, but they should also hire a half dozen "runners" with both speed and impeccable papers.

Not that papers matter. You could get deported anyway

lunchstealer | June 29, 2007, 2:50pm | #

Then we will need to build robots to do all that, and you all know how that's going to end.

Wait - will they be hot robots? Because that chick-terminator in the last movie was smokin'!

ChicagoTom | June 29, 2007, 2:53pm | #

Better coverage here

Maria Carvajal walks the sweltering streets of Tijuana, Mexico, clutching a photo of her mentally disabled son, who she says went missing after being deported more than a month ago, despite being a U.S. citizen.

Guzman's relatives sued the Department of Homeland Security and the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department last week in federal court, claiming Guzman was a U.S. citizen and had been wrongfully deported and demanding that U.S. authorities help find him.

...

The lawsuit says Guzman was asked about his immigration status in jail and responded that he was born in California of Mexican parents.

Sometime after that, the Sheriff's Department identified him as a non-citizen, obtained his signature for voluntary removal from the United States and turned him over to Customs and Immigration Enforcement, a division of the Homeland Security Department, for deportation.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California, which helped file the lawsuit, says it has Guzman's birth certificate showing he was born at Los Angeles County-USC Medical Center.

It also says that Guzman had previously done jail time for drug possession, so he had a record that could have been cross-checked before a deportation decision was made.

The Sheriff's Department has said it followed procedures correctly.

jasno | June 29, 2007, 2:58pm | #

So when are the American Indians going to rise up, band together, and kick out the invading white people? If only they had Chief Lou Dobbs to protect them!

We entered this country illegally, didn't abide by any of their laws, raped their women, slaughtered their food, used terrorist tactics and biological warfare against them... Now THAT sounds like an invasion! This whole mexican thing seems pretty tame compared to that...

wayne | June 30, 2007, 12:14am | #

"We entered this country illegally, didn't abide by any of their laws, raped their women, slaughtered their food, used terrorist tactics and biological warfare against them... Now THAT sounds like an invasion! This whole mexican thing seems pretty tame compared to that..."

That was then. This is now. Deal with it.

TrickyVic | June 30, 2007, 8:11pm | #

Jasno, Maybe some fear the Mexicans will take over and put them on reservations.

Mr. F. Le Mur | July 3, 2007, 9:23am | #

jasno wrote:
We entered this country illegally,
The only 'law,' if you could call it that, the Amerindians had regarding their dealings with other tribes was: "Might makes right." Internally the tribes had rules which generally weren't much better.

didn't abide by any of their laws,
See above. Reading some history might help too. I highly recommend the 30-or-so volume set "Early Western Travels" (Thwaite) for starters. But you saw "Dances with Wolves" and maybe read some Ward Churchill paper - instant expert!

raped their women,
See above. Rape, kidnapping, torture, slavery, mass slaughter and human sacrifice (in C. and S. America, at least), were SOP among most Amerindian tribes when they dealt with each other. Rough lives and rough times.

slaughtered their food,
Oops, I forgot 'cannibalism'; though not SOP, it wasn't unheard of.

used terrorist tactics and biological warfare against them...
'Biological warfare.' That always cracks me up, considering that nobody knew what a disease causing germ was until about 1800.

Now THAT sounds like an invasion! This whole mexican thing seems pretty tame compared to that...
Hey, you finally got something right!